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PORTER COUNTY PLAN COMMISSION
Regular Meeting M I N U T E S The regular meeting of the Porter County Plan Commission was held on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 at 6:30 p.m. in the Porter County Administrative Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana. Those members present were Rick Burns, Tim Cole, Robert Detert, Commissioner Bob Harper, Todd Hutson, Elizabeth Marshall, Herb Read, Rita Stevenson and Kevin Breitzke, President. Staff members present were Robert W. Thompson Jr., Attorney Scott McClure, Raymond Joseph Jr. and Patricia S. Gibson. Mr. Detert moved to waive the reading of the October 10, 2007 meeting and approve them as received in the mail. Mr. Hutson seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote. Old Business: Case 07-FP-14. Petition of Robert M. Sands, 179 S. Smoke Road, Valparaiso, Indiana seeking secondary plat approval for Morgan Subdivision 1742-B-1 to be located at 150 S. Smoke Road in Morgan Township, Porter County, Indiana. (To contain 1 lot on 2.1 acres. Property is zoned RR.) Donald Bengel stated I am here with Robert Sands the owner of this one lot project. This project has been before you twice, once for a rezone and then for the primary plat. We have made no changes. Mr. Burns stated I have no questions. Mr. Detert stated I have nothing. Mr. Hutson asked Mr. Sands are you the one that is going to be residing there. Mr. Sands stated no. Mr. Hutson asked does this actually kick in for the AG disclosure for the subdivision. Mr. Thompson stated the application came in prior to the UDO and the UDO is the one that requires the AG disclosure statement.
Mr. Sands stated that is fine. Is that something I have to do… Mr. Bengel stated it is something you sign. Mrs. Stevenson stated I have nothing. Mr. Cole stated I will let Mr. Read talk because I know he has some concerns. Mr. Read asked Mr. Sands are you going to live there.
Mr. Sands stated no. I am going to sell it. Mr. Bengel stated I presented the primary plat and this is the final plat. Mr. Read asked at the primary what information did you supply? Mr. Bengel stated everything that is required. We had a topo sheet like this and then there was another sheet that had the location and the water shed map. Mr. Breitzke stated I think what Mr. Read is getting at is that he did request that whenever someone presents a final plat any paper work for primary and final he wanted copies of. Mr. Read stated that is what I am getting to. Mr. Bengel stated I am happy to do that but I think you should make it part of the written rules so everybody knows about that. Mr. Read stated our lawyer says that I can make this request with or without. If we have to change the rules, I will be glad to change the rules. I do have concerns on the drainage or the water flow on this site in addition to the fact that I didn’t have the complete package in front of me. We have this high area to the west and any house that is there you put the house where it shows on the contour sheet, you are going to have
Mr. Bengel stated where the house will be it will go east and then to the south. Mr. Read stated you still will have a problem along this west side where we have a high embankment and whatever house you are going to have to build the first floor is going to have to be raised up and then sloped away from the house to compensate for the 107 and 108 elevations along the west. All of that is solvable. I am advising you that in the future I want to see what happens here because I can see this site having quite a puddle on the east end, which is alright because that is where your open space is and your drainage easement. I have reservations on the flow to the south. I think that there is going to be some flow to the north and a possibility of overflow on CR 150 S. We have approved it and I hope it works out. I am not going to approve this because I have said repeatedly that I want the complete package at secondary. Everything that was submitted at primary I want at secondary. If the rest of the members of this panel don’t want it that is fine but I do want it. Mrs. Marshall asked do you have Health Department approval for the septic. Mr. Bengel stated yes. Mrs. Marshall asked wasn’t this a septic system with a perimeter drain around it. Mr. Bengel stated it didn’t have a perimeter drain. Mr. Breitzke stated he did show that on the preliminary plat. Mrs. Marshall stated so it was perked by the Health Department and has approval. Mr. Bengel stated it wasn’t perked but there were three soil tests done by Mr. McQestion from Soils Solutions. Mrs. Marshall stated the county did get the additional setback from the road for the Thoroughfare Plan. Mr. Bengel stated yes, 40-feet for the right-of-way and another 40-feet for the setback.
Mr. Bengel stated yes. Commissioner Harper stated I have no questions. Mr. Burns moved to approve Case 07-FP-14 contingent on the Agriculture Disclosure Statement. Mr. Hutson seconded the motion, which carried on the following roll call vote:
Burns - Yes Cole - Yes Detert - Yes Commissioner Harper moved to amend into our rules that the petitioner submit a complete package with the secondary plat and be available to all Plan Commission members in the same time frame as any other submittals of the Plan Commission are required to be. Mr. Detert seconded the motion. Attorney McClure stated I believe that would be an amendment to the application package. Discussion: Mr. Cole stated I would like to enter into discussion the approvals of the Health Board and the data from the soil borings. They are presented at primary but they should also be presented at secondary. Commissioner Harper stated if we require everything that they gave at primary doesn’t that include that or not. Mr. Breitzke stated they don’t have to design the septic system at primary but what they are looking at the suitability of the soils. Are we going to be requiring for the septic fields…part of the problem is we don’t know where the house the driveway the… Commissioner Harper stated the motion that I made was to give all the paper work that they give at primary also at secondary. Now, I thought that they had to give that at primary. Now I am being told that they don’t so I guess that would be an amendment to the motion, that that should include what Tim. Mr. Cole stated it should include the Health Department findings, Highway Report and signed by the people who do them.
Mr. Cole stated correct. Attorney McClure stated that is different than the septic field being engineered. Mr. Cole stated any conditions that they may have placed on the septic field. Attorney McClure stated we need that from the Health Department in writing etc. Mrs. Marshall stated we have the Highway Department and the Drainage Board also. Highway Department in this case indicated that…they always give a letter that you never have any objections. I know it is kind of a form letter. I wish it were more what we are looking for. Commissioner Harper stated I am working on that. Mrs. Marshall stated also drainage. I know that this is a one lot subdivision and he has indicated where the drainage is. Mr. Read questions the drainage. I suppose that it went to the Drainage Board for review and we don’t get all of that stuff. Mr. Read stated so we should add the Drainage Board report. Commissioner Harper stated I will withdraw my motion. Mr. Detert stated I withdraw my second. Commissioner Harper stated why don’t we let Scott write up an amendment to the rule and have it read at the next meeting. Is that okay with everybody? Mr. Hutson asked is this going to be a check list that they are going to have…Can we see the actual checklist because we might want to add to that. Mr. Thompson stated we are working on that. Commissioner Harper stated if we are working on it maybe we should amend it tonight.
Commissioner Harper moved that at secondary plat submittal the petitioner submit to the Plan Commission members all the information that they are required to present at primary plat including any and all information that they have submitted to the Plan Commission and including but not limited to any soil reports, any reports from the Health Department, any Highway Reports, any reports from the Drainage Board and the Right to Farm Disclosure. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Breitzke asked does this apply to our next meeting then? Commissioner Harper stated I assume that it would. We need to get this written up. Any other matter that may come properly before the Commission. Discussion on Falling Waters Subdivision. Tony Floramo and Mike Cap are representing Falling Waters. Mr. Floramo stated I am pleased to report that there has been significant progress since the last Planning Commission meeting. Specifically, the items that were brought up at the last Planning Commission meeting. First and foremost, I gave Mr. McClure a copy of the official executed resolution. We picked this up from Mr. Hollenbeck today. We had the Home Owners/Conservancy District meeting last Thursday and in that Mr. Hollenbeck had the resolution already adopted. We amended it to put specific language that identified the dollar amount, meaning the $1749 would be the tax for the first five years as a maximum and two thousand and some odd dollars, I don’t have it in front of me, for years five through whatever would be the special benefits tax or the ditch tax that would be assessed to each lot in Falling Waters for the conservancy district. At the last meeting the Planning Commission wanted to see something in writing that this was done and executed. Mr. Hollenbeck also told me this evening that the second week of November he will be going before the Circuit Court to get that. The next item that was a concern was soil erosion. Last Friday, we had trucks go out and hydro seed every area that was identified on the Armstrong report. I was physically out in Falling Waters today and noticed that some of those areas sprouted grass. Some of it is working. I would like to report that I misspoke at the last meeting. We did hydro seed and seed an area that I wasn’t aware of. I reported that we didn’t do any of that type of control. The entire waste water treatment plant was seeded and hydro seeded
Mr. Detert asked when one of the lift stations goes out you have a light that flashes. Mr. Floramo stated yes. Mr. Detert asked do you have a main board somewhere where someone notes that this is happening. Mr. Floramo stated we have some of the residents, specifically Mr. Bobby Jones, who lives right there, that light has gone off like three times. Mr. Detert stated what I was there for was to look at that hydro seeding on that very steep hill that has been dug out behind that corner that has severe erosion in it. I was there last Friday when the hydro seeding was done. They did not get in the crevice. Yesterday when I was there that hydro seeding was green because of the fertilizer and stuff in it. Also, on Ledano
Mr. Hutson asked are you prepared to do some more hydro seeding in the spring. Mr. Floramo stated we are under warranty with the hydro seeder on the areas that we did.
Mr. Detert stated at the far west side someone is digging a hole there. I don’t know if there is a sewer problem. Mrs. Stevenson asked what about the Association fees and how was that addressed at your last meeting. Mr. Floramo stated it is my understanding that there were close to 90 liens that were recorded. What we did if somebody did not pay and it went through a second round of ownership we gave them to October 31. Money is starting to flow in and that is a good thing. Mr. Cole stated I didn’t see the hydro seeding areas yesterday but I did see significant erosion. Evidently they weren’t concerns of R.W. Armstrong or they would have been hydro seeded, I guess. The lot on Cirque Court still has a lot of debris up by the road. Who is that builder? Mr. Floramo stated Dynasty Builders and that is Lot 51. Mike Haller, Porter County Building Commissioner, stated I have his name. This builder has issues in another subdivision as well. Mr. Read stated why is it only now we are finding out that the manufacturer makes only a twelve inch cap for a twenty-four inch wall. Another way you can do this is to put up some forms and pour some concrete and anchor the cap down into the voids. At this time, there was a short discussion concerning the caps and the retaining wall.
Mr. Floramo stated I will get you a copy of the site plan with the house and give it to Mr. Thompson. I did talk to him specifically on the timing of that retaining wall and when it was going to get in. He said he was going to get on it because he doesn’t want to loose the money in his paver driveway. He does have silt fence at the lake. Is it enough? That I don’t know. With the erosion ordinance that is in place, can the Building Department specifically identify that house as a violation of that silt fence ordinance and stop the construction. Mr. Breitzke stated the answer to your question… Attorney McClure stated yes. Mr. Read stated across the way on the lake side of that same road in an occupied house there is another slope going down into the waterway that leads right into the lake it looks like he covered it with top soil. It is not as steep and it is right by his driveway. I don’t know if vegetation, lawns will take care of that. There again if that is lift black dirt that is going to run off down into the lake too. Mr. Floramo stated they just closed that house a week and a half ago. The Home Owners Association made them place an escrow to the Home Owners Association for the finishing of the landscaping the soil conditions, they removed a tree from the Conservancy District without permission or whatever. So there was four or five thousand dollars that was placed in escrow. They have a certain time frame to get it fixed if not the Home Owners Association will put sod, seed or whatever and fix up these issues. With us controlling this now through the schedule B in conjunction with the Building Commissioner they cannot close without this. I submit a letter that is just like regular paid assessment letter in a condo association. If you don’t have this letter that you are in good standings with the by-laws and the deed you have to escrow or fix or whatever.
Mrs. Marshall asked have you filed the proper papers with the State.
Mr. Cap stated yes. Mr. Floramo stated no. Commissioner Harper stated I have no questions. Mr. Cole stated I would like to commend you for cleaning up the streets. When you enter the subdivision there is no mud in the streets. Mr. Breitzke stated Mr. Detert brought up some ponding in the street. You had used fabric to cover inlets. Please before winter sets in get all the fabric out. We are approaching inlet protection a little differently. Mrs. Stevenson asked are you prepared for snow plowing? Mr. Floramo stated yes. Mrs. Stevenson asked is that coming out of the Association fees? Mr. Floramo stated yes, absolutely. Mrs. Stevenson asked can you make sure that all of the different committees are working together with you two and Don Plumb so we don’t have to keep asking you back here. Mr. Floramo stated yes. Mr. Breitzke asked are there minutes of these meetings that you could forward to our Plan Commission so that we can see what… Mr. Floramo stated remember you have 145 deeded lots that have closed. We are averaging 30 to 35 individuals…so what we do with the minutes is in a newsletter we put all the items of discussion that took place in the newsletter and give it to everybody. Mr. Breitzke asked do you want them to come back. Mrs. Marshall stated I think that we have taken this as far as we can as far as the Plan Commission is concerned. I think that we set a new precedent in getting involved with
At this time, the Board had a small discussion on the construction standards. Mr. Cole asked is there an update on the Autumn Oaks drainage situation with the neighbor and internally with Autumn Oaks. Mr. Breitzke stated the material was delivered on site and he is supposed to start this week. The tubes will extend into the inlet and they don’t extend into her property. They are in the subdivision itself. It has the potential for putting some kind of under drain in. Once that is in we need to figure out if she is going to permit a drain to go through her property or if we can come through the other properties. More important, who is going to pay for it at that stage? Mr. Cole asked what about the drainage up by her house that she had complained about around her garage and coming out of the backyards of Autumn Oaks. Mr. Breitzke stated that still goes down to Mr. Sinkiewicz who is down at the bottom of that whole thing. Mr. Breitzke stated Mr. Thompson has a report on Eagle View. Mr. Thompson stated as part of the erosion ordinance goes I am to report to this Commission anytime staff issues stop work order in a development. Attorney McClure and I were out last week and we spoke with the developer of Eagle View in the single family residential section to talk about corrections needed in that part of the development. We didn’t get a chance to speak with the developer of the multi-family section. There are two different developers in there. After Attorney McClure and I spoke with the developers of the single family a rain event happen and complaints were received by the Plan Commission staff and the Commissioners office concerning erosion coming off of Eagle View. I went out there and looked at it myself and I drove through the single family part and I did not see any mud in the road or the curbs. I did drive through the multi-family section and I saw some problems. I asked another staff member to go out and document with photographs and to be included with the photographs we received from the complaint. From that we issued a stop work
Mr. Breitzke stated I would just like to add that Mike Haller and I visited this site. We had some extra time with Doug Wolfe. I still haven’t received the pictures from Mr. Wolfe of IDEM but we do have some other pictures and stuff at the time. This was on Thursday about two weeks ago. Dave Pakay stated this has been certainly one of the toughest sites that we have ever done. It is a remarkable piece of property. We have an addition to put down erosion blankets and even double erosion blankets in some areas. We have hydro seeded some areas. We have broadcast with rye in some areas. If you go out there you will see several banks of silt fences that we have put in as well. But we have done since we have cleaned the roads. We have put about two inches of straw over the center area. We are looking at bringing in the donuts that you have talked about to put around the inlets for the storm drainage. At this point in time, we have tried to put in seed in that center piece. It is a little late in the season to do that and IDEM feels the same way. We have already put in close to six figures in that site for erosion control. This is an extremely difficult site. Unfortunately, the lots are not selling the way that we hoped they would. The buildings will resolve a lot of that because we are putting in sod. We are trying to find a solution to this and I don’t know what it is except to just keep cleaning it up, to keep the silt fences, to put straw behind the silt fences. If there are any suggestions that you folks have we are certainly going to listen to them. It is not that we haven’t been out there cleaning it up. We do and we keep it fairly clean. At this time, the Board members had a discussion concerning the erosion problem at Eagle View. Commissioner Harper asked have we addressed this problem in our ordinance or are we addressing this problem in doing these things in phases. Mr. Breitzke stated the storm water ordinance is addressing the phases in the new subdivisions. Commissioner Harper asked who is doing that? Is DLZ doing this?
Commissioner Harper stated the worse thing you can do is tear off all the vegetation on a large piece of land. Do we address this at all? Mr. Thompson stated no, not along phasing nor construction sequencing. Mr. Breitzke stated let’s go back through and read it because I am sure that there is something pertaining to the phasing and the specifics. Commissioner Harper stated that land has been torn up there and it is several acres. Is there a requirement that they seed that? Mr. Thompson stated let me check into this and get back with you. Mr. Breitzke asked what does the Board want to do? Attorney McClure stated with the stop work order I believe it is a function for the Planning Department. Commissioner Harper stated the developer needs to deal with this. Mr. Thompson stated Mr. Pakay I will get a hold of you and arrange a schedule with Attorney McClure and myself to meet with you. There being no further business the meeting adjourned at 8:05 p.m.
Attest: Robert W. Thompson Jr. AICP, Executive Director/County Planner |
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October 24, 2007