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PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL PORTER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS Special Joint Meeting July 30, 2007 The Porter County Council and Board of Commissioners convened a special meeting at 5:00 p.m. in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana-Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana. Council members present were Michael Bucko, Jim Burge, William Carmichael, Matthew Murphy, Robert Poparad, Rita Stevenson, and President Dan Whitten. Board of Commissioner members present were Robert Harper and Carole Knoblock. Also present was Attorney David Hollenbeck, Auditor Jim Kopp, and Jan Noll. Mr. Whitten, Let’s call this meeting to order. I’ve asked that this meeting be called after some conversations with the Commissioners, and some of my fellow Council Members, to get an update on what’s going on with the tax bills. We’ve had several joint meetings in the past. We’ve talked about some different timelines, and some different options. We’re getting a lot of calls from local government, constituents, and we’d like to know what’s happening with them. So I’ve asked that the Treasurer, the Auditor, and the Assessor come to kind of update us, and enlighten us on exactly what’s happening or what’s not happening, and what they need, or what they don’t need. So with that, I’m going to open the floor for questions from this body. Where shall we begin? This is sort of the what’s happening meeting. Let’s find out what’s happening. Mr. Auditor, Jim, what’s happening? Mr. Kopp, Well, in relation to the tax bills, I think that we are going to get them out sometime in September or October. We submitted the assessed values to the DLGF. They are apparently taking five to six weeks to process them, and they were submitted on July 20th, we have, that’s really Jim Murphy’s area, but that’s kind of where we are at. We have installation dates for our new software of August 16th and 17th, which we will test until August 31st, and then we will modify it as required, and we expect to be live with the new computer system sometime in the middle of September. Mr. Whitten, Is this the Hamer Software? Mr. Kopp, Yes. But to do this we need the County Assessor’s data, which we asked for last Thursday, and we still don’t have. Mr. Whitten, And this is for the trial run of the software? Mr. Kopp, This is for the trial run on the software. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Kopp, To make sure it works and interfaces. One advantage of getting it is, we’re going to get cut off by Plexis or Manatron, and it would be in a database that we would have access to. Our intent is to run the tax bills on the new system, and do draws or settlements every three or four days as the money comes in. But we’re probably going to be one due date, and that’s again, the Treasurer’s call. In addition, you got a letter that I gave all of you this morning, from the DLGF, which they asked me to please give to you tonight so that you are aware that they’ve extended the deadline to October 1st on a county option income tax. We are in the process of doing an excess levy, which will result in 7 or $800,000 of additional funding for the County based on the shortfall last year. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Kopp, That’s where we are. Mr. Whitten, So… Mr. Kopp, I think Jim could probably add to that. Mr. Whitten, I guess this question is for everybody then. We’re talking about rolling the tax bills out in September or October now. Is that what we are saying? We’re not, there’s not going to be one big tax bill in November? Treasurer Jim Murphy, We’ll send out one bill with two coupons on it, and both installments would be due on or before November the 10th. Mr. Whitten, Okay. So when may the public expect to receive those? Mr. J. Murphy, Very shortly after the Auditor gets the budget orders and the tax rates, and we get them published. We had a preliminary tax billing meeting last week, which we usually have, and last week I think we talked about getting the envelopes for the mailing, get them printed and ready to go. Mr. Poparad, Well are we putting the cart before the horse? I hate to interrupt. Mr. J. Murphy, Well, Bob, we have to be ready… Mr. Poparad, No, no, no, forget all that. I’m referring to this letter from the DLGF concerning, about the PTRC being withheld, budget… Mr. Kopp, We’re not one of those 71 counties. Mr. Poparad, Budget orders. Mr. Bucko, Is this, is this the one I just faxed, got faxed to me today? Mr. Poparad, I don’t know. The one about sales disclosure data for ’06, our compliance, is that… Mr. Kopp, We’re not involved in that. Com. Harper, Dan, can I ask you a question? Mr. Whitten, Go ahead. Com. Harper, And this is probably more for the Assessor. The, they are ordering, they’re taking this data downstate, and they are ordering certain counties to reassess. And it’s my understanding the reason they are doing that is because in the instruction books given the local assessors, they were encouraged on taking sales--current sales--to trend the property, and because they didn’t have any sales of Beta Steel or Wal*Mart or K-Mart or Wiseway, they didn’t raise the commercial property at all, and so when they found that happening in certain areas, they’re ordering the reassessment. Is that your understanding of what’s going on? I think that’s what’s going on. So I want to know, when they look over our data, do you think they are going to do that with our data? I mean, did our assessors increase the value of commercial property, even without sales? John, do you know? John Scott, They raised, a lot of the steel mills were the ones that had the problems, and they had the Midwest/US Steel was under litigation, because of the county, I mean the assessors wanting to have it done by the State, so the State is, so they’re not going to mess with that particular one. But the other ones, they were increased. Com. Harper, Alright, I just wanted… Mr. Scott, As far as I know in Portage. Com. Harper, I just wondered if we are going to run into that problem. Mr. Whitten, Yes, I guess I’ve heard the same thing that, when assessing some of these commercial properties they didn’t have like and kind properties to use as a basis for the trending. How did they do, John? How did they work with like a Wal*Mart or a, you know, a big business like that. Mr. Scott, If they were to do it the way they were supposed to, they were supposed to go into and figure out what the assessed valuations had raised from the year before, say 2, 2½ %, and they were supposed to apply that. Mr. Whitten, Did they do that? Do you know? Mr. Scott, It’s a guessing process, and we didn’t know whether the State would accept that or not, since their rules were you had to have sales. The only thing from that, when you do that, is generally they, if it’s too high, they’ll appeal it right away, so. Com. Harper, Yes, but, John, what I’m hearing is the reason they are ordering reassessment in the counties that they are, maybe I’m wrong, maybe you guys can tell me I’m wrong. I’m hearing the reason they are picking certain counties and ordering reassessment is because the commercial property wasn’t increased, and I’m just wondering when they look over our data, is there any chance it’s going to happen to us? I’m just asking. I don’t know. Mr. Whitten, Mr. Murphy, in your opinion, are we going to be one of those counties that’s ordered to reassess? Mr. J. Murphy, It would only be an opinion, and it would be based on, yes, Bob, you have more information on the reason for having, getting a reassessment shoved down our throat, but I don’t know. They, I do know that we have not been in compliance with DLGF’s requirements that we send information down, and they have been working with our IT Department, and the Auditor’s Office, and the Assessor’s Office over the past, my God, five years now, four years, three years, to get that information down there, and get it complete. If you were a county who was seriously behind in that effort, they would withhold their property tax replacement money for the county only. They would give you money for the rest of the taxing units, but they would penalize the county for not doing that reporting. The letter that Bob was reading is a specimen of a letter that the new commissioner of the DLGF is going to send out to the folks who are in arrears with this information, indicating her zeal for getting this done. You know, this is only a sample, and I’ve passed that along to Jan to send it all to you fellows--the lady and gentlemen--to get, just so you understand she’s playing hardball. Mr. Poparad, Well based on this, I’ve got to ask this question, John. Based on this statewide data as of 5-31, assessor data-personal property, we’ve not sent them anything since ’03; ’05 we sent them something that was non-compliant. Then assessor data-real property again, personal property and real property, all the data is not right, according to this sheet. Mr. Scott, There was a Form 14 that went down there, generally, a lot of times they don’t even send a Form 15, so… Mr. Poparad, Form 15 is okay. Mr. Scott, Already had all that information. Mr. Poparad, Form 15, it says it’s okay. But personal property, assessor data-personal property, assessor data-real property, this goes back to ’03 pay ’04. Are we that far behind or are we, and then there’s auditor data from ’03 pay ’04, has no data. Are we trying, is that, is that going to put a behind the eight-ball eventually with this new commissioner. Is she going to draw, is that person going to draw a line in the sand? Mr. Scott, I have no idea. Mr. Poparad, Right. Mr. Scott, The idea was that we sent down the trending from all the assessors. We sent down the equalization. We had a man that worked for the DLGF, the state tax board… Mr. Poparad, Well according to… Mr. Scott, Who did it, and was certified. Mr. Poparad, Well according to this… Mr. Scott, So I don’t know how you could un-certify this data that was already certified. Mr. Poparad, I don’t know. I’m just saying, this is the Statewide Data--you know--Status. Mr. Scott, Well I’m just telling you that it was certified. I don’t know how to say they okayed something, and now they un-okay it. I don’t know how they accomplish that. Mr. Bucko, According to their records, we’re not. Right? Mr. Poparad, Well I’m just saying, according to… Mr. Bucko, That’s what the report says. Mr. Poparad, And I don’t, you know I’m get a little gray, assessor data-personal property from ’03 pay ’04, they have no data; ’04 pay ’05, they have no data; ‘05/’06, they received it but it’s non-compliant, and ‘06/’07, they have no data. So whatever that means, I don’t know what that means. Mr. Scott, I haven’t seen that. Mr. Poparad, This thing? Everybody’s seen this. Mr. Scott, I have not seen it. Mr. Poparad, We all get this. Mr. Kopp, Let Sharon answer your question, because she… Mr. Poparad, Well wait a minute, I’m not done yet. All I’m saying is, do we run the risk, based on what Mr. Murphy said, that this Cheryl Musgrave is finally going to draw a line in the sand, and say, there’s no more budget orders; there’s no more PTRC; we’re done, until this county, in particular, you know, makes all these little X’s and O’s disappear. Is that what we are faced with, theoretically? Mr. Whitten, Sharon, can you answer this, some of his questions? IT Director Sharon Lippens, Not whether they are going to make that decision or not? Mr. Whitten, Well before that. Mrs. Lippens, With reference to what John’s talking about, the trending and the certification approval of the trending is different than this data that they are asking for. If you notice the second column says: annual adjustment ratio studies approved… Mr. Poparad, Right. Mrs. Lippens, That’s what John’s talking about. It was submitted, it’s been approved. But they want actual, individual data for every single, like tax bill, submitted. And that’s what they are speaking about in this report, that they have not received that individual data for what they are requesting. And the reason it wasn’t never submitted for the auditor, is because it was never requested to be submitted. We first heard about when Mr. Kopp came in office, and we’ve been working with the State every since to get the prior years, as well as, up to current for the auditor data. From the assessors’ data, it would probably have to do with Plexis’ data too, so they would need to work with their vendor on that. That’s the difference. Mr. Scott, All the information on the Form 14, just like Sharon told you, Sharon is saying, all that information on the 14, it’d be the same thing that would be on the 15. The 14, all that information the State has already, they wanted a printout on, on one of the wide sheets of everything that was done. They, they have all the information. We sent all, we send them everything that they have, as far as the personal property is concerned. That’s where they do their taxing. But, now they want a Form 15, and I think we’re complying with that now. Didn’t we have a printout just recently on the 15, which we will be sending to them. Mr. Whitten, I mean all these no datas, are those things that you’re saying, John, that’ll be addressed on the Form 15? Where it says no data… Mr. Scott, That’s, that’s what they are asking for. The Form 15, Form 15 is just another form that mimics the Form 14, which they do have. Mr. Whitten, Is this, someone help me here because I don’t know the forms. I’m not an assessor, I don’t know the forms here. But I just want, I’m wondering, I mean I see the check marks under Form 15 data, but then I see the no data for ’03 pay ’04; ’04 pay ’05; ’05 pay ’06 for personal property. And then I see for real property, ’05 pay ’06, it looks like it was received-compliant, but for ’03 pay ’04, ’04 pay ’05, received-not compliant. So help me, I don’t. Sharon. Mrs. Lippens, They’re two different things. The Form 15 is different from the individual data. The individual data, you’re sending a big file with every single person’s name, address, how much their assessment was, how much their taxes were, all the credits they received, and John, correct me if I’m wrong, the Form 15 is a summary by unit that gives the total AV for personal property for each taxing district... Mr. Scott, Exactly. Mrs. Lippens, But it’s like a one-page form. Mr. Scott, Yeah, but they, they’ve, they’ve been taking the 14’s, as I understand it. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Scott, Taking the 14’s, and they’ve done their taxing stuff that they do downstate to check everything. They’ve used that. Now they want the Form 15, okay, then we’ll have that printout, the Form 15, with every single piece of property that’s one there for every one of the townships that are there, which is huge. Mr. Poparad, So I, I take it based on what you are saying, John, is by August 15th of this year, which is like what, two weeks away, we’re not going to be compliant, which could result in any of the five or the following six actions, if she decides to start playing… Mr. Scott, If Sharon… Mr. Poparad, Hardball. Mr. Scott, If Sharon had printed out, did you print out the form, the Form 15, because the Form 15 is wide sheet paper. We don’t even carry that kind of stuff. It would have to be done on a bigger computer. But the Form 14 is a smaller one, and that, all that data went down there. So it’s, you know, it’s like duplication stuff. They have all the information but they want every little… Mr. Poparad, I don’t disagree… Mr. Scott, The best we can. Mr. Poparad, I don’t disagree that the State is not, you know, crystal clear in their directions. But the State is holding the purse strings, and if this Cheryl Musgrave doesn’t get her data, however format she wants it, on the back of an envelope or bar napkin, I don’t care how she wants it, if she doesn’t get it from this county, August 15th, theoretically, she can do one of six things. Mr. Scott, They can do whatever they want, whatever they want. Mr. Whitten, We had… Mr. Poparad, Well… Mr. Whitten, Wait. Mr. Poparad, John, that’s a foolish-looking comment considering the fact they can actually… Mr. Scott, Well you’re asking me, you’re asking me, Bob, to guess if they are going to do this… Mr. Poparad, Have you even talked to them? Mr. Scott, Or they’re not going to do that. Mr. Poparad, I mean… Mr. Scott, I have a sheet of paper on my, my desk, that just came in today. Okay? Now if that’s the sheet that we have to send down to them, in a Form 15, then that’s what we’ll do. Mr. Poparad, Well I mean what I’m saying is, some of this stuff goes back four years. I mean it’s not like this is new. Mr. Scott, They never asked for it. They used the Form 14, because it had all the data that they needed, I think. Now they want this big, wide spreadsheet. Mr. Whitten, Wait, didn’t we, didn’t we, I mean maybe I’m wrong, and maybe I’m confusing things, but I seem to remember us discussing this. I seem to remember the Assessor’s Office before you, John, coming and saying, this was going to be required, and that it’s going to be a lot of work, and a lot of paperwork, and whose going to pay for it. I seem to remember that going on. Now this is before your time as the assessor, John, so I know they’ve asked for it before. And I think if we did a little digging in the well we could find it in some of our minutes, but I don’t think this is a new thing. Am I wrong, Jim? Mr. J. Murphy, No, that’s correct. They’ve been wanting this information ongoing, and they kept, they first initiated this, this, acquiring this database of all 92 counties, all in the same order. They changed, like they do everything, they’d change it after they’d get started a few times, but where we’re going to run into trouble with that little data is if, if the DLGF works our certified assessed values, if they can’t look at, look back at previous years and justify the growth or lack of growth in certain areas, then we may get in trouble, and then they may withhold PTRC. They may say, you guys need a reassessment. I don’t know what they’ll say. Cheryl Musgrave, who I know casually from the AIC functions, was a county assessor, and she was a county commissioner, so I think we’ll be well served by having a former county employee in that office. But I don’t know what they are going to do, and it all depends on when they start running our numbers on what they run them against, and what they decide. So it’s based… Mr. Bucko, Has everybody, has all of our offices, the auditor, the treasurer, and our assessors received that July 20 information from Ms. Musgrave. You guys all got it? You guys, did everybody get this? The IT Director and everything else? I mean this is, right now, what is today’s date? Mr. Whitten, The 30th. Mr. Bucko, This is ten-days old. Ten days ago, apparently it was sent out, give or take a day to get off somebody’s desk and mail. So, I mean it seems to me that based on the information here, which is 5-31-2007, and I called down there today, and I asked for a current copy of this, as of this current month, and they told me they couldn’t do that, this was a snapshot of what was there in the month of May, and they won’t have the form done until the report is complete and all the information is in. And I said to the lady, Good heavens, this last one that you have posted is December of ’06, you mean to tell me we’re not going to know what we need to have or don’t need to have, whether we’re compliant or we’re not compliant until December of 2007? That seems to me to be a little ridiculous and quite late. I did get the information from the person. All I know is an email address to a Bonita at this Local Government Finance, I’ve emailed her, Mr. President, and asked her to give me a current grouping of information and categories that this county is delinquent on. Now whether I get it, how long it takes, I don’t know. Mr. Whitten, Have things changed, John, since this 5-30? I’m sorry, I interrupted you, but maybe we can get some answers. Have things changed since this 5-30 snapshot he’s talking about? I mean have, would they, would the State still be telling us, no data for these personal properties and non-compliant for these two years of real properties from your perspective? Mr. Scott, As soon as we got it, we started talking about it, and the spreadsheet that they, that they make this here form off, yeah, like that. Mr. Bucko, Yeah. Mr. Scott, We don’t have anything to print it on in our office, that kind of a wide of a sheet, and so, we’re going to see what happens. Mr. Bucko, But, that’s a piece of legal paper. Mr. Poparad, Dan, from 12-20-06 to 5-31, nothing changed. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Poparad, Five months, nothing changed. Mr. Bucko, Well there you are. From the last month to current date then. Mr. Poparad, From 12-20-06 to 5-31-07. Mr. Scott, Like I said, I have a spreadsheet… Mr. Bucko, Nothing’s changed. Mr. Poparad, Not this time. Mr. Scott, A big one, but not that form. It’s not in that form thing, it’s just a big spreadsheet of all the information. Mr. Whitten, Do we not, are you saying we don’t possess in this county the capabilities to print out the form that they are requiring? We don’t have that size? Mr. Scott, We don’t even have the form. Mr. Whitten, What, what’s going on IT? Is that true? I mean do we not have the, we’ve got a printout from December, and a printout from May, and nothing’s changed, and we don’t have the capabilities to do it. Well I mean come on, guys. Mrs. Lippens, We can print any size up to 11 by 17, and if we needed it larger, we could probably get the Surveyor’s Office to print it on blueprint size paper. Mr. Whitten, What don’t you have, John, because I gotta tell ya, I’m a supporter of yours, but you’ve got to help me here. Mr. Scott, I haven’t seen the form. Mr. Bucko, You’ve… Mr. Scott, If… Mr. Bucko, You have never seen this form? You’ve never seen it and… Mr. Scott, This… Mr. Bucko, And been told what information you don’t have. You’ve never seen what information you are not compliant with? This form? Mr. Whitten, We’re just concerned, John, because… Mr. Bucko, I just want to know if… Mr. Whitten, Because we’re getting letters from the State that’s threatening us. You’ve got the same letters. We’re concerned, you know, people are looking to us and saying, you’re the leaders of this county, what’s going on? You know, we’re getting emails from the Governor’s Office saying, why aren’t you having hearings, what’s going on up there; and we just want to know. Have you guys had a conversation about this? Mr. Scott, Yes, I have. Mrs. Lippens, Well all of the assessors’ data would be submitted either by the assessors themselves or by their vendor, because the Plexis vendor that does real estate and the AS/2 vendor that does their personal property, they have their own systems that IT does not, we’re responsible for hardware, but not the software. Mr. Whitten, Yes, but he’s saying he doesn’t possess the hardware to do it. He’s saying he doesn’t possess the hardware. Is that what you are saying? You said the size of it. Mr. Scott, Not in our office, probably in IT or like she says the Surveyor’s Office. Mr. Whitten, Okay, so… Mr. Scott, We’re working, we’re already working on it, it’s not like it’s just laying there dead. We are working on it. Mr. Whitten, I mean, John, I know a lot of this stuff predates your time, but we are concerned. Mr. Scott, I’m concerned too. Mr. Whitten, What do you need? What do you need to get this done? What does your office need right now to get this done, because I’ve got to tell you something. If we get another report that says nothing has changed, I see some of these other counties have changed. I don’t know. So what do you need? I mean is there something your office or your township assessors need? Mr. Poparad, Take a breath. Mr. Whitten, No, I’m not, this is not time for taking a breath, Bob. What’s… Mr. Poparad, What about… Mr. Whitten, What’s, what do you need? Mr. Scott, We’re, we’re working on it right now to get all the information so we can put it on the forms and send it to them. Like I said, I have a spreadsheet on my, on my desk right now, and I just started going through it, the townships, but if that was all the personal property it would be this thick; it’s only this thick, so it may be just a portion. Mr. Poparad, Since you mentioned personal property, John. The question, I’m asking, and I’m just going by this sheet, it says, now this is 12-20, which hasn’t changed, so it’s easy to read: ’03 pay ’04, they have no data. Now is that, and correct me if I’m wrong, we have sent them data, but they don’t like it? They don’t like the format? Or we have not sent them data? Mr. Scott, The format was sent on a 14, and they want it, now they want it on a 14 and a 15. Mr. Poparad, No, no, I’m saying, when did we send them the data from ’03 pay ’04, which is only three years ago, which predates you. But when did that, did that data go down a week ago or two years ago? Mr. Scott, No, it goes down as soon as the personal property is all in. Mr. Poparad, But according to this, there is no data received ’03 pay ’04. Now, does that mean they received it and don’t like the format? Mr. Scott, They received data. Mr. Poparad, Huh? Mr. Scott, They received the data. They didn’t receive it on a 15. They want it to be, sent it on a 14, which they didn’t accept it, now they want it on a 15 so we’re going to have to work to put in on a 15 too. Mr. Whitten, Is it true… Mr. Scott, And the vendor, the vendor was in my office last week, and he said he is working up, to work up a sheet for, for the 14, I mean the 15, so we can put it on there, and we can get all that data on. So it’s not like we’re not working on it. Mr. Poparad, So I mean we have sent data down on ’03 pay ’04 on personal property, but not in the right format. Is that accurate? Mr. Whitten, I mean have we just sent them summations? Mr. Poparad, Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sharon. Mrs. Lippens, If you read the legend at the… Mr. Poparad, Yes, no, educate me. Mrs. Lippens, If it says, if they’ve received it, and it’s not in the format they want, then it’ll say received… Mr. Poparad, Non-compliant. Mrs. Lippens, Non-compliant. Mr. Poparad, So based on… Mrs. Lippens, If they have received it, and haven’t had a chance to look at it yet… Mr. Poparad, Wait, we’re talking three years ago. Mrs. Lippens, Right. So if it says no data, my assumption would be they’ve received nothing. But they also have a category that the county has provided a justification as to why it’s not available. Mr. Poparad, Right, right. Mrs. Lippens, Which is one of the things… Mr. Poparad, NA. Mrs. Lippens, Which is one of the things that I’m working on with the Auditor is that this was never requested before, so now we’re developing to get the data out that the State wants in the format that the State wants, so we’re working with the State, and that’s what they want. They want communication. As long as they know what’s going on, they’re okay. Mr. Whitten, Well are we, I mean are we talking, John, are we talking the difference between sending them specific data about the individual household versus a summation. Is that what we’re talking about here, so they’re… Mr. Scott, No, it individual, individual personal property. Mr. Whitten, I mean is that, have we ever sent them the individual personal property information? Are… Mr. Scott, No, the 14 was always accepted in that data, and pushes for a 15. Mr. Whitten, Does Form 15 lay out, you know, the individual? Mr. Scott, It gets real minute, but the other one is a more broader on, which they accepted. The 15 is like every single perk, every single… Mr. Poparad, Well in defense of John, and this is hard for me to do. Mr. Whitten, Oh, come on. Mr. Poparad, Based on the 12-20-06, they’ve never gotten any data, based on what Sharon said, for three years prior. I mean… Mr. Whitten, Is that true, Sharon? Mr. Poparad, I mean unless I’m reading this wrong, we haven’t sent them squat. Mrs. Lippens, Right. Mr. Poparad, Or squat that they like. Mrs. Lippens, If it says no data, they haven’t received any. Mr. Poparad, And I’m sorry, I’ve got to point this at the Auditor too. I’ve got the same thing for ’03, ’04, ’05, it’s, they have no data, period. We can dress this up any way they want, they’re the ones holding the purse strings, and they’re saying they ain’t got it. Now we all maybe can dance around the fire and think different, but the bottom line is, Mrs. Musgrave, she gets a little burn in her saddle, we guys, we’re in deep. Are we doing anything to correct the problem? Mrs. Lippens, From the auditor’s side, Mr. Kopp brought it to my attention in January. We began working with the State to identify what they wanted; what format they wanted. We had questions back and forth, and we’re getting it finalized in the next couple of days to send ’03 pay ’04. Mr. Poparad, Okay, the… Mrs. Lippens, Once they receive that, if it’s good, then the next… Mr. Poparad, We can shoot the other stuff out. Mrs. Lippens, One, we can send them. Mr. Poparad, Okay, what about… Mrs. Lippens, But prior to that… Mr. Poparad, The personal property from the assessor… Mr. Whitten, Are you working with the assessor the same way? Mrs. Lippens, No. I have been working, well, Mr. Kopp brought it to my attention, and then I’ve been working with the State to get that data submitted. It was never requested before then, and I wasn’t aware that it had been requested before then until Mr. Kopp brought it up. Mr. Whitten, Okay, we’ve addressed the auditor data, but let’s… Mrs. Lippens, Right, the other two would have to be addressed by that particular vendor. Like where you see sales disclosure data, and we are received and compliant, those data files were submitted by the vendor. Mr. Poparad, Well whose dealing with the vendor then on the personal property and the real property? Mrs. Lippens, That would have to be the Assessor’s Office. Mr. Scott, Just, just had it in last Thursday, and he said he’d… Mr. Poparad, No, no, no, I’m not, what I’m saying, John, is, this is three years old. I’m not talking about last week. I’m talking about ’03 pay ’04. Mr. Scott, They never asked for it before, Bob. Can’t you hear. Didn’t ask for it. Mr. Poparad, No, John, I don’t know anything... Mr. Scott, He doesn’t need it, Bob. Mr. Poparad, Other than what I’m told right here. Mr. Scott, He didn’t need it. They got the information on the 14, and that was what they used. Now they want the 15. Mr. Poparad, When did they change the rules of the game? Mr. Scott, Fine, we’ll send out the 15 too. Mr. Poparad, When did they change the rules of the game? Does anybody know? Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t go to assessor class, I should have went to the assessor class, then I would know when they changed the rules. Mr. Whitten, I guess my question is, okay, we’ve identified that there is a three-year running problem, at least with the State receiving our data. When are they going to get it? When is the State, when are we going to get a report that says at least we’ve sent them the data, and then we can move to the next step of it being compliant. Mr. Scott, I’m hoping by the end of this week. Mr. Whitten, Do you need anything from IT to get that done, John? Mr. Scott, I think that the vendor has, has asked her to get into this stuff, and she’s been cooperative that way, so. Mr. Whitten, That’s good. Mr. Scott, They’ll be able to get it, and if he gets out a format that can print the thing, and can print it out by IT. Mr. Whitten, Is that going to be for all the years? Mr. Scott, That’ll be, that’ll be, I don’t know, but I’ll find out tomorrow. Mr. Whitten, Okay, that’s good. Now, let’s go back to the beginning. Jim, you indicated that you were waiting on some information from the Assessor’s Office, to do the trial run on the Hamer software. Is that correct? Mr. Kopp, Yes. Mr. Whitten, What information are you waiting for? Mr. Kopp, We’re waiting for the files of the Assessor so that we can load it on the system, and test the system to make sure it communicates. Mr. Whitten, Okay. When did you request it? Mr. Kopp, Thursday. Mr. Whitten, John, when do you expect your office… Mr. Scott, He doesn’t need it, and Sharon has already told him he didn’t need it. But one of the commissioners in the office he had all the information that he had and needs on the AS/400… Mr. Whitten, Does he… Mr. Scott, Into that. Mr. Whitten, Does he need it? Sharon, does he need it? Mrs. Lippens, Does he need it for what? Does he need it for tax bills, no. Does he need it to test to make sure that the data can pass back and forth and integrate, yes. Mr. Whitten, Okay, so he needs it. Mrs. Lippens, So you have to qualify. Mr. Whitten, Okay, yeah, but let’s, let’s, okay, he says he needs it; John says he doesn’t; that you’ve told him he doesn’t. My question is, does he need it? Mrs. Lippens, The question that was posed to me was, is it needed to produce tax bills. Mr. Whitten, And the answer is, no. Mrs. Lippens, No. Mr. Whitten, But for what he’s asking for now, the answer is, yes. How much work is it to give him the information, John. Mr. Scott, He’s got all the information he needs… Com. Harper, No. Mr. Scott, For the tax bills. Mr. Whitten, Now how much work… Mr. Scott, He needs, everything he needs for the tax bills is on the AS/400. Mr. Bucko, He doesn’t want… Mr. Scott, He doesn’t have to get into the computer system. Com. Harper, We understand, John. Mr. Scott, I, I, I’m fearable of sending this whole batch of information from all the townships in one big lump sum, and have some kind of a corruption happen with it. Com. Harper, Alright. Mr. Scott, It has nothing to do with our taxes. This year’s taxes are this year’s taxes, and he has the information on the AS/400 to use for that without getting me to sign him into that computer system. Now I don’t know what he wants it for. I don’t know why he wants it at this time. I would think he would be more interested in getting the taxes done this time without going in and testing the system. Com. Harper, My understanding, John, is number one, anything in any of these systems are public record, number one. I think they are, the public has a right to them. And if they want to test the system, that’s all they are asking to do is test the system. What is the matter with that. I mean I just don’t see a problem. Mr. Scott, Well, Jim said that he was afraid that Manatron was going to shut us down. I talked to Manatron today, and they are not going to shut us down. They will keep us open as long as we, as long as we need them to be open they’ll be open. Com. Harper, All he’s doing is asking, he’s not asking, all he is doing is asking to run a test-run with the system. Mr. Scott, I don’t want to take a chance on that, that information being corrupted. Com. Harper, Alright. Sharon, are they taking a chance on the information being corrupted? Mrs. Lippens, No, it would just be a matter of, we already sent, when all the vendors were asked to look at the data to see if it could be converted, all the different vendors that came in, they were all given a sampling. We chose one township, and we gave them all the data pertinent to that township, and now this vendor is asking for the whole county so that they can make sure that all the data is consistent. Mr. Scott, To take back… Com. Harper, What would it take to do it? Mr. Scott, To take back to Texas… Mrs. Lippens, Copying the data… Mr. Scott, And work on it, not here. Mrs. Lippens, Onto a CD or a DVD. Com. Harper, So it would take a day? A half a day? Mr. Poparad, Do we back it up, Sharon? Mrs. Lippens, Yeah. Mr. Poparad, Shouldn’t we back it up. I mean… Mr. Bucko, Yes, you back it up before you send it, so you’ve got it. You’re not losing nothing. You’re not corrupting a thing. Mr. Burge, If it’s backed up there’s no… Com. Harper, It’s a public record. Mr. Burge, There’s no risk. Mrs. Lippens, It would just be making a duplication of it onto a CD or DVD. Mr. Bucko, Fill out the proper form, and give him seven days to comply, and… Mr. Whitten, Jim, do you need… Mr. Bucko, File a suits, that’s… Mr. Whitten, Do you need, do you have the information, Jim, or do you not have the information that you are asking for? Mr. Kopp, I do not. Mr. Whitten, Okay. John, he doesn’t have the information. Mrs. Stevenson, Does he know what… Mr. Whitten, We are, excuse me, Rita. Mr. Scott, He’s… Mr. Whitten, Wait a minute. I’m not, now wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. We are getting letter after letter that says this county is lining up for the perfect storm of a tax crisis. I am getting calls from our State Representatives saying, buckle up, it’s gonna be one hell of a ride. And I’ll be damned if I’m going to spend my year trying to figure out why our elected officials cannot communicate. I am just the County Council President, God love me for four more months only. But I’m telling you, you guys have got to cooperate, John. I support you. I know you’ve got your hands full down there, but my God, man, send him the damn information, let’s move onto the next fight. We have got to get control here. We got some big problems coming, and we’re going to have to answer to our constituency for those problems. Their taxes are going to bite them on the ass, and we’re still screwing around with whose got what information. Now let’s get it together, and get the information to each other. Do I’ve got to buy everybody lunch; I’ll buy you all lunch, and exchange information over drinks and dancing. Let’s get it done, because we’re the leaders of this County, and nobody else can fix this but us. The Governor says it’s our fault. Get your stuff together. It’s our job. We gotta do it, John. We gotta do it. I have a lot of respect for you. I think you’re a good assessor, and I think you’re a friend of mine, but you’ve gotta start working with this guy, because they’re gonna blame you. Mr. Scott, If you want that information… Mr. Whitten, Please. Mr. Scott, I’ll give it to him, but it won’t have a damn thing to do with the taxes this year. Mr. Whitten, I don’t care. Com. Harper, We already know that. Mr. Whitten, Just give it to him. Mrs. Stevenson, We know it. Mr. Scott, It won’t have a thing to do with… Mr. Whitten, That’s fine, John. I don’t even dispute it. I don’t even dispute that, I just want to move onto the next crisis, that’s all. Any other questions? Mrs. Stevenson, How soon can he expect it? Mr. Bucko, When could he expect to get it? Mr. Whitten, When might you be able to get that to him, John? Mr. Scott, Uhm… Com. Harper, Sharon can take care of that. Mr. Whitten, Thank you very much. Com. Harper, As long as John says okay, Sharon can take care of it. Mr. Whitten, Thank you, John. I would consider it a personal favor. Mr. Scott, You’ve got it. Mr. Whitten, Thank you. Anything else? Let’s go home. Mr. M. Murphy, Well, we… Mr. Bucko, No, I don’t think we’re done. Mr. M. Murphy, I think we’ve talked about when the tax bills are going out. I think while we’re all here we can maybe talk about the perfect storm you mentioned earlier, and what the taxpayers are looking to open up from the treasurer sometime in September or October, and that is a big increase in the property taxes, and we’ve got all the reasons why it’s going to happen, but I think we need to talk about some steps we can take… Mr. Whitten, Well. Mr. M. Murphy, Going forward to address ways to remedy that. We’ve been given some tools by the Legislature that I think we should talk about and study, and do our homework on. Mr. Whitten, Well we got a letter today from State Representative Soliday, and he indicates that the potential tax increase to our county could be somewhat substantial. Some has to do with the inventory tax elimination. Some has to do with the school tax increase, and there are a number of other things. They’ve given us some options, another income tax, I suppose. He’s talked about a temporary fix by way of turning the rebate, is it, from the gambling, I don’t even know. Mr. Poparad, Oh yeah, the slot machines. Mr. Whitten, Yeah. Mr. Poparad, We’ll all hang our hat on that. Mr. Whitten, Turn that into a credit, which would, could be 11%, I think. But I think that’s a temporary fix. Mr. Poparad, Do they want to talk about why they froze the PTRC downstate, balanced the budget on the State. Do you want to talk about that and start pointing fingers? They froze the PTRC. Vicki, when did they freeze the PTRC, two years ago? Vicki Urbanik, It was in ’03, I think. Mr. Poparad, Huh? Ms. Urbanik, ’03. Mr. Poparad, In ’03 they froze the PTRC, everybody puffs their chest out in Indianapolis, and says, look at us, you know, look at what we did, and we’ve taken the short stick. But they don’t want to talk about that, do they? They just want to hand us another stinking income tax, when all the sales tax and income tax goes to Indianapolis, and doesn’t come back. I mean it, you know, I love everybody in Indianapolis, but I think the Arthur Anderson School of Bookkeeping, they open up a branch office down there right after they closed from Enron, because all they’re doing is shuffling the stinking numbers around. Com. Harper, Dan. Mr. Whitten, Well, what’s your… Mr. Poparad, The PTRC always went up with our budget, roughly one-third. They froze it; looks good downstate; we take it in the shorts. Mr. Whitten, What’s your, what’s your solution, Bob? Com. Harper, Can I say something, Dan? Mr. Whitten, Sure. Com. Harper, Matt, I think what they’re trying to do right now is say, you guys pass another income tax. I think that’s what they are trying to do. Mr. M. Murphy, Could be. Com. Harper, And I want you to think about that for a minute because, you know, you have 92 counties in Indiana, and we talk about streamlining government, and not having a patch quilt of government, and they’ve got a big problem, and there’s several reasons they’ve got. It’s trending, I mean the inventory tax, there’s all kinds of things and problems coming down the pipe. And they have passed these different taxes down there before, local income tax, and you know, it got to the place it was just going to be so much, and then they came and sold it to county councils, and they said it was for economic development, and county council members that believed in that voted for that, and then two years later they said it could be used for anything. They, they double-crossed them. Okay? And if, now they’re trying to put this on the local 92 counties of Indiana. Let me tell you what’s going to happen. Some of them aren’t going to pass anymore income taxes. They are not going to do it. And some of them are going to panic here, and pull the trigger, and pass an income tax. And then they’re going to, and then these guys are going to be back and the ladies going to be back down at the Legislature next year with still an ongoing crisis, because some counties have done it, and some counties haven’t done it, and at some place they are going to have to come to grips with this downstate on a statewide basis. They’re going to have to face up, and come to grips. I think they are going to have to make a shift of some of this money away from property taxes. But to try to get us to be part of that patch quilt, and pull the trigger right now, I think it’s insane what they are doing. They should get in session, and come up with a solution, Democrat and Republican, by the way. I don’t either think it’s a party issue. Mrs. Stevenson, Yes. Mr. Whitten, Yes, it’s not about partisan anymore. Com. Harper, It’s just that they should get together down there, and come up with a solution, and not point the fingers down here anymore, and say, you know, and they’re going to have to shift some of the tax burden. They’re going to have to do it. You know, they passed this circuit breaker, which I was all for. Okay? You know what, and a lot of people said, well that won’t affect Porter County. There’s some homes it’s going to affect this year. And they passed it, and then they went back down this time, and put so many holes in it you could drive a truck through it. Mr. Whitten, Well they certainly exempted on of the biggest budgets that we deal with. Com. Harper, Well the schools, but they did a lot of other exemptions. They have to, I think, Republican and Democrat, they have to do this downstate. You know, they just have to do it. They cannot be pointing around to each 92 different counties, and maybe end up with 92 different results, and maybe you pass a tax this year, and they pass one next year that says it has to be used for something else, because that’s what they, you know, they have to start governing downstate. And I’ll tell you the other thing, the Executive has to take a hold of this assessment. You know, we have some problems in this county, and I know we do, but when you have 70 counties or so not in compliance because they’ve changed the rules so many times. And when they’re passing out a book… Mr. Whitten, That’s right. Com. Harper, That they don’t even explain to the assessors how to assess commercial, you know, so now they’re making them reassess again. The Executive has got to streamline government down there, and get this together. So I’m, when I heard tax, when I saw this letter about taxes, I’m just sorry, I had to say that. Mr. Whitten, Chuck, did you have something? Chuck Williams, I just was going to agree exactly with what Mr. Harper said, but… Mr. Poparad, Shocking. Mr. Williams, But talking to Mr. Soliday, locally, we have to let these people know that. Nobody’s contacting our State Legislators and saying, fix this on the state level. He’s exactly right. Mr. Whitten, No, wait a minute… Mr. Poparad, Okay, yes, but… Mr. Whitten, Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait. Mr. Poparad, No, just like Kuzman two or three years ago wanting to eliminate township government…. Mr. Whitten, Sorry, Chuck. Mr. Poparad, He was 48 hours away from having state troopers put on his ass because he was getting death threats. Whose going to stand up there and have enough guts to say something like that? Mr. Whitten, And I’ll tell you, I tell you I’ve had… Mr. Williams, Try and do with the patchwork. They have to fix by state level. Mr. Whitten, When you say no one is telling them, I’ve got to tell you, I’ve had meetings with three of our State Representatives on numerous occasions, and a couple of our State Senators and said, my God, come on, it, it; you know what they tell me? You know what I get? Well, when the Governor says local government’s gotta get a hold of things, and gotta get a hold of spending, because it’s really local government’s problem, and it’s really local government’s fault; he’s not talking about you guys; he says it blanket, but he’s not really meaning Porter County, so don’t get too excited. You know, that’s what I get told, and they’ve all told me that. Democrat, Republican alike. I don’t care, my State Representative is a Republican, and my State Representative, I meet with him, I talk to him. So that’s the message I’m getting back. So we have been talking to them. If you’re talking about the people, the constituencies telling them, I would agree with you, Chuck. But I’m not so sure that the constituencies knows what’s going on down there. Mr. Williams, That’s why as an elected official, me too, I represent the City of Valparaiso. Mr. Whitten, Sure. Mr. Williams, We pass resolutions, and send it down. The fireworks bill got changed in Indiana because of John Bowker who sits on the City Council in Valpo. He’s the one that started that. Let’s be pro-active here in Porter County and say, guys, fix the mess, and stop having 92 different… Mr. Whitten, Well… Mr. Williams, 92 different tax laws around the state or let us keep all our money, one of the two. Mr. Scott, By the way, Bob is right. I just received a packet from the State taxing board, and 50 pages of changes in that. Com. Knoblock, They’ve been doing this since ’83 when I started, and every two years, like when the politics change, people are different down there, and it’s the State’s fault. They’re trying to pin it on all of our people. Mr. Whitten, I agree with you, Carole. And you know what, I think we should develop a resolution to send downstate. Actually, Com. Harper and myself have talked about a joint resolution about a week ago, putting it in front of the Board. But we canceled that meeting because I had food poisoning. But anyway, enough about me. So I agree with you. We should be. We should be sending down a clear message in writing signed by those who really believe in what we are saying. I guess the meetings with our State Legislators isn’t exactly enough, because we are going to have some explaining to do. Mr. Williams, Well that resolution won’t only affect our Legislature, you all can talk yours, he can talk to a hundred. Mr. Whitten, Absolutely. Mr. Williams, He can talk to everybody. So it’s going to take more that just us saying it’s the State. Us saying it’s the State’s fault or the State saying it’s us, our fault, isn’t going to solve the problem. Mr. Whitten, That’s right. Mr. Williams, At the end of the day, my parents are going to pay 25% more property taxes, and they’re on a fixed income, and that’s not going to help anybody. Mr. Whitten, Well we have had our, I mean in all of the conversations that I’ve had with our representatives and senators, they all do say, let’s not turn this into a them and us discussion. But you know, Chuck, in those terms, it’s already become that. I mean when you open the paper, and state government is saying, local government is out of control, get a handle, and you’re sitting in a county where the last budget session through 90-some budgets, we, before we went to the next budget, we figured to the penny what the increase would be. You know, we have been incredibly frugal and responsible during these last budget sessions. Before my time, I don’t know. But I’m just telling you that this group has been very, very responsible. So when you open the paper, and you read that, it’s difficult not to have a knee-jerk reaction and say, what are you talking about. What are you talking about when you send us a welfare mandated increase for salaries more than we can afford to give our own employees, that’s a tough pill to swallow. And when the school budget, we could fix all these things and the school’s budgets would still be an increase to the taxpayers. I mean that’s a huge budget that we don’t have any control over. It’s tough for us not to say, wait a minute, what are you talking about, income taxes; what are you talking about becoming responsible. And then when I ask that question, they’re response is, well we’re not talking to you; yeah, you’re gonna pay the 20-some percent increase, but we’re not talking to you; don’t get excited. Well I am excited. You may have noticed. Mr. Poparad, Shocking. Mr. Whitten, Yeah, so, you’re right, it would be nice. And the good thing is it hasn’t been, at least up here, a partisan thing. It hasn’t been a, hey, the Republicans are trying to sneak in with some, you know, cutting taxes, or the Democrats are trying to sneak in some, we’ve all been trying fight it. So, I don’t know. It’s something to think about, Matt. You’re absolutely right. We are facing a crisis, as are many counties. Mr. M. Murphy, I’m just saying that if much was accomplished in the first four months of the session, we’re going to try to bank that the Legislature is going to get their act together, and put aside partisan politics, and they’re going to come out with a great plan for all the counties. I just think we’re, I don’t know, I hope that happens. I hope they have an epiphany and really come out with a good way to… Mr. Poparad, A come Jesus meeting. Mr. M. Murphy, Yeah, a come to Jesus meeting. I don’t know. I think we need to do our homework on what it’s going to be with the 2%, how’s that going to impact us next year. Do we know? Do we have an idea? Do we have any round figures? I mean... Com. Harper, No. Mr. M. Murphy, I think we need to do our homework. Mr. Burge, With the numbers we’ve been provided, when we passed the RDA, we had the same income tax we added there to offset to give property relief. Has any of that been factored in those numbers? Mr. Whitten, Well I asked Representative Soliday that today. I said, what you’re telling me about all these increases that you anticipate coming down the pike, have you factored in any excess collected for the EDIT tax we passed for the RDA, and he said, no, there’s not been any discussion about that. Mr. Burge, Worst-case scenario, it would be somewhat less than that. Mr. Poparad, Right, the State will figure that in, and that’ll go backwards. Mr. Whitten, So. Mr. Williams, Mr. Whitten. Mr. Whitten, Yes. Mr. Williams, Into, I’m on the Legislative Committee for the Indiana Association of Cities and Towns, and what nobody wants to say with the reporters in the room is, if you look at the graph in here, almost 60% of your local taxes are the schools. Everyone is afraid to say it. So they do want local government, you know, it’s kind of funny, they say, let’s do away with township government, and it’s less that 3% of your tax bill. Mr. Whitten, Yes, that’s true. That would be, it would be nickels. Mr. Williams, So if you did away with it, you’d save people 3%, and you’d still have to provide the services. Mr. Poparad, Now come on, don’t be picking on Johnny. Mr. Williams, So, you know, I do back up that statement that, that they do lump everyone in local government together, because they’re afraid to say the schools. Mr. Bucko, But in relationship to our property taxes and our budget, our operating budget for this county, this State dictates what we can increase it per year. We have an amount that we have to live by. We’re primarily, our options are how to spread it out. Okay? We’ve been extremely frugal as a county over the last 12, 13 years that I can recall. And even with the income taxes that we have passed, we’ve done that, I think with great care, quite honestly, and here Mr. Harper points out the fact that they’ve changed how the monies are used. I wouldn’t have a problem implementing tax types that offset property taxes on an equal basis. Okay? If you’ve got x-percent here, you put in different kinds of taxes that offsets the burden on property tax. That’s pretty much a tax gut for somebody that’s 65 or older, quite honestly, because they’re on fixed income. But, so long as the State Legislators can then change the rules at the state statute level, I wouldn’t jump. I wouldn’t jump dead center of making these changes, because as Bob said, a few years from now that would change, and we would be hurting, potentially hurting them. Now if we could implement them, and we had the right to change them in only this county, then I would go with that hands down. But not so long as we can’t control the end results, potentially down the road. Mr. Whitten, Alright, all that having been said, I mean I think we have at least an understanding of the crisis that we’re looking at. Mr. Poparad, Can we give a date to this municipalities when they can expect something from the tax bills? I mean the first week of November? I don’t want to say that, I’m just throwing that out. I mean are we going to mail them early? Are we going to mail early, and have them due November 10th or are we going to have them mailed, and due ten days after they are mailed? That’s getting in your area. Mr. J. Murphy, We’re too late in the year. In September, after the middle of September, we’re too late to have two deadlines because… Mr. Poparad, Right, right. Mr. J. Murphy, We couldn’t get collected… Mr. Poparad, Correct. But if we mail September 1st. Mr. J. Murphy, And a lot of people will come in immediately and… Mr. Poparad, But are they going to be due ten days later or November 10th? Mr. J. Murphy, November 10th. Mr. Whitten, They’re going to be due with the one. Mr. J. Murphy, One deadline is one deadline. Mr. Poparad, I agree with that. My point, Jim, is we mail September 1st, are they going to be due ten days later from mailing. Mr. J. Murphy, No, they’ll be due November… Mr. Whitten, November 10th. Mr. Poparad, And we have them due ten days after mailing? Mr. J. Murphy, They’ll come in voluntarily and… Mr. Poparad, No, no, no, I mean is that, that’s allowed? Mr. Kopp, November 10th is what the law says. Mr. Poparad, Then you might as well mail them in the middle of October. Mr. Whitten, So the municipalities can count on a November 10th deadline for the whole year. Mr. J. Murphy, Yes. Mr. Poparad, And distribution will be as quickly as possible? Mr. Burge, Which was our worst-case scenario five months ago when we started these meetings. Mr. Whitten, That’s right. See, that was sort of… Mr. Poparad, We finally got a firm date. July 30th was… Mr. Whitten, Wasn’t that our… Mr. Poparad, The day. Mr. Whitten, Yes, wasn’t that the worst-case scenario when we had our joint meeting in like January. Wasn’t that what we were told was the worst-case, oh, it’ll never be that late. Wow. Mr. Carmichael, Can you pay your taxes early, Jim? Mr. J. Murphy, Yes. As soon as the taxpayers come in, they’re down here before the ink is dried, want to pay, and of course, we’ll take your money, but, and then shortly after that we’ll be able to make advancements to all the taxing units assuming… Mr. Carmichael, You mean I can’t walk in tomorrow and pay my taxes. Mr. J. Murphy, No, we could take a guess at it. Mr. Poparad, Could you pay an estimate? Mr. J. Murphy, We can take your money, but we can’t distribute it, Bill. Mr. Whitten, You can pay your taxes tomorrow, but it won’t be… Mr. Bucko, Will we get two separate coupons? Mr. J. Murphy, Yes. Mr. Bucko, That you could literally pay the first coupon anytime you want. Mr. J. Murphy, Sure. Mr. Bucko, And the second coupon could be paid as a late as the 10th of November. Mr. J. Murphy, Yes. Mr. Whitten, Do a… Mr. Poparad, So we will get some money in. Mr. J. Murphy, They could pay both coupons. Mr. Whitten, Do a lot of people get a coupon that says, due November 10th, but come in September 20th. Mr. J. Murphy, A lot them pay them in April. In other words, we send them out in April, and they’ll pay both installments. Mr. Whitten, See, I’m a bankruptcy lawyer, so most of my clients never pay it. Mr. Poparad, Well that’s something to say at a public meeting. Dan Whitten, W-H-I-T-T-E-N. Mr. Whitten, Bankruptcy lawyer, that’s all I want you to put in there. Okay, before I forget to say, I mean, I received a call from Com. Harper a little while ago, and on the lighter side of things, we’re still trying to work out the numbers, but it looks like the hospital sale could yield us a sum of money more than we had expected originally. Is that correct, Bob? Com. Harper, That’s correct. Mr. Whitten, Do you have any idea? Com. Harper, It could be in the area of five-million. Mr. Whitten, So we could have an additional.. Com. Harper, They’re working out the figures. Mr. Burge, There’s your property tax relief. Mr. Poparad, Now would that be divided now seven ways, ten ways, seven and three. Mr. Whitten, So when will we know of more-firm date, Bob? Com. Harper, Well Gwenn’s meeting with the--our attorney--and we’re going over those figures and checking that out. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Com. Harper, So she’ll tell us when they get that done. Mr. Whitten, Would you let us know? Com. Harper, We will let you know. Mr. Whitten, Thank you, Commissioner. Is there anything else you wish to address this evening? Can we go home now, Matt. Mr. M. Murphy, Motion to adjourn. Mr. Whitten, Let’s go, so moved. There being no further business, meeting adjourned at 6:00 p.m. PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL Michael Bucko Jim Burge William Carmichael Matthew Murphy Robert Poparad Rita Stevenson Dan Whitten Attest: James Kopp, Auditor |
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July 30, 2007