July 31, 2009

The regular meeting of the Development Advisory Committee was held on July 31, 2009 at 9:00 a.m. in the Porter County Administration Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Those members present were Ray Joseph, Kevin Breitzke, Mike Haller, Tim Cole and Robert W. Thompson Jr.  Also present was Fred M. Siminski.

The following cases were heard by the Committee on this date:

Case 09-UV-12.  Pre-BZA review for the petition of Lewis & Julie Hoehn, 170 N. 500 W., Valparaiso, seeking a Use Variance from Section 2.11 of the Unified Development Ordinance, RR District Intent, Permitted Uses, to board horses with both indoor and outdoor riding areas, to be located at 170 N. 500 W., in Union Township.

Mr. Hoehn stated that he is the petitioner in this matter.  He stated that he would like to take an existing property that’s been used for horses since 1985 and to allow that facility to be used for outside boarding horses.  There will be no structure changes.  Everything is in place and intact.

Mr. Thompson asked if his residence is on the property.

Mr. Hoehn stated, yes.

Mr. Thompson asked how they are going to handle the animal waste.

Mr. Hoehn stated that Waste Management comes out once a week with a 5 cubic yard container.

Mr. Thompson asked, how many horses total?

Mr. Hoehn stated that they are probably going to use everything in one barn, so he thinks around 10.

Mr. Thompson asked, and not all of these will be yours?

Mr. Hoehn stated that 10 could be outside. At this point, they don’t have any.

Mr. Thompson asked if all structures are existing:  the riding arena and everything is existing?

Mr. Hoehn stated that he thinks they can probably make the large one work at this point in time. This used to be a racetrack and there’s one area, if you look at the aerial, you can see where it’s a limestone area around and that would be perfect for anybody riding, training, lessons from probably March all the way through October.  So I’m not sure at this time whether any indoor riding will be there.

Mr. Thompson asked, your residence, how much area is fenced out that is within the residence only and is not associated with the horses?  

Mr. Hoehn stated, these are the barns.  This is the house and this area in here is fenced.

Mr. Thompson asked if this front area up here is pasture for the horses, too.

Mr. Hoehn stated, yes.

Mr. Thompson asked, and your septic is in this area?

Mr. Hoehn stated, one septic is over here for the house.  The other septic is over here, which is for the barn.

Mr. Thompson asked if they are in the pasture areas.

Mr. Hoehn stated, no, not this one here.   It’s fenced, but it’s never been used as pasture.

Mr. Thompson asked if he intends on keeping it for pasture.

Mr. Hoehn stated, no.

Mr. Thompson stated that he just was concerned if…he thinks the code states that this area with a septic system has to be outside a fenced pasture area.

Mr. Hoehn stated, that’s all right, because this part here, even though it’s fenced, doesn’t even have to be used.  The reason it’s fenced is because we’ve got an area here, so we need a fence, and then an area here, so we need a fence.  This area here and just here is because we had to continue the fence when we put it in.   The area is about 350 feet from the road to the first barn.

Mr. Thompson asked, you just recently purchased the previous owner…

Mr. Hoehn stated, no, we purchased the property, which had a racetrack on it in 1991 and we’ve had horses when we lived elsewhere in 2002.

Mr. Thompson asked, the horses haven’t been on this for the entire time?

Mr. Hoehn stated that the horses have been on it up until October.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he’s glad to hear that he’s covering his disposal bins. If you have 14 horses, you’re going to come short as far as the manure storage.

Mr. Hoehn stated that Waste Management will pick up twice a week.  There is an area that’s probably about 15 feet by 15 feet that’s a concrete pad, which is specifically for storing containers.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he needs to be cautious about enough storage.  He’s glad to hear there is concrete under the bins, too.  That’s very important to keep those covered so the rain doesn’t go through them.

Mr. Hoehn stated another problem they run into is, if it thaws, and then it freezes, they can’t get the containers, if the container’s almost full and it sank into the ground and froze.

Mr. Breitzke stated that there aren’t any regulated drains near you. You’re right across from Shorewood Forest. You do have some waterways around the fringes of the watershed, I think, for Salt Creek. Is there a lake nearby?

Mr. Hoehn stated that there’s a small lake that’s probably 800 to 1,000 feet to the West.  When there used to be a racetrack, there was a big drain, because everything slopes to that one area and that drain then runs from that field into the lake and then the property owner that built on just the North side, they had their property also drain to a culvert that runs into (inaudible).

Mr. Breitzke stated, I just vaguely remember something towards the back. It’s pretty big, and that’s why I want to make sure there’s manure management so you’re not putting nitrates out.  Right now we’re having real bad problems with algae growth in our ponds, largely due to phosphorous and nitrates. You’re going to be boarding horses?

Mr. Hoehn stated, part, yes.

Mr. Breitzke asked, you’re not going to have outdoor storage of horse trailers, are you?

Mr. Hoehn stated, no. No horse trailers will be allowed, other than to pick up.

Mr. Breitzke stated, because this is so urbanized, a lot of people who have horses take them out for walks right at the stable.  We need to be careful that they’re not out on the roads and on other people’s property.

Mr. Hoehn stated that in the originally fenced area we have a complete perimeter fence, and then, in between that, there’s a cross fence, so anything that’s out in the field would have to go through two fences in order to be able to get out.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he was more concerned that his guests are aware of the private property around.

Mr. Haller stated that he visited the property and has written a letter to the BZA addressing the two structures that are out there.  They’re fine. They’re beautiful horse barns.  There was some concern about the size of the buildings and the proximity to the house and whether they’re fine.

Mr. Hoehn stated that everything meets safety standards.

Mr. Cole asked who owns the lake?

Mr. Hoehn stated Cecil Hardwick, the second property owner to the South.

Mr. Cole asked if he’s in full agreement with everything that’s going on.  Has he contacted him?

Mr. Hoehn stated that he contacted all the people.

Mr. Cole stated that there’s no topographical map here, no idea of a watershed.  He sees Pheasant Hills may be in line with maybe whatever flows out of that lake or maybe flows off his property.  Does he know for sure if that’s the case?

Mr. Hoehn stated, no.

Mr. Cole stated that he think it probably does, according to the Google terrain map. This water drains through Pheasant Hills and they have an unrestricted drain from the one pasture down to the lake; no forebays to capture any sediment.  The manure.  He’s a big proponent of composting. Where does Waste Management take this manure?

Mr. Hoehn stated that he doesn’t know.

Mr. Cole stated, probably to a landfill.

Mr. Hoehn stated that that’s a good possibility.

Mr. Cole stated that Taltree, just down the road, might be interested in some of that manure for their own composting efforts.  He stated that he should contact them and see if they would like at least a measure of that manure for their own purposes, put it to some good use.  Our fields are always using up the nutritional value in the ground and it must be replaced.   That’s why farm fields no longer produce and lie fallow.

Mr. Hoehn asked, isn’t there a problem if you have wood shavings that you’re using?

Mr. Cole asked if he uses wood shavings.

Mr. Hoehn stated that they have found that probably to be the best to be used.  It’s most expensive.

Mr. Cole stated, but you can filter it.  The thing with wood shavings is that it takes nitrogen to break down the wood.  It takes that nitrogen out of the manure and renders only certain other nutritional values of the manure available, but it still is an organic addition for the soil, which is just as important as all of the nutritional values.  It can be, if it’s stored with a measure of nitrogen, it will take care of that problem.  Aerating it, and not storing it in cubicles, would reduce the danger of e coli and any other anaerobic decomposition that’s taken place. When it’s in the container it has no air; it does not decompose properly.  Maybe he should consider forebays, or at least little dikes, to hold back some runoff.  

Mr. Hoehn stated that he’s not averse to it.  

Mr. Cole stated that he would recommend and advise to the BZA, for the record, that we consider different processes for the removal of the manure and maybe storage of the manure and that we further investigate the possibility of runoff getting into Pheasant Hills and exacerbating a problem that is already there. As a horse owner, it’s true, the fresh deposit of manure unleashes some ungodly odors.  However, aerating the dump removes those odors within eight hours. In a dumpster, those odors accumulate and will continue to do so until oxygen is introduced to that, probably in the landfill.  They’re going to be contained in a container.  If that container overflows or breaks open or if Waste Management accidentally releases some of that manure when they’re loading then you have that odor problem.  However, dumped on a concrete pad, aerated with a forklift, as I do it, eliminates that odor within hours.

Case 09-V-21.  Petition of Duneland School Corporation, 601 W. Morgan Avenue, Chesterton, seeking Variances from the following Sections of the Unified Development Ordinance:  5.22 LA-01 (D)(E) to eliminate the requirement for buffer yards; 5.24 LA-03, to eliminate Landscaping General Parking, from various areas near the school; 7.25 to waive the requirement for pedestrian network facilities; to vary Section 7.26 PL-01, Perimeter Landscaping Standards (Residential) and Section 7.27 PL-02 Perimeter Landscaping Standards (Commercial/Industrial); to vary Section 7.28 of the Stormwater Design Manual and Section VI (A)(1)(a) of the Stormwater Design Manual; 7.33 and 7.34, to eliminate the necessity to install street lights along CR 900 N.; to vary Section ST-01 Street Trees by elimination of the requirement to plant any street trees along 900 N.; to permit construction of an addition to the existing Liberty Elementary School, all to be located at 50-1 W. 900 N., in Liberty Township.

and

Case 09-UV-13.  Petition of Duneland School Corporation, 601 W. Morgan Avenue, Chesterton, seeking a Variance from Sec. 2.11 of the Unified Development Ordinance, RR District Intent & Permitted Uses, to permit construction of an addition to the existing Liberty Elementary School, to be located at 50-1 W. CR 900 N., in Liberty Township.

Randy Peterson, Mark McKibben, Bob Gerometta and Michael Harris stated that they are representing the petitioners in this matter. Mr. Harris stated that they are seeking a Use Variance.  When the UDO was passed, residentially zoned property did not accommodate schools. That is relegated to Institutional zones.  So, they are asking for a Use Variance in order to avoid going through a rezoning.  Ultimately, they expect to have that property rezoned to Institutional zoning. The standard Development Variances that they’re asking for principally involve landscaping and the concentration of landscaping. They are interested in avoiding traps for youngsters.  The landscaping ordinance requires 8 trees and 10 bushes every 100 feet around the perimeter and they ask that that be mitigated to every 300 feet.  They’d like to avoid the street trees in front of the school, because they think it’s important for youngsters to be observed along 900 N. and while these street trees are growing, they have a tendency to block the view from the motoring public to see the school and that’s a safety issue.  Mr. Peterson can explain the engineering details of the treatment of the water on this property.  Currently, as I understand it, with the existing schools have a storm sewer line that runs to Damon Run and adequately drains that property and the existing schools on there. They are asking not to have to redesign the entire drainage system for the entire school property, as the UDO might require, but rather only design for the new facilities that are going on the property.

Mr. Peterson stated that after talking with Mr. Haller yesterday morning, he had misunderstood the perimeter landscaping requirement.  He’s got a corrected plan.  The drainage plan has already been submitted to DLZ.

(Please excuse any errors in persons speaking as they did not identify themselves each and every time they spoke and because the table mike is very soft and hard to pick up everything.)

Mr. Peterson stated that this site has been around since the ‘60s.  It discharges directly into Damon Run and is adequate.  They are asking for a Variance not to eliminate that, but to quantify it only for this addition and any future work.  They don’t have to bring all the storm water into the detention basin.  They just want to quantify what’s there.  By doing that they are going to have to create a new detention basin. They don’t want to have to detain the storm water that’s already there; just what’s added to the site.

Mr. Thompson stated that he’s going to respectfully disagree with them on street trees, because street trees can also protect children from errant drivers along the road. Also, the perimeter pedestrian network standard is another one he’s struggling with, because of the fact that he’s been approached about the idea of looking at trying to get a pathway or safe routes to school, possibly connecting some of those neighborhoods that are going up, such as Timberland.  A few of those with a path along 900 N. trying to get the school children into the Liberty Schools.  It’s been looked at.

Mr. McKibben stated that they bus every child to that school.  No one walks.  The reason is because those existing subdivisions do not have sidewalks that direct the children along 900 N. at all.  The School Corporation has had a long history of developing sidewalks when they are required to be put in.  They’ve done so at what used to be Westchester Middle School, now known as the Intermediate School, but they found sidewalks to that school all along Fifth Street in Chesterton.  They also developed sidewalks to Brummitt School.  They went out and bought easements across people’s properties in order to develop the property.  When you build a sidewalk, you’ve got to maintain it. And a sidewalk that goes no place and serves no function to be maintained for 15 or so years, waiting for development to occur, they don’t think is an appropriate use of taxpayers’ money.  They would like to eliminate the necessity to build a sidewalk at this point in time, and keep a commitment to build sidewalks when they are useful.  It’s a matter of economics for them.

Mr. Thompson asked, if some of these developments do come in and they are able to get a pathway connected into the school grounds or we get a safe grounds to school app going and we are able to put a sidewalk down along 900 N. to the East, they would be willing to look at that?

Mr. McKibben stated, absolutely. He stated that they have an existing access to the property in the Southeast corner of it, which was put in by the landowners of Fox Chase Farms that comes in back towards the sewage treatment plant.  It’s on the rear of the property.  Because of that, they have a continuing policing issue on the property, with ATV’s, dirt bikes, small motorcycles, go-karts and students who don’t use it to walk to school, but just to get out of the subdivision and then run all over the property.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he hasn’t seen the drainage calculations yet. The representation would lead one to believe that the pond’s in a different position.

Mr. Peterson stated that this is a work in progress.  

Mr. Breitzke stated, also, it would appear that they have an existing storm line that goes under the proposed building.  They need to fill and demolish that line.  They don’t want any void under a building under any circumstances.  

Mr. Peterson stated, as far as he can tell, there’s a storm line that runs kind of along the overhead electric line.  He’s going to intercept that and wrap it around the building. I’m not going to block it off.  I won’t reroute it.

Mr. Breitzke stated, I always get concerned because historically there aren’t very good records of the old field tiles or tap-ons even for the other buildings in the school or the parking lot.  Just for clarification, you’re planning on putting storm water in for any additional surface.  You’re putting in erosion control measures; you’re not asking for a waiver. You’re taking the existing site and still enhancing it with basically the tougher standards for what we’re requiring for runoff for that addition.  The wastewater stream – are you close to making an agreement with Damon Conservancy?  I think your package plant is run fairly well, compared to most of the other package plants around the Damon Run, and it’s kind of been a goal of getting wastewater treatment out there to take these package plants off the stream and one of the reasons Mayor Olson, at the time the mayor of Portage, was agreeable to this, was to improve the water quality, because it all goes back to his city and became his problem. But it was also a water quality problem for Liberty Township, when all put together. It’s tough to maintain and police these small package plants, as you’re learned as an owner/operator. I agree with Mr. Thompson – I agree with the pedestrian ways, but if you’re agreeable to work with us if we have the safe routes to school…when Mr. Thompson brought up the street trees, I can understand your side of it for visibility and your safety issues, but Mr. Thompson has good arguments, too, about just the reverse.  But anything that would help the overall drainage of this area and Damon Run specifically, these are improvements overall.

Mr. Cole stated that while he agrees in principle with a lot of these things, he still has some questions.  Mr. Thompson has brought up the landscaping issue.  He does not feel that releasing them from a landscaping portion of the ordinance is in the best interests of either the school or the community, and we do have to think of the community as a part of this.  If anything, if we do negotiate the ordinance of landscaping with the school for your particular needs, he would suggest mitigation of landscaping.  If they don’t want to put trees every hundred feet in the front, then add trees to the rear, because you have a certain amount of property in the rear that could be beneficial to Damon Run as a whole, and he thinks we have to understand here that we’re not just looking at beauty in the trees.  We’re looking at habitat for animals, birds, and a number of other issues that are not just pretty to look at, but are valuable and a resource to our well-being.  They eat bugs and we don’t have to spray for those bugs. So he really would suggest that the BZA take a very hard look at the landscaping issue and consider some negotiation, not release.  And the fact, as those trees grow, you can cut the lower limbs and have the adequate visibility that you’re looking for, if you’re looking for shady individuals camped out waiting to snatch children or anything else of that nature. The greenery will reduce some air pollutants in the area.  We have to think of that.  Regarding sidewalks and the tax issues.  Seems to me, buses cost a lot more money to the taxpayers than sidewalks.

Mr. McKibben stated, I’d agree with you, but he had this discussion the day he met with Mr. Joseph.  We live in a society now where, no matter how many sidewalks we put in in the school districts and no matter how much we try to encourage people to walk to school – and we provide them buses to go to school on – we live in a society where mom and dad are so fearful of having their students stand at bus stops, that not only do they not ride our buses that we provide, they ride in their cars, with maybe mom or dad or mom and one student and end up dropping them off at school.  It seems that no matter what our best efforts are to try to get people to walk to school, they don’t do it.  And it’s mainly because parents are very fearful today.  We continually deal – if it was up to the parents in our school district – and I say this is probably true in most school districts all over the country – we’ve created this sense of fear among our parents where if they could, they would have a stop at every house to pick the students up.  I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, it’s just that we’ve seen the practicality of it and that people don’t walk.  I’d rather not buy as many buses as I have to buy and pay as many drivers, but we’re just in a position where, no matter what we try and do, I mentioned to Mr. Joseph, that at Brummitt Elementary and Yost we literally had to redesign all our parking lots to accommodate the extra parental vehicular traffic that we’ve got, because all of our schools were designed in the 1970s when there was only one person working.  Mom worked at home.  They had one car.  Now we’ve got mom and dad with cars.  We’ve got grandma and grandpa bringing the kids to school. If any of the folks on the zoning board can figure out a way to get people to walk, I’d be thrilled.

Mr. Cole stated, however, denying the opportunity is going to preclude any of that.

Mr. McKibben stated that he doesn’t disagree with that.

Mr. Cole stated, let’s consider, too, some of the statements made in here that there is no nearby residential areas that would benefit walking.  Yet, within two or three years, this area will be heavily developed.

Mr. Peterson stated that he thought they made it clear that in the event that the residential development did take place in that area, that they would be more than willing to put in any sidewalks at that time.

Mr. Cole stated, that being the case, certainly he would want to see some commitment made to the BZA and efforts made on the schemes, to show where those sidewalks will be, so that they are not overbuilt, so that two, three, five years, 10 years from now, we come in here and we say well, would we need additional space, additional parking, and forget the entire commitment to sidewalks.  I would want those areas committed now, in front of BZA.  Timberland West, I guess – is that what we’re calling it – will be installing a bike pedal, a pedestrian path, that will enter probably the Southeast area or the East area of the school grounds.  It’s a terrible invitation to kids with motorbikes and four-wheelers and everything, but as the amount of pedestrian traffic increases, I think you would see that decrease and some policing effort would always have to take place. Some policing effort would have to take place with the parents who drive to the school to drop off their kids, which I feel is unfortunate. I’m sorry to see that our society has come to such a state where we deny our kids the pleasure, the exercise and the opportunity to walk to school because of our paranoia.  And it’s true, that there are dangers out there.  I cannot deny that.  Nevertheless, the state of the economy, the state of our resources, the state of building another road or widening another road to accommodate more traffic and more single-passenger mobile devices is really getting to the point where we just can’t do it anymore. It has to be revised in some way.  I don’t see that it’s going to take 20 years for a sidewalk to be used or to be necessary. I see it within five.  I see it within three. So, do you build it now?  Maybe not. Maybe we can wait, but you have two subdivisions already under construction – actually three – that are going to significantly increase the number of students in this school development at Liberty and hopefully, a lot of those students are going to begin walking to school, because how nice it is to have the freedom, the invisibility from adult management, so to speak, to be able to walk to school with your friends, and be able to cuss and swear and who knows what else without the supervision of adults nearby.  I really want the BZA to consider a commitment to sidewalks, within a certain period of time. When development does occur, when subdivisions – particularly Timberland West – has appreciated to 50 percent of its allocated lots, that sidewalks be put in. Maybe a pedestrian path.  Maybe it doesn’t have to be concrete. It can be just wood shavings, which actually requires more maintenance.  Your issue on street lighting, I agree.  We already have too many street lights. However, the entrance to Liberty schools is kind of dark, and in the night when I’ve had to go there, I have a little trouble finding that little turnoff.  Maybe a nice, innovative design that uses reflective surfaces to just simply highlight an entrance, rather than a streetlight.   And it reduces the light pollution in the area.  Safe routes to school has a lot of information. I think you need to look at that.  Mitigation of your landscaping, if you want to reduce it in the front. Let’s add it to the back.  Innovation in some of the things that we’ve done.  Rugeville doesn’t have sidewalks.  It was built before we had any idea. But that’s when everybody drove a car.  The other thing, the drainage issue.  I rely on Mr. Breitzke to look at the drainage and he’s satisfied with it, but I find it important that you say the site is divided into four watersheds, yet I see no watershed map.

Mr. Peterson stated that there are actually seven watersheds.

Mr. Breitzke stated, well, sub-watersheds, basically all going to the same place.

Mr. Peterson stated, they all basically at some point end up in Damon Run.

Mr. Cole stated, in some of your designs, you mention middle school; it is the intermediate school. Had there been consideration of another school at this site?

Mr. McKibben stated that he can say in the very near future, one of the reasons why they did buy the property next door was the possibility that at some point they may have to build another school out there.  But it depends on the population growth. They’ve had two demographers look at growth in the district, and really the first one hit the nail on the head.  Growth continued in Liberty Township where it didn’t continue anywhere else because of the economy.  We still have some additional space in the middle school that we can occupy prior to having to address that.

Mr. Cole asked, in the meantime, will the fields continue to be farmed?

Mr. McKibben stated, yes.

Mr. Cole stated that he thinks kids really need that value of life, to be able to look out there and see something besides a failed means of transportation – too many cars, too many parking lots.

Mr. Peterson stated, with regard to the perimeter trees, he gathers he would like to see, to the extent to which they don’t put perimeter trees along the perimeter of the property, that they add it to the South end of the property.

Mr. Cole stated, yes.

Mr. Peterson stated, there’s about 200 to 300 feet of wooded area along the South end of the property.  Is he suggesting that they add more trees?

Mr. Cole stated that there’s open space a little bit North of that I was considering. You’re not adding a great number of trees for your mitigation, only the trees that you would have essentially not planted due to a Variance on the landscaping.

Mr. Peterson asked Mr. Cole to point out what he means.

Mr. Cole stated that he walked the area not too long ago with one of the people from Duneland Group, and he remembers a lot of open space beyond the ballfields, between the ballfields and that buffer of trees along Damon Run.  Just enlarge that wooded area with shrubs, trees. You would be creating an educational experience for kids that is sorely needed.  

Mr. Haller asked Mr. Gerometta what the square footage of the existing building is.

Mr. Gerometta stated that the old part is 70,000 and the new part is 30,000.

Mr. Haller asked what the fire protection system is in the old building.

Mr. Gerometta stated, all they have in there is (inaudible). What they are going to do is create a passageway with two-hour doors, two-hour separation.

Mr. Haller stated, don’t put any sprinklers in the elevators, if they have any.

Mr. Breitzke stated that they’re probably aware of the pipeline going behind the school.  Contact the pipeline company, please, and before they move any dirt, it’s a constant fight between pipelines, power lines and tree or vegetative planting.   Watch proximity of any activity they do.

Mr. Cole asked if they have a bike rack at the school.

Mr. McKibben stated that if they have one he thinks it’s at the elementary.  He doesn’t know if they have one at the intermediate.  In his time, he has never seen a student ride a bicycle.  

Mr. Cole stated, well, that’s because they haven’t had the opportunity of paths and a safe way to get there.  If they built bike paths, he thinks they will see an explosion of bikes being used.  Opportunity exists to get a bike rack at this moment.  It’s a grant program.

Mr. Breitzke stated that our code requires bike racks.

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at approximately 10:15 a.m.