December 18, 2009
The regular meeting of the Development Advisory Committee was held on December 18, 2009 at 9:00 a.m. in the Porter County Administration Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Valparaiso, Indiana.
Those members present were Kevin Breitzke, Tim Cole, Joey Larr, Mike Haller, Harvey Nix, and Ray Joseph.
The following cases were heard by the Committee on this date:
Case 09-12-18. Petition of Regional Federal Credit Union, 7144 Kennedy Ave., Hammond, seeking developmental review for an addition and remodel to an existing credit union, to be located at 389 W. U.S. Hwy 6, in Portage Township. Zoned CH. (Sec.20-36N-6W)
Dave Kinel stated that he is representing the petitioner in this matter. He stated that they are a bank on U.S. 6 in South Haven, right across from the Commons area. They have a branch there and have so since about 2000. Prior to that, it had been Portage National Bank branch, originally built in 1977 on vacant land. Regional Federal Credit Union is based in Hammond and they have this branch and one opened last year on Silhavy Road in Valparaiso. They first did a remodel, facelift in Hammond, then the Valpo branch. They decided to try and upgrade the South Haven branch now. The first photo is an overhead view of Regional Federal Credit Union’s site. The next is a blowup of the Regional Federal Credit Union site, and then they show what they plan on doing at the branch. The next two photos, one gives an existing look at the branch, and the other is what the Silhavy Road branch looks like and the one in Hammond has the same look. They are refacing to make it look like the Valpo one. The last page shows…the branch is the tan part of the building, with the main entrance here. A lot of the site is asphalt right now, the way it was when they got it from Portage National. In the back is employee parking. Customers park here. There is an existing drive-thru that has three lanes and an ATM lane. One of the issues is, the way it was designed, the lobby is not large enough. Coming from Hammond, they put bullet-proof glass everywhere. They want to remove that and re-orient the teller lines so everyone is facing one way, and they want more room. That’s the new addition. They’re also putting a whole new entryway that mimics the original. They also want to extend the canopy so it covers not only the third drive-thru lane, but also the ATM. The ATM is a little free-standing thing right now. Right now, there’s no covering when they’re using the last lane, and the ATM has just a little cap over it, which doesn’t give you much in inclement weather. The ATM is a structure with a canopy covering it at the Valpo branch. The ATM’s now are usually free-standing buildings with a little door and you go in. The reason they’re switching from the free-standing ones is, in order to service them they have to go out there, open them up in the weather and put the cash in. Not real safe. When they put these in now, through the canopy, they put another pneumatic tube, just like to the customer units where they send the cash over, so the employee who goes out never carries any cash. They open up the door and then service it and put the money in, out of sight. They are in CH zoning. This little branch became grandfatherered in. So, they got a UV last month from the BZA because in the CH zoning, they don’t really list a bank. They also had to get Variances: In the CH zone, it’s supposed to be a 5-acre lot and have a pond and be a building of 15,000 square foot, 2-story. They got several Variances. They got a Variance to put the canopy extension over the ATM because there’s a 25-foot side-yard setback. They’ll end up 15 foot, and that was also granted. They have a sea of asphalt they’re not using. They are going to take this end of the asphalt out, over 6,000 square foot. There are four existing dry-well basins now. This basin, they are extending with 50 foot liters each side with stone around them, perforated. There will be rain garden stuff over in this area. It’s kind of higher here. They did a drainage study from DLZ and the post-development runoff rate will be less than pre-development from the site. The existing building is 2,685 square foot, with a 678-square-foot drive-thru canopy. They’re adding 733 square foot in the addition and 500 square foot of new canopy and the entry canopy is an additional 190 square foot. So, all the water right now drains on this roof, goes down to the end of the canopy and dumps on the pavement here. To this dry well, it’s going from here, the water’s going this way and this way. They’re picking up those three downspouts and putting a 12-inch perforated pipe with stone and leave it right here. In the winter, it drips and they get icy spots there and that will take that out of the equation, too. They didn’t have their landscape plan yet at the BZA meeting, but it’s in your packets now. They’re doing some low, ground-cover stuff in the front; series of different plants – some low plants in front of the window looking out from the lobby. Right now there are some random plants in the front. In the back, where they’re reclaiming the asphalt area, this is the rain garden area, which are mainly grasses and there’s shorter ones, the little taller and different colors on the sides and then a taller one in the back and six or seven flowering crabs that frame it. There are existing storage buildings in the back, so they’re hiding that a little with that. There is a lilac bush in here and some junipers below the window in the lobby. There is flowering ground cover and another type, more of a grass type in here and other grasses, and the crab apples, which get about 20 foot tall and about 10 foot diameter, with small crab apples that pretty much stay on the tree through the winter. Jim Perkins put this together. Right now, they have the same contractor who built the Silhavy branch in Valpo as general on this. This the just the second bank in South Haven. Maybe two more people could be added to the staff there when this is done. They are also improving a security room inside.
Mr. Nix think it improves the area a bit, especially with the storage buildings in the back.
Mr. Larr stated that it will make the area look a lot nicer. Does any water come off the self-storage asphalt into this area?
Mr. Kinel stated that he thinks it’s just gravel.
Mr. Larr asked if they’re worried about any extra water coming into…
Mr. Kinel stated, no.
Mr. Larr asked about Meadowview, itself. That corner of Meadowview floods consistently. He would assume they can hold that back.
Mr. Kinel stated that he’s been out here a lot, and only in one heavy rain did he see water standing around there. The grass will put them in better shape.
Mr. Larr asked if the water is just going to dissipate from the rain garden area.
Mr. Kinel stated that right now there’s a system of dry wells and they’re like 8 feet deep and 5 feet in diameter and, after it rains, it tends to vent itself. The dry wells have been there for some time. They’re adding 50-foot laterals each side with the stone for additional drainage and holding capacity.
Mr. Larr asked if the asphalt area they’re taking out is around 7,200 square feet.
Mr. Kinel stated that it’s around 6,885 square feet. Currently the existing hard surface area, there’s like 38,753 square foot, which is like 80.7 percent of the site. They’re adding total hard surface of 920, but then when they take out the 6,885, they’re actually reducing by 14.3 percent. They’ll end up with like 68.3.
Mr. Larr stated that he doesn’t think a local erosion control permit is required then.
Mr. Joseph stated, no.
Mr. Breitzke stated that it looks like it’s decreasing the overall impact by eliminating about 12 percent of the hard surface. When all this was stripped out, they didn’t have a regional detention. The rain garden in the back, while helpful, they’re still just retaining water in the back, but it’s an improvement. Do they intend to place snow in the back now?
Mr. Kinel stated that right now they just push it back in the back parking spaces. He assumes now they’ll push it off.
Mr. Breitzke stated, when there’s a melt-off, maybe there’s a way to bring that depression down a bit deeper, it’s fairly flat or at grade. They need some additional volume or storage to retain that water.
Mr. Kinel stated that he thinks they can.
Mr. Breitzke stated that the water tends to run off to the North from the building back, and there’ve been issues with the trailer park to the North. The storage sheds have gravel, but that turns into a hard surface, so water doesn’t permeate through that material. What are they going to do with the asphalt they are removing? We want to make sure it’s handled properly.
Mr. Kinel stated, he’s not sure. He thinks the excavator plans to reuse it somewhere.
Mr. Breitzke stated that his biggest concern comes with the snow that accumulates.
Mr. Cole asked how this fits in with our corridor plan for this area.
Mr. Joseph stated that this kind of follows along with what they are proposing. They have an existing sidewalk and they are adding landscaping. It’s pre-existing, so it’s challenging for them to meet the greenspace requirements. But it’s a step forward.
Mr. Cole asked if Mr. Kinel has seen the corridor study.
Mr. Kinel stated, yes.
Mr. Cole stated that he should look it over carefully, if all were to comply, would this stick out like a sore thumb or fit in nicely? He thinks it might.
Mr. Kinel stated that as things develop, image is all, and a little more landscaping, if there’s stuff they could do later to fit in better, he thinks they could do it.
Mr. Cole assumes they are stuck with the transformer in the rear.
Mr. Kinel stated, yes.
Mr. Cole asked if they would consider a bike rack.
Mr. Kinel stated that he’ll bring it up.
Mr. Cole asked, regarding the rain garden, is he talking about a grassy swale with some nice plants?
Mr. Kinel stated, they’re supposedly approved for their ability to wick up water.
Mr. Cole stated that the Plan Commission members would like to see a plan of the rain garden, swale, what’s under it, how permeable it is, if it’s meant to retain water or hold it for a while and then drain into the existing dry well. There had been plans by the Pepe people for a Latin festival. He wonders how collaborative the bank will be with that or if there is fencing that might interfere with that.
Mr. Kinel stated that in the back, there was a festival this summer and they used the bank’s back parking to some extent.
Mr. Cole stated that we need details on Rudy Sutton’s plans for removal and storage of the asphalt and stone, etc. He likes that they are reducing the impermeable parking area and installing a rain garden. He thinks it can work; just be more specific.
Mr. Breitzke stated that the frontage has no landscaping plan along U.S. Hwy 6.
Mr. Kinel stated that it’s all in the right-of-way.
Mr. Breitzke stated that he thinks they could get it worked out. He would suggest low shrubbery and talk to INDOT about the use of that property for that.
Issues raised were more storage for snow; detailed plans on where the removed asphalt and stone are going; rain garden details; suggest low shrubbery up by Hwy 6.
Case 09-12-19. Petition of Timberland Farms, LLC, P.O. Box 472, Valparaiso, seeking secondary plat review for a major subdivision, Timberland West, to be located on the West side of Meridian Road, South of CR 900 N., adjoiner to Fox Chase Farms, in Liberty Township. To contain 56 lots on 20 acres. Zoned R-1. (Sec.23-36N-6W)
Mike Duffy stated that he is representing the petitioner in this matter. He stated that they completed construction on the West 20 acres. The first phase was 56 lots. They are seeking final plat and see if they can get two house foundations in mid-winter or early spring.
Mr. Nix asked if they have applied for Rule 5.
Mr. Duffy stated that that’s been taken care of.
Mr. Nix stated that there are chances that there are four areas that may need a cement washout.
Mr. Duffy stated, sure.
Mr. Nix asked if John McQuestion did a wetlands delineation for them.
Mr. Duffy stated, yes.
Mr. Larr stated that he was at the site recently and it’s well on its way for erosion control. The inlets are being protected very well.
Mr. Breitzke stated that on the plat, where they have radial lines, those should be labeled as such and non-radial as such. There were also discussions about the drainage from the North.
Mr. Duffy stated that when the rezoning and primary plat came in on this, there is a wetland in the Southwest corner of Timberland subdivision, just on the East side of Meridian Road and from their talks with Loren Dzur, the farmer who owned the property, he mentioned that there was a tile that let out of that property, but it was slowly failing and then did fail, and it ran West through this property. So they informed Marshall when they were working out here, to keep an eye out for the tile. They found it. It was clogged and where they busted into it where they were working, it started gushing. So, they tied it into their storm system and that’s why there you see on the East side of the road now that wetland. Regarding the area that Mr. Breitzke was referring to, the Southwest corner of Meridian and 900 N., they’ve developed a plan to tie in a storm line. They spoke with Dave Burrus, looking at sources of possible funding to get that put in. They want a true tile in that area for positive release down to the South.
Mr. Breitzke stated that there was fill brought in to one of the neighbor’s sites, and that got into pumping pit.
Mr. Duffy stated that they burned through three pumps. Once Mr. Dzur saw that the tile had completely failed, he did attempt to go fix it himself, but he was hunting in the dark.
Mr. Haller asked if he’s aware that the Gaither property is up for Sheriff’s sale.
Mr. Duffy stated that he heard that.
Mr. Haller stated that it’s just the corner. How did the design of the entrance island come about?
Mr. Duffy stated that it came out of the UDO.
Mr. Haller stated that something’s not right. It’s tight. He doesn’t know if they can make it bigger or get rid of the island altogether.
Mr. Duffy stated that he thinks it’s something that has to be looked at in the ordinance.
Mr. Haller asked if the UDO prescribes the presence or the size of the island.
Mr. Joseph stated, the presence.
Mr. Haller stated that the pavement width is way off there. The teardrop isn’t right. Is it too late to change it?
Mr. Duffy stated that that’s the trend. People are narrowing up roads and they’re making it tight and the idea is that it’s a traffic calming device. He’s heard fire department complaints on the East side that they want all those islands removed.
Mr. Larr asked if the island is required by the UDO.
Mr. Breitzke stated, when you have a single entrance and exit, that’s why that’s there, plus, there really wasn’t a consideration for a bigger right-of-way. It’s basically the emergency services versus the planners we had in Aberdeen.
Mr. Larr stated, so, to eliminate the island at the entrance off of Meridian, they’d have to apply for a Variance.
Mr. Joseph stated that the best solution would be just a wider entrance.
Mr. Haller asked if that island and the width of that pavement is prescribed somewhere?
Mr. Duffy stated that the right-of-way is prescribed. The actual entrance was designed by a landscape architect.
Mr. Haller stated that he understands that the Highway Department is now open for business on Fridays October through March. It sure would be nice to have a Highway Department representative here to answer some of our questions. So, the current design of the island is designed by Duneland Group?
Mr. Duffy stated, yeah, he believes they did the road. He’s not sure of the width of the island.
Mr. Haller asked if there’s a template for that?
Mr. Duffy stated, yes.
Mr. Haller stated, so, the template resulted, by default in the width of the island, it sounds like.
Mr. Duffy stated, it’s getting more and more common.
Mr. Joseph stated that our code requires a boulevard entrance into any new development, but it doesn’t define how wide the boulevard is. This is the first subdivision under the new UDO and we are learning.
Mr. Breitzke stated that he thinks it goes back to widening right-of-ways and different pavement treatment. It’s an ongoing debate.
Mr. Duffy stated that he just talked with the fire department and it serves its purpose for keeping kids safe and traffic calming, but when it comes down to a disaster and they need to get emergency vehicles in there or the plows can’t get through, then it turns to the flip side of that.
Mr. Joseph stated that at this point we need wider pavement at the entrance.
Mr. Haller asked if that has to be prescribed at Plan Commission. He has been in the back where the connection has been made from the subdivision into the school, and the school has a new project going there and everyone did a great job. It was seeded. The tie-in back behind the school looks good. They’ve got some check dams down in there. And it’s well-landscaped.
Mr. Cole stated that he has to agree with the boulevard concept on the entry. There are some that have been designed where that little median strip comes so close to the entry that you don’t know that there is an entrance and an exit side. On a stormy night or a bright, sunny day, he’s found himself wanting to turn into the exit side because he doesn’t know that that’s a divider and there’s an entrance on the other side. He thinks maybe we should more thoroughly review this boulevard entrance and consider maybe some of the other elements of danger associated with it. On Page 35, he’s looking at the design for Timberland Farms East; it looks to him like that might even be more troublesome because of the sharp turn coming from the South.
Mr. Duffy stated that he’d have to check, but the dimensions are probably similar.
Mr. Cole stated that it’s the curve after the entrance that probably bothers him more. Solving the problem now will probably alleviate the problem later. It’s a nice plan, altogether, by and large. There will be some criticism and one of that is going to be the drain leaving Timberland West to the school and then down to Damon Run. Somebody will say this is an entirely different watershed. We had talked once upon a time about extending a bike path from Timberland West across the property to the West, which he thinks maybe the developer has an option on.
Mr. Duffy stated, yes.
Mr. Cole stated that he would really like to see some more detail on that, at least conceptual. In Timberland itself, it pretty much looks like almost every lot has been sold and building has commenced on almost every lot. He’s seen a community being built there. He hopes Timberland West and Timberland East will live up to those same standards.
Mr. Joseph stated that the intent behind the boulevard entrance is to slow people down, reduces the radius. He believes the narrow entrance is a great idea. There isn’t any reason to widen the entrance for the four snow events we have a year and the possibility of two fire trucks a year, maybe, going into that site. It’s to slow traffic down and to protect the kids that play in that area.
Mr. Cole stated that he still calls for review.
Mr. Larr asked, why not use speed bumps instead?
Issues raised were cement truck washouts; write “radial” along radial lines; try to make entrance island better – widen pavement – change it; details for possible bike path.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:18 a.m.