PORTER COUNTY PLAN COMMISSION

Regular Meeting
February 28, 2007

M I N U T E S

The regular meeting of the Porter County Plan Commission was held on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 at 6:30 p.m. in the Administrative Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Those members present were Rick Burns, Tim Cole, Robert Detert, Commissioner Bob Harper, Todd Hutson, Elizabeth Marshall, Herb Read, Rita Stevenson and Kevin Breitzke, President. Staff members present were Robert W. Thompson Jr., Attorney Ken Elwood and Patricia S. Gibson.

Mr. Breitzke stated in a moment we will be voting on a continuance that was requested by the developer for Arbor Lakes Estates Subdivision as they still don’t have the permission from Shorewood Utilities to hook up.

Mr. Breitzke asked if there was anyone in the audience here this evening for Stonewood Subdivision.

At this time, Mr. Thompson read a letter from Attorney Todd Leeth who is representing Arbor Lakes Estates. Attorney Leeth is asking for a continuance till the March 28, 2007 meeting.

Mr. Breitzke recommended that we table this case until they have the letter from the utility company in hand.

Mr. Burns moved to table Case 07-P-3 until the letter is in hand from the Shorewood Utility Company with First Class notification to the property owners in the required area. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Breitzke stated Stonewood Subdivision doesn’t have the Drainage Board complied with yet and that needs to be done prior to preliminary hearing.

Mr. Burns moved to table Case 07-P-7 until they appear before the Drainage Board with First Class notification to the property owners in the required area. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Old Business:

Findings of Fact: Case 06-P-21. The Farms at Chapel Ridge.


Commissioner Harper moved to accept the Findings of Fact for Case 06-P-21. Mrs. Marshall seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Approval of the Attorney’s contract.

Mr. Detert moved to approve the Plan Commission and BZA Attorney’s contract for the year 2007. Mr. Burns seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Case 07-FP-1. Petition of Brian and Glenn Franzen, 690 N. 50 W., Valparaiso, Indiana seeking secondary plat approval for Mary’s Quest Subdivision to be located at 690 N. 50 W., in Liberty Township. (To contain 2 lots on 7.29 acres. Property is zoned RR.)

Bill Rensberger represented Mr. Franzen, the owner of this parcel. Primary plat approved about one month ago. This is a 2 lot subdivision on 7.29 acres with a pond on the western portion of it. Rewording was made on the primary plat per the Boards suggestions. The Plan Commission attorney reviewed the new wording.

Mr. Read questioned the ownership of the open space and the cost of maintenance.

Mr. Rensberger stated half of the north part of the open space will actually be taxed to lot 1 and the south half will be taxed to lot 2. However, the notations on the plat clearly state that they both have equal use of all open space to enjoy it.

Mr. Read asked does the fifty foot buffer cover all of the conservation easement.

Mr. Rensberger stated no it doesn’t cover all of the easement. However, I could add that to the secondary plat.

Mr. Read stated I would like to have you add the note and as to the proper wording of the note I would steer you to Rich Hudson from the Bonar Group. They have a note that also deals with the ownership, which doesn’t apply for you. I would want this on the drawing.

Mr. Rensberger stated I will get with Rich and add this to the plat. He stated I do have notes on the plats and maybe that is what you are wanting.

Mr. Read stated this note is what I was looking for. Then this is okay.


Mr. Burns moved to approve Case 07-FP-1. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Case 07-FP-2. Petition of John Farabaugh, 3409 169th Court, Lansing, IL, seeking a replat of a major subdivision, Springwood Estates, being a replat of Lots 67 & 107, in Porter Township, Porter County, Indiana. (To contain 2 lots. Property is zoned RR.)

Mr. Breitzke stated I would just mention that Mr. Sekerez is passing around a plat. Last week I advised him that he needed a drainage easement down through the center of it. We were going back and forth with the draftsman and they got it resolved on the west side of lot 67. That is where our natural draw to the north of lot 107. So I asked him to bring this in.

Mrs. Marshall asked was this drainage easement put on at the request of the Drainage Board.

Mr. Breitzke stated no. It was done at my request.

Mr. Read stated going through the DAC minutes there were a number of issues raised, one being the surface runoff. One of the concerns were the possibility of building in this passageway, which might impede the runoff. Issues raised were usable area on each side of the hydric soils. Is that still an issue.

Mr. Breitzke stated no.

Mr. Hutson asked where are you putting the homes at on these lots.

Mr. Sekerez stated one house on lot 107 will probably be centered between the two lot line and the one on lot 67 will be placed on the northern side of the lot.

Mr. Burns asked what is the purpose of the replat.

Mr. Sekerez stated when this was originally plat there was one lot that was a little over 6 acres in size and there was a lot that was 1.3 acres. What we are trying to do is make two moderate sized lots.

Mr. Thompson stated the gentleman that is purchasing this call me and explained that he wanted to add this additional part on from lot 67 onto lot 107. The original building line for lot 107 is 97 feet and he didn’t want to build his house all the way back there. He wanted to be in uniform with everybody else around there instead of looking at the back of their house. I told him he needed to replat to get rid of that building line.

Mrs. Marshall moved to approve Case 07-FP-2. Mr. Burns seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Case 07-DP-1. Petition of St. Iakovos Greek Orthodox Church, 38 W. 700 N., Valparaiso, Indiana seeking development review for a new church complex, to be located at 38 W. 700 N., in Liberty Township, Porter County, Indiana. (Property is zoned R-1.)

Jim Perkins, Site Planner and Landscape Architect, is representing St. Iakovos Greek Orthodox Church. This is located on the southeast corner of CR 700 N. and CR 50 W. The entry will be off of CR 700 N. The Corps has delineated the wetlands on the site. We will be creating a new area of wetland. We are proposing a church and an administrative cultural center and a connecting link between the church and the administrative center. This here will be a low mowed grass area that will be mowed three or four times a year. There is also an area up here that will be the same. The rest is all prairie and wildflowers. We will be recycling the rain water on this site. We have a 5,000 gallon storage tank back in this area here and our roof water is directed to that storage area.

Mr. Read asked are you saying that all of the water will be retained detained on site.

Mr. Perkins stated no, we have a standpipe here and it goes into the ditch, which is existing and then there is an existing pipe under CR 50 W. That is the way it goes now.

Mr. Read stated I haven’t seen any drainage calculations on where the water enters the site from off site, if any, and what happens to it when it goes off site.

Mr. Perkins stated this went through DAC and they had it.

Mr. Thompson stated I have no idea what the petitioner has sent to the members. We tell them to send out the plans.

Mr. Read asked have you made any provision to preserve this green space that you were showing us.

Mr. Perkins stated a majority of this area north will be preserved. You are looking at 10 acres of 28 acres. There is another 18 acres. We don’t know what is going to go there yet.

Mr. Breitzke stated as far as I am concerned they are committed to this plan right now. They can’t really subdivide this without coming before this Board.


Mr. Read asked where do you stand with the State on the matter of the septic system.

Mr. Perkins stated we are talking over 200 people. We are in the process of obtaining State approval.

Mr. Read asked do you have any soil borings out there.

Mr. Perkins stated yes.

Mrs. Marshall stated it sounds to me like this is phase one of a continuing development of the property.

Mr. Perkins stated yes, I would say that.

Mrs. Marshall stated what do you anticipate the use of another building. What would that use be?

Father Jim Greanias stated I am the Pastor of St. Iakovos. It would be more of a gymnasium for small parties or small events.

Mr. Read stated getting back to some kind of assurance that his open space will be preserved and you are talking about enhancing the neighborhood, which I think preserving some of this area as open space and landscape is very good. What kind of commitment can you give that this will be done and not turned into some subdivision twenty or thirty years down the road.

Fr. Greanias stated we do have a master plan for what our desire would be as far as the use of the land. I would very much stress that our architect along with myself and our current Board understand the gift of God’s creation and His earth and that is the reason why we have the gray water system. We would be looking at an athletic field, baseball, soccer where kids could play. It is really too early to say. South of this we have talked about putting up town homes for senior citizens who are physically able to move around. The next building that we would want to go after would be the gym and the banquet facility type thing.

Mr. Breitzke stated should this be passed tonight one of our expectations is that you would agree to make this institutional zoning, therefore, it would have to be rezoned for a subdivision with the new ordinance.

Mr. Thompson stated we can ask them for a written commitment and have them record the commitment. We can have Attorney Elwood review the document and they would have to record it before any buildings are put up there. As far as landscaping


what Mr. Perkins is showing right there, if you want them to commit to what he is saying as far as the wild flowers and prairie and you want it limited to just those buildings for now you can ask them to commit to these things.

Mr. Breitzke stated I would like to see the drawing recorded.

Mr. Read stated I think that we should have you come back and have you and our attorney work on some kind of acceptable wording based upon what we have been talking about.

John Christos stated at this time we are only developing one-sixth of the property. Is there really as issue at this point to protect the green space?

Mr. Read stated yes. This is the time.

Mr. Christos asked why?

Mr. Read stated we are supposed to plan for the future.

Mr. Christos stated we already have eight or nine acres of land that we are not going to be able to touch because of setbacks and drainage and the wetlands. There are actually five wetlands on this property.

Mr. Read stated you can select which areas you want for this, but before I can approve anything here I would want a commitment wording worked out by our attorney and agreed to by the Church.

Mr. Christos asked are we not meeting the technical requirements of the ordinance.

Mr. Thompson stated the ordinance can require commitments by this Plan Commission for the approval of the development plan.

Mr. Burns stated there are some concerns out there with the neighbors at the BZA. There are no problems with the Church. Now we are talking about a gym, a school, townhouses and that kind of changes the area out there. That is all residential out there. You are talking about making a major development here and that is a concern for that area.

Mr. Christos stated by school we are talking about Sunday school and a language school a couple days a week. Everything else we are talking about are fifteen or twenty years from now or if we would do them.


Mr. Detert stated I think that Herb has raised some good points. He asked were there issues raised at DAC and do we know whether those issues have been satisfied.

Mr. Thompson stated the last issues that were raised is the fire department requested a dry hydrant for the pond and they agreed to it; show how far back the berm at CR 700 and CR 50 is from intersection. That is something we would have to see. Profile the entrance drive and they did do that. Approval by the fire chief for the connection and that was with the building and the standpipe design and they ran through that with Kevin.

Commissioner Harper stated we should not have drawings presented to us to sell a project that people don’t intend to live by. When someone comes and says, “This is our plan” and then we say will you commit to that plan and then they say, “Well no.” Don’t bring me this plan and stand up here and tell me all about all of this green space and everything. If you are not going to commit to it don’t tell me about it.

Mr. Detert asked is there anyone in the audience that was at the BZA meeting concerning this case.

At this time, there was a show of hands from the audience.

Mrs. Brandt, 66 W. 700 N. I have no problems with the church as a neighbor. My concern is light pollution.

Dan Wiatkowski, 45 W. 700 N. My concern is the traffic. I protest in having an entrance on CR 700. CR 50 W. is fine.

Stephanie Wicke, 171 W. 700 N. I have concern on the gray water and I would like a better understanding on what you call your gray water. I also have a concern on the traffic and whether they get the water and sewer.

Mr. Breitzke stated they are talking about the roof drainage.

Mr. Breitzke stated it is unlikely that they will get sewer and water down there. The approvals come from the State for the industrial and commercial.

Darrell Huber, 37 W. 700 N. Mr. Huber submitted pictures to the Plan Commission. I am concerned about the two foot culvert that goes across CR 700 N., which is five inches higher on the north side than it is on the south side.

Mrs. Marshall asked how deep is the pond.


Mr. Perkins stated 12 feet with fifteen or twenty feet of four to one slope.

Mrs. Marshall asked does the water that goes into this pond come from the entire property.

Mr. Perkins stated it comes from throughout this whole area and it all slopes down toward that.

Mrs. Marshall asked does the standpipe outlets into a road side ditch.

Mr. Perkins stated there is a major ditch along, CR 50, with a culvert underneath. Our standpipe is on this side and we go into a pipe onto this berm, which is the control element for the detention and then it goes across the gravel area and into that culvert.

Mrs. Marshall asked do you have any plans for that pond.

Mr. Perkins stated we are working with J.F. New to enhance it.

Mrs. Marshall stated I think we need to continue this.

Mrs. Marshall moved to continue Case 07-DP-1. Mr. Read seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

New Business:

At this time, Mr. Breitzke read the rules of conduct for a public hearing.

Case 07-P-5. Petition of St. Andrews LLC, P.O. Box 300, Calumet City, IL, seeking primary plat approval for St. Andrews Subdivision, to be located East of Meridian Road and on the South side of CR 900 N. in Liberty Township, Porter County, Indiana. (To contain 43 lots on 29.15 acres. Property is zoned R-1.)

Todd Etzler is here tonight representing St. Andrews LLC. This is a 21.5 acre parcel on the south side of CR 900 N. This is zoned R-1 and will have 41 lots plus two outlots, Outlot A and Outlot B. One of the outlots will contain our detention pond. The lots range from 11,000 square feet to about 18,600 square feet. The property around the subdivision is also zoned R-1. Timberland Subdivision is to the west. The property is accessed off of two roads, CR 900 N., Dunhill Dr. and St. Andrews Dr. We are dedicating right-of-way along CR 900 N. The roads in the subdivision will have curb and gutter throughout and sidewalks


also. There are two stubs of St. Andrews Drive and Dunhill Drive that come down to the south. This land here is a NIPSCO easement. We have obtained permission from NIPSCO to extend these roads through that easement to this property to the south. The property is serviced by water and sanitary sewer, Indiana American Water Company and Damon Run Conservancy District. There is no well and septic on this property. The drainage slopes from the southeast to the northwest and that is why we put our pond at this end of the property. The pond is about.9 acres. Through the system of pipes and swales throughout the subdivision pipes within the roads and swales around the back of the lots the water will travel through the subdivision and into the pond. The pond will outlet when it receives enough water into an unnamed tributary of Damon Run. There will be some extensive work that is going to be some improvements done to this ditch as it runs along the outside. Along CR 900 N. there will be some swales put together. Damon Run Conservancy District has agreed to the control of the drainage storm water through this property. We will include in the swale the best management practices for storm water. Those are practices that help slow down the water as it is running through the swale and also to clean the water. A couple of things that will be happening are every one hundred feet we will have a rock placed of a ten foot by ten foot of river rock and one foot deep so that the water can come through there and it slows it down, churns it up and aerates it and cleans out some of the soils. It will be landscaped with green grass and also native landscape plants. The swale will also include some mild bends in it so the water doesn’t rush straight through a straight swales. In the pond itself, there are forebays on both sides. In these forebays we will have a similar type action with the storm water. This will be a wet-bottom pond so it detains water. When it gets to a certain height it goes over some more river rock down into the Damon Run. The ditch is already part of Timberland Subdivision and this simply adds that into the maintenance program. We will have a Property Owners Association that will take care of this but also in addition to the Property Owners Association we will be dealing with the Damon Run Conservancy District to make sure that the water continues to run appropriately through the subdivision. We are required to dedicate open space in this subdivision. Under this we have 21.45 acres of land. That requires 4.29 acres of open space. In Outlot B and Outlot A we have 4.4 acres of open space and that excludes the .9 acres of pond. Outlot B will be that open space and portions of Outlot A will be that open space. If it isn’t on the plat, we will make sure it gets on the plat. These two outlots will be maintained by a Property Owners Association. They will maintain the storm water and also these two open spaces. This is also one of the first projects that has gone through the County’s engineer review process.


J. F. Schrader, 978 Meridian Road. Mr. Schrader is concerned on the density, drainage, sewers and sump pump discharge. Is there a Drainage Board report? He is concerned also with the soils on this property. Will Damon Run accept the water?

Valerie Drummond, 138 W. 850 N. At this time, Mrs. Drummond submitted pictures. Mrs. Drummond’s concerns are with drainage.

Stephanie Wicke, 171 W. 700 N. Ms. Wicke is concerned with the soil types, the maintenance of the ditch and whether they received approval from the Drainage Board.

Peggy Kudyker, 847 N. 200 W. Mrs. Kudyker agrees with what everyone else has said.

David Drummond, 138 W. 80 N. Mr. Drummond is concerned with the drainage.

Mr. Etzler stated this is zoned R-1 and all the property around it is zoned R-1 and the County has indicated that this is an appropriate density for a subdivision in this type area. As for having the city sewers not including the rain water and things like that this is a requirement by law that the municipalities and the conservancy districts are not permitted to take rain water into their system. This is the way we engineered this and the reason we have storm water facilities within this subdivision to handle the storm water and rain water that comes off of the roofs. The Damon Run Conservancy District is an entity that is formed under State law. The property owners within that area are part of the Conservancy District. They are members and they vote people onto the Board of the Conservancy District. We did go through the Drainage Board. This drainage has also been reviewed by DLZ over a period of time. With all construction on ditches the Army Corps of Engineers has their opportunity to take a look at that and determine whether they have any jurisdiction. If they don’t or even if at the same time Indiana of Department of Environmental Management has the opportunity to take a look at that. There is a process for moving ditches that requires notice to the people around the out skirts of those ditches and that process will be followed and that is part of the construction phase of this subdivision.

Mr. Breitzke asked do you have any information on the Conservancy District.

Mr. Etzler stated as far as the people on it, I don’t know who they are.


Mr. Thompson stated under State Statute with the courts, the Porter County Courts set it up. The people that are in the conservancy districts have to own land within the district boundaries. The main principal is Bernie Madje and he is also the developer of Timberland. His term and his position is up for election on February 11. Jack Barko is another member of the conservancy district and his term is up on February of 2010 and I a lady by the name of Jennifer and her term is up in February of 2009.

Mr. Etzler stated the conservancy district has annual meetings and actually they have more than annual meetings. They have quarterly throughout the year. They hire an engineering firm to assist them in the engineering aspect of everything that they do. They also often hire an executive director and I don’t know if Damon Run has an executive director on staff.

Mr. Schrader stated he didn’t answer my questions. This land was agricultural just six months ago and now it is R-1. Mr. Schrader is concerned about the storm water. You can’t put storm water in sewage water.

Ms. Wicke asked did they get Drainage Board approval. I am still concerned about the issue of the soils. I am asking the Board if nothing else when you look at this you would at least require them to have the County’s minimum requirements of easement on both side of the drainage ditch to Damon Run so that you can maintain it if you have to come out there.

Mr. Etzler stated this property has been R-1 forever. It has been R-1 for quite awhile and it has been farmed. The Drainage Board knew we were doing a POA and that was one of the requirements that we had a POA that took care of this detention area.

Mr. Breitzke stated I should clarify that the Drainage Board does not take care of the water quality elements of these things. Since we introduced open space we declared that the POA’s take care of those amenities. The Drainage Board’s function is to make sure there is no more drainage and by State law they still have the facility if there is an obstruction even if the ditch isn’t regulated. We go in and clear out the obstruction and charge the property owner.

Matt Keiser stated there are no wetlands on this property. The only inventory that is on there is a stream, which is under jurisdiction of the Army Corps. I did speak to John Richy of the Army Corps of Engineers South Bend office who has jurisdiction over this. His ideas to us was some of the best manager practices


that were included in this. We are putting some bends on the stream, putting in river rock every 100 feet. We would prefer to get the permits after it has gone through review by this Board. The drain that is currently there is on CR 900 N. right-of-way. The Highway Department has asked us to move that for safety reasons. That is the reason it is being moved. The fluvaquent soils is identified off of a 1940 and 1950’s aerial photography. They are not soil borings. They are not accurate and have been proven time and time again that they are not adequate depictions of the soils that are on the sites.

Mr. Etzler stated the embankment on the pond has a five in one slope.

The public hearing was then closed.

Mr. Burns asked what is the capacity of Damon Run sewer.

Mr. Keiser stated I don’t think we can actually speak to the actual capacity of it.

Mr. Burns asked can they accept this.

Mr. Keiser stated yes.

Mr. Detert stated I did look at your covenants and I don’t agree with your attorney’s fees on the remediation on people who don’t follow the covenants. You give it to the developer or whoever is in authority. You did not give that same thing to the people who live there. It bothers me to put something on CR 900 N.

Mr. Hutson asked what soil types do you have on lots 39, 40 and 41.

Mr. Keiser stated we don’t know.

Mr. Hutson asked on Outlot A what do you plan on having on it.

Mr. Keiser stated we plan on putting cardinal grass and arrowhead.

Mr. Hutson asked how do we get over to the maintenance. How do we get to Outlot A.

Mr. Keiser stated there are two ways. There is a stretch of 300 to 400 feet along CR 900 N. and then also at the western entrance there is approximately 150 feet of access to it.


Mr. Hutson asked what is going to be on Outlot B.

Mr. Keiser stated we want to leave it the way it is now as open space.

Mr. Hutson stated there is a landowner to the northeast. Have they said anything about this development at all.

Mr. Keiser stated we have heard nothing.

Mr. Hutson stated are there native trees that hang over on the property on the west.

Mr. Keiser stated that is part of Timberland and it is the tree line.

Mr. Hutson stated I am a little concerned about your soil types.

Mr. Keiser stated we aren’t concerned about those. It has been farmed a long time.

Mr. Hutson asked there is no chance for anything from Outlot B draining onto that property to the north.

Mr. Keiser stated actually the grading of it right now there is a low end to the furthest east that does still run off to there. This is not Damon Run. This is the tributary to Damon Run and that runs up to CR 900 N. runs east and then turns almost right off of our site after it crosses underneath that culvert to that house and then runs southwest. All of that water from that area now drains directly to the ditch.

Mrs. Stevenson stated I have an issue with Damon Run Conservancy District. How are we guaranteed that this is going to be taken care before a new subdivision is put in. How do we know it is going to be cleaned out and it seems like it is going to be an ongoing issue.

Mr. Keiser asked which portion are you talking about.

Mrs. Stevenson stated where the pictures are showing.

Mr. Keiser stated at CR 900 N. and Meridian.

Mrs. Stevenson stated yes.

Mr. Keiser stated that has already been taken care of.



Mr. Keiser stated when Timberland came to the Plan Commission one of things that was being asked for at the beginning was the relocation of that ditch around the perimeter of the property. At this Boards discretion, they have asked us to leave that intact and to not move, fill or do anything to that terrain that runs through Timberland. The only impacts allowed by Army Corps and IDEM through a permitting process was to put in box culverts at the three road crossings in that subdivision. It will be an ongoing maintenance that is charged to the Damon Run Conservancy District.

Mrs. Stevenson asked does someone need to police it to see that it gets done.

Mr. Keiser stated the County does that for all the ditches within the entire county.

Mr. Cole stated you still need a permit to move the stream. Do you have that in hand?

Mr. Keiser stated no.

Mr. Cole stated I know they’ve talked about it. Have you talked about it with the DNR?

Mr. Etzler stated not with the DNR but with Army Corps.

Mr. Cole asked did they mention that you are going to need a permit.

Mr. Etzler stated yes. We know we need a permit but we don’t know if the ditch is going to be relocated.

Mr. Cole stated I think we do need to know what the soils are on lots 39, 40 and 41. The Damon Run Conservancy have to have meetings and they have to be publicly announced. Election of course, if the terms are existing it would be 2009 and they’re probably not going to have any elections but I would certainly encourage quarterly meetings so that the property owners as they come in to their property they would get acquainted with the Conservancy District. The principals need to be known. I need to know that information before I feel comfortable with this subdivision.

Mr. Keiser stated the Damon Run Conservancy Districts principals have been turned over to the County.

Mr. Etzler stated the conservancy district is a public entity and has public needs.


Mr. Cole stated I want Jennifer’s last name, their addresses and their phone numbers. I would also like a slate of their meetings.

Mr. Etzler stated Bill Ferngren is the attorney for the conservancy district.

Mr. Keiser stated Jennifer’s last name is Beauchamps and I believe that they meet once a month and it is announced.

Mr. Read asked is Damon Run as it goes through Timberland a regulated drain.

Mr. Breitzke stated no.

Mr. Read asked what is your opinion as far as whether or not this segment that runs parallel to the road should be a regulated drain.

Mr. Breitzke stated most regulated drains were court ordered drains by neighbors getting together who agreed to give large easements and right of entry to the Drainage Boards for cooperative to maintain the drainage. If you just step in and say that you want to make this a regulated drain without the agreement of all the property owners chances are you are going to find yourself in court because it is a condemnation without reiteration. You’re taking easements. In the case of a subdivision, we use that opportunity to start linking things together. They are so distant and already there is development all throughout Rugeville Manor as you go further west that we don’t have any easements and we have people that already own all the way back into Damon Run and use it such as it is.

Mr. Read asked are you saying that you don’t think this would be suitable for a regulated drain. Just that portion.

Mr. Breitzke stated I think that portion because they do have a conservancy district and it is one of the things that they can do affectively.

Mr. Read asked who would clean out the basins.

Mr. Etzler stated the POA.

Mr. Read stated these forebays, I assume, are not suitable for people to walk on or in if they are full of sediment. There is a rock perimeter around it. So I assume you want to keep people off and not through or in these forebays. Are you going to post some signs?


Mr. Etzler stated the signs are shown on the drawings. We were also requested to put a five foot walking path around the perimeter.

Mr. Read stated the open space ordinance talks about the circumference of the facility. Is the high water mark your circumference?

Mr. Keiser stated there is a normal pool elevation and then a 100 year flood elevation.

Mr. Breitzke asked could you put an easement along lots 39, 40 and 41.

Mr. Keiser stated yes we can do that.

Mr. Read stated that means you are going to have to provide at least 25 feet around the south forebay. If you provide along lot 39, 40 and 41 a minimum of 25 feet from the edge of the rocks and the people who buy those lots have to have that identified that this is a walking easement.

Mr. Keiser stated I think we can commit to that.

Mr. Cole asked is it normal to put the walking path in the covenants that it would be maintain simply as a pathway.

Mr. Breitzke stated it doesn’t hurt anything.

Mr. Cole stated the reason I put it in there is because kids will be riding their bikes. You might want to allow bikes in that or at least encourage the property owners through the covenants to allow bikes along that path.

Mr. Etzler stated we will commit to that.

Mrs. Marshall stated I am unimpressed with the letter from the Damon Run Conservancy that they are going to service your subdivision. I am disappointed in DLZ also. On this drainage area where this emergency overflow swale is you have a 20 foot long by 33 foot wide line with 6 inch rip rap. Do you want me to believe that all the water that is going to come down there that you are going to put it through that little emergency swale.

Mr. Keiser stated that is actually designed out of the manual that was distributed by Porter County. That is the guidelines that we were given to design our emergency overflow. We were given this right out of the ordinance. This is what it has to meet. That is sized for the contributing area with a 100


year storm flowing through it. I ran the calculation originally and my calculations had this as a smaller area.

Mrs. Marshall stated I want to talk about DLZ. I don’t think their report is complete. At this time, Mrs. Marshall read from the DLZ report. This report is basically nothing. It doesn’t tell you anything. I would also like to talk about the road across the NIPSCO right-of-way. Is that a fee simple or is that an easement.

Mr. Etzler stated that is fee. They own it.

Mrs. Marshall asked do you have a letter from them.

Mr. Etzler stated yes we do.

Mrs. Marshall asked do you realize how many snowmobile’s, dirt bikes riders, four wheelers that are going to go down there?

Mr. Keiser stated the idea of behind putting the roads down now I believe was something that was talked about at the very beginning with the Highway Department. When this property was all one owner and when the NIPSCO easement went through NIPSCO came in and asked everyone to buy their property. Some sold some didn’t. Some gave right-of-way easements. Mr. Essmen gave them a right-of-way with the deed restriction that two road access’s could be put in if this were ever subdivided. The idea is to get those roads in when this gets subdivided rather than have those right-of-ways dedicated with no improvement on it. If something does happen in the future then how do you get the next person who is going to do it to have to put in those roadways when they may not need them.

Mrs. Marshall stated back in 2003 we have a report from the Plan Commission where Mr. Dzur was promised that they would clean several hundred feet of the ditch through Mr. Dzur’s property. You can say it belongs to someone else, however, when you buy land then if you become the owner then all of the things that were on this property the new owner becomes the successor and he has to do those things. I don’t think Mr. Dzur has had his ditch cleaned. I think that we need to go back and promises that were made at public meetings should be followed through. Also, I don’t think taking water to the property line and dumping it is not good enough. I don’t see a watershed delineation of what goes in here or what you based your calculations on. We are lacking some information here and if you move that ditch to the south then are you going to loose the three lots up there.

Mr. Keiser stated that ditch is shown where it will be relocated to. So we won’t loose any lots over there.

Mrs. Marshall asked what will the setbacks be.

Mr. Keiser stated yes. We looked at where the easements we at. Actually those were what were used to design the subdivision as it went down to the south.

Mrs. Marshall asked where is the water going to go when it gets down to the corner there.

Mr. Keiser stated this should be in the drainage narrative. It is in Appendix A.

Mrs. Marshall stated I also have a safety concern around the pond.

Mr. Keiser stated there is a safety shelf that was put in at DLZ’s recommendation.

Commissioner Harper stated DLZ told us when they first started that they do several reviews and I think that they did a wonderful and thorough review of this plan. At this time, Commissioner Harper went through DLZ’s review.

Mr. Breitzke stated I think that they did a good job too.

Mr. Hutson asked who is responsible for the maintenance of the detention ponds and the forebays.

Mr. Keiser stated Damon Run Conservancy and the POA.

Mr. Detert stated I think that DLZ should be here at our meetings. I am also concerned about the sump pump discharge. I am thinking we need to look at burying some pipe or something to get it to the rear yard drainage and to the swales.

At this time, the Commission had a discussion regarding sump pump discharge.

Mr. Burns moved to approve Case 07-P-5 with the understanding that when they come back for secondary plat that they take care of some of the problems that we have raised; that they know all the issues that they have to address particularly with the Conservancy District and add the language in the covenants regarding the attorney. Mr. Hutson seconded the motion, which carried on the following ballot vote:

Burns - Yes Cole - Yes Detert - Yes
Harper - Yes Hutson - Yes Marshall - Yes
Read - Yes Stevenson - Yes Breitzke - Yes


Attorney Elwood stated we had a discussion in an Executive Session on a proposed settlement for the North Star Stone litigation. I would like a motion if you so chose to approve that settlement based upon this written commitment sheet.

Mr. Detert moved to approve the settlement for the North Star Stone litigation. Mr. Burns seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

There being no further business the meeting adjourned at 10:10 p.m.

PORTER COUNTY
PLAN COMMISSION


S/ Kevin D. Breitzke, President

Attest: Robert W. Thompson Jr. AICP, Executive Director/County Planner