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PORTER COUNTY PLAN COMMISSION
Regular Meeting M I N U T E S The regular meeting of the Porter County Plan Commission was held on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 at 6:30 p.m. in the Porter County Administrative Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana. Those members present were Rick Burns, Tim Cole, Robert Detert, Commissioner Bob Harper, Todd Hutson, Elizabeth Marshall, Herb Read, Rita Stevenson and Kevin Breitzke, President. Staff members present were Robert W. Thompson Jr., Attorney Scott McClure, Raymond S. Joseph Jr. and Patricia S. Gibson. Mr. Detert moved to waive the reading of the November 14,2007 minutes and approve them as received in the mail. Mr. Hutson seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote. Other Business: Case 07-DP-9. Petition of Doug Wilkes, 326 S. SR 49, Valparaiso, Indiana seeking Development Review for Jake’s Feed and Garden for a proposed storage building to be located at 326 S. SR 49 in Morgan Township. (Property is zoned CM.) Mr. Breitzke stated, I am asking the Board to entertain a motion to table this case as we have not gotten back all the reviews from our consultants yet. Mr. Burns moved to table Case 07-DP-9. Mr. Cole seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote. Case 07-DP-8. Petition of Shellbourne Inc., 5800 N. Keating Ave., Chicago, Illinois for a Development Review for a conference center expansion to be located at 359 W. 200 N. in Union Township, Porter County, Indiana. (Zoned IN, Institution District.) Mr. Breitzke stated, I am also asking for the Board to entertain a motion to table this case. They are to appear before the BZA and also we have not gotten the final review from our consultants. Mr. Detert moved to table Case 07-DP-8. Mr. Hutson seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote. Case 07-FP-16. Petition of Dean Bucher, 179 Buckskin Lane, Valparaiso, Indiana seeking secondary plat approval for Pleasant Subdivision, Part Two, to be located on the East side of CR 150 E. approximately ½ mile South of CR 600 S. in Pleasant Township, Porter County, Indiana. (To contain 1 lot on 1.275 acres. Property is zoned R-1.) Randy Peterson stated, I am the land surveyor working on behalf of Mr. Bucher. As stated, this is a one-lot major subdivision. We have been through Drainage Board, primary plat and all the required DAC meetings. We know that this conforms with the ordinance, and we request your secondary approval. Mr. Read asked, what happened to the drawing which shows the swale at the North end and the direction of water flow? Mr. Peterson stated, I didn’t think that that was a secondary plat requirement to have topography on the secondary plat. Mr. Read stated, I thought we took care of that last time and we were going to make that part of the requirements. Attorney McClure stated, we will be voting on that later on tonight. Mr. Read stated, last time, as I recall, I asked for some confirmation that the underlying substrata of the bottom of that swale was sand and could take the flow of water. The entire water regime depends upon water going into that swale and being absorbed into the ground. I asked for a soil boring at that area so we know what it is and a review by our consultant as to whether or not, in their opinion, that substrata would absorb the water that is going to be going into it. I have a meaningless letter here from DLZ which doesn’t answer that. Mr. Bucher, 179 Buckskin Lane, Valparaiso, Indiana. I think that the very first time we submitted the soil reports and had comments even from the Board that it was very sandy soil and favorable for this type of drainage. I thought this was behind us and already established that the subsoil was very sandy and would be able to take the water. What we are doing that is drawn on there is adding large capacity to what already there is not a problem with currently. DLZ reviewed the plan. Mr. Read stated, what they submitted the first time I objected to. We had DLZ here. I told them that I objected to it. I didn’t get the information that I asked for. Now we have this single little one-paragraph report from DLZ saying that it appears to meet requirements despite the fact that I asked what happens to this swale. They still haven’t answered my questions and have not gone on record whether or not the swale is going to absorb the water and not run off to the neighbor to the North or any other site. Over time, this swale is going to fill up and someone is going to have to be held accountable to maintain that swale so that the water does absorb. Now you release that property owner from all requirements to maintain it. Have you got any comment on that? Mr. Bucher stated, my comment on that would be it could be set up as a drainage easement and that would be just like any other swale along a county road, I believe, which would be planted in grass and mowed. Mr. Read asked, who is going to mow it? You don’t have any restrictions here. You don’t have any requirements. It is on the property of the person who builds the house and then we have this thing that says “no covenants and restrictions”. Who is going to take care of it? Who is going to be required to take care of it? Is there any records that somebody is going to be required to take care of it? Mr. Bucher stated, if that is a requirement we will be happy to do that and put it on the final plat. Mr. Peterson asked, is that a requirement of the ordinance to do that? Mr. Read stated, it doesn’t make any difference. Our lawyer has already said that any member of this Board can ask for the full backup documents. Mr. Peterson stated, then I would ask Mr. McClure anything Mr. Read wants that was in your ordinance will be happy to do. Is that fair? Mr. Read stated, I want from DLZ a statement, and if it is necessary to have a test boring, so be it, that this particular swale will absorb the water without overflowing the banks of the swale, that DLZ give us a statement to that effect. Also, that we have some way, some legal way, of requiring the property owner to maintain whatever is necessary to make sure that the surface water goes into the subsoil. Mr. Burns stated, I thought we requested DLZ to look at this because we had some concerns and they did look at this and came back with a positive response. Mr. Breitzke stated, yes they did. Mr. Burns stated, you had some concerns at the last meeting and you requested a report from DLZ. That came back positive, so now I am kind of confused. At this time, Mr. Read read DLZ’s report. Commissioner Harper moved to approve Case 07-FP-16. Mr. Burns seconded the motion, which carried on the following roll call vote:
Burns - Yes Cole - Yes Detert - Yes New Business: At this time, Mr. Breitzke read the rules of conduct for a public hearing. Case 07-Z-14. Petition of Northwest Indiana Health System, LLC, 814 LaPorte Ave., Valparaiso, Indiana for a proposed amendment to Ordinance No. 07-5; said proposal to amend a parcel of land from R-1, Low Density Single Family, to IN, Institutional, for a proposed hospital to be located on the Northwest corner of U.S. Hwy 6 and SR 49 Bypass in Liberty Township. Bill Ferngren, 57 Vale Park Road, Suite D, Valparaiso. I am here this evening with Jonathan Nalli, the Chief Executive of Porter Hospital. Bill Cummins is here this evening, and he is the Chief Operating Officer. Tim Brust is the Broker for the transaction. Mike Duffy and Scott Civanich from the Duneland Group, as well as Greg Gore and Tom Clark. John McQuestion is our soil scientist. I would like to ask Mr. Nalli to briefly explain Porter and how we got here today. Jonathan Nalli stated, I am the CEO of Porter Health System in Porter County. Porter has been the hospital provider and health care provider in Porter County for the last 68 years, with campuses throughout Porter County, Most notably two hospitals: one in Portage and the other in Valparaiso. Porter has had high marks in achievements in all sorts of care, most notably our cardiac care, our critical care and our surgical care. As the population has increased throughout the years as well as state of the art technology requirements for our physicians to serve the needs of the community our Valparaiso campus is growing out of date and of service, thus the need to complete the construction of a new facility. Porter intends on constructing the only 225 bed minimum capacity, all private room facility that would serve Porter County, but more importantly serve the needs of Northwest Indiana. Along with that, we look at increasing the physicians throughout the community, as well as services and types of care that can extend throughout to further decrease the need to receive care in Indianapolis and in Chicago. We are seeking a favorable recommendation to the County Commissioners for the rezoning of this property because we believe that providing this level of care and being the only hospital in Porter County and in Northwest Indiana committed to constructing the minimum of 225 bed all-private room facility within Porter County. At this time, Mr. Ferngren explained that this parcel is 104± acres and is currently zoned R-1. The property surrounding in this area is zoned R-1. There is property across the street that is zoned Agricultural and High Intensity Commercial. The Courts is in this location and a mobile home park to the South, as well as R-1 property. The parcel is heavily wooded on the North portion of the site. There is a constructed pond that is spring-fed towards the center of the site. The Southern portion does have some redeeming environmental features, including the Damon Run tributaries. There is also a pipeline that separates the Northern parcel from the entire site. The pond is approximately seven (7) acres. Mr. McQuestion delineated the wetlands on the site and he comes up with somewhere around 2± acres of wetlands which needs to be confirmed by the Army Corps of Engineers. This is in the Salt Creek watershed. They have met with Christine Livingston, who is with the Save the Dunes Council. She gave them information that they are looking at using in an attempt to implement those policies on our site. The Northern area would be left alone at this time for future potential development. The project is a $210 million investment in Porter County, Liberty Township. This is a private tax benefit to the community. The jobs for this facility is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 jobs will be related to the hospital. Some of those will be a transfer from the existing Valparaiso site. There is a single access point, which aligns directly with the access point for Liberty Farms Mobile Home Park. They have communicated with John McFadden from the Indiana Department of Transportation who is in favor of this setup. He would like one access to the site and as far as possible from the off ramp of SR 49. Mr. McFadden will not commit anything in writing what the improvements are required for this area such as accel and decel, signalization and those types of things. They do anticipate the accel and decel and there will be a traffic count, which will include all the way over to the East side of SR 49. The principal structure is South of the pond. Damon Run Conservancy District provided a letter indicating that they do have a willingness and ability to serve this site. Mike Duffy from the Duneland Group. The water makes its way from Southeast to the Northwest. There is a release structure in the pond, a standpipe. They propose to detain their water on site utilizing whether it be swales or forebay structures to clean the discharge before it is released to the pond and then released out through the arm of Damon Run. Tom Clark, construction manager and consultant with Porter Hospital and Community Health. We looked at the site and came up with a similar concept to the hospital to what we actually have under construction right now. It is a similar layout. There will be a medical office building connected to the hospital from this site. The ambulance entrance and ER walk-in entrance are on this part of the site. The service site in on the rear of the site. This site is very similar to another site where this building is actually constructed. We went through all the regulatory processes and we retained all the storm water on site. Mr. Ferngren stated the construction of the facility will be around 26 to 30 months timeframe. There were some demographic studies and a lot of different locations that were investigated, and Porter selected this location. The populace of Porter County is in this area. You can get to this site much faster. We are on a State road and a divided highway with signalization already in place. U.S. Hwy 6 is being improved along the South so we have a tremendous opportunity to provide the best possible access to the site without weaving through town through a bunch of different stop lights. David Piette, 829 Tanner Dr., here tonight speaking for the Liberty Landowners Association. I feel that the rezoning of this property is contrary to the Porter County Land Use Plan. We are against this rezone. He would like to see the hospital built in Porter or Morgan Township. Concerns are overtaxing the Damon Run Conservancy, damage to the aquifer that supplies all the wells in Tanner Trace Subdivision, the effects to the wildlife in the area, increased county taxes to pay for the water and sewer line for the hospital and possible annexation in the future. Mary Sequin, 182 E. 900 N. Her concerns are increased traffic, continued effort to rezone the area by others and noise pollution. She is against this petition. Debra Pishkur, 92 E. Hwy 6. She is a concerned citizen and wants to see how this is going to affect her. She is concerned about the access. She doesn’t know if she is for or against the petition. Douglas Morthland, 79-2 E. Hwy 6. He is against this petition. Rex Richards, 168 NW Hills Dr., President and CEO of the Valparaiso Chamber of Commerce. The Chamber of Commerce is in support of the petitioner for their request in the change of zoning. They are in support of the project. First of all, Porter Hospital has been the largest employer in Valparaiso for the past 70 years. The Chamber would request that the Commission give the flexibility to Porter to build a world-class health care facility at this location. Kathy McEwan, 45 Aled Lane. Mrs. McEwan is in favor of the rezoning. Dan Trowbridge, 805 Tanner Drive. Mr. Trowbridge is in favor of this petition. He would like to know, how will the Board handle the rest of the businesses that may come in? Brad D. Cluver, 79-1 E. U.S. Hwy 6. Mr. Cluver is against the petition and agrees with the other neighbors that have spoken. Jeff McCraw, 177 E. 900 N. Mr. McCraw has mixed feelings about this proposal. He is a Liberty Township landowner. His concern is that this will change the landscape in the surrounding area, the businesses that will ultimately come into the area, taxes being raised, the destruction of farmland, the wetlands and the wildlife. He is against this rezone. Marty Dolmer, 806 N. Calumet. Mr. Dolmer asked that if you change the zoning if the hospital does not use it could it be brought back to R-1? He is concerned about 1,500 cars coming out of one exit. David Holmes, 49 Aled Lane. Mr. Holmes’ concerns are the traffic, the drainage for the area and if the hospital has to be there he requests that it be a green building and a green hospital. His concerns are also with the wildlife and what is going to happen to them. He would like reports on the water tables and where the water goes to. Don Tracy, 153 W. 850 N. Mr. Tracy is concerned how this will affect Liberty Township. He is concerned about where the hospital is going to be built because it is in the worst drainage area in this whole area. He is against this rezone. Ed Gutt, 165 E. U.S. Hwy 6. He agrees with most of what his neighbors have said. He is against this petition. He is concerned about the traffic. Mary Kreighton, 2 Crest Dr. She is concerned about the wildlife. The people here tonight are the experts in this area. They have lived here for 30 and 40 years. They are farmers who know about the soil and the wildlife. She is here to represent the wildlife. Also, anyone who is building a new building in this county needs to build a LEED building. George Kartch, 804 Tanner Dr. Mr. Kartch is against the petition for the rezone. He agrees with what has been said by his neighbors. Jim Colosino, 821 Tanner Dr. Mr. Colosino is concerned about the drainage, the wildlife and the traffic. Leah Fritz, 77 E. U.S. 6. Mrs. Fritz is concerned on where the entrance to the hospital will be. Cheryl McCraw, 177 E. 900 N. She would like to ask the Board before they even think about rezoning this if they would get INDOT’s recommendations and Christine Livingston’s. She is opposed to this petition. J.F. Schraeder, 978 N. Meridian. Mr. Schraeder is against this petition. This is an installation in a gulley. This is a bad place for a development. He is concerned about the drainage. No one has addressed the drainage. He would like to know who is going to maintain Damon Run and maintain all of this water. Delores Russell, 809 Tanner. Mrs. Russell is against this petition and she agrees with the other people who are against this. David Holmes asked, what is the hospital planning on doing with the empty hospital that is in Valparaiso. Linda Ford, 841 Opal Dr. Mrs. Ford is against the rezoning of this property because of many of the reasons that were stated tonight. Also, because the neighbors were told by the hospital that the hospital was interested in becoming a Level 2 trauma center within a short period of time. Her concerns are the helicopter for the Level 2 trauma center, one access to the hospital. She would also like to see that this hospital is a green space hospital and for the parking to go up or underground. Mr. Ferngren stated the common themes that I heard were traffic, drainage, displacement of the wildlife, what we are going to do to employ conservation types of designs into this process. Porter is intending on being a good neighbor. This site was selected because of the centrality of the location, proximity to the people the live in this community. Certainly, there will be some inconveniences associated with a project of this size. Porter recognizes that and they are committed to minimizing those types of impacts. From a traffic standpoint, we have met with John McFadden from INDOT who has indicated to us that these roads are fine for traffic. What he doesn’t have the answer to is what exactly we need to do, how wide the acceleration and deceleration lanes need to be, whether a traffic signal is actually required or not. Those types of things will be answered and will be included as part of our development plan. We have spoken with Miss Livingston, and she was very informative. The conservation types of principles associated with our development will be included. A gentleman stated that this was contrary to the Land Use and Thoroughfare Plan. That is a plan and not a cast in stone plan. What he talked about were the conservation design principles. We intend to employ those. We will use those types of concepts in this project. Concerning drainage, you are all very familiar what we must do at the time we present you with a development plan and that is engineer this site according to your Unified Development Ordinance. In regards to ambulance traffic, the noise that is associated with those, ambulances typically shut off their sirens when they approach the hospital, when they pass the last intersection that can be potentially hazardous to them with the exception of where there is an extreme emergency and a patient is absolutely critical. Currently, Porter pays $2.5 million in taxes on their existing facility. When this project is completed, this is a $210 million investment, it is expected that their taxes annually will be 3.1 million dollars generated and paid in Porter County. This will be a positive tax impact in Liberty Township. A project like this should decrease the residential tax. Damon Run Conservancy District provided a letter indicating that they have the ability to provide sewer and water service to this property. The exact route has not been discussed in detail. The District would require that Porter annex itself into the district but not require that the adjoining owners participate in annexation. This is not an annexation into Valparaiso, Chesterton or Portage. There certainly will be displacement of wildlife. The Northern 30 or 40 acres of this site is being left alone at this time. There is a lot of wildlife in that area. That area will be preserved and the wildlife creatures will have the ability to remain in that location. There was a lady who asked a question about access to her site. She is an adjoining owner to the West. Essentially, what would happen there is that it would be a shared access, much like there is now at the location. The existing structure here in Valparaiso…it has really not been the focus of Porter Hospital on what they intend to do with that structure. Their focus has been their commitment and their obligation to have a facility constructed in Porter County in the next few years. They have researched this site long and hard. Soil characteristics are building permit issues and those will all be addressed through the Indiana Department of Fire and Building Services. Your building inspector will be involved in all of those reviews. These things will be submitted to the State. Mr. Breitzke asked Mr. Ferngren to clarify “shared access”. Mr. Ferngren stated, currently there is an access that generally leads to this home. Here is the access that exists today. That accesses this parcel, which is the subject parcel and also Mrs. Fritz’s parcel. INDOT has indicated to us that this is the same type of thing that they are looking for here. Much like across the street where Liberty Farms and Mr. Pishkur have a common type of a frontage road. Mr. Breitzke stated State Highway has a limited access highway. They bought the right-of-way, but things could be worked out where you could expand that limited access, not the common drive, but the common access point. Mr. Ferngren stated the common access point is here. SR 49 is a limited access, as well as along U.S. 6. INDOT has indicated this is where the access will be. Mr. Breitzke stated, the last question that you didn’t answer is concerning the noise and issues with helicopters. Mr. Cummins stated, I am the chief operating officer at Porter. We did discuss the idea of a trauma center at both of our community meetings. When we were talking about that we were talking about potential service lines in the future. Certainly, the hospital wants to be everything it can be for the community. Right now we average about 60 helicopters a year. That is roughly about one a week. Going to a level two would probably not increase that very much. Certainly, that would be something that we would investigate as a service line potential with any of the businesses that we looked for in the future. It will be based on community need. It will be based on what the entire county wants in the way of that type of emergency service. Mike Duffy stated, drainage has always been a hot topic in Liberty Township and I think that is why the Board has taken the time to put together the UDO and the Storm Water Control Ordinance. We are heavily restricted in what we are allowed to do. We are not allowed to shed water onto our neighbors at all. We have to contain the water on the site. We have stored the 100- year storm. We also have to release it at a predetermined predeveloped rate and also have an independent consultant in addition to Kevin’s office looking at it to make sure that everybody concurs with our calculations to make sure that when we are done with this site that it is better than what it was as of today. As of right now, any time it rains this water runs uncontrolled off of this site in any direction in no limited rate. We are declaring to take that water and detain it and store it and release it at a two-year pre-developed rate. That means this site would release water no worse than a two-year rain event. We also have to store a 100-year storm, which keeps the water off the neighbor and we are going to be required to keep all of that water on site until it is released into a suitable discharge, which is reviewed by the Surveyor’s office and DLZ or whatever. Mr. Colosino asked, how do you keep the water on site? Mr. Dolmer is concerned about not having two accesses on the site. Brenda Dolmer is concerned about the wildlife. Mr. Holmes would like to know what the flight path for the helicopters is going to be. Carol Prybell, 812 N. Calumet. Mrs. Prybell is concerned whether the volunteer fire department can take care of a hospital the size of Porter Hospital. She asked if they would have to go to a fulltime taxing body. Mr. Piette is concerned about the aquifer that supplies the Tanner Trace subdivision. Mrs. Gutt asked, why don’t you put this hospital in South County? Mr. Schraeder asked, what are they going to do with the water that is coming on the site from the Valpo Moraine?. Mr. Ferngren stated, this is a location that best serves the most people in the most efficient manner. With respect to aquifers, studies will be done with soil borings on the site. Mr. Dolmer indicated that you need to have two accesses and we don’t. We are a hospital and this is where people are trying to get for that emergency and we can provide that service. Plus, we will have an appropriate ingress and egress site, all of those things that INDOT will require. Greg Gore stated, when we design hospitals we make them fire resistant. We have to do that because of the size of the facility, which is the construction type and the occupancy type of facility, too. They are fully sprinkled and they are both of non-combustible materials. We design and specify safety systems so that in the event of a fire the building will automatically go into alarm or the sprinkler will automatically go off. One of the things that we have to do with hospitals particularly is we have to design them so you don’t evacuate the hospitals. When a hospital is on fire you can’t take patients out of the hospital because they may be hooked up to life support systems, oxygen or emergency power. We have departmentalized the facility so you can actually move patients from one department to the other without having to fully evacuate the building. Once we do get the design of the building we will be meeting with the State and local fire departments to make sure that we are in compliance with their needs and their desire on what they want to see. Mr. Nalli stated, in regards to the flight path of the helicopters, we cannot answer that right now. We have to coordinate all flight paths. The FAA has to make a ruling on the approach for the helicopters. Mr. Dolmer is concerned about having at least two access points to get into this hospital. He is concerned about if an accident is right there the ambulance can’t get to the hospital if the access is blocked. There has to be two accesses. Mrs. Prybell’s concern wasn’t answered. She wanted to know if the volunteer fire department can service this hospital or does it have to go to a taxing body. Mr. Piette’s concern wasn’t addressed concerning the aquifer. Mr. Schraeder asked about the capacity of Damon Run Conservancy. Ken Korzenecki, 47 Aled. He is concerned about the single access to the hospital. Mr. Ferngren stated, with respect to the fire department, we will visit with the local fire department and the Fire Marshal to determine what is required and how we need to make sure that the safety of the people in the building is met. Concerning the aquifer, the soil testing will be done and there are certain requirements that we need to adhere to. If it appears that there could be damage to an aquifer the requirements for your State building permit will obligate us to protect those systems. There was a question regarding capacity. Yes, there is capacity with the Damon Run Conservancy District. The public hearing was then closed. Mr. Burns stated, I have to agree, it is a central location in Porter County. I do have some concerns. Was there any soil testing performed yet mainly for construction? Mr. McQuestion stated, yes, I did some preliminary soil mapping. I also have an exhibit that is in my wetlands delineation report, but I can also hand this exhibit out. This is a general soil survey report for Porter County. The soils on this property are primarily Morely and Tracy, which are suitable soils for construction. We have not started specific structural borings. Mr. Burns asked, is there going to be a traffic study done? Mr. Ferngren stated, there will be a traffic study performed. Mr. Burns asked, when will the State give you approval or a letter? Mr. Ferngren stated, that will happen before the development plan. Mr. Burns asked, is Rt. 6 slated for upgrades in that area? Mr. Ferngren stated, not that we are aware of. Mr. Burns asked, should it be? Mr. Ferngren stated, I am not sure what kind of improvements that you are looking for. Certainly the improvements with accel and decel lanes, signalization and a crossover to the South lanes and those types of improvements will be made. What the federal government does with the rest of the highway I am not sure. Mr. Burns asked, can we coordinate that, because it does go back down to two lanes once you get away from the bypass?
Mr. Burns asked, if this proposal is passed, what is going to be the screening for the neighbors? Mr. Detert stated, there are a lot of concerns and I understand those. We are not here to propose a site plan to agree with the site plan. We are here to observe whether or not we want the concept of having a hospital in this corridor. All these concerns will be answered at subsequent meetings, and I wish all of you who have those concerns would come to those meetings. The traffic concerns, the noise concerns, the drainage concerns, conservation, site access will be addressed at some future time. They do not have the answers to all of these questions. The issue before us now is strictly whether we agree with the concept of a hospital going into this corridor. Mr. Hutson asked, how many acres to the West is wooded? Mr. Ferngren stated, 40 acres. Mr. Hutson stated, you have a seven-acre lake. Mr. Ferngren stated, it is a manmade seven-acre lake or pond. Mr. Hutson stated, it looks like there is about 12-acres of wetlands delineated here. Have you been approved by IDEM yet? Mr. McQuestion stated, submitted to the regulatory agencies. I did delineate this as an intermittent drainageway. There were actually no wetlands shown to the North from the pond to the North. There is an amount of wetlands here. Mr. Hutson asked, about how many ambulances is there a day? Mr. Nalli stated, about 20 to 35 per day, based on an average visit of about 90 emergency visits and about a third of those are ambulance visits to the facility. Mr. Hutson stated, if you go to the Level Two at some point in time, can you tell me how many? Mr. Cummins stated, I would have to research that based on what increase of ambulance traffic would be based on Level Two. Mr. Nalli stated, it would also be affected by the number of incidents in the area. Mr. Hutson asked, do you have any interest in making a dry hydrant, because you do have the lake? Mr. Breitzke stated, that is something we will require. Mr. Ferngren stated, the hospital will be serviced by Damon Run Conservancy, so they will have municipal services and hydrants can be attached to that. Mr. Hutson stated, it is a great location. I just wish the site didn’t have as many natural features associated with it. I am concerned that the hospital will change the characteristic of the whole area. This will bring in other businesses associated with a hospital. Mrs. Stevenson stated, I am on the County Council. We were a part of selling the hospital. We knew this was coming because that was part of the contract with the hospital with building a new facility. We just didn’t know where. You have done your homework and you are going to be addressing and continuing to address what everything is going to look like. I just wanted you to know that I am pleased that you are finally moving ahead. I, too, am concerned over some of the issues that the public are concerned about, such as the one access road. Is this going to change the characteristics of the neighborhood? Are there 21 different types of soil, and does it really matter how many types as long as you know how to deal with the building of the hospital? Mr. McQuestion stated, that is correct. It wouldn’t surprise me if we took a quarter section up there and we had 40 or 50 different soil types. Mrs. Stevenson stated, we are also dealing with wetlands on the property. Well, a lot of different parcels in Porter County that they build on all the time have wetlands. So that is just part of everyone doing their job and knowing how to work around wetlands. For the public, they will be able to get that together before they even start. I think that this is a good area for the hospital. Mr. Cole stated, I am not sure where I stand at this point. Yes, we have had some building on hydric soil and on wetlands and it has been a problem. Sometimes it takes as much as ten years for those problems to show up, but problems to occur. I grew up in this area and I know that this isn’t quite as wet or wasn’t quite as wet at one time. Some of these that we are calling wetlands probably are not wetlands as Mr. McQuestion has verified from the soil map. Wetlands that are there have been caused by excessive runoff from the road construction for the Bypass and for U.S. 6 that were never really adequately resolved by the State. I would like to ask if the Courts of Indiana have installed their detention pond, because I don’t see it and some of that water is affecting this property. I am not as worried about the wetland issue in this section. I am worried about the wetland issue in the North section, the 40 acres that is heavily wooded. That is old growth trees, and that is a natural resource. That will have to be addressed eventually. If we do rezone this I would prefer that that 40 acres not be included in the institutional zoning. We need to know the nature of that pipeline regardless whether we are going to be near it or away from it. This is a considerable amount of parking and parking garages are good answers to drainage problems created by them and also from the water infiltration into the water table. This is rezoning and you are going to great cost to look at this property and if we rezone it we may be giving you the feeling that everything else after that is going to pass. If we rezone it, I would like the rezoning contingent on your ability to address all of these issues that have been brought up tonight, including the quality of life change for several families that are living on the virtual edge of this plan and development. What does this bring to Porter County and Liberty Township, if there is going to be a Liberty Township in a couple of years. I know there is a lot of people who don’t think much of Damon Run Conservancy District. There is a lot to be studied in the Damon Run Conservancy District. In fact, any conservancy district in the rural area. This really stands to benefit a lot of people. This was one big swamp a little over 100 years ago. It doesn’t offer the best septic fields and sometimes it doesn’t make for the best well water, either. The conservancy district is a boon to Liberty Township, and the more people who get into it, the more people who pay the fees reduce the fees for everybody else. Eventually, it becomes a community run organization. There will be an increased tax revenue that will be so beneficial to this area. You’ve pretty much committed yourself to a green building. At least that is what I pretty much heard, or that is what I wanted to hear. That means a lot to everybody concerned these days. The trend in hospitals these days is wellness, gardens, areas, parks and so forth. This is a beautiful spot. Properly maintained, properly built, this could be a real boon to a hospital. Not very many hospitals have anything like this. It could possibly be partnered with the Porter County Parks Department as part maintenance, part planning. It could remain as habitat for the animals in the area. I would strongly urge that if this gets that far that you consider that 40 acres as habitat and as a wellness park for the use of your patients and for the use of the public in general. I cannot see this without two entrances. There is some development to the Northwest that could tie into this property. I think that this is a solvable issue, but it requires cooperation and talking to other developers. U.S. Hwy 6 has to go to four lanes. We need to have INDOT talk with you and talk with us. We need to put the hammer on them and ask them just why they are not thinking. I would like to ask our attorney if we can rezone contingent upon fulfillment of the plan. If they cannot fulfill the plan, can it return to single-family residential? Attorney McClure stated, yes. Our recommendation can contain a contingency that obviously we could pass along to the Commissioners. It has been done in the past where if, in a certain period of time, the proposed development would not go in that the zoning could revert back to its original zoning. Mr. Cole asked, could you consider your 40 acres as a habitat, as a wellness park, and possibly a shared use with the County for passive recreation? Also, would you please consider a parking garage more so than a parking lot? Mr. Ferngren stated, yes to question number two. Also, the Northern 40 acres for wellness would be considered. It will need to be zoned Institutional for the hospital to be able to do that. Mr. Read stated, this is a major decision on our part, because this is going to be forever, as far as we are concerned. Mr. Read is concerned that he has to make a major decision and he has just received drawings on this two hours ago. The Chamber of Commerce stated that this would bring good jobs to Porter County. Mr. Read asked the petitioner if he would agree that wherever this is located in Porter County that will result in good paying jobs. Mr. Ferngren stated, I will agree with that. Mr. Read stated, that this is supposed to be a county hospital, and what about the South end of the county. He asked if they have considered a more central location, like Valparaiso or on the outskirts of Valparaiso. Mr. Nalli stated, throughout the demographic studies that we got not only in the next two years but through 2011 and 2015, this seems to be the most desirable location. As part of Porter’s growth plan to serve not just the Northern part of the county but to also address the Southern part of the county we have got locations in Valparaiso, as well as in Portage and in Chesterton. We have smaller parcels of land in terms of ten acres in Valparaiso, 40 acres in Chesterton about 45 acres in Portage, as well as additional sites in Hebron and DeMotte that we plan on expanding in the future so that we can address the needs of the Southern part of the county, primarily South of U.S. 30. As we look to serving those portions of the county, there is still a need to provide state of the art technology in a central location with the best access to it. U.S. 6 and SR 49 offers that to us. Mr. Read stated, let’s assume you want to go North. We are talking about another hospital just like the one South of this. How is this going to affect your plans? Mr. Nalli stated, actually two reasons that we are focused on the plan to provide a replacement for not just Porter County but for Northwest Indiana. Porter is still the only health care provider to commit in writing in form of the asset purchase agreement, as well as towards our actions of constructing a minimum of 225, all private beds, to serve not just Porter County but Northwest Indiana. In addition to it, the plans that we have set forth for 2008 and the next several years as we continue to utilize the Valparaiso hospital and as we look to expand into a new campus at the Northwest corner if you grant that is to increase the technology and the surgical and medical specialties so that we can take on higher levels of care that are needed to decrease that migration to Chicago and Indianapolis. This is not just a feeder system to another large facility. We want to keep all of Porter County and Northwest Indiana patients inside Porter County. Mr. Read stated, there is some big space just North of the Toll Road by Coffee Creek and on the West side of the Bypass; have you looked in that area? Mr. Nalli stated, actually we addressed the Coffee Creek site as we conducted the study over the past seven months as to what would be a suitable location. The Coffee Creek site is roughly two to three miles North. It does not address any of the needs of South county to which we feel are necessary and important. In addition to it, as you look to see the population estimates grow in Porter County going farther North into Coffee Creek because you have Lake Michigan farther North it doesn’t offer the best suitable central location for a hospital facility of the size and stature that we are looking to construct. Mr. Read stated, there is another area South of the Toll Road that is opening up. Have you considered that? Mr. Nalli stated, this to us with all of the population growth statistics, central location this is the ideal site that we feel to not just serve Porter County but all of Northwest Indiana. Mr. Read asked, are you saying that this other site that is one or two minutes North does not? Is that what you are saying? Mr. Ferngren stated, yes. Mr. Read stated that he is interested in preserving the green area that is to the North of the site and he is curious to know where they might expand in the future. Mr. Nalli stated that the 105 acres allows them, from what they can project for health care for the next 40 or 50 years, allows them to expand to meet the needs of Northwest Indiana. Mr. Read asked if he is saying now that they are going into that green area for expansion. Mr. Nalli stated, not at this time. Mr. Read asked if Mr. Cole’s concern about preserving that is now in jeopardy. Mr. Nalli stated that he would not agree with that. Mr. Read stated that when you turn off U.S. 6 you go down a hill into a hole; what is the difference in elevation between U.S. 6 and when you reach the bottom of that hole? Mr. Nalli stated that he has no idea. Mr. Read asked if they are planning to put the hospital down in that hole or if they plan to put fill in on that so that they are at the same elevation as U.S. 6. Mr. Nalli stated that currently they plan to build on the existing elevations. Mr. Read stated that there is massive drainage from the East going under the 49 Bypass at two major locations. There is water running Northward from the South, and from the field on the West; there is water coming onto the site from the East, South and West going to the North. He agrees with Mr. Schraeder that what happens downstream offsite is within the Commission’s consideration this evening. Construction is only going to make things worse. When he was down there, he saw a lot more wetlands than what is shown on this map. Maybe they are only dealing with the Corps of Engineers jurisdictional wetlands. They are only dealing with the Army Corps’ and the state of Indiana’s definitions of wetlands. Are they aware that Porter County has its own definition of wetlands, which is sometimes a bit more encompassing? Mr. McQuestion stated that in 15 years Mr. Read is the first person to say that to him. Mr. Read stated that besides wetlands, the site is crisscrossed with ponds, woods, gullies. There will have to be a lot of recontouring, filling in, cutting down…a lot of changes to the land. They’ve said that the area to the North is going to be their expansion area. Would they like to comment on that? Mr. Nalli stated that he doesn’t know what they can add to their previous statements. Mr. Read stated that it would seem to him that a good spot would be something that’s high and dry and flat. Mr. Nalli stated that this site works for all the hospital’s ideas and concepts and they believe this is the best location. Mr. Breitzke stated that this is the site they are petitioning for and we really need to be more directed on the site itself. Mr. Read stated that they are the ones who brought up the matter of alternate sites. Overall, he thinks this is one of the worst sites he’s seen for any kind of major development. One of the things he looks at first on a rezoning is whether it’s in the spirit of our master plan and he doesn’t think it is. Ms. Marshall stated that it doesn’t seem to be a good site; it has problems already and she doesn’t know if they can be solved. Will the ingress/egress road be a County road? Mr. Ferngren stated, no. The parts that are in the right-of-way will be built to County standards. Ms. Marshall stated that she just wanted to know if it will be County-maintained. It says it’s a County road on the plan. Mr. Ferngren stated that to the extent that it’s located in the right-of-way, it will be a County road. Mr. Breitzke stated, for clarity, it’s not a County road; it’s a private driveway, but they will be required to dedicate road right-of-way and whether that’s private or public will be up to the Commissioners. Ms. Marshall stated that she doesn’t think they’ve worked out the plan very well with only one ingress and egress. She has been told that they need this zoning for the entire acreage, so that tells her that they have something planned. A source tells her that they have an assisted living facility planned for the Northern portion of this property – is that true? Mr. Ferngren stated that no assisted living is planned for this site. Ms. Marshall stated that, regarding the drainage, they are going to follow, to the letter, the 69.5 of the drainage law, where they will identify every bit of water that comes onto the property and that leaves the property. She thinks that they are being misleading about the amount of jobs that the facility would create since jobs at the current Valparaiso site would transfer. How many beds is the current Valpo facility? Mr. Nalli stated, 200, but they can’t always operate at capacity, thus the need to move to an all-private bed facility so there is not that issue. Ms. Marshall asked if he is saying that they are going from a 200+ semi-private setup to a 225 private room setup. Mr. Nalli stated, yes, with the ability to expand at a later date, based on need. Ms. Marshall asked if he thinks they are going to get better-trained doctors with this facility. Mr. Nalli stated that the existing medical staff at Porter, this staff, and the addition of new technologies that physicians are being trained at now…it’s a higher level of physician in terms of board-certification etc., so, yes, he believes that having a new facility and the ability to have new technology brings in physicians into an already-well-qualified medical staff. Ms. Marshall asked if he would agree that the existing Porter Hospital is already a first-class hospital. Mr. Nalli stated that the physical plant met the needs of the community as it grew, but it’s worn out and they are facing issues with it as far as what may come in the next several years. Regarding the level of the associates at the facility, as well as the medical staff and their training, he feels it’s one of the finest institutions in this country. He stated that he’s been here since May 1st. Ms. Marshall asked if the parking around the hospital will all be paved. Mr. Ferngren stated that they are working on the design for development plan review. They are exploring a parking garage facility. Ms. Marshall asked how tall the building will be. Mr. Ferngren stated that it’s shown as five stories. Ms. Marshall asked what the limited highway ingress/egress requirements are. Mr. Ferngren stated that it’s his understanding that that is their only permitted access. Ms. Marshall asked how wide it is. Mr. Ferngren will specify the widths, turning lanes, etc. and that will all be included as part of the development plan. Mr. Duffy stated that right now it’s 58 feet. Ms. Marshall asked how many parking spaces they have to provide with the current plan. Mr. Clark stated that 3 to 5 spaces per bed is what they look at. Ms. Marshall stated that then you have staff. Mr. Clark stated that that’s included in the calculations. Ms. Marshall stated that the drawing indicates that they think they are going to have to have water storage here. Mr. Duffy stated that the detention pond design for the Petersburg, VA hospital is similar in square footage and area. Ms. Marshall asked if it’s going to be a retention or detention pond. Mr. Duffy stated, detention. Ms. Marshall asked about the progress and route of the sewer line. Mr. Ferngren stated that they got a letter today from the secretary of the Damon Run Conservancy District that they constructed sewer works connecting to the Portage System at Bay Road and extended those all the way to Meridian and then North to Timberland subdivision. There is a lift station near MTI body shop and from there West to Bay Road, that sewer line was dedicated to Portage. Commissioner Harper asked what the difference in employment will be between the present facility and this one. Mr. Nalli stated that he doesn’t have an exact number right now. Commissioner Harper stated that he thought they were saying that they thought they would have about 2,000 jobs at this facility. Mr. Nalli stated that they have about 2,000 jobs in their existing facility. Commissioner Harper stated that this facility will bring more taxes and good jobs and has to be placed somewhere. They say that 38 percent of the people are leaving the area to go elsewhere for health care and there are no private rooms and funds are limited and the current facility was not going to survive. A decision was made to try to attract the best possible health care facility to the area. In Merrillville, within 15 to 20 minutes, there are three health care facilities that are better funded than the people in Porter County have. He stated to Mr. Read that he doesn’t want to hear about somebody having a plan to bring a health care facility into Coffee Creek. This is the only group at this time that has committed the money on paper, by contract, to come into this County and provide this size of a hospital to give the level of care that he wants to have if he walked out the door tonight and was having chest pains. Once rezoning is accomplished, they have to come back to the Plan Commission for development review to answer drainage and access questions. Mr. Breitzke stated that he lives three blocks from the current hospital and he would rather they not leave and do rolling construction on the existing site, but the practicality is not there. Hydric soils are on the adjoining site to the North end. He agrees with Commissioner Harper that, if we do this, they make tight contingencies. Wildlife will acclimate. Strategically, he believes they need an access off SR 49, specifically for the purposes of ambulances to come at the cross-over, maybe halfway between the railroad and U.S. Hwy 6. Likewise, he would hope that limited access on 6 will be expanded Eastwardly. It is hoped that they go green. He would be adamant about a parking garage because there is a maximum amount of parking spaces that they would be allowed. He thinks that 3 to 5 spaces per bed would exceed that. A parking garage would assist that. He suspects they would have to get a Variance for building height. Mr. Cole stated that he was pleased about all the people who spoke up tonight. Mr. Detert moved to forward Case 07-Z-14 to the County Commissioners with a favorable recommendation, subject to a return to the original zoning if the hospital is not built; making an attempt to provide as green a design as possible. Mr. Burns seconded the motion, which carried on the following ballot vote:
Cole - No Detert - Yes Harper - Yes At this time, Commissioner Harper left the meeting. Case 07-M-3. Petition of the Porter County Plan Commission, 155 Indiana Ave., Suite 311, Valparaiso, Indiana, for an amendment to Ordinance No. 07-05, Chapter 10, Section 10.32 (Subdivision Control; General), C (Authorization to Subdivide) 1. (Standard Zoning Districts) of the Porter County Unified Development Ordinance. Mr. Thompson stated that this is that in the current UDO in Chapter 10 it listed the current districts in Draft C and the intent is to list the districts that were actually shown within the code within Chapter 2. In this case, it was under Subdivision Control General, so he was deleting out the districts that were being shown, because there were some districts that we don’t have that were shown, such as A3 and RS. No one spoke in favor of this petition. No one spoke against this petition. The public hearing was then closed. Mr. Burns moved to approve Case 07-M-3. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on the following ballot vote:
Cole - Yes Detert - Yes Hutson - Yes Case 07-M-4. Petition of the Porter County Plan Commission, 155 Indiana Ave., Suite 311, Valparaiso, Indiana, for an amendment to Ordinance No. 07-05, Chapter 5, Signs. Mr. Breitzke stated that currently the UDO allows for electronic message boards within Commercial, Institutional and Industrial Districts. The language can be found under each district section, Chapter 5, for Sign Standards. The message board is under the heading of changeable copy. The proposed ordinance is attached for review (mailed in report). Mr. Thompson stated that message boards are typically seen on certain businesses and might be electronic and scroll. It was written in there to state a static message, but there is no definition for static. At this time, there are a number of cases at the BZA on this and the County Commissioners want it out. This, however, would not prohibit somebody from having a message board where they can actually change the characters on the board. But it would prohibit banks from putting in a flashing temperature sign anymore without a Variance. Ms. Stevenson asked, how about at the Expo Center? Mr. McClure stated, if this is changed, that would not affect the Expo Center. Mr. Breitzke stated that he thinks the definition of static wasn’t clear. No one spoke in favor of this petition. No one spoke against this petition. The public hearing was then closed. Mr. Detert moved to approve Case 07-M-4. Mr. Burns seconded the motion, which carried on the following ballot vote:
Hutson - No Marshall - Yes Read - Yes At this time, Mr. Thompson stated that interviews are set up for 5 p.m. December 20th for the four consultants that have submitted proposals to do the corridor study and also the construction standards. At this time, Mr. Thompson stated that Ray Joseph and he worked on a new primary plat application and checklist, which was sent to the members. All must be also sent to all Plan Commission members. The change that Mr. McClure is recommending is that all packets be submitted to the Plan Commission office 15 days ahead of a meeting date so that that way staff can see to it that the packet that will go to the members is complete and that they will be providing Plan Commission staff with addressed, stamped envelopes so that the Plan Commission office will not be responsible for payment of the postage. Mr. Burns asked if staff will actually send the packets out. Mr. McClure stated that that’s the choice. One way would be that the petitioner would give the packets to the staff for review and once staff says that it’s complete, the petitioner would come in, pay the money and then the petitioner would be responsible for getting it mailed out to the Plan Commission members 10 days prior. If they do not do any of those steps they are automatically continued. Mr. McClure’s suggestion is that once staff says that the packet is complete, staff then makes sure that each Plan Commission member is mailed all that stuff. Mr. Burns stated, that seems like a lot of work for the staff. Mr. Detert stated that he thinks we don’t really need that. If you get your packet and you want more information, call in. He’s against putting more work on staff when all it takes is a call from the members to say they didn’t get something or they want more information. Mr. Burns stated that another option may be to have a checklist that is initialed with the necessary items and then the developer sends the packet out with the check sheet. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:30 p.m.
PORTER COUNTY S\ Kevin D. Breitzke, President Attest: S\ Robert W. Thompson, Jr., AICP, Executive Director/County Planner |
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December 12, 2007