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DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Regular Meeting M I N U T E S The regular meeting of the Development Advisory Committee was held on September 11, 2008 at 1:00 p.m. in the Porter County Administration Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Valparaiso, Indiana. Those members present were Kevin Breitzke, Ray Riddell, Tim Cole, Mike Haller, D. Joey Larr and Robert W. Thompson Jr. Also present were County Commissioner Carole Knoblock, Daryl Brown, Marge Hefner and Toni Byers. The following cases were heard by the Committee on this date: Informal review for proposed Hagenow dairy farm on 900 S., just West of CR 600 E. Matt Welsh stated that he is representing and accompanied by one of the petitioners in this matter, Sharon Hagenow. Mr. Welsh stated that there’s going to be a free stall barn to house the animals on the back side, then there will be a milking facility on the front side of the two free-stall buildings. A free-stall barn is for animal housing only. The only occupants, human-wise, would be those working in the front, milking the cows and stuff like that. Mr. Thompson asked, milking facility, how often do you see a truck leaving the facility with the milk? Ms. Hagenow stated, every other day. Mr. Thompson asked, how often do you see feed trucks coming into the facility. Mr. Welsh stated, that’s all tractors. Ms. Hagenow stated that no feed trucks would be going there at all except the tractor and the (inaudible) and that would be twice a day. Mr. Thompson stated, okay, so you’re going to be producing the feed and everything like that on the existing farms. Will the cows be allowed to pasture any? Mr. Welsh stated, no. Mr. Thompson asked, so they’re housed continually? Mr. Welsh stated, yes. Mr. Thompson asked, how many?
Mr. Thompson asked, there’s two of them. Mr. Welsh stated, no, one, combined, the total. It’s set face to face, then there’s a feed lane where they go through and drive down one side of each, just discharged out of the machine, on the left-hand side; feed down this side, turn around; feed down the other side. Mr. Thompson asked, could you explain to us the manure management? Mr. Welsh stated that it will be hauled every day. Mr. Thompson asked if there is a collection system. Mr. Welsh stated, pretty much just scrape to the back. Ms. Hagenow stated, you scrape it and then you pretty much pick up the …. Mr. Welsh stated that they haul every day, all their existing facilities. The apron in the back will probably…I would say at least a week’s worth, probably three days to a weeks’ worth cushion there. Mr. Thompson asked, hauling where? Ms. Hagenow stated, the fields. We have hay to feed the cattle. Mr. Welsh stated that the whole facility is on like a 270-acre parcel, plus they own some land that’s within a quarter-mile of that facility, so it would all be spread on that property. Mr. Thompson asked how many acres they are going to be covering with a daily collection. Mr. Welsh stated that the parcel that it’s on is 278 and the other is 311. Mr. Thompson asked if, in his opinion, he feels the land will be able to handle the amount of spreading to be done daily, throughout the whole year. Mr. Welsh stated, yeah, a good rule of thumb would be three-quarters of an acre to an acre per animal. That’s very conservative. Mr. Cole stated that with 295 stalls they are going to get under the minimum of what IDEM would require to get some enforcement on; that bothers him because that leaves us without enforcement, without regulation, without some major plan as to what they’re going to do with the manure. Technically, it’s a confined feeding operation, except that it just comes under the limit. There’s another one in the area, right? Ms. Hagenow stated, mmhmmm. Mr. Cole asked, how far away? Ms. Hagenow stated, no more than half a mile. Mr. Cole asked, are they feeding into the same ditch? Mr. Welsh stated, no. Mr. Cole asked, without them coming under IDEM, what regulations, what enforcement, what codes do they look at? How are they controlled, especially when there’s another one – there may be two in the area. Ms. Hagenow stated, Lamberts, but, I don’t know but they’re a small dairy. Mr. Welsh stated, they don’t have very many cows. Mr. Cole stated, well, it’s just that one small dairy and then another small dairy pretty much leads up to a large operation. And we’re not looking at the small farm by itself; we’re looking at the concentrated operation that’s going on that encompasses manure handling and drainage runoff. Mr. Welsh stated, everything falls back, or the grade of the project falls back away from 900 towards the balance of that farm. Runoff, as far as anything that has manure on it, really is under roof. Mr. Cole stated, yeah, but they have to get rid of it eventually, haul it away. And you’re going to scrape it, probably, spread it that day. Mr. Welsh stated, yes. Mr. Cole stated, and then on those fields, when it rains, that runoff could possibly contaminate one of the ditches. Mr. Welsh stated, possibly. Mr. Cole stated, that’s why IDEM is involved in the slightly larger farms – five more cows and you’re in IDEM rules. That bothers me a little bit, because, without that control, I’m not sure what all could go on. You could be very honest people – and I’m sure you are – and operate this according to the rules and regulations that IDEM would probably enforce on you within that code. But, if you should sell, if somebody else should take over the operation, there is no guarantee that that would happen. He’s all for farming. That’s where our food comes from, and, as far as dairy farms, he thinks the demise of the dairy farm in the last number of years has been very
fortunate for Indiana, for a lot of states, for a lot of people, and he doesn’t want to discourage people to go into that. His problem is the downstream effects, whatever pollution might come out of this because there is no enforcement of the regulations. He would look to him as saying he would follow IDEM rules, even though he’s not required to, that they would do everything in their power to prevent any manure leaching or anything getting into the nearby streams. Mr. Welsh stated, one thing about farming in general is that, without the type of resources that they utilize, without clean water, they’re out of business, too. Mr. Cole stated that those things are important. Mr. Welsh stated that they’re important to all of us. Mr. Cole stated that two weeks ago we read in the paper about a farm in Central Indiana violating the rules and killing off huge numbers of the fish. Mr. Welsh stated, that is a problem. He used to do a lot of work around on their facilities and there are some people who give everyone else a bad reputation. And people that are good people, that are honest, work hard and do the right things are being hammered because of these yo-yos. And that’s not fair, to be honest. But there are a lot more good people around than the people that we read about. Mr. Cole stated, his problem is that theirs may be a very fine operation; it’s just that down the road there’s another operation that also skirts the IDEM rules by being just under that minimum. Now we have two in here and, possibly, there may be a third one. You add them up, and that’s one big dairy farm. All he’s looking for here is some kind of a confident word that the operation will be clean and be up to IDEM rules – without the extra cost and burden that would probably be to be actually under IDEM. There’s always going to be stink. Mr. Welsh stated, even with the methane digesters and what not that some of these guys are installing, it’s still there. Mr. Cole stated, maybe the technology still needs improvement and there are ideas and innovations out there from which they would escape if they were under the IDEM rules. That’s his worry. If IDEM comes up with a better process, he would hope that they would be willing to look into that. Mr. Welsh stated that some of the IDEM regulations and whatnot…they’re functional, but they’re very expensive, for one. Both Andrew and Stephen are just starting out and, cost-wise, and if they need to expand in the future, they’re going to fall under those IDEM regulations. As far as getting established, that was the
reasoning for this, to produce as much milk as they can with a facility that they can afford to accommodate the debts that they are going to incur to get established. Mr. Cole stated that he is just simply expressing his concerns. He doesn’t want to stand in their way. He just simply wants to alert them to the possibility and the problems and the fact that they may not be able to enforce any regulation requirements because of that. It puts us in a weak spot, but, at the same time, we don’t want anybody attempting farming from start to go broke or to realize failure because of the added, possibly unnecessary expense. Mr. Welsh stated, that’s the situation. Mr. Cole stated that from his point of view it seems like it’s the anaerobic decomposition of manure that causes the biggest problem. Mr. Welsh stated that the land base that is there will more than accommodate a thin layer of spreading. It’s not like they are going to concentrate this on 20 acres throughout the whole season or something like that. There are some other dairies on the East side of the state that are 900 cows on 60 acres. That’s dumb. When you have 600 and 300, that’s different. Mr. Cole asked if these are free-ranging cows, with stanchions for milking or feeding. Mr. Welsh stated that in what’s called a free-stall barn there’s dividers throughout lanes and they can just walk in and lay down in each individual stall. Mr. Haller asked if Mr. Welsh is erecting the building. Mr. Welsh stated, just the free-stall barn. Garner Construction is on the parlor. Mr. Haller stated that it came to his attention yesterday that we still do not have the proper state septic permit and he’s been asked by the Health Department if, at all possible, to withhold the issuance of the building permit until they get that. But, permits, they could issue a foundation permit, but haven’t figured out how to do that electronically yet. Mr. Riddell stated that as the Highway Engineer his main concern is the roads. It’s been documented in his Highway report. We know the history of 900 S. is that it’s not very stable. It’s a chip and seal road. They have provided the County with a road guarantee in the amount of $200,000. It’s at the discretion of the Commissioners if they want to extend it at the time it expires, which is in two years. They’ve issued the driveway permits. Mr. Welsh stated that construction traffic will stay on 600.
Mr. Breitzke asked if they are going to continue to use that road for their milk pickups and those issues? Mr. Welsh stated that there will be a driveway facing 600 and that will be able to accommodate trucks backing in and out. Mr. Breitzke stated that we have real issues because 600 is all-weather, whereas 900 is not in any condition and we’ve had a history here where it would not be fair to continue to do that unless there is some way to upgrade those roads and that would involve substantial participation on their part. Until that time, they should keep the tanker trucks off 900 S. Water management is very critical here. We don’t have time to go out and keep an inventory on the cows, and there’s lot of trust here. He thinks one of the things, in addition to that, he’s hearing from the public about a confined animal feeding operation. There’s a difference between a CAFO and an animal feeding operation, by definition, by the numbers. We still have concerns, but, at the same time, most of us respect agribusiness and we want to make sure that still thrives in this County. Are there going to be 147.5 stalls to each side of the building? Mr. Welsh stated that there are two 216-foot buildings that face each other and then there’s like a 6-foot opening in the eave. Mr. Breitzke asked how many stalls they will have facing each side. Mr. Welsh stated that it will be even – 296, 297. Mr. Breitzke asked if the highest number would be 300. Mr. Welsh stated that he’s pretty sure it is, or 600 combined. Mr. Breitzke stated, with their acreage – they talked about 295 cows and then they’re talking all 600 acres is devoted to those? Mr. Welsh stated, between the two farms. Mr. Breitzke stated, so you’re actually talking 600 cows, or a little less? Mr. Welsh stated that he doesn’t really know to the T, to be honest. Mr. Breitzke asked, are they going to be moving cattle back and forth across 900? Mr. Welsh stated that that would be on a trailer.
Mr. Welsh stated, yes. They’ll be housed in there and, as they go through their lactation cycle, they’ll be coming in and out. Mr. Breitzke stated that we just want to make it clear that we are not creating a hazard on 900 S. and having animals going back and forth. We want to make sure all the traffic stays on 600. Our issue isn’t so much personal cars and trucks coming in and out, but semi-trucks, things that would put a real burden on that road. Mr. Thompson asked, the cows aren’t put in these stalls and kept there 24 hours? They are allowed to go in and out? Mr. Welsh stated, no, they’re milked twice a day, and, towards the center of these buildings is a feed lane, so there is access to feed at all times. Mr. Larr asked how many milk trucks there would be a day? Mr. Welsh stated that it would be every other day. Mr. Larr asked, how many? Mr. Welsh stated, one. Mr. Larr asked, how many employees, as far as traffic? Mr. Welsh stated, two, maybe. Sharon Hagenow’s sons are the ones that are putting this together, so, it would be her boys and her husband will be in and out a lot. Ms. Hagenow stated that it takes only two people to milk. Mr. Larr asked how this compares to the scale of Fair Oaks. Mr. Welsh stated, very small. Mr. Larr asked if they would be having field trips to the dairy farm from schools, etc. Ms. Hagenow stated that when her husband’s folks were alive they did that all the time, but once they passed on, they were too busy to do that. Commissioner Knoblock asked if this is going to be a free-stall building. Mr. Welsh stated, yes.
Mr. Breitzke asked if they submitted plans for the milking parlor. Mr. Welsh stated, yes. Marge Hefner asked, during the growing season where the land is covered with beans and corn and hay, where will the manure be put? Ms. Hagenow stated, when you cut the hay, you put it on there, but also they call it fallow, and they have some acres set aside just for fallow so they can spread the manure. Mr. Welsh stated, while the crops are grown because they need some area to get them through until the wheat comes off or beans come off. Wheat is a crop that will come off in early July, so you have a period from late May, per se, to the first week in June to the first week in July, and what they’ll do is they’ll set aside maybe 20 acres to get us through that period of time. They’ll have acreage set aside for fallow for that purpose. When the corn and beans and the majority of the other crops come off, they start spreading on those. Mr. Thompson stated, based on that, you’re going to be rotating fields then? Mr. Welsh stated, yes. Ms. Hagenow stated, on an annual basis, except for the hay. Darryl Brown stated that he’s with the Valparaiso City Utilities. This is not within the wellhead protection area, as far as their water system goes. Do they just have the one wellhead facility? Mr. Welsh stated, yes. Mr. Brown asked, they are not spreading any manure near that, he would suppose? Mr. Welsh stated that he’s between the driveways. That wouldn’t be a good idea. Mr. Breitzke asked, how deep is your well? Mr. Welsh stated, he doesn’t know. Mr. Breitzke stated that part of the concern is the aquifers we’re dealing with sometimes will mix and we’re always cognizant of the impact of these. He thinks the nearest wellfield is probably much lower, but it’s always good to know what’s happening around us. Ms. Hagenow asked if that would be an issue for Mr. Bengel. Mr. Breitzke stated that he doesn’t think so. Mr. Brown stated (inaudible). They don’t have those issues yet. They’ve got their wellhead protection areas. Mr. Breitzke stated that most of the wellhead protection areas are on the fringes. Mr. Thompson stated that this is a permitted use in the AG area. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 1:50 p.m. |
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September 11, 2008