DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE

Regular Meeting
March 7, 2008

M I N U T E S

The regular meeting of the Development Advisory Committee was held on March 7, 2008 in the Porter County Administration Center, 155 Indiana Avenue, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Those members present were Kevin Breitzke, Tim Cole, James Branham, Kelly Cadwell, Julia Martin, Ray Joseph, Ray Riddell, Mike Haller, Paul Graeber and Robert W. Thompson Jr.  Also present was Toni Byers.

The following cases were heard by the Committee on this date:

Case 08-3-4.  Petition of Michael Bates (Colorcraft), 677 W. SR 130, Hobart, seeking developmental review for an addition to an auto body painting business at 677 W. SR 130, in Union Township.  Zoned I-1.  (Sec.2-35N-7W)

Rich Hudson stated that he is representing the petitioner in this matter.  He stated that this is an existing building out on SR 130 West of Wheeler on the North side.  The purpose of the plan is to show a proposed storage building on an existing building.  It’s a 64 by 60 addition, which, in his drawing, is highlighted in yellow.  The area on the West side is half of a right-of-way that goes through there, half of a roadway, so that the gross acreage is a little bit more than 1.8 and the net is about 1.7.  The building is marked out and highlighted on his drawing, both the addition and the existing building highlighted in black.  With this addition, the total lot coverage is increased to 44 percent, which includes the addition.

Mr. Thompson stated that this will be heard at the April 9th meeting of the Plan Commission under old business.  This is an existing minor subdivision that he thinks Mr. Bates did.  It’s four lots and he is in Lot 1.

Ms. Cadwell asked if they are hooked to sewer or not.

Mr. Hudson stated, yes, White Oak Conservancy District.

Ms. Cadwell asked if he knows if they have a well.

Mr. Breitzke stated that they do.

Mr. Hudson stated that Indiana American Water runs right down the….

Mr. Haller stated that he thinks this one is on a well.

Mr. Thompson stated that on the plan he has there is a note that water is supplied by Indiana American Water.

Mr. Breitzke stated that that should be verified.

Mr. Branham stated that it's his understanding that they paint cars and asked what they are going to store. He is concerned with fire emergency services and depending on what they are storing, it would impact the fire response.

Mr. Hudson stated that he can find that out.

Mr. Branham stated that he would like to know if it’s going to be flammables or anything of that sort and, if so, they probably should consider, at least in that area, a sprinkler system.

Mr. Breitzke stated that they should also have a lockbox on this.

Mr. Joseph stated that he needs to show erosion control on the plat. 

Mr. Thompson stated that he is going to go out there and make sure that all the drainage system is in.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he’d like to see some as-built or current shots on the outlet and a few shots along the width and length of the pond, some verification shots, particularly at the standpipe, its outlet, elevations of the top of standpipe, the inlet and the outlet as it is, and also for the existing swale from the site or pipe or whatever is in there now – existing drainage for the site.

Mr. Thompson stated that he’s showing the drainage from the North side with the swale that’s going underneath the minor sub road and we would like to see what size pipe it is, the inverts.  He comments that it's a 12-inch pipe and we just want verification on it.  This is a minor sub and he would like to make sure the approved drainage system is in and is functioning. 

Mr. Breitzke asked if it is grass where they are putting in the proposed drive.

Mr. Hudson stated that it's grass right now and it will be consistent with the rest of the parking lot once it’s done.

Mr. Breitzke stated that if there is an existing swale he would like some shots of it, but he suspects there isn’t anything there right now.

Mr. Hudson stated that the way the site is now, the slope is to the North, so it will continue.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he would like the inverts for the existing 12-inch pipe under the roadway to the pond.   We are going to need more details on the proposed pond.  There should be a road number and private road sign, a stop sign and a no-outlet sign.

Mr. Riddell asked if INDOT needs to be contacted, if there are going to be any increases to 130.

Mr. Hudson stated that he can’t answer that.

Mr. Haller stated that Lisa’s Gymnastics is on Lot 2, which is a fairly large commercial building built up on a pad and it’s probably three feet higher than the ground behind Colorcraft, which, sort of by default, forms this little drainage pond or easement.  He doesn’t recall the actual pond being constructed there.  He knows that there is no blacktop in front of the existing pole building to the West side, and he knows that there is a rudimentary detention area on the West side, but he doesn’t recall it being built to any sort of spec.  If memory serves him correctly, the Colorcraft building is also sitting on a raised building pad, which the elevations don’t reflect properly.

Mr. Hudson stated that he has finished floor of the existing building.  He shows outside the existing building.  If you look on the North side, where the proposed addition is, it looks like there are some spot elevations of 101 at the corners, and then on the South side of the existing building he’s got 101.5, which would lead him to believe there’s a pad there.

Mr. Haller stated that if he remembers correctly where he’s got the proposed building that’s raised ground.  Their property is kind of a distinct island there and it forms a pretty good low spot between them and Lisa’s Gymnastics.

Mr. Breitzke stated that there is a length to width ratio that has to be maintained on the proposed pond.  Does he know what kind of outlet control he is going to put on that?

Mr. Hudson stated that he does not.

Mr. Cole stated that his main concern is outside storage.  There is an nice little bypass blister on the South side of 130 and he took a look at things there.  Does he store some of the automobiles that he is working on outside for any length of time?

Mr. Hudson stated that he doesn’t know. He doesn’t see things out there when he goes by.

Mr. Cole stated that it’s neat and clean, but he just worries about security.  It tends to attract people.  The other concern is that we do have this little density of commercial/industrial type buildings plopped right there on this little bit of acreage surrounded  by pretty much of nothing.  But there is Duck Creek to the North, and he would think Duck Creek people would be worried about any future development around this.  Does Mr. Bates own any other ground?

Mr. Hudson stated that he does not know.

Mr. Thompson stated, to explain a little bit of a history on this, Mr. Bates used to live out on 600 W., he thinks, South of 130, and he was doing his business out of his garage and the Plan Commission office chased him out of there and told him he can’t be doing that at home and it was kind of a hobby or something that he was doing, as far as painting cars and restoring old vehicles.  Then the minor subdivision was starting and he thinks he ended up purchasing it and then decided to make his hobby into a real business for it.  He sold off the other lots and retained one. 

Mr. Cole asked if this is the full extent of the minor sub?

Mr. Thompson stated, yes.

Mr. Cole stated that he would like to see some plans for increased security if he’s going to enlarge the business.  He also worries about the gymnastics center back there.

Mr. Breitzke stated that it is zoned I-1, and perhaps they should double-check to see if there were any commitments connected with the rezoning.

Issues raised were to verify if this is on well or city water; consider sprinkler system and lockbox; show erosion control on the plan; landscape plan and details; as-builts or current shots on outlet and pond – standpipe details; details for existing drainage from the pond and pipe inverts; is the swale existing or proposed?; inverts for existing pipe under the road to the pond; private road sign, no-outlet sign, stop sign; check length and width ratio on the pond; plan for increased security.

Case 08-3-6.  Petition of Robert & Helen Surman, 696 W. 350 S., Hebron, seeking primary plat review for a major subdivision, Surman’s Point, to be located at 696 W. 350 S., in Porter Township.  To contain 2 lots on 6.327 acres.  Zoned RR.  (Sec.23-34N-7W)

Sallie Surman, 203 N. College, Valparaiso, stated that she is the petitioner in this matter.

Mr. Thompson stated that this was before the Plan Commission.  It was a rezone of a parcel and there is an existing residence on the North part, up towards 350 S.  They got the RR rezoning, with commitments.  The commitment was that there would only be one additional building site on this parcel of land, so they are coming before DAC with the primary plat to divide off that one parcel.  The reason for the division is that Ms. Surman and her husband are going to be moving in next to her husband’s parents to look over them.

Ms. Cadwell stated that they did do a review on this and it was sent out to Mike Krull.   They need to see the location of the well and septic for the existing house on the plat.  They need to know if there are any restrooms or showers in any of the barns and, if there are, then they need to see the wells and septics.  They need to calculate the useable acreage.  The hydric soils need to be delineated by a soil scientist.  They need a mound system.  This is an AT&T fiber optic easement and they need permission from them to show that they can cross it so they can access the area that they are trying to put the septic system.  They do have soil borings on the lot, but there are none in the area that they are trying to put the septic, so they need to get some up in that area.  There are a lot of complex slope issues.  There is a drainageway that goes in here, so there are some issues with the lot, so it would be best to actually try and design a mound system and see if it’s actually going to fit in there, in the area that they have.

Ms. Surman asked if Ms. Cadwell is able to show them where it’s going to work.

Ms. Cadwell stated that she doesn’t have too many options.  It’s pretty much going to have to go as they have it drawn, so that’s pretty much where they need the borings.  They are not going to put it down here in the triangle part – it’s too narrow – so, the upper part is really the only area that they are going to have available for it.  They just don’t have any soil borings up in there right now.

Mr. Breitzke stated that they need the laterals over at least one of the test borings.

Mr. Joseph asked if they are going to access 700 W. from this site.

Ms. Surman stated that that’s where they are going to do the driveway.

Mr. Joseph asked if the driveway is probably going to have to have a culvert or something across the ditch.

Ms. Surman stated that the ditch isn’t really that thick there, but they’d have to have something probably, whatever they need to hold up the driveway. The ditch is stronger on the other side, on that side, because they go out there every month and pull the garbage out there, and, over there, you can almost walk.

Mr. Joseph stated that they will have to show where it’s going to access 700 to make sure it doesn’t go over the AT&T easement.   They also need a proposed landscaping plan for where the trees and shrubs are going to be placed.

Mr. Thompson asked if she and her husband have a house that they have picked out.

Ms. Surman stated, not yet.  

Mr. Thompson stated that the reason he’s saying that – 50 foot by 70 foot – it’s a decent sized house, but it’s getting tight in there with all those easements and he just wants to make sure that they are actually able to fit the home that they want on that lot.  There are Variances they can go for later if they find out this is not going to fit, but he would really like them to make sure the house they want is going to fit on this lot.  With all the easements and trying to make sure they get the septic in, they are also going to be limited on the out buildings that they want to put on.  He would say that a detached garage would be very difficult to put on this lot.

Ms. Surman stated that the plans they looked at, the garage is attached.

Mr. Thompson stated that he just wants to make sure she is aware of the fact that an out building, other than maybe a small shed, is probably going to be extremely difficult to put on this parcel.   The Plan Commission office can’t permit it on top of a septic field nor anything inside of the easements nor outside of the setbacks that they have.  There should be no access out to SR 2.

Mr. Breitzke stated that he didn’t realize that there are Pewamo, or hydric, soils here on a good part of this lot.  It’s hard for foundations and they’ve got a wider easement than he imagined for AT&T.  He agrees with Mr. Thompson that they might want to consider, rather than having Lot 2 South of the farmhouse to put a lot East of the farmhouse.  They have more than 1 acre East of the driveway, and, if they could put the line East of the driveway it looks like…is that Elliot…

Ms. Cadwell stated that it is.

Mr. Breitzke stated that they might have more success with the septic system up here.  They need to delineate the Pewamo soils and they may find themselves short of enough area, because they need at least 1 acre that isn’t under easement or under hydric soils.  He thinks they might be heading into some problems now that we have the big picture, because it’s getting real tight.  They might want to consider switching over to East of the driveway to where he thinks they will have success with the septic system and enough acreage and enough room to do some other things, if that’s possible.  Is there an existing drive out to 2?

Ms. Surman stated, you come in off of 350, she believes, and there was a drive to 2, but they have that blocked off, but there is an existing drive out there.

Mr. Breitzke stated that that’s something that she might want to revisit before they start spending money on additional borings.  It’s just very tight and limited in what they can do in the future. 

Ms. Cadwell stated that that’s a very large AT&T easement and they can’t count that as the useable acreage, so there is a big question whether they are going to have 1 acre of useable down there, subtracting out the easements and hydric soils.

Mr. Breitzke stated that they are going to have to have more soil borings anyway, have a delineation for the hydric soil anyway, and, if it proves out hydric, they might not make the acreage that they are required to make, plus, he’d really advise against putting a foundation in hydric soils, if they can help it.

Mr. Cole stated, looking down the road, might she and her in-laws switch houses?

Ms. Surman stated, it’s possible.

Mr. Cole stated that maybe that might be a little more ideal for them to put the house up there.  It’s better soil and there might be some more room, though not that much more.  That might allow them to do some nice landscaping down at the South part.

Issues raised were to show where the existing well and septic are; are there any restrooms or showers in the barns; calculate the useable acreage; delineate hydric soils; need mound system; need permission to cross easement from AT&T; soil borings in area where they are putting the septic; show access location on 700 W.; proposed landscaping plan; make sure they can fit the house they want on the lot; consider putting the lot East of the farmhouse.

At this time, Mr. Haller stated that the Building/Planning Departments will be getting new software that allows unlimited users and there will be a videoconference at 2 p.m. March 13th concerning the software and any department interested in using it should be present at the meeting.

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:00 a.m.