PORTER COUNTY PLAN COMMISSION

Regular Meeting
January 14, 2004

M I N U T E S

The regular meeting of the Porter County Plan Commission was held on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 at 6:30 p.m. in the Administrative Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Those members present were Eric Biddinger, Mike Bucko, Rick Burns, Robert Detert, Frank Mahnic, Bob Poparad, Commissioner Harper and Kevin Breitzke, President. Staff members present were Robert W. Thompson Jr., Patricia S. Gibson and Attorney Lily Schaefer.

Mr. Mahnic moved to waive the reading of the December 10, 2003 minutes and approve them as received in the mail. Mr. Bucko seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

At this time, Mr. Thompson read a letter from Attorney Todd Leeth requesting the Plan Commission continue the Hampton Manor Subdivision primary plat case until the February 11, 2004 Plan Commission meeting.

Mr. Detert moved to continue Case 03-P-17 until the February 11, 2004 Plan Commission meeting. Mr. Mahnic seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Pending Business:

At this time, Mr. Breitzke turned over the gavel to Mr. Thompson.

Election of officers
President:

Mr. Burns moved to nominate Kevin Breitzke for President of the Plan Commission. Mr. Detert seconded the motion.

Mr. Detert moved to close the nominations for President of the Plan Commission. Mr. Bucko seconded the motion.

Motion carried to elect Kevin Breitzke for President of the Plan Commission.

At this time, Mr. Thompson turned the gavel over to Mr. Breitzke.

Vice-President:

Mr. Breitzke moved to nominate Bob Detert as Vice-President of the Plan Commission. Mr. Burns seconded the motion.

Mr. Bucko moved to close the nominations for Vice-President of the Plan Commission. Mr. Burns seconded the motion.

Motion carried to elect Robert Detert as Vice-President of the Plan Commission.

Staff appointments:
Executive Director/County Planner:

Mr. Detert moved to re-appoint Robert W. Thompson Executive Director/County Planner for the year 2004. Mr. Bucko seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Attorney:

Mr. Poparad moved appoint Attorney Lily Schaefer as the attorney for the Plan Commission and Board of Zoning Appeals. Mr. Mahnic seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Technical Advisory Committee:

Mr. Detert moved to appoint the following as voting members to the Technical Advisory Committee: Chuck Walker, NRSC, David Schelling, County Engineer, Kevin Breitzke, County Surveyor, Kelly Cadwell, County Health Department and Robert Thompson, Executive Director. Mr. Mahnic seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Board of Zoning Appeals:

Mr. Bucko moved to appoint Robert Detert to the Board of Zoning Appeals. Mr. Mahnic seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Annual Report for 2003:

Mr. Thompson stated that the annual report has been handed out. He stated he is going to ask the members, since he has been unable to get this out to the members previously to review this, to review this and continue this until the next meeting.

Mr. Mahnic moved to continue the Annual Report until the January 28 meeting. Mr. Detert seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Case 03-Z-19. Petition of George Sigler, c/o Glenn Tabor, 56 South Washington St., Suite 401, Valparaiso, Indiana for a proposed amendment to the Master Plan to rezone a parcel of land from R-1, Single Family Residential to C-3, Shopping Center District to be located on the Northeast corner of Calumet Avenue and Burlington Beach Road in Center Township, Porter County, Indiana. (con't from 12-10-03 mtg. The public hearing is closed.)

Glenn Tabor stated before any construction can take place within the rezoned district and that is C-3, the Plan Commission must approve the development plan. He stated the owner of the property and himself met with Mr. Thompson and you have before you the staff report that shows all of the items that they have agreed to remove from uses on this property. He stated those items that they have agreed to remove of uses are uses that the Commission commented on last time and what appear to them to be objectionable.

Mr. Mahnic stated in C-3 it states no parking in the front of the development or did it read this wrong.

Mr. Thompson stated he believes what the codes intention is when it states no parking in the front yard it is based upon where the actual front yard setback is. He stated if you look at the definition of our code the building setback line off of the right-of-way of the road between the right-of-way and the building setback line is by our definition termed the front yard.

Mr. Detert moved to forward Case 03-Z-19 to the County Commissioners with a favorable recommendation and also with the chart that was presented to the Commission with the exclusions. Mr. Mahnic seconded the motion, which carried on the following ballot vote:

Biddinger - Yes Bucko - Yes Burns - Yes
Detert - Yes Mahnic - Yes Poparad - Yes
Harper - Yes Breitzke - Yes

This case will be heard by the County Commissioners on February 3, 2004 at 11:00 a.m.

Public Hearing:

At this time, Mr. Breitzke read the rules of conduct for a public hearing.

Mr. Breitzke stated before we go on he would like to announce that Case 04-APP-1 has been withdrawn by the petitioner.



Case 04-P-1. Petition of Preferred Builders, c/o Ralph Affeld, P.O. Box 1578, Valparaiso, Indiana seeking primary plat approval for Vernon Woods Subdivision to be located on the North side of CR 550 N. between CR 50 W. and CR 175 W. in Center Township, Porter County, Indiana. (To contain 25 lots on 38 acres. Property is zoned R-1.)

John Kremke stated he is from the Duneland Group and he is here representing the petitioner. He stated as Kevin said this is a 25 lot single family subdivision zoned R-1 on 38 acres. He stated the subdivision is located between Wedgwood East and Wedgwood Subdivision. He stated in fact in an effort to make some connectivity for roads it actually has a connection to Shatz Drive in Wedgwood East. He stated there are two points of access to the subdivision. He stated there is one on CR 550 N. and one on Shatz Drive. He stated to plan for future connectivity there is also in the northwesterly portion of the development a connection what is now vacant property but in hopes for any future connectivity to whatever is developed there in the future. He stated one of the neat features of this site is that it is heavily wooded and has a lot of ravines and natural features and takes a lot of offsite water both Wedgwood East and property to the south and from the north that travels through this site. He stated this development takes all of that into account and detains nearly all of it in its detention system by creating better situation downstream. He stated they have been through the TAC procedure and had two or three appearances before TAC to work out some issues. He stated they have also appeared before the Porter County Drainage Board to meet that requirement as well. He stated the development meets all of the standards of the County.

William Cooley stated he lives at 116 W. 550 N. He stated approximately 150 feet East of the entryway is his house. He stated Mr. President, members of the Board and Mr. Commissioner he opposes this subdivision for safety reasons. He stated he lives on CR 550 N. and he has been there for 27 years. He stated every morning when he goes out of his driveway it is very hazardous. He stated his driveway is on the south side and about 150 feet east of the entry here. He stated he is on the top of the hill and this entry is in the bottom of the ravine. He stated the line of sight from the top of the hill is hazardous to pull out onto the road. He stated he thinks it is also difficult coming from the other subdivisions from the west. He stated with this entry down in the valley the line of sight for that speed on the road doesn't comply with the Indiana Guidelines for line of sight. He stated the speed limit is 40 mph if they comply with that but with the speed that they are actually traveling the road, usually in access of 50 to 60 mph, he thinks it is going to


be very hazardous for people who are trying to get in and out of there. He stated there are constant accidents there with deer crossing the road. He stated people can't see a deer crossing the road. He stated it is going to be very difficult for cars coming in and out of there. He stated the second problem he has is the water table. He stated over the years the water in the area has deteriorated and he believes it is because of draw down from developing the area. He stated he has concerns about the drinking water. He stated during the rainy season he has property that has a pair of hills on it. He stated during heavy rains he gets a stream going across his yard and it goes across and into the area where the entry road will be. He stated as far as the rest of the development towards the back he doesn't have any real comments on that. He stated his main concern is the entry being very hazardous.

Scott Wells stated he lives at 550 Wedgwood Dr. He stated he has a couple of concerns that mirror Mr. Cooley's. He stated the drainage area of the properties that butt up against Wedgwood and Wedgwood East are much higher. He stated he does have pictures that he would like to present to the Commission for their review. He stated he is also concerned about the water table. He stated most of the homes in their area do rely on sub-efficient wells and they have had problems in their own neighborhood with septic and with these other homes being built on a much higher water table. He stated he is concerned about the quality of water. He stated he is also concerned about the traffic as Mr. Cooley pointed out. He stated he also has pictures of what he has stated as far as line of sight and he would like to present these to the Commission.

Elizabeth Karas stated her husband will speak.

Greg Karas stated he lives at 563 Wedgwood Dr. He stated he went to the Duneland Group to look over the plans and one of his concerns is guarding the wetlands that are present throughout the subdivisions. He stated he noticed that when they looked over the plans it seemed to him that the road ran right along where the one wetland area was. He stated he would like that clarified so that they would understand what was happening with the designated wetland areas. He stated he doesn't know how many specific lots have wetland designations there but they would like that to be known to everyone here. He stated he is also concerned with the traffic. He stated he has had friends coming to visit them hit a deer in that location. He stated his wife has come home on a couple of different occasions and hit deer that have been lying in the road. He stated the speed limit posted at 40 mph, Mr. Cooley is certainly correct in saying that people travel in access of that all the time. He stated he


thinks that if you were actually out there and drove down CR 550 N. and so the dip in the road you would see that it does present a hazardous situation.

Mary Lou Young stated she lives at 559 Wedgwood Dr. She stated she too voices the same concerns as listed before. She stated when she was in the process of building her home it was a concern to her when she took her house plans to the Environment Office by the Airport for approval. She stated there was a lot of confusion and they weren't going to give her approval because they thought her property was on the property in which the proposed building is going on and it had designated wetlands on it. She stated she was just curious to find out how this subdivision, if it gets approval, how it is going to get around the issue of wetlands. She stated again the amount of traffic that this is going to present; this is a county road issue. She stated there are ditches on either side. She stated she is not sure when you decide that roads should be improved but with increased traffic on the type of road that is there that is also a concern.

Rick Burns stated he lives at 573 Wedgwood Dr. He stated he lives in Wedgwood Park, lot 7. He stated he has several concerns. He stated he would like to restate the concerns that were spoken before about the entrance. He stated it will come out in a low area between two high points. He stated there are two high points and this is where the entrance to Wedgwood Park East and Wedgwood Park is located. He stated pulling out of his subdivision, Wedgwood Park, is very difficult. He stated sometimes you get out three or four feet into the roadway and then you see the vehicles coming you have to stop your vehicle. He stated he has had several near misses. He stated also when it is sunny it is much worse. He stated he understands that they did a distance survey. He stated they need to take into consideration the dip and the two hills. He stated it is a very heavily traveled roadway, especially between 4:30 a.m. until 7:30 a.m. and between 4:30 p.m. to about 6:30 p.m. He stated there are a lot of wetlands in this area and they are going to be replaced by only two ponds. He stated he is not sure if this is calculated properly or what. He stated it is hard to believe only two ponds. He stated also the slope of the ponds appear to be 2 to 1. He stated there are a lot of children in the area with the two subdivisions and a possible third one. He stated he is concerned about this. He stated again he is on lot 7 and he is concerned about surface drainage. He stated his lot is low in the back yard and he gets a lot of drainage in his back yard right now, including surface drainage and septic leakage. He stated he has leakage going across his back yard now. He stated there have been several septic failures in his subdivision


including his own. He stated he had to bring in about ten loads
of clay to cover his septic from leaking. He stated his neighbor's is leaking now. He stated the neighbor across the street had to repair his septic system. He stated he thinks that Mrs. Young had to bring in he doesn't know how many truckloads of dirt. He stated she pretty much made a mound in her back yard. He stated he is concerned about the runoff from this property and if the septics do leak where is that septic going to go. He asked will it go across his back yard or in his back yard. He stated someone brought up the concern about the wells. He stated his well is 135 feet deep and he has been there roughly nine years and he would have to change his filter once every 6 months. He stated he changes his filter every 2 weeks just to keep it open because of the slurry it is picking up. He stated the table must be dropping.

Elizabeth Karas stated she lives at 563 Wedgwood Dr. She stated there is a tree line there and it looks like some of it will have to be removed. She stated she is concerned about disrupting the natural drainage in that area. She stated it goes down into a ravine and there is a wetland area right there where part of the road is going to go through. She stated she did speak with the Army Corps of Engineers and she knows that they have to get a permit. She stated they basically told her that it is not by law that it can have a biological affect on all the trees and this ravine and they are just concern about their water and their septic.

Jim O'Brien stated he lives at 130 W. 625 N. He stated his property is actually on the northern edge. He stated it is the wooded area. He stated there are two existing subdivisions right now. He stated the septic and drainage all drains essentially north down through the wooded area. He stated there are actually two other property owners here that abut his land and they all own ten and twenty acres back there. He stated at times the water table can go from zero to chest high draining down from that area and the septic smell is pretty strong. He stated it is basically coming from the two existing subdivisions. He stated he doesn't think one more subdivision is going to help that. He stated there must be some type of ongoing issue with this particular land for a consistent odor. He stated he called the County Health Department about it and since some people have already mentioned it he doesn't know if it is the lay of the land or the design or wetland or nature that causes it because he is not an expert on this. He stated he can verify that streams are created that goes through all three of our properties, which amounts to about 40 acres. He stated he stated he is not in favor or against this subdivision but careful consideration obviously needs to be made of the septics as well as the wetland considerations. He stated


there is just a huge volume of water. He stated his kids can go
out and play in a river after it rains. He stated it has to go somewhere. He stated we can't just keep developing, developing and developing and not take into consideration how these are affecting…we can basically donate our land to the State or some type of park system because we can't use it. He stated it is all drainage. He stated he is worried that some of it is bad drainage for the animals or wildlife in the area.

Sophie Kalafatis stated she lives at 584 Shatz Dr. She stated one of the main concerns is how the connection to Shatz Drive is going to affect them. She stated right now they have a 20 mph speed limit and they have enough problems with their homeowners doing that speed. She stated a lot of kids live in the 27 homes that they have. She stated the other concern is drainage. She stated there is drainage going towards the edge of Wedgwood Park East that is supposedly going to be taken to their pond. She stated she would like to know how that is going to affect her.

Mr. Kremke stated he will talk about the wetlands first. He stated a portion of this property is under the jurisdiction of the Army Corps of Engineers. He stated they have had a wetlands scientist come out, John from Soil Solutions has been out there, who has also brought the Army Corps to concur with his delineation on the property. He stated that letter as well as a wetlands delineation was submitted through the TAC procedure to show that what they show is wetlands on here and has been confirmed by the Corps. He stated the area that they call wetlands primarily are confined to the low areas of the ravines that flow through this property. He stated the only issue that they have with those in development of this property is the road crossing of this ravine, which will require a permit from the Army Corps of Engineers. He stated with that being said there are no other wetland impacts according to the delineation. He stated drainage was a big concern as well and it was for them designing this parcel because everybody and their brother drains through this piece of property. He stated they are taking water from the north, water from the south and water from the east, a significant amount of water from the south and east. He stated they tried to design around that and bring it through their system. He stated nearly all of the off sight water is going through their system and being detained, which it doesn't have to be. He stated it could just bypass their system but they felt the responsible thing to do would be detain as much as they possibly could and they have done that. He stated, if they need to get into that in more detail they can do that later. He stated one other issue that he should mention is that Wedgwood Park East has a detention basin that really doesn't function all


that well. He stated he heard the water ponds and synthetic yards and the backs of lots 16 to 18 roughly. He stated that situation is going to be rectified as well so that the intent is that the water won't sit in those yards any more with the construction of this subdivision and it will be picked up finally. He stated traffic was another concern. He stated Mr. Cooley and Mr. Burns brought up traffic analysis. He stated he submitted a traffic sight distance analysis through the TAC process and they also supplied Mr. Schelling just this week with some additional information regarding this. He stated the analysis was done with a speed limit of 50 mph. He stated they knew that the speed limit is 40 mph but they also know that very few people drive the speed limit out there. He stated they did the analysis at 50 mph and they also performed that analysis with both wet and dry conditions. He stated the analysis showed that in both of those conditions the sight distance because they are at the bottom of the hill and they can see up and actually they are in a better location even in the Wedgwood entrance. He stated being at the top of the hill its sight distance to the east is much less than this one would be and they had more than adequate sight distance. He stated he can get into more detail and he has some supplemental information as well if the Commission needs it for the record. He stated what it shows is to the east, the requirement is at 3.5 feet at height, at 3.5 feet a distance can see another object 3.5 about 700 feet, which is approximately at Shatz Drive. He stated the required distance for the parameters that he specified was only 386 feet. He stated to the west a distance, which the vehicle can see, is 565 feet and the required distance at 50 mph was only 386 feet. He stated this development does exceed the standard established by the State of Indiana and Federal Highway. He stated he has a few here if anyone from the Commission needs them. He stated for Mr. Burns concerning the slope in the ponds they always try to keep their pond design at least 3 to 1 and they also try to design safety shelves into the pond at about 3 feet of height so if someone does get in there they can still stand in only 3 feet of water. Mr. Kremke stated he will mention something about the soils on this site. He stated the soils on the south end of the site are pretty typical for the soils that we see in Center and Liberty Township. He stated typical minimum size of acre usable ground, typical septic sizes of 300 to 400 square foot per bedroom. He stated the further north you get they have probably 2/3 of the site that actually have soils good enough where they qualify for reduction in the acre standard of usable area. He stated they didn't take advantage of that and these lots are still well over an acre but the usable area could have been as low as 30000 square feet, which is roughly ¾ of an acre. He stated they do have pretty good soils for septic on the majority of this sight. He stated as for the entrance to Shatz Drive, in


designing in the County there has always been an effort to make connectivity of roads. He stated we don't have a bunch of single road subdivisions. He stated they have been directed to do that throughout the years and that is basically done for an emergency services standpoint so that if one entrance is blocked there is another way to get in for emergency services. He stated because of that there was an available connection to Shatz Drive that connected to an existing road so that not only do the people in Vernon Woods benefit from that the people in Wedgwood East also benefit from that. He stated right now it is a single entrance subdivision. He stated again the idea was to connect something to the west to what is now a vacant piece of property but to provide connectivity in the future when and if that parcel is ever developed. He stated he has no information on the wells right now.

Mr. Cooley stated he is trying to visualize the line of sight and what Mr. Kremke is saying. He stated he is on the hill to the east side and he knows what his line of sight is with the speed of the cars. He stated he has pulled out of the subdivision on the west side, which is also on the next hill. He stated he can't understand how you can be in the valley and have a better line of sight than you can up on the hill. He stated the other subdivisions have deceleration lanes for the westbound traffic to get in. He stated he didn't notice any decel lanes on the plat. He asked if there are decel lanes planned.

Mr. Karas stated he doesn't know if this can be specifically answered at this point but the name of the subdivision is Vernon Woods. He stated how many trees will be removed.

Mr. Burns stated from what he understands this State Standard for the distance study is only a guideline. He stated you need to take into consideration the environment on CR 550 N. He stated the subdivision will be coming out on a low area between two subdivisions. He stated again with the wetlands, it is hard to believe that there are only two detention ponds to replace the wetlands. He stated another concern is the sloping of the lots and the septic systems. He stated most of those lots are sloping and that could possibly cause the septics to leak. He stated he has a slopping lot and he had a septic problem and most of the people out there that had septic problems have slopping lots. He stated after it rains you can't go in his back yard because of the odor. He stated the far north end of his property is eroding from the rain. He stated in the last four to five years he has lost about four feet of his property. He stated there is a lot of drainage out there.



Mrs. Young stated Mr. Kremke referred to a water system for Vernon Woods. She asked if there is any system for drainage. She
asked if there were any plans that she could look at. She stated she hasn't seen any plans for a drainage system.

Mr. Wells stated when they are talking about the line of sight he is not sure how they would do a survey. He asked if the line of sight is from the middle of the road or is it actually from where you are trying to pull out from the subdivision because the distances Mr. Kremke was quoting if you look at the lots and add up the length of the lots, according to what Mr. Kremke was talking about you would actually be able to see from Wedgwood Dr. to Wedgwood East, from entrance to entrance. He stated that is 573 feet. He stated if you add the two lots together plus the road he believes that comes to about 600 feet. He stated he is not sure how they do their surveys but you have to stand in the middle of the road to actually be able to see the line of sights.

Mr. Burns stated if you had a vehicle turning into this new subdivision and cars trying to go around the vehicle until it makes it's complete turn, if that happens he is at the crest of a hill heading for oncoming traffic. He stated he thinks that we are asking for problems. He stated this is a real safety concern.

Mr. Kremke stated as for the trees they are expensive to remove. He stated he doesn't think a developer is going to want to pay to remove all the trees to clear a site. He stated of course they are going to be removed where the road is and where the detention basins are and where the homes will be built. He stated part of the draw of the property is the trees and it is a marketing benefit. He stated Mr. Burns mentioned two detention basins were replacing wetlands and this is not their intended purpose. He stated their purpose is to intercept both the water from this subdivision and the water from outside this subdivision and release it at the allowable rate. He stated they are not intended to replace wetlands because we are not filling in wetlands other than the crossing for the ravine and it is not a large amount of wetlands for that. He stated the wetlands are contained in the bottom of the ditch and that has been confirmed by the Army Corps of Engineers and a letter has been submitted to TAC from the Corps showing that confirmation. He stated there may be more wetlands on adjacent property but doesn't necessarily mean that they are on this property. He stated septic problems on slopping lots was actually a concern as they went through TAC and because of the slopes on this property they mapped out slopes that were in access of the permitted slope for septics and provided that to the Health Department so that when they issue septic permits on these parcels they know what to stay away from


and people know where not to place septic systems. He stated the borings were taken outside of those areas and that issue was looked into very carefully throughout the design process and for TAC. He stated Mr. Burns also had some issues with erosion and this isn't indicative of this development but indicative, perhaps, of how Wedgwood was designed and how its drainage was handled and not how this development was handled. He stated their development in his opinion is dealing with the storm water much more responsibly and that it is also dealing with storm water from the adjacent development and the properties around them that perhaps wasn't handled in a sufficient manner as it needed to be when those developments were designed and built. He stated they do have drawings and Ms. Young is free to give him a call and she can come and look at the design. He stated concerning the sight distance. He stated the distance used for sight distance are based on survey distances and the placement of cars was actually where they would be if you were driving. He stated you are sitting here at Shatz Dr. or Wedgwood or you are sitting at the entrance to Vernon Woods and another car is on the hill. He asked how far can you see. He stated it is based on the survey and like he said an object 3.5 feet above, which is approximately where a head might be. He stated say for instance you are sitting here waiting to come out as opposed to maybe sitting here where you might be on Wedgwood. He stated your sight distance here, obviously, is going to be much greater than your sight distance here because now you drove to the top of the hill. He stated this is the nature of what they have now on this piece of property. He stated that is why the distances show that they exceed what the requirements are of the parameters are.

Mr. Breitzke asked Mr. Kremke to demonstrate this to the Commission members.

Mr. Kremke stated say for instance you are down here at the bottom of the hill and things rise up and go down. He stated they are closer to the bottom of the hill than Wedgwood is where it comes out. He stated if there is a car up here this is a shorter sight distance because they are closer to the top of the hill than way down here, which is another sight distance, which gives you more time and more road length to make a decision or choose to pull out. He stated this is why he is sure it is much more difficult to pull out of the Wedgwood entrance because of that. He stated it is higher up on the hill and your sight distance is shorter.

The public hearing was then closed.

Commissioner Harper stated he has no questions.

Mr. Poparad stated he has no questions.

Mr. Bucko stated it sounds to him that the Corps has given approval and we have that from TAC that wetlands isn't a problem. He stated he guesses that the amount of water that runs through here and he guesses what he is hearing and it is not Mr. Kremke's fault that other subdivisions are running raw sewage on top of the surface of the ground here when we have rains we have some failures here. He stated he is concerned about them compounding that. He stated just as his feelings might be is the County doing what it is suppose to do in relationship to having failing septic tanks. He stated this is one thing. He stated the other side is that we have seeping septic systems within the other subdivision and is the County doing anything about that. He stated this guy is going to have the burden of fixing problems that may not even be his and this concerns him also. He stated he took a drive down through CR 550 N. and he didn't have time to go back to other subdivisions where we found visual problems as far as distances were concerned. He asked if this is much like or as severe as the CR 250 W. stretch of road from Joliet Road going north to the railroad tracks.

Mr. Breitzke stated Mr. Bucko is talking about Brigadoon.

Mr. Bucko stated he is concerned about the distances there and he was trying to compare the two of them. He stated it makes sense what Mr. Kremke said in his descriptions. He stated if there is an entrance to the east and or to the west that is closer to the crest of the hill yet not at the top of the hill you obviously being at the bottom of the hill have a longer look at the cars.

Mr. Biddinger stated his major concern is the soil slopes and the soil types. He stated when you are associating with wetlands often your permeability is lower. He stated something else that really bothers him is that if you have a septic system fail in one of these houses and it is not if, it is probably more likely when, it could be twenty or thirty years down the road, what do you do then with the slopes on some of this property. He stated some of these lots do not have a second back up location for septic systems. He stated he can't see it on the map. He stated with the severity of the slopes it can be a definite problem with the failure of septic systems and looking twenty years down the road. He stated the other thing is not to far from this location he dealt with a homeowner who also has a septic tank floating out of the ground. He stated that might be a development problem or it might be some other issue but it is a similar soil type to what would be found here.

Mr. Kremke stated he was very concerned about the soil slopes and the types in designing this just because this is a


high slope piece of property in a lot of ways. He stated this is why even though they could take advantage of the 30,000 square feet of useable area they didn't in those cases to allow for more room. He stated they also mapped out the unusable area as based on slope and provided it to the Health Department to keep in their file for this development so that they can counsel people. He stated the whole idea was to leave enough room on these lots for a back up system. He stated the nature of it is if they qualify for 30,000 square feet instead of an acre, which is 43,000 square feet, means the soil conditions are better and there is better permeability in the soils, which means their septics should function better. He stated the wetlands are confined to the bottom of the ravine. He stated the Corps concurred that there are no wetlands upland on this entire property. He stated there is one area that they show on lots 1 and 2, and this is where the water from the south used to drain through this property and it is deposited material over time that isn't used for septics and this is why you see these lots as large as they are because that area was excluded from the usable area.

Mr. Mahnic stated he has a number of problems but they most likely can be overcome. He stated he knows that they have time before the final to get in some more borings. He stated he thinks that there are about seven or eight lots that they have only two borings. He stated that kind of reinforces what was said a little bit ago. He stated he is concerned on where the septic system is going to be. He stated they also have about seven lots that are less than one acre. He stated he knows that they go by gross acre but he goes by net acres. He stated he doesn't think that this is consistent with Wedgwood East and Wedgwood Park. He stated they have larger lots. He stated he feels that this should be consistent with what is on both sides of you. He stated he feels that there is some room to make these bigger lots at the cost of one or two lots. He stated they could also satisfy him when the final comes in with three borings. He stated he is concerned with the traffic down that road. He stated he has been down that way. He stated safety does play a big part in here. He stated this development, like another development, has no green space for the kids to play. He stated he thinks that the developer should consider putting some green space in for the kids to run around. He stated he doesn't think any developer is going broke when they develop something. He stated there is no other common area here. He stated the other thing that we do in this county is run the water down the streets. He stated he knows that John will do a good job of drainage. He stated he is familiar with Mr. Kremke's engineering, but he always discourages people in using the streets as a raceway for water. He stated he thinks that they should have adequate catch


basins so that they can run and direct the water off the road as quickly as possible. He stated these are dedicated roads and this means that the taxpayers are going to foot the bill as the roads erode.

Mr. Kremke stated he like to sleep at night when it rains and he really likes to lie there and listen to it and not have to worry about something flooding and it is his fault. He stated they go to great lengths to do drainage. He stated they also do what is called a gutter-spread calculation, which spaces the inlets, which he is sure that this isn't very typical. He stated it is becoming more typical as TAC is enforcing it. He stated it says that the water can get three inches deep and can only get five feet wide before it has to get into a catch basin. He stated you will see their catch basins are spaced very close together because of that and this tells them how far to space them apart. He stated there aren't any lots under an acre. He stated all the lots are over an acre, but the useable soil acre is under an acre because you have to subtract from that. He stated slopes over 15%, easements and other issues. He stated the lots range from 1 to 2.5 acres. He stated like he said they could have gone down to ¾ of an acre for septic area and they didn't. He stated they stayed above that. He stated these lots are comparable to what is around them. He stated in fact some of them are larger to what is around them.

Mr. Mahnic stated he knows that they are more than an acre but you can't build in the easement and you can't build on the slope. He stated regardless on how big the lot is the buildable site is less than an acre.

Mr. Kremke stated it is in the developments next door as well. He stated this is the nature of it. He stated they know that they need some more borings and they are required at this stage to have 50% of the lots bored. He stated they have well above that but there are a few lots that need a few more borings. He stated if it shows that they need to move a lot or increase a lot or loose a lot than they will do that when it comes to final plat. He stated the soil scientist has told them that there is enough borings out there and he feels comfortable with what they designed and it should work. He stated he doesn't know if they can talk any more on the traffic. He stated he understands about the green space but until there is an ordinance you aren't going to get developers to dedicate a lot of green space. He stated most of the time they design one to two acre lots and most people don't feel that there is a need to have the lots bigger. He stated the lots are big enough for the kids to play in.

Mr. Mahnic stated you have a lot over here that is .79


acres, lot 19. He stated he wants to see Mr. Kremke's children run around in the back yard. He stated that is not much room there. He stated there are a lot of people who like small lots and maybe a lot of people will buy this. He stated he still feels that as a developer and as an engineer for this developer you could have given them a little more space. He stated this doesn't mean that this Body isn't going to approve this. He stated this Body still has to approve the secondary. He stated if we don't like the secondary you will be starting all over.

Mr. Detert stated he visited this area earlier today. He stated he was told that there are septic problems in the area and he knows that this is a Health Department issue but he specifically looked for that and he could see areas where the snow has melted and the grass was very, very green. He stated there are obviously septic problems in the area. He stated he was amazed at the fact that there is a large ravine in there and what appeared to be a 4-foot pipe. He stated he hasn't seen it in the Spring but he can only imagine how much water flows through there in heavy rains. He asked Mr. Kremke if he said that the developer was not going to pay for cleaning any of the area of the falling trees. He stated there is a lot of stuff in there that is going to impede the flow. He stated he thinks that relative to the safety issue on the roadways it just seems like a terrible place to put another entrance in. He stated two entrances there is probably not the greatest and to put a third one in there is just going to compound it. He stated if traffic on that road was only 50 mph, he expects that people go 60 and maybe even 70 mph. He stated it looks like to him that putting another entrance on that roadway right there is a bad idea. He stated he thinks that with the terrain and with the substantial water that flows through here he would agree with Frank that this looks more like a place where you would have estate like lots where you would make very large lots and minimize the septic and water problems but apparently the water table is very high. He stated he thinks that it is a terrible place to put a subdivision from his observations.

Mr. Detert moved to deny Case 04-P-1. Mr. Mahnic seconded the motion.

Discussion:

Mr. Breitzke stated he would like to mention the subdivision requirements for septic have gotten more stringent as time has gone by and we have had other improvements in septic technology. He stated the soils out there are very interesting. He stated they change just in a very short distance. He stated he is troubled about the traffic situation too. He stated he


would encourage a lot more traffic design at the entrance and maybe even more tapered.

Mr. Kremke stated rather than deny this and kill this could you remand it back to TAC. He stated it would be much more conducive to the outcome rather than just deny it.

Mr. Mahnic stated when we deny it we have to come up with a valid reason.

Mr. Kremke stated they tried to conform to the requirements and if it is an issue he would like the chance to address those issues rather than to get into a litigious situation as well.

Mr. Detert stated it just looks to him like it isn't a good place to put a subdivision. He stated he thinks that eventually houses can be built in there. He stated he thinks that they would have to be larger lots because of the water table from what he saw today. He stated he thinks that there is a safety issue on that road right now and he knows that this developer is not responsible for the other two subdivisions but now do we complicate the matter by putting a third entry way in there.

Mr. Breitzke stated we have a motion and a second. He stated we will have to withdraw the motion if we are going to do that.

Mr. Thompson stated as the rules of procedure states they cannot come back for one year unless after three months they can come back and show to the Plan Commission that they have made changes and if the Plan Commission deems they are significant changes then the Plan Commission can then lift the year requirement.

Motion carried on the following ballot vote:

Biddinger - Yes Bucko - Yes Detert - Yes
Mahnic - Yes Poparad - Yes Harper - Yes
Breitzke - Yes

Mr. Detert stated the reasons for the denial are safety and the roadway that it is exiting on coupled with the other exits; the heavy water flows in the area and we need to be extremely careful in developing any further in that area and to make sure that the water is controlled favorably.

Case 04-P-2. Petition of Duneland Development Group, LLC, P.O. Box 1374, Portage, Indiana seeking primary plat approval for
Eagle View Subdivision to be located on the Southwest corner of


CR 100 N. and CR 250 W. between CR 325 W. and CR 250 W. in Center
Township, Porter County, Indiana. (To contain 24 lots on 14± acres. Property is zoned R-1 and R-3.)

Karen Tallian stated she is the attorney for Duneland Development Group and this is John Hannon the engineer for the project. She stated they are here today asking for approval of primary plat for Eagle View Subdivision. She stated the subdivision is approximately 14.5 acres located at the corner of CR 100 N. and Tower Road. She stated they have been here before for a rezone. She stated this parcel currently consists of 9.75 acres are divided into 23 residential lots and there is one lot, lot 24, which is the large parcel about 4.67 acres that is R-3. She stated they have been to the Porter County Commissioners and have received the R-3 zoning in that parcel. She stated they initially had some questions when they were here the first time about where they were going to put access to this subdivision. She stated they worked out those issues and they now have one roadway from Tower Road that enters the subdivision and will be a dedicated public road. She stated eventually there will be a spur from that interior road that leads up into lot 24. She stated when that is developed that will be a private road that is within lot 24's grouping. She stated they are very happy to say that they are here in a subdivision that has both sewer and water. She stated they have sewers from the sewer treatment plant that serves Aberdeen. She stated they have water from the City of Valparaiso. She stated as you can see the road runs under the NIPSCO highline easement. She stated they have a commitment from NIPSCO to cross the easement. She stated they do have those documents although it is not legally finalized but they do have a commitment letter. She stated as of right now they believe that all of the 23 single-family lots are over 11,000 square feet and they are all over the minimum. She stated they are all buildable without variance. She stated they think that they have met all of the requirements of the Porter County Zoning Ordinance and Building Ordinance and they are here to ask for approval. She stated Mr. Hannon can answer the technical questions.

John Hannon stated this property is pretty much at a high point in the drainage basin. He stated they will collect all of the water that is generated in the development and collect it into a storm sewer system and put that into a detention pond, which will then release into a system that exists, a 48-inch pipe that exists under CR 250 W. He stated they have in consultation with Mr. Breitzke's office design the detention pond for a 5-year pre-development outflow rate as opposed to the required 10-year. He stated in other words the detention system is larger than required by the code. He stated they have done this in an effort
to be neighborly. He stated at the 100-year flow rate at their


discharge rate that will be allowed out of their detention system the flow through the 48-inch pipe going under CR 250 W. will be right around two feet per second. He stated this is a very slow rate even at the most severe 100-year event. He stated a couple of things that they should point out is lots 1, 2 and 3 back up to hole #8. He stated they will not access the new cul-de-sac. He stated they will have driveways onto CR 100 N. He stated they have conducted sight distance measurements. He stated the minimum sight distance from lot 3 to the crest of the hill to the east of that lot is 440 feet. He stated this is far in excess of the actual requirement. He stated they will group the driveways for lot 2 and lot 3 and lots 1, 2 and 3 will require to have turnarounds so that any time you exit from those driveways you will be facing forward rather than backing out onto the county road. He stated all of the other lots will access the new west court road. He stated they do have proposed covenants for this subdivision including a minimum of 2000 square foot floor plan excluding the garage. He stated landscape plans will be required to be submitted to the developer for review and approval before construction. He stated mailboxes and exterior post lights will all be consistent. He stated driveways will be required to be concrete and or brick. He stated Karen told you that we have sanitary sewers and they will have a lift station. He stated this will have to be reviewed and approved and ultimately accepted by the Nature Works Conservancy District. He stated they have an acceleration and deceleration lane proposed for the new intersection with CR 250 W. including a passing blister for north bound traffic. He stated he thinks that everyone knows where this is located. He stated we are on the golf course and they have some beautiful golf course frontage lots. He stated they tried to depict that in their exhibit. He stated on the drawing and the packet that you have received they are showing a typical cross-section for the road that will be constructed. He stated this will be a road with curbs and gutters and they are proposing to put in sidewalks throughout the entire subdivision. He stated the smallest lot is just over 11,000 square feet. He stated the largest lot is just under a half of an acre.

Jeff Blanco stated he lives at 97 N. Tower Road. He stated he has the property that makes up in between the dotted lines on the right and the back north of that too. He stated he appreciates John's approach to the drainage issue. He stated basically what happens there is that all the water that comes through Aberdeen as well as through this will drain into his property. He stated he will still recommend that there is a much more functional drainage ditch that goes to the east of the property, it runs in front of the "Links" down there then on out. He stated the drainage ditch actually goes under CR 250 W. is at
best 12-inches wide and is not capable of handling any more water


than it already does. He stated because they also get all of the drainage from Aberdeen and their properties in the back are completely flooded at this point in time because of the drainage from Aberdeen. He stated they would appreciate at least half of that water, which are on the left side where the NIPSCO power lines are could easily be drained into the drainage ditch that goes down CR 100 N. He stated in addition to that he was really amazed at the comments in the last proposal that was presented before this one. He stated they were very similar issues that they have here that Mr. Burns did a great job articulating. He stated the traffic problem is significantly challenging. He stated in fact in the County's old Land Use Plan this particular segment is quoted as being "most overused segment of roadway in the county" with a ratio of 1.35 over 1, which to this date remains to be the most overused segment and so we continue to have the problem. He stated therefore the only entrance and exit to this particular development is on CR 250 W., which will only compound the problem. He stated it is interesting also that they have the same issues at CR 250 W. in terms of the hill. He stated to the left it slants up and to the right it slants up to Aberdeen and the traffic lines are very challenging there. He stated they would propose instead of having that access on CR 250 W. to have it on CR 100 where it is a clear line all the way through. He stated the traffic on CR 250 W. would turn right onto CR 100 N. and then enter into the subdivision. He stated that would offload all of the visibility issues as well as additional traffic problems onto CR 250 W. He stated the other issue he has and to repeat what Frank Mahnic mentioned here is that there is no useable green space for the people in this area. He stated the golf course is within the plans stated as the green space. He stated clearly the kids can't run out onto the golf course and enjoy the open spaces that are part of it. He stated there are no green spaces that are counted here. He stated he would also like to mention that they have a sewage problem. He stated this box here, underneath where the R-3 is, it says Natures Conservancy Works and it is a great name for a sewer treatment plant. He stated this flows into their creek as well too and to the waterway and the wetlands all the way back here so they will be picking up the drainage from here, which the EP has come out and cited several times for out of spec as well as the overflow from the chemicals and things that move up to here into our wetlands to cause those problems there. He stated he does appreciate the fact that they are putting in a larger detention pond. He stated there is a wetland delineation as part of this thing that they would like to see accounted for which is not here. He stated this runs along CR 250 W. He stated it is clearly marked. He stated it is unclear as to where exactly how that will be impacted by this plan but that is a concern as well
too. He stated he thinks that these things could be addressed


with drainage that moves down CR 100 N. and entrances into here. He stated it is very unclear how this will be accessed later on in the development.

Owen Compton stated he lives at 252 W. 100 N. He stated provided that all these lots sell around there is there a possibility that there could be a barrier around that property such as tree lines or a privacy fence.

Mr. Hannon stated with regards to the drainage Mr. Blanko is correct a portion of the property does drain to the east. He stated if you are familiar with the property there is some significant terrain that is involved here. He stated significant parts of lots 1, 2 and 3 do drain to the east and will continue to drain to the east. He stated the rest of the property for the most part drains to a 48-inch culvert under CR 250 W. He stated there is really no way to change where the water wants to go. He stated all they can do is deal with it. He stated the proposal to deal with it is to put a modern storm sewer in and connect that to a detention system that is oversized relative to the County standard and to release that water. He stated the size of the culvert that will be coming out of the detention pond is an 18-inch culvert. He stated the size of the culvert under CR 250 W. is a 48-inch culvert. He stated they are significantly holding up the water and they are committed not to exceed a 5- year predevelopment flow rate. He stated with regards to traffic he has to disagree with Mr. Blanco. He stated CR 100 N. has a hill on it and that hill would create more of a sight line issue than CR 250 W. He stated CR 250 W. to the south of proposed West Port has a sight line of well over 1000 feet. He stated to the north they have a sight line all the way to the three-way stop. He stated he thinks that this is a very logical place to put that road and they are proposing acceleration and deceleration lanes and a passing blister. He stated in regards to green space this is a beautiful site and it opens up onto Aberdeen Golf Course. He stated there is not going to be any development along the whole side of it. He stated that is the open space. He stated this is a big open view site. He stated when you get to the top of some of these lots you can see 360º in all directions. He stated all that he can say about Nature Works Conservancy District is that they have met with the Board. He stated the engineer that works for the District has indicated that they have a lot of excess capacity. He stated they have a letter from Dave Hollenbeck the attorney for the Conservancy District…their property is within the conservancy district and they have a letter of commitment to take the sewage that comes from this site subject to meeting their technical requirements. He stated they do have wetlands on the property and they have been delineated. He stated they have
had the Corps of Engineers on the site. He stated they have a


letter from the Corps of Engineers indicating they agree with the delineation that was prepared. He stated they will be impacting some of those wetlands. He stated the impact will be less than one-tenth of one acre. He stated they have to impact it to get the road into the property. He stated that application has already been submitted to the Corps of Engineers. He stated if you stay under one-tenth of an acre on impacts of wetlands it is a Nationwide Permit and they can't build until they get that. He stated in terms of a barrier or a privacy fence they didn't have any plans to do anything up there and he is not certain as the developer that he could presume to put something there for the people that are going to be building on those lots that are going to back up to Mr. Compton's property. He stated they are lots 14, 15, 16 and 17. He stated he really doesn't know what to say about that. He stated at this time they have no plans to put up any screening between the proposed subdivision and Mr. Compton's property.

Ms. Tallian stated where Mr. Compton's property is the terrain falls off there. She stated Mr. Compton's property is higher and the lots slope down and where the road comes in you would access those lots from the road. She stated they would be at a significantly lower elevation than Mr. Compton's property is anyway. She stated she is not sure if a fence is even necessary.

Mr. Hannon stated they are committed in the covenants to require a landscaping plan for each of the lots. He stated he supposes that with those four lots they could write something more specific into the covenants for those four lots requiring that some amount of green barrier, he wouldn't want to require a fence, be put in along those back property lines.

Mr. Blanco stated Mr. Hannon is absolutely correct. He stated the culvert that is associated with the drainage is not an issue at all. He stated the issue is ditches that are required to move the water. He stated it was never built as a ditch. He stated it was the result of a natural spring that runs out of the property that is in the R-3 there. He stated it was never created by the County to move water. He stated it is not a county or manmade ditch and it is really only 12-inches wide. He stated the problem is that once it goes through that 20-feet it is an issue as to whether or not the ditches can handle them. He stated the fact is that where that road is indicated there a statement that says it is a clear line all the way to the three-way intersection is relatively true. He stated except all the way is only a few hundred feet. He stated therefore it is a very difficult intersection to begin with. He stated there have been numerous accidents and even deaths within the last five years.
He stated he would strongly recommend alleviating any additional


traffic in a stated challenged area to move that to CR 100 N. where there actually, at that cul-de-sac there, there is a straight line of sight from directly north of it that cul-de-sac is right down CR 100 N. and it would take a significant amount of the safety issues away from the problem that they have here today.

Mr. Compton stated Jeff is correct when he said that it is a very highly used area. He stated he doesn't know if this is the right answer or the wrong answer or if there is another alternative. He stated her daughter was in a very bad accident and his driveway is 150-feet from the end of that road and this is where she got hit at.

Mr. Hannon stated this intersection is consistent with where they talked about putting it when they were here discussing the rezone and they have a letter from the County Highway Engineer acknowledging this subdivision. He stated they have the Road Agreement that was provided to them by the County Engineer and they have been through TAC. He stated they think that this is the right place to put this road and they think it is a good safe location. He stated the sight lines are adequate and they are going the further step to putting in fully engineered acceleration and deceleration lanes and a passing blister at the point of intersection.

The public hearing was then closed.

Mr. Bucko stated in reference to the safety of that road where it is and understanding that there is actually a stop sign a few hundred feet away from there and the fact that the other piece of property did not have the same acceleration and deceleration lanes and blisters that this one does in his mind he doesn't see that to be as much of an issue pertaining to this particular subdivision. He stated he feels that John going beyond the parameters required by the County for the pond is an excellent idea. He stated he thinks that maybe we have a case here where if the ditches aren't adequate maybe when the subdivision is developed the county needs to consider cleaning those ditches out at that point in time and making it more capable of handling the water.

Mr. Burns stated he understands that the intersection used to have a three-way stop sign and that is removed now or is it still a three-way stop sign.

Mr. Hannon stated CR 100 N. and CR 250 W. is a three-way stop sign.



Mr. Burns asked if there was a traffic study done on CR 100 N. for the line of sight comparing the two roadways.

Mr. Hannon stated they have the line of sight for the proposed three driveways on CR 100 N. and the line of sight for CR 250 W. is clear to the stop sign, which is a little over 300-feet from the stop sign to this proposed intersection. He stated it is over 1000-feet to the south.

Mr. Detert asked which way the line of sight was clear 1000-feet.

Mr. Hannon stated to the south.

Mr. Mahnic stated he argued against rezoning this parcel of land but the County Commissioners voted to rezone it. He stated his issue is now with the primary plat. He stated surprisingly he sees that they meet all the rules and regulations so he can't argue against any of that.

Mr. Breitzke stated they originally requested the petitioner to have road access all the way through. He stated generally speaking with transportation we want to make both connections because of looking at the roads the recommendation was really to stick more to CR 250 W. to alleviate CR 100 N. in the end. He stated generally there was some direction to avoid having those two points of conflict from the road to improve the traffic situation. He stated the drainage situation is one in which they have a natural watercourse coming out. He stated a natural waterway is still recognized as a drainage path by the State and it goes off into a wetland prior to getting into Clark Ditch. He stated Clark Ditch has a lot of beavers in it. He stated part of the drainage problem there is one more of blockage and the lack of ability of them to get access into where the beavers actually are because it is more onto private property. He stated if there is willing property owners to work with they try to get in but if they are not willing to because it involves trappers and other issues. He stated this is what they deal with. He stated typically the water all goes down into that wetland and eventually when it reaches the height of the beavers damn to Clark Ditch.

Mr. Poparad asked when this was rezoned.

Mr. Thompson stated in October.

Mr. Poparad asked if lot 24 was R-3.

Mr. Hannon stated yes it is.


Mr. Poparad asked if they were going to access straight out onto CR 250 W.

Mr. Hannon stated no. He stated it will access onto the new road between lot 13 and the detention pond.

Mr. Poparad asked if there was going to be any access from the R-3 to CR 250 W.

Mr. Hannon stated this is correct.

Mr. Poparad asked what the plans are for.

Mr. Hannon stated condominiums.

Mr. Thompson stated to Mr. Poparad that this is also in the form of a written commitment and it has been recorded with the ordinance that they can't have additional entrance for this out on CR 250 W.

Mr. Poparad asked if this was a NIPSCO tower easement.

Mr. Hannon stated yes.

Mr. Poparad asked if there was a pipeline in the ground.

Mr. Hannon stated no.

Mr. Poparad asked if they could use this for a road.

Ms. Tallian stated yes and they have it in writing.

Mr. Poparad stated he has to go with what they said about coming off of CR 100 N. rather than CR 250 W. He stated CR 250 W. is like a racetrack.

Mr. Hannon stated there is a plateau right here and this road comes up like this…

Mr. Poparad stated he is not talking about sight lines. He stated he is talking about the amount of traffic and the speed of the traffic. He stated CR 250 W. is a lot faster and has more volume than CR 100 N. He stated reroute the road and come down the easement, which you can't use anyway and make everybody's life a lot easier.

Mr. Burns stated that was his question. He asked if there was a sight study performed on CR 100 N. and what was the distance.


Mr. Poparad stated he is not talking about sight lines. He stated he is talking about traffic volume on traffic speed.

Commissioner Harper stated he has no questions.

Mr. Biddinger stated with the green space and the comment that you are using the Aberdeen Golf Course to account for green space. He stated we had a long debate on that concerning another particular parcel where they were using offsite facilities and counting that towards green space. He stated it is not such a big deal here but he believes Aberdeen has already spoken for that green space. He stated as far as the traffic goes he has real mixed feelings on zoning around traffic studies. He stated if everyone would just follow the rules, drive the speed limit, obey the stop signs accidents would be much more rare than they are now. He stated unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and this is part of his problem with trying to zone around traffic studies and such. He stated if we do that they he can find a traffic objection to just about every plan that comes in front of us. He stated you kind of have to take a chance in some cases and see what happens. He stated some of the times the design isn't as bad as it looks on paper and sometimes it is worse. He stated that is the job of this Commission to look at that and try to get the insight into that.

Mr. Mahnic stated when you were here for rezoning he did get a copy of what you wanted to rezone and how. He stated he thought for primary plat the members got a copy of the plat. He stated he didn't get one. He asked if the members are supposed to get a copy of the plat.

Mr. Thompson stated yes.

Mr. Mahnic stated he doesn't want to throw a monkey wrench because everything seems to be favorable.

Mr. Detert stated we keep running into this problem and he doesn't know where it happens. He stated people want to come here and we don't get plats to look at. He stated either we follow the rules and get the plats or we don't.

Mr. Mahnic asked Mr. Hannon if he recalls sending them out.

Mr. Hannon stated yes.

Mr. Breitzke asked how long ago did you send them out.

Mr. Hannon stated he would have to check on it.

Mr. Detert stated sometimes they send them out too soon and they get buried. He stated he would rather have them send it out shortly before the meeting.

Mr. Poparad moved to approve Case 04-P-2. Mr. Bucko seconded the motion, which carried on the following ballot vote:

Biddinger - Yes Bucko - Yes Burns - Yes
Detert - Yes Mahnic - Yes Poparad - Yes
Harper - Yes Breitzke - Yes


Mr. Thompson stated he wanted to point out to the members that in front of them are the Plan Commission "Rules of Procedure" and one is marked "old" and one is marked "new." He stated the difference is that we have changed the time from 7:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. He stated the other item was that there were concerns by members about having a yearly appointment for the Assistant Planner/Zoning Inspector. He stated this has been removed and the only people for yearly appointment are the Executive Director and the Staff Attorney. He stated you would be voting on removing the Assistant Planner/Zoning Inspector as a yearly appointment from this Commission and leaving it as an at-will employee.

Mr. Poparad moved to remove the Assistant Planner/Zoning Inspector as a yearly appointment from the Rules of Procedure. Mr. Bucko seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Thompson stated a committee interviewed for the Assistant Planner/Zoning Inspector position. He stated the recommendation has come forward for Mr. Fred Siminski to be the Assistant Planner/Zoning Inspector.

Mr. Bucko moved to approve Mr. Thompson to hire Fred Siminski as Assistant Planner/Zoning Inspector. Mr. Mahnic seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Thompson stated concerning the Discussion on Building Permit Fees, Alterations, Repairs or Remodels he will be changing this with an ordinance and he will also add the renewal fee for use variances and temporary certificate of occupancy. He stated he will be giving a report on "green space development" and there will be a number of questions that he thinks that everyone needs to look at and possibly answer before he goes further into the development of any ordinance on this.

Mr. Thompson stated he would like to send out letters to consultants and essentially request qualifications from firms so the Plan Commission can start reviewing for the Zoning and Subdivision Control Ordinances.

Mr. Poparad asked if Mr. Thompson was talking about the Master Plan.

Mr. Thompson stated yes.

Mr. Detert moved to have Mr. Thompson send out letters to consultants requesting qualifications from firms so the Plan Commission can start reviewing for the Zoning and Subdivision Control Ordinance. Mr. Bucko seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Thompson stated the last item is for the Consultant for litigation. He stated the name of the firm was Sommer, Barnard and Ackerson.

Mr. Burns moved to hire the Firm of Sommer, Barnard & Ackerson for consultants for litigation. Mr. Bucko seconded the motion, which carried on a unanimous voice vote.

There being no further business the meeting adjourned at 8:40 p.m.

PORTER COUNTY
PLAN COMMISSION

S/ Kevin Breitzke, President

Attest: Robert W. Thompson Jr., Executive Director/County Planner