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PORTER COUNTY PLAN COMMISSION
Regular Meeting M I N U T E S The regular meeting of the Porter County Plan Commission was held on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 at 6:30 p.m. in the Porter County Administrative Center, 155 Indiana Ave., Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana. Those members present were Tim Cole, Robert Detert, Commissioner Harper, Elizabeth Marshall, Herb Read, Rita Stevenson and Kevin Breitzke, President. Those members absent were Rick Burns, Todd Hutson. Staff members present were Robert W. Thompson Jr., Attorney Scott McClure and Patricia S. Gibson. Mr. Detert moved to waive the reading of the August 22, 2007 minutes and approve them as received in the mail. Mr. Cole seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote. Old Business: Case 00-P-16. Petition of David Riley, 39 S. 400 E., Valparaiso, Indiana to reinstate the primary plat of Riley Ridge Subdivision located on the East side of CR 400 E., approximately 1.4 mile South of Division Road, between Division Road and CR 100 S. in Morgan Township. (Con’t from the 8-22-07 meeting.) Donald Bengel stated I am here with Mr. and Mrs. David Riley who are the owners of the subject property. We are attempting to have our plat reinstated. This plat expired by error. This plat was done before the open space ordinance but we have tried to accommodate to the best of our ability to put in open space. We have 1.9 acres of true open space. We also we have 75-feet for regulated drain that we can’t count as open space but it can act as open space. There will be no new streets. Lot 9 would have 96-foot access, lot 10 would have 96-foot access to CR 400 E. Lots 8 and 15 would also use part of that strip for their access. There will be no new driveways coming out onto CR 400 E. If you look at lot 10, which has as 30-foot drive easement on it, we can dictate that the drive has to be put in that 30-feet and that there will be 66-feet left for open area. We have had a lot of years to see that the drainage system works here and there hasn’t been any problems whatsoever. The Health Department has approved the lots as they are now. Mr. Detert stated I have no questions. Mr. Cole started I have no questions.
Mr. Bengel stated we have made 20-foot walking and drainage easements and everyone has good access to the open space. The difference is we added that 30-foot driveway easement for lot 10 that will dictate that the drive has to go in that 30-feet. We have increased the size of the easements that we have shown before. They are 20-feet instead of 10-feet. Mr. Read asked are you saying that there is no new driveway opening onto CR 400 E. Mr. Bengel stated that was a mistake. There will be two. We are making lots 8, 9 and 15 use one access and lot 10 will have its access and lot 17, which is the present home of Mr. and Mrs. Riley has its own, but that is not new. Mrs. Marshall stated I have no questions. Commissioner Harper stated I have no questions. Commissioner Harper moved to approve the extension for Case 00-P-16 for a period of three (3) years from today’s date (9-12-07). Mrs. Marshall seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Case 07-P-15. Petition of James D. Williams, 394 W. 300 S., Valparaiso, Indiana seeking primary plat approval for Windy Oaks Subdivision, Phase C, to be located on the North side of CR 250 S. between CR 675 W. and CR 600 W. in Porter Township. (TO contain 2 lots on 3.88 acres. Property is zoned RR. Con’t from 8-22-07 mtg.) Donald Bengel stated I am here tonight with Jim Williams the developer of Windy Oaks Subdivision. After the last meeting we made some changes. We put a drainage note on the plat. We also have an existing building note concerning the existing pole barn that is on Lot 45. The note states that this pole building cannot be used for a living unit nor shall be used for any type of business. This will appear on the plat and on the covenants of the subdivision. We also changed the note on the open space ordinance. Mr. Detert stated I have no questions. Mr. Cole stated I have no questions. Mr. Read stated I have no questions. Mrs. Marshall stated I am still concerned about the non-conforming pole barn. On the note it says, “Without a variance.” In the future, they still could come in for a variance. Mr. Bengel stated Mr. Thompson says “yes”. Commissioner Harper stated I have no questions. Commissioner Harper moved to approve Case 07-P-15 for primary plat. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on the following ballot vote:
Cole - Yes Detert - Yes Harper - Yes New Business: At this time, Mr. Breitzke read the rules of conduct for a public hearing. Case 07-Z-12. Petition of Juan Otano, 421 W. 500 N., Valparaiso, Indiana for a proposed amendment to the Master Plan to rezone a parcel of land from C-1 to CH, High Intensity Commercial for a proposed Automobile Sales Business to be located at 155 West U.S. Highway 6 in Liberty Township. Sonia Otano stated I am here with my father, Juan Otano. I live at 5818 Jessica Avenue, Portage. My father lives at 421 W. 500 N. We are here to request a rezone from C-1 to CH for an automobile business. My father will have late model cars, 2000 and up. The inventory will be about $250,000 worth of cars starting out. Mr. Otano stated I want to build a building there and put up a fence and blacktop the parking. No one spoke in favor of this petition. Don Gilger, 134 Lexington Street. Mr. Gilger’s concerns are with drainage, traffic increase, after hour activity and drainage into the drinking water. Julie Wilson, 803 Concord St. Ms. Wilson’s concerns are traffic, break-in’s, the mess that may happen, and that this area is residential. Rosalee Malocha, 801 Concord St. Ms. Malocha’s concerns are drainage into the drinking system and drainage. Mr. Otano stated I am going to fix the drainage problem on both sides. At this time, Rita Stevenson joined the meeting. Ms. Otano stated there is a problem now with the drainage and it needs to be fixed. That is what we are planning to do. It is also an eyesore and it is to an advantage to get that fixed. Mr. Otano stated hours of operation will be 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. There will be no evening hours. Ms. Otano stated there will have to be lights put there. As far as alarms, everything is hooked up to the police station so it is not something that is going to be loud and everyone is going to hear it. The police will call my father if the alarm goes off. There will be camera’s outside and no phones ringing outside. Ms. Wilson’s concern is still about theft in that area. Mr. Gilger’s concern is on lighting. Mr. Otano stated there used to be a restaurant there and they had to have lights. The public hearing was then closed. Mr. Detert stated I really don’t see any pressing need to increase the zoning here to CH. Mr. Cole stated I know there is some commercial use in the area. I don’t think this is a place for high intensity commercial. I am looking at an area map and I see at least four subdivisions, two of them very new in the area. I see three older subdivisions all within 1000 feet of this area. There is a lot of mixed use in this area and I don’t think there should be. I think the trend in the area has been to residential more so than commercial. I really don’t think that this is the place for high intensity commercial. Mr. Read asked do you own this property. Mr. Otano stated yes. Mr. Read asked how about the property next to you. Mr. Otano stated I don’t own that. It is for sale. Mr. Read stated I am concerned about the traffic on Rt. 6 and how this will fit into the Master Plan and our Thoroughfare Plan. Mrs. Stevenson stated I have no questions. Mrs. Marshall stated you made a comment was it 250 cars or $250,000. Ms. Otano stated $250,000 worth of inventory. Mrs. Marshall asked what size is that parcel. Ms. Otano stated 1.65 acres. Mrs. Marshall asked have you ever been in business or are you currently in business. Mr. Otano stated yes. I have been in business for 20 years. Mrs. Marshall asked where. Mr. Otano stated in Hebron. Mrs. Marshall stated I have no other questions. Commissioner Harper stated this area is one of the best examples of bad zoning in Porter County. Commissioner Harper moved to forward Case 07-Z-12 to the County Commissioner’s with an unfavorable recommendation. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on the following ballot vote:
Cole - Yes Detert - Yes Harper - Yes This case will be heard by the County Commissioners on October 2, 2007 at 6:00 p.m.
Commissioner Harper asked could we please by our next meeting have an amendment to our rules requiring these people to pay to have notices out for the meeting to the Commissioners. I think that we could do it with a simple motion. I need the names of the petitioners and the stationary so I can type these up and get these notices out to the remonstrators. Case 07-DP-7. Petition of Jeffrey D. Jones, 414 Meadowbrook Drive, Valparaiso, Indiana seeking a development review for a four (4) unit commercial building to be located at 320 N. 325 E. in Washington Township. Eric Banschbach from Torringa Land Surveying is representing Jeff Jones from Ashford Builders who is the petitioner. I do have revisions from the drawings that the Commission has previously received that reflect some of the changes that were recommended from last DAC meeting basically from Mr. Breitzke. This is a four-unit commercial building. One of the units will be occupied by the petitioner and the remaining units to be leased. The site is zoned I-1. The proposed site will include the 160’ x 48’ commercial building and will have the required parking per your ordinance, septic field, well and the required detention areas. The building can be accessed from CR 325 as well as the existing private road 316 N., which is a part of Brooks Development. The drainage for the site will be collected in the two ponds on the south side of the property and outletted through a standpipe and the existing swale that is basically in the right-of-way of 316 N. to the west and then ultimately south under the road and to the existing detention area on the south side of lot G in Brooks Development. The changes on the drawing basically include the recalculation for the ten year storm as oppose to the two year storm that your ordinance requires. We will be asking for a special exception through the BZA for sewer and water. Mr. Breitzke stated I believe the change on this plat was the ten foot drainage easement on the north side. No one spoke in favor of this petition. Lynda Haniacek, 324 N. 325 E. I just want to know what they are planning on doing. We are not here for or against the petition. We just don’t know anything about the property next to us. Mr. Breitzke stated you own the Lamp Shade Company. Basically, unlike when you came and got your permits we are now requiring all development plans to come before the Plan Commission through public hearing just to have an input from the adjoining property owners and to try and address any other issues that might be existing that we might be able to fix. The public hearing was then closed. Mr. Detert stated I made a comment before about things that are heard at DAC and then DAC recommends changes and the changes come and they never go back to DAC. I think that they ought to come back to DAC for review of the changes. I really don’t appreciate getting another new plat dropped on my desk and I understand that this is not real critical. I would feel a lot better if I knew that DAC had met and approved the final plat here. Are we getting the cart before the horse if they need a special exception now? Should they have gone before the BZA first? Mr. Thompson stated this is the first application under our new UDO as far as the development plan. After we accepted the application we did catch the fact they also needed a special exception. So they have applied for it. I would refer to Scott to see what his legal advice is on this situation. Attorney McClure stated it would be up to the Board’s pleasure as to how they would like the staff to deal with this issue as it comes up. As far as legally, obviously the approval tonight would be contingent upon receiving the special exception from the BZA and vise versa. Mr. Detert stated the other thing I said was not meeting the deadline and getting something placed in front of us. Commissioner Harper stated I see that on the staff report that it says that staff required a DLZ study. Is that correct? Mr. Thompson stated that is a mistake. Mr. Breitzke stated I don’t think you did. Did you, Bob? Mr. Thompson stated no I did not. I reviewed this and I don’t know why that was put into the report. I never requested it of them and this was in before the Plan Commission made the motion at the last meeting saying that everything would go there. They do have swales on the side and with the detention facility it was putting into an existing storm water system within the Brooks Subdivision.
Commissioner Harper asked is this building subject to our new UDO. Commissioner Harper asked what kind of lighting standards do we have in the UDO. Mr. Thompson stated they must be down shielded lights and since they are surrounded by industrial on all sides the lighting cannot exceed five luxs from their property line. Mr. Detert moved to continue Case 07-DP-7 and remand it back to DAC for review of the new changes and for DLZ review. Commissioner Harper seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Case 07-P-17. Petition of Terry Lahaie, 4001 W. 37th Ave., Suite C, Hobart, Indiana seeking primary plat approval for Avalon Hills Subdivision to be located on the Northwest corner of CR 350 N. and CR 725 W. in Union Township. (To contain 79 lots on 118.862 acres. Property is zoned RR, Rural Residential.) Todd Leeth stated I am her on behalf of Avalon Properties. Avalon Properties is the developer of the proposed subdivision know as Avalon Hills. We have provided for you some information tonight much of which has been previously submitted. I wanted to have that for you as well. We are going to talk about several different areas that are always important when we go through a new subdivision and look at that with the requirements of your subdivision control ordinance. Joining me are several members of the team that have been assisting Terry Lahaie and Denny Kesters, Avalon Properties owners. Chris Badger is with Badger Engineering from Lebanon, Indiana. Brad Boyer from Clearwater Solutions is going to speak to you in a little bit concerning the waste water treatment system. Chris Janak from Bowes McKinney & Evans council to the Union Township conservancy district is here as well. John McQuestion from Soil Solutions is here as well and he has been instrumental in reviewing the soil systems and open space issues. The property is questions, Avalon Hills, is located on 118 acres in Union Township in the west side of CR 725 W. and the aerial map, which we have displayed, and I will help you locate that. At this time, Mr. Leeth pointed to where Avalon Hills is located. CR 725 W. forms our eastern boundary with two access points back into the bulk of a 118 acres. CR 725 W. has a series of frontage sell offs as does CR 350 N. County Line Road lies to the west and does not front on any of our property on the west side and the northern property is agricultural to the north. CR 450 N. is then the next county road. The property is currently zoned Rural Residential and was since 1983 when the zoning map from 1983 was adopted. The proposed plat shows 79 buildable lots. Traffic is a concern, of course. CR 725 W. is classified as a local road under the County Thoroughfare Plan. CR 725 W. was recently rebuilt by the County Highway Department last year and is in good condition. Roads within the subdivision are going to be public streets. This is an illustration of the lot layout of the plat. Streets within the subdivision will be public streets. We have provided as your ordinance requires and suggests connectivity to the north, which is the only place a future subdivision can go. I have provided to you two photographs in the material that I have handed out earlier. Under tab 1 you will see two photographs, photograph A and B. First two photographs are photographs taken from the CR 725 W. right-of-way looking north and south from the approximate intersection of Avalon Hills. You can see that the sight distances are excellent. There is a very long distance of view. The road is flat and there are no hills, curves or encumbrances to sight distances and it provides for a safe ingress and egress to the subdivision. I contacted the Porter County Sheriff’s Department and they have no reports of any collisions or accidents or property damage reports of any kind on CR 725 W. from the period of time of August 1, 2006 to July 31, 2007. You will notice that the entranceway to the subdivision is wide in this area and they are trying to provide for a very upscale entryway. We recognize that we only have one entrance into the subdivision but by providing a very wide right-of-way we think we address some of the concerns with regards to that and second of all provide for a very attractive entrance to what the developers are trying to show as a front door entryway into their subdivision, a very attractive landscaped area. We are in a rural residential area so we are going to have individual wells to provide for domestic water for each of the homes within the subdivision. with regards to wastewater treatment and septic the residents are going to have a community wastewater treatment facility. This is a system that is referred to as a cluster septic system permitted by the State Department of Health. The local Health Department is not involved in the permitting process for inspecting. The soils are not the best in the area. There are some areas that do provide for good soils but overall it is not conducive. There are some other reasons why cluster septic is good in that it allows for each of the home owners to have control of their own backyard. They don’t have to have a field system or a septic system in their backyard so the home owners are free to have pools and tennis courts or what have you. To describe the system I am going to ask Brad Boyer from Clearwater Solutions to briefly kind of describe to you the functionality of the system and how it works. Brad Boyer, Clearwater Solutions. The system is a clustered septic system. Each lot or home site will have a tank with a pump on it that will pump through a small diameter pipe to a common re-circulating wetland cell. Those cells will be located at two corners of the property there. There are two cells with disposable fields here and two cells with disposable fields here. Approximately, 40 lots will flow this way and approximately 40 lots will flow this way. There will be treatment of the sewage and disposal of the wastewater will occur in these two common areas. Those areas will be in a conservancy district, which we will discuss later. Basically, in those areas there will be two wetland cells, two re-circulating wetland cells and several mounds. Those areas will be similar to what would be in your own backyard if you had a septic system. The mound would be mowed grass, green space. The wetlands will be plants and vegetation, another green space area. The wastewater will be treated in the wetland cells and be distributed into the mounds. The system has been reviewed and permitted by the State Health Department. We have been involved in cluster systems like these in probably 25 of the last 10 years throughout Indiana. Instead of having multiple septic systems throughout the subdivision that have a potential for failure you have two locations. There may be some concerns about failure. The systems are proven. One of the advantages that the developers have gone to in this case is each area is probably about twice as big what it needs to be so there is a lot of redundancy built into this system. You will hear health departments talk about set asides. Each area has its built in set aside within. So there is a lot of flexibility, there is a lot of density and there is a lot of green space. Mr. Leeth stated the wastewater treatment system is going to be controlled, owned and run by the Union Township Conservancy District. This conservancy district is technically a unit of local government. It was established through a recommendation by the Natural Resources Commission and was ordered established by the Porter County Circuit Court. The conservancy district was established to handle three things. One, the running of this system. I think it is important that the conservancy district is going to be the one in control of this not a private utility and not the developers. Once this system is up and functioning, the Board of Directors of the conservancy district, elected from the freeholders of the subdivision, will be in charge of making sure that this is done. We are going to have professional managers who are running the system because the freeholders are not in charge or have any expertise in managing the wastewater treatment facility or cluster septic system as this is called. The developer certainly isn’t so you hire the people who know how to do that, such as Mr. Boyer and his company. The other purpose why the conservancy district was created was to manage the storm water management system and also to maintain and operate the wetlands, parks and other forested and opened areas within the subdivision. Those are the three purposes that the conservancy district was established for under the order of the Porter County Circuit Court. Drainage is always a chief concern. Storm water will be managed through a gravity system with lot grading. In other words, each of the individual lots is graded to shed water away from the homes, away from the basements to side swales. The side swales go to rear lots or to the front yard road system where it is collected in a very traditional manner through the streets, catch-basins, drainage inlets in the rear of the yards into a storm sewer pipe system and carried to three retention ponds. The two large retention ponds in the northwest corner of the subdivision and more in the center of the subdivision there are some retention in the northern portion as well. Those are the three retention areas. Again, the conservancy district will be in charge of maintaining those. The Porter County Drainage Board has reviewed the subdivision in April of 2006 and accepted the subdivision as regulated drains but has not established any assessments. If this subdivision is approved, then the drainage system within the subdivision is already regulated and under the jurisdiction of the Drainage Board. Mr. Breitzke stated we will still have to have public hearings if we do a maintenance assessment. The easements are created ahead of time. Mr. Leeth stated the retention ponds and storm water management within this subdivision are not required under your ordinance to undergo the independent review from DLZ Engineering. However, staff has recommended and my client has indicated that they are willing to submit this project to DLZ and in fact they have done so. This has been done within the last few days. We do not have DLZ’s report. So at the conclusion of tonight’s hearing we would ask that you would not approve or take any action on this subdivision but that you continue it to your next meeting at which time we hope to have DLZ’s report. If there are any problems or deficiencies we will certainly correct those and return to you and ask for your approval at that time. Lastly, I want to touch upon the open space within the subdivision. As we have through the development review process at DAC, we have determined that there are no environmental features and therefore we have 15% open space, which works out to be 17.8 acres required and the plat shows 23 acres of open space. So we meet the open space requirements under that code. Walking trails are in the perimeter. You will notice that we have a series of open spaces or perimeter open space around the subdivision. It is 50-feet wide. These are deep properties but none of the less we are providing for a buffer along the entire perimeter of the subdivision. That buffer is not only going to be open space but it is also going to have a berm with some landscaping and throughout the entire trail the entire trail completely around the subdivision we have a walking trail that will be established by the developer. My client has taken every pain to comply with your ordinance and exceed every requirement that you have. They have assembled quality consultants to present to you a quality development. They want to and have tried to design a system in a subdivision that meets your ordinances and exceeds them in many respects. Enhanced landscaping, the open space, the water features within the subdivision are all things that will bring a quality subdivision. They have met with the neighbors about two weeks ago and have invited them to a forum to explain to them many of the things that we have explained to you tonight. Chris Rehtorik, 390 N. 725 W. Mr. Rehtorik’s concerns are the mound system and why are they not putting mound systems in each of the properties. Also, another concern is the traffic on the roads. Paul Cruse, 294 N. 725 W. Mr. Cruse’s concern is that there will be septic fields behind his house. Elaine Belt, 394 N. 725 W. Mrs. Belt’s concerns are that the wetlands will be behind her house. Jim Belt, 394 N. 725 W. Mr. Belt is against this petition. Bernice Humphrey, 400 N. 725 W. Mrs. Humphrey’s concerns are the septic system and the water. She asked where are all the wells going to be taking the water from. Lonnie Asher, 397 N. 725 W. Mr. Asher’s concerns are the traffic with this subdivision and that there will be an increase of 400% to 500% in traffic volume. He asked has there been a feasibility study on Union Center Elementary School, which is at a maximum now. Bill LaFever, 522 N. 750 W. Mr. LaFever’s concerns are drainage and where all of this water is going to go. Also, he is concerned about the traffic. Karen Abner, 379 N. County Line Road. Mrs. Abner’s concerns are that there is only one entrance to the subdivision and on emergency vehicles getting into the subdivision with only one entrance and if the entrance was blocked what would they do. She is also concerned about the drainage. Samuel Abner, 379 N. County Line Road. Mr. Abner asked if this is the actual plat. He is concerned about the subdivision having only one entrance, if the ponds overflow their property will be underwater. He is also concerned about the septic system and the quality of water that is going into the common area. Harold Hardesty, 398 N. 725 W. He is concerned about the water and where it is going to go. He would like to have names and places where this type of septic system was put in and whether it worked or didn’t work. Another concern is if this system fails after the subdivision is built does the taxation or the bill through the conservation district go back to the people that built the houses or does it go back to the people that built the subdivision. He is concerned about one access. There is another access road on this other side. Can they set this up for an emergency access? Dave Havens, 731 W. 350 N. He is concerned about the drainage. Mike Simatovich, 739 W. 350 N. His concern is the septic system and whether it will work and the traffic. Another concern is the depth of the lots. Suzanne Rivera, 367 N. 725 W. Her concern is the traffic coming in and out of the subdivision. The location of her house is right across the street from the entrance to the subdivision. She would like to see the entrance location changed. Ariel Rivera, 367 N. 725 W. His main concern is the entrance coming in on the back road and why not on County Line Road. He is also concerned about the traffic. Eddie Lewis was not present. Delores Lewis was not present. Edwin Rivera, 381 N. 725 W. He agrees with what has been said by his neighbors. Robert Parker, 380 N. 725 W. His concern is that there is one entrance, the overcrowding of schools. Are the walking trails just for the residence of the subdivision or for the public? He is also concerned about the retention ponds and if there is a smell from them. J. Ezell, 759 W. 350 N. He echo’s most of what has been said by his neighbors tonight. His concern is on fire protection and that this is 100% clay and it can’t take the water. He is also concerned about the septic system and whether it will work or not. Will it pollute the aquifer if it fails? Joan Wheeler, 361 N. County Line Road. She is in favor of this petition. She has a drainage problem now and she cannot see how this subdivision is not going to do anything but improve her water situation, if there is grass, if there are houses, if there are roads, if there are retention ponds. She knows what type of work Mr. Lahaie does and he has other subdivisions in Union Township and they are beautiful and he does take care of them. Linda Madrigal, 371 N. County Line Road. Her concern is the safety for the children that will be living in this subdivision to come over to her land or her neighbors land and if something happens to them they will be held liable. Jamie Rehtorik, 390 N. 725 W. She is concerned about the water problems, one entrance into the subdivision and the traffic. Rick Madrigal, 371 N. County Line Road. He is concerned on the wells and the possibility of them being polluted. He is also concerned about the septic system. Mr. Leeth stated I will be calling upon different members of the group that we have here to answer certain questions. The first question has to do with the mound system and the wetland cells. Mr. Badger stated the system is not an experimental system. It has been used since about 1986 and in 1986 it was an experimental. We have a list of sites that are used in Indiana and I think it was given to the people this evening. Mr. Leeth stated it is Tab 7 of the handout that I gave you. There are 51 cluster systems in the State of Indiana, currently permitted. Mr. Badger stated secondly this system is just like everyone out here has a septic tank but the difference is we don’t try to land applicate, which is what all this is. When you have a septic system and leach fields, that is land application. We are actually doing something different. What we are doing is taking only the effluent, which is the gray water that comes out of the septic tank that has four separate force mains. That is when we talk about different divisions. This is 80 lots, essentially, divided by four so we have 20 homes per septic area. The value we used on all of the flows for the houses was 150 gallons per bedroom. We used an average of 75% three bedroom homes and 25% four bedroom homes. That was used in the calculation submitted to the State. I keep hearing these people think that this hasn’t been designed or hasn’t been considered. John McQuestion has done extensive borings and we went back out and did re-borings in these areas just to make sure that we had percolations that would work. Just to let you know that we did use the lowest percolation that the State allows for this type of soil so that we are not trying to force 100% of this fluid into the ground. The wetland system allows the water to be treated. It takes five days for that water to flow through the wetland. Then what happens instead of taking 100% of that water and pumping it straight to the mound 80% of that water gets re-circulated. So it takes five times for a trip to go through that wetland before 100% of that water goes to the mound. By doing that, the plants that are in the wetland pick up the nutrient, pick up all of the gray water and turn it into water that is very clean. Not drinkable because of the bacteria but it still is very, very clean water. It no longer has a lot of the heavy metals, the phosphate, nitrogen has been removed. So most of the impurities that come out of a septic tank have been removed prior to even going to the mounds. Someone was concerned about the smell. The effluent that comes out of this is deposited under water so that no fumes come out. There is also five feet of gravel on top of this system so that if there were any smell coming up through the ground it would be filtered through lime stone. Lime stone is very good at being able to take out a lot of those odors if there were odors. Our only concern on this system is at the beginning and that means that when you only have two or three homes there is not enough water coming out of those two or three homes to make this whole system work. So what happens is that we have to augment the water in the wetland to keep the plants alive until we have enough homes. That is our only concern at this time with this system. I was working with a gentleman by the name of Ed Miller at the State Department and I would be happy to have any of you call and talk to him. This design has gone through four or five different reviews and has taken us six months to gain approval. We have gone extensively through this. Any questions that the State had brought up, which were extensive, we went through and solved those problems. We have excellent systems. All the systems in the people’s homes are going to be the exact same so that the systems very easily fixed. If your pump goes out on your dosing pump that is in your yard, it can be removed by the conservancy and replaced. The final treatment is the ground application. It is not forced into the ground that everybody is talking about this clay. That is one of the reasons we positioned these mounds here. They are upstream. This water drains from the southeast corner to the northwest corner. The ground water typically will flow along the same path. The water that they are concerned about the wetland pond has a liner in it so that nothing is leaching into the ground through that. The mound has what is called No. 23 sand. It is very uniform sand so that you have good flow characteristics when that water gets in there. It is dosed into there. So it is forced into there. None of this is gravity. There will be pumps all associated with this. There are multiple pumps so that again we have this redundancy so that if one of the pumps goes out it isn’t just sitting here. It has two recirculation pumps. It has five different mound pumps. Each of these mounds is zoned so that when one of the areas gets hit it rotates to the next mound, to the next system so that none of these areas gets dosed in the same day. None of these systems are set up to fail. The EPA loves this system because this system keeps all of the waste within the same subdivision. The cleanliness of this it’s going to look like prairie grass. This isn’t a septic mound with clarifiers. When you look at the wetland mound you are going to see wetland plants. Mr. Leeth stated one of the concerns was what is this going to be across the property line and what are the neighboring property owners going to look at. Mr. Boyer stated you are going to see first of all a berm because we don’t want surface water running into the wetland. Mr. Leeth stated this is not going to be a treatment plant where we have aerified treatment going on. In some systems packaged plants would be an aerified system where you have sludge fields here. We have a bed, the wetland cell, which is constructed with the liner and it is going to be native grass. It is going to look like a yard and within the treatment cell itself from the surface as you look at it’s going to have native plants over the surface of it and the treatment is actually taking place below ground. Mr. Boyer stated in the binder that was sent to you if you look at that I have a full set of plans in the back in the last half. If you flip through there you will see the wetland and what it looks like. We have standard plants that are all through there that are not a clarifier or any of these aerations that you have at a municipal treatment plant. Mr. Leeth stated the discussion we had in regard in to views is really in the wetland areas. From there the effluent after it has its five circulations through the treatment is then discharged back into the environment into a mound. And those mounds areas are in common area “D” and “E” which is the same common area that the treatment is taking place in the wetland cells. In the mound systems and the construction drawings show a series of ridges through the common areas that are sized in… Mr. Boyer stated they are about 53-feet wide just to let you get an idea. Mr. Leeth asked how tall are they. Mr. Boyer stated they are about four-feet. Mr. Leeth stated if I stand on my property line if I am one of these neighbors what am I going to see. Mr. Boyer stated you are going to see grass, a native grass. You will have a PVC inspection cap that is a four-inch size. We are talking about five acres and you are going to have about 20 inspection ports so that if there is any problem with that there is a scheduled maintenance to check those to see if there is any bacteria in those and any gray water. There is also an under drain between every one of these mounds so that there is no standing water. Also, to the east there is an under drain that runs all along the property so that if there is any standing water that was by the back of their fences it will be picked up via the underground.
Mr. Leeth stated I think it is important to know that if we had a traditional septic system for each of the 79 homes we would have conceivably the same kind of treatment times 79 in each of the backyards. This is a system that is environmentally responsible. This is the best technology for rural settings rather than having 79 ticking time bombs we have a system that can handle far more than what we have here under a management system that is going to take care of each of the septic tanks on each of these homes on the prescribed schedule, as well as the maintenance of the treatment cells to make sure that those are functioning as well. Mr. Leeth stated Mr. Miller at the State Health Department has reviewed this and there is a letter in you tab and material under No. 9 is the letter from the State Health Department regarding this system and the conditions attached to it. I would like to move on to some of the other questions. CR 725 W. was rebuilt by the County recently and there was a comment made to with regard to cars exceeding the speed limit. That is not a requirement to get a building permit if you buy one of the lots that these neighbors have that everyone complies with the speed limit. We all do that. It is part of our civic duty is to be safe as we travel. My point in regards to rebuilding of the road is we complain to our Highway Department that our road isn’t in good shape and the county comes and they fix the road. The road is good so the traveling public can then go faster. It is a double edge sword. You either have bad roads or speeding cars. The police department is stretched to enforce the laws. My personal experience there I didn’t see anyone speeding but I know it happens. It happens everywhere that we go and the only way that we can solve that is with traffic control and enhanced police. There was a comment concerning the clay soils and there was another gentleman who asked about percolation. Mr. Boyer stated before I would talk or address soil types I would prefer John McQuestion to talk about the specific soils. John McQuestion stated my company is Soil Solutions, 308 E. 316 N., Valparaiso. I spent an entire day with Mr. Lahaie out on the site talking about drainage, talking about all these things before the rest of the crowd is involved. I told Terry that we are going to have to do something besides putting a mound system in every back yard out here. Terry asked what we should do and I told him we think about water quality, we think about waste water quality and we think about how to get rid of these drainage issues. So, when we go to a cluster system and I think the big point that has been missed we treat the waste water. We actually clean this waste water up so what is coming out of this pretreatment units are these wetland cells is what is as clean as what is in Lake Michigan. If you are putting water into the soil that doesn’t have a whole bunch of suspended solids and a whole bunch of biological oxygen demands, essentially clean water, permeability’s are a lot better because you can move water through soil that doesn’t have a slurry mixed with it a lot more rapidly than you can an effluent that is full of suspended solids. The permeability that we essentially use here is two-tenths of a gallon per day per square foot of basil area. We are talking about essentially three cups of water per day per square foot of basil area of these mound systems along with the interior drainage around these mound systems. Mr. Boyer stated one of the questions asked is whether the system is big enough. The answer is yes. It meets all of the current requirements. It is bigger than what may otherwise need to be because by using some of this technology there is some down sizing factors that the State Department of Health relies on or allows. All of those were taken here. The system is bigger and it is more than what is needed for a subdivision of this size generating the gallons of waste water that this subdivision is going to produce. It has been reviewed and it has been approved by the Indiana State Department of Health. The water quality coming out of this system, the wetlands clean that water up. They remove bacteria that lives in the septic tank so part of the cleaning up of the water that you flush down the toilet occurs in the septic tank. Most of the solids are gone when it comes into the pump chamber. It is pumped to the wetlands. In the wetlands bacteria lives on the stone or the gravel that is in that wetland. As the water comes in, it is introduced in that wetland. Bacteria will eat the remaining nasty stuff in that water so that it will go out relatively clean. When it is clean and it is introduced into the soil it won’t plug the soil system. Another question was why are individual systems not being used on each one of these lots. Somebody mentioned that there are a lot of failing systems out here. That is exactly why you don’t want individual septics on each one of these lots. If you do you are going to have failing systems on probably too many of these lots. What happens when you have failing systems? What happens when you have individual septics on each lot, you start to really tax the resources at the county level. The County Health Department is taxed now with too many septic sites to inspect. Having the State do this and by not having individual septic systems on each lot you have removed some of that what might otherwise be a burden on the local level. You have flexibility in lot use. You don’t have to worry about trying to find a spot on the lot that is the best for the septic system. So one of the things that you do get are lots that sell and homeowners are able to build homes that they want on this so that you do get a complete subdivision. Someone mentioned that they have to pump their system almost every year. Pumping a system every year means you have a problem. You don’t want to have to do that. Those are some of the reasons that we don’t want to put individual systems on each lot. There was a question that came up about are there other systems like this. You have a list not every on that list that was handed out that the State has compiled since 1986. Those are only the ones that they started to file since 1986. There may by other ones that just don’t have those compiled. On that list not everyone is identical to this system. There are variations within those 51 that are on that list. There was a question about location of other systems in Porter County that the public can go and look at. This was a question at the meeting we had with the public. I don’t know if there are any other ones locally in Porter County like this. There others outside the State and there are others in Central Indiana, Southern Indiana, in the Lafayette area and in Northeast Indiana but they didn’t want to travel that far. I didn’t bother to list those but I would be more than happy to provide a list of systems and more than happy to answer any questions about system that are working and systems that are not working and what might be the reason why some systems are working and why some are not working. There was a statement that Porter County is a green county. One of the things with this system it is very green. The mound area is a very green area. It is four or five acres of grass of native vegetations. The wetlands have native plants growing in them. Commissioner Harper stated what about Fox Chase Farms. You have that listed on your list. Mr. Leeth stated Fox Chase Farms is a subdivision that has a similar system permitted through the same process. Mr. Boyer is of the opinion that it is a different system, a different technology. Mr. Boyer stated initially when Fox Chase Farms was permitted different technology was used. There have been problems at Fox Chase Farms. There has been a new system put in at Fox Chase Farms that is similar, still not identical, to this system. It is my understanding that the new system at Fox Chase Farms has once again allowed building and construction and home sales and added to the economy of Porter County. Mr. Leeth stated Mr. Boyer’s company was involved with the repair at Fox Chase Farms. Mr. Boyer stated we were involved with the repair at Fox Chase Farms and the new system that is out there. Mr. Leeth stated Mrs. Humphrey inquired about the aquifer. My client has been in touch with the well service that he has utilized in the past and we would anticipate that they would probably be utilized and called upon to drill and provide for the new wells within the subdivision. Rippe Well Service has provided a note to Mr. Lahaie that indicates in his opinion 79 new homes in the subdivision should have no affect on the surrounding wells in the area. There was some discussion with regards to feasibility studies and schools and school capacity. My client has been in touch and in contact with the school corporation. Their chief concern wasn’t school capacity. It was the radius or turnarounds in the cul-de-sacs in the road system so that they can maneuver their school buses for the collection of the school kids within the new subdivision. When he was made aware that our cul-de-sac’s were made 15-feet larger than Shorewood Forest he was satisfied with this development. There were some concerns about property taxes about property taxes and so forth. School corporations love subdivisions because the property taxes increase. I have provided to you the school systems feasibility study. It is a demographic review conducted by Indiana State University. That is tab 11 in the materials. With regards to the storm water and where is it going. As I indicated, we have designed our storm water system to collect through the very traditional gravity methods. I want to be perfectly clear that storm water and the sanitary system that Mr. Boyer is talking to you about are completely independent. The storm water does not infiltrate or make its way into the collection system just as a sanitary sewer system with municipality is not designed for that to happen. There is not any design infiltration of the storm water to makes its way into the treatment and the wetland systems. It is not going to find its way into the mounds and so forth. The storm water is collected through the variational means of gravity flow over the surface of the ground into the right-of-way, into the swales with catch basins and so forth to carry the water into the two retention ponds. That is the system. Mr. Badger has designed an entire drainage study with all the drainage calculations for each of the inlets and each of the pipes in the entire system. That is what DLZ is reviewing. We did not go into great detail tonight in our presentation with regards to storm water because we have asked you not to approve the subdivision tonight until you have the DLZ report. I don’t want to suggest to the public that we aren’t going to talk about it. As Mr. Breitzke indicated, we will come back at another meeting and if there are drainage concerns, if there are drainage issues I am confident that the public will be heard on the drainage issues. Mr. Breitzke stated will you at least address the concerns about the overflow of the ponds. Mr. Badger stated one of the things that I heard tonight is about how many people have had problems with their yards and water standing in their yards. How many people have actually changed the contours of their property. How many people have put swales in? How many people have put small detention ponds in their four or five acre tracts? I would suggest few if any. This property and the beauty of being able to have the septic areas in different locations pulls away all of the prohibited grading in an area that you had a septic area. I now can grade the whole lot. I would say that 99% of these lots have graded so that the back yards drain to behind inlets and the front yards drain to the right-of-way. We have worked with Kevin on this drainage and we have had it reviewed at least three or four times. We have actually added in low spots should there be overflows so that we have small swales that pull the water away should the inlets ever clog. They will drain towards the pond and not into the adjoining properties. Also, there are emergency overflows that have been designed so that none of this water will go towards any of the homes. All of this water goes out towards the north as it does existing. This water will be released at a much lower peak than it did off a farm field. A farm field depending upon when the water hits is a runoff nightmare. It is exposed soil. The water is channelizing to the furrows of the drainage swales and that water pulls away a lot of the top soil as most farmers know and so they try to put the furrows perpendicular to the contours or with the contours so that the water doesn’t just flow off that we have had problems that the real dirty water that comes off the fields and crosses the roads when it does cross over. We have two outlets to this subdivision and both are on the north side and both use systems that will reduce erosion. They are detailed in the plans. Should the mill pond ever overflow we have designed the road to handle an overflow route. Again, the design here is substantial. We have started the design of this in 2004 and the last time we have had a review of the drainage was in 2007. We extensively went to DAC and tried to the best of our ability to apply all of the comments and take care of all of the comments and personally I deal with DLZ down in Indianapolis all of the time and I look forward to dealing with DLZ on this as well. I don’t see us having many if any problems getting this review approved by them. Again, we have gone through the ordinance and looked at all the problems you can have. All of the inlets were designed for a ten year storm and the piping for a ten year storm and the ponds were designed for a one hundred year storm. We have what is called emergency routing. During a 500 year catastrophic event we have ways that this water will drain which won’t drain into anyone’s house. It will drain into and out of the ponds. These ponds are substantial. There are 14 acres of water in the two main ponds. I don’t know of any other development here in Porter County that has that kind of built ponds. These ponds also function for clean water, again, environmentally friendly. We have oversized the ponds. They are twelve feet deep, the two major ponds. The other small fifth pond on the north end is a minimum of eight-feet deep. The other pond is more of an aesthetic pond that is still being used as a routing so the water comes into the pond and then goes out of that pond. It is not meant for detention. It is really just used for routing. What that means is that it holds the water and it passes the water on down. We put inlets around the perimeter of where the contours show us that we have drainage. I do have a quad map here and I would be happy to let you take a look at this. You will see that the water drains from the southeast to the northwest. That is where our drainage is on these two blue lines where the current drainage goes through. Mr. Leeth stated I would like to talk about the concern that some of the neighbors had with regard to one entrance. I believe the concerns of the remonstrators about the one entrance is one where that entrance is focusing traffic to one particular point and that is off of CR 725 W. in this location. The concern of the public tonight is that we are concentrating the traffic in one spot. That is true. The concern however, of the one entrance isn’t, I don’t believe in the minds of the remonstrators, their concern is the amount of traffic in one spot. The concern that we have as a community with regard to only one entrance to service 79 lots has to do with the public safety of the residents within the subdivision and how can first responders get to this subdivision and the homes within it if this entrance is blocked by an automobile accident or if a tree has fallen across the road during a storm and there happens to be a lighting strike in the subdivision and fire has to respond or ambulance has to respond to the subdivision at the time the entranceway is blocked. By “ying” off the entryway we eliminate or reduce the possibility that this could happen. There are alternative methods for the emergency responders, the first responders, to gain access back to the subdivision through the original roadway when we split that roadway up. The purpose of doing the roadway split was for aesthetic purposes but there is also a very important public safety feature by doing that as well. That is the reason why as a Plan Commission you should be concerned with regard to the one entrance and we think that we have addressed that. I think the public as they comment to you their concern is that we are funneling the traffic to one spot. Your ordinance doesn’t have any requirements with regards to why or how many homes can come to one spot. If we had 179 lots and two entrances you would hear the same concerns with regard to the amount of traffic at one spot. The point is that the concern that you should have as a Planner with regard to only one entrance we have addressed with regard to the split entryway into the subdivision. as you can tell from the illustrations, he is trying to make a very bold statement with a very attractive entryway landscaping as well. There is also a question with regards to the berming along the perimeter of the subdivision and wouldn’t they like to look at the open field versus the berm. The berm is there to not buffer the open field. It is there to buffer the subdivisions home to home. That is something again with the perimeter open space that is part of the plan and one of the things that makes this a unique subdivision. The fire department has been provided with dry hydrants within the subdivision so that tanker trucks don’t necessarily need to gain access. They can pull for fire suppression purposes the water within the storm water management retention basins. There was a question with regards to the road to the north and why it stops. Again, I think you have seen in enough instances that is a requirement of your ordinance and it is there for a good reason. It is there for planning purposes. It is there for when and if that property to the north ever develops they can then hook into that roadway system and the traffic can route through their subdivision and through our subdivision and provide for that connectivity. It also eliminates the safety concerns with regards to the one entrance. The folks who spoke with concerns over drainage are actually in the southeast and they are higher than our subdivision. We actually accept their water and it flows through our subdivision and it is managed through our storm water management system. Lot size was one of the issues that came up. Our smallest lot is 35,119 square feet and that is 19% larger than the minimum size that we would be permitted to have under the open space ordinance for this subdivision. Many of the lots approach one acre and in fact many are larger than one acre. There is a whole area of different sizes. Mr. Hardesty talked about the value of land and the taxes that could flow from this. There are going to be increased services required of county government for this subdivision. There is every time any one of us builds a house in Porter County. We tax government and they tax us. We tax the services that are required by those services to the subdivision. That largely is going to be at least for Porter County itself, maintenance to the roads. The taxes, however, that are going to be generated from the subdivision are far greater than the open farm field taxes as you have now. With regards to possible smaller lots, I think that the answer is yes. There is the possibility for smaller lots. I indicated to you that we can go 19% smaller lots and that we can do it throughout. I believe the intensity bonus is available to this developer and he didn’t take advantage of that. Is that possible? I think the answer is yes but that is not the petition before you. Mr. Hardesty raised a question with regard to the conservancy district and what happens if what we built doesn’t work and how do we fix it financially. I am calling on Chris Janak to answer this concern. Chris Janak stated Mr. Hardesty had two questions. One was who was going to be responsible for this. Is it the rate payers or is it the developer who put the system in. The answer to that are the rate payers. The conservancy district acts like Valparaiso, Hobart or any other municipality just smaller. It has the same powers, the same rate making powers and it has the ability to tax as well to improve the system. In this case, what was approved by the Natural Resources Commission, DNR and I think even by the Porter County Soil and Water Conservancy District was a system that will be funded through the rate payers. Any operation and maintenance of this system will be done by rates and charges. It is not proposed to be done through taxes. Mr. Hardesty also asked who is included in the district and is he included. It will just be the folks in Avalon Estates. They will be responsible for it. We have come up with agreements that disclose exactly what type of sewer system they have and what their responsibilities are going to be. So there will full disclosure at the front end and it will be only those people. Is it possible later to expand the district? The answer to that is if people have failing septics and they want to come in and talk about that but that is not what is before you right now. Mr. Leeth stated there was a question about access to CR 350 N. We don’t have any access to the south. Our only public access to this entire 118 acres is out on CR 725 W. in the areas that we have shown here. There was a question with regard to why do we have an in why do we have an out. It is my understanding that the county felt that this was not large enough or wide enough for public access. So therefore we are coming through this rather large parcel to gain access to the overall subdivision. There were questions or concerns or statements on why don’t we have access on onto County Line Road. We don’t own that property and we don’t own any property abuts or provides access to County Line Road. Mr. Badger will address the cul-de-sac question that was raised by Mr. Simatovich. Mr. Badger stated he was asking why they wouldn’t have a very big backyard. He was pointing to their side yard. The lot is substantially deep. The cul-de-sac is there because we feel that is the best way to lay that out and people will be approaching the cul-de-sac and they will be able to drive into their drives without any problem. Their backyards abut each other and that is the way that was laid out. If you look at the two cul-de-sacs to the southeast you will see that all the backyards back up to one another. If you look at the contours of the property you will see that this is actually the lower area and so what we are doing is allowing the natural drainage to go down those same backyard swales. We have inlets all throughout those and the water drains through there. We like the way it lays out. Mr. Leeth stated his last question or concern was in regards to the condition of the county road, which of course the county has recently improved the county road and what happens when you have concrete trucks and lumber and all the construction traffic. Your subdivision control ordinance requires that my clients bond the condition of the road during construction. So, the road will be video taped in its condition assuming your approval. It will be video taped in its condition, memorialized and after construction if there is any damage to the road then that bond is available to pay for the fixing of the road and bring it back to the condition prior to construction at my client’s expense. The Rivera’s are concerned with their home that lies on the east side of CR 725 W. They were at our meeting with the neighbors two weeks ago and expressed that same concern. My clients indicated to them that they would be willing to landscape their front yard. We are willing to at the developers’ expense to provide the necessary screenings so that the lights are not cast into their home for any traffic enters or exits out onto the county road from Avalon Drive. At this time, Mr. Leeth provided to the Commission two photographs of their home. Their home is set back significantly more than any of the other homes in close proximity north and south to them so I think that also provides an additional opportunity for that buffering to their home. As you can tell from the drawing we are only talking about less than 200 feet of width here. We have moved it as far south as we possibly can to address that as best we can. There was an issue raised that had to do with the character of the community and the fact that we would be raising taxes. The only taxes that are going to be raised are the ones that are generated from these 118 acres. There are no additional taxes assessed outside of this. The tax rate for the conservancy district as Mr. Janak indicated lies wholly with the 188 acres. The conservancy district has the ability to tax property taxes but that is solely within the property boundary’s of Avalon Hills Subdivision. The character of this community in many respects is an example of no planning because when these homes were developed look at all the number of driveways we have all along CR 725 and along CR 350 and along County Line Road. We have driveway after driveway after driveway. There was no planning. Each one of those homes backs out onto the speedway that we have heard testimony with regards to all of these county roads. How does that happen? It happens because the traffic is conducive to a residential development a residential community. That is why these are classified as local roads. All of these homes were developed without any regard to the traffic situation on the county roads. They weren’t developed with regards to drainage. As Mr. Badger indicated there are a couple of aesthetic ponds in the area but there are no drainage ponds. All of those homes were developed without any regards to any of those issues and I dare say if we counted up those homes we would get pretty close to 79. Now we come along with a subdivision that is required to meet your subdivision control ordinance. We have all these rules, good ones that protect the community that manage the storm water in a professional manner, a system to treat the waste water. They are not your traditional septic systems, I grant you that. It is a subdivision that has come along that has the scrutiny of this public process and the experts of DLZ and all of the other professionals that you see on this side of the table to make sure that there is a quality planned development that is consistent with your ordinances, unlike the neighbors around us. Mrs. Humphrey’s concern was the double railroad track on the crossing and the trains that block the road. This might be a problem. Mr. Asher’s concern is on the study that was done by IUN and for reference he would like to refer to that study his self because it sounds like it is the opposite of what our study that was done here in Porter County and in Union Township. When Mr. Asher built his house he was told he had to have 10 acres of land.
Mr. Wetzel’s concerns are on the wells and the aquifer. Mr. Madrigal is concerned about the wildlife that is out there. Mr. Parker asked what is going to happen in five years when these professionals from Lebanon and Indianapolis, are they going to be here when our wells go bad. Mr. Leeth stated with regard to the railroad crossing this does not block the access to this subdivision. It is located over 1000 feet south of this development along CR 725 W. south of CR 350 N. CR 350 N. and the railroad right-of-way abut one another with the railroad being on the south side of the county road. Access to the subdivision out to the public roads they can go north. We have the same opportunity with leaving this subdivision as the neighbors do in the event that the railroad is blocked for an extended period of time. In regards to the school study that was conducted by Indiana State University. It is posted on the web. Mr. Asher indicated to you that it took him because of the county’s rules, ten acres to build his home. Here is why that is. He didn’t just like any of those other property owners along the county roads go through the subdivision review process. He did not have the review process for drainage the driveway which is one more driveway in a string of many that we are not proposing with this subdivision. The smaller frontage lots that you see dotting and surrounding this property on three sides were done under minor subdivision, frontage sell-offs years and years ago and again not providing for the planning. Mr. Badger stated concerning the mound systems, if you look at the plans in the back of your white binder you will see a survey that was prepared by Kroll and Sons and in that survey they picked up Mr. McQuestion’s soil borings and with that the soil was laid out. If you look at that you will see an area that is hatched. That is the lowest area and it also has some of the poorest soils. We did not want to put the septic system on the poorest soils. So since we did not want that we picked the areas that had the best soils to be able to do that. Since we were using pumps we didn’t mind that it was higher than the area that we put our ponds in, which you will notice are in the lowest areas. I am from Lebanon and my expertise is in hydrology and in septic systems and that is why I was brought in. Mr. Breitzke stated here is what I would like to put to the Board. Would you like to leave the public hearing opened and not discuss it tonight as a Board? When they come back we will still continue with our open public hearing. Mr. Detert stated I think that is a good idea. Commissioner Harper asked why no DLZ review. Mr. Thompson stated this application originally came in in November of 2004. The open space ordinance was approved in September of 2004 so they do have to follow the open space ordinance. The storm water ordinance was not passed until after this application was accepted and was going through the review process. The storm water ordinance was not approved until mid 2005. Commissioner Harper stated I think that the petitioner should notify all of the neighbors again at their expense and that the public hearing should stay open. Mr. Detert stated I agree with you. We have had a lot thrown at us tonight. We have a lot of testimony about the poor percolation, which they admit to. Somebody asked why there are green spots in the corners. They are there because that is the best soil that they could find to put a septic system in. I have some real reservations about this. We are talking about wells. We are not talking about municipal water. Mr. Leeth stated we don’t have a problem notifying the neighbors but can we do it by first class mail. Mr. Breitzke stated yes, I think that is acceptable. Mr. Read stated I have some questions that I would like to raise that I have been thinking about. Commissioner Harper stated why don’t we submit those questions in writing to the petitioner and ask them to get it back to us. Mr. Read stated I don’t want to bring up my points in writing. I have some concerns meeting the open space ordinance; traffic; our County Highway Engineer estimated 650 additional vehicles per day; surface drainage; main concern is they don’t meet the intent of the comprehensive plan.
Mr. Detert moved to table Case 07-P-17 to a date uncertain pending the DLZ report and that being passed back through DAC and all the information be given to the Plan Commissioner members in our required time of ten (10) days before the meeting and for the petitioner to notify the neighbors by first class mail. Mrs. Stevenson seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote. At this time, Don Plumb gave his report on Falling Waters. We had a conservancy board meeting and it was the general consensus of the home owners that we would go to this Exceptional Benefits Tax which is like a flat tax. It would be set up not to exceed $1750 per lot per year and that would be for every lot in the subdivision. If this does come to pass, it would be for 2007 payable in 2008. There has also been a committee set up to review the declaration of the covenants and restrictions to make them a little bit tighter to have controls through the Home Owners Association. In general the subdivision has been relatively cleaned up. They haven’t done any mowing in the right-of-ways and on the empty lots. The gates up front are still in a state of disrepair. They had to order parts when they were damaged by the vehicle that ran into the front gate. All of the reports have been submitted to IDEM as of up to May of this year. I have also reviewed them with a third party consultant who is not related to Falling Waters and he doesn’t live in the subdivision. He didn’t even know about Falling Waters. The treatment plant is operating very efficiently. There had been concerns about reports that were not filed. They turned out to be some Federal reports that Indiana modifies and then they supply it to the conservancy district. They had not supplied these forms. The forms were all filled in retroactively back to the beginning as of May of 07. They are current with all of the forms and I was told today that I will have June and July by Friday to review them. Mrs. Marshall asked is the money going to be used to retire the bond. Mr. Palm stated yes. Commissioner Harper stated it is my understanding that the ponds are not getting regularly treated. Mr. Palm stated yes they are. I live right next door to where the guy enters our pond to treat it. I had a conversation with the guy that is treating the lake. He said that there are weeds in there that have to be treated with a different kind of chemical and it is a very expensive chemical but it lasts for several years once it is treated. I spoke with Mr. Floramo on that and he told me to get some prices on it and we will come back and bring it up to the home owners as to whether we want to spend that kind of money.
Mr. Breitzke asked are the aerators operational. Mr. Read asked where do you stand on this full disclosure situation between what he advertises and what he really comes up with. Attorney McClure stated we were waiting to make sure they are going to have this change in the taxation of the conservancy district because before it was much more complicated disclosure. They had all kinds of variables. Now this is much less variable with caps. Once that is put in concrete, then this disclosure can basically say real easy, buy a lot you pay $1750. Commissioner Harper stated you need to get some dates and times as to when this is going to get done. Mr. Palm stated I have a meeting scheduled with Mike Cap this week too. Commissioner Harper stated what happens if this man sells and then we are back in this nightmare again. You have a window right now. You have a commitment and a window and I think they are dragging their feet and I don’t think they are doing it intentionally. I don’t think it is going to get done unless you get in and insist that it gets done. Mr. Detert stated the most important thing on my mind is to sell lots out there and that will get you guys out of some from some of this financial obligation. One of the things is that every time I come in there the guy with the pool is draining that water right on the main street. I think that looks like the devil. Mr. Palm stated I believe that there has been pressure put on him and it is in the process. Mr. Detert stated Bob mentioned to me that Pheasant Hills was bad at the last meeting. I went out the Friday after that meeting. That was a really bad day and I probably saw it at it’s very worse. The water was flowing everywhere and there were two houses that I sat and watched to make sure they didn’t get carried away in the flood. The drainage is pretty bad there. I tried to get on the agenda but the agenda was already sent out. I don’t know legally if we have any problems showing pictures tonight. At this time, Mr. Cole presented a power point presentation on the drainage problems at Pheasant Hills Subdivision. The Plan Commission had a discussion concerning the drainage at Pheasant Hills Subdivision. Commissioner Harper stated we must recognize that we are not doing our job. If we can’t recognize that then we can’t get to the next step. Mr. Breitzke stated we need to get the developer back to the Plan Commission at the next meeting. Mr. Detert stated we have to get the developer who is John Worstel back here and show him these pictures. Mr. Detert moved to have John Worstel, the developer of Pheasant Hills Subdivision, come back to the Plan Commission and show him the pictures and to discuss the drainage problems in this subdivision. Commissioner Harper seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Thompson stated we will be continuing our interviews tomorrow evening with the consultants for our corridor study and development plan. There being no further business the meeting adjourned at 11:20 p.m.
PORTER COUNTY
Attest: Robert W. Thompson Jr. AICP, Executive Director/County Planner |
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September 12, 2007