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PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL The Porter County Council met on Thursday, January 10, 2008 at 5:00 p.m. in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana-Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana. Members present were Jim Burge, Michael Bucko, William Carmichael, Matthew Murphy, Rita Stevenson, Dan Whitten, and President Bob Poparad. Also present was Auditor James Kopp, and Jan Noll. Mr. Poparad called the meeting was called to order with the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Poparad, We won’t need a roll call. I just want to thank everybody for coming. I’ve got a couple things to say. Based on what I’ve gathered… Mr. Bucko, I did that. Mr. Poparad, You going to sit down or not. Mr. Carmichael, Easy, Bob. Mr. Poparad, Out of the 92 counties in this state, 64 of them, of which we were one, sent out late tax bills last year. This county spent approximately $3,000,000 plus dollars in interest on TAW’s, and this group sitting up here has sort of been committed that we are going to try and change that for this year. Mr. Kopp, It’s 300,000, not three million. Mr. Poparad, No, the entire county. All the governmental units… Mr. Kopp, Oh. Mr. Poparad, Spent three-plus million dollars based on our research. And our goal is that we won’t repeat that. How we get to that goal will be a subject of a lot of discussion. So, what I’d like to start off with, I want to thank the assessors for sending back their responses to the letter I had. Do you guys have anything to add to that before we, you know, about where you’re at? I’m going to get to you, John, in a minute. I want to see where the townships are. You’ve got your residential done, now stop me when I’m going, you know, wacko here, but you got your residential done, now you’re working on commercial? Commercial work? Is that pretty… Mr. Whitten, You’re going wacko. Mr. Poparad, Well, I’m not going to know the terms, so. John, you’ve got commercial in your office, and doing the ratio study now with the trending study. County Assessor John Scott, Commercial is in. Mr. Poparad, No, the residential. I mean, you’ve got, the residential has been turned into you? Mr. Scott, Yes, but there’s still a few that they are going over to make sure that they are correct before we send them down. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Okay, and then we’ve got to do the commercial, correct? Mr. Scott, And the commercial is, the Income Works that we asked to, the Council to okay… Mr. Poparad, Right. Mr. Scott, And the Commissioners. Mr. Poparad, Right. Mr. Scott, Said that they have enough information right now to do what they need to do, but we had to buy a, a, from Marshall Swift, which we thought we were going to have to spend something like 40-some odd thousand to buy it, we got the numbers that we need to include that for 525-bucks. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Mr. Scott, And we cut the check for that, and as soon as they get that back to us, they will send it to us, and they’ll, Income Works will help us enter those in. I think there’s over 900 commercial pieces of property that we need to look at. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Mr. Scott, The, as soon as that happens, and we get that, those commish, commercial numbers to work with, and they show the assessors and my office how to work them, it will take about a week for us to do that, and then he said he would do the trending. It wasn’t, it’s not in his contract, but he said he would extend himself to do the trending, once the trending, he said would take less than a week, and that’ll come back to my office to have the equalization done.
Mr. Poparad, Okay. One of the things that, me and the attorney went to Indianapolis a couple of weeks ago and met with Cheryl Musgrave and, now correct me if I’m wrong, but basically at this point in time we’re roughly a year behind in our, where we’re at in the process. That a fair number? Okay, let’s call it nine months or whatever. Treasurer James Murphy, I don’t think I, yes, I certainly will. Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. J. Murphy, I’ll get on the band wagon on this one. I think, I can’t do anything until the Auditor, after March 16th tells me he can’t deliver an abstract, and then I could… Mr. Poparad, No, no. No, she said, if you send a letter she will grant you permission. Mr. J. Murphy, But now there’s an Indiana code that says that… Mr. Poparad, She said, if you send a letter, she will grant you permission. Mr. J. Murphy, Alright. Then I need to see some instruction on what she wants to hear, I mean what she wants. Mr. Poparad, Well that, I’ll leave that up to you to get with her, but she said, the head of the DLGF will do nothing to stand it our way of sending out tax bills. That’s one thing we left that meeting with, her full backing, an estimated she said. That gives us a breathing space to get caught up by November, and hopefully get this thing back on track, so. Mr. Whitten, Mr. Chairman, can I ask a question? Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. Whitten, I mean, are you telling me, are you telling us that you need something from the auditor to be able to send a letter to the State to request estimated tax bills? Mr. J. Murphy, The Indiana code requires the Auditor to notify me on or before March 15th or 16th and that he is unable to deliver an abstract. Mr. Poparad, That, that was under the old, based on what me and Dave gathered, that was under the old provisional law of provisional tax bills. No, that doesn’t, we’re not talking about provisionals. Mr. J. Murphy, So now that that law is gone, now I don’t have… Mr. Poparad, No, she said that… Mr. J. Murphy, I don’t have any real guidelines. Mr. Poparad, That is referring to provisional tax bills which was just personal property or real property like we talked last year and that. No, this is an estimated tax bill, and it’s 50% of this year’s bill. All you have to do is ask permission. Mr. Whitten, See I think what we’re, where we’re at, if I may. Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. Whitten, We don’t really care what it takes, and we don’t really care what has to be done by anybody that’s holding office in this county. We absolutely cannot have another year like this last one. Mr. Poparad, Right, that’s where… Mr. Whitten, We just can’t have that. So I think what our Chairman is telling you is, we are asking you to do whatever you need to do to get this done. Mr. J. Murphy, I can do that. That’s not a problem. Mr. Poparad, Yes. He’s referencing the provisional law which we did talk about. That is true. Mr. Whitten, That’s the old game. Mr. Poparad, Yes, but this is an estimated bill, and that solves your personal property, trying to figure out all that, like the difficulties we were faced with last year. We’re not doing that. We just send out of half of this year’s bill on May 10th, and then we’ll correct it in the fall. That, that’s, that gives everybody in this room time to get brought up to speed. Mr. J. Murphy, Did she tell you, I mean about the, if the provisional bill… Mr. Poparad, No, no, don’t use the word provisional. Mr. J. Murphy, Then the reconciling bill which follows the provisional, was that thrown out too? Mr. Poparad, Well we’re going to reconcile in November. We’ll reconcile at the second draw. Mr. J. Murphy, Alright. Mr. Poparad, You know, we’re calling it an estimated tax bill.
Mr. J. Murphy, Sounds a little fuzzy, but we’ll… Mr. J. Murphy, And when do you want it come due, May 10th?
Mr. Poparad, Yes, just a regular tax draw. So this gives you a window to get all the details worked out. If, you know, if you need some help, we’ll talk about that later. Then this gives everybody space and time to get our work caught up. I mean, hopefully, I think even though we’re a year behind, we’re going to have some more discussion about prioritizing, focusing of resources, whatever word you want to use, and then maybe by November, everything, we all get caught up on the same page. Alright, I’ve talked enough. Anybody got any questions before we go any further, because there’s more to this? Nobody has any questions? Nobody wants to comment? No? No?
Center Township Assessor Susan Larson, I’m here. Mr. J. Murphy, Yes. Mr. Poparad, Okay, we got the answer right there. The second issue is, the rebate check that the State has issued to us for homestead credits, by law it’s supposed to be 31 days after the taxes are due, the rebate check is supposed to be back in the homeowners’ hand. Jim, from what I’m gathering lately, that’s not going to happen. Right? Mr. Kopp, I think we have up to 51 days, but it’s probably going to be 35… Mr. Poparad, Okay, no, we’re done. This Board is inclined to hire her firm. We have the money, correct? Mr. Kopp, Yes, but we don’t have an approved abstract. That’s the holdup. Mr. Poparad, Well, that’s my point. We’re inclined to hire her firm to send out this rebate check to get it to the taxpayers, like they are entitled to, working in conjunction with your office, so your office does not slow down. We are of the opinion, well first of all the law is, the check has to be out there. Your opinion, we’re not going to make it presently. Mr. Kopp, The software is written, I don’t have an approved abstract. Mr. Poparad, I think this Board is inclined to send it, have her firm send this check out, that way your office does fall behind. Mr. Kopp, Bob, you don’t understand. We can’t… Mr. Poparad, You’re correct, Jim. Correct. I’m not done yet. You’re correct, I do not understand, and this Board is not too inclined to listen anymore. We have decided to contract this work out to get the tax money back in the taxpayers’ hands. So now if that’s in conjunction with your office or IT or however that has to be done, we’ve made that decision. Well, first of all, that’s law. So this will not in any way impede you in your office of getting whatever, you know, this ongoing process of work. Mr. Whitten, Mr. Chairman, can I ask you a question? Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. Whitten, What are you saying, Jim, is left to be done to get that done. You’re saying you can’t make the deadline. What’s left? Mr. Kopp, The TIF and the abstract has been in Indianapolis for about a month. I got an email today after jogging them again telling, they told me last time it would three or four weeks, they’re too busy settling counties that billed back. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Kopp, They had Janie Cope look at it finally today, and she came back and said they’re going to request some more information, which they requested later today so that we can start working on getting the TIF corrected. TIF has to be completed on the abstract before we can advance the PTRC’s. So we’ve got to get the abstract done. Mr. Whitten, Okay, is that something that we’re going to be asking her to do? Mr. Poparad, I’m sorry, I missed a little bit of it. About the abstract? Mr. Whitten, Yes. Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. Whitten, About the work that’s left to be done. Mr. Poparad, Yes, I mean I’m of the opinion that her firm should be utilized wherever we see fit to keep this process going forward. That, you know, there’s a couple issues, a lot of us feel the homestead credit wasn’t figured right at the county level from the EDIT money. Mr. Whitten, Right.
Mr. Poparad, There’s a lot of things that we’re going to use this, her firm or her representatives, she works for the firm, and I just want, you know, I wanted everybody to be aware of what’s coming about the middle of February, give her 30, 45 days, then we’re going to come back and have another meeting, and we’re going to sit here, and if Susan needs more help in Center, then Susan’s going to get more help, or any of the above. Mr. Whitten, Can I ask a question, Bob? Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. Whitten, Does anybody in this room anticipate a problem with giving access to our consultant, because I don’t want to hear later that there’s a problem or we don’t want to give her information, or we don’t think it’s proper to give her this. Tell us now so that we can deal with it, and send her in anyway. So is there anybody that has a problem with that? Mr. Scott, Not at all. Mr. Poparad, John, no. I mean we’re here to help. She’s here, we hired her to help us, so we can get this done, and that’s where we are headed here. I mean I’m sure the Commissioners, she’ll have access to IT. Sharon, you here? Hi, Sharon. She’ll have access to everyone, and she’ll go in and figure out what’s going on here. If we got a bottleneck in Susan’s office, well then we’ll help Susan. I mean does anybody got any thoughts on this or does anybody want to jump up and scream or anything? We got a plan. Mr. Bucko, It sounds like to me you’ve got a plan, and there’s catch to back it up. Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. Bucko, There’s a method, the method should work. Everybody should come out of this smelling like a rose. Mr. Poparad, Is that, anybody got any comments? Questions? Anybody? I mean… Mr. Whitten, Well I would just like to say, Bob, that it seems like when we have a lot of joint meetings, last year we had a lot of different time frames, there were a lot of things going on at the state level. I’ve heard that a lot of other counties didn’t get their tax bills out on time. Mr. Poparad, 64 of them.
Mr. Whitten, That’s a lot. However, I’ve got to tell you, I’m not one for being part of that crowd that doesn’t get it done. We need to do whatever we’ve got to do, because I’m telling you, our constituency is pissed off. They’re angry. You know it, I know it, we hear it daily. Anybody in here that doesn’t realize that the taxpayers of Porter County are angry right now is living with their heads in the sand. Mr. Poparad, Well we’re not going to. We’ve already decided we send out the estimated, and I’m sure we’ll have this cleaned up by November with throwing some resources at it, and whatever we need to do. Anybody got anything? I want to thank everybody for coming on this lovely winter evening. Is there any comments, questions? Mr. Kopp, would you please stay afterwards, I’d like to talk to you. Yes, go ahead. Porter Township Assessor Catherine Hall, I just have a question. Mr. Poparad, Yes. Ms. Hall, We’re trying to, you know, prepare for doing personal property and stuff. I just wanted to know is, what am I going to put my personal property in this year? Mr. Poparad, When? Ms. Hall, Nobody seems to know. Well, I’m asking Jim. Is Hamer going to be ready for us to do personal property this year, or are we going to go back to Propman, you said, because we’re all getting ready to start entering our information, and we have no way to go with that. Mr. Poparad, Okay, Sharon? Jim? IT Director Sharon Lippens, When are you going to be ready? Ms. Hall, I’m ready to start right now. Ms. Lippens, That was brought up at one of the last meetings… Ms. Hall, I’m ready. At this time there was an inaudible conversation between Mr. Scott and Ms. Lippens. Mr. Poparad, Sharon, I’m sorry. You talking? Ms. Lippens, Hamer has a personal property mobile home program. Right now, it’s customized for Texas. They are working with the State to get all of the Indiana rules implemented. But as far as the timeframe, I don’t know, I don’t know what the timeframe is for them to get it put in, and we have to certify it. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Ms. Lippens, It, if it’s the next couple of months, Hamer should be ready. It should be the next couple of months for them to start putting stuff in. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Ms. Lippens, That was one of the questions that we asked, who are they going to use this year for that. Mr. Poparad, Okay, have you made that decision, John? Or is that your decision? Mr. Scott, AS/2 said that they would defend us this year to take us through until the whole thing is up. We, there was asked when Hamer was here about whether they have NADA book, have the system in the NADA book, and, for the mobile homes. And I didn’t really get a clear answer with that, but they may have it. That’s a national… Mr. Poparad, Actually, that’s a very good question, which of course I have no clue what you are talking about, but that’s beside the point. If, when Beth comes around, if all these, if you guys could pose all these questions to her, then she could correlate, you know, answers or a plan of attack, you know, that at least gives us a picture of what, you know, what you’re trying to do, because I don’t have a clue, that’s why we hired her.
Mr. Scott, Well AS/2 said they would do it. I know that Sharon doesn’t get along with the AS/2 person because of whatever reason, personalities or whatever, I don’t care. Just as long as we get the job done.
Mr. Scott, It needs to… Mr. Scott, The green to print it out, because the State asks you to put it in a certain sequence to put it on the greenbar. Ms. Meyer, Format. Mr. Scott, Format the greenbar. Suzie Villarruel, Can I speak up? Mr. Poparad, Yeah. I can’t hear you, but come up anyway.
Ms. Villarruel, I work in John’s office, and we had a meeting yesterday in regards to the software, and there was two questions asked. One was in regard to two personal property mobile homes, and the other one with Manatron. In regards to the personal property, which is mobile homes and the personal property, we have a phone call into Sharon, and we also have a phone call into AS/2. AS/2 is going to be contacted by the Hamer people to find out what, because the AS/2 is the ones we currently have for the personal property. They said in no way are they going to hamper us from moving forward. They will work with us. They will work with us, you know, for this year to get the data if we have to use their program this year. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Alright, I think maybe one of the things that we’re going to use Beth’s firm for is communication. At least we have somebody to go to. We have somebody to go to; maybe you have somebody to go to, you know, that’s neutral. Let’s use that word standing off to the side, and we’ll see if we can get this done. I’m very optimistic, the fact we are sending out estimated bills gives us, you know, stops the bleeding--for lack of a better word. It takes all the time pressure off, because nobody functions good under pressure, generally most of us don’t. And it gives us a little time and breathing space to fix this mess by November. Maybe we get back on track so we’re not a year behind. I don’t know, sounds like a plan. Anybody got any comments? Any thoughts? Suggestions? Beth, you’ll get a list of the townships and the county officials and their phone numbers and all that, and you’ll take care of calling for appointments, etc, etc, or whatever. Mr. Whitten, Bob, do we need a vote on this? Beth Henkel, And I do want to comment that the whole idea is to get a, it sounds like there’s so many discreet things to take care of, and the prioritizing so that we can go together on a work plan, and then, you know, coordinate the plan, express that to the Council, and get it all back on track. It sounds like the abstract is the absolute, most important thing to get resolved now so the rebate checks can get out. And TIF, you know, I’ve heard about the TIF issues, so. Mr. Whitten, Bob, do we need some kind of vote on this? Mr. Poparad, I think we need a motion to retain her services.
Mr. Whitten moved to retain Beth Henkel and the firm of Schuckit & Associates. Mr. Bucko seconded. Mr. Carmichael, Question. Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. Carmichael, Do we have a contract in front of us? Mr. Poparad, No, she’s going to get a proposal to us. Mr. Whitten, And I think, won’t the Commissioners sign that contract? Mr. Poparad, Yes, the Commissioners will have to sign the contract. Mr. Carmichael, We should see the contract before we… Mr. Poparad, We can always ask the Commissioners not to sign it. I just thought we’d getting something… Mr. Whitten, I’ll amend my motion.
Mr. Whitten moved to amend his motion to retain Beth Henkel and the firm of Schuckit & Associates, contingent upon the approval of the Commissioners. Mr. Bucko seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote. Ms. Henkel, Thank you. Mr. Carmichael, One thing I wanted to clear up with Jim, the additional homestead credit that we plan on giving, that’ll be caught up in the November billing? Would that work out? Mr. Poparad, We’ll talk to you later. Mr. Murphy, I have no idea. I don’t know what part of the code I’m working with here on this job, but that’s alright. Mr. Poparad, Right. Well that was one of the things we wanted her to check with, the homestead credit we got from the State, because based on our math it didn’t work out too well. It didn’t work out to what we thought it should, and we need to check that at least, so. Anybody, any questions? I want to thank everybody for coming. You got any thoughts? Mrs. Meyers, Thank you for taking a look at our offices, because we’re swamped. Mr. Poparad, Yes, well that’s what we, we’re going to figure out what’s wrong here, and we’re going to fix it. Now how we fix it, you know, if we’ve got hire somebody, we hire somebody, that’s all. Is that it? Mr. Whitten, I move to adjourn, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Poparad, Thank you, we’re done. There being no further business, meeting adjourned at 5:30 p.m.
PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL Attest: James Kopp, Auditor |
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January 10, 2008