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DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Regular Meeting M I N U T E S The regular meeting of the Development Advisory Committee was held on May 9, 2008 at 9:00 a.m. in the Porter County Administration Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Valparaiso, Indiana. Those members present were Kevin Breitzke, Kelly Cadwell, James Branham, Ray Riddell, Tim Cole, Paul Graeber, Mike Haller and Robert W. Thompson Jr. Also present were Marge Robinson of INDOT and Toni Byers. The following cases were heard by the Committee on this date: Case 08-4-11. Petition of Beverly Runk, 2801 Kickbush, Valparaiso, seeking primary plat review for a major subdivision, Leffew Industrial Park East, to be located at 281 N. SR 2, in Washington Township. To contain 31 lots on 64.34 acres. Zoned I-1. (Sec.21-35N-5W) Randy Peterson stated that he and Attorney Bill Ferngren are representing the petitioners in this matter. Mr. Thompson stated that this was heard at the May 2nd DAC meeting, and issues raised were: statement from the soil scientist about hydric soils on the plat, and that is on there, but it needs to be signed; show turnarounds. Mr. Peterson stated that he put standard details on Sheet 15. The radii should accommodate an emergency vehicle or school bus if one would ever go down there. Mr. Riddell stated that he calls this temporary T-turnarounds at the end of the stub roads. Mr. Peterson stated, yes, at the end of a stub, which would be, upon full build-out…he has two different turnarounds. One would be at the end of a phase where there’s additional property that would be developed by the Runks in phases. That would be just a round area of gravel with a 50-foot radius, 100-foot diameter. Once the thing is built out and the street is stubbed that has nowhere to go, that would be the hammerhead type of turnaround. Mr. Riddell asked if that would be the one with the 100-foot easement that he’s showing. Mr. Peterson stated, yes, that’s already platted as the utility easements and they will put them as temporary turnaround easements, as well.
Mr. Riddell asked if they are going to be paved; they show them as stone. Mr. Peterson stated that he didn’t intend to pave it unless it’s required. Mr. Riddell stated that they would prefer that it was paved. Mr. Peterson asked, what about the round ones at the end of phases? Can they just be stoned, or do they need to be paved, as well? Mr. Riddell stated that they can be stone. Mr. Thompson stated that they were to investigate the possibility of a municipal water supply. Mr. Peterson stated that they did investigate that. There is a 16-inch water main on the West side of SR 2. Mr. Thompson asked if they investigated whether or not they could tap into that. Mr. Peterson stated that they can. Mr. Riddell asked if they are going to. Mr. Peterson stated that Valparaiso said that there are two ways that they will allow it, whether it’s a voluntary act by the developer or forced by the County. So, at this point the Runks would wait until they’re forced. Mr. Ferngren stated that the Runks are electing, at this point, not to extend the utilities under the road. Mr. Peterson stated that they’ve talked to them extensively about it. Mr. Thompson stated that they could also very easily ask for every building that comes in there to make sure that they have sufficient fire flow and make them go through fire flow testing. Mr. Peterson stated that they’ve expressed that to them. Mr. McQuestion has expressed to them the difficulty of having a well supply because, if a business has more than 25 persons in it, the regulations are greatly enhanced. The well has to be 200 feet from a septic field. You have to have maintenance and monitoring and there are a lot of other regulations. Mr. Thompson stated that they were to consider an additional access.
Mr. Ferngren stated that he thinks they considered that, and they talked after the last meeting – they really don’t have anything available. They don’t have any other adjoining land that would get to any other right-of-way. They just don’t have any options. Mr. Thompson stated that they were to correct the general construction note #8 to read that work is to begin in the spring of the appropriate year, instead of 2001. Mr. Ferngren stated that they also wanted to note some zoning on the perimeter of the site and then the field manual, Mr. Peterson has begun putting together an erosion control field manual that Mr. Haller has been asking for. Ms. Cadwell stated, concerning the water, there are additional restrictions on there – separation distances are 100 feet, so it gets more and more difficult to fit everything onto a lot, depending on the business. There would be less issues and it would be the Health Department’s recommendation to get a municipal water line through there. Mr. Breitzke stated that it makes it difficult to get a set-aside on there, too, for septics. Ms. Cadwell stated that it depends. She stated that if it were going to be storage buildings or something small, it wouldn’t be an issue, but if it were going to be light industry, then it’s virtually impossible. Mr. Thompson stated that he thinks the subdivision would be more valuable with water. Second, he knows Ray Joseph expressed that he would like to see some landscaping along the front to help with the view along SR 2. Mr. Breitzke stated that there are so many positives about having water. It’s a resource that’s there, and they really should take advantage of it, but that will be up to the Plan Commission. They are coming to Drainage Board on Monday morning, so they will discuss the outlets and some of those issues more then. Mr. Riddell stated, going back to the temporary emergency vehicle turnaround, there’s a circle that’s just touching the road… Mr. Peterson stated that the detail wasn’t drawn very well, but it will extend all the way up to the… Mr. Riddell asked if it will be a 20-foot radius. Mr. Peterson stated, yes. He will adjust the detail. Mr. Riddell stated that on Page 7 he has “proposed” and “existing” switched around on the notations. He stated that a lot of
the soils out there are severe limitations for local roads. He also sees that there is a lot of fill in the road areas. Does he have plans for what they are going to do for that? Mr. Peterson stated that Mr. McQuestion told him just the opposite, that they are good fill soils. Mr. Riddell stated that he sees soils that have severe limitations for local roads. Mr. Peterson stated that they will work that out. Mr. Ferngren stated that he will confirm those with Mr. McQuestion. Mr. Cole stated that he fully agrees with the water issues, and if this were to go forward without City water, he is sure the Plan Commission will entertain exceptions to the use of those lots. He asked if Lot 31 was on there before. Mr. Peterson stated that it was. Mr. Cole stated that he would like to thank them for considering the school buses and the rezoning of the properties next to you and for the transition and the continuity of this area, and for the traffic issues that would be involved going through your industrial park. Ms. Robinson stated that they will have to get together on some of the things, like right-of-way, to get that all in there. Mr. Riddell stated that in the areas where there is severe limitation, he sees where they have a detail where there is road edge drains. We will probably need the drains through those areas. Also, they will probably need geotextiles. Issues raised were prefer that the turnarounds be paved; recommend tapping into City water. Informal review for Horvath Towers, new cell tower at 697 N. 250 W. Sean Boylan stated that he is representing the petitioners in this matter. Mr. Thompson stated that the BZA recently approved a Use Variance for this particular cell tower. It is underneath the 200-foot ceiling height, so there won’t be any lights on it. Some of the things they asked for were: subject to the site being moved 350 feet North of the site that was originally depicted in front of them. It’s going to be set back behind some woods, if he remembers correctly. They asked that all Unified Development Codes be met, which meant under the 200-
Mr. Boylan stated that he thinks one of the stipulations regarding landscaping, in this instance, is irrelevant; they are nestled inside the woods, so they would be tearing down mature trees to put up 3-foot trees. They did come before DAC back in the fall and they were unanimously voted to move on to the BZA. There, after several attempts to get approval, they did finally receive that in March. The original location – if you turn to Z-1 on the drawings – there is a survey of the parent parcel. In the lower right-hand corner of the survey, you will see where the house exists with the garage. They were approximately 300 feet from the property line on the East side. Because of the remonstration from the neighbors, while they were in accordance with the Porter County zoning ordinance, the BZA felt it was necessary to move the site to the North. They originally moved it 1,600 feet and just South of the power lines that are depicted on Z-2. They thought it was necessary to move it North of the power lines. They were about 100 feet South of the power lines going through there, now they are about 350 feet, minimum, from that 1,600 foot move. That’s where they currently sit; with the exception of the landscaping, all other codes will be met. Ms. Cadwell stated that the scale is 1 inch equals 80 feet. Do they have any idea where the septic is at for the existing home? She just wants to ensure that they are not putting their driveway over it, near it. Mr. Boylan stated that he doesn’t know where the septic currently is on the parent parcel. Ms. Cadwell stated that her recommendation would be to locate that and make sure they are not impacting it. Mr. Thompson stated that they have one client that’s going to be locating on this tower, Cricket Communications. Any other prospective client that wants to go on this tower, they have to come back for an informal review at DAC. How many additions can this tower handle? Mr. Boylan stated that it’s initially designed for four carriers. Given that their business is towers and they would try to get as many as they could to go on there to cut down their investment, they would not turn any carriers away. Once they have four, if there is another one, they would go back and re-engineer. Mr. Branham asked if re-engineering includes increasing height. Mr. Boylan stated, no. Well, it could, but if that’s the case they would have to go back in front of the BZA again. Mr. Breitzke asked if there is a dead spot here. Mr. Boylan stated that he can only speak for Cricket, but, yes, they have a dead spot there.
Mr. Cole stated that if they do have four clients on this tower, there is going to be considerable electric coming in. Where is it going to come in at? Mr. Boylan stated that if he takes a look at Z-1, you can see where the access drive starts to come in. They secured not only an access easement, but also a utility easement, so they will bring in, initially, an 800-amp service. Generally, there is a transformer set up about 10 feet outside of the lease area. But, if they do fill the tower up and they bring in a fifth, they will bring in another 200-amp service. Mr. Cole asked if this will be underground. Mr. Boylan stated, yes. Mr. Cole asked if there will be any lighting. Mr. Boylan stated that there won’t be any lights on this, because they are under 200 feet, and the FAA has determined that there is no hazard to flight navigation. Issues raised were locate the septic for the existing home in regard to placement of the drive. Informal review for proposed land split for Andrade at 299 S. 300 W., in Porter Township. Don Bengel stated that he, Eli Tomich and Menakshi Guman are representing the petitioners in this matter. Mr. Thompson stated that this is an agricultural area. In the new code, agricultural areas can still be split into 10-acre lots. It’s a review done by Plan Commission staff so that they do have 10 acres, that all parcels are 10 acres. It was what was requested by the Commissioners in agricultural areas to have them do 10-acre splits without having to go through subdivision control. However, they have added it so that way they can at least have some staff review of that. One of the things is that, in this particular situation we are looking at here, he has a very lengthy drive that is going back. Within the code it states that we can have it reviewed, most particularly with the Engineering Department and also emergency services, due to the
length of this drive. He told Mr. Bengel that he needed to come before DAC so that this drive can be reviewed and to see if there are any other comments, so that is why they are here, and we probably are going to stay in that route with anybody coming in with agricultural 10-acre splits, that we will bring them here in front of DAC just to review, because, in the end, he or Mr. Joseph has to write a letter saying that they have to do this, this and this and they have to go record these splits, so that way we know they are not showing us two 10-acre splits and then coming in later with two 1-acre splits and then, essentially, slowly subdividing it out. Ms. Cadwell stated that it’s difficult for her to have much input on this as she doesn’t have any soil borings or even soil mapping on this. The issues that they have had with 10-acre parcels, they have had them come where they have had the useable acreage, but they are so flat they don’t have an adequate drain outlet and no easements or anything to access an outlet. So, on paper, she doesn’t really have a problem with it, but there might be some issues when they actually provide more information. They should at least show some soil mapping. If this is all low and wet, the Health Department might even have to turn it down. Mr. Branham stated that in looking at the length of the drive… Mr. Thompson stated that anybody that’s been coming in with lengthy drives, he’s been telling them that they have to have a minimum of 12-foot wide. Mr. Branham stated, 12-foot wide and, in this case, he would suspect they have to have an easement so that they are not changed. And you have to meet some County standards to get back to that. It’s nice to have that long a driveway, but, if in the spring it turns into a swamp and doesn’t have the standard road conditions you can’t get emergency equipment back there. Mr. Thompson stated that we really don’t have standards for driveways, so, he can write this into the letter. What would you like to see as far as depth of gravel? Mr. Riddell stated that he doesn’t know if they would want it widened out at the road. Mr. Thompson stated that the way the code sits there and says it, the road is to be a minimum 12 foot width, maximum 18 foot width. We can ask them to have it wide at the right-of-way and then they can taper back in, so he can ask them to have it 18-foot wide at the right-of-way. Mr. Branham stated that with a driveway that length you would have to have some type of turnaround at the end, too.
Mr. Thompson stated, no. It doesn’t apply in AG. Mr. Breitzke asked if there is a way to monitor this to make sure they just don’t sell off an acre or 2 acres up front. Mr. Thompson stated that they actually have to record this plat. Mr. Breitzke stated that the concerns he has are mostly with drainage in that area. The clays up there and some of the soils are a challenge, as well as where the neighbors are located in relation to that drive because they made a couple smaller parcels to the Southwest of this that are really packed in. It is also hilly, so, on the drive, they might make a maximum grade of 6 percent, depending on the nature of getting in and out of the thing, and the driveway should not obstruct drainage, either. Mr. Thompson asked, isn’t our drive ordinance 8 percent? Mr. Riddell stated that it’s 8 percent. Mr. Breitzke stated that he doesn’t have a problem with 8 percent. Mr. Haller stated that this is going to have to be addressed up front, at the road, and there will have to be a mailbox with minimum 3-inch high numbers. This is also right at the intersection, he believes, where Phillips Road comes into 300 S. That’s a heck of a place for a driveway. It would be nice to show on here precisely where this point on the map is. Mr. Bengel stated that he thinks Phillips comes into that intersection right at the Section corner right there. Mr. Haller stated that we are talking about recommending some things here, and it’s at a bad spot on the County road, to begin with. So, he doesn’t know liability-wise, how that shakes out. Mr. Thompson stated that that’s something that the Engineering Department can go down and look at. The whole idea is, too, to make sure that this drive, too, doesn’t interfere with any of the intersection traffic movement. Mr. Haller stated that the first clue was the address, so if you get up and look at the map there, 300 S. should come in right at the bottom corner of the drawing.
Mr. Breitzke stated that the question is, does it match up with 300? Mr. Haller stated, yes. Mr. Breitzke asked if they are matching up with the driveway, or are they offset. Mr. Bengel stated that it’s going to be very close to it. Mr. Breitzke stated that we need to know what the offset is. Mr. Haller asked, isn’t the centerline of the Section line the road, or very close? That’s right where that is. Mr. Breitzke stated that then you have a curve going Southwesterly just around the corner there that drops off 300 S. Mr. Haller stated that Phillips Road comes in a little bit before the intersection. It’s a nasty little…not my favorite place to drive through. Mr. Bengel stated that actually it’s better for this guy; he can see in all directions. Mr. Haller stated that he would like the record to show where that intersection is in relation to this property. Mr. Thompson stated that that’s a good point, because we need to make sure that the drive and intersection separation is… Mr. Breitzke stated that if they don’t, because of where this is platted… Mr. Thompson stated that they will have to come up with a different configuration of drives to stay away from the intersection a certain distance or seek a Variance. Mr. Cole stated that he’s going to assume that the 160 by 80-foot rectangle at the road is simply to accommodate frontage. Mr. Bengel stated that it is. Mr. Cole stated that the one problem that he sees here is getting electric back here. They are going to have to come back with high tension and put a transformer at the end. They are not going to be able to come off the transformer at the road; that’s too long and it gets expensive. He agrees that there are a lot of logistical and demographical problems in this area. He would like to see what surrounds this.
Issues raised were soil mapping for Health Department review; 12-foot wide minimum drive and soil to support the road; drive to widen out at the right-of-way to 18 feet for 40 feet back and then back to 12 feet; turnaround at end of drive; maximum slope of 8 percent on the drive; drive not to impact the drainage; turnaround for emergency vehicles; 8-inch depth of stone on drive; plat to be recorded; calculate offset from 300 S.; see what surrounds this; disclosure statement on the plat regarding agricultural operations in the area. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 9:55 a.m. |
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May 9, 2008