PORTER COUNTY PLAN COMMISSION

Regular Meeting
June 9, 2004

M I N U T E S

The regular meeting of the Porter County Plan Commission was held on Wednesday, June 9, 2004 at 6:30 p.m. in the County Administrative Center, 155 Indiana Ave., Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Those members present were Eric Biddinger, Mike Bucko, Robert Detert, Commissioner Bob Harper, Frank Mahnic, Bob Poparad, Mike Sheetz and Kevin Breitzke, President. Those members absent were Rick Burns. Staff members present were Robert Thompson Jr., Patricia Gibson, Fred Siminski and Attorney Lily Schaefer.

Mr. Mahnic moved to waive the reading of the May 12, 2004 minutes and approve them as received in the mail. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Mahnic moved to waive the reading of the May 26, 2004 minutes and approve them as received in the mail. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Pending Business:

Case 04-P-1. Petition of Preferred Builders, c/o Ralph Affeld, P.O. Box 1578, Valparaiso, Indiana seeking primary plat approval for Vernon Woods Subdivision to be located on the North side of CR 550 N. between CR 50 W. and CR 175 W. in Center Township, Porter County, Indiana. (To contain 25 lots on 38 acres. Property is zoned R-1.)(Discussion on pending litigation.)

Mr. Thompson stated everybody has a copy of the settlement agreement in front of them. He stated the County Commissioners went into an executive session at their last meeting on Tuesday. He stated the County Attorney has reviewed this agreement and has approved the language within this agreement.

Mr. Poparad asked if the Plan Commission attorney has looked at this agreement.

Attorney Schaefer stated she has looked at this agreement.

Commissioner Harper moved to approve the settlement agreement between the County Attorney and Preferred Builders. Mr. Detert seconded the motion.



Discussion:

Mr. Mahnic stated he has a question on the motion. He stated in here it says "Approval of the Amendment" "the Plan Commission has and does hereby grant primary plat approval." He asked if this was granted with this agreement.

Mr. Breitzke stated this is correct.

Mr. Mahnic stated therefore is a motion necessary…

Attorney Schaefer stated it is a motion to approve the settlement agreement is the appropriate thing to do.

Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Case 04-FP-4. Petition of Liberty Lake Estates, LLC, 640 W. 100 N., Valparaiso, Indiana seeking a replat for Liberty Lakes Estates (Kingsley Manor) Located on the south side of CR 100 N., between CR 600 W. and CR 750 W. in Union Township, Porter County, Indiana. (To contain 38 lots on 78 acres. Property is zoned RR.)

Eli Rosario stated he lives at 136 N. Timber Pointe Court, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Mark Nevel stated he lives at 3028 Brampton Lane, Dyer, Indiana.

Mr. Rosario stated what they are presenting is a replat of Kingsley Manor Subdivision that is on 640 W. 100 N. in Union Township. He stated they propose no changes to the subdivision just simply change the name, change the streets, change the lake name and the opportunity to adjust the covenants and resale the subdivision.

Mr. Detert asked if they are changing the square footage of the homes to be built.

Mr. Rosario stated yes. He stated on the original plat the original covenants required 6000 square foot minimum for two stories. He stated they are actually reducing this to 3000 square foot for two stories and 2400 for a ranch.


Mr. Mahnic stated basically the replat is a change in names. He stated nothing significant as far as the layout from the original.

Mr. Rosario stated that is correct.

Mr. Thompson stated he would like to explain to the Commission how this came about. He stated Mr. Nevel approached him and said they were going to change the street names out there. He stated he explained to him the procedure that they must go through with changing the street names the recommendation from the Plan Commission onto the County Commissioners and changing it that way. He stated when he sent him the listing he saw that they were changing the name from Kingsley Manor to Liberty Lakes he called them and asked what else were they changing. He stated when they mentioned that they were going to be changing the covenants and restrictions he told them that they needed to go through the replat process. He stated the only things that they are changing are their street names, the names of the lakes, the name of the subdivision and the covenant and restrictions.

Mr. Detert asked if they had a copy of them.

Mr. Rosario stated he has a copy with him.

Mr. Detert stated over the years he has been told as a Plan Commission member that he has no business making comments or doing anything with the covenants. He stated he has one problem and that is if the organization wants to take action against someone, lawful action, that not allow to other covenants there is leverage in these covenants that would say the only one that can recoup attorneys damages was the developer. He stated he objects to that. He stated he doesn't think that this is fair when that language is incorporated in there. He stated he doesn't think it is fair to the lot owners and he thinks that as a Commission member he feels obligated to stand up for the people in Porter County. He stated yet he is constantly told he has no business or input on the covenants. He stated this is his feeling. He stated he doesn't like a one sided agreement in the covenants. He stated he hasn't looked at these covenants yet and he doesn't know what they have in there.


Mr. Rosario stated he doesn't believe Mr. Detert will find a statement in that format in his covenants.

Mr. Bucko stated he thinks he remembers this subdivision back in 1992 or 1993 or 1994. He stated when a subdivision that has been around that long is replatted and comes before us in this manner and there has been changes to the subdivision ordinance between the time that this was first granted and today are they required to meet those ordinances changes if there is any improvements or any changes to the ordinance that may not have been in affect when it was granted. He asked would this apply to them today.

Mr. Thompson stated our codes call for following the 90-3 Ordinance, which is the engineering on the development of infrastructure. He stated the infrastructure out here is already in except for the finish coat. He stated if this is approved he would like that a recommendation be made that they enter into the agreement with the County Commissioners and work with the County Engineer for posting a performance guarantee because there still needs to be a seal coat put on the asphalt and there was some places where damage was done on the binder coat where there might be some base failure that we would like investigated and repaired and some cleaning of the roads and some erosion control issues. He stated in 1994 is when the Subdivision Control Ordinance was changed and he doesn't know if there is anything within that Subdivision Control Ordinance that would affect this.

Mr. Breitzke stated he would like to point out that these are private streets and he would really like to emphasize that from TAC they felt strongly there should be a performance bond for erosion control because of the steep slopes that they do have for both their protection and the for the publics protection and for completion of the final coat of asphalt.

Mr. Rosario stated we don't have a problem with providing a performance bond and they have already engaged a paving company to do that.

Mr. Mahnic moved to approve Case 04-FP-4 for replat with the performance bond. Mr. Sheetz seconded the motion.


Discussion:

Mr. Breitzke stated there were still some Health Department issues on some of these lots. He stated bear in mind that this is already an approved platted final subdivision. He stated this has been an ongoing thing and could affect some of the lots and the petitioner understands that today and they are working things out.

Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Case 04-MP-1. Petition of the Porter County Plan Commission, 155 Indiana Ave., Suite 304, Valparaiso, Indiana for opening of the detailed work plans submitted by the consultants for the purpose of updating the Porter County Master Plan.

Mr. Thompson stated there are two submittals to the scope of work that was sent out. He stated a third company, Duncan Associates has sent in a letter saying they will not respond. He stated he has set for the next meeting a public hearing based on these proposals that have been submitted. He stated tonight he was just planning on opening these boxes and handing out the proposals to the members. He stated there will be a copy available for the viewing of the public in the Plan Commission office. At this time, Mr. Thompson distributed the submittals to the members.

Commissioner Harper asked Mr. Thompson to explain why the one pulled out.

At this time, Mr. Thompson read a letter from Duncan & Associates.

Case 04-SE-5. Inspection Committee Report for Vertical RealEstate, c/o CIS Communications, 165 N. Meramec, Suite 400, St. Louis, MO, for a Special Exception to permit a 180-foot monopole wireless communications facility to be located at 178 S. 675 W. in Porter Township, Porter County, Indiana.

At this time, Mr. Thompson read the Inspection Committee Report.



Mr. Bucko stated at CR 275 W., which is 123rd Ave. in Lake County, approximately 1½ miles to 2 miles almost straight west of this site there was a new tower put in place by T-Mobile. He stated just recently the facility that is the water tower inside Lakes of the Four Seasons has allowed T-Mobile to also put facilities on top of that water tower and that is probably 1½ miles from this site. He stated there has been a request from someone from Falling Waters to build a monopole tower to be built in close relationship to this facility because of different type of equipment that needs to be placed to serve the waste treatment and water services to that community of some 400 homes. He stated he happens to know that the water tower in Lakes of the Four Seasons has space available on it. He stated they are renting space on that tower. He asked if these people are looking for space or are they just popping up another tower to be able to sell it off to someone else.

Mr. Detert stated on behalf of the BZA they get into that pretty heavily. He stated we look at the coverage area. He stated there are a lot of towers and we still have poor service out our way. He stated he doesn't know if the solution is to put up another tower.

Mr. Mahnic moved to forward Case 04-SE-5 to the Board of Zoning Appeals. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Public Hearing:

At this time, Mr. Breitzke read the rules of conduct for a public hearing.

Case 04-M-3. Petition of the Porter County Plan Commission, 155 Indiana Ave., Suite 304, Valparaiso, Indiana for a proposed amendment to Ordinance 97-37, Chapter 17 (Zoning) relating to Open Space/Green Space.

Mr. Thompson stated this is a proposed ordinance that will affect only the unincorporated area of Porter County. He stated there are copies of the proposed ordinance on the table for anyone who would like a copy. At this time, Mr. Thompson read the purpose and intent of the Open Space/Green Space Ordinance. Mr. Thompson stated as he

reads through this ordinance you will be hearing a lot about developed open space and undeveloped open space. At this time, Mr. Thompson read the definition of developed and undeveloped open space. Mr. Thompson gave a short summary of each section of the proposed Open Space/Green Space Ordinance. Mr. Thompson stated he did some research and the Plan Commission members have a listing of some summaries of other communities or counties that do have open space requirements or do not have open space requirements. He stated he also wants to point out that he has a 1959 Master Plan map from Porter County adopting the first Master Plan. He stated that was in November of 1959 that did show park designations on the map. He stated he doesn't know the exact year that this was taken out of the Master Plan. He stated he doesn't know if that was in 1974 or 1983 revision. (Copy of Ordinance is at the end of minutes.)

The public hearing was then opened.

Dorothy Graden stated she lives at 2600 Camilla Dr., Valparaiso. She stated she is speaking in favor of the mandatory 20% green space for each new development. She stated communities all over the United States are incorporating green space and even creating wetland areas when new subdivisions are built. She stated if you go up into the northern suburbs of Chicago you will see that communities have done this because they value the importance of these spaces. She stated we use drive-thru windows at banks and restaurants, pay at the pump at gas stations and we are contributing to society of lonely isolated individuals. She stated a green space in a community creates community building. She stated parents have opportunity to gather together and meet other people in their neighborhood. She stated children have a neutral ground to play on rather than being at his yard or her yard or his or her recreation room playing video games. She stated green spaces give children a place to use their imaginations and to exercise. She stated she teaches school here in Valparaiso and every year we have a Grandparent's Day. She stated the children present their grandparents with a paper that is entitled "My Grandparents are special because." She stated every year a large percentage of the children answer, "I love my Grandpa or Grandma because he or she takes me to the park." She stated green spaces are vital to a healthy and happy


community. She stated they offer amenities and bring buyers
into the neighborhoods. She stated Porter County is growing very quickly. She stated lets have the foresight to have responsible and community conscious planning. She stated lets make the Valparaiso neighborhood something we can all be proud of.

Todd Leeth stated his business address is 103 E. Lincolnway, Valparaiso. He stated he appears before the Commission wearing several hats. He stated first time an attorney representing tonight the Porter County Government County Home Builders Association. He stated first of all he is a Board member of that same organization. He stated thirdly he is a member of the American Planning Association and have been involved with planning and zoning issues for a number of years both in this county and outside. He stated he is also a member of the regulated community that this ordinance seeks to impact significantly. He stated the Porter County Home Builders Association supports legal impact fees for parks and other matters. He stated that is very true in fact that they have contributed a significant amount of money along with other communities in the County to fund a study to address the feasibility of whether legally adopted impact fees are appropriate in the county and in the municipalities of this county. He stated they are participating actively in the community study committee that is reviewing the results of those feasibility studies. He stated this is the first opportunity that the Association or frankly anyone else has had to review the ordinance. He stated it is rather recently received or made public and they would like and welcome the opportunity to express their views and concerns. He stated they hope that the draft ordinance was not drafted in the dark, unlike the Comprehensive Plan, which was adopted in May of 2001. He stated that process, over a number of years, involved many special interest groups, citizen participation groups in outreach sessions conducted by the consultants that the County had hired at that time. He stated it is important for those same groups, the Builders Association, citizen groups as well to have their input into whenever an ordinance is ultimately crafted and adopted by the Board of Commissioners. He stated they believe that the current ordinance that is submitted tonight for your consideration is flawed for two general reasons. He stated first for public policy reasons. He


stated they think that the ordinance promotes urban sprawl, limits flexibility of the Plan Commission to vary the very rigid standards established by the ordinance. He stated it does not address minor subdivisions at all. He stated it does not give developers proper credit for green space dedicated for other purposes. He stated it needlessly increases the cost of land and therefore the cost of future homeowners of this county. He stated it places burdens on homeowners and their associations to bear the cost of continued maintenance of these expansive parcels required by the ordinance beyond the realistic benefits derived by the open space. He stated it fails to recognize that green space is inherent in large lot developments and are outside of dedicated open space parcels. He stated lastly it stifles innovative land planning by not providing incentives to developers to create open space, which is something your current PUD ordinance and the Comprehensive Plan tried to do. He stated secondly they believe the ordinance is legally flawed. He stated simply stating 20% is too much. He stated it is over reaching and by doing so they believe constitutionally rises to a level of taking without just compensation. He stated in many communities there is compensation given to developers who dedicate green space under ordinances very similar to the one you are proposing. He stated ladies and gentlemen it is a matter of balance and 20% crosses the line. He stated there is no nexus to such a large requirement of open space to the requirement for recreation in open space, which your ordinance seeks to establish. He stated he compared a 100-acre tract of land zoned R-1, assuming that sewer and water were available. He stated he compared that land to the City of Valparaiso's subdivision requirements and their open space requirements to this proposal. He stated this ordinance requires 500% more open space for only 72% of the number of homes. He stated in essence your ordinance given general rules of thumb of land development would require that developers only would have available for lots approximately 55% of the land that they would start with in the four corners of a parcel that they were intending to develop. He stated that he would suggest to the Commission is a terrible waste of a valuable natural resource and that is the land in Porter County. He stated the ordinance proposed has admirable goals and the Porter County Home Builders Association supports those goals. He stated the result of the current terms of the ordinance are


devastating. He stated we do not believe as an association that there is an emergency or a rush as to why we need to adopt this ordinance today. He stated the County has just opened proposals for consultants, as he understands it, to amend and modify and overhaul the planning and zoning codes for Porter County. He stated what an excellent opportunity we have to take this concern, these goals, and tap that resource of these consultants that you are about to engage. He stated it is best to do that, they believe, as a global concern rather than adopt planning and zoning laws in a vacuum and in piece meal. He stated the Home Builders Association pledges to work with the County to suit the best solutions for your constituents. He stated not only for the people living the in county today but the ones who will be living in the homes built by the members of the Association in the future.

James Zimmer stated he lives at 935 N. 550 E. in Jackson Township. He stated he realizes that your goals are to protect the rights of the citizens and looking out for the homeowners and landowners. He stated he just wanted to remind the Commission as a landowner he feels that this is something that is very obstructive to his rights to do, even though with following the statutes that are in place right now, with following the procedures you are dictating something…you're taking his land. He stated if he decides that he wants to develop his land into a residential community he feels that it is unjust on what you are asking for.

Tim Chesna stated he lives at 550 E. 150 N. He stated he builds quite a few homes in Porter County and as far as open space goes every time they are in a subdivision and they are just about down and they end up with three or four lots he can't tell you how quick it is that the neighbors start to complain that the grass is getting too tall or that the weeds are growing and rodents are in there, trash building up. He stated he really thinks that this is such a small scale of open space inside the subdivision and he hears nothing but complaints from the neighbors and also he has the cities calling him to get over there and mow. He stated the houses that he builds are affordable homes. He stated if we go into an ordinance like this every single subdivision is going to have a Property Owners Association. He stated he can tell you that his customers when it comes


to an extra $80 per month sometimes it cuts them out of the
deal. He stated he tries to be as fair to his customers as possible. He stated he thinks that you are going to hurt the affordable housing part of it. He stated it will hurt his business.

Marge Frame stated she lives at 18 E. 1050 S., Kouts. She stated she just wonders if there was any thought given to the liability insurance that the residents of these developments are going to have to pay for these open spaces. She stated the cost is going up and up. She stated she knows because she has a boarding facility that she has horses and she knows that her property insurance is the liability insurance. She stated if you are going to have large open spaces you are asking for unbelievable amounts of money that these homeowners are going to have to pay. She stated she agrees with Tim Chesna that we are trying to have affordable housing in this county and with this ordinance she doesn't think that we are going to be able to have it.

Gary Green stated he lives at 250 Whitethorne Lane, Valparaiso. He stated he is here to speak to the Commission as a builder and also as a business owner here in Porter County. He stated his business of building homes lies heavily on the quality of life here in Porter County. He stated people come to him to build homes because they like the setting that we live in. He stated as part of his interaction with the Comprehensive Plan he does not feel that this ordinance follows the goals that what set out in the public meetings through a variety of different stakeholders to address the true concerns. He stated the ordinance addresses only acreage and PUD differential. He stated it does not address any of the specifics that were set out in the Comprehensive Plan. He stated he suggests that you follow the County Master Plan as your guide.

David Snomis stated he lived at 552 Shatz Dr. He stated he is also a builder and property owner. He stated he is deeply concerned about giving up 20% of something that he owns. He stated he is concerned as to what the County will do and how will they collect taxes on this property and who will be expected to pay the taxes.

Gary Hicks stated he lives at 702 Washington Street in


Valparaiso. He stated he is part of an organization that has been fairly newly formed in the past eight or nine months or so. He stated it is called Woodland Savana Land
Conservancy. He stated this conservancy is a land trust and there are two others here in Porter County. He stated one is associated with the Dunes Council. He stated this can be for conservation purposes, good quality conservation land. He stated good quality wetlands, streams, buffers, watershed areas and that sort of thing. He stated he is going to propose that we have a win win situation here. He stated if he has one or two hundred acres here that he wishes to develop and he has a swamp over here. He stated why don't we donate the swamp to one of these land conservation organizations and get a substantial tax deduction as a result of it and don't have to worry about paying taxes on it or don't have to worry about managing it. He stated he thinks that if that were the case now many of the concerns that the mentioned here tonight wouldn't be addressed.

Dick Bowers stated he lives at 566 E. Long Lake Road. He stated he tends to agree with most of what the other builders have said. He stated he does have a couple of issues. He stated if you knock out 20% of the lots the County is now going to have 20% less houses generating 20% less taxes. He stated he ran some numbers and a 100-lot subdivision would now be 80 lots and the county is probably going to loose close to $100,000 a year just in lost property taxes. He stated another issue is who wants all of this open space. He stated he has been building houses here for the past 20 years and he doesn't think he has ever had a customer say he wants a field here or some open land. He stated they want to know what their property taxes are going to be. He stated it sounds like in this proposal they are going to be paying for it. He stated it sounds like what you are wanting is more parks and that is a whole different issue. He stated then you need to address parks. He stated that is where you have some quality places where people can go.

Michael Aylesworth stated he lives at 171 W. SR 8, Hebron. He stated he has a hand out that he would like to give to the members. He stated he is the Director of the Porter County Builders Association. He stated they did as a Builders Association look at the different issues involved


and he wanted all of the members to have a copy. He stated they do have a lot of concerns about the open space concept and he thinks that they enumerated several of them. He stated one of the things that he found out just recently that gives him a lot of concern and he spoke to Bob Coolman this morning who developed Sylvan Manor. He stated he asked Bob what his thoughts were because he has been in the building business probably as long if not longer than anyone in this room. He stated Bob, like most of us as builders, think that the idea of the concept is a very laudable one. He stated it has a lot of merit. He stated most of us are long time Porter County residents. He stated we want to see the quality of life maintained. He stated we think that this vehicle is the wrong vehicle to implement that task. He stated we like to ask the Commission to think very seriously about the implications of what this ordinance does, how it affects our quality of life, how it affects affordable housing and how it affects lots of things. He stated what Bob told him is "that open space concept was really great in Sylvan Manor and Heritage Valley when we started out but it doesn't work anymore." He asked "what do you mean?" He stated Bob said "guess what? With reassessment the taxes on that stuff are going out of sight. Property Owner Associations can't afford to own them anymore and maintain them and operate them by the liability insurance." He stated he said to Bob, "What are you going to do with them." He stated Bob said that they are going to give them back to the County for back taxes. He stated the County will then own them. He stated if he was a County Commissioner, which he is not, he would be very concerned about having huge amounts of property end up in my lap with the responsibility of keeping all the grass mowed, the rodents out of there and all of the problems that go along with vacant lots. He stated the public in Porter County like to see groomed lots, groomed open spaces. He stated we like to see fields of corn and soybeans, Angus cattle grazing out the window. He stated we like forest and trees. He stated it is a wonderful thing. He stated the public doesn't like to see trashy lots that are not taken care of. He stated this ordinance he is afraid will lead to that. He stated he wants all of the members to think very carefully about the future implications of what this can do. He stated he asks that the Plan Commission work with the Builders Association to sit down at the table together and come up with a resolution to this.

Steve Dalton stated he lives at 43 Castleton Rd. He
stated two thoughts occurred to him. He stated he is a small construction company and he has six employees. He stated he was thinking to himself that here he is in the construction business and a few of those employees for a $15000 moving house probably moved to another county. He stated he may be a builder and so maybe that is okay with him because he can make big bucks on the next big house. He stated he doesn't know if that is our most laudable goal as public citizens and as leaders in this community to drive the people that work for us, the government employees, the safety employees, those who work for us, out of the county to live somewhere else so that they can work for our company's. He stated he lives on a 45,000 square foot lot. He stated he thinks that about 80% of his lot is open space. He stated he particularly doesn't want another lot down the street that isn't going to be mowed or is not going to be kept up. He stated he would proposed that the Parks Department would do a better job managing 100, 200 or 300 acres as a park somewhere else.

Dan Steiner stated he lives at 40 Warren Drive. He stated he is with Harvest Homes and they just finished Maple Creek in Valparaiso. He stated one of the things that surprised him with Maple Creek was early on he sold two lots to the lady back behind and they were just vacant lots. He stated he was surprised that he had so much feedback from "mom's" basically telling him that they didn't want to buy next to that property because they said who is going to mow it, is it going to be lit up at night, are kids going to hang out there, what kind of element are you going to have. He asked how does he have control of that. He stated it surprised him that the "mom's" in the neighborhood were worried about the two lots that they thought was going to be nice set aside lots. He stated this backfired on them. He stated he did the numbers on this and if you take the 20% out basically as you take the 20% that is approximately 21 lots that would come out of that and out of those 21 lots that amounts to raising the price of the other lots about $15400 per lot. He stated each one of those lots it averages about $58000 and from $58000 it goes to $73000. He stated one of the best things that they have going for them is that they have people coming in saying that they are affordable and build homes that they love and like and they can afford to live here.


He stated he feels like the people that are coming in and
buying those homes or moving in other neighborhoods locks
them out. He stated that $15000 difference makes a big difference for them. He stated they are here tonight to say lets talk about this.

Hannah Eldridge stated he lives at 407 N. Napoleon. He stated he came to speak for the ordinance. He stated in the 40 some years that they have lived in Porter County they have seen a lot of wetlands, woods, farmland and other open space disappear. He stated maybe it is a problem for the builders but if they let building go on unrestricted future generations are not going to have much open land to enjoy. He stated he urges you to protect them.

John Whitcomb stated he lives at 2059 S. SR 2. He stated he is against this for the same reasons most of the other people here have mentioned. He stated he will have more to say about this at a later date.

Ned Kovachevich stated he lives at 259 Danica Dr. and he will reserve his comments for a later date.

Marge Hefner stated she lives at 944 S. 600 E., Kouts. She stated she is for open space. She stated she is waiting to here other people's opinions; whatever would be for the health, safety and general welfare of the County.

Herb Read stated he lives at1453 N. Tremont Road, Chesterton. He stated he came here to speak in support of the proposed ordinance. He stated some mention has been made of a County Master Plan. He stated as he recalls that Master Plan states that some of the open space needs of Porter County will be met by private interest, meaning mostly the subdividers, the developers. He stated unfortunately, the Master Plan has not been adopted but at least it is a goal. He stated he read this very thoroughly and it seems to him that it has good reasoning laid out, good scientific underpinning, which should make it legally defensible but he will leave that to the lawyers. He stated he knows also that it is flexible to a certain extent to allow for a specific site conditions. He stated he particularly likes the several classes, the developed and undeveloped and the requirement that on the larger PUD's that there be a mix. He stated he likes the emphasis on


protecting the natural features, the wetlands, the woods.
He stated he is an architect and he has been one for 55 years and he has also done speculative building, houses for speculation, houses for resale. He stated in fact he is engaged in that right now. He stated he just signed a contract to buy a lot several weeks ago. He stated the first requirement that he laid out for himself was that he selected a lot that had protected open space in sight and visible. He stated he intends to make that one of the prime selling points of the house that he will ultimately build there. He stated 20% has been said that it constitutes too much. He stated he thinks that it is too low and it should be 30%. He stated he knows of subdivisions or developments that have set aside 50%. He stated he is concerned that there are some loopholes. He stated he thinks that all builders, himself included, everyone in the building business owes something to their community and that includes providing for parks and open space. He stated he expected the builders to be opposed to this. He stated there is nothing new in that. He stated the builders opposed the National Lakeshore. He stated if there had been builders around they would have opposed the State Park and in fact they did acting through the Chamber of Commerce back in the 1920's. He stated he doesn't know of any particular park proposal that the builders have supported and many of them they have actively opposed. He stated he doesn't remember any builders supporting the County Park system. He stated the reason Porter County is a desirable place to live is not just because of low taxes, although that is a factor, but because it is a good place to live. He stated part of that being a good place to live is open space. He stated he intends to live here the rest of his life. He stated some developers and he has know these developers go from county to county to county doing what they can to fill up one county and when the cheap land is gone they move to another county. He stated not all developers are like this. He stated there is an economic benefit. He stated he would like to read something that is in Chesterton Tribune. At this time, Mr. Read read from the Chesterton Tribune.

Paul Shinn stated he lives at the north end of Chesterton. He stated he lives in a subdivision where they do have some open space that is part Association and part detention area. He stated you ought to go and see it. He


stated the grass is not mowed and the mosquitoes are there.
He stated the cattails are growing and it is a problem. He stated he agrees that some land should be set aside for open space. He stated 20% is a number. He asked do you really understand what 20% means as far as a 20-acre parcel. He stated he thinks that this is four acres. He stated if you don't know what four acres is try to mow it and try to maintain it. He stated that is a lot of property. He stated he thinks that 20% is a lot of land. He stated people complain about the builders. He stated we are here representing our trade our business but we are also looking at the people that are coming to Porter County. He stated we can't just lock the door and not let anybody in. He stated it just doesn't happen. He stated everybody here has moved to Porter County.

Keith Lakin stated he lives at 1216 N. 325 E. He stated he sits here and listens to a lot of things. He stated first he has two grandchildren who are trying to buy houses. He stated he also has about 200 acres North of Rt. 6. He stated he is also one of the best conservationists in this room. He stated he has 77 acres with an easement on it that can never be developed. He stated he has developed ponds and is in the process of draining 40-acres, which will probably will never get paid off because it will probably will go into development some day. He stated he wants to make the best farm he can make out of it as long as he can. He stated he looked at this ordinance and he just heard of this a couple of days ago. He stated he is for open space. He stated there are a lot of things in here. He stated he has 40-acres that has three ravines in it. He stated it would make wonderful open space but you say you can't use 20-feet or less. He stated a nice walking path would only have to be 7 or 8 feet between each one of these ravines. He stated he has two ponds on that property. He stated he would hate to have to put a 20-foot easement into those for everybody to get to them. He stated he thinks that this is something that we are trying to rush into real fast with not enough input. He stated he would like to see this go on for six weeks or so with a meeting every week.

Julia Weiss stated she lives at 2503 Dorsett Dr., Valparaiso. She stated a lot of really important things have been said on both sides tonight. She stated she


generally is in favor of this ordinance. She stated her family moved here in 1997 and the houses that her parents were looking at were small ranch style houses sort of on the outside of town with a lot of tree around them. She stated she thinks it is really important to a lot of people to have these open spaces. She stated she thinks that are community has a responsibility to them. She stated whether you are looking at it from an environmental point of view or an aesthetic point of view it is incredibly valuable and people really need to take that into consideration. She stated the image of the community that they want to project it going to be positive. She stated she thinks that if we plow through these areas without any real consideration it is really going to be negative.

Charlotte Read stated she lives at 1453 Tremont Rd., Chesterton. She stated all the builders have spoken tonight she understands their concern. She stated they talked about their clients and what are their clients bringing. She stated more people, more children and to her that means more open space. She stated you are doing such a good job and we are here saying to provide for all of our needs, which is more open space. She stated she thinks that this ordinance is a very good start and she agrees with her husband and it probably needs to be more generous.

Tom Sanders stated he lives at 204 Leads Dr. He asked how many folks here tonight are builders. He stated he is for the ordinance. He stated in their neighborhood they have a green space called Burkley Park. He stated he moved from the East Coast. He stated we moved from an area that had green space and moved to this area specifically because there were open areas for them to be able to move into. He stated in the neighborhood that he moved into was built when the interest rates were the highest ever and the builder sold that neighborhood faster than any other community in Valparaiso. He asked what does that mean? He stated that means that homes with green space gets sold and they do add value to the community. He stated that one was eventually dedicated as a park as most do and in affect because he gets to travel all over Indiana those counties who do implore this type of activity of having open green space, Hamilton County, north of Indianapolis a perfect case in point, are the most successful counties economically and essentially productively for the families.


He stated Hamilton County is number one and the Township called Avon, which is west of Indianapolis, also have a mandate of a certain percentage of green space for every new development. He stated both of those are the fastest growing communities. He stated those houses wouldn't be sold otherwise.

Donna Mead Harris stated she lives at 1951 Bean Blossom Court. She stated green space is a priceless amenity in any neighborhood. She stated she raised her family in Heritage Valley. She stated she appreciates the developer of her community, Bob Coolman Sr. She stated he built a community with parks and trails for all the residents to enjoy and he did it without a mandate.

Tim Cole stated he lives at 845 N. Calumet Ave. He stated most of what he has heard from some of the opponents are individual builders who build individual homes and are not necessarily in the subdivision process. He stated some are of course but at the same time he sees subdivisions coming here for approval with names like Prairie View, Park View, Wild Flower Meadows. He stated they obviously want to sell the idea of open space they just don't want to have anything to do with it. He stated maybe 20% is too much and maybe a compromise is in order. He stated one of the things that he notices is that we keep talking residential here but he notices this says PUD, Planned Unit Development and he hopes that finally that we will be looking at a true definition of Planned Unit Development and not some lawyers interpretation of what a PUD can get for him or his client. He stated he certainly heard new definitions of sprawl used tonight. He stated he doesn't know if he can say much more than what has already been said except that. He stated the gentleman next to him has given you an idea of what happens in other parts of the Country. He stated it seems to him that maybe they have better plans in other parts of the country and we need to measure up.

Debra Rowland stated she lives at 570 Glenwood Dr., Valpo. She stated she is also the Home Owners Association President for Glenwood Homes. She stated she came here on another issue but she wants to talk about this one. She stated listening to the builders and she can kind of understand their concerns. She stated she moved here from Cleveland. She stated she moved here because you have


great schools, it is a great community and all those things. She stated she moved out there because she wanted green space. She stated we have so many developments now where the houses are house on top of house on top of house. She stated look at Shamrock. She stated those people are on top of each other. She stated people move here because they want area around them. She stated maybe if we weren't so concerned about trying to get as many little plots into an area, if we made the plats bigger maybe then we wouldn't have to worry about having the green space. She stated in her area they have three. She stated they have a pond, two parks. She stated they maintain them, they mow them and they actually do things for the pond so they don't have algae blooms. She stated they have fish in there to control as many mosquitoes as possible. She stated it is not an economic burden on their homeowners. She stated they are even putting money away to redo entrances. She stated it is not like they are taxing them to death. She stated they pay taxes on their lots. She stated on the other side of the coin when you are asking what are we going to get from it. She stated she is pretty much thinking that you are going to get more money out of your lots anyway because people like her move here and say that they want that park area. She stated on their two front parcels they have access to the lake. She stated they can go to the lake and fish. She stated they pay liability insurance and all things considered it is not an astronomical amount. She stated it is a doable thing. She stated they are considering putting in playground equipment. She stated maybe 20% isn't a good number and maybe there is somewhere in between but it is a good thing for these developments and for the community.

Ruth Osann stated she lives at 2207 Dickenson Road, Chesterton. She stated she grew up in New York City and the greatest thing that they had were the parks. She stated actually moving out into the suburbs in more open country she doesn't think that just the grass around your house takes the place of a specific area set aside and preserved.

Mr. Laiken asked if there was any provisions for subdivisions to make a payment where they could combine and make a larger area possibly rather than have a smaller area that would not be used as well as a more open park area.


Mr. Breitzke stated this may be one of the things that we may need to consider.

Mr. Chesna stated he has heard everyone talk about how good Porter County is. He stated there are a lot of builders and developers in Porter and he is a developer in the County. He stated one thing that they have done is they have done it without the mandate and without someone choosing it and saying you are going to do this much. He stated when the property does become available it sometimes has that natural beauty in the ravines they are left open because they are too expensive to develop as it is. He stated they have done it without being mandated to a specific percentage and all of that.

The public hearing was then closed.

Commissioner Harper stated he would like to speak in favor of this. He stated he has comments that he would like to make to the Commission members. He stated he feels sort of helpless tonight because most of the people on this Commission know that he has been in favor of this ordinance and he thinks that some of the members of this Commission have because they have sat here when we have had subdivision after subdivision come in and used every inch of space and did not leave open space. He stated the reason he feels helpless is because he realizes that the builder's opposition is well financed and they are able to turn people out and they are able to get involved politically. He stated really the people that this is going to affect most are not that organized and it scares him as a person that is trying to push this kind of ordinance that may have an impact on it. He stated frankly he is a little disappointed that more people didn't come out tonight but that is what happened. He stated people talked about forming a committee and getting input. He stated if we form a committee he would like to pick some school teachers who have class sizes where there are 26, 27, 28 kids in a class. He stated he would like to pick some families who enjoy going out on picnics and using their green space in their subdivision. He stated he would like to talk to the regular citizens in this community and not those on a committee who have a special interest in this. He stated he would like to talk about a few things that have been talked about here. He stated first one that


he thinks is very important that Mr. Read had spoke about. He stated he wishes that builders would listen to this one although he doesn't think that they will. He stated this ordinance has been passed like ordinances have been passed in other areas in the State of Indiana. He stated they talk about Carmel in Hamilton County. He stated every member of this Commission has a packet of ordinances of other counties in Indiana. He stated some of them have 30% requirements. He stated what Mr. Read read to you was told to us by these Planners. He stated we went through a series of interviews of six Planners to try to decide who was to work on our Master Plan. He stated whenever these Planners were asked they said that the best tool for economic development of our community is tight good zoning regulations. He stated the reason is the tech companies are not going to come into communities were we have outside semi-storage on the road between Valpo and Hobart and where we put in land transfer stations and we have 100 semi's a day running outside of Valpo. He stated the tech companies are not going to come into these types of communities. He stated the tech companies are going to come into communities that have good planning and tight zoning. He stated this is number one. He stated number 2 is having good zoning plans is not going to stop your building. He stated the Vidette held a conference the other night about economic development. He stated they were talking about what brought people to this community. He stated it is not 300 homes on 100 acres that bring people to this community. He stated they talked about why people jumped over Lake County to move to Porter County. He stated they talked about the fact that they can still tell where the downtown of Valpo and Chesterton are, whereas in Lake County it is all a mass. He stated they don't know where one thing stops and another thing starts. He stated good planning and tough planning and upscale planning is good for economic development. He stated the other that was mentioned was taxes. He stated to be very honest, when you mass homes on a low amount of acres you put so many families in there that require so many governmental services that you never get the tax dollar out of that area. He stated the tax argument doesn't work. He stated you put all those homes in that area and you don't ever get that tax dollar back out of that area. He stated either way you loose some tax dollars. He stated you talk about the legality of this. He stated the United States Supreme


Court has decided that this is legal. He stated we have examples of other areas in Indiana that have done the same type of thing. He stated again he refers to Carmel, Indiana and this is his vision. He stated this is his vision for this county. He stated he knows it may not come to be because he knows that there is big money interest that may fight it. He stated his vision is a county like Carmel, Indiana that has good building and good development and good paying jobs coming in, tech company's coming in and so forth. He stated they are doing it in other areas in this Country and they can do it here. He stated we have been asking and asking for this ordinance. He stated Bob Thompson, who we know, with the size staff that we have, is overworked and has come together with this ordinance. He stated as it has been stated this ordinance has to be passed here and then it will go on to the Commissioners. He stated the last thing he wants to see is for this to go to a committee because if it goes to a committee he will predict that it will be lost. He stated it is going to take a lot of courage to vote for this thing tonight but it is right.

Commissioner Harper moved to forward Case 04-M-3 to the County Commissioner with a favorable recommendation and in the form in which it has been presented. Mr. Bucko seconded the motion.

Discussion:

Mr. Sheetz stated he appreciates what Commissioner Harper said. He stated he doesn't want to see 120 homes on 65 acres but he personally chose to live in a community where he doesn't have to pay a POA. He stated he didn't want to move to a place where he had to pay a POA. He stated he agrees with what Todd Leeth said. He stated he would propose that we actually think about it in terms of getting everyone involved because Commissioner Harper is correct in saying that there weren't very many people here for it and there were a lot of builders against it. He stated he agrees on Mr. Leeth part that the situation with the consultants is something we should maybe wait for.

Mr. Biddinger stated he has had a lot of thought sitting here tonight. He stated a lot has gone through his mind. He stated first he would like to thank everyone for


coming out tonight. He stated as a public hearing this was
done in an extremely courteous manner. He stated he admires everyone for respecting everybody's opinion here and he thinks that this is what can happen when a community comes together with a common goal in mind. He stated he has a few comments and a few thoughts. He stated he is a horticulturist by training and to hear people talking about weeds and animals and all of that growing up unkept. He stated often times in the environmental arena those are called grassland prairies and they are actually a very much needed and native habitat. He stated they do require a little bit of maintenance and care. He stated when you see one of those in bloom it is breath taking. He stated it is actually fairly low maintenance compared to a manicured pasture or manicured lawn. He stated concerning loosing lots under the PUD ordinance there is clustering allowed. He stated if you can cluster up the lots and still set off the 20% or whatever the dedication is you are actually reducing infrastructure requirements because you are putting houses closer together and reducing construction costs to start with. He stated this is an alternative and a thought. He asked if this is the type of open space that we want. He stated often times when we hear open space he hears agricultural fields put right in with forest land, preserves and that type of thing. He stated this ordinance is not going to do a thing to preserve agricultural property or land, in fact it might even threaten it by requiring larger parcel sizes to get the same type of development because of the 20%. He stated again he has to ask if this is the type of open space and is this the location of the open space that we want. He stated he doesn't have the answer to that. He stated concerning taxes according to Larry DeBore from Purdue University who is an AG Economist residential development regardless of density is net negative on taxes because that type of development requires police officers, fire protection, road maintenance. He stated industrial and commercial development is net positive on taxes. He stated this is something to think about when you start talking about increasing residential development.

Mr. Detert stated he heard all the comments and he agrees with some of the comments that had an empty space and it is not kept up it is detrimental in many cases. He stated he thinks that the gentleman who spoke about that


they were privately owned lots so there was nobody that was
going to take the initiative to go in there and clean them up and nobody could except the homeowner. He stated he personally have developed and the one development that he made that was within the confines of a community with a lot of amenities sold like hot cakes. He stated he thinks that the open space is going to be beneficial in the long run to the builders. He stated he got more money for the lots and he had people beating on his door and one guy got mad at his wife because he wasn't home and the lots were sold out. He stated he thinks that when you have amenities they improve the salability of the property.

Mr. Mahnic stated he doesn't totally agree with the ordinance although Bob did a very good job. He stated there are nine ordinances he received tonight and he hasn't had a chance to look at them. He stated he is not a legal mind but he believes he knows the difference between black and white. He stated he doesn't know what are in these ordinances and how they passed and if they ever were contested. He stated any ordinance that we make can be contested regardless of how perfect it is. He stated he feels that with the amount of builders and Builders Association people this will be challenged in court and then we will find out if it is legal. He stated he doesn't think that he wants his county to go through that and he would rather have some time to look at it. He stated he did look at the draft copy and the final copy and he digested it. He stated he is confused on a number of items. He stated at this time he cannot support this ordinance. He stated he is not a friend of any builders nor is he a friend of all the citizens. He stated he is trying to protect our interest. He stated he lives in a subdivision and he came from Ohio 40 years ago. He stated he lives in a subdivision where the builder did not have to be told what he has to set aside. He stated his development has a horse barn for 32 horses. He stated we cannot get many people in our subdivision to have horses. He stated we still have to maintain it. He stated we have problems with people coming in to see what we have there and we got to carry insurance for that. He stated we have a swimming pool and we have a tennis court. He stated we have a detention pond and we have to pay tax on all of that. He stated we are getting to the point and we always had our lawns mowed, the common area. He stated they


always have a problem with people trespassing. He stated he put some quick numbers down here. He stated out of 52 homeowners in their subdivision only 16 take any active part off and on in order to maintain that. He stated you can't in a POA go up there and say you are going to do this. He stated we have threatened people and told them that they are going to start charging and pay people to do this work for us. He stated then they say "Fine, don't assess me." He stated in order to put a special assessment in there their bylaws are so tight that they have to have 54% of the people to vote for it. He stated he thinks a POA is a good thing when people are young and can get together and do this together but as we get older all of a sudden we keep falling off. He stated all of a sudden their assessments to keep these things going go up. He stated they can only raise their so call assessments $1 per year. He stated in one section he feels that we are trying to take property away from people by telling the developer you cannot do this and you must give us this part. He stated in the present form he cannot support this at this time.

Mr. Poparad stated he sees both sides but he has to echo what Mr. Biddinger said. He stated if there are 100 acres and under the present zoning they can get 70 homes in there. He stated if we allow them to cluster the homes and meet the 20% does that keep everybody happy. He stated that is 70 homes and we get our 20%. He stated this is already allowed under the PUD. He stated he agrees with Mr. Harper. He stated he has to go back to the subdivision we did on Rt. 6. He stated there are 112 lots on 68 acres. He stated this is not good development. He asked if 20% is too high. He stated he doesn't know. He stated maybe we could meet the developers and they obviously have a financial goal but if they can achieve the same goals and we can achieve our goals then both sides win. He stated if that means we have to cluster a few houses a little tighter maybe smaller setbacks or smaller lot sizes.

Mr. Bucko stated the thing that really caught his attention to this and Bob mentioned it earlier too. He stated half of the people we spoke to did say just exactly what Bob said about green spaces and raising the bar higher for the types of developments that we may want to have in
Porter County and what it may do to economic development


and the positive affect it has on economic development as a
whole. He stated it literally has proven that it has been a positive affect for economic development and for building. He stated the other thing that kind of bothers him a little bit is that; and this is just a few shortcomings in our Master Plan; we still don't have a good handle on the tiny amenities within development. He stated sidewalks for example. He stated many times just simple lighting. He stated developers come to this Planning Commission and they don't put lighting in. He stated we use it as a bargaining tool for the purpose of getting some amenities for a community. He stated if they would like a rezone we barter for sidewalks. He stated in his mind sidewalks and lighting is something that brings a community together and makes people communicate with each other because they have a route to get to one another's homes. He stated he hates to send this to the Commissioners and now he is reading an unfavorable recommendation. He stated there is a great deal to be gained with this. He stated he is not so sure if 20% is the right number but here on these pieces of paper it says it is not unreasonable for several communities that are successful communities in Indiana. He stated we really need to look at this and he thinks that it is a positive thing and something that could compliment our entire Master Plan, our entire Land Use Development Plan.

Commissioner Harper stated if we don't vote on it how long is it going to hang around before we work on it.

Mr. Detert stated if we push this into a committee it will be another year or two messing around. He stated everyone here agrees that what we are trying to do is good. He stated even the Builders Association. He stated they disagree with the percentages and he thinks that the Commissioners can work with them on that when they get the ordinance from us. He stated he thinks that we ought to pass this on and get something that is overdue and that everyone agrees is needed.

Mr. Bucko stated everything that is in this ordinance is something that the Commissioners can work out. He stated we are only an advisory board and we are giving them the bottom line to work with.

Mr. Breitzke stated he is in total agreement. He


stated we can pass this on but not without some real thoughtful consideration to what is going on here. He stated while the 20% is somewhat a large number he thinks that it is manageable if there is some density considerations. He stated one of the things he is hoping in coordination with the open space that we are not creating additional streets or we are not creating additional infrastructure that is really not needed except to serve the open space. He stated he would like to see considerations for frontage, for lot sizes such as Mr. Poparad suggested. He stated he would also remind the Home Builders in Indiana we have a cap so the tax issue isn't as much an issue and in fact we do have a net loss with residential for the services we need to provide but if we go toward a clustering with the consideration for open space and the open space being under the terms Bob has described accept that the POA must be incorporated. He stated that is one of the things that was kind of left out of it. He stated we have too many POA's that have no ability to collect fees consistently from their owners that we may have something. He stated we may also be seeing more PUD's because there is more versatility in that. He stated we need to be open-minded to those things. He stated the other thing that concerns him and he brought it up at the last meeting is that one of our big land uses right now is doing the ten acre splits out of the agricultural properties that we have. He stated one of the things that we might want to consider as part of this ordinance is to give some consideration to land owners, especially farmers, who have 80 acres who can possibly get 10 sites out of their land to simplify a process that we trade off for one to two acre building sites, leave the balance, say 65 acres, that we carry the development rights in then transfer the development rights to us. He stated the farmer keeps his land can farm it, forest it or leave it how he wants but it is still a taxable entity out there. He stated somebody can minimize the impact in that way and a huge part of our county's under that influence too, regardless of the zoning issues. He stated right now we are under some definitions zoning and somewhere a long the line we are going to have to redefine our zoning. He stated fundamentally he agrees with the idea of open space but there has to be some balances in his mind.

Commissioner Harper stated we could do this fine


tuning forever. He stated we asked Bob to write us an ordinance and he wrote us an ordinance.

Motion carried on the following ballot vote:

Biddinger - Yes Bucko - Yes Detert - Yes
Harper - Yes Mahnic - No Poparad - Yes
Sheetz - No Breitzke - No

This will be heard by the County Commissioners on July 6 at 11:00 a.m.


Other Business:

Drainage issues within Glenwood Hills Subdivision.

Commissioner Harper stated he asked Bob to put this on the agenda. He stated this homeowner has this sinkhole out there and he understands that this is in a subdivision where we are still issuing permits for building. He stated he feels that we need to give this homeowner some kind of answer.

Mr. Breitzke stated the only power we have in this case whether we issue CO's or permits and what the ramifications are.

Mr. Poparad asked if this is still under construction.

Mr. Thompson stated parts of it are still under construction. He stated he thinks that they have all of the infrastructure in as for the proposed subdivision and what it was. He stated there are just lots for sale now.

Earl Studman stated he lives at 565 N. Waterford Dr. He stated he is the attorney for Wayne Wysocki who is a homeowner in the Glenwood Hills Subdivision lot 100.

Debra Rowland stated she is the Homeowners Association President. She stated she lives at 570 Glenwood Dr.

Mr. Studman stated the problem is that at one end of Mr. Wysocki's lot a depression developed. He stated this is within 20 feet of a manhole that appears to be a storm


sewer. He stated this depression has gotten to be 8 or 9 feet deep. He stated if Mr. Wysocki takes his garden hose and puts it in the hole over here by the manhole if he takes the lid off he can see the water coming through. He stated this appears to have developed after somebody, whether it was the County or the developer cleaned out an adjacent storm sewer line. He stated he is at lot 100 and lot 101 is now developing two sinkholes. He stated there is something in the installation of the storm sewer that is being a problem. He stated the County did fix a sinkhole that was at the road level.

Mr. Wysocki stated the County Highway Department erected barriers around the sinkhole. He stated he spoke with Ray Riddell who said that they would fix the roadways so they wouldn't get any more damage in the future. He stated but since this is on an easement they said it is kind of tossing a football around.

Mr. Breitzke stated for the Commissions information this was put into a POA, the whole storm system. He stated the reason the County Highway was on its right-of-way that is where it can do work and repair. He stated for the Drainage Board we need at least 15 feet on each side by Statute of any tile so any easements are substantially smaller than what the Drainage Board would require should this become a regulated drain. He stated since he brought up the idea of a regulated drain this is where we do many of the subdivisions today of this size. He stated basically the principle there would be to assess individual lot owners in this case because the extensive tile system the assessments would be fairly high considering that most of the system is between 20 and 30 years old.

Mr. Poparad asked if all the lots were taken.

Mrs. Rowland stated they are still developing lots. She stated he has 16 lots left and there is another issue with those for the South Haven sewer.

Mr. Poparad asked what size is the pipe.

Mr. Breitzke stated no he doesn't know.

Mr. Thompson stated this area within Glenwood Hills is


within the area where the EPA put a moratorium on South
Haven sewer. He stated even though there are vacant lots there we cannot issue them building permits at this time. He stated he has about four or five people that want building permits and he won't issue them.

Mr. Poparad asked who the developer was.

Mr. Thompson stated he thinks it is a gentleman by the name of Rupert.

Commissioner Harper stated we have a development that has 152 lots and the developer has put in a storm water system that is failing. He asked that we don't have any leverage in not issuing any other permits until he fixes that problem.

Mr. Thompson stated the leverage right now is South Haven because we can't issue any permits.

Commissioner Harper moved to put a moratorium on building permits for the lots in Glenwood Hills that are owned by the developer and have not yet been sold; and to have Attorney Schaefer looks into the fact whether we can do anything else. Mr. Poparad seconded the motion.

Discussion:

Mr. Sheetz asked if the developer is building every home out there.

Mr. Studman stated there are three or four or five different contractors.

Mr. Sheetz stated we are not actually hurting the developer. He stated we are hurting the people who are trying to build a house out there.

At this time, the Commission had a discussion on who owned the lots.

Attorney Schaefer stated she would like to say that a lot of these issues are way beyond the scope of the Plan Commission and they are obviously issues that the County Attorney needs to be looking at.


The motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m.

PORTER COUNTY
PLAN COMMMISSION


S/Kevin Breitzke, President

Attest: Robert W. Thompson Jr. AICP
Executive Director/County Planner