DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE

Regular Meeting
April 4, 2008

M I N U T E S

The regular meeting of the Development Advisory Committee was held on April 4, 2008 at 9:00 a.m. in the Porter County Administration Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Those members present were Kevin Breitzke, Ray Joseph, James Branham, Tim Cole, Harvey Nix, Ray Riddell, Mike Haller, Paul Graeber and Robert W. Thompson Jr.  Also present were Fred M. Siminski and  Toni Byers.

The following cases were heard by the Committee on this date:

Case 08-3-8.  Petition of Porter County Board of Commissioners, 155 Indiana Avenue, Valparaiso, seeking developmental review for a North Porter County Highway Garage, to be located at 1202 N. 250 E., in Westchester Township.  Zoned IN.  (Sec.5-37N-5W)

Al Hoaglund and Mr. Thompson stated that they are representing the petitioners in this matter.  Mr. Thompson stated that this is for a new garage facility on Brummitt Road, just South of the old Conrail, or, now, Norfolk Southern Railroad tracks, across from the existing garage on the West side of Brummitt Road.

Mr. Joseph stated that they were in front of DAC the previous week and there were no issues brought up.

Mr. Thompson stated that they got a Special Exception from the requirement to have sewer and water at that spot.  They are going to be on septic and well.  They are going to wait until sewer and water comes out to a development that could possibly be coming into Chesterton.  They also got a Variance from the BZA for storm water and those items are due to the slope.  It is very flat.  They do have a positive outlet, as according to the storm water manual, but they were not able to meet the grades that were required, due to the flatness.  They also received a Variance from landscaping on the North side, because of the railroad tracks; they saw no sense in putting money along an elevated railroad track and they asked for a Variance along the entrance to the road.  They will put some landscaping there, but not the full amount as the code states, because it is a truck entrance.

Mr. Cole asked if there are going to be any employee meetings held there.

Mr. Hoaglund stated that there will be safety meetings that they schedule at least twice a year.  Once in a while, they have an employee luncheon.  Sometimes they have product demonstrations that they have the employees all gather in for.  On a typical, day to day operation, they come in in the morning, get directives for the day, and leave.

Mr. Cole stated that he lived in the house directly North of the proposed site for about four years, and he knows how loud that railroad can get, because it is elevated.  He was just thinking that there may be no cosmetic reason for putting in landscaping along the Northern boundary, but it would be a sound deadening thing for them.  They might want to consider that.

Mr. Hoaglund stated that they are hoping that the building will provide them with a little bit better than what they have now.  Right now, it’s just a straight 8-inch concrete block wall that’s about 40 percent single-pane glass windows, and this building will be a little bit further away.  Most of the safety meetings will be held in the office area, which is further away still and, hopefully, be well insulated and have drywall and acoustical tile ceiling.  Hopefully, they can talk without shouting at each other up there.

Mr. Cole stated, he didn’t realize that that area is called Brummitt Road; it was always Friday Road. 

Mr. Thompson stated that the rezoning commitment that was made was that they would do some berming, a fence and landscaping along the Southern and Western boundaries. 

Mr. Haller asked, what all is going to be contingent on the CO, if they are going to do a fence and landscaping and all that?

Mr. Thompson stated that they are going to fence it in, because they do have to protect the equipment.  He stated that the landscaping was a commitment that Commissioner Evans did ask for.  The Variances they received are that everything is going  to be paved up to the building.  But the areas back in the yard and in front of the garage, at this time, it’s all depending on whether or not the Highway Department has money. Another Variance allows them a 6-foot-high fence, which will not come any closer than the established Plan Commission building line, so that there’s plenty of stacking room away from the right-of-way for a semi-truck to even come in. 

Mr. Hoaglund stated that they are very aware that they are going  to be in a sensitive area.

Mr. Haller stated that they won’t be able to final out the building without the commitments being done, probably.

Case 08-3-5.  Petition of Cherry Hill Development, LLC, 196 W. U.S. Hwy 30, Valparaiso, seeking secondary plat review for a major subdivision, Cherry Hill, to be located at 356 N. 250 W., in Center Township.  To contain 117 lots on 48.18 acres.  Zoned R-1.  (Sec.16-35N-6W)

Gary Radtke stated that he is representing and accompanied by Vaughn Staab and Bill Wiegand, the petitioners in this matter.

Mr. Thompson stated that this is a return and that they are set to go before the Plan Commission next Wednesday night.

Mr. Joseph stated that he visited the site yesterday. They are working on adding more silt fencing to what they’ve constructed.  They were very helpful and did a very good job along Salt Creek.  They’ve installed a lot of additional riprap and really cleaned the area a whole bunch.   Did they get the silt fencing around the stockpiles?

Mr. Wiegand (inaudible).

Mr. Joseph stated that he was talking with Mr. Siminski and he said that one of the lots, Lot 160, on Cherry Hill Street, does not have an address.

Mr. Radtke stated that they will make sure that gets put on there.  There is an address on the plat for the whole subdivision; it just doesn’t show it on this Phase I, so they will get that put on the final plat.

Mr. Thompson stated that they sent out the street names again and they got a mixed response back.  The U.S. Postal Service did not like Apple Grove Lane nor Cherry Hill Street, saying they already have streets with the same beginning names.  The County Highway Department didn’t have any problems with the names, nor did 911.  But Valparaiso Fire Department had a problem with Sugar Maple Lane, saying they already have a Sugar Mill and Sugar Creek. 

Mr. Wiegand asked if they could change that name to some other kind of maple, or does it have to be completely away from the maple?

Mr. Breitzke stated that most of the Maple names have been used.

Mr. Thompson stated that we could try Red Maple.  He has some questions on the performance guarantee.  He also drove out there and he didn’t see centerline staking control out there.  That’s supposed to be staking of point of tangents, point of intersections, point of curves and he saw nothing.

Mr. Radtke stated that they haven’t installed property irons yet.

Mr. Thompson stated that this isn’t the centerline of the street.  He would prefer to wait until after the surface is there.  On the bond, they did say it was done, and he does want to see an amount there for doing that.  Regarding the erosion control, that is done, and that’s one item he is insisting with the Engineering Department be kept all the way until the developer releases the subdivision or the subdivision is approved and taken in by the commissioners for maintenance and, even sometimes then, he asks for the maintenance guarantee to include some for erosion, so that’s a line item that he does ask that stays around, so that’s an ongoing thing.  Regarding the detention ponds and stuff, he does ask for a little bit.  He knows what they have done – they weren’t final graded and seeded and stuff, but he does ask for a little bit to stay over there, just in case some maintenance needs to be done and stuff.  The landscaping he has listed and everything – there was the commitment, was there not, that they were going to do some landscaping up against the railroads and against NIPSCO?

Mr. Wiegand stated that part of the NIPSCO landscaping is included, but the railroad will be in the next phase.

Mr. Thompson stated that those are the only items he has.  He just wanted some lines put into place for erosion control, something kept over mainly for the maintenance of the ponds and then the centerline street control.  He stated that he went out there and he was shocked – it’s a beautiful site.

Mr. Breitzke stated that they had some issues the other day with the erosion control.  What he’d recommend on the stockpiles, he’d just do some temporary seeding of those, just in case they are sitting there for a while.   The overlooked thing, and one of the cheap methods of erosion control, is to use mulch. 

Mr. Wiegand stated that they have a big pile of mulch there that they intend to use for that.

Mr. Breitzke stated that it was mentioned about the staking.  We need permanent staking or realistic numbers for staking.  For the bond, he would prefer the full amount of the centerline staking, as well as for staking out all the lots.

Mr. Radtke stated that he received a quote from another survey company for $3,500 to put the irons in on the lots, so that’s solid for the lots.

Mr. Breitzke asked if he has that with a contract, just in case they need to follow up on that.

Mr. Radtke stated yes, with Vortex Engineering, out of LaPorte.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he thinks everything is worked out as far as vacating the ditch and transferring things. 

Mr. Riddell stated, regarding the bond calculation estimate, they show numbers here for the City for sanitary and water.  Have they already bonded with them?

Mr. Radtke stated that the water was paid for already, but not the sanitary.  He talked to John Hardwick, whose comment was that they didn’t really need a bond, because all that was left was the railroad crossings, so he felt they didn’t need a bond to do that. 

Mr. Riddell stated that he sees by the estimate, also, that they have sidewalks by owners; we need something to cover the ADA ramps and he would like to see it covered by the bond.  He would also like to see an amount in there for the improvements to 250 W.  Porter County only has the easement and he thinks it’s good for three years, the agreement, so he’d like to see an amount in there.

Mr. Radtke stated that what they put in there now is the portion by the South entrance. 

Mr. Haller asked if they have a list of builders that are going to be building in there.

Mr. Wiegand stated that they will be kind of handpicked, but they don’t have a big list yet.

Mr. Haller asked if they have any provisions for like a holdback or some amount that they have to deposit when they buy a lot from him regarding erosion control.

Mr. Wiegand stated that they have to deposit an amount of money – probably $2,500, at least.

Mr. Haller stated that the place looks great, and they’re just going to trash it.

Mr. Graeber stated that he’s been around a bunch of subdivisions in the last…since he’s been there, and he thought the silt fence was excellent, compared to the rest of the subdivisions he’s seen.

Mr. Cole stated that he went past there yesterday, too, but one of the drives back in there, he just wasn’t sure if he should.

Mr. Radtke stated that they have barricades up so that they don’t have everybody going by there.

Mr. Cole stated that it is a beautiful area.  Have we talked much about the slopes on the back lots along the valley?  They look awfully steep.  What kind of slopes are we looking at on the back lots, in the Southwest corner, overlooking Salt Creek?

Mr. Radtke stated that the lots in the first phase are no problem; it’s the ones in the next phase where there is more of a problem.  They are thinking of walkouts on the back area.  There is quite a slope on those.  What they did, on the design of that street, they moved it so they had enough front yard and the house area, so that’s where the dropoff is.

Mr. Cole stated, the neighbors, the two houses in the little inset on the very South end….are there any accommodations here for landscaping or treatment.  He’s sure they don’t want to look out their back yard at a bunch of houses, but, by the same token, he thinks the people in the new houses won’t want to look at their back yards, either.

Mr. Wiegand stated that there is actually, on the back, between the existing residences there and the new lots, there is a landscape easement on the back of the new lots that has already got trees planted on a lot of it, and there will be additional ones put in there probably.

Mr. Cole stated, the people to the East…obviously, Valparaiso is eyeing this for annexation, and that means that the people to the East will have to be included in that annexation for it to be effective.  Are they happy about that?

Mr. Wiegand stated that he would have to say most of them probably are not enthused about being annexed.

Mr. Radtke stated that he has been in a lot of communication with the gentleman right across from the North entrance.  They did some survey work with him and stuff, so he’s comfortable with it, but he’s sure he knows the rest of them are not.

Mr. Cole asked if there is any proposed date when Valparaiso will have the sanitary ready for them to hook on.

Mr. Wiegand stated, he would anticipate within the next 30 to 45 days.  It depends on the final railroad permit, when it gets there.

Mr. Cole asked, are they going to bore?

Mr. Wiegand stated, yes, under the railroad tracks.

Mr. Radtke stated that they have four railroad crossings that they had to get permits from – they have three of them in hand now.

Mr. Haller asked if they have control over finished floor elevations.

Mr. Radtke stated, yes.   They have first floor elevations on every lot and it’s shown on the drawings.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he was going to ask about finalizing everything with Gustke and his neighbor.  That’s between you guys, but he knows there were some conditions pending.  Also, he realizes this is Phase I and South of the railroad tracks, but it seems to him there were some agreements to do all the work along Tower Road, or at least that was the direction they were given by the former Highway engineer, Dave Schelling, and they need to get that cleared up.

Mr. Radtke stated, in his letter, he stated that it should be done rapidly or a similar word prior to any home-building.  It’s a condition they never agreed to.

Mr. Breitzke stated that the other condition he gets concerned about is if this doesn’t get done soon that somebody else might come along and they don’t have the same opportunities, and now they have some reasons that, oh, they can’t do this.  It would be nice to have some binding agreements or something so that, if it doesn’t get done right away, you know it’s going to get done.

Mr. Staab stated, with the improvements on 250, also, since he’s lived there, he put his neck out there a little bit, agreeing to do these improvements on 250 because he has five kids and they live there and they see the traffic and the sight lines.  When that agreement was put in, when they said they wanted to do these improvements to increase the sight lines to 55 miles an hour.  In Phase I, their vision on transitioning into that was, he has to be sensitive to the economic side.  He’s willing to do it, but there’s such a strain of pressure on bringing the water and sewer over from a great distance, plus all the drainage and stuff, the storm.  He would like to see some of that allow them to transition into that, so he can afford to do it.  That’s really what it comes down to.  He wants to do it.  It really needs to be done.  All will benefit from it, but there’s a huge cost there.  He and Mr. Wiegand have talked about it numerous times, but he’s the one paying for it, so he needs a little help transitioning into that.

Mr. Breitzke stated that at the very least they should get their written commitments, some kind of contractual agreement from the neighbor so they know it can happen.

Mr. Staab stated that when they entered into this project, they watched many other projects going on in the area and they saw the riffraff that you guys, and the mockery that a lot of these guys put toward you toward protecting all that with silt fence and all this erosion control.  Even though there were some items that they kind of label as spring cleanup and they kind of got addressed by IDEM popping in on them and whatnot, they apologize for putting them in that position because that’s not their standard – their standard is above and beyond. Mr. Wiegand is  the best.  If there is ever an issue, he wants them to call him.   It tears him up to get a letter saying stop work. He’s there every day, every single day, and it’s not necessary. 

Mr. Thompson stated that he will simply say that they reacted greatly; he appreciates it, however, the stop work letter that he does send out is, unfortunately, necessary in some situations to grab people’s attentions. Now that we’ve seen their reaction and how quickly they react on something like that, he doesn’t foresee that they will probably have to do something like that again.  They will call, however, the unfortunate thing is, with some developments out there, it’s necessary.

Mr. Staab stated that he completely understands that.  He realizes that it’s nothing personal and he’s just doing his job, and that’s why he offers the apology.

Mr. Thompson stated that the work Mr. Wiegand has done in Pepper Creek is pointed out a lot of times, how good it is.  And, here again, the reaction that they saw shows that Mr. Wiegand is very good at this, and next time they will call.  It’s necessary, sometimes, to send those letters out, but all he can say is, thank you – you’ve done a great job.   His opinion is, if they’ve got a little work to do right now, go ahead, get started.  He’s got no problem with it.

Mr. Haller stated that he thinks they need a point of clarification there.  He’s the guy who invited IDEM to the subdivision, because he’s the guy that IDEM contacts when they are coming up here for inspections.  He sent them over there because he was going to need a little pick-me-up after he went through all the subdivisions.  Unbeknownst to him, he hadn’t been in the back of the subdivision and seen what was going on there, or he might have changed his mind, perhaps.  They have to understand, we have various subdivisions in states of litigation over erosion control.  It’s been a gradual process in enforcement, as well as letter-writing and stop work orders, and so forth.  It just gets to the point where all you’ve got left is the minute there’s any evidence of a problem, they stop right then, because, if you don’t, it just generates a tremendous amount of lawsuits and paperwork and nonsense that they don’t need to be doing.  They need to be on the site managing the projects, not filling out reports and talking to lawyers, so that was the impetus for the cease and desist order, if you will.   But he wants to reiterate that you guys responded like – I should be paying you.  So, he’s very happy with that.

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 9:50 a.m.