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PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL The Porter County Council held the Public Hearing and First Readings for the proposed 2008 Porter County Budget, on Monday, August 27, 2007 at 5:00 p.m., in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana - Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana. Members present were Mike Bucko, Jim Burge, William Carmichael, Matt Murphy, Bob Poparad, Rita Stevenson, and President Dan Whitten. Also present were Auditor Jim Kopp, Lindy Wilson, and Jan Noll. Mr. Whitten called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance. At this time, Mr. Whitten read the Rules of Conduct for the public hearing. FIRST READING Mr. Whitten, The first thing on the agenda is First Reading. Do you want to run through these, Mr… Mr. Kopp, Do you want me to read it? Mr. Whitten, Yes, why don’t you. Mr. Kopp, Okay. First Reading for the County General Fund, $41,152,997. Mr. Whitten, 41,152, isn’t it? Or am I not reading this right? Oh, you’re right, I’m sorry. Go ahead. Mr. Kopp, It’s 41 million, unless you’re reading a different one than I am. Mr. Whitten, Keep going. Mr. Kopp, Okay. Motor Vehicle Highway, $4,835,677. Local Roads & Streets, $1,379,400. Highway Cumulative Bridge, $468,600. Health, $1,749,012. NIRPC, $135,642. Cumulative CCD Fund, $1,445,400. Reassessment Fund, $417,277. Courthouse Bond, $965,253. Juvenile Lease Rent Payment, $953,040. The Jail Bond, $3,890,040. Aviation, $1,210,601. Aviation Cumulative Building Fund, $376,200. Welfare Family & Children, $10,856,340. Children’s Psychiatric Treatment, $1,475,860. Expo Center, $686,786. Prosecutor Deferral Fund, $501,952. Health Maintenance, $89,213. Antabuse, $145,170. Prosecutor Pretrial Diversion, $101,674. Home Detention, $139,003. Juvenile Probation User Fees, $155,704. Adult Probation User Fees, $606,742. Convention, Recreation & Visitors Commission, $1,161,974. Hazardous Substance, $263,239. Parks Operating, $104,808. Memorial Opera House, $381,203. Prosecutor IV, $86,682. Clerk Perpetual, $59,767. Health Tobacco, $72,937. Jail 217, $1,298,756. Commissioners 233, $972,512. Juvenile Probation Administration Fees, $26,292. Auditor Mapping, $86,855. County Corrections, $118,800. LEPC, $102,102. VIN Checks, $5,280. Health Bioterrorism, $66,000. Planning & Building Department, $848,208. CEDIT 1, $1,000,320. CEDIT 2, $396,000. CEDIT 3, $231,000. CEDIT 4, $561,000. CEDIT 5, $26,400. CEDIT 8, $180,000. CEDIT 9, $120,000. CEDIT 19, $360,000. Opportunity Enterprises, $831,600. Porter-Starke, $1,935,362. Perpetual Fund from the Recorder’s Office, $207,292. The Porter County Bailout Loan, $36,194. Major Moves, $1,500,000. Juvenile Debt, $166,974. Juvenile Detention CODES, $30,828. Enhanced Access, $12,000. Sheriff’s Civil Bureau Fees, $6,623. Health Grant, $96,355. Porter County Services, $219,600. And, Family Youth Services Bureau, $600,000. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Thank you very much. PUBLIC HEARING Mr. Whitten, We now have some public input. I’ve got three people on the sign-up sheet. Anybody wishing to speak can certainly come forward. I can’t read that name. John…
John Ihnat, I-Nat. Lady and gentlemen, my name is John Ihnat, I live in Jackson Township. I am here in recognition of your motion, and your attempt to do what you are supposed to be doing with your job. I’ve had the good fortune to talk to a couple of you people during the week, last week, and I expressed to a few of you, and I’m here to express a little bit in the public eye. Mr. Whitten, Thank you, sir. Mr. Ihnat, I am not happy with this government the way it’s being run. Mr. Whitten, Thank you, sir. Mr. Carmichael, Thanks, John. Mr. Burge, Thanks, John. Mr. Whitten, Ed Melendez. Mr. Carmichael, He’s right. Ed Melendez, Good evening. Mr. Whitten, Good evening. How are you? Mr. Carmichael, Hi, Ed.
Mr. Melendez, Just fine. Earlier in the month I gave each one of you our new master plan for the next five years in the Porter County Parks. I wanted to thank you and the commissioners for helping us fund this program, but keep in mind, that is a program that takes five to ten years down the road is what we’re looking at. A lot of agencies have had a lot of input into our county park master plan. The County’s planning department has worked real closely with us onto this. Mr. Whitten, Thank you, Ed. Appreciate you coming. Mr. Melendez, Thank you. Mr. Murphy, Thank you. Mr. Whitten, Becky Fox. Becky Fox, Good evening. Mr. Whitten, Good evening. Ms. Fox, I wanted to apologize for Lorelei’s absence, and make sure that you did receive her notes directed on our budget submission, and I’m available to answer any questions if you have them directly. Mr. Whitten, I think we may have questions as we move through some of these budgets, but we certainly got her stuff. Mr. Carmichael, I’ve got a question for Becky. Ms. Fox, Sure. Mr. Carmichael, The money that the National Lakeshore is paying. Ms. Fox, Uh huh. Mr. Carmichael, Where’s it going? Ms. Fox, It’s going directly, well, once it gets reappropriated back into our operating, to fund the building maintenance. Mr. Carmichael, Does it go to their account or does it come back to the County to be reappropriated? Ms. Fox, It comes to us to, to be reappropriated, yes. Did I answer that correctly? Mr. Carmichael, No. Ms. Fox, I’m sorry. They, it comes to the County, which then we will then come to you, and say, we’d like it reappropriated… Mr. Carmichael, It does come to the County. Ms. Fox, Into our budget, so. Mr. Carmichael, Is this correct, Auditor? Mr. Kopp, What was the question? Mr. Whitten, The money from the National Lakeshore, where does it, how does it flow? Does it flow to the County money, and then out to them or to them, and? Mr. Kopp, I would assume it comes into the general fund, then back out. Mr. Carmichael, You would assume. Mr. Kopp, That’s where the money generally comes in. To the general fund, and then it’s transferred over. I don’t know specifically, and I’m not prepared to answer the question, specifically. Mr. Carmichael, Let’s get an answer to that before the next meeting. Okay?
Ms. Fox, Okay. Ms. Fox, September 5th. Mr. Whitten, September 5th, okay. Great. Thank you very much. Mr. Murphy, Thank you. Mr. Whitten, Any other individuals wishing to speak? Mr. Carmichael, Yes, there’s… Mr. Whitten, Nobody else signed up. Annetta Jones, I just wanted to make sure that we were in the budget, because we weren’t listed when you went down that list. Mr. Carmichael, The Extension? Ms. Jones, Uh huh. Mr. Whitten, You’re in here somewhere. Ms. Noll, You’re in the general fund, overall. Mr. Whitten, Yes. Ms. Jones, Okay. Alright. Ms. Noll, We didn’t do a breakdown of the budgets. Ms. Jones, Okay. Mr. Whitten, There’s 90-some budgets. Mr. Carmichael, The county general fund, the first one. Ms. Jones, So we’re included in that. Mr. Carmichael, Yeah, you get 41 million. Ms. Jones, Okay, excellent, I think I would just like to say we’ll be able to operate just fine with that amount. Thank you. Mr. Carmichael, As long as you give us some back. Ms. Jones, I would be glad to, yes. Mr. Whitten, You’re set for August 30th, second reading. Ms. Jones, Right, okay. Thanks. Mr. Whitten, Anybody else wishing to speak? Going once, going twice. Mr. Carmichael, Let me ask John Ihnat. Mr. Whitten, Sure. Mr. Carmichael, Hey, John, have you thought about the CEDIT funds? Did you read today’s Vidette or what do you call it, the Times? Mr. Ihnat, I have not read today’s papers at all. I’ve had to take care of wife with a problem. Excuse me for, I’ve had to take care of a wife with a problem. I would like to say, if I may. I get the Chesterton paper. I get the Times, and I get the Post Tribune, and I read all of them very thoroughly. I want to make a comment. Your respective secretaries, the people in your office, to me, they do an excellent job. They defend you in many ways, but I had that made the comment to me, you can’t believe everything you read in the paper. I don’t believe everything that comes out of people’s mouths, but I have no other source of information except these things that come to me. There’s nothing on television about this County. There’s nothing where you’re seeing anybody face to face. No, I haven’t read today’s paper. Mr. Carmichael, We see a lot of inconsistencies, and sometimes somebody calls in, and I think you said you were going to call in tomorrow. They had claims that Hebron was using CEDIT funds for the 4th of July, wasn’t it? Mr. Bucko, Yes, I was just going to say, well, take it from the horse’s mouth, who was the president and person in charge of the 4th of July fireworks in Hebron. Mr. Ihnat, Yes, sir. Mr. Bucko, And the Town of Hebron did not give CEDIT funds to the 4th of July. Mr. Ihnat, Something needs… Mr. Bucko, So it just goes to proof. Mr. Ihnat, Something needs to be done. Here I am. I’m staying. Mr. Bucko, It’s the free press. I don’t know what we can do in government. Mr. Ihnat, Something needs to be done. Do you want, I would be happy, if I had, I made this comment to one of the people I talked to. I do not have the money to run for public office. I do not have the opportunities to do what I would like to do. But I’ll tell you now, I’m a taxpaying old fart. Forgive me for that. But I just cannot stand, I lived half of my life in Lake County. I have had half of my life here in Porter County. I have been a registered Democrat my entire life, but I have not voted as a Democrat on a straight ticket, ever. If you’re the man, you’re the vote. If you’re the lady, you’re the vote. But if you are the ones that are not doing it, you don’t get the vote, and I’ll talk to everybody that’s around me, and say, don’t vote for that person, don’t go to that store, don’t go to that gas station, don’t buy that product. That’s the only way I can do anything, and that’s the only reason I’m here tonight. Thank you. I’m sorry. Thank you. Mr. Whitten, Any other comments on this? Bruce Lindner, Since the opportunity is literally available, I felt like I might as well say something. Mr. Whitten, Sure. Could you give your name? Mr. Bucko, The camera’s rolling, the mic’s on.
Mr. Lindner, Bruce Lindner, I’m the director of the County Community Services Organization, and basically, I would like to say that I was very favorably pleased to see what the initial offering was for our organization. Some of you may be aware that transportation has not been addressed in Lake and Porter counties, and the RBA and the RDA is trying to get together on some type of agreement to fund some of the organization’s transportation needs. Mr. Carmichael, What was your request this year? Mr. Lindner, My request was $180,000. Mr. Carmichael, What did we give you last year? Mr. Lindner, $140,000 last year. The $180,000 though for the request this year was a deficit still of about $25,000 that we would use from our holding account. Fortunately, we have had a few dollars that came in, in the form of endowments to our organization over the last couple of years. So we’ve had some holding to fall back on. I don’t know what we’d do if we were not-for-profit that did not have those resources available to us. So I’m just, I want to thank you for the number that I initially see up here, and I’m pleased that you… Mr. Carmichael, Where do you get your gas for your vehicles? Mr. Lindner, We use Shell gas stations in Porter County. We have an agreement with them. We have no taxes taken out of there, and they have a discount that they provide to us, which is about as cheap as we can get it anywhere. Mr. Bucko, Of your $40,000 loss, is that across the board from what you’re getting from the agency that supports you or is that just from local government here or?
Mr. Lindner, No, no, the $40,000 is part of our, is our full budget. We get NIRPC funds, and we get state funds, federal funds. Our budget is somewhere in the neighborhood of $440,000, $480,000. So when you throw the 140 or the 180 from the Council on there, we still have a bottom line that’s a negative, a negative 40 from last year. With 180, it was going to be a negative 25. I can almost squeak that out of the holdings and say that it’s there, but when I saw it was addressed in here I was really; I mean I know this is the initial reading, and it’s going to get adjusted at that point in time. But I’m just saying, we have had several that have said, you know, if we lost 40,000 every year, at some point in time, we throw our hands up in the air and say, we can’t afford to do that, and that’s not an option. Mr. Whitten, Thank you very much, Bruce. Mr. Lindner, Thank you. Mrs. Stevenson, Bruce, one question. What is the RDA knocking around to help you? How are they planning on… Mr. Lindner, Unfortunately, they have three proposals that they agreed to fund the RBA. One, was a regional transit system. One, was an information and demand response center that will have some positive effect on us over the next two years by bringing all of the agencies together, and sharing information, and actually have GPS’s on the buses that may allow for on-time pickup for some people when they call in. So that could have a positive net effect on our operation. It may save us a little bit of money if the transportation center saves us some time with, you know, with our dispatch service. And the other one was, a couple of routes, fixed routes through Gary and East Chicago, and trying to some of those together. So there was really none of that 6.5 million dollars that was going to directly come to funding any of the operation of the RBA, which comes into, you know, to cover the transportation drivers or insurance or gas or anything like that. There was no direct operation. Pardon? Mr. Carmichael, It was a one-time thing according to their minutes. Mr. Lindner, Well, it is correct, it’s a one-time thing. The RDA does not want to be in the business of funding the operations of transportation. There are several things that have been out there on the table from taxes to food and beverage taxes to, you know, county things. Mr. Bucko, Yes. Mr. Lindner, I mean you’re probably more aware of those than I am, so I’m not going to belabor that. But I’m just saying where we’re at, with today what I have proposed and what we have capable of putting forth. I just want to thank you. And I’m new to the budgeting process, so this may be totally unrealistic.
Mr. Whitten, There will be a lot more questions, I’m sure.
Mr. Whitten, This is the night when everyone’s happy with the way it goes. Mr. Whitten, Thank you very much. Mr. Murphy, Thank you. Mr. Bucko, Thanks. Mr. Whitten, Anybody else for public comments? Hearing none, I declare this public hearing closed. I guess before we get to our adjournment, there are a couple of things that we probably need to look at. One is, I had Jan or asked Jan to work up some costs for different types of increases for the county employees, which I would like for you to kind of mill around. You know, what we have to spend, and what different types of increases would cost us. A 2% raise, for example, would be $284,115. Moving on up to a $1,500 increase, which would be $679,500, to kind of give you an idea of what we’re looking at. What was our projected increase? Like 900-and? Ms. Noll, 904. Here, Dan. Mr. Whitten, I think it was 903-something. Ms. Noll, 904-something. Mr. Whitten, 904,000. So understanding that as we go through all these budgets, if we want to preserve increase for the employees, that’s how much you’ve got to preserve of that 900-some thousand. Mr. Carmichael, I think another… Mr. Bucko, We need… Mr. Carmichael, Oh, I’m sorry. Mr. Bucko, I was just going to say, do we have some line items in the budget that are clearly line items that are going to have to be met. One of them was always, whatever you do, obviously, with the raises is going to have a negative effect on that balance because of FICA and PERF and all that stuff. But then again, you’ve also got insurance and stuff like that, and that usually takes an annual bump of some kind or another. So you can almost automatically take the big boys, and do your math, and then figure out what you have left out that additional amount. Mr. Poparad, Health insurance is about, around 210. Mr. Bucko, Pardon me? Mr. Poparad, Somebody told me the health insurance was coming in around 210. Mr. Whitten, Yep, about a 210 increase for insurance. Mr. Bucko, 210, 000, so if you pull that right off the top,.. Mr. Whitten, That’s what the commissioners are asking for. Mr. Bucko, That gives you a bench at that level to start with. I did something rather unique over the week, it’ll like take two minutes, not to belabor the… Mr. Whitten, Well can we finish this point, and then… Mr. Bucko, Oh yeah, go ahead. I’m sorry. Mr. Whitten, I don’t want to lose my train of thought, but that’s a good point, Bob. The commissioners are asking 210,000 for increase for the insurance. We’ve got that to deal with as well. So we don’t have a whole lot to play with here. And last year when we went through the budget sessions, we sort of negative, subtracted out as we went through all of these budgets, and I asked you at the beginning of the budget hearings to look at all of the proposed increases, to meet with as many people, and to speak with as many of these elected officials and department heads as you could, and kind of prioritize in your minds the things that you just absolutely wanted to see occur this year. Last year, for example, we were able to do the Health Department in Portage, and we preserved enough money to do that. So I ask that you do this again, but going into this, understand that we don’t have a whole lot of money here to spend. Now, I’m sorry, Mike. Go ahead with what you were going to say.
Mr. Bucko, I went out and looked at some surveys nationwide, and I missed the call that I wanted to get. It would have gave me two results or an additional result for us to consider. One of them was a waste-time factor in, across a wide range of employees in a working day and the percentage of what that factor was. And believe it or not, in that survey, and I’d be happy to share it with everybody, but I did forget to bring it. But the survey indicated that out of a working day, and they did it on a 35-hour work week, that 2.9 hours per day was admittedly wasted by employees. That’s an employee survey. Mrs. Stevenson, Okay, but that’s not exactly fair either, because then you have a lot of favoritism plagued with the elected officials versus the employees. Mr. Bucko, You know what it is. I agree with you 100%. I don’t think it’s our problem, I mean our responsibility to take care of favoritism. I believe it is the elected officials or the 99% it goes down through the elected officials, if it’s their department, and quite honestly, it’s their responsibility to do that. And if we figure--hear me out on this--if it cost $100,000 for a department to do the job, and we have a factor that then points out that 20% of that is not productive money, then 80% of the money would be given to the department, then it is up to the department head’s to determine where that money goes. That’s accountability, in my mind, being accountable for the funds. Mr. Whitten, Yes, but, Mike, you know as well as I do that in the past when there’s been sort of this divvying up by the elected officials, it’s been a nightmare. Mr. Bucko, It can be. Mr. Whitten, Yes, I don’t… Mr. Bucko, It literally can be.
Mr. Whitten, I understand. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t propose to know the workings of day-to-day, eight hours a day in the Recorder’s office or the Clerk’s office or the Sheriff’s Department, that stuff. I don’t sit up here eight hours a day. And you’re probably right, just like in many job sites, there’s probably some degree of waste, but I’m not going to get in the position where I start calculating it. I mean we’ve got some really hardworking people in this county, and every time we’ve asked them to tighten the belt, they tighten the belt. Mr. Bucko, Well. Mr. Whitten, I don’t want to get into all that, sitting down and trying to calculate on some national average what I think maybe might be happening across. I mean we know what’s going on in this county. We know if our clerk’s office is getting it done. We know if the recorder’s office is getting it done, and we know if our assessor’s office is getting it done. And I think if you’ve read the paper recently, we know things that aren’t getting done. So that’s just my opinion. Mr. Bucko, And mine was mine. Mr. Whitten, Any… Mr. Bucko, Jimmy. Mr. Whitten, Go ahead, Jim. I’m sorry.
Mr. Burge, Yes, I just have a couple of points. On the overall budget that we’re looking at here for first reading is based on, roughly, a 3.7% increase to the levy. Based on the information we have, which in effect is a 3.7% increase on homeowners, based on property taxes being the primary foundation where we get all our funds from. The fundamental discussion I think we should have this evening before we get, you know, start picking apart individual budgets, is where that money comes from. Mr. Whitten, Well I mean, what do we raise? What’s our tax levy, about 300,000,000, and about 170,000,000 comes from real estate, homeowners? Is that right? I may be pretty close. Mr. Kopp, You’re probably close. Mr. Whitten, So if we’re talking about a 1%, and I’m not going to vote a 1% income tax. But I mean if that’s… Mr. Burge, No, but I’m saying… Mr. Whitten, If that’s what… Mr. Burge, Get the debate out there. Mr. Whitten, I mean if that’s where you’re going, think about that now. What’s ¼% bring? About 7,000,000? Is that right?
Mr. Carmichael, More than that. Mr. Carmichael, More than 7,000,000. Mr. Bucko, Ten years ago it used to give you almost… Mrs. Stevenson, How much? Mr. Kopp, Closer to 10,000,000. Mr. Whitten, That’s about right. Mr. Burge, I’m not advocating a specific amount, I’m just saying… Mr. Whitten, No, no, I mean… Mr. Burge, We have another option there… Mr. Whitten, Do you think… Mr. Burge, To help out the homeowners. Mr. Whitten, Well. And I understand what you are saying, Jim. I’m just kind of throwing, I’m looking at our number situation, and what it would take to get the real relief that you are talking about. I don’t know. I think that, well, philosophically, I could tell you my thoughts, but I don’t think I’m going to do that tonight. Mr. Bucko, But you know what though? I would say this to us, if we ran the numbers, and found out where it goes so you know, we’re not suspecting, okay, and the only thing that I have a drawback on--and I had a conversation with Bob Poparad about that the other day over the phone--if we freeze our levy, and the five other municipalities and the schools--all the other school corporations--don’t freeze their levy, that will go absolutely unnoticed and unbeneficial. So the law has to, if it’s done, the law would have to freeze all governmental levies across the board, to even consider it for me. It just leaves too much to me. But I think it’s an idea, if you could say that if you froze the levy, and over x-period time you could see the shift, and the income, and the burden is reduced, and the cost to the taxpayer is less, then it’s worth doing the numbers to find it out. But until you plug the holes where the problems might come from, you know, and the levy not being froze across all municipal subdivisions of government, then it doesn’t do us any good. I think that’s a pretty correct statement. We’d never benefit from it. Mr. Murphy, I guess I’m not comfortable, I see the figure $904,000. The State is coming out saying that we’ve got an opportunity to look at reducing somebody’s property taxes by 50%. That’s five-zero. And we’re just going to raise property taxes again this year. We’re going to burden homeowners again, and not even do the homework to find out if it make sense for Porter County. Mr. Poparad, Well I think we’ve had some conversation, me and you have on that. One of the questions, and I’ve got to echo with what Mr. Bucko just said. Nobody’s answered the question. Does it freeze all the levies? Does it freeze the school levy? Mr. Murphy, You’ve got to talk to the school board, Bob. We’re not, we don’t control the schools, you know. Mr. Poparad, That’s right. But if we put an income tax in, and Mike’s right. If we don’t, if all the other levies aren’t frozen, it probably, it’s almost senseless. It’s just we’re falling on the sword… Mr. Whitten, We’ll just… Mr. Murphy, You’re going to reduce somebody’s property taxes 50%, potentially. Mr. Whitten, But it’s not going to unless everybody does. I mean we’re going to strap, yet another income tax on people in this county. Mr. Poparad, I’ve got, and maybe… Mr. Murphy, But we’re strapping on high property taxes every year, and that doesn’t make sense. Mr. Whitten, Okay, but what I’m saying… Mr. Murphy, Shouldn’t we explore the options? Mr. Poparad, Matt, I’ve got a question, and maybe… Mr. Murphy, I don’t know the answer. I’m just saying shouldn’t we explore the options. Mr. Poparad, Let’s just… Mr. Murphy, Shouldn’t we look at the alternatives… Mr. Poparad, Okay, let’s just hypothetically… Mr. Murphy, Before we raise property taxes in Porter County again. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Now answer my question. Mr. Murphy, Okay. Mr. Poparad, We put a 1% income tax in… Mr. Murphy, I don’t know the answer. Mr. Poparad, No, no. I need an answer to the question, and I’m posing it to you guys, because I’m not going to vote for it, but I still want the answer. We put a 1% income in, and I just picked that number out of the air, where does the money go? Mr. Burge, Well 100% to homestead. Mr. Murphy, Homestead credits. Mrs. Stevenson, But part goes to the State. They take… Mr. Poparad, No, no, I mean what levy is reduced? The school levy? Mr. Murphy, My understanding is we reduce… Mr. Poparad, The airport levy? The County levy? Mr. Murphy, It would be 100% property tax replacement credits. Mr. Burge, You’re dealing with the same amount of money, you’re shifting the burden from strictly being a homeowners’ to be more diversified across the… Mr. Poparad, Correct. Mr. Burge, The whole population. Mr. Poparad, You know, the school levy doesn’t go down. Mr. Murphy, We don’t control the schools. Mr. Burge, We may not be able to control all those other levies… Mr. Poparad, Right. Mr. Burge, But we can control ours. Mr. Poparad, Correct. Mr. Burge, We can start with what we can do.
Mr. Whitten, Yes, but ours is a small portion. Mr. Poparad, I agree. Mrs. Stevenson, You look at your property tax bill, and you see how much goes to the schools, so it’s important that the schools put a levy, stop at a certain levy also--freeze theirs. And they’re not willing to, because they just keep getting more people, more kids in their schools, and you can’t… Mr. Murphy, I think here’s the point, Rita, and I don’t mean to interrupt. Is everybody here 100% positive what the ramifications of looking at the alternatives are? I think the answer to that is, no. We don’t know. We haven’t been given a presentation by the State. We haven’t looked at it. We, you know, we just, we’re going to raises taxes, property taxes again. We’re going to stick it to the homeowners again. Mr. Whitten, This is nothing. What we’re talking about is nothing, and we don’t know that we’re going to. We haven’t even started with the budgets. We may be cutting some of these budgets. By the way, Matt, and that’s what I told the newspapers, we may be shaving some of these budgets. Now I don’t know what the schools are going to do. I don’t know what the City is going to do. We held the line last year, and I’m never, I’m not voting for another income tax in this county. Mr. Murphy, But you’re… Mr. Whitten, You’re saying you’re going to attract prospective homeowners into this county straddled with three income taxes. Mr. Murphy, I don’t know, but shouldn’t we look at what the alternatives are, alternative… Mr. Whitten, Maybe the alternative is good government spending. Maybe we look at these budgets, and say, maybe we’ve got to shave some of these. Maybe we can’t give this guy this much, and this guy this much. Maybe we don’t have to raise taxes. Maybe we… Mr. Burge, It’s not raising taxes… Mr. Whitten, Maybe we could… Mr. Murphy, It’s shifting the burden. Mr. Whitten, Yeah, I know. I know, just like the first income tax, we’re shifting the burden. Come on. Mr. Burge, It is. Mr. Whitten, No, it’s not. No, it’s not. Mr. Burge, Yes, it is. Mr. Whitten, No, it’s not. Mr. Murphy, What is the harm… Mr. Whitten, It’s not shifting the burden. It’s another burden. Mr. Murphy, You know… Mr. Whitten, It’s a new burden. Mr. Burge, No, it is not. Mr. Whitten, Yes, it is. Mr. Murphy, Dan, this county… Mr. Burge, Right now, all of the burden is one the back of the homeowner. Mr. Murphy, This county is notorious for not doing its homework. Case in point, we built a jail, and we can’t even fund it the appropriate amount of county employees, jailers, for it. Why don’t we do our homework? What is the big deal with doing our homework, and finding out, is this right for Porter County. I don’t know. Bob doesn’t know. We’re all sitting up here guessing because we don’t know the answer. I think we’re saying, let’s do our homework. Mr. Bucko, We’re not being asked to raise anything now. That’s what I said. If we ran the numbers to find out how it impacted us, we could at least say we ran the numbers, and it is a negative impact, it is a positive impact. Mr. Murphy, And it might not make sense for us. Mr. Bucko, Then you can base your… Mr. Murphy, But we don’t know. Mr. Bucko, Any decision you make on whatever you want to make. It makes sense to find out what the numbers would say. Mrs. Stevenson, The State obviously doesn’t have all the answers either, otherwise, they wouldn’t be in the mess they are.
Mr. Burge, But if we just let it increase the way it’s presented to us here, it’s already another, an additional 3.7%. Mr. Murphy, But you’re fine with every year of just passing on a property tax increase. That’s what I mean, we don’t know the answer. Mr. Whitten, We can shave budgets. We are responsible for our budgets here. We don’t have to pass things. We don’t have to pass this onto the taxpayers. We don’t have to. We don’t have to do that. Mr. Burge, But on first reading, if we don’t establish what the baseline is going to be… Mr. Whitten, Let’s shave some budgets. Let’s not, let’s not raise a penny. Mr. Burge, Then let’s freeze the levy. Mr. Whitten, You want to do that? Mr. Murphy, I’m just not comfortable at this point… Mr. Bucko, Yes, you can. Mr. Murphy, Increasing the levy without doing… Mr. Bucko, There’s nothing you can do except what you just said. Mr. Murphy, The analysis. Mr. Bucko, The County is allowed to bring in a 3.7 increase in the levy, without the State Board of Accounts or the new DLG or whatever you want to call them, raising a stink about it. Mr. Whitten, Let’s make this the toughest budget session that this county has seen in years. Let’s go through every one of these budgets with a jeweler’s eye. We start these meetings at 5:00, let’s stay here til midnight. Mr. Bucko, We used to.
Mr. Burge, Okay. Mr. Whitten, And when people come in front of us, you know what, we’re not going to raise taxes. We’re not going to. We’re going to try something new. We’re not going to raise taxes. We got a crisis here, and we’re going to meet the crisis by cutting these budgets down. Mr. Burge, Let’s… Mr. Carmichael, Alright, Dan, let’s hang on a minute. Let’s face reality. Right now we’re running about $2,000,000 a month in payments, paying out. How much have we got borrowed from the tax anticipation? Mr. Kopp, $8,225,000. Mr. Carmichael, What do we have left? Mr. Kopp, $1,725,000. Mr. Carmichael, Well you’ve got, what? You’ve got three, four months to go yet. Mr. Kopp, I’ve got enough to make it another month. The attorney will be talking to you on the 30th about… Mr. Carmichael, I’m saying, you’ve only got two million, two-million-eight, today? Mr. Kopp, I think there’s less than that. Mr. Carmichael, $2,801,000. Mr. Kopp, In the bank today? Mr. Carmichael, Yes, general fund. Mr. Kopp, I thought it was about two million, but I might be wrong. Mr. Carmichael, Well, you’re only going to go a couple months, no, you’re going to go… Mr. Bucko, Only go a month. Mr. Carmichael, A month. Mr. Kopp, Month, month and a half. By the end of September we are in big trouble. Mr. Carmichael, So you’re going to have to take this up pretty quick, and look at reality. We’ve got that all to pay back by the end of the year. Mr. Burge, In keeping with our discussion then, I would move that we freeze the levy for this 2008 budget cycle to the 2007 budget. Freeze it to the 2007 level. Mr. Burge moved to freeze the levy for the 2008 budget to the 2007 budget level. Mr. Whitten, You know, I don’t disagree with that motion, but I think we need to look at these budgets. Mr. Murphy seconded. Mr. Whitten, I think we’ve got to look at these budgets. I think the responsible thing for us to do is go through each and every one of these budgets, and see if there are things that are crisis things, and things that can be cut. I think it would be irresponsible for us to make a blanket statement like that without looking at what it would impact in this county. Mr. Carmichael, I think it’s premature. Mr. Burge, Well, by doing it though, all you’re doing is, you’re freezing the total pool we have to work with, then you go through each individual budget, then after that, to make it match that level. Mr. Bucko, I think if we were to take what you said, and ask that our goal is to not raise the levy 3.7%, and work at that as a goal, not to do that, that might be realistic. Because it may be unrealistic. I don’t know that. What if we can’t do it? What if there’s a way we can’t make it happen, then we’ve got a motion out there that we can’t live with, and then we have to rescind that, so. Mr. Murphy, How are we going to do that? Mr. Bucko, I think what Bill said, it is rather premature to do it that way. Mr. Whitten, I’m not opposed to the motion necessarily, but I think we need to look at these budgets, and go in this thing responsibly, and look at each and every one of these budgets, and see what can hold the line, what can be cut, and where absolute increases must be made. I think that is what we need to do. Can I get a roll call, yes, give me a roll call vote on the motion. Motion failed on the following roll call vote:
Burge - Yes Carmichael - No Mr. Whitten, Okay, we’ve got a four to three vote on that. We will revisit that motion, but I think we owe the taxpayers at least some of our evenings to figure out that’s what we can do. Mr. Bucko, I’d like to make the motion, and change it to achieve the goal. Mr. Whitten, Well, we can’t…
Mr. Bucko, Sort of make it our goal not to exceed, to reduce it. Mr. Bucko, But to say we can’t is just to… Mr. Whitten, I don’t think we… Mr. Bucko, We don’t need to go through that talk and rhetoric, then, you know… Mr. Whitten, I think that’s… Mr. Bucko, Let’s just make a consensus on it. Mr. Whitten, That’s our, I think that’s our goal. Anybody have a problem with that being our goal? Mr. Bucko, No, not at all. Mr. Whitten, Let’s get serious. Time to adjourn. There being no further discussion, meeting recessed at 5:50 p.m.
SECOND READING Second Readings began on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 at 5:00 p.m., in Room 205 of the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana, Valparaiso, Indiana. Members present were Michael Bucko, Jim Burge, William Carmichael, Matt Murphy, Bob Poparad, Rita Stevenson, and President Dan Whitten. Also present was Attorney Dave Hollenbeck, Auditor Jim Kopp, Lindy Wilson, Sharon Fekete, Sheila Minton and Jan Noll. Mr. Whitten called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Whitten, Okay, we are here tonight to begin our second reading, most of the Courts, it looks like we’ve got Juvenile Detention and Probation. Before we start on that, I would just like to remind everybody, I sent out a memo based on our meeting of first reading where we were gearing up for either a flatline or cuts in the budgets. I sent a memo out to all the elected officials and department heads memorializing that, I guess for lack of a better term, resolution. So here we go. Mr. Hollenbeck, Mr. President, can I raise one procedural matter… Mr. Whitten, Yes. Mr. Hollenbeck, You need to be cognizant of. Mr. Whitten, Certainly. Mr. Hollenbeck, With the change, the law requires us to have ten days between the public hearing and final adoption of your budget. Now we’ve changed the dates around, so the final, the public hearing was last night. You need to keep in mind that however we phrase this, we need to be doing something at least ten days down the road that is perceived as the final adoption of all of the budgets. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Hollenbeck, Keep that in mind. Mr. Whitten, Alright. Mr. Burge, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Whitten, Yes. Mr. Burge, Just one. Point of order from last night. I don’t think we officially took a vote to approve it on first reading. Mr. Carmichael moved to approve First Reading of the 2008 Porter County Budget. Mr. Bucko seconded. Mr. Burge, I think we had the discussion on the… Mr. Whitten, Did we take a vote on first reading? Mr. Murphy, We didn’t. We adjourned. Mr. Bucko, Not the final one. Mr. Carmichael, No. Mr. Burge, Just so it’s in the… Mr. Whitten, We have a motion and a second. Discussion? Roll call. Motion carried on the following roll call vote:
Burge - No Carmichael - Yes Mr. Whitten, Thank you. GENERAL COURTS 01.78 Mr. Whitten, The first thing on our agenda for second reading, General Courts. Now we haven’t actually gotten into, last year we discussed salaries, I asked you guys to look at the salary costs for our county employees, the different possibilities. I assume you’ve had a chance to do that. I don’t know if you want to wait until the end or if you want to try to deal with that up front, some where in the middle? You see what it’s going to cost us to give raises. Mr. Carmichael, Didn’t we get that information? Mr. Whitten, We did. Where’s mine, I gave mine away to the Press. Mr. Bucko, This one here? Mr. Whitten, Yes. We’ve been told that insurance is going to be a $210,000 increase. Mr. Carmichael, Well, do we have to take the 210,000 out of the general fund? Not in my opinion we don’t. Mr. Whitten, Well, if we flatlined everything, I think… Mr. Carmichael, Where have we taken it out of before? Mr. Whitten, We’d be digging somewhere. Where did we take it before? Mr. Carmichael, Sheila might know, I don’t know. Ms. Minton, It comes from all the departments. Mr. Whitten, No, I think in the commissioners. Ms. Minton, The commissioners have the majority of it, and then your individual departments, like your user fees, anybody that has people out of, like the recorder’s perpetuation fund, they all account for whoever, whatever people are in those individual budgets, they account for those individual insurance amounts. Mr. Carmichael, Here you’re putting 200,000 in with the commissioners. Is that… Mr. Whitten, That’s not, is that going to include, I mean that’s what they’re asking for. Mr. Hollenbeck, What happened is, a number of years ago, it was all in the commissioners’ budget. Commissioners objected to that because among other things they felt it artificially inflated their total budget. So then it was decided, as Sheila said, to divide into each department, so now, the auditor’s office has a line item for insurance. In fact, that was one of the things that became problematic last year because the previous auditor didn’t withdraw them from the different budgets. But now each budget for each department has a line item for the health insurance. Mr. Kopp, That’s the mapping fund, not the auditor’s budget. Ms. Minton, Right. Mr. Whitten, So I guess… Mr. Kopp, It’s outside the general fund. Mr. Whitten, What percentage, yes, that’s right. So what percentage of our overall insurance cost comes out of the general fund? What percentage comes, carried by the commissioners? Mr. Kopp, Probably 80, 85%. Mr. Whitten, Alright, so our 210,000 request from the commissioners probably is illustrative of maybe a $250,000 overall hit. Mr. Poparad, No, I think the 210 was inclusive. The insurance doesn’t care about what comes out of here. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Poparad, That was a number given to the commissioners. Mr. Whitten, So is that, are the commissioners asking for a $210,000 increase or are the commissioners telling us that Anton is telling us it’s going to be a $210,000 increase. Mr. Kopp, I heard a different number; 210 is half of what I was told. Mr. Whitten, Well we got to get that right. Mr. Murphy, Yes. Com. Harper told us at breakfast it would be like 400,000. Mr. Kopp, 450. Yes. I don’t know. I heard 450, and you said 210. Mr. Whitten, Maybe they’re talking about their portion. That’s a big difference. Okay, well, we don’t have a lot of money. Mr. Hollenbeck, It was, and this doesn’t help, but it was submitted in the commissioners’ budget the same, flatlined. So that can’t be, but. At 4,183,988, and that’s what is shown for ’07, and that’s what’s being proposed for ’08. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Kopp, We had a couple large claims in ’06, so it’s, in ’07 rather, so it might be okay. Mr. Carmichael, Well, just remember there’s a catastrophic loss program in place. After it reached 90,000 then it’s catastrophic. Mr. Kopp, The reinsured. Mr. Carmichael, Pardon? Mr. Kopp, The reinsured kicks in at 90,000. Mr. Carmichael, That’s right, so you’re only on the hook for 90. Mr. Whitten, Okay, alright. Mr. Carmichael, I think we better revisit that on another day. Mr. Whitten, Yes, I think so. Let’s start with General Courts.
Judge Roger Bradford, I’m going to presume upon those comments that, well, we, the judges met with our two liaisons on two issues. One of which was salaries, I’m not going to go into that, because I think I’ve seen the handwriting on the wall. And as long as nobody else in the County gets more than everybody else does, then our employees will not revolt. If somebody else does, and they don’t this time, I’m going to send them straight to you folks. Anyway, the other issue that we discussed was an increase, not in the dollars for part-time, but an increase in the hourly rate that we could pay part-time employees. Mr. Carmichael, You’ve got to figure the gross amount that you’re going to pay at 15-whatever, how many dollars an hour you’re going to pay. Figure the gross amount so that can be appropriated into your part-time. Judge Bradford, Right. Well, we’ve had in the past years, in General Courts, there’s been $11,786 that’s been there, and I think most of it gets spent every year. We’re not asking for an increase in that number, but we do want authority to pay that out at a higher hourly rate. Mr. Carmichael, But you’re going to run out of money. Judge Bradford, Well, if it’s for the purpose that I’m telling you, it’s a short-term training to replace a full-time employee, rather than, the typical situation we’ve had in the past is the full-time employee retires, they’ve accumulated whatever their allowed to accumulate in vacation pay, so we not only don’t have somebody come in before they leave so we can train them, we have a gap in there before the new person comes in. Mr. Whitten, Well I certainly don’t have a problem with increasing the hourly rate, and I know you really need to try to attract some good qualified applicants. You’re not increasing your line. Judge Bradford, And I’m not so sure it’s just attracting, but it’s having this person soon to retire to give them the opportunity to train the new one. That will save a lot hassle. Mr. Whitten, Perhaps we could just place a moratorium on all retirements; just an idea. Mr. Poparad, Stop loss. Mr. Hollenbeck, You have to stay. Mr. Carmichael, What do you want? Judge Bradford, Up to 15, and we’re not saying that’s what everybody that gets paid out of this part-time is going to get. Mr. Whitten, Your discretion. Judge Bradford, Yes, up to 15 is the way we would like it. Mr. Whitten, Does anybody have a problem with giving him the discretion to go up to $15 an hour for part-time? Mr. Bucko, No. Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the 144 Form for General Courts 01.78, Hourly up to $15 per hour. Mrs. Stevenson seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Whitten, So that’s in there. What’s your pleasure with the rest of this budget? Mr. Carmichael, There’s no other increases, is there? Judge Bradford, I don’t think there’s been any changes from last year. Mr. Carmichael, The bottom line is the same. Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the General Courts 01.78 budget, in the amount of $275,494. Mr. Poparad seconded. Mr. Whitten, Okay, let’s get to the discussion. Mr. Poparad, Judge, educate me, would you please. Judge Bradford, I’ll try. Mr. Whitten, That’s going to take some time. Judge Bradford, Well, I used to be a school teacher. Mr. Whitten, Elementary, I hope. Judge Bradford, I taught fourth grade, if that’s, you know. Mr. Hollenbeck, This is not a good way to start. Mr. Poparad, I can’t believe we’re spending $23,000 on law books. I can’t believe you guys buy books anymore. Isn’t it on the Internet or something like that? Judge Bradford, Interesting, I just got a note from the court administrator to pay that bill, that we’re already out of money, and they want me to get an additional for this year. Mr. Poparad, You still buy books? Judge Bradford, Yes. Our computers aren’t portable. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Judge Bradford, Law books are. We each have a set of the Indiana Statutes that are updated, they just called in the packet parts for this, today, as a matter of fact. We still get only what they call the advance sheets, the soft-bound copies of cases from the Indiana Court of Appeals and Supreme Court. We stopped getting the bound ones because those were, in an effort to cut down, and those are available on computer, for those that know how to get to them. Mr. Poparad, That’s fine. The other question I had, you have 10,000 in your Psychiatric Services, is that in addition to what Porter-Starke supplies to you guys or is this totally separate or how does that work? Judge Bradford, Okay… Mr. Poparad, Is it only Porter-Starke? You use other people, don’t you? Judge Bradford, We sometimes have to, depending on who the individual is. And this is, let’s see, we have an agreement with Porter-Starke that covers some things, and then they charge for others. If we get a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, that’s outside of our agreement, and we pay extra on that. Mr. Poparad, To Porter-Starke? Judge Bradford, If they’re involved in the psychiatric examination; they’re not always. Mr. Whitten, We have a motion and a second. Give me a roll call. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Whitten, Thank you very much. SUPERIOR COURT 1 - JUDGE BRADFORD 01.82 Mr. Whitten, Superior Court 1. Now keep in mind, we’re going to stick to our mandate about not doing any increases. We’ve got to pick up some shortfall already with our insurance increase. Just flatlining these budgets ain’t enough. Superior Court 1. Judge Bradford, I would like to, since I have some part-time money there, make the same the request that I did with the General Courts, as to the, not any additional money, but an increase in the rate that I can pay if I see fit. Mr. Whitten, What’s your pleasure with that request? Mr. Carmichael, What’s the rate again, 15? Judge Bradford, 15. Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the 144 Form for Superior Court 1 - 01.82, Salaries in the amount of $97,371 and Hourly up to $15 per hour. Mrs. Stevenson seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Whitten, What’s your pleasure with the rest of the budget? Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the Superior Court 1 - 01.82 budget, in the amount of $138,594. Mr. Poparad seconded. Mr. Whitten, Discussion? Judge Bradford, The bottom line is the same as last year. I moved a couple hundred dollars from one line to another. But the totals remain the same. Mr. Whitten, Any places in here we can cut? Mr. Bucko, Just an fyi for me. On any of the line items, I guess I have to say it’s too late for the other one, but I would ask you anyway, the big, an indulgence on that. But are any of the line items that you have here, can you recall off the top of your head if there are any of them that you’ve come back for additionals over the past year? Up to date so far? Judge Bradford, Well, the one that I changed, 3720 Software Rental, that’s support for our computer-aided court reporting. They increased the cost by $100. I had to come in for an additional to cover that this year, so I moved $100 from 3110 to cover it next year. Mr. Bucko, That’s the only thing you’ve had to come back for? Judge Bradford, That’s the only additional that I’ve been here for so far this year. Mr. Whitten, Any other questions? Mr. Bucko, Thank you. Mr. Whitten, Any other discussion? Give me a roll call. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Whitten, Court 2. Judge Bradford, Thank you. Mr. Whitten, Have a good evening, Judge. SUPERIOR COURT 2 - JUDGE ALEXA 01.83 Mr. Whitten, Hello, Judge Alexa, how are you? Judge Bill Alexa, Good. Mr. Whitten, You don’t have any part-time, do you? Judge Alexa, No, we use the General Courts whenever we need it. The bottom line is the same as last year. We switched in some categories, and moved things around a little bit to better utilize the cash flow from what we had in the past. Mr. Bucko, So the 148,011 is the same as last year. Judge Alexa, Well, yes, except for, I don’t think the higher salaries were in last year at the time, but it’s the same after you approved those last ones it is. Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the Superior Court 2 - 01.83 budget, in the amount of $148,011. Mr. Poparad seconded. Mr. Whitten, Discussion? Mr. Bucko, Were there any items that you have here, Judge, that you came back for additionals on? Judge Alexa, Yes. That would be Legal, line 3110 on page 3. It was set at last year at 25,000. I’ve asked for it to go to 27 this time. I was in here in May or June because we had some inordinate expenses that we don’t expect to be recurrent, and asked for an additional 25,000, which you folks graciously approved. We still have not received that, because the people downstate won’t release it. Mr. Bucko, What was that line item again? Judge Alexa, It’s 3110 Legal/Pauper. Mr. Bucko, Thank you. Judge Alexa, And we’re still trying to deal with that. A good question, I have three choices. I could mandate the Auditor and the Treasurer to pay it, and then they could say, hey, here’s why we did it. I could mandate those folks downstate, or I could come back here say, do a transfer from one fund to another because it’s the only funds that’s available. And I’ve been trying to consult with the people downstate, and the answer that I keep getting from them is that, it’ll take a higher pay category to make that decision. Mr. Whitten, That figures. Judge Alexa, That’s basically true. So that’s where we are. Mr. Whitten, Any other questions about this budget? These budgets aren’t real heavy. Mr. Hollenbeck, The State has issued the… Mr. Whitten, Give me a roll call vote, please. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Judge Alexa, Thank you very much. Mr. Whitten, Have a good evening, Judge. SUPERIOR COURT 3 - JENT 01.38 Mr. Whitten, Hello, Judge Jent, how are you? Judge Julia Jent, Good evening, Mr. President. I got the email. Mr. Whitten, You also have no part-time. Judge Jent, No, I have no part-time, and the bottom line is the same. I moved some money around. I had some money in my Uniforms and Cleaning, and I bought my robe, so I’m putting it back. I won’t need it again for a few more years. That’s the only thing. Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the Superior Court 3 - 01.38 budget, in the amount of $132,061. Mr. Bucko seconded. Mr. Whitten, Discussion? Mr. Bucko, Julia, did you come back for any additionals yet this year? Judge Jent, Additionals, no. Mr. Bucko, Okay. Judge Jent, I just moved some stuff around. Mr. Whitten, Any other questions or discussion? Let’s get a vote. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Judge Jent, Thank you. SUPERIOR COURT 4 - CHIDESTER 01.37 Mr. Whitten, Superior Court 4. Judge David Chidester, Good evening. Mr. Whitten, Hello, Judge Chidester, how are you? Judge Chidester, Very good. How are you all? Mr. Whitten, Doing great. You also have no part-time, correct? Judge Chidester, Correct. And I think we’re down. Mr. Whitten, Your bottom line is down a little bit. We like that. That’s the spirit. Do we have a motion? Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the Superior Court 4 - 01.37 budget, in the amount of $144,747. Mr. Poparad seconded. Mr. Whitten, Discussion? Mr. Bucko, Other than, did you come back for any additionals this year? Judge Chidester, Not that I know of. Mr. Bucko, Thank you. Mr. Whitten, Any other questions, concerns? Discussion? Give me roll call vote, please. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Judge Chidester, Thank you. Mr. Whitten, See you later. Have a good night, Dave. SUPERIOR COURT 6 - THODE 01.39 Mr. Whitten, Superior Court 6. Good evening, Judge Thode, how are you? Judge Jeffrey Thode, I’m great. How are you? Mr. Whitten, Doing great. No part-time in your budget. Judge Thode, No, there’s not. I think you’ll find the budget fairly the same except I put in for a robe. I haven’t had one ever in 12 years, but it’s not critical. The only other change was Maintenance Agreements. I think they upped us about 500-bucks, I think everything else is the same, fairly consistent. Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the budget for Superior Court 6, in the amount of $107,038.96. Mr. Whitten, We have a motion. Mr. Bucko, There’s an increase in this budget. Mr. Whitten, There is, a couple thousand bucks, give or take. Judge Thode, Yep, but you can knock 600 of that off the robe, and I think the only other change is about 1,800-bucks, and that was for the Maintenance Agreements. If I had one on the fax machine I’d tell you to dump it. That’s all the court reporting stuff and the copy machine. Mr. Whitten, So there’s about a 500-some odd dollar maintenance agreement increase, and you have to have that. Is that correct? Judge Thode, Well I’ve got to have it on the FTR, the court reporter’s, we’re dead without that, and we have had issues with that. The copier, it’s a hundred years old. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Judge Thode, It doesn’t matter to me. I don’t know how to use it. Mr. Whitten, Did we get a second to that motion? Ms. Noll, No. Mr. Poparad, We don’t have a second that I know of. Mr. Whitten, No second, that motion dies for the lack of a second. Motion dies for the lack of a second.
Mr. Whitten, What’s your pleasure with the budget, lady and gentlemen? Can I get a motion to increase it without the robe or do you want to flatline it? Judge Thode, I think the maintenance agreements on both together. Mr. Poparad, Both went up. Judge Thode, Went up, and I don’t… Mr. Poparad, I’ve got to ask a question. Judge Thode, Sure. Mr. Poparad, How much are we spending on a maintenance agreement on a copier that’s worth zero dollars? Judge Thode, 1,200-bucks a year. Mr. Poparad, On a copier that’s worth? Judge Thode, That, probably a lot less than that, and it would… Mr. Poparad, Should we take the $1,200 Maintenance Agreement, and apply it to the purchase of a copier? Judge Thode, That would be great if we ever needed to do that. Mr. Poparad, Office Equipment falls off in value. Probably after five years you just throw it away. Judge Thode, Sure. And that copier has got to be eight or nine years old. Mr. Poparad, Is this a real high-tech copier or is it… Judge Thode, It staples and collates, two sides, you know. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Well… Mr. Bucko, Dan, do you, are you aware or do you know if anything came out of CEDIT funds for capital needs for the or does that go into that… Mr. Carmichael, The CCD fund. Mr. Bucko, Or CCD fund. Mr. Poparad, I think the Commissioners have both the CCD and the use of CEDIT for office equipment. Mr. Whitten, Yes, they did do that once. Mr. Poparad, I mean do we spend the 1,200-bucks to maintain a machine that’s worth 50-bucks. Mr. Bucko, That’s nuts. I mean that’s just, and I understand, he’s better off, you know, maybe we should just flatline this back to where it was, and make a note to address that as we go on. Judge Thode, I mean I can, we can run that til it dies. I’d be happy to do it. Mr. Whitten, Can I get a motion to approve this budget the same as last years? Mr. Bucko moved to approve the Superior Court 6 - 01.39 budget, in the amount of $105,269. Mr. Burge seconded. Mr. Whitten, Discussion?
Mrs. Stevenson, Doesn’t he still need his robe out of this? Judge Thode, No, that’s alright. I’ll be fine. I haven’t asked for one before, and it’s certainly not worth making everybody wait behind me for a robe, so. You know, it’s not that big of a deal. Ms. Noll, Dan. Mr. Whitten, Yes. Ms. Noll, Could we please round that off to 039, and drop that .96. Mr. Whitten, Why would we do that? We’re not approving. Ms. Noll, Because it’s easier for the Auditor’s office. Mr. Whitten, We’re not approving it at that, are we? We’re approving it at 105,269. Mr. Bucko, Correct. Ms. Noll, Okay, sorry. Mr. Whitten, If that’s what we’re doing. We have a motion and second. Any further discussion? Motion carried on the following roll call vote:
Carmichael - No Murphy - Yes Mr. Whitten, I guess you can’t have your robe. Judge Thode, Thank you very much. Mr. Whitten, Have a good evening. Judge Thode, You too. Good luck. Mr. Whitten, Thanks.
Mr. Poparad, Investigate leasing a copy machine. Mr. Poparad, We really don’t want to own copy machines because of this right here. Judge Thode, I don’t have an issue at all. ADULT PROBATION 01.43 Mr. Whitten, Adult Probation. Have a good evening, Judge. Judge Thode, I will in a minute, maybe. Mr. Whitten, Even after the robe debacle, you’re staying. Judge Thode, Sure. Mr. Whitten, Alright. Judge Thode, Hi, Neil, how are you? Neil Hannon, Good. Hi. Mr. Whitten, Okay, Adult Probation. What’s going on with Adult Probation? We’ve got some salary increases, right? Mr. Hannon, Step increases that come out of the 48 Fund, Probation User Fees. Mr. Poparad, Yeah, we need to talk about that. Mr. Whitten, Let’s talk about it. Mr. Poparad, Is there really $600,000 in that fund--round numbers? Ms. Minton, $730,146.20. Mr. Poparad, How much is coming out of that fund then? Mr. Hannon, The amount that you approved for is coming out of that fund annually. Mr. Poparad, Okay, how much is coming in? Mr. Hannon, We had a, we’re just about turning over that account annually. Mr. Poparad, Well if you’re doing that, you wouldn’t have $700,000 sitting there. Mr. Hannon, No, there were gener…, there were other fees that came in. One of them was the pretrial supervision that Judge Chidester was instrumental in getting passed for people on pretrial. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Mr. Hannon, That has given us an increase in that. Mr. Poparad, How much? Mr. Hannon, I don’t have those figures, how much. It went into effect July of ’06. But… Mr. Poparad, If we’re paying these raises, if the intent, then that thing should be about zero. You’re running $700,000. You’re making some money, Neil. Mr. Hannon, We’re not. We’re actually not. Mr. Poparad, Well, you wouldn’t have $700,000 sitting there. Mr. Hannon, We started out with, you know, a sizable amount when this… Mr. Poparad, That’s because I didn’t get to it then. Mr. Whitten, Yeah. Mr. Poparad, I’m getting to it now. Mr. Hannon, No, what I’m saying is, we did not want to operate at a zero balance because then we were right back in to coming into the 43 Fund trying to get it out of the tax dollars. So when the new positions were funded, rather than them coming out of 43, as the law suggests, they all came out of 48, and we’ve continued to do a good job of collecting in order to keep that, you know, from having an arrearage. Mr. Poparad, I agree with that, and I applaud your efforts. What’s that fund run monthly? I mean we’ve got $700,000 sitting here, and I understand the concept, but if… Ms. Minton, He’s bringing in double what he said, but since 2003. Mr. Poparad, Okay, then we need to spend some of it. Mr. Hannon, That’s because of the increase; there were increases in the administrative fees… Mr. Poparad, Okay. Mr. Hannon, And the initial fees that went up, and that’s why we have generated more money. Mr. Poparad, Okay. That’s great. Mr. Hannon, Plus having more people on probation. Mr. Poparad, I think that’s all great. My question to everybody else is, do we want to move one or two bodies out of the general fund into that little thing over there? That little pot of money sitting over there. I’m on this every year, so. Mr. Whitten, Well, we do have to pick up $400,000. Mr. Poparad, Huh? Mr. Whitten, We have to find $400,000 somewhere, so. Mr. Murphy, Health insurance.
Mr. Whitten, Maybe we need to get it, and that’s a good place. Mr. Bucko, I understand what you are saying. But I missed one thing that you did say, that the Auditor’s deputy said was, if there’s 700-some odd dollars as a balance in there, how much has been collected? Because what really counts is how much was collected from let’s say January 1 to current. Mr. Poparad, She’s saying it’s running two to one. Ms. Minton, Well… Mr. Bucko, So there’s 14 or a million-four. Mr. Whitten, Let’s get the actual numbers. Mr. Hannon, In February we had 657,000. In May, 699. So it’s not doubling. Mr. Whitten, It’s increasing slowly, but it’s increasing. Ms. Minton, 382,745.10 is what he’s brought in year-to-date. Mr. Whitten, What he’s brought in. Mr. Hannon, And we spend twice that. Ms. Minton, He had a balance, a beginning balance of 653,333.06 at the beginning of the year. Mr. Whitten, Alright, so we started with 600-some thousand. Here we are in August, and you have 700-some thousand. Okay. Ms. Minton, He has spent $305,932.15, year-to-date. Mr. Whitten, So you’re bringing in a little bit more than you’re spending. Right? Maybe 100,000 more a year, give or take? Is that right? Ms. Minton, So far this year. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Poparad, But he’s… Mr. Hannon, This is the best we’ve had. It doesn’t always work that way.
Mr. Poparad, Well yeah, he’s got a $600,000 cushion to start the year with. Mr. Hannon, Yes. Mr. Whitten, Where are we getting that number, 140-some thousand, Jan? Ms. Noll, That’s what it was in the minutes, and I believe that’s, Sheila, is that on mainframe like that? Ms. Minton, Alright, what are you talking about? Mr. Whitten, What’s line 3964 Toxicology Lab for the ’07 budget. Ms. Minton, In the 48? Ms. Noll, No, in the 43. Ms. Minton, He’s spent all of it this year, 144,308 has been spent. Mr. Whitten, So how much was approved in ‘07? Ms. Minton, According to the computer, $144,308. Mr. Whitten, Where did you get your $180,675? Mr. Hannon, That was what the contract amount was. That’s what I used. I’m not sure where you have the 180, and they submitted three proposals again, and we took the same proposal that they had, Plan B. Mr. Whitten, Did they come in, is this the one that they proposed, and we ending up getting it down a little bit? Ms. Minton, It shows 180… Mr. Whitten, I’m actually talking to Dave. Mr. Hollenbeck, Dan, I have a vague recollection of that, but I don’t specifically remember. Mr. Whitten, Because we’re increasing this budget I want to know. I want to know that. Mr. Hollenbeck, Neil, you said you have three proposals for ’08? Mr. Hannon, For ’08, and this was what I had submitted in here again was similar to last year’s and so it was the mid number we had just like it says on your sheet, the number of urine screens and oral fluid tests and so forth, the same as, it was a medium plan rather that the… Mr. Whitten, You have used all of it. Do you have more owing? I mean are you going to be incurring more expense on that line item if you used it all already. Mr. Hannon, No, we have not used it all. Mr. Whitten, She saying you used it all. Ms. Minton, It’s gone, Neil. Mr. Hannon, Well we have not paid them, we have paid them on a, how many payments have we made? So we paid them for the full year you’re saying then? Ms. Minton, Yes. Mr. Whitten, Okay, so we’re not going to have anymore expense here? Mr. Hannon, No, it goes, we go through January, we don’t owe them anything more. Mr. Whitten, We’ve paid them 144,000. Mr. Poparad, Wait, wait, wait, excuse me. We paid for stuff we haven’t used yet? Mr. Hannon, Yes. Mr. Whitten, I guess it’s called a retainer. But I mean you’re saying… Mr. Poparad, Well that’s a nice deal because… Mr. Whitten, You’re saying that we paid 144,000, and you’re saying we’re done paying. Mr. Hannon, If we’ve made two payments to the Tox Lab. Mr. Whitten, We made two payments, okay, so it looks like last year it was a 144,000 expense. So I don’t know where you are getting the 180 number. Mr. Hannon, Then there must have been something that was taken out and put in the user fees that I don’t have a record of. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Hannon, That I don’t have a record of. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Hannon, And that’s a possibility. But we still have that many oral fluids plus all the testing equipment that’s given to us to be used through the remainder of the calendar year. Mr. Whitten, I understand that, and I’m not even disputing the necessity of it. I’m just saying I want to know if what’s being proposed is an increase to your budget. It sounds like it’s almost $40,000 just on that line item. Mr. Hollenbeck, Neil, what was the contract for this year? Mr. Hannon, For the 2007, it was $180,675. Mr. Hollenbeck, Okay, and Sheila says the records reflect 140-something has been paid, then you’re thinking the other 40,000 must have been paid from user fees? Mr. Hannon, It’s possible. Does it show on Fund 48? Ms. Minton, 15,000 was paid out of user fees. Mr. Hannon, Pardon? Ms. Minton, 15,000 was paid out of user fees. Mr. Hannon, Okay. Mr. Hollenbeck, That gets us to 160. Mr. Whitten, What did we approve in the ’07 budget? Ms. Noll, 144. Mr. Whitten, Okay, that’s what I want to know. We can talk about how, paying all these different things, what did we approve in the ’07 budget, 144? Ms. Noll, 144. Mr. Whitten, Okay. So a proposal of 180,000 is an increase. Am I wrong? Mr. Hannon, When I got my, President Whitten, when I got my information back from the Auditor’s office last fall, that was the amount that was on there that was shown to be approved was 180,675 out of the county general fund. So that’s what I used. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Oh, I understand, I’m not even. This isn’t even aimed at you. I’m just trying to figure out what the heck happened. Mr. Hollenbeck, Alright, here’s what the record shows, Neil. If you look at your user, what you submitted for user fees, it does show $15,000 for Toxicology Lab. So he’s got 160,000 between the two funds, but we’re still $20,000 different from what you think the contract was at 180. Mr. Hannon, And I don’t have any information other than what I’ve presented. Mr. Hollenbeck, If you look at user fees, you see 15,000. And if you look at the general fund, you’ll see the 100 and… Mr. Poparad, What, he took the 15,000 out of user fees and put it back in the general fund. Is that correct? Mr. Hollenbeck, No, they just paid 15,000. Mr. Whitten, Okay, so you’re budgeting zero out of your, in your user fee, you’re going down 15,000. Mr. Poparad, Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Mr. Whitten, And so, okay, alright. So last year we approved, right then, we adopted and approved 144,000 and change… Ms. Noll, Right. Mr. Whitten, Plus 15,000 in user fees. Ms. Noll, Right. Mr. Whitten, Alright. Now, get a mind, because when we go to the user fees I want to keep that in mind. Mr. Poparad, I got to back up. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Poparad, I’m a little bit confused, this Tox Lab, is it unlimited drug screens then? Mr. Hannon, No, it’s a total just like on… Mr. Poparad, Then how can we pay for something in the second half of the year, when the service hasn’t been performed. I’m not even referring to the Tox Lab, I’m just talking about in general. How do we pay for something that’s not been done? Mr. Hannon, We have a total maximum limit of things that we, services that can be provided. Like you have 1,000 reams of paper, and we will use those 1,000 reams of paper. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Mr. Hannon, On your, on the right-hand side, Bob, on the… Mr. Poparad, Yes, I’m reading this here. Mr. Hannon, Okay, that’s a maximum. They actually tell us from the lab that we have 200, in January, or in December, they may say, you have 200 urine screens left. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Do they give us any money back then? Mr. Hannon, No. We use them all. We actually, this is about a third of what we can actually use, but we can’t afford to use anymore testing than this. So this is actually, we’ve always underbid, in other words, or under requested the amount of urines that we wish to be tested. So we use every single one of them. Mr. Poparad, Okay, but they don’t charge us more then? Mr. Hannon, No, we don’t go over it. Mr. Hollenbeck, They stop asking for it. Mr. Hannon, We don’t go over. Mr. Poparad, So wait a minute. So in December if you’re running drug screens, and you got some guy that needs a drug screen, you don’t give him the drug screen? Mr. Hannon, We purposely have a person tracking it internally, because our highest number of offenders are between Thanksgiving and Christmas on drug usage. So we proportionally save so many screens so that we have those available to us during that, you know, high usage of time. As I mentioned before, that is a time from there to New Year’s, and then again when tax season comes, that’s the next high time of use. Mr. Whitten, Okay, but I guess… Mr. Poparad, I’m not done. Mr. Whitten, Well, yeah, but I never got my answer, and I guess I’m still trying to get that, which kind of leads in a little to what you are talking about here. We don’t owe anybody else any money on this, right? We spent 160. Mr. Hollenbeck, He’s saying he’s got a $180,000 contract, and we’ve only got 160,000… Mr. Whitten, Yes, but he’s also saying he’s done paying. Mr. Hollenbeck, Is that, if you paid… Mr. Hannon, If we paid, we’ve only paid the amount the Auditor’s office has, because those, when those are submitted, the bookkeeper pays them, and I don’t know what they total between the two then. You know, I don’t, I hadn’t researched that to bring with me to know. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Hannon, So if it’s saying that we only paid 144 out of the county general, and another 15 out of the user fees, that’s very possible. Mr. Hollenbeck, So you don’t know how much the contract was for? Mr. Hannon, No, I just know the total numbers of urines, and the total numbers of oral fluid tests. Mr. Whitten, Okay, so. Mr. Hollenbeck, So now the question becomes, what’s the, you’ve got three proposals… Mr. Whitten, Yes, what’s the lowest proposal? Mr. Hollenbeck, What’s the proposals? Mr. Poparad, Are these three proposals from three different companies? Or three proposals from the same company? Mr. Hannon, These are three from the same company. Mr. Poparad, We don’t get outside proposals? Mr. Hannon, Well, I haven’t been asked to. Mr. Whitten, Well I guess my other question is, when they do proposals, they’re probably looking at… Mr. Poparad, Past usage. Mr. Whitten, Yeah, past usage, and they’re also probably looking at what you think was past budgeted, right? So if they think that we budgeted $180,000… Mr. Hannon, Like, I can only tell you this, that each urine screen, if you get it done individually is going to be $12 anywhere else in the state. We get it for $8. If you get an oral fluid, it’s going to be $25 without the confirmation, we get it for $8. So we actually can’t, we’re actually getting a better cost effective rate, and the confirmations, many of the places we tried, I’ve actually checked several places again this year, but I didn’t bring in proposals from each of them. Mr. Whitten, Okay, here’s where I’m at on this budget then. We don’t know, we don’t have any proposals from any other potential vendors. We’re not really quite sure what contract we’re paying now. We think, you think we budgeted $180,000; our Auditor says no, we budgeted $144,000 plus 15 out of user fees. She’s saying she’s made the payments. You’re saying she’s made the payments, and we’re done paying. I don’t get it. Mr. Poparad, Neil. Mr. Whitten, I don’t get it. I just don’t.
Mr. Poparad, Neil, do the people, the clients, I guess would be the word, do they pay for their drug screening? Mr. Poparad, Part of the user fees? Mr. Hannon, But they, with the user fees, yes. Mr. Poparad, So, if we say, and I’m just going to use round numbers, because I like round numbers. If we’re going to give you $100,000 in Tox from the general fund, then the rest comes out of user fees or whatever, you know, wherever that would be. Mr. Hollenbeck, Whatever that amount becomes, then you just come back for an additional out of the user fees. Mr. Hannon, Okay, I’m not sure if I’m following that completely. Mr. Poparad, We’ll give you $100,000 from the general fund, the rest comes out of the user fees. Either that or we move a body into the user fees--same net effect. Mr. Hollenbeck, Neil, we’re struggling with how much this total amount is. One of the ways to solve this now is to establish the amount to put in the general fund, whatever that is, and then to the extent that the contract ends up being more than that, you would be expected to take it out of the user fee by coming back in with an additional… Mr. Whitten, Bob, is that a motion? Mr. Poparad, If you want it to be. Mr. Whitten, I would love for it to be. Do you want to make a motion? Well let’s phrase the motion, $100,000 in line item 3964, correct? Mr. Poparad moved to approve in the Adult Probation 01.43 budget, $100,000 in line 3964 Toxicology Lab, with any additional monies needed to be paid from the Adult Probation User Fees 48 Fund. Mr. Murphy seconded. Mr. Murphy, Then when he has an additional is can come out of user fees. Mr. Whitten, Well we can deal with that later. Mr. Hollenbeck, Once we establish what it is, you can come back and ask for an additional out of the user fee for another 60 or 80 or 70 or whatever it is for whatever the contract amount is. Mr. Whitten, Okay, so we have a motion and a second to keep, to make that $100,000, line item 3964. Am I correct, Bob? Mr. Poparad, Yes. Mr. Whitten, Is that your second? Mr. Murphy, Yes. Mr. Poparad, But I need to ask, can we have discussion? Mr. Whitten, Alright, now we’re at discussion. Mr. Poparad, Neil, these 2336 urine/drug screens, and 4672 oral fluid screens, is that the count up to this point or total? Mr. Hannon, That’s how much we get with that amount of money. Mr. Poparad, Okay, because that’s $25 a test, unless my calculator is screwed up.
Mr. Hannon, No, but we actually get confirmations, which is… Mr. Hannon, But that’s for the presumptive test. That’s just for the test to show whether there’s any drugs in it. Then you have to confirm that test, and that’s where there’s an additional cost, if you send it to any independent lab or with them. So they do a bulk amount at a lower rate than we can get them done anywhere else. So that’s, that’s all inclusive. Plus, the professional testimony if we need that, and that’s, you know, whatever toxicologists charge us from port to port. Mr. Whitten, What’s left in line item 7510, or 4510? What’s left in that line item? Ms. Minton, There was nothing in for this year. Mr. Whitten, There should be a zero in there, but you have 7,500 down there. Mr. Hannon, Under 4510? Mr. Whitten, Yes, what was that? Mr. Hannon, I think that something was transferred into one of the other accounts. Right? I’m not sure. Mr. Bucko, What you’re asking is, in 4510 last year, there was a purpose for it, what did you get for it and… Mr. Whitten, It looks like that… Mr. Bucko, It’s something that repetitive, repeated, just because it’s on the line item. Mr. Whitten, And it looks like we had zero in there because we cut it. Mr. Hannon, Yes, what you did is you cut it from the previous year, and you struck it to zero, and made me put something in ITS, and that’s when we went through ITS, and that was for the server that we eventually got. So that’s why that was deleted last year, so we put it back in again for that purpose. Mr. Hollenbeck, You’re saying last year, you mean ’07. Mr. Hannon, For ’07, I’m sorry, yes. Mr. Hollenbeck, Well you’ve got it listed as $7,500 in ’07. Mr. Hannon, Right. Correct. Mr. Hollenbeck, And it should be zero. Mr. Hannon, No, we asked to put it in the same as we had. Mr. Hollenbeck, For ’08? Mr. Hannon, Yes. Mr. Hollenbeck, The first column on your budget is for ’07. Mr. Hannon, Yes. Mr. Hollenbeck, And you’ve got 7,500. That should actually be zero. Mr. Hannon, Okay. Mr. Whitten, Because it’s the approved budget we’re looking for. Mr. Hannon, Okay. Mr. Whitten, But did we approve it at 7,500 then cut it later? Mr. Hollenbeck, No, you cut it at budget. Mr. Whitten, Okay, zero. What’s your pleasure with that line item? Do you want to keep it? Do you want to give him $7,500 in that line item or do you want to keep it at zero? What do you need it for, Neil? Mr. Hannon, Right now I’m not sure, but I know that there was a reason I put it down, but I’m not sure. Mr. Poparad moved to reduce line item 4510 Data Processing Equipment from $7,500 to zero. Mr. Burge seconded. Mr. Bucko, What was it for? Mr. Hannon, We were going to put another PC in the outer office. That’s what it was for. Mr. Bucko, Alright. Mr. Hannon, That’s what it was for, I couldn’t think of it. Mr. Whitten, I got to tell you, we’re coming into these budget hearings armed for cuts. We’re going for bare. If you can function without it, you ain’t gonna have it. I hate to say that. We made a proclamation, we talked the talk last meeting, it’s time for this body to walk the walk. Mrs. Stevenson, I would like to ask about the Toxicology. Mr. Hannon, Okay. Mrs. Stevenson, Do you use the same toxicology lab--it’s Great Lakes, correct? Mr. Hannon, Yes. Mrs. Stevenson, Okay, do you use the same one that the Juvenile…
Mr. Hannon, I have no idea what Juvenile does. Judge Harper, Yes. Mr. Whitten, You just knew we were going to get around to you. Mrs. Stevenson, Who do you use, and are they more reasonable? Judge Harper, We have some portion of a contract with Great Lakes, and we have portion of the money that we spend on another provider. Amy, who is that? Mrs. Stevenson, Is it ATFAST? Judge Harper, AIT. Mrs. Stevenson, When contracts come up, could we look into that? I mean because we have a contract through the whole year, correct? Mr. Whitten, Give me the new bottom line number with the 100,000. Mrs. Stevenson, Is that something we can look into? Mr. Hollenbeck, First of all, the accurate ’07 number… Mr. Bucko, That’s right, he’s got… Mr. Murphy, Yes. Mr. Hollenbeck, Is 887,275. Mr. Poparad, Correct. Mr. Whitten, And what’s the new number at 100,000 in line item 3964 and zero in line item 4510? Mr. Kopp, I’ve got 843,692.
Mr. Whitten, Okay. We have an increase in Maintenance Agreements, and we used; why has that increased? Mr. Whitten, 3610. Mr. Hannon, Yes, that’s the Jalan system, and there’s been a, I need to come back before you yet in the ’07 to pay for the increase that they made, and it’s about the same amount. It’s like a 5% or $325. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Hannon, So what we did here was we put in some additional money for ’08 knowing that they will go up again 3%, hoping that we don’t have to come back before you. That may or may not be an actual amount that we need. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Hannon, But that’s what it is. That was when the, as you’re well aware, the commissioners put all the maintenance agreements into the individual departments’ responsibility. Mr. Bucko, You’ve got a maintenance agreement in 48, it’s 9,500. Mr. Hannon, Yes, that’s for all of our other… Mr. Bucko, Right. Mr. Murphy, It’s a slush fund. Mr. Whitten, Anything else with this budget? Matt? Mr. Bucko, Yes, I wanted to ask if you wanted to take, if you’re looking at Maintenance Agreements, and you’re looking at shifting responsibility that Bob brought up, you’ve got 9,500 in 43, excuse me, 9,500 in 48; and you’ve got, 6,250 in the 01 budget, 43. Would you want to move that obligation to, all into one line item under which ever one you care to under 3610, of either budget, either 48 or 43? Mr. Hannon, Well… Mr. Bucko, So all maintenance agreements… Mr. Whitten, Your suggestion, are you suggesting pulling it out of the general fund budget? Mr. Bucko, Yes, that’s what, since we’re trying to find ways to do it, and we seem to have some flexibility in the 48 budget. Mr. Whitten, So your motion is to take 3610 to zero? Mr. Bucko, Correct.
Mr. Bucko moved to reduce line 3610 Maintenance Agreements from $6,250 to zero in the Adult Probation 01.43 budget, and move the $6,250 to line 3610 Maintenance Agreements in the Adult Probation User Fees 48 budget. Mr. Murphy seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice call vote. Mr. Kopp, 837,442. Mr. Whitten, Okay, any other changes? Mr. Murphy, What’s the total reduction? Mr. Whitten, About $50,000. Mr. Poparad, Does that include any raises? Because all his raises are coming out of the user fees. Mr. Whitten, Are the increases coming out of this fund for raises? Mr. Poparad, Well, we’ve got that whole… Mr. Bucko, No. Mr. Poparad, Are all your raises coming out of… Mr. Whitten, User fees. Mr. Poparad, User fees? Mr. Hollenbeck, Yes. Dan, that’s actually not true, because we have to work off of 887,225, so it’s about… Mr. Whitten, About $50,000. Mr. Hollenbeck, $50,000. Mr. Whitten, That’s what I said. Mr. Hollenbeck, Oh, I’m sorry. Mr. Whitten, That’s okay. Mr. Hollenbeck, I thought you said 100. Mr. Whitten, Yeah, I wish it was 100. You’re reading my mind. Okay, what’s your pleasure with this budget? Mr. Poparad, What was the number? Mr. Whitten, 837,442. Mr. Poparad, Oh, that didn’t change. I’ll make the motion. Mr. Poparad moved to approve the Adult Probation 01.43 budget, in the amount of $837,442. Mr. Bucko seconded, motion carried on the following roll call vote:
Murphy - No Poparad - Yes Mr. Whitten, Thank you. ADULT PROBATION USER FEES 48 Mr. Whitten, Adult Probation User Fees. Okay, let’s take a break for a few minutes. We stand recessed. At this time there was a five-minute break. Meeting reconvened with all members present Mr. Whitten, I talked to our insurance agent, and I also talked to Com. Harper. The $210,000 increase for the insurance is across the board. They are saying that’s what the County is looking at. It’s 210,000, so we’ve got that number lurking out there. We just picked up 50,000. We’re getting there. Okay, User Fees. It looks like you’re getting this, this number is coming up a little bit. You have Office Equipment over $100 for $10,000. What’s that all about? Mr. Hannon, I’m not sure what line item you’re at. Mr. Whitten, Well, the one with $10,000 next to it, 4410. Mr. Hannon, That was again, to lease copiers. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Hannon, We leased copiers. That’s the leased copiers again. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Hannon, We have two of them that are in need of being replaced. Mr. Whitten, So we didn’t replace any in ’07? Mr. Hannon, We replaced one in our office in ’07. We have some in, one in Portage, there’s one downstairs here in the Administration Center that need to be replaced, and we lease those. Mr. Whitten, What do you guys want to do with this budget? Mr. Hannon, The other increase was from having an additional person that you gave us, thankfully, for, as a sex offender probation officer last year. That was part of that increase as well. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Yes, it looks like Salaries are up. Mr. Murphy, A $40,000 increase. Mr. Poparad, The Salaries are up 40. Mr. Hannon, They’re step raises, then a 3% from the State, that the… Mr. Poparad, Yes, could you go into detail on that. I understand the 3%. What was the other one. Mr. Hannon, The step, the step raises, the first five years, the probation officers have an increase based on entry level, and then their years of experience, and then after five years, those people that have a masters degree have a 2% above that, and that’s, the salaries are reflective of those educational requirements. Mr. Poparad, And then on top of that, they get 3%? Mr. Hannon, They get 3% for one year, plus the 2%, and then only 3% the following year. They don’t always get a 5%, if that makes sense. Mr. Whitten, Okay, well, this budget is up a little bit. Mr. Poparad, I’m not done. Mr. Whitten, I’m sure you’re not. Mr. Poparad, Neil, I’ve got to, you know, we went through this last year; we went through this the year before. I guess, and this is not directed at anybody. I guess I’m just a little frustrated with Indianapolis sending us a letter saying you’re going to get a 3% raise. Because I’m sure, is there anybody here that works in this building besides Probation? Do you work here? Deb Morrisroe, I work here. Mr. Poparad, Who do you work for? Ms. Morrisroe, I work in Adult Probation. Mr. Poparad, No, no, no, anybody else? Sheila? Lindy? You, young lady, do you want the State to send a letter to us saying you’re going to get a 3% raise? Lady in the audience, Sure. Mr. Poparad, See, that’s my point. It’s like it’s almost not fair to everybody else who works in the building or this County, that somebody downstate sends us a letter saying you’re getting a 3% raise whether we like you or not, whether, you know, you’re doing a good job, bad job or completely indifferent. It’s just a little frustrating. We’re sitting here scrimping nickels and dimes, and cutting all over the place. We haven’t even started yet, and you get a 3% raise be |
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August 27, 2007 (2008 Budget Meeting)