fPORTER COUNTY COUNCIL
2005 BUDGET HEARINGS

The Porter County Council held the Public Hearing and First Readings for the proposed 2005 Porter County Budget, on Monday, August 9, 2004 at 5:30 p.m., in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana - Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Members present were Karen Conover, Carole Knoblock, Robert Poparad, John Ruge, Rita Stevenson, and President William Carmichael. Also present were Auditor Sandra Vuko, Sheila Riley, Karen Owen, and Attorney David Hollenbeck, who was not present at roll call.

PUBLIC HEARING

Mr. Carmichael, I have a sign-up sheet in the back. If there is someone who wishes to speak, would you put your name on that sign-up sheet. The rules of this public hearing meeting are as follows: The rules of conduct for the public hearing: The purpose of this meeting is to receive input for the 2005 county budget. Every person appearing before the Council shall abide by the order and the direction of the president. Those who would like to speak will be allowed a maximum of three minutes, more, if so decided by the County Council. Discourteous, disorderly or contemptuous conduct shall be regarded as a breach of privilege, and will be dealt with at the discretion of the presiding officer.

FIRST READING

Mr. Carmichael, First Reading. Does anybody wish to speak at this time? Is there anybody? You can speak now or you can hold your piece until later, at the end of the meeting. Seeing none. First Reading. County General Fund, $29,055,687. MVH, $37,514,001. LRS, $1,075,000. Highway Cumulative Bridge, $335,000.

Mrs. Vuko, It's $355,000.

Mr. Carmichael, Mine says 335. Correct your agenda to read, $355,000. Does everybody got that? Health Department, $953,368. NIRPC, this is by a population figure; it was figured on our last census. It's $102,759. The CCD Fund, is this an estimate or is this an actual?

Ms. Riley, An estimate. They're all estimates.

Mr. Carmichael, All estimates. Okay. CCD Fund, $1,314,426, that's the Capital Cumulative Development Fund. Reassessment Fund, $323,501.

Mrs. Vuko, Do you want me to read it or do you want to read it?

Mr. Carmichael, Well, it's on my agenda, but if you'd like to read it, go ahead.

Mrs. Vuko, No, that's okay, go ahead.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright. I'll quit pretty soon, and turn it over to somebody else. How's that.

Mrs. Vuko, Okay.

Mr. Carmichael, You don't like my voice?

Mrs. Vuko, No, no, no.

Mr. Carmichael, Courthouse Bond, $1,500,000. Lease Rent Payment, $850,000. Jail Bond, $3,100,000. Aviation, $874,323. Aviation Cumulative Building, $285,000. Welfare Family & Children, $3,275,750. Childrens Psychiatric Treatment, $118,123. Expo, $425,700. Prosecutor Deferral, $397,463. Health Maintenance, $134,289. Antabuse, $75,340. PCADOS, $241,324. Is that a correct figure, Neil? Or what are you looking at? I thought you cut your program back.

Neil Hannon, We still submitted a budget regardless, and we anticipate that it will be outsourced prior to the first of the year, but we don't have a date, so we submitted a budget in that regard.
Mr. Carmichael, So that unspent money will just stay in the budget.

Mr. Hannon, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Pretrial Diversion, $72,899. Home Detention, $102,466. Juvenile Probation User Fees, $87,177. Adult Probation User Fees, $388,069. Is that an actual figure we can count on, Neil?

Mr. Hannon, That's why I submitted it.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. The Tourism Bureau--the CRV Commission as it's called here--$1,000,462. Hazardous Materials, $139,292. Parks Operating, $57,762. Memorial Opera House, $290,467. Prosecutor IV-D Fund, $63,730. Clerk Perpetuation Fund, $43,530. Health Tobacco, $76,513. Jail Federal Housing, $590,581, that's in the 217 Fund. Jail Federal Housing in the 233 Fund, which is state, is $482,384. Probation, the Juvenile User Fees, $18,615. Auditor Mapping, $51,645. County Corrections, $90,000. Local Emergency Planning, $77,350. VIN Checks, $4,000. Home Detention User Fees, $25,990. Bioterrorism in the Health Department is $61,860. Planning/Building Department is $418,417. CEDIT Project 1 is $1,000,000. Project 2 is $300,000. Project 3 is $175,000. Project 4 is $425,000. Project 5 is $20,000. Project 6 is $200,000. Project 7 is $100,000. And Project 8 is $150,000. Does anyone wish to speak at this time? Hearing none, Bob, do you want to open up with the Jail, and take off from there? Take off from there, just give us a bottom line.

Mr. Poparad, We'll start with the Jail, $1,275,421.

Mr. Carmichael, You got it?

Mr. Poparad, No, wait a minute, hold on, $1,883,199. Jail 217, do you want me to just keep going?

Mr. Carmichael, Go ahead.

Mr. Poparad, Jail 217, $590,581. Jail Bond, you already read the Jail Bond, didn't you, Bill?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Juvenile Detention, Do you want me to just keep going?

Mr. Carmichael, Go ahead.

Mr. Poparad, Alright. Juvenile Detention, $953,550. Juvenile Probation, $525,752. Juvenile Probation User Fees, $870,177. Juvenile Probation 230 account, $18,615. Juvenile Center Lease, $741,950. Do you want me to keep going?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Local Emergency Planning, $77,350. Liberty Township, $65,576. Opera House, you already read. Morgan Township, $20,958. NIRPC, you already read. Opportunity Enterprises...

Mrs. Knoblock, I've got 985, 958 or 985?

Mrs. Conover, It's 985.

Mr. Poparad, That's what yours is showing.

Mr. Carmichael, Are they in order; it's not in my order. I'm out of order.

Mr. Poparad, Well I figured that.

Mr. Carmichael, That's good, Bob. I mean this...

Mr. Poparad, I was wondering why you wanted me to start with Jail, it's in the middle of the book, but that's alright.

Mr. Carmichael, Well my Jail is on top.

Mr. Poparad, My Jail is listed by the schedule.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mr. Poparad, Opportunity Enterprises, holy cow, $600,000. Parks, you already read the Parks, Bill?

Mrs. Conover, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, Parks Operating, you already read. PCADOS, you already read. Pine Township, oops, Pine Township, you didn't read, $241,324, holy cow. No, that's PCADOS, I'm sorry.

Mr. Carmichael, I was going to say something is wrong with that figure, Bob.

Mr. Poparad, I know, it just didn't seem right. What are you doing, Nancy; how about $23,000?

Mr. Carmichael, I think she'll take the first figure.

Mr. Poparad, Yeah, she would, $23,399.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Ms. Kolasa, Can we do it over.

Mr. Poparad, The Planning Department, $418,417. Pleasant Township, $26,410. Portage Township, $175,365. Porter-Starke, the total budget is $12,603,879. Porter Township, $78,734. Prosecutor, $658,834. Prosecutor Deferral, $397,462. Prosecutor Pretrial Diversion, $72,899. Prosecutor IV-D, $422,475. Prosecutor IV-D 182, $63,730. Public Defender, $517,442. The Recorder, $142,743. Recorder Perpetuation, $60,839. What a friend, the Sheriff, $3,537,504. Sheriff's Garage, $160,100. Soil & Water.

Mrs. Knoblock, Bob, can we go back to the Sheriff's?

Mr. Poparad, Yes.

Mrs. Knoblock, Or the Police Sheriff. What's the total on that?

Mr. Poparad, On the Sheriff's?

Mrs. Knoblock, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, I've got $3,537,704.

Mrs. Knoblock, Oh, that's right. You said something different.

Mr. Poparad, Yes. Soil & Water, $59,402. Superior Court 1, $124,933. Superior Court 2, $137,700. Superior Court 3, $118,350. Superior Court 4, $132,648. Superior Court 6, $98,558. Surveyor, $181,911. Treasurer, $187,156. Union Township, $71,485. Veterans Service, $19,229. VIN Checks, you already read that, Bill, $4,000?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Voter Registration, $121,910. Washington Township, $23,200. Weights & Measures, $65,800. Westchester Township, $119,936. Do you want me to go back to the beginning where the Jail is?

Mr. Carmichael, If you want to.

Mr. Poparad, Adult Probation, $765,275. Adult Probation User Fees...

Mr. Carmichael, I read it.

Mr. Poparad, You read that. Did you read the Airport?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, The Animal Shelter, $242.085. Antabuse, you read. Assessor, $183,609. Assessor Reassessment, $313,501. The Auditor, $441,867. Auditor's Mapping, $51,645. CCD Fund, you read. Center Township, $137,226. Childrens Psychiatric, you read. Circuit Court, $309,181. Clerk’s Office, $1,169,551. Clerk’s Perpetuation, $43,530. Commissioners, $9,894,516. Commissioners 233, $482,384. Commissioners CEDIT Plans, you've read. Coroner, $174,896. Council, $537,436. County Corrections, $90,000. Courthouse Bond, you read. Drainage Board, $14,921. Election Board, I have nothing. EMA, $57,991. Environmental, you read that one, didn't you?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Expo Center.

Mr. Carmichael, I read that.

Mr. Poparad, The Extension Office, $188,277. Children & Family, you read. General Courts, $219,836. Hazardous Substance, $139,292. Health Department, you read. Health Maintenance, Tobacco. Highway, Home Detention, you read all of these.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, ITS, you never read ITS.

Mr. Carmichael, No.

Mr. Poparad, Our friends from data.

Mr. Carmichael, That's the...

Mr. Poparad, Yes, $502,810.

Mr. Carmichael, That's the computer department.

Mr. Poparad, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Information Technology.

Mr. Poparad, Jackson Township, $30,545. Jail.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. At this time, is there any office holder or person who prepared a budget, have a comment or wishes to speak to the budget process--your thinking. Okay. Sheila, when you ran the total--the grand total--on how much the 4.4% we’re allowed for an increase, what's the total amount, and how much are we over with what's been requested?

Ms. Riley, As far as the 4.4% increase goes, that’s just to help us figure out the levy.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Ms. Riley, That’s not to help us figure how high we can go on the budget. All together, the budget right now, it stands at $1,123,943 over where we were in 2004 for everybody.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mrs. Conover, Could you read that again, please.

Ms. Riley, $1,123,943.

Mr. Carmichael, And a 4.4% increase would allow us how many dollars, 500?

Ms. Riley, Probably about $500,000.

Mr. Carmichael, So we’ve got to cut about 500.

Ms. Riley, You’ve got to cut about $600,000.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, 600.
Ms. Riley, If that’s the way you’re going to go.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, where did you put the reserve money for the juvenile placements with the State of Indiana?

Ms. Riley, I put it in Judge Harper’s budget. The Circuit Court budget.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mr. Poparad, Yes, but that didn’t show up though, did it?

Ms. Riley, No, but it’s in the bottom line.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, that’s what I was wondering, because it didn’t show up in here.

Ms. Riley, It’s not in her budget, but it is in the bottom line that I advertised.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, because we’ve got to look forward to paying something, and now is the time to start setting some money aside for that particular payment.

Mr. Poparad, Well on that note, Bill; Sheila, did we take the $25,000 out of the commissioners’ that was going to go for that?

Ms. Riley, I didn’t, so there’s $25,000 in the commissioners’ budget that’s already appropriated for that, that we can cut out of the commissioners’ budget.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, so you’re setting aside $300,000 against that 1.2 million bill.

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mrs. Conover, Do the budgets include the $1,000 raise for employees?

Ms. Riley, That is in your budget; it is included; $400,000 was included for a $1,000 raise for everybody.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, then it’s an across-the-board $1,000 for each employee. And that amounts to how much, Sheila?

Ms. Riley, In the general fund, $400,000.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. In some of these budgets, there are some office holders who have applied for raises in pay in addition to the $1,000 that we’re contemplating at this point. Those will have to be cut. We’ll have to look at that, and do a study on how we’re paying our office holders in this county. I think Rita is going to do some studying on that. Is that correct, Rita?

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, And compare us with other counties of size and our particular problems. That will have to be cut, and we’ll have to see what we have in carryover come December 31st, if we get a settlement on December 31st out of the, is the Treasurer here, no.

Ms. Riley, No. I adjusted for us to have a carryover balance of 2.2 million dollars into next year. That is what I adjusted for when I was doing the budget.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, and what did we carryover last year?

Ms. Riley, We carried over $3,291,260.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. So your estimate this year is a little lower than that.

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Of course, that will depend a lot on the appeals that are in place at this time, and how many of those appeals are won, how much it cuts back on the collection of taxes. I heard anywhere from $25,000 to $2,000,000, I think Shirley told me on one particular parcel. So that’s an unknown figure at this point.

Mrs. Vuko, Do you want to read my total?

Ms. Riley, Our total in refunds so far this year has been $3,726,783. That is what we have refunded so far, and we are no where near being done.

Mr. Carmichael, How many appeals are outstanding? Does anyone have an estimate on that?

Mrs. LaFever, There’s about 2,500.

Mr. Carmichael, And you started with how many?

Mrs. LaFever, 3,500.

Mr. Carmichael, So you’ve got 1,000 done.

Mrs. LaFever, The townships do.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, so that could be considerable by the time that they're done.

Mrs. LaFever, Oh yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, does anyone from the public wish to speak at this time? Yes, sir.

John Whitcomb, My name is John Whitcomb, I live at 2059 S. SR 2 here in Center Township. I haven’t got much to say. Every year I’ve come to these budget hearings for a good many years now, and I’ve expressed my desire for a tax cut. I’ll repeat that, a tax cut. I haven’t got it. I’m still expecting one, possibly this is the year. Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, we’d all appreciate a tax cut, I’ll clue you in, but at...

Mr. Whitcomb, You people can do it.

Mr. Carmichael, But at the same time, we have to provide the services, and our major budget expenditures are in the area of law enforcement, jail, probation departments. That’s the major portion of our budget. It’s the safety of your home, and the safety of the community, and that’s why Porter County has grown so much. Most people figure it’s a pretty safe community, and a community that educates their children well. You have good school systems throughout Porter County. If you look at your tax return, turn it over to the back, you’ll see that 60%, probably in your case maybe more, I don't know, Center Township, 60% of your taxes go to schools. I don’t think you have any children in school, do you?

Mr. Whitcomb, Not anymore.

Mr. Carmichael, No, me either. But my biggest increase was in the school budget in the taxes that I pay to the school, and they went up $600. Last year it was $750, and this year it only went up $650 or $600. So I got a tax cut, but it will go down also because ISG will be online, and that will help the entire county, especially in Westchester Township, it will help. And up in the north end of the county it will help cut down on the taxes. But if you look at...

Mr. Whitcomb, Possibly, you could, if your group here can finagle a tax cut, I’ll go and I’ll concentrate next year on the school board.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. I don’t have my tax return here at this point. I did carry it for a few days, but it’s a very, very small portion that goes to support county government and all the services that they provide throughout this entire county for all the cities and towns, everybody, and it’s pretty much a bargain. My city tax rate or town tax rate is probably twice what my county tax rate is, so a very small portion goes to all the services that I require or are available to me by this county. We live in a pretty good county.
If you look next door, you begin to see what can really happen when government gets out of control, and right now, at least in my experience, government in Porter County is in control, and taking the necessary steps when it comes time to act, and they do act. They took a drastic cut when Bethlehem Steel went under, and cut the budgets back to 1999, and it hurt everybody. Right now our assessors are very short, and we need some more help in the assessing department in this county, because the State has thrown a monkey wrench into the deal with all that reassessment that was required with the new rules and so forth. So the assessors are behind, and they’ve got a deadline coming up September 8th. The auditor’s office has to have those figures, otherwise we’re going to be late next year in billing taxes. So there’s problems, because we did have to cut, and we did take the bull by the horns, and cut, period. It hurt a lot of departments, but we're still operating.

Mr. Whitcomb, Well, you never heard me say that it would be an easy thing. Now did anybody tell you this was going to be an easy job? Now you’re doing pretty good. I think you’re doing pretty good. But there’s my new rule, make that tax cut.

Mr. Carmichael, Well it was harder than I thought when I ran for election. I didn’t know Bethlehem was going to go bankrupt. It was on the horizon, and we just didn’t get all the signals, otherwise we would have taken action sooner. But it’s going to work out. Next year will be a better year, hopefully. Anyone else wish to have some input? Any council member? Our next meeting will be on Monday evening, September...

Ms. Riley, No.

Mr. Carmichael, I mean August, Sheila, I'm with you now.

Ms. Riley, August 16th at 5:00.

Mr. Carmichael, And that will be second reading.

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, We will have the necessary cuts in the budgets, in place at that time, with what we've talked about here tonight.

Ms. Riley, Will you? I don't know.

Mr. Hollenbeck, A statement or a question here on it.

Mr. Carmichael, Those salary increases they will have to be cut out over and above the $1,000.

Ms. Riley, I gave everybody a list of everything that's different in the budgets. You guys have the series comparison.

Mr. Carmichael, It’s here in the packet.

Ms. Riley, It should be in your packet. If not, call me, I will get you another copy.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, you'll want to study that and make the necessary recommendations at our next regular meeting.

Mrs. Conover, Do we want to make a motion to approve the budgets at first reading then?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Yes, you have to do a first reading approval tonight.

Mr. Carmichael, I will entertain that motion at this time.

Mrs. Conover moved to approve First Reading for all submitted budgets. Mr. Ruge seconded, motion carried on a roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Motion carries. Is there any other reports? David, did you have anything to report on?

Mr. Hollenbeck, I don’t have anything other than I’ve communicated with you pursuant to your instructions. I’ve followed through on the CSX conditions you placed on the appropriation of that money. We did get a letter, I think you should have gotten it from the Department of Transportation indicating they have no intentions to close that crossing. I have secured assurances from the attorney for the town of North Judson that at that point, your conditions were the same as LaPorte County’s, and he has assured me that he will be preparing an interlocal agreement that will have those conditions in it.

Mr. Carmichael, He did send me a notice of that today, and I took it into the commissioners’ office, and turned it over to the secretary in the commissioners’ office--the administrative assistant.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Okay.

Mr. Carmichael, Karen.

Mrs. Conover, I just wanted to mention that we didn’t have a lot of public hearing on the Park’s budget. They put together a nice packet of information with many letters and information on all the programs, and how many children they have served. So please, if you have ten minutes, go through it.

Mr. Carmichael, Would you want to do that?

Mrs. Conover, Ed.

Mr. Melendez, Thank you. We had talked earlier with our liaison and our park board members to put a packet together for you folks, so you can review it during the week. The center pages, which I have addressed to you and the county commissioners, give three deficiencies that the Parks Department has. That’s dealing with manpower, maintenance and equipment. I’d like to have you folks review those; at a point in time, we will have more information given to you when we sit down with you.
We also have in that booklet the locations that the Porter County Parks have under their jurisdiction, at least in the last five years that I have come aboard. Also too, we have our equipment concerns; the ages; the mileage; and what our problems with it and our foreseen cost in what we are looking at on the equipment.
The other ones in the back section on the right-hand size of your little yellow booklets are the types of events; what we work with in the community, as well as when you first open the book on the left-hand side, all the educational programs that we do in our indoor and outdoor programs, the boy scouts, girl scouts, and other church groups that are in there. It has our indoor program, and our outdoor program, as well as letters from parents who utilize our programs.
I’d like to have you folks take the week, and review what we have here. This is a situation that has finally come to the point that we have concerns that we need to take a closer look at. We have built a strong foundation with your support. You folks have been very good to us--to the Porter County Parks--at least as long as I have been here, and in looking back through the records, a lot longer. Please take the consideration of the manpower that we are looking at with our educational programs. Our maintenance concern, because we are looking to expand, and are still trying to catch up with the facilities that we have been given, as well as our vehicle concerns. These are things that I know we’ll be discussing in the next week or so.
If you have any questions, please call me. If not, I will call you before the weekend to see if we can hopefully get some answers. Folks, I thank you for your support. I know the Park Board, the Park staff does, as well as our foundation. But I think when you see the numbers that are in there, I think the people of Porter County thank you. They do utilize the Porter County parks. Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, We appreciate the job you are doing.

Mr. Melendez, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, The park is excellent. Sharon.

Sharon Lippens, I apologize, I was just at the dentist. I don't know if the council members have had a chance to go over our packet that I left in the council office Friday for everybody. There was one for everybody, including Jan.

Mr. Carmichael, I didn’t see it.

Mrs. Lippens, I would, I have also asked all the department heads that were willing to be able to come tonight to support my request for additional employees. I understand the County is concerned about adding employees, and the financial situation of the County. But we are really in dire straits in our office in trying to serve the entire county. We’ve lost three people in the last couple of years, but the requests and the approvals for equipment have continued, and the requests have increased. We are to the point where if we don't get some help, we are going to be in a very dire situation.
If you were to look over this packet, I think it very clearly outlines a lot of the questions that you may have concerning the types of calls that we take, and how we get them resolved, and the amount of time that it takes with the given staff that we have. I think it really gives a compelling outlook at why we need more people. It also gives options for outsourcing, bringing consultants in, things like that, and comparing those costs to having employees inside.
So I would encourage you to read this, and if you have any other questions, please let me know. But I did ask all of the department heads who we service to come and voice their support for, that when we do come to their office, that they get very good service. They are very satisfied with the job that we do, but they are unsatisfied with the amount of time that it takes us to get there, because we have so many things that we just can't.

Mrs. Conover, Two questions, Sharon. Number one, are you putting those requests in your budget?

Mrs. Lippens, Yes, they are in the budget.

Mrs. Conover, Okay, and number two: alright, I’m finally on the list, and it’s my turn--my department’s turn--to get computers and I need five of them. We’ve been through all that, and that’s been a lag-time. Now you have the computers boxed up in your department, how long will it take you to then install them?

Mrs. Lippens, The ones we have right now?

Mrs. Conover, My five computers.

Mrs. Lippens, It depends on where you are on the list. Like we just ordered 96 computers. If we don’t get anymore help, it will probably be until at least this time next year before they are all installed.

Mrs. Conover, So if I finally receive my computers today, I might not have it online for my staff until August of 2005.

Mrs. Lippens, It could be, because we never, we have one person, if you were to look this over, we have one person that takes care of over 400 computers; 70 different departments; 15 different locations throughout the County, one person. Business standard is anywhere between 60 and 75 PC's to one technician. So as you can see we’re very, very far out from that.

Mr. Poparad, Should you look at having more techs and less programmers--for lack of a better word--and outsource the programming part of it?

Mrs. Lippens, We could do that, but the cost of programming is much higher than the cost of techs. The average tech salary for a free-lance person is around $50 an hour. If you call a company, like say, Chester’s or Bucher Technologies or one of these types of companies, they’re between $85 and $90 per hour. That’s during business hours, and they’re not dedicated to you. They are obviously, you are one of their many customers. The programmers, I have looked at outsourcing programming, and some of those run into the hundreds of dollars per hour, because of the skills they have to have.

Mr. Poparad, Right, but once the program is written, there’s not a need to have a programmer.

Mrs. Lippens, It’s constantly changing. The State is constantly changing forms; constantly changing rules; changing methodologies. It is an ever-changing thing, so its not that you write it and it’s done. Also, as new technologies come into play, obviously, the Internet, things like that, you know, we want to be able to take advantage of those to maybe make people’s jobs easier or make information more available to the public. We have tried to do that to the best of our ability with the limited staff that we have.

Mr. Carmichael, These two people you are talking about are computer support specialists.

Mrs. Lippens, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, And they are included in your budget this year, your request.

Mrs. Lippens, Yes, they are included in my budget.
Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Alright.

Mrs. Lippens, One of the other things that I’ve included in my budget that I think I outlined when I turned the budget in with the cover letter is that I am also requesting consideration for re-instituting anti-virus protection. We currently have no anti-virus protection. I have put that back in my budget, and request that be approved, because we probably spend countless hours dealing with viruses. It’s a never-ending problem, and we’re never going to be able to stop people from doing it. We just have to try to and stop them the best we can before they do any damage. Having virus protection isn’t going to eliminate it, but it’s going to help a lot.

Mr. Carmichael, Is that the new Microsoft? What program are you using?

Mrs. Lippens, Right now we’re using McAffee, but actually we're not using McAffee, because our subscription has expired, and we did not have monies in our budget this year to renew it. So we have none right now.

Mr. Carmichael, Well there’s a new firewall, it’s supposed to come out pretty quick from Microsoft.

Mrs. Lippens, Well the two major virus companies that put virus protection out is Norton and, or Semantics in Company, and McAffee.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, and what’s the total cost?

Mrs. Lippens, The quote I got was $8,100 per year.

Mr. Carmichael, It’s 81...

Mrs. Lippens, It was $8,100.

Mrs. Conover, To service how many computers?

Mrs. Lippens, 501.

Mr. Poparad, The 90 computers you just bought, was that out of your budget or the commissioners’?

Mrs. Lippens, No, that was out; well, part of it was out of the commissioners’ CCD, is part of a five-year life cycle plan, and part of it was out of individual department’s budgets who had money approved, such as the prosecutor, the child support office, the assessor offices. I can’t remember who else. The recorder’s office. There were several offices that had money in their own budget, so we bought them as a bulk so we could get the best price discount that we could, and we were able to leverage a very, very good price for them.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh, you’re without it now?

Mrs. Lippens, I’m sorry.

Mr. Carmichael, You’re without the program--the anti-virus--now?

Mrs. Lippens, Yes, we are, and we are spending...

Mr. Carmichael, You can’t afford to be without it.

Mrs. Lippens, A lot of time fighting it. We’ve tried to institute some technologies to try and help, but it’s, it’s just a band-aid.

Mr. Carmichael, I suspect you ought to have a request in here before the next regular council meeting to get that problem taken care of. That’s a pretty expensive operation. Right now I’m in the process of buying a new computer, because nobody’s services Windows 95 anymore, and I’m done; my wife is very upset. But the new XP program is supposed to have a tremendous virus protection. No?

Mrs. Lippens, I disagree.

Mr. Poparad, Your budget this year is $451,000.
Mrs. Lippens, That is correct.

Mr. Poparad, And you didn’t have $8,100 for anti-virus protection?

Mrs. Lippens, No. Every item that’s in here...

Mr. Poparad, You’ve had employees quit, correct?

Mrs. Lippens, Yes, I have.

Mr. Poparad, Do you have unused salaries?

Mrs. Lippens, Yes, I do.

Mr. Poparad, And you didn’t want to spend it on anti-virus?

Mrs. Lippens, I don’t have enough. It’s only $5,200, I believe, is how much money I have open. I don’t have enough to cover it. I mean I would gladly transfer it, but there’s, it’s not enough. And every other budget line item is to the bone, exactly what my expenses are. In fact, we, a lot of times end up waiting to order supplies for the following year because we don’t have enough money in the current year to pay for them. So we just keep carrying it over, but.
One other thing I wanted to point out too is that, if you notice my maintenance agreement budget has gone down. It was $35,870, and then it dropped to the $8,100. The $8,100 is for the virus protection. The difference is the amount of maintenance for the jail and court software, and the Regional Data Services accounts payable and payroll packages. Those two items were included in my budget at the onset, and they’re not mine. They are for specific departments, and when departments buy software, they know they have to include the cost of maintenance with that software. So those amounts were shifted to the auditor's office, and then to adult probation, the courts, and the prosecutor’s offices. Their budgets will be inflated by their corresponding amount that mine was reduced. So it’s that way, you know, they’re each paying their own share for what they use.

Mr. Carmichael, Does anyone have any questions for Sharon? Thank you very much, Sharon, we appreciate it.

Mrs. Lippens, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Anyone else? Neil.

Mr. Hannon, I just wanted to say that I know that I’m asking for new staff also, and I’ll go into that at my appropriate budget hearing time. But I know I support her request, because without that ability to operate, we can’t operate, so it’s very important.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mr. Poparad, I guess I just sort of, I’ve got to ask that question now. Your computers go down, what do you guys do?

Mr. Hannon, We call them.

Mr. Poparad, Do you go home?

Mr. Hannon, No.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, you call her.

Mr. Hannon, Right.

Mr. Poparad, Then what do you do?

Mr. Hannon, I brought a printer from home.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, thank you. I don’t understand. I mean in a little office where I’ve got five women when the computers break, they basically go home. They can’t do anything. Do you guys go home?

Mr. Hannon, No, we don’t.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Hannon, But we’re not able to continue with that process, we’ll go to someone else’s. If all the computers are down, that doesn’t happen that often, but the individual...

Mr. Poparad, But if you have one go down you still function.

Mr. Hannon, Yes, but we’ll have to wait a considerable amount of time right now before that can repaired or have someone attend to it.

Mrs. Stevenson, Bob, let me explain this. With like Jalan, that’s a certain program that certain offices use. If that goes down, and I don’t know, Sharon, does that go down in the whole place or just like in the clerk’s office or what?

Mrs. Lippens, Very rarely it does, the system that houses that go down. Sometimes you have communication issues with buildings, but other than that, any kind of maintenance we always do off hours so it doesn’t interrupt the County’s business.

Mrs. Stevenson, And what the employees do at that point is they can’t work off of that system until it’s taken care, so they do another task or another job. That’s what they do.

Mr. Carmichael, Susan.

Susan Larson, Susan Larson, Center Township, I had two computers that don’t have virus protection. You want the assessors to hurry up, we’re trying to work. However, when I had the two computers down, I have plenty of other work to do and we do do that. We do other research or we get ready to put the information into the computer. But I had two of them go down, each a week, before they could get up there to fix them. It's not their fault. I mean they’re just overly packed that they can’t. They have to take them down and completely rebuild them. I’m telling you, I’m here in this building. I could take the whole system with those two computers that are, have no virus protection.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Ed.

Mr. Melendez, Ed Melendez, Superintendent of the Porter County Parks. I understand her situation that she’s in. We’ve had our new computers even go down with mechanical problems, it’s left our office, and one of our machines, which was one of the newer ones that was purchased earlier last year went down twice. There’s data that’s lost. We’re grateful that we can back it up, but we need to get their maintenance back into, to walk us through a lot of the new programs that have come in, to sit down with the time. They’re basically trying to get these new machines out there, and also give us a quick crash course in what is offered into these new computers. They’re helping us, but also too, they’re trying to keep our other older computers updated, which we’re finding out, some of our other ones have crashed in the last two or three years too, so our data becomes very important to us.

Mr. Carmichael, Thank you very much. We certainly appreciate the input. John.

John Scott, When our computers go down, they all go down. Okay. Once the system crashes, we don’t have...

Mr. Carmichael, But you're on a different system.

Mr. Scott, And we have some older ones. We have looked at a program that they have specified on bringing up new computers to, the state, where we need to be. They’re just under tremendous pressure. The pressure they’re under in trying to do the work that they need to do for the whole county is unbelievable.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, thanks, John. Shirley.

Mrs. LaFever, Bill, I also know that data processing represents all the assessor offices. I know they get phone calls on a daily basis from the township assessor offices. They get there as soon as they can. But I do know for a fact that they are well understaffed. They do need additional employees, like most of us do. I would support anything they could do to respond to the assessors faster, and I know we’re on a waiting list, but without data processing this county would not work.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Yes, Linda.

Linda Trinkler, In the recorder’s office we have our own system, but if it wasn’t for Sharon and her group, a lot of times when we go down, we go down 100%, and we can’t be talked through some of our problems. So Sharon has to send to somebody up. She gets them up as quickly as she can, but I don’t know what we would do without her.

Mr. Carmichael, It’s like owning an automobile without an auto mechanic.

Ms. Trinkler, Exactly.

Mr. Carmichael, It doesn’t work.

Mr. Poparad, Sharon, how do you prioritize your calls? By the way they come in?

Mrs. Lippens, No, it depends on what the call is. If it’s a call for say, a server that’s down, so an entire department is down or several departments are down, that’s going to take priority over somebody whose printer kind of smudges when it prints or something like that. Or somebody’s monitor that has like a fuzzy line at the top, things like that. It basically is prioritized by urgency. It’s, can the person still do part of their job, are they completely down, and how widespread is the outage. That’s how we try and prioritize it.

Mr. Poparad, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Seeing no one else, we’ll entertain a motion to recess until August 16th at 5:00. Do I hear a motion?

Mr. Poparad moved to recess until August 16, 2004. Mrs. Stevenson seconded, motion carried.

SECOND READING
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 5:00 p.m.

Second Readings began on Monday, August 16, 2004 at 5:00 p.m., in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana-Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Members present were Karen Conover, Carole Knoblock, Robert Poparad, John Ruge, Al Steele, Rita Stevenson, and President William Carmichael. Also present was Auditor Sandra Vuko, Attorney David Hollenbeck, Sheila Riley, Becky Phillips, and Jan Noll.

JAIL 01.32
JAIL 217
SHERIFF 01.05
SHERIFF’S GARAGE 01.42
VIN CHECKS 95.05
COUNTY CORRECTIONS 07

Mr. Carmichael, The purpose of this meeting tonight is for second reading. We will start with the Jail.

Mr. Poparad, Yes, Bill, I’ve been working with the sheriff, and I’ve got to be honest, we’re not ready yet. We’re still trying to get hard numbers together.

Mr. Poparad moved to postpone second reading for the Jail, Jail 217, Sheriff, Sheriff's Garage, VIN Checks and County Corrections budgets until August 30, 2004.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, then we’ll advertise it for second and final reading at the same meeting.

Mr. Poparad, Yes, we’ll do the second and final at the same time, if that’s okay with everybody.

Mr. Carmichael, Does everybody understand that?

Mr. Poparad, Sheriff, are you okay with that?
Sheriff David Reynolds, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Alright, I’ll get with you.

Mr. Carmichael, Do I have a second on that?

Mrs. Stevenson seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, The motion is made and seconded. Is there further discussion?

Ms. Riley, We’ll need more time to get the final numbers.

Mr. Poparad, I know. We’re still, the 217...

Ms. Riley, No, what I’m saying is you’re going to do the second reading and the final adoption the same night.

Mr. Poparad, Well we need this week. We need this week, and part of next week.

Ms. Riley, That’s fine. Just we can’t adopt the budgets on the 30th.

Mr. Poparad, We can’t do second and final on the same night?

Ms. Riley, No, because it’s going to take me time to put the numbers all together, and get you all your figures.

Mr. Poparad, Okay. Well, we’ll be under what was advertised.

Ms. Riley, That’s fine, it doesn’t matter, but I still, you guys can’t sign the approved budget that’s not right. That’s what I’m saying.

Mr. Carmichael, We’ll have the final figures that night, and you’ll have the final figures, Debbie, when do you think you can get those to her for final?

Deb Harlow, Probably by the end of the week.

Mr. Carmichael, We’ve got some, one of the problems is like we did last year, we missed the Health Department with the $1,000 raises.

Mr. Poparad, Right.

Ms. Riley, Well I understand that. But I need more time than just one night to get it together.

Mr. Carmichael, Well you’ll have it ahead of time so you can figure it in, and we’ll pass the budget around to make sure that everything is correct. Then at that time we will do second reading and final.

Ms. Riley, Okay.

Mr. Carmichael, But you’ll have the final figures in your hand, okay.

Ms. Riley, Okay.

Mr. Poparad, And we’ll be underneath the advertised amount. I just don’t want to miss anybody for the raises and stuff like that.

Mr. Carmichael, Agreed? Okay, those in favor of the motion, answer by the usual sign of aye.

Motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Thank you very much.



ANIMAL SHELTER 01.45

Mr. Carmichael, Animal Shelter. Hi. Okay, you’ve got the Director at $33,825, and I think, are we going to put in each budget the $1,000 raise for employees? Is that correct?

Mr. Poparad, Are we going to do it now or at the end when we read the salary ordinance.

Mr. Carmichael, You have to do it now, really.

Ms. Riley, I’d rather you do it now.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright then, that figure will change to $34,825.

Mrs. Knoblock, Did she add it in?

Mrs. Conover, No.

Mrs. Knoblock, Did you?

Mr. Steele, No, she didn’t add it.

Mr. Carmichael, No, she did not add it in. Add that into the Senior Officer, and the three employees, bump that to $3,000, and the Animal Caretaker and the Director’s Assistant/Secretary. Grand total?

Ms. Riley, $194,292.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright. Animal Caretakers are at $15,760. That’s the maximum at $8 per hour. Is that correct?

Sandy Ogle, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, And Boards are $25 per meeting. So Salaries and Hourly will change. Total estimate of?

Ms. Riley, $210,052.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, in Personal Services, they’ve got $1,650 in Boards. Is that a correct figure?

Ms. Ogle, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, That will be?

Ms. Riley, $211,702.

Mr. Carmichael, Office Supplies at $1,000. Uniforms, $500. Food & Groceries at $1,000. Other Supplies, $1,000. For a total of $2,500. Household & Bedding at $1,500, total. Medical & Dental Supplies, that's $3,466. Bringing it to the grand total of $8,466. Correct?

Ms. Riley, Yes, you’re talking Supplies?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Ms. Riley, $8,466.

Mr. Carmichael, Other Services, Vet Services at $1,000. Postage at $500. Maintenance Agreements at $250. Equipment other than Vehicles at $350. For a total of $600. Rentals, $297. Other Services and Charges, $4,800 for Contractual. $18,000 for Sterilization. Contractual Attorney at $3,720. For a grand total of $26,520. Total Budget Estimate comes down to what?
Ms. Riley, $249,085.

Mr. Carmichael, $249,085. You’ve heard the request, what's your pleasure?

Mrs. Conover moved to approve the 2005 Animal Shelter 01.45 budget, in the amount of $249,085. Mr. Steele seconded.
Mr. Carmichael, Is there further discussion?

Mr. Steele, Bill, I would just like to say, these people kept everything to the dollar that they had last year. They complied with our request completely.

Mr. Carmichael, Good job.

Ms. Ogle, Thank you.

Mr. Steele, Thank you, Sandy.

Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

TREASURER 01.03

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, would you add $1,000 to each one of those employees; there’s one, two, three, four, five, six. Add a total of $6,000 onto that. That's $170,946. Is that the correct figure?

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, $170,946. $20,000 in Hourly, brings it up to what?

Ms. Riley, $190,946.

Mr. Carmichael, Office Supplies is $2,000. Total Supplies is $2,000. Dues & Subscriptions is $210 even. Maximum total of?

Ms. Riley, $193,156.

Mr. Poparad moved to approve the 2005 Treasurer 01.03 budget, in the amount of $193,156. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, thanks, Jim.

Jim Murphy, Thank you.

HIGHWAY 02
Administration

Mr. Carmichael, Highway Department. I see you've taken our advice, and you already added them in.

Al Hoagland, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, And that total is $317,019 for the employees, the Supervisor, Assistant Supervisor, Engineer, Administrative Assistant, Assistant Engineer, Technician/Secretary, Field Operations Engineer, and Utilities Inspector. Clerical Assistant on an hourly basis at the $10.25 per hour. Is that the correct figure, $331,044?

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Office Supplies at $3,500, total. Other Services & Charges, $3,000 for Training & Education, total. Postage, $600, total. Printing and Advertising, $800, total. All Officials Bonds are raised by $100, to a total of $400. Cleaning, $8,000, same as last year. And Disposal is $6,000, the same as last year, for a grand total, or a total of $18,800. And the grand total is $353,344. Do I have a motion?

Mrs. Conover moved to approve the 2005 Highway 02-Administration budget, in the amount of $353,344. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Maintenance & Repair

Mr. Carmichael, Hourly Employees, Road Foreman, you kept the same rate of pay on all of these?

Mr. Hoagland, No, they were added. The $1,000 was added in there.

Mr. Poparad, He's got some new items, it’s $1,657,160.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, they were added, they are in there. Is that right?

Mr. Hoagland, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, Road Foreman...

Mr. Hoagland, We figured that at 2,080 hours--calculated.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. And the grand total on the hourly then is, including the Equipment Operators, Sweeper Operator, and Overtime, $1,350,828, for total Personal Services. You're going to have that much this year, Al.

Mr. Hoagland, I believe we will.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. That's the grand total then. Alright, Hardware & Tools, $15,500, same as last year. Aggregates, $110,032. Bituminous, $155,032. Lumber at $600. Where are you getting the $50,000 for Bituminous?

Mr. Hoagland, The appropriations, the estimate they give us to figure out our budget, it comes in more on MVH this year, and less on LRS.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh, okay.

Mr. Hoagland, They, we calculated that out when we talked to the state.

Mr. Carmichael, That total under Supplies then is $265,664. Correct figure?

Mr. Hoagland, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, Other Supplies, $15,000, same as last year. Equipment, you raised that, excuse me, Rental of Equipment was raised $2,000, to $9,000 even. Drainage Assessments, $1,400.

Mr. Poparad, Can I ask a question about that, Bill? What is that?

Mr. Hoagland, Pardon me?

Mr. Poparad, What's Drainage Assessments?

Mr. Hoagland, We have to pay taxes on the drainage assessments that we have on the properties that we occupy.

Mr. Poparad, But the County doesn't pay taxes.

Mr. Hoagland, We have a ditch tax, drainage assessments.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Drainage assessments, special assessments, we do pay. Like for instance, if there was a special assessment because a sewer was coming down a street that we’d be tapping into, we’d pay that special assessment. And we pay drainage...

Mr. Poparad, I mean the drainage assessments are for the property taxes, and I thought...

Mr. Hollenbeck, No, it's a special assessment. It's collected through the property tax bill.

Mr. Poparad, And we pay this to the Drainage Board down the hall.

Mr. Hoagland, We’re trying to be good citizens.

Mr. Poparad, Exactly.

Mr. Carmichael, The grand total then is $1,657,392 even. Correct figure, do I have a motion?

Mrs. Conover moved to approve the 2005 Highway 02-Maintenance & Repair budget, in the amount of $1,657,392. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

General & Undistributed Expenses

Mrs. Conover, General & Undistributed. Mechanic, Foreman, Shop Foreman. Do you want to read it?

Mr. Carmichael, Highway Department, General & Undistributed. Mechanic Foreman at $15.55 an hour raised to $16.05. A dollar raise, is that right?

Mr. Hoagland, Less than a dollar.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, it’s less than a dollar. Okay. Shop Mechanic Foreman, $15.95. Mechanics at $15.35. Total, $130,096 even. Employee Benefits, $138,616. Medical/Life Insurance is $352,915. PERF is $89,232. For a total of $580,763. Is that a correct figure?

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Medical Services, under Other Personal, is $3,500, for a grand total of $714,359 even--correct figure. Gas, Fuel & Lubrication, $130,000. Uniforms & Clothing at $10,000. Paint at $1,200. Repair & Maintenance at $15,000. For a total of $156,200. Tires & Tubes, $25,000. Garage & Motor Supplies, $75,500. Tool Allowance, $2,000. For a total of $103,000, even. Total Supplies, $259,200, even. Other Services, nothing. Communication & Transportation, on the Communication line item, it’s $18,000 even, final figure. For the Bldg/Liability/Comprehensive Coverage, $323,339 even. Unemployment, $6,000. For a grand total of $329,330 even. Utility Services, Power, $47,000. Water & Sewage, $900. For a grand total of $47,900. Buildings & Structures at $13,000. Equipment other than Vehicles at $2,500. Vehicle Repair at $72,500. For a grand total of $88,000 even. Lease Purchase, $276,867. That’s the grand total, that's the total. Contractual Services at $6,000. Total, $766,106. Capital Outlays, Office Equipment over $100 at $1,600 even. Other Capital Outlays, Data Processing Equipment at $2,000. For a total of $3,600 even. The Total Budget Estimate is $1,743,265 even. Do I have a motion?

Mrs. Knoblock moved to approve the 2005 Highway 02-General & Undistributed Expenses budget, in the amount of $1,743,265. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

HIGHWAY CUM-BRIDGE 25

Mr. Carmichael, Highway Cum-Bridge. Gas, Fuel & Lubrication, under Supplies, is $30,000. Repair & Maintenance Supplies, Culverts, that’s $60,000. What’s the $85,000 figure there? That’s the total?

Mr. Hoagland, Yes, it’s tires and small tools.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, Tires & Tubes at $20,000, and Small Tools at $5,000. Total Supplies, $115,000 even. Vehicle Repair, $25,000. Safety, $50,000. For a grand total of $75,000 even. Capital Outlays, Motor Vehicles, $125,000. Other Mobile Equipment, $40,000. For a grand total of $165,000. Making the Total Budget Estimate, $355,000 even. Correct figure. Do I have a motion?

Mrs. Conover moved to approve the 2005 Highway Cum-Bridge 25 budget, in the amount of $355,000. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

HIGHWAY LRS 26

Mr. Carmichael, Highway LRS, Local Roads & Streets. Salt, $50,000. What do you have here under Aggregates, $300,000 even.

Mr. Hoagland, $300,000.

Mr. Carmichael, $100,000 for District 1, 2 and 3 each. Bituminous, $500,000. That’s Repair & Maintenance Supplies. Road Signs, $20,000. For a grand total, Total Supplies of $870,000 even. Contractual Services, $80,000 even. Railroad Crossings, $65,000. For a total of $145,000. Final Total, $1,015,000 even. Correct figure?

Ms. Riley, Yes.
Mr. Poparad moved to approve the 2005 Highway LRS 26 budget, in the amount of $1,015,000. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Poparad, Bill, can I ask one question? On the health insurance, was that number okay, the increase? Is that what you’ve got?

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Thank you.

ITS 01.50

Mr. Carmichael, Sharon. Hi, Sharon. Did you take steps to correct that problem we had identified or you identified the last time at our last regular meeting?

Sharon Lippens, Which problem was that?

Mr. Carmichael, Your firewall or your virus protection.

Mrs. Lippens, I still have the quote, yes.

Mr. Carmichael, You have a quote, well some of the council...

Mrs. Lippens, As far as purchasing it this year?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mrs. Lippens, No, I have not, because I do not have money in that line item.

Mr. Carmichael, Well some of the council members feel it was very important, and I think you should go ahead and purchase it, and put in a request to us for an additional or a transfer or something of that nature.

Mrs. Lippens, Probably a combination.

Mr. Carmichael, Whatever, because I think...

Mrs. Lippens, Do you know when the next regular meeting will be?

Mr. Carmichael, Well we can hear it at any time. You can advertise it, right?

Ms. Riley, I have to have 14 days between the advertisement.

Mr. Carmichael, Then advertise it for the 30th then. What's the date today?

Mrs. Conover, It's the 16th .

Ms. Riley, It wouldn’t make it, because it wouldn’t get to the paper until Friday.

Mr. Carmichael, Well then advertise for our September meeting.

Ms. Riley, For the September meeting.

Mr. Poparad, Do we need to advertise for a transfer?

Ms. Riley, You don't have to advertise a transfer, no.

Mrs. Conover, It has to be a combination, she doesn't have the money.

Mr. Carmichael, Have you got the money to transfer?

Mrs. Lippens, I’m working with Sharon in the auditor's office, and it looks like it’s very close, so we’re trying to make sure that we don’t transfer, and then run out of money at the end of the year.
Mr. Carmichael, Well we aren’t going to let you run out of money. Okay?

Mrs. Lippens, Sure. I could transfer it now, and then if we find that we’re short...

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, and just...

Mrs. Lippens, Come back for an additional.

Mr. Carmichael, And just, with the contract, just pay half of it to start with, and send the other half in 30 days or 60 days or 90 days, whatever. Can you do that?

Mrs. Lippens, They usually are a net-30.

Mr. Carmichael, They usually want a check.

Mrs. Lippens, Sure, but...

Mr. Carmichael, Can you work that out you think?

Ms. Riley, Sharon and I have already talked.

Mr. Steele, Sharon, what do you need, $8,000? You need $8,000.

Mrs. Lippens, It was just under $8,100.

Mr. Steele, There seems to be, in the different funds here, like almost $16,000 left in some of these funds, so you should have enough to transfer.

Mrs. Lippens, I can, but then I’ll be short in those funds by the end of the year, because there’s bills and things that have to come out of those.

Mr. Carmichael, Well...

Mr. Steele, Like Bill said, we could take care of it.

Mr. Carmichael, We'll take care of it.

Mr. Steele, Because we need the protection right now.

Mrs. Lippens, Right, exactly. I could transfer as long as then, you know, when I come back for the additional.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, then do it tomorrow.

Mrs. Lippens, Sure, no problem.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Alright, I just got mine straightened out. This gentleman over here helped straighten it out. He did me a great big favor. It worked, nice. Okay, you did not include the raises for employees?

Mrs. Lippens, No, I did not.

Mr. Carmichael, Would you add $1,000 to each one of those. There’s one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

Mrs. Conover, No, two of the positions are new, or, Sharon, are you wanting them to come in on what our Network Support Specialist is currently going to be making? You have two new positions included in here.

Mrs. Lippens, Yes.

Mrs. Conover, Do you want that to reflect the $36,274 or the $35,274?

Mrs. Lippens, I think the current is fine. I don’t think it would need the $1,000.

Mrs. Conover, Okay.
Mr. Poparad, Well then, are we giving her the two positions?

Mr. Carmichael, Absolutely.

Mrs. Conover, I guess that’s open for discussion. I’ve heard from more department heads and office holders here over the past six months, and especially so, over the last week. We’ve got computers sitting in boxes in her office that she does not have time to send help out to install them.

Mr. Carmichael, We either have to appropriate a huge amount of money to have her outsource it, where she doesn’t have total control, like she has with an employee. You can hire or fire. With an outsourcing, it’s a little different situation, and very expensive.

Mr. Steele, Sharon, after those...

Mrs. Lippens, Sure, and they...

Mr. Steele, Excuse me.

Mrs. Lippens, They still have to work with the County IT personnel for a specific setup and things like that. So it’s not...

Mr. Carmichael, Not standard?

Mrs. Lippens, It’s not just putting it on the desk and plugging it in.

Mr. Carmichael, It’s not anything standard like my home.

Mrs. Lippens, No, each office has different needs as far as software, and things like that, so it’s different from office to office.

Mr. Steele, Sharon, once this equipment is set up, then will we not need these people or will they do something else or what?

Mrs. Lippens, I had dropped a packet off, and basically, the amount that we’re behind now, plus adding in the new purchases, and that these purchases are going to be made every year for the next five years, and then probably continuing after that, I know they will not have idle time. It is not a one-time push. It’s going to be continuing.

Mr. Carmichael, Welcome to the computer age.

Mr. Poparad, Yes, there’s no doubt she needs help.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh yes.

Mr. Poparad, I just wonder if the money was better be spent with her getting some quotes from people that come in and help, and get these problems solved. We throw a little money at it.

Mrs. Lippens, I’ve done that.

Mr. Carmichael, We can get quotes.

Mrs. Lippens, I’ve done that. It’s in the packet I gave you all.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh, I didn’t see the packet. I’m sorry. Did you deliver it this week?

Mrs. Lippens, It was a week ago Friday.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh.

Ms. Noll, You just got it in your box. Bill, it may be in your book.

Mr. Steele, Sharon, could you just refresh our memories since everybody is not snapped in on this?

Mrs. Conover, It’s pretty detailed.

Mr. Steele, Then we’ll know right now, and we won’t have to be digging around.

Mrs. Lippens, We looked at contracting an outside vendor. We contacted a couple of places around town. The average was $90 an hour. If we were to use, we did an estimate of how many hours per month in different types of requests that we get, in order to come up with a quote, and using that $90 an hour estimate, if we were to hire outside people, it would be about $2,050, $2,000.

Mr. Poparad, But that’s $90 an hour based on an hour here and an hour there. Not as for a, let’s use the word maintenance agreement. That changes the numbers dramatically.

Mr. Poparad moved to table second reading for the 2005 ITS 01.50 budget until accurate figures can be obtained for contracted services. Mrs. Knoblock seconded.

Mr. Poparad, Get these people in here, and get some quotes on. Yes, it’s $90 an hour if they come in here and fix that PC. But if they sign some maintenance contracts or have some longer, you know, a little broader scope to work, I think the numbers might be different. There’s no doubt she needs help. I don’t know if outsourcing some of this work is cheaper. It may not be, but we haven’t investigated it deep enough.

Mr. Carmichael, I’m sorry, Bob.

Mr. Poparad, Well there’s no doubt she needs help down there. But outsourcing, I mean there's not a lot of businesses that don't outsource some of this work.

Mr. Carmichael, Well.

Mr. Poparad, And I don’t know if it’s something that we can look at really hard. Yes, $90 an hour to come over here and fix that PC, but if there’s some form of a maintenance agreement; do they offer maintenance agreements? I don’t know.

Mr. Steele, And Bill, that's two more people on the insurance too. So I think we should study this just a little more. And Sharon, you need the help, we know that.

Mrs. Lippens, Right, I understand that. I think that that issue has already been looked at, and some of the details are outlined in this packet.

Mr. Poparad, I’ve never seen any numbers.

Mrs. Lippens, I delivered it a week ago Friday.

Mr. Poparad, No, I mean proposals from like Bucher, Chester’s.

Mrs. Lippens, But a proposal today is not going to be accurate in January of 2005. All I can do is work with the numbers today.

Mr. Poparad, I agree, yes. And I don’t disagree it’s $90 an hour if you come in and fix one computer. But if you said to Bucher, Chester’s, or whoever else, I don’t know, I don’t do computers, you know, we need, how much would it cost to have somebody come in here to help us for six months. It’s not going to be $90 an hour.

Mrs. Lippens, Well, the other quote that’s in here is bringing in a person that works on contract on their own, not with a company.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mrs. Lippens, The average price there is $50 an hour, and you’re still way over the cost of hiring a full-time person, even with benefits.

Mr. Poparad, There’s no doubt that it might be initially more expensive to hire a full-time person. But long-term costs never go away on full-time employees.

Mrs. Lippens, I understand, but the need for this type of service is not going to go away in the future.

Mr. Poparad, Well, yes, I mean, you know...

Mr. Steele, And, Sharon, we had too, we discussed earlier these interns from the University, and these kids can come in and plug this stuff in a second. So maybe you can contact the lady up there. School will be starting soon.

Mrs. Lippens, I have spoken with...

Mr. Steele, And so maybe we can have some come in and do the work, and then have some of it done free. I think there’s a lot to explore here before we jump in and hire two more people.

Mrs. Lippens, I agree, and I have spoken to the people in charge of the intern services at Purdue North Central, as well as, IU.

Mr. Steele, And VU?

Mrs. Lippens, I have not spoken to VU, and they have informed me that there has to be some form of a payment, and the payment is supposed to be reasonable, what you would pay a normal person, and I have...

Mr. Steele, Not at VU, because I’ve spoken to the lady. VU will even pay their salary. So I would contact Valparaiso University.

Mrs. Lippens, My only concern with that is, I like that idea, but I don’t think that it is a solution because you’re still going to have someone from the IT department having to train that person, and then they’re going to go away, and they’re going to take that training with them, and you’re going to get another intern. You’re going to have those types of issues, where if you get a person, they’re going to learn, then they’re going to stay.

Mr. Steele, These are intelligent people, and they learn quickly, and they’re there every year. They keep coming on board every year. There’s a supply, never-ending.

Mr. Carmichael, Well I, sorry, I disagree.

Mr. Poparad, No, I got a...

Mr. Carmichael, It should be handled in-house.

Mr. Poparad, No, no.

Mr. Steele, No, Bill.

Mr. Poparad, No, a lot of companies don’t handle it in-house.

Mr. Carmichael, You’ve got a director of the IT, and you should listen to what she has to say, and what...

Mr. Poparad, I don’t, I'm not saying she’s not telling us the truth.

Mr. Carmichael, And what she’s requesting.

Mr. Poparad, Well I understand what she's requesting, but I’m sitting here, you know, I think we need some outside people to come in and give us a hand. I mean there’s a lot of companies that don’t do any of this in-house. Lake County contracts all their IT. Is that a fair statement?
Mrs. Lippens, Yes. Do you have any idea how much they pay?

Mr. Poparad, I just made a statement.

Mrs. Lippens, I think you’ll be astounded.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, I’m sure they pay a lot of money, but they don’t do it in-house. A lot of large corporations do not do this work in-house. Now I’m not saying we should get rid of her or the department, but I think we need to take a hard look at some of this stuff. I mean she’s got a whole wall full of computers down there that she can’t get installed for a year. That was the statement the other night. I’ll help her carry them upstairs and put them in somebody’s office. I mean we don’t need to be a brain surgeon to put these computers out. Now you might need to have some training to hook them up.

Mrs. Lippens, I beg your pardon, there’s a lot more involved than taking a computer out of a box and setting it on a desk.

Mr. Poparad, I agree with that. I’ll help you take the printer from Union Township up to Pine, if that would help your department. There’s a motion and a second on the floor, Bill.

Mr. Steele, What is the motion? Let’s repeat that.

Sean O'Meara, Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Carmichael, Certainly.

Mr. O'Meara, I believe I might have made a mistake in not conveying the right amount of information to my director. This will only take a minute, and I think I speak loud enough. As far as the role of an intern goes, Mr. Steele brings up a great point in bringing in interns to Porter County to help us with our IT staff. I am an instructor at Ivy Tech State College. I have contacted them, and I have looked into using interns from that university as well as others, to come into our department and give us hand. However, we deal with the court system; we deal with the juvenile system. We do deal with information in this county that is secure, and cannot be running the risk of running it out to the public. I cannot trust an intern with that responsibility.
Frankly, we deal with a lot of customized applications in this county. From the students that I have talked to in both the Michigan City and Valpo campus, these students that are coming out of our current universities are not prepared to handle that on an intern level. We need someone with experience in here who can handle the hardware. Likewise, if we decide to outsource, and bring in outside people to help us through this problem, it might help us with this problem, and that’s where I might have made a mistake in reporting my numbers to the director. It might help us with this problem, but this problem does not go away.
As your packets indicated, this is a continuing problem. You will continually have to pay for outsourcing, and again, we are confronting the same issue of security. There are some areas in this county that outsourced personnel will not be able to have the access to passwords and accounts. I do apologize to this council and my director for not making that clear before now.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, we’re open to input. Alright, the motion is to table this budget to a later date.

Mr. Poparad, I just don’t know if we need to take a harder look, that’s all.

Mrs. Stevenson, Let me make a comment here. I went to, through the clerk’s office, I went through IRS training back in December. And yes, what Sean is saying is correct as far as confidential information, just being accessible to anybody. I don’t know how much they would be able to see or what the process is. I don’t know your jobs, so I don’t know the process. But maybe we should check with other counties, because all 92 counties in this state, maybe we should check around, and find out if they outsource, you know, this, and what they do for confidentiality. Maybe we should check into this.

Mrs. Lippens, I have spoken to two other counties that I work with on a continual basis, because they are the same similar size as we are, and that is Elkhart County and Tippecanoe County, and they all have in-house IT departments. Most other counties do not; they pay for complete outsource. Those counties have full-time staff to take care of their county, so that when they have an outage, their person is there already, ready to take care of it, rather than calling someone, them having to come out in a couple of days, look at it, go back, get a part, come back, that type of thing. A lot of the other smaller counties, they don’t have a centralized IT department. Every department does their own thing, and so they have their own maintenance agreements or their own, one staff person that kind of takes care of their computers.

Mrs. Stevenson, But when it’s outsourced, that means that the person on the outside has access to the confidential files.

Mrs. Lippens, Yes, they do. Usually it’s an outside company that you sign a contract with, and then there's a confidentiality agreement.

Mrs. Stevenson, Does the IRS take care of that? Do they have a signed contract? Because what I’m saying is, when I went to school, we had to sign papers that we don’t give any confidentiality away. So what I’m saying is, if we would bring in a different firm, then they would have to sign something. Maybe it would have to be drawn up through the IRS to make sure that there is all this confidentiality upheld.
Mrs. Lippens, Okay. I know that...

Mrs. Stevenson, I don’t know all that, I’m just...

Mrs. Lippens, Most of our contracts state right in there that they are not allowed to do anything or access anything with the data, except for their specific job purpose, and when they sign the contract that’s their agreement they are agreeing to that. As far as specific guidelines from the IRS, I haven’t seen anything.

Mrs. Stevenson, Because the clerk’s office has to abide by what the IRS dictates.

Mrs. Lippens, Right.

Mrs. Stevenson, And that's what I’m saying. Maybe we should check into this before we say, yes, you can have two more people or we're going to make a decision, and bring in an outside source. Maybe we should check into it further with what the laws are. I’m not saying that this doesn’t need to be taken care of immediately. I’m just saying there has to be an agreement that four of us are going to at least agree with, and you have to live with.

Mrs. Lippens, Exactly.

Mrs. Conover, Sharon, if we outsourced, how many people would you need, and how many hours at $50 or $90 would you need somebody; 30 hours a week; 40 hours a week?

Mrs. Lippens, I would like to have someone 35 hours a week all year round. And with the number of, as far behind as we are, the number of hours of requested service we get per month, if it wasn’t somebody that was here all the time, and I guess that’s why in looking at the cost difference between outsourcing and internal, there was such a, such a big cost difference. You know, it seemed that it was much more reasonable to bring someone in full-time even with benefits than to pay three or four or five times the hourly rate that an employee would make.

Mrs. Conover, And to outsource, I know the probation office has a program; the clerk’s office has a program; the prosecutor has programs. There’s various programs running through our government here. And how many computers do we service again?

Mrs. Lippens, Between 400 and, about 450.

Mrs. Conover, And how many systems, how many operating systems?

Mrs. Lippens, How many operating systems, about four. Well, it depends on if you’re talking desktop operating systems or server operating systems.

Mrs. Conover, And with that said, does companies that we could contract with--potentially contract with--do they, are they up to snuff on what the clerk’s office needs, and the prosecutor office needs, and the probation needs, and the auditor’s needs?

Mrs. Lippens, No, they’re not going to have the knowledge of how the County runs, and how the offices run. They will have basic information about how a computer runs, and how the communications work, but not of the applications. But that, we’re talking about hardware here anyway. So they would, an outside firm should have the knowledge that would be required from a hardware perspective.

Mr. Poparad, Yes, I’m just referring to the hardware. I’m not referring to the programming or the programs themselves. I’m talking about, because she's asking for two technicians, which do the, you know, fix the computers, I guess--for lack of a better word. That’s what I’m talking about outsourcing, at least look at.

Mrs. Conover, So the hardware end of it?

Mr. Poparad, Yes. The bad monitors, the broken keyboard, whatever, I don’t know. That’s what I’m talking about. I’m not talking about the program. I don’t understand what the difference is between a network engineer, and a network support specialist, a network application administrator is anyway, so. That’s what I was referring to, the grunt work--for lack of a better word.

Mr. Carmichael, I have a suggestion before we vote on tabling the whole thing. How about if we read through it, and adopt it on first reading. We can always change it or lower it at second or at final reading.

Mr. Poparad, Well are we going to hire two people?

Mr. Carmichael, Because you’re going to run into the same situation that we have with the sheriff’s department. We’re going to have that, the 30th meeting is going to be, you know, second readings, and final readings, and advertising. You’re going to have to settle on a budget ahead of time, in order for Sheila to be able to advertise it. So it’s very confusing to do it in this fashion.

Mr. Poparad, I agree with that.

Mr. Steele, But, Bill, we have to start to do things right. If it takes time, we have to do it.

Mr. Poparad, Are we going to read in two new employees? That’s my first question.

Mr. Carmichael, You can read it in or you can read it out at this time, and you can add them later. Is that correct?

Mrs. Vuko, Yes, whatever.

Mr. Poparad, Because I mean two new employees with benefits, it’s probably going to be $90,000. Fair number?

Ms. Riley, $99,506 to be exact.

Mr. Poparad, Oh okay, so $100,000 for two new employees. I don’t know if $100,000 thrown at Chester’s or Bucher or some of these local companies might go a long way in getting this work done. You might be surprised how fast the public or the private sector can respond.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, do you still want to go through with the tabling?

Mrs. Knoblock, There's a motion on the floor.

Mr. Carmichael, Well that's what I’m asking. It can always be withdrawn.

Mr. Poparad, I just thought we needed to look at this harder, that’s all. I mean everybody’s first thing is to always hire new people.

Mr. Carmichael, Do you want to read it without the two employees?

Mr. Poparad, Let’s do that. I’ll go with that.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, does the second agree with Bob? You made the motion, Bob?

Mr. Poparad, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Does the second agree with that?

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, the second agrees with. Then the motion is not voted upon.

Motion to table second reading for the 2005 ITS 01.50 budget was withdrawn.

Mr. Carmichael, Director, you did not include the $1,000 in the director, $53,500. Network Engineer/Assistant Director, $44,813. Network Support Specialist, add $1,000 to each one of those until you get down to; Sandy, what position?

Mrs. Vuko, It was the IT Operator.

Mr. Carmichael, ITS Support?

Mrs. Vuko, Yes, and the Computer Support Specialist.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, that’s in at; is that a current employee?

Mrs. Lippens, I’m sorry?

Mrs. Vuko, No, that’s the two was added in.

Ms. Riley, No, the computer support specialist, I think is Deb Butterfield’s position, and you're bringing her to the midrange.

Mrs. Lippens, No, no.

Ms. Riley, Okay, the position above is requesting to be at the midpoint.

Mrs. Lippens, What’s the question?

Ms. Riley, This year it’s $35,274, and you're asking for $38,774 or is it $38,744? There’s two different numbers on the other side, Sharon.

Mrs. Lippens, Oh, I see that. It should be 774. This is our current technician, and the request was moved to the midpoint, in that if the two additional employees were approved, and that person has been here approximately three years, that we wouldn’t bring in somebody at the same salary that a person with service has. That was where that request came from.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, currently make $23,808?

Mrs. Vuko, Yes, that’s…

Mrs. Lippens, I’m sorry? You’re moving down?

Mrs. Vuko, That’s Pam’s position.

Mr. Carmichael, Currently making $23,808.

Mrs. Lippens, That’s Pam’s position. I was on the one above it, the 0150.06.

Mr. Carmichael, Midrange.

Mrs. Lippens, The 0150.06...

Mr. Carmichael, Currently making $32,464.

Mrs. Lippens, Right, that one is the same.

Mr. Carmichael, And you’ve not added the $1,000 to that?

Mrs. Lippens, No.

Mr. Carmichael, You have to add $1,000 to that, right?

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Then, Administrative Assistant, you did not add it to that one either.

Mrs. Lippens, The, what I’m submitting is eliminating the administrative assistant position, and having a new position titled ITS Operations Support Technician, in that the person that's in this position, when the ITS department, when the Data Processing department merged with the Print Shop, the person that was in the print shop was removed from working there, and brought in as an IT person. The current administrative assistant since last fall and this whole year has been running the entire print shop, and managing every aspect of it. They also have knowledge and skills to perform the operations technician position in their absence. Therefore, I’m asking that that position be equal to that one.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Alright, what’s the grand total on that then?

Mrs. Knoblock, We were supposed to leave these like last year.

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, What?

Mrs. Knoblock, We were supposed to leave these budgets like they were last year.

Mrs. Stevenson, Exactly. That’s what the other people have been doing. That’s what we requested. The increases weren’t supposed to be put in there.

Mrs. Lippens, I didn’t put, I did not put like the $1,000 increases in there.

Mr. Carmichael, It’s the same as last year.

Mrs. Lippens, I put in the...

Mrs. Stevenson, No, it’s not.

Mrs. Lippens, I put in the...

Mrs. Stevenson, No, it’s not.

Ms. Riley, No, it’s not, that's what we've been trying to tell you.

Mrs. Lippens, I put in the changes for the changing of the positions that I’m requesting. But as far as the $1,000 increase or whatever, it is not included. The two basic changes are the current Computer Support Specialist, I requested them to be moved to the midpoint, if the two additional positions are granted, so that we're not bringing in two people at the same level that a three-year veteran employee is. And the other one was completely changing the, eliminating the administrative assistant position, and changing it to an operations technician position, with the change in salary.

Mr. Carmichael, Well I think we’re...

Mrs. Lippens, In that the salaries were not increased without an increase in duties and responsibilities or by bringing in new people underneath.

Mrs. Stevenson, I make a motion, can I?

Mr. Carmichael, Wait a minute. I think for clarification, I think what you are talking about is removing the two employees at this time, and considering it at the next reading. Is that right?

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes. I would like to make a motion to leave the other two figures the way they are, until we decide what we're going to do with the two new people, or whether we outsource it or what we do. So we want everything left as is.

Mrs. Stevenson moved to keep the current salaries for the Computer Support Specialist and the ITS Operations Support Technician at the 2004 level until further information on outsourcing is obtained.

Mrs. Lippens, I can understand that, the only request I would make is with the elimination of the administrative assistant position, that has nothing to do with new employees being granted or not. It’s a complete change in the entire job, and that is why I was requesting that to be adjusted.

Mrs. Stevenson, I believe in the motion, I would like it to just stay the same.

Mrs. Knoblock seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, your motion then is on which positions? The midrange, is that the one you are talking about?

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes, the Computer Support Specialist.

Mr. Carmichael, The ITS Operations Support Technician?

Mrs. Stevenson, The Computer Support Specialist, which is $35,275 this year. She was going to move it up to $38,774. That one.

Mr. Carmichael, In other words, you’re going to move it to...

Mrs. Conover, So that should be $36,274, we’re including the $1,000 raise there?

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, $36,274?

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes, I could go, my motion would be with the $1,000 raise.

Mrs. Stevenson moved to amend her motion to include the $1,000 raise for the Computer Support Specialist.

Mr. Carmichael, Is there a second to that motion?

Mrs. Knoblock seconded.

Mrs. Stevenson, And then, wait a minute, where’s the other one?

Mrs. Lippens, It’s 0150.08.

Mrs. Stevenson, Okay, then that one too.

Mrs. Stevenson moved to add $1,000 to the ITS Operations Support Technician salary.

Mrs. Stevenson, Include the $1,000 raise on that, and keep it as is, at the $23,908.

Mr. Carmichael, It would be $24,808.

Mrs. Stevenson, Right, I’m sorry.

Mr. Carmichael, Does the second agree with that?

Mrs. Knoblock seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, Is there further discussion? Then the motion is to eliminate the two, give the $1,000 raise to the computer support specialist, as we did with other employees. Those in favor of the motion, answer by the usual sign of aye.

Motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Now we’ll continue with the final total, under the circumstances where we eliminated the two. The final total on that line item of Total Annual Salaries is what?

Ms. Riley, $339,616. Can we just verify the salaries one time to be sure?

Mrs. Conover, Yes, good idea.

Ms. Riley, Thank you. I have $53,500 for the Director. $44,813 for the Network Engineer. $36,274 for the Support Specialist. $38,020 for the Programmer/Analyst. $34,531 for the other Programmer/Analyst. $36,274 for the Support Specialist. Nothing for the two people. $33,464 for the midrange Operations Support Technician. I have $24,808 for the ITS Operations Support Tech, and $37,932 for the Application Administrator.

Mr. Poparad, What did you read for 0150.05?

Ms. Riley, What was that again?

Mr. Poparad, 01.50.05 Programmer/Analyst.

Ms. Riley, $34,531.

Mr. Poparad, I've got $36,895.

Ms. Riley, That's a new person, it’s brought in to the low.

Mr. Poparad, Oh, okay. What's the current year salary for that position? Sheila?

Ms. Riley, What was that, Bob?

Mr. Poparad, What’s the current year salary for that position?

Mr. Carmichael, It says 37-2...

Ms. Riley, She cut it down to the $33,531 when the gentleman was hired.

Mr. Poparad, I’ve got $36,895.

Ms. Riley, It was $36,895, but it has been; when they hire in, Bob...

Mr. Poparad, I understand that.

Ms. Riley, They go to the low of the position. You don’t change it on the 144, they just go into the low, and then they change it the following year at the budget hearings.

Mr. Poparad, So that’s what we are budgeting for the position. Alright, thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Grand total, $339,616?

Ms. Riley, $339,616.

Mrs. Conover, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Supplies, $2,000. Office Fixtures under $100, $500. For a total of $2,500. Other Supplies, $500 even. Total Supplies, $3,000.

Mr. Poparad, Bill, can I ask a question?

Mr. Carmichael, Pardon?

Mr. Poparad, Can I ask a question before you get off this?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Sharon, why did you go down from $15,000 to $2,000 in Office Supplies?

Mrs. Lippens, Because the auditor’s office informed me that the paper and forms that we purchase really should not be purchased out of Office Supplies. They should be purchased out of 3310 Printing other than Office Supplies, so those were shifted.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, thanks.

Mr. Carmichael, Training & Education, $500. Travel, $1,000. Printing other than Office Supplies at $30,000. That’s where the figure is, I believe, Maintenance Agreements, $8,100. Equipment other than Vehicles, $10,000. Now, you did include that bid you had for the $8,100.

Mrs. Lippens, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Good. Equipment other than Vehicles, $10,000. For a total of $18,100. Lease Purchase, $36,740. Dues & Subscriptions, $150. For a total of $86,490. Total Budget Estimate?

Ms. Riley, $429,106.

Mr. Poparad, Can I ask a question, Bill?

Mr. Carmichael, Go.

Mr. Poparad, What’s the 3670 Lease Purchase for?

Mrs. Lippens, That is for a three-year contract, which was for the purchase of the County’s mainframe.

Mr. Poparad, We don’t buy that out of the CCD?
Mrs. Lippens, No.

Mr. Poparad, Should we buy that out of the CCD?

Mrs. Lippens, I guess that’s a commissioner decision.

Mr. Carmichael, Right. You've heard the figure.

Mr. Poparad moved to approve the 2005 ITS 01.50 budget, in the amount of $429,106. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, I think the previous discussion, you should have that all ironed out, and the questions all answered, so we can make a rational decision at our next meeting.

Mrs. Lippens, When is that meeting?

Mr. Carmichael, When can we get them back on there? Is that tomorrow night?

Ms. Riley, You're on tomorrow night; you're on Thursday night.

Mr. Carmichael, Tomorrow night or Thursday night.

Mrs. Lippens, I don’t know if I can get quotes back from the companies by then. I mean I can call and ask.

Mrs. Conover, Thursday then, Sharon?

Mr. Poparad, Thursday. She won’t get nothing back in 24 hours.

Mrs. Lippens, I can call and ask. I don’t know how long it will take.

Mr. Carmichael, The 30th, do you want to consider it then?

Mr. Poparad, Well if we do it Thursday, can you respond by Thursday, you think?

Mrs. Lippens, I don’t know if they can. I can be here Thursday, but.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, why don’t we plan on Thursday, and see if you’re available.

Mrs. Lippens, That’s fine.

Mr. Carmichael, Get this straightened out, one way or another. Because if we don’t, we’re going to have to appropriate...

Mrs. Lippens, This coming Thursday?

Mr. Carmichael, What?

Mrs. Lippens, That’s this coming Thursday?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, and if we don’t, we’re going to have to come up with an additional appropriation of whatever the estimate is, $100,000 or something. Okay, do you have anything else? That’s it. Okay, thank you, Sharon.

Mrs. Lippens, Thank you.

PLANNING & BUILDING DEPARTMENT 239

Mr. Carmichael, What do we have, Planning & Building.

Mr. Ruge, Which budget is this?

Mr. Carmichael, The Planning Department/Building Department.

Mr. Ruge, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Good evening, gentlemen. Mr. Surveyor.

Bob Thompson, Good evening.

Kevin Breitzke, Good evening.

Mr. Carmichael, Executive Director, I see you’ve included the $1,000, that's $47,000 even.

Mr. Thompson, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, Building Commissioner at $29,543. Zoning Inspector/Assistant Planner at $32,537. Administrative Assistant at, is that a new person?

Mr. Thompson, The administrative person, I should probably start explaining something on this. I’ve been going back and forth with the commissioners, and the Plan Commission on this particular budget. The administrative assistant position is vacant right now. Okay. And one of the things that we’re going on was because of the fact that we were going to be adding some ordinances, such as unsafe building ordinances, and few other items.
The commissioners wanted to keep that position. The Plan Commission said at first, get rid of it; the commissioners said, no, we want to keep it; went back, and we discussed it, and I finally said that if we are going to do something, instead of having an administrative assistant or clerical, I need somebody that’s out in the field. So we’re talking about having a code enforcement officer, which is on that listing. But to be able to get that person activated and going, we can only, I guess, have the administrative position eliminated. I guess that’s what we are talking about. However, I do have to still form the job description for that position, and go through the low salary and codification.

Mr. Carmichael, Your budget is generated from fees, is that right?

Mr. Thompson, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Alright, thank you. First Deputy at $28,295.

Mrs. Conover, Did we eliminate that?

Mrs. Knoblock, Are we eliminating that for now?

Mr. Carmichael, No, you’re going to keep it there.

Mr. Thompson, The administrative assistant position?

Mr. Carmichael, No.

Mr. Thompson, I was going to ask if you can, there is a Code Enforcement Officer that’s listed. Okay. I’d like to ask for the salary of $28,500 for the code enforcement officer; go through the process, and then we'll eliminate the administrative assistant position. That’s what we were discussing with the commissioners.

Mr. Carmichael, 28-what?

Mr. Thompson, $28,500.

Mrs. Knoblock, And do what with it?

Mr. Carmichael, Do you agree with that? Okay.

Mr. Poparad, This where we need that.

Mr. Carmichael, That’s the way they want to go. Our representative of the Plan Commission indicates that they've discussed it, and that's...

Mr. Poparad, Yes, we've beat this one to death.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, the pencil in the Code Enforcement officer at $28,500, eliminated the administrative assistant at $24,556.

Mr. Poparad, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, And that gives us a total figure of?

Ms. Riley, $214,099.

Mr. Carmichael, Part-time Building Inspector at...

Mrs. Knoblock, I thought...

Mr. Carmichael, Pardon?

Mrs. Knoblock, I thought we were going to leave everything like it was last year.

Mr. Poparad, No, these, well, we’ve been going back and forth with the Plan Commission, Carole.

Mr. Steele, Carole, this gives us someone that we really need, and we’re actually saving money. So I think it’s a good move.

Mr. Carmichael, Further discussion? No. Okay. Part-time Building Inspector, $10.46. John, did you have a question?

Mr. Ruge, This is some reduction for the year?

Mr. Carmichael, If...

Mr. Thompson, This budget is a reduction from last year’s budget.

Mr. Ruge, That’s good.

Mr. Thompson, Yes. It’s, I don't know the exact amount, but I know it’s considerably lower.

Mr. Carmichael, Part-time Building Inspector at $10.46. Part-time Secretary at $9.46. How did you come up with the pennies--the 46? What just not $9.50 and $10.50 or whatever?

Mr. Thompson, I went back by the previous years, the $1,000 raise that was granted, it was 48 cents and hour.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh, okay.

Mr. Thompson, So that's why.

Mr. Carmichael, Whatever. Boards, $50 per meeting. Total Salaries & Wages is what?

Ms. Riley, $214,099. Oh wait, I’m sorry. $266,511, that's Salaries and Hourly. Sorry. You'll have to change FICA and PERF as well.

Mr. Carmichael, FICA, Medical/Life Insurance and PERF.

Ms. Riley, Your new FICA amount will be $20,389. The PERF amount will be $10,705. For a total of $65,094.

Mr. Carmichael, Boards, $10,700. Total Personal Services?

Ms. Riley, $342,305.

Mr. Carmichael, Office Supplies, $4,000. Office Fixtures under $100, $300. For $3,400 total. Other Supplies, $900. Law Books, $1,700. Legal, $16,000 even. Training & Education, $2,000. For a total of $18,000. Travel, $10,000 even. Legal Notices, $1,100 even. Photo & Blueprint, $750 even. For a total of $1,850. Maintenance Agreements at $2,800. Dues & Subscriptions at $1,350. For a total with the Contractual Attorney, at total of $9,100 even. Total Services, $41,750. Is that correct?

Ms. Riley, Yes.
Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Now Total Budget Estimate?

Ms. Riley, $390,955.

Mr. Carmichael, What’s your pleasure?

Mr. Poparad moved to approve the 2005 Planning/Building Department 239 budget, in the amount of $390,955. Mr. Ruge seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Do you want to take a break? Okay, we’ll take five minutes. Okay, Kevin?

Mr. Breitzke, That's fine.

At this time, there was a five-minute break.

SURVEYOR 01.06

Mr. Carmichael, We’ll call the meeting back to order; we’ll consider the Surveyor’s budget at this time. Surveyor, you’re under contract for $56,750. Is that right?

Mr. Breitzke, Yes, last year.

Mr. Carmichael, And you have signed a contract for next year?

Mr. Breitzke, No, not yet.

Mr. Carmichael, What’s your request?

Mr. Breitzke, Well we haven’t put the $1,000 increases in for the salaries.

Mr. Carmichael, That request is going to be $57,750.

Mr. Breitzke, $57,750.

Mr. Carmichael, Administrative Assistant at $26,853.

Mr. Breitzke, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, Drainage Construction Manager at $39,251. Survey Technician at $30,792. Grand total on that would be?

Ms. Riley, $154,646.

Mr. Carmichael, Survey Class I, Part-time Hourly, $12.50. Surveyor Class II, $9.50. Surveyor Class III, $7.50. Crew Chief, $16.50. Office Clerk at $8.50. Is that correct?

Mr. Breitzke, Yes, that remains the same as last year.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, making that total of Personal Services would be?

Ms. Riley, $166,771.

Mr. Carmichael, Office Supplies, $1,800. Office Fixtures under $100 is $75. For a total of $1,875. Gas, Fuel & Lubrication at $1,750.

Mr. Poparad, Bill, can I ask a question?

Mr. Carmichael, Sure.

Mr. Poparad, You buy your own fuel?

Mr. Breitzke, We pay the sheriff’s garage and the highway garage whenever we get it. We just reimburse them.

Mr. Carmichael, There’s your answer, what we were looking at the other day.
Mr. Poparad, What?

Mr. Carmichael, We talked about that the other day in our regular financial meeting.

Mr. Poparad, Oh, okay. Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Other Supplies, $2,000. For a total of $3,750. Tires & Tubes, $300. Small Tools, $300. For a total of $600. Other Supplies, Shop Supplies, $430. Law Books, $100. For a total of $530 even. Total Supplies, $6,755. Training & Education, $1,700 even. Travel, $100 even. Blueprint & Photos, $1,950 even. Maintenance Agreements, $2,000. Equipment other than Vehicles, $1,000. Vehicle Repair at $500. For a total of $3,500 even. Other Services, Dues & Subscriptions at $100. County Memberships at $200. Contractual Services at $2,685. Making it a grand total of, $10,235 even. Is that correct?

Mr. Breitzke, $10,235.

Mr. Carmichael, Other Mobile Equipment, $150 even. Data Processing Equipment, $2,000. Total Capital Outlays, $2,150. Grand budget total, Total Budget Estimate?

Ms. Riley, $185,911.

Mr. Carmichael, Call that number, 911.

Mr. Poparad moved to approve the 2005 Surveyor 01.06 budget, in the amount of $185,911. Mr. Steele seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, Further discussion?

Mr. Ruge, Does this include the $1,000 raise?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes. Roll call.

Motion incomplete on the following roll vote:

Knoblock - Yes Poparad - Yes
Ruge - Yes Steele - Yes

Mrs. Stevenson, Do I have to give an answer? Can I ask a question? I have to give an answer, don’t I?

Mr. Carmichael, You can ask a question; go ahead.

Mrs. Stevenson, I thought the 4000 series was out. I thought we took it out in 2002.

Mr. Breitzke, Okay, she, my secretary...

Mr. Carmichael, The Capital Outlays.

Mr. Breitzke, Re-introduced it based on last year. You can take it out. But that was last year too. Are you hoping to...

Mrs. Stevenson, Sheila, should it...

Ms. Riley, In last year’s budget it was all zeros. It’s zeroed out in last year’s budget.

Mrs. Stevenson, So she’s just re-entering it this year.

Mr. Breitzke, She must of re-entered it, yes.

Mrs. Stevenson, Where else would it go besides here? Shouldn’t it be out of the commissioners’ budget or where should it be out of?

Mr. Breitzke, No, historically, let me get back to, we, and one other department actually had created, set money aside for data processing equipment. We actually shifted money in line items. Because of the two departments, basically, we were the only ones using the 4000 series, for whatever reasons, that was the one that you chose to eliminate. Apparently, she re-introduced that. I’m sorry, I missed that. I thought it was out again, so.

Mr. Carmichael, Do you want to take it out?

Mr. Breitzke, Well, I’d rather leave it in.

Mr. Poparad, What do you need it for?

Mr. Breitzke, We upgrade our programs pretty regularly. We have a piece of equipment we need to replace, we’re probably one of the departments that’s more intense in using data processing equipment from the mapping standpoint, the surveying standpoint, the drainage standpoint, and that’s what we...

Mr. Carmichael, A different program all together?

Mr. Breitzke, Pardon?

Mr. Carmichael, It’s a different program, and software all together?

Mr. Breitzke, Yes.

Mrs. Knoblock, It was out last year.

Mr. Breitzke, It’s usually the support vehicle that we have. Quite frankly, it’s not enough really to buy the type of equipment we have, but to upgrade some things.

Mrs. Stevenson, If it was out of your budget last year, where did it come from? What did you do in place of?

Mr. Breitzke, I don't know. Well, I’m a little bit embarrassed because I don’t know where she came up with it, because she re-introduced it, and I wasn’t aware of it until this moment. I missed it when I reviewing it, so it’s partly my fault. What was our budget last year then? Was it $2,000 less than that sum total?

Ms. Riley, Last year’s budget was $179,761, Kevin.

Mr. Breitzke, Let’s just take it out, and we’ll work with it.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, we’ll have to back up then. Does the motion agree with that? Who made the motion?

Mrs. Knoblock, They did.

Mr. Carmichael, Who’s they?

Mrs. Knoblock, Bob and Al.

Mr. Carmichael, Does the motion and second agree with that?

Mr. Steele, Sure.

Mr. Poparad, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, we’ll back up, and back that $2,150 out of there, and that makes it a grand total of?

Ms. Riley, $183,761.

Mr. Carmichael, Do I have a motion?

Mr. Poparad moved to amend the 2005 Surveyor 01.06 budget to the amount of $183,761. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

DRAINAGE BOARD 01.26

Mr. Carmichael, The Drainage Board, $45 per day. You estimated that to be a total of $7,114. Is that correct?

Mr. Breitzke, She gave me two copies of the surveyor’s budget, I don't have it.

Mr. Carmichael, Well that’s what the figure is that we are going with.

Mr. Breitzke, If that’s what it says.

Mr. Carmichael, That’s what we’re going by. Training & Education, $315. Travel, $270. Rebates, no, Contractual Services, excuse me, $7,222--we’re always looking for rebates--even. For a grand total of $7,807, making the Total Budget Estimate?

Ms. Riley, $14,921.

Mr. Carmichael, $14,921, is there a motion?

Mrs. Conover moved to approve the 2005 Drainage Board 01.26 budget, in the amount of $14,921. Mrs. Stevenson seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Thank you, Kevin.

Mr. Breitzke, I’ll take it. Sorry about the confusion.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, no problem.

MEMORIAL OPERA HOUSE

Mr. Carmichael, Memorial Opera House.

Mrs. Conover, Ask Bill if he wants me to read it?

Mrs. Stevenson, Do you want Karen to read for you?

Mr. Carmichael, Sure, absolutely, Karen. Go ahead.

Mrs. Conover, Memorial Opera House, good evening.

Holly Seibel, Hello.

Mrs. Conover, You included the $1,000 raises in your budget.

Ms. Seibel, Yes, I did.

Mrs. Conover, And we’re eliminating a Building & Technical Coordinator.

Ms. Seibel, Correct.

Mrs. Conover, So the figure $86,690 is correct.

Ms. Seibel, Yes.

Mrs. Conover, Okay, and we’re paying up to $11.50 an hour for Part-time Technical Person, and up to $8.50 an hour for Part-time Regular.

Ms. Seibel, Yes.

Mrs. Conover, Salaries & Wages, $86,690. Hourly, $40,000. Grand total, $126,690. FICA, $9,500. Medical/Life Insurance, $20,219. PERF, $4,335. Total of $34,054. Personal Services totaling $160,744. Office Supplies, $6,654. Food & Groceries, $1,700. Other Supplies, $13,500. Total of $15,200. Small Tools, excuse me, Building Maintenance, $5,000. For Total Supplies of $26,854. Other Services, Director, Choreographer, $28,900. Telephone, $1,800. Printing other than Office Supplies, $2,800. Photo & Blueprint, $200. Advertising, $17,000. For a total of $20,000. Workers Compensation, $313, total. Water & Sewage, $1,700, same total. Under Repair & Maintenance, Maintenance Agreements, $510. For a total of $510. Rentals, Royalties, $28,338. Costumes, $18,450. All totaling $46,788. Dues & Subscriptions, $400, same total. Total Other Services & Charges, $100,411. Then under the 4000 series we have a line new to this budget, Piano Installment Purchase of $2,458. Bringing the total budget to $290,467.

Mrs. Knoblock, What was your total last year?

Ms. Seibel, I don’t think I have that one with me. Do you have that, Sheila?

Ms. Riley, Last year’s was just salaries and hourly, she didn't have all the other line items.

Ms. Seibel, This is the first year the opera house has had the line items. It’s only been salaries before.

Mrs. Conover, And you are operating on your own?

Ms. Seibel, Yes.

Mrs. Conover, Generating your own.

Ms. Seibel, Yes.

Mr. Steele, Karen, I’d like to comment on that. Last year you had $259,000 income, total.

Ms. Seibel, Yes.

Mr. Steele, And was your, were your expenses about the same last year, as they are this year?

Ms. Seibel, About the same.

Mr. Steele, This year it’s $290,000, so you’ll be $30,000 short, and your budget here is $290,000, and you only have $110,000 right now. How do you, where do you pick up the additional?

Ms. Seibel, What we do is, by putting on additional events is how we generate additional income. Instead of having six big shows, and maybe an occasional concert, we have ten months with events of the year. We have big shows, we’ll have from seven to ten performances, and then the smaller events by performances, to generate all the income we can.

Mr. Steele, I know, but is it enough?

Ms. Seibel, Well, we discovered this year that we haven’t planned enough events, so that’s why we’re planning more for next year.

Mr. Steele, And are you subsidized if you don’t meet budget?

Ms. Seibel, No.

Mr. Steele, So then where do you cut back?

Ms. Seibel, Well we’ve eliminated one position; that helps.

Mr. Steele, But didn’t you have a choreographer?

Ms. Seibel, What we do is, they’re independent contractors who are hired for the event, and they're paid by how many dance numbers there are in that particular show. And we have...

Mr. Steele, But you have a choreographer here for $28,900.

Ms. Seibel, That’s for, etc., that’s for a music director, vocal directors, who are independent contractors, independent directors, choreographers, set designers.

Mr. Steele, So this in inclusive? This is a number of people?

Ms. Seibel, Yes.

Mr. Steele, It still looks like, you have your big season coming up now or not?

Ms. Seibel, Well we still have three of our main shows left this year, and a concert series in October.

Mr. Steele, But if we approve this budget, and you come up short, where do you get the additional money? Do you go to the commissioners, or where do you get the money?

Ms. Seibel, No, we have, our Opera House Foundation is involved with fundraising, and they’re trying to, they have a mailing campaign going on now trying to raise additional funds that if we need it. If we’re short for something they would cover it.

Mr. Steele, The Foundation would cover it 100%.

Ms. Seibel, That’s what we're trying to do. We’re not trying to ask for any money from anybody.

Mr. Steele, But it would be covered, right?

Ms. Seibel, Yes, yes. We’re not asking the County Council as the visitor center to give us that money every year, and it’s been a huge help, and we really still need that.

Mr. Poparad, Not to interrupt you, but does the County pick up the utilities still?

Ms. Seibel, The NIPSCO, yes, but not the water, not the phone.

Mr. Poparad, But we pick up the heat and the lights.

Ms. Seibel, Yes, the commissioners.

Mr. Steele, Does the County pick up the insurance for the employees?

Ms. Seibel, No, we do that.

Mr. Poparad, Yes, it’s in there.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, further questions?

Mrs. Conover, Holly, do you not also through your opera house foundation solicit private grant monies from other foundations?

Ms. Seibel, Yes we do. Yes, and we’re trying to find a grant writer to help with that.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, do I have a motion?

Mr. Poparad moved to approve the 2005 Memorial Opera House 158 budget, in the amount of $290,467. Mr. Steele seconded.

Mrs. Stevenson, Wait a minute. Out of the 4000 Series, what about the piano? I thought we were scratching everything out of the 4000.

Ms. Seibel, I did not know that. I was trying to guess where to put that one--that line item. I don't know what line it should go in.

Mr. Carmichael, Where do you want her to put it?

Ms. Riley, What exactly is it, Holly?

Ms. Seibel, It’s the installment payment to Gratz Piano for the piano we're purchasing.

Ms. Riley, You’re buying it?

Ms. Seibel, Yes, it’s being purchased, yes.

Ms. Riley, You can move that to 3730 if you want, Lease Purchase.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, that won’t make any difference in the budget, it’s just a matter of eliminating the 4000 Series.

Ms. Seibel, Right.

Mr. Poparad, Can I ask a question, Bill?

Mr. Carmichael, Further discussion.

Mr. Poparad, Sheila, would you happen to know what the utilities are for the building. If you can’t find it in the next three seconds, that’s okay.

Ms. Riley, No, I can't find it in the next three seconds.

Mr. Poparad, Don't worry about then. Thank you. It’s not that important, I was just curious.

Ms. Riley, Do you guys want your new bottom lines in those columns, those sections?

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes.

Ms. Riley, Under Rentals, $49,246. Total Services & Charges, $102,869.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, further discussion? Roll call.

Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Ms. Seibel, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Thank you very much.

CORONER 01.07

Mr. Carmichael, Coroner. Hi, Roger.

Roger Kleist, Good evening.

Mrs. Conover, Roger, you did not include the $1,000 raises in your submitted budget.

Mr. Kleist, I missed that memo.

Mr. Poparad, Then you missed a raise.

Mr. Kleist, I can’t believe Doris didn’t have it right underneath my nose, but.

Mr. Carmichael, Make that line item $21,284.

Mrs. Conover, Isn’t it $22,284.

Mr. Carmichael, Excuse me, $22,284. Secretary, $18,916. For a total of?

Ms. Riley, $41,200.

Mr. Kleist, Has there been, considering this is for full-time, has there been any consideration for the part-time?

Mr. Carmichael, What do you have it set at?

Mr. Kleist, Well, the deputies haven’t had any increase as long as I’ve been working here for the Coroner’s Office.

Mr. Carmichael, Well if they’re part-time, if we give them $500, would that be fair?

Mr. Kleist, That would be fair, if it’s acceptable to the Council.

Mr. Carmichael, Does anybody have a problem with that?

Mr. Steele, Bill, are we setting a precedent here for all part-timers? I know Roger works to the bone, but, we have to consider that.
Mr. Carmichael, Well I think...

Mr. Poparad, How did we arrive at their pay?

Mr. Kleist, I really don’t know the history on that. I know the Chief Deputy had the higher pay because...

Mr. Poparad, No, I mean how did we arrive at this figure?

Mr. Kleist, I don't have an answer to that.

Mr. Poparad, These are restored from the cuts from two years ago, correct?

Mr. Kleist, Right. We picked up these figures when I took over the office. Then anything that, like a 5% or a 10% that was given has been built in. But these figures are based on what was present when I took over office. The discrepancy between the first and second deputy is based on a time when we had deputies in the three regions, and the deputy who worked in the Kouts area handled the coroner calls down south. Well there aren’t, weren’t as many. Now with the way I have it established, the deputies take turns being on call, and they respond throughout the county. So I would like to be able to even the first and second deputy also. That would be an addition of $139 to the Second Deputy, and I would be happy to have that come out of my $1,000.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, I don't think we want to set that kind of precedent.

Mr. Poparad, No, no, we're not going to do that.

Mr. Kleist, Well I'm just offering.

Mr. Carmichael, That we appreciate, but you don’t want to, we’re not going backwards.

Mr. Poparad, Well what’s the difference between the chief deputy and the first deputy?

Mr. Kleist, The Chief Deputy is the person who is, when I’m not available, on vacation, at my EMS job, if something really goes awry, they are then responsible f