PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL
April 27, 2004

The Porter County Council met on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 7:00 p.m. in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana - Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Members present were Karen Conover, Carole Knoblock, Robert Poparad, John Ruge, Al Steele, Rita Stevenson, and President William Carmichael. Also present was Auditor Sandra Vuko, Sheila Riley, Becky Phillips, Judy Rubens, Jan Noll, and Attorney David Hollenbeck, who was not present at roll call.

The meeting was called to order with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Mr. Carmichael, Our attorney is going to be a little bit late today, so we'll have to do without him for about 30 minutes. Dave will be here eventually.

FIRST READING

At this time, Mrs. Vuko read the Notice to Taxpayers.

CUSTOM MACHINING - COMPLIANCE WITH STATEMENT OF BENEFITS

Mr. Carmichael, I've changed the order of the agenda here for a few minutes to accommodate a gentleman from Custom Machining that has a compliance statement. Would you like to come forward on that? Jan, is there a compliance statement in my packet?

Ms. Noll, I'm sorry, yes, sir, there is, it should be the first one in your book, Bill.

Mr. Carmichael, Welcome.

Jack Thompson, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Glad to have you here. How many years have you been on the tax abatement?

Mr. Thompson, This is the third year.

Mr. Carmichael, Third year.

Mr. Thompson, It will be the third year.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, it shows here that you have five employees in the manager or supervisory capacity; you have three technicians; one clerical; nine craftsmen; nine operative skills. You have a total of 27. Is that right?

Mr. Thompson, That's what we had when we applied for the tax abatement.

Mrs. Knoblock, 42

Mr. Carmichael, You currently have hired 16?

Mr. Thompson, Now I'm at about 44.

Mr. Carmichael, You now have about 44 employees?

Mr. Thompson, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, It looks like you're making good progress.

Mr. Thompson, We've been fortunate.

Mr. Carmichael, Is there anything you want to say to the Board? Does the Board have any questions of this request for the extension, for the compliance statement?

Mrs. Knoblock, Yes. How many of your employees that you hired are from Porter County?

Mr. Thompson, There are 27 from Porter County; 17 from out of the county.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Are there any other questions concerning this request? If not, I will entertain a motion.

Mr. Poparad moved to approve the Compliance with Statement of Benefits submitted by Custom Machining. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mr. Carmichael, Do you need a signed copy of that?

Mr. Thompson, Yes I do. I need to submit it to the state. Do I get that from Jan?

Mr. Carmichael, Pardon?

Mr. Thompson Do I get that from Jan eventually?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, you can get it from Jan.

Mr. Thompson, Okay, thank you.

PROSECUTOR IV-D 01.35
144 Form - Request tabled until May 25, 2004
Administrative Assistant from $0 to $22,295
Caseworker from $0 to $19,699
Caseworker/Clerical from $0 to $19,669
Additional Appropriation - Request tabled until May 25, 2004
$61,693 to 1110 Salaries

Mr. Carmichael, The second order of business. Prosecutor Deferral. Good evening.

James Douglas, Hi. I'd like to introduce to you my Chief Deputy, Brian Gensel, who is here with me today, and also Lois Holiday, who is the Director of the IV-D program. They're with the funds we are involved with today. And I note, if I may, we have a request for the 135 account, which I think is general tax money, and we talked with Mr. Hollenbeck, yesterday, and I understand that the state hasn't given approval to make anything. So that being the case, the request for the 135 account, I would, if appropriate, I would like to table that, and address it next month. If that's…

Mr. Carmichael, Just withdraw it from the agenda.

Mr. Douglas, Withdraw it, and then just, you know.

Mr. Carmichael, And reapply next month.

Mr. Douglas, Well I don't, the idea is, if you, I was told and I don't know if it's true, but if you table it we don't have to re-advertise it.

Mr. Carmichael, Did you get that from Hollenbeck?

Brian Gensel, Yes, I talked with Dave last week. I think that that's the proceeding.

Mr. Carmichael, Whatever does the trick.

Mr. Douglas, Okay.

Mr. Carmichael, We'll table it for now.

Mr. Douglas, Thanks.

Mr. Gensel, Thank you.

PROSECUTOR DEFERRAL 12.08
Additional Appropriation
$5,000 to 4510 Data Processing Equipment

PROSECUTOR IV-D 182
Additional Appropriation
$12,000 to 4510 Data Processing Equipment

Mr. Douglas, With regards to the other two requests, I believe we can address those tonight, if that's the Board's desire. If I could, I'd like to have Brian address those because that's the computer stuff, is more his line than mine.

Mr. Gensel, As we indicated, the requests, there are two requests for some computer funds for the prosecutor's office, the criminal portion of the prosecutor's office. We are requesting an additional $5,000 from the 12.08 money that is already in existence, as a result of the infraction deferral fund.I have spoken with Sharon Lippens. She's here tonight, and I believe she's also provided a letter to the Council.
This is, we got some money in previous months, and in evaluating our current needs, we think that another $5,000 gets done what we need to get done now as far as equipment and computers. The old hardware is starting to go out on us. The monitors are starting to go out. We just need to upgrade some of our current equipment. She's indicated, and I think she's here if you need to ask her the fact if this is a reasonable request and something that's necessary. For the request…

Mr. Douglas, Can't you do them individual?

Mr. Carmichael, Would you like to take the individually or as a whole?

Mrs. Stevenson, A whole.

Mr. Carmichael, Whole. Okay, proceed.

Mr. Gensel, As far as the 182 account in the Prosecutor's IV-D fund, as we listed as a reason for the additional appropriation, the State is removing the dedicated ISETS terminals that they have provided for a number of years since the institution of the ISETS system. And since they are taking their hardware back, we are going to have to replace that to do the same work. And again, this is money that is discretionary money, it's already in the IV-D fund--the incentive funds--and in after consulting with data processing, we think that the $12,000 figure will get us where we need to go as far as the hardware to replace the ISETS systems, as well as upgrade some of the stuff that we have now.

Mr. Carmichael, Do you have a balance in that account currently?

Mr. Gensel, Yes.

Ms. Riley, Fund 182, I have $70,073.

Mr. Carmichael, In the 12.08?

Ms. Riley, $405,038.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, there's two requests there for the additionals, what's the Council's pleasure?

Mrs. Conover moved grant the requests for additional appropriations submitted by Prosecutor Deferral 12.08, $5,000 to 4510 Data Processing Equipment; and Prosecutor IV-D 182, $12,000 to 4510 Data Processing Equipment. Mr. Poparad seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, Do we have some questions?

Mr. Poparad, Yes. This $12,000, is that a hard number or is that, are you sure on that?

Mr. Gensel, We think that the $12,000 will accomplish what we need. I'm not, I don't know, we've got a bid for $12,000 and zero cents, but I, that is the number that we feel would be the high end of what it is that we need. Again, if it turns out that's the not the case, then in the months to come, we may ask for some more money. But we think for now that will accomplish what we need to accomplish.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, I don't see a letter from Sharon. I see the one for the; shouldn't there be two letters from Sharon? Unless I'm missing it.

Sharon Lippens, The one letters addresses them both. If you read at the beginning, it says that they were looking for all the stuff.

Mr. Poparad, Yes, we're looking at like $2,100 or $2,500.

Mrs. Lippens, I beg your pardon?

Mr. Poparad, I'm looking at $2,500 in round numbers.

Mrs. Lippens, I'm not sure where $2,500 comes from.

Mr. Poparad, Between $2,150 and $450 is $2,600, then the $186.

Mr. Gensel, That's per unit, and then we submitted a…

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Gensel, Number that we think we need.

Mr. Poparad, Okay. Alright.

Mr. Gensel, That's…

Mr. Poparad, Per unit. Okay, I'm done.

Mr. Carmichael, Any further questions? John.

Mr. Ruge, Do these funds come from the State, reimbursed from the State?

Mr. Douglas, They do not come from the State. They're fees. The 182 comes from the State, as a, how do you say, an incentive payment that they pay every year, and that's the, we have money in the account. The other, the 12.08 account comes from traffic deferral fees, office generated. I think they are not tax dollars.

Mr. Ruge, Thank, thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Any further questions? Since these are additionals, I will indicate we need a roll call vote.

Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Motion carries. Your next item?

Mr. Douglas, Thank you very much.

Mr. Gensel, Thank you.

Mrs. Conover, Can I just add a word for Brian and Jim. A couple of weeks ago, I'd like to say I had the pleasure, but the subject matter wasn't a pleasure. You were both in attendance at Rotary, and I was invited to attend. Bob Taylor, our narcotics coordinator and your investigator, spoke; you could've heard a pin drop in the room. We have one very dedicated, very tireless working employee of our county, and he's trying really, really hard to make a dent in our growing drug problem. I just wanted it on the record. We have a wonderful employee in Mr. Taylor.

Mr. Douglas, Thank you, and I'll certainly relay that to him. Thanks again.

PARKS OPERATING 127
Additional Appropriation
$300 to 2250 Other Supplies
$670 to 3310 Printing other than Office Supplies
$1,000 to 3710 Equipment Rental
$1,000 to 3950 Contractual Services

Mr. Carmichael, Parks Operating.

Ed Melendez, Good evening.

Mr. Carmichael, Ed, how are you?

Mr. Melendez, Just fine.

Mr. Carmichael, Good.

Mr. Melendez, We have an additional in the 127 account. This is the third payment for 2004 from the tourism grant. This is not general fund money. What we have in the line items is the 127.85 for $300 for the 2250 account, and that's Other Supplies. We have $670 into 3310, which is Printing. $1,000 into the 3710, which is Equipment Rental. And $1,000 into the 3950, which is Contractual Services. This will be used for the Kite and Gaelic supplies, printing, rentals and contractual services.

Mr. Carmichael, Thank you. Are there any questions? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion.

Mr. Poparad moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Parks Operating 127, $300 to 2250 Other Supplies, $670 to 3310 Printing other than Office Supplies, $1,000 to 3710 Equipment Rental, and $1,000 to 3950 Contractual Services. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, Ed.

Mr. Melendez, Thank you. If I could have a minute of your time. Just a reminder, this weekend we have our 7th Annual Colonel Murray Memorial Kite-Fest, May 1st at Sunset Hill Park. The times are from 11:00 to 5:00 p.m. It's a great opportunity for the kids, parents, grandparents, friends, neighbors to get together. This year we also have a hacky-sack world champion coming in, so if you're wondering what hacky-sack is, come out and get a chance to play with that. Also too, we're exploring flight with our naturalist, so they're giving you some of the ideas onto that, as well as the wagon rides and kid rides too.

Mr. Carmichael, Are you guaranteeing a 10 mile an hour breeze. Is that what you are guaranteeing.

Mr. Melendez, I'm guaranteeing 83 degree weather, I didn't say where though. Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Thank you.

HEALTH 05.95
Transfer
$250 from 3330 Photo & Blueprint to 4410 Office Equipment over $100
$250 from 3330 Photo & Blueprint to 4510 Data Processing Equipment
$185 from 3330 Photo & Blueprint to 2110 Office Supplies

Mr. Carmichael, The Health Department. Keith, how are you doing?

Keith Letta, Good. I've got a couple of things here to pass out. That first letter from the State is a little bit of housekeeping from last month. There was some valid, very valid concerns raised by this council concerning, having this bioterrorism coordinator as a full-time employee, and the effects on the insurance program. So we did some investigating with the director at the state, and he has returned that to me as an answer, so that we may, in fact, have the position a contractual position, as opposed to a full-time employee.
So basically, a lot of transfers tonight are shifting what we put into full-time and benefits last month, and we are shifting it to Contractual Services tonight with your approval. So that letter, does, I think it should clarify some of the questions that this council had, and some of the questions that we had. So if you have any questions on that.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, you're requesting from the 05 Fund, $250 from 3330 Photos to account 4410 Office Equipment over $100. In the 05 account, $250 from 3330, titled Photos, to account 4510 Data Processing Equipment for a printer. $185 from 3330 Photos to account 2110 Office Supplies. Is there any questions concerning this request? If not, I will entertain a motion.

Mr. Steele moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Health 05.95, $250 from 3330 Photo & Blueprint to 4410 Office Equipment over $100, $250 from 3330 Photo & Blueprint to 4510 Data Processing Equipment, and $185 from 3330 Photo & Blueprint to 2110 Office Supplies. Mr. Ruge seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

HEALTH MAINTENANCE 14
Transfer
$4,000 from 2410 Medical Supplies to 3130 Training & Education

Mr. Carmichael, Health Maintenance 14, transfer of $4,000 from Medical Supplies to Training & Education. Okay, shall we take that as an individual request, or do you want to take the transfers all at once.

Ms. Noll, They're different funds.

Mr. Poparad, Take this one.

Mr. Carmichael, It's the 14 Fund, and the 238 Fund, so out of the 14 Fund he's asking for $4,000 from Medical Supplies to Training & Education. What is the Council's pleasure?

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Health Maintenance 14, $4,000 from 2410 Medical Supplies to 3130 Training & Education. Mrs. Stevenson seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, Further discussion?

Mr. Poparad, Yes, I have a question. Keith, what's this for?

Mr. Letta, This is for the annual immunization conference, which this year is in Nashville that our nurses attend.

Mr. Poparad, How many are going for 4,000-bucks?

Mr. Letta, Six.

Mr. Ruge, What does this training consist of? Is it down in Indianapolis?

Mr. Letta, Nashville.

Mr. Ruge, What?

Mr. Letta, Nashville.

Mr. Ruge, Oh my.

Mr. Letta, This is for, this a national conference that's held every year. We basically rotate our nurses that go to this so they keep updated on the latest and current techniques or problems in the immunization program. This, the first item you looked at tonight--Health 05--that transfer, that was the only item tonight from the general fund. Everything else is out of our state funds; that's including this particular transfer.

Mr. Poparad, I agree with the analogy, I question sending six people to a conference when they're all going to be taught the same thing. Couldn't you send two, and they come back and tell the other four?

Mr. Letta, Well I have…

Mr. Poparad, I mean if, I guess my analogy is, if it's required that they attend, and I'm not saying it's not, then they all should go. If you can pick six out of, how many do you have?

Mr. Letta, Well we probably have better, we probably, 14 with the part-time people.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, then if six can go, then why don't 14 go? I mean you can't, do you see what I'm saying? I just question the sending of six.

Mr. Letta, Well we do have some staff.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Letta, We have some new staff members that have yet, that have not attended one. So that was one of the priorities for this year.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, so then out of the six, how many is that?

Mr. Letta, I think two.

Mr. Carmichael, The question, Bob, is who would man the ship while they're all gone.

Mr. Poparad, Well okay, then we can't send everybody. So then let's send two, and they can come back and teach the rest.

Mr. Carmichael, Well he's going to send 50% or less.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, yes, I know, I'm just, it's, whatever.

Mrs. Conover, Keith, do you not rotate who you send to the conferences?

Mr. Letta, Yes.

Mrs. Conover, Like every other year?

Mr. Letta, Yes, this year is a little bit different because we do have a couple of people that have not attended one as of yet. So that's…

Mr. Poparad, No, I'm not adverse to them going. I just question the, who, if it's required training or we think it's required training, then they need to be brought up to speed on it, and they all need to go.

Mr. Letta, Right. We have two new people, and we also have the individual that has taken over the immunization program, when the nurse that was handling that left. She has not been to one yet either, so she definitely needs to go since it's her program.

Mr. Poparad, I'm done.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. We have a motion for adoption. You made the motion already, no there's motion that's been made. We need a motion and a second.

Ms. Noll, Bill, I have Karen and Rita.
Mrs. Stevenson, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh you both did it?

Mrs. Stevenson, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Alright then, any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor of the motion, answer by the usual sign of aye.

Motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

HEALTH BIOTERRORISM 238
Transfer
$24,000 from 1110 Salaries to 3950 Contractual Services
$2,700 from 1210 FICA to 3950 Contractual Services
$9,300 from 1220 Medical/Life Insurance to 3950 Contractual Services
$1,900 from 1230 PERF to 3950 Contractual Services
$2,000 from 3130 Training & Education to 3950 Contractual Services
$1,000 from 4510 Data Processing Equipment to 3740 Land & Buildings
Additional Appropriation
$10,000 to 3950 Contractual Services
$900 to 3340 Advertising
$45,000 to 3950 Contractual Services

Mr. Carmichael, Bioterrorism 238, transfer, $24,000 from Salaries to Contractual Services. $2,700 from FICA to Contractual Services. $9,300 from Medical/Life Insurance to Contractual Services. In other words, you're transferring that money we had appropriated last month.

Mr. Letta, Yes. You have one there at the end, $19,000 from 1230 to Contractual.

Mr. Carmichael, Do you have it on yours? I don't see it.

Mr. Letta, It's on the second page of your agenda.

Mrs. Knoblock, 19-hundred, you mean. You said…

Mr. Letta, 1,900, did I say thousand?

Mrs. Knoblock, Yes.

Mr. Letta, Oh, I'm sorry.

Mr. Carmichael, You said 19,000, and I can't find 19,000 here.

Mr. Letta, No, 1,900. As I indicated before, those are the items--the specific items--we were going with, with a, as a full-time county employee. As I indicated, we're shifting those--all those monies--into contractual, because the State has told us we may do that.

Mr. Carmichael, These are all 238 funds.

Mr. Letta, Correct, that…

Mr. Carmichael, You're asking for $1,900 from PERF to Contractual. You're asking for $2,000 from Training & Education to Contractual Services. And you're asking for $1,000 from Data Processing Equipment to Land & Buildings. Is that correct?

Mr. Letta, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, Is the motion and the second in agreement with that?

Mrs. Conover, We need to make a motion.

Mr. Carmichael, I'll entertain a motion at this time.

Mr. Poparad moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Health Bioterrorism 238, $24,000 from 1110 Salaries to 3950 Contractual Services, $2,700 from 1210 FICA to 3950 Contractual Services, $9,300 from 1220 Medical/Life Insurance to 3950 Contractual Services, $1,900 from 1230 PERF to 3950 Contractual Services, $2,000 from 3130 Training & Education to 3950 Contractual Services, and $1,000 from 4510 Data Processing Equipment to 3740 Land & Buildings. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Carmichael, You have an additional. Where's this coming from, Keith?

Mr. Letta, That is also in the Bioterrorism, and the $10,000, as you may recall last month, you did an emergency transfer for us out of that fund, because one of the sheets were deleted and didn't get on the agenda. So this is to put that $10,000 back into Contractual. It's to put $45,000 into Contractual for the other position, and then the Advertising was the money spent to advertise for the position, so we didn't have to take that out of the commissioners' budget, as we usually do. That was also provided by the bioterrorism grant. But that ten is to replace the ten that we borrowed last month.

Mr. Carmichael, Are there any questions concerning this request? Do I have a motion?

Mr. Poparad moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Health Bioterrorism 238, $10,000 to 3950 Contractual Services, $900 to 3340 Advertising, and $45,000 to 3950 Contractual Services. Mr. Poparad seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Letta, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, All set?

Mr. Letta, Did that letter help you guys out a little bit?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Steele, Yes.

Mrs. Knoblock, Yes.

Mrs. Conover, Yes, thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, we appreciate your follow up on that, Keith.

Mr. Steele, Thanks, Keith.

Mr. Letta, Very good.

Mr. Carmichael, Very much. We got it in an email also. Thank you.

Mr. Letta, Thank you.

WESTCHESTER TOWNSHIP 01.12
144 Form - Request Denied
3rd Deputy from $0 to $18,213
Additional Appropriation - Request Denied
$18,213 to 1110 Salaries

Mr. Carmichael, Westchester Township. Hi, Candy.

Ms. Crone, Hi.

Mr. Carmichael, How are you?

Ms. Crone, Good.
Mr. Carmichael, Good. Your request is for a 3rd Deputy to $18,213, and salary.

Ms. Crone, Yes, I'm asking for the Council to reinstate a deputy that I lost during the cuts when we took our 10% cuts. It was the deputy that was in my office previously, the position, and I had to cut that.

Mr. Carmichael, In my conference with you, you had indicated some problems you are having. Would you relay those to the County Council, so they understand where you are, and what the situation is with Westchester Township assessing?

Ms. Crone, Well, I know that we've gotten by this, but I really don't like to do my job by just getting by. I like to be a little more thorough, and everything that we've done lately, we've had to do with a lick and a promise, because we just don't have the time or the staff to be able to do what we are supposed to do in depth. We should be doing ratio studies. We should be verifying sales. We just recently got all our files put into file cabinets that we had for a month, since the last council meeting.
It's just been very difficult to get through the appeals, and I know that those will not last forever, but with the phones ringing, people coming, there's just myself and two deputies to handle the load. I've got one deputy that's going to have to do the data entry for ISG that's going to be coming online for '04, pay '05, and that's a very large job. It's going to be real hard for her to accomplish that with the interruptions that take place throughout the day; no one else to cover the phones and the front desk.
As a matter of fact, we're thinking of taking some time and closing to just try to handle the appeals, because it's very hard to concentrate on the appeals--that actually are serious--when you have to take a phone call or take care of a customer at the front desk, take the garbage out, those kinds of things. You know, we, it's just has gotten to the point where that third body is really needed. We need someone to help cover the load, and to be able to learn everything that we know, and not just, I know that part-time is a concern, that you like to think we can do it with part-time, but we have to have certifications, and we feel that our employees need to have a certain level of training also. It's hard to find someone to be committed to a part-time job as they would be to a full-time job, and to undertake all the training that's needed. I don't know if you have any questions.

Mr. Carmichael, How many appeals have you heard so far?

Ms. Crone, I've probably gone through maybe 100.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Ms. Crone, And I've got probably…

Mr. Carmichael, Because I had a citizen stop me today who said he had an appointment coming up very shortly. He's currently on the list.

Ms. Crone, I might have called him.

Mr. Carmichael, It was Mr…

Ms. Crone, I've been trying to call, and then with personal property, I've been taking one day out of the week to tally personal property, the forms that are coming in. Then some days doing appeals. I just have to do certain, a certain thing each day, and I can't just concentrate on one thing like I need to.

Mrs. Conover, Candy, you had indicated that you've been through, to this point, 100 appeals, and you have 1,000 to go. What is the volume, the traffic to your office, phone calls? Could you approximate that?

Ms. Crone, That, that's really hard because it fluctuates from day to day.

Mrs. Conover, What's a terrible day?

Ms. Crone, A terrible day is--oh gosh--continuous phone calls, maybe every 15 minutes, the phone calling; maybe several people in the lobby at a time with the phone ringing at the same time; during lunches it gets to be hectic for one person to be there. We try to alternate lunches so that we can stay open. Sometimes you're there, and you have two or three people in the lobby, and the phone's ringing at the same time, and you may have to put the phone on the answering machine, so you'll be able to take care of the people in the lobby.

Mrs. Conover, And it's an answer that you can't answer in a sentence or two. It's something that has to be researched and whatnot with your visitors and phone calls.

Ms. Crone, That's right. Sometimes they want to look at the plat book or sometimes they need help filling out their personal property return, which entails getting out their one from the previous year, going over it with them, making sure their figures are correct. It isn't just something that can take a few seconds. A lot of times it does take quite a while to sit down with them and go over it.

Mr. Steele, Candy, I understand all your concerns and your problems, and I think the assessors are more overburdened than any department in the administration building. But the prosecutor withdrew his request for a 144, and on very good grounds. And the law, or the way this state situation is now with the County, we really can't appropriate these monies. So we appreciate your presentation, but we cannot give you this money, as far as I'm concerned.

Ms. Crone, Well, I would appreciate it if you would consider it until the time that those things are approved.

Mr. Steele, And I think we certainly will consider it, but we just can't do it.

Mr. Carmichael, Al, concerning your question or your concern there, I did meet with Kurt from the State Board of Accounts, and asked him if, you know, we did some appropriations a while back, I said: Do we have to go back through the advertising and processing and hearing those things again; and he said: No, when your budget or rate is set, and you have a budget, he said those will go through automatically; so he said you do whatever you want to do, and if you pass it, then it will be okay with the State once they have approved our budget and rate. So that's the answer to that question. Candy had asked me about that earlier, and I told her the same thing.

Mr. Poparad, Could I ask a question? You referenced ISG, the data entry, and the appeals.

Ms. Crone, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, That can't be done, and I'm back to part-time thing. Can that be done with part-time? Because that's a finite amount of work that's going to disappear sometime.

Ms. Crone, Well what do you mean by what can be done with part-time?

Mr. Poparad, Well, can you rearrange things so that full-timers can do the ISG data entry, let's say. Because that's where the training is required or the experience, and have your part-timer--the part-time worker--to answer the phone, do basic…

Ms. Crone, Well a part-timer…

Mr. Poparad, Because, and the analogy I'm using is, when ISG is entered into your system, that process is done; you're not going to do that continuously. When the appeals are done, they're done. So I guess I question, I'm not saying you don't need help. I'm well aware of what you're going through, I've been down there a lot. But I'm just adverse to putting on a full-time employee for a temporary problem--the ISG and the…

At this point, Mr. Hollenbeck joined the meeting.

Ms. Crone, Well…

Mr. Poparad, The whole reassessment issue, and I'm going to say the exact same thing to Shirley when she comes up here too. So, I mean if you wanted part-time, I could go with that. But I've got to be honest, because once all this work is done, whenever that is; okay, now we have another full-timer that we have, that's all.

Ms. Crone, Well the work.

Mr. Carmichael, Bob, have you driven down 1050 North recently?

Mr. Poparad, Yes, Bill, I drive all over. Okay? So…

Mr. Carmichael, Do you realize she has 1,000 homes that have not been assessed?

Mr. Poparad, Well you know what, Bill, I think this reassessment's been going on for what, close to four years now. I think most of them homes, they weren't built last week. So I guess…

Mr. Carmichael, They are being built last week.

Mr. Poparad, Correct, but a lot of them have been there. It's not like all this stuff has popped up.

Mr. Carmichael, Those are all brand new ones.

Mr. Poparad, Right.

Ms. Crone, It's an ongoing thing.

Mr. Poparad, I agree with that.

Ms. Crone, And you realize that, Bob. It's not something that we're going to go in there tomorrow, and then we're going to the job and get done. This is an on-going, day to day thing.

Mr. Poparad, Correct.

Ms. Crone, For us to do the data collection, someone is going to have to be gone out of my office, and that person isn't, I can't just grab somebody off the street, they have to be trained to a certain level to be able to know what to pick up.
As far as the data entry, if we do work someone part-time in there, even when we do have someone part-time in there, they are never able to answer all of the questions. So the full-time people always have to break off what they're doing to go and help; to look up things; to help them with questions that people have. People don't come in our office just to ask a simple question. If they come in, they've got something serious on their mind that they need an answer that a lot of times, and most times, that takes…

Mr. Poparad, Right. I'm not making light of what you do in your office. I am just wondering, could we fill some part-time people at this to get you over the hump? That's all I'm asking. Now…

Ms. Crone, And I appreciate it.

Mr. Poparad, Now in government their first answer is, no, we need full-time; out there in that private sector, they hire two or three part-timers, they get the work done, they let them go. We don't think that way in this building, and I understand there's a whole big, the whole issue, but that's my problem.

Ms. Crone, Well I…

Mr. Poparad, That's all I'm saying.

Ms. Crone, I had hoped that you could consider my request, and not lump me together with a lot of other offices that you've had experiences with.

Mr. Poparad, No, I'm not saying your office, I'm saying government in general.

Ms. Crone, Okay.

Mr. Poparad, Government in general does not look at a workload situation from a part-time perspective. They always look at it from a full-time perspective. We have to get full-timers in here; when part-timers can solve the problem, and then when the work is done, part-timers leave. We don't, this building doesn't operate under that premise, that's all I'm saying.

Mr. Poparad moved to deny the requests submitted by Westchester Township, 144 Form, 3rd Deputy from $0 to $18,213, and the additional appropriation of $18,213 to 1110 Salaries. Mr. Steele seconded.

Mrs. Knoblock, Can I say something?

Mr. Ruge, What's the motion?

Mrs. Conover, Bill.

Mr. Steele, The motion is to deny the request for the additional person.

Mr. Carmichael, A motion and a second has been made to deny the requests. Does anyone have a question?

Mrs. Knoblock, Yes, I do.

Mr. Carmichael, Carole.

Mrs. Knoblock, I don't have a question, I've just got a statement to make. You don't spend money out of your checkbook unless it's in there, and I think we should wait until the State okays this, and then let's go forward. That's my opinion.

Mrs. Conover, If I might add, we just, as Al had indicated, tabled the request for the prosecutor under general fund money, so he does not have to advertise again. If we tabled her request, she wouldn't have to advertise it again?

Mr. Hollenbeck, She does not have to advertise it…

Mrs. Conover, And then…

Mr. Hollenbeck, As long as you are continuing with the date certain.

Mrs. Conover, To continue it to our next meeting.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. John.

Mr. Ruge, Is this, couldn't this money come out of extra help? Couldn't, does she have enough in extra help to do this 3rd Deputy?

Ms. Crone, I have some in…

Mr. Ruge, What?

Ms. Crone, I have some money in hourly, but it's not enough to keep someone on a continuous basis throughout the year. It's a, and usually that goes for data collection people, and that type of thing.

Mr. Ruge, Is this person now being paid as extra help?

Ms. Crone, I don't have someone right now to do the job.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay?

Mr. Ruge, Do you feel it's necessary for the efficient operation of your office?

Ms. Crone, Yes I do.

Mr. Ruge, I'm not going to deny the request.
Mr. Carmichael, Bob.

Mr. Poparad, What?

Mr. Ruge, I'm not going to vote to deny this.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay. Bob, did you have…

Mr. Poparad, No.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh, I though you had a…

Mr. Poparad, I've got a motion to deny, so if it goes through then she has to re-advertise it if she wants to come back. The motion is not to table this request. And I've got to be honest, Candy, you know, if you would have come out here looking for part-time help, $20,000 in part-time, I'd bend over backwards. But all I hear from everybody is full-time, full-time, and that's where I'm coming from.

Ms. Crone, Well…

Mr. Poparad, And the motion is to deny the request, Bill.

Ms. Crone, So in other words, either I have to say to table it or let you vote on it? Is that what the question is? Is that it?

Mr. Carmichael, We'll have to vote on it.

Ms. Crone, Okay.

Mr. Hollenbeck, There's a motion and a second to deny it, so that takes precedent.

Ms. Crone, Okay.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, a yes vote means you agree with the motion to deny the request. And a no vote means you do agree with the motion. Since this is an additional, we'll have a roll call.

Motion carried on the following roll call vote:

Ruge-NoSteele-Yes
Stevenson-YesCarmichael-No
Conover-NoKnoblock-Yes
Poparad-Yes

Mrs. Vuko, It's 4 to 3.

Mr. Carmichael, The motion is 4 to 3, motion carries to deny the requests. You'll have to resubmit.

Mr. Poparad, For part-time, come back for part-time.

Mr. Carmichael, Can we take a five-minute break at this point? Is that alright?

Mr. Steele, Sure.

Mr. Carmichael, We'll take a five-minute recess.

At this time, there was a five-minute break.

ASSESSOR REASSESSMENT 08.09
Transfer
$3,000 from 3730 Lease Purchase to 4510 Data Processing Equipment
$20,000 from 3730 Lease Purchase to 3120 Consultants
$5,000 from 3730 Lease Purchase to 1120 Hourly
144 Form - Request tabled until May 25, 2004
Data Entry Clerk from $0 to $20,335
Additional Appropriation - Request tabled until May 25, 2004
$20,335 to 1110 Salaries
$1,556 to 1210 FICA
$1,068 to 1230 PERF
$35,000 to 3950 Contractual Services

Mr. Carmichael, We'll call our meeting back to order. Our next item of business is the Assessor on reassessment.

Shirley LaFever, Good evening.

Mr. Carmichael, Good evening, Shirley, John.

John Scott, Gentleman, ladies.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, what's your request here, Shirley, the $3,000 from Lease Purchase to Data Processing.

Mrs. LaFever, Yes, it's to purchase a bigger server for the Portage Township assessor's office; that's why John's here tonight. You should have a letter from data processing there. She's okayed this. This is to hopefully to give them more speed in Portage. We don't know for sure if it's going to work or not, but we're going to try it, and I think we've got a letter from Sharon that says it's a band-aid fix, but it's something that we need to try to see if we can help Portage improve their speed with their software program.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mrs. LaFever, So I'm asking for John, that's why he's here tonight. But it's coming out of the reassessment money, that's why I'm here. John.

Mr. Scott, Yes, we've met with the company, and they said that they believe, and so does data, from what their experiences were with going to other counties, and seeing how their computer systems were working under Plexis, that if they put a bigger server in, it would shake, our server right now, it would give us 50 to 60% more speed, and we really need it. We just, I mean we're over 3,000 parcels, that new stuff that's coming into our office, you know, new permits and stuff, and some of them are pretty big. I mean you get like the Lowe's store, and some of those, it's, that's, so.

Mr. Carmichael, How does your data get to the assessor's office?

Mr. Scott, Through that computer.

Mr. Carmichael, And that's through the…

Mr. Scott, In fact, that computer is not going to be put in my office, it's going to be put in her office. It's just a larger one to accept all of the work that we send to it.

Mr. Carmichael, And that comes through the microwave.

Mr. Scott, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mr. Steele, John, why do you have a microwave up there when all the others are land lines? What's the reason for that?

Mr. Scott, Well, they said if we do, I guess it's a DSL, you know, a line, a direct line in, that it's more expensive to do it that way, and they said that, data processing said that this microwave is the fastest way to get it here. Now when I talked to data processing, they said that we have first call, because of the workload that we have, we have first call on anything that goes out of, over that microwave to the County. I mean the prosecutor's, and the judge's, and everybody else have to wait until we go into it first. That's what they told me.

Mr. Carmichael, They all use the same system.

Mr. Scott, Yes, well it goes over the same, you know, the same wave-length.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mrs. Conover, Sharon, did you have anything to add to this, on the DSL?

Mrs. Lippens, Outside of my letter, just the DSL option is, it's not more expensive, but to give you a relation, the speed that they have right now with the microwave is 45-megabit. So if you think of the speed as 45, a DSL connection is 1.5.

Mrs. Conover, And the cost is the same.

Mrs. Lippens, No, the cost is significantly less. But you have one, a DSL line is not made to handle the volume that they have at the Portage complex, which is the entire clerk's office, the prosecutor's, adult probation, juvenile probation, the two courts. The DSL is not an option there even at cost, and the speed is so much lower. When he said 1.5 versus 45, it's not a viable option. It's really meant for one and one for a very small office, like a doctor's office where they have two or three computers. It's not meant for volume.

Mrs. Conover, Thank you.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mr. Ruge, This money, this money in your reassessment budget.

Mrs. LaFever, Yes, John.

Mr. Steele moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Assessor Reassessment 08.09, $3,000 from 3730 Lease Purchase to 4510 Data Processing Equipment.

Mr. Ruge, They, for the rental property they need more information and technique from the new position? The $20,000 new position?

Mrs. LaFever, That's a different issue.

Mr. Ruge, They need…

Mr. Steele, That's next, John.

Mr. Carmichael, That's the second issue.

Mr. Ruge, They need to do something.

Mr. Carmichael, The first issue, John, is the $3,000 for the equipment changeover.

Mr. Ruge, Oh, we're not…

Mr. Carmichael, The motion has been…

Mr. Ruge, We're not up to the $20,000?

Mr. Carmichael, Not yet. The motion has been made, is there a second?

Mr. Poparad seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, A motion and a second. Is there further discussion? Those in favor of the transfer of $3,000 from Lease Purchase to Data Processing Equipment, answer by the usual sign of aye.

Motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Carmichael, The second request is for $20,000 from Lease Purchase to Consultants. Would you explain that to us, Shirley, what you need to have done there?

Mrs. LaFever, I think most of you received a letter from me. This is to hire a consultant, which Frank is here tonight from the Nexus Group, and this is for the township assessors for their preliminary hearing. We have over 300 parcels that's commercial and rental units it Porter County. The assessors, we've got appeals, over 300 appeals, and the township assessors want someone with additional knowledge to help them in these pre-hearing conferences.
So they've asked me to enter into a contract with Nexus Group to help them to resolve these, hopefully, the pre-hearing conference. Each time, an assessor must hold a pre-hearing conference, and if it can be resolved there, it does not need to go to the PTABOA. They do not have enough training yet to be able to, know enough information about this income approach or the cost approach or the comparable approach. So Frank will explain a little more to the board about what he's going to do in his group if the contract is approved tonight, so.

Mr. Carmichael, Well I read the State's rules on this, and I'll tell you, it takes a road scholar to figure that one out.

Mrs. LaFever, Yes it does, and we have had…

Mr. Carmichael, If you can figure that one out…

Mrs. LaFever, Very little training in it as of today.

Mr. Carmichael, You're pretty smart.

Mr. Poparad, I guess the question I'm asking, or going to ask, how were they assessed in this reassessment? Was it income? Market price? Or cost?

John Scott, They have the option of all three.

Mrs. LaFever, No, John, let Frank talk.

Mr. Poparad, Who, what method were they assessed at?

Mrs. LaFever, I'm going to let him answer that--Frank.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mrs. LaFever, Because we had some new laws that came about since we did our data collecting.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, that's what I, yes.

Frank Kelly, Almost all the counties in the state, including Porter County adopted the state's manual, which is still a cost-base manual, but part of that manual, the taxpayer and/or the assessor can use other types of information to change those costs. And that additional information could be income. That additional information could be sales. So for example, on residential property, you get your base assessment based on cost, but then based on local sales, those costs are updated to reflect what those values would be.
On commercial and industrial property, you could go through that process, but no assessor in the state currently has enough information to adjust those costs. So the onus is back on the taxpayer then to bring in information that would be applicable, like they are on…

Mr. Poparad, I guess my question is, and this is more directed at Shirley, what method did they use to assess/build apartment building, which is, you're dealing with commercial, I thought mostly like apartments and duplexes?
Mrs. LaFever, Right.

Mr. Poparad, What method did they use to assess his apartment building in Chesterton that, let's say it's an appeal on his part, what method did they use right now?

Mrs. LaFever, They use the information out of the manual…

Mr. Poparad, So was it market…

Mrs. LaFever, On the square footage.

Mr. Poparad, Market value?

Mrs. LaFever, No, no.

Mr. Kelly, It's cost.

Mrs. LaFever, It's cost.

Mr. Poparad, Cost of the construction?

Mr. Kelly, Cost of construction minus depreciation.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Kelly, That's based on a national…

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Kelly, Booklet.

Mr. Poparad, And Bill obviously doesn't like that number?

Mr. Kelly, He may not like that number, so he may have information that's based on his rents that he's receiving, and his expenses, that his billing is only worth $200,000. Whereas the manual may come up with $300,000.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Kelly, So he would have an appeal there, and be able to present income information that the assessor didn't have previously, and may or may not have the background to evaluate them.

Mrs. LaFever, Don't forget, Bob, the assessors went out data collecting back in 2001, 2002. The State did not give us these memos until November of 2003 saying that we could use three different methods. By that time, 2003 last year, I believe, all the council members know where all the assessors were at last year, November 2003. We was upstairs putting information in.

Mr. Poparad, Correct.

Mrs. LaFever, So since this bill was passed, it was a bill that was passed, to say that we had to use these three methods.

Mr. Poparad, Well you have your choice of which method to use, the way I understand it.

Mrs. LaFever, And originally, we only had a choice of using our cost out of our manual.

Mr. Poparad, Right.

Mrs. LaFever, And then the law said, Senate Bill 1, I believe came about, and then we had to use three different methods in November 2003.

Mr. Poparad, Oh, you have your choice of three different methods, right? You can't use all three, you have to decide on which method to use, don't you?

Mrs. LaFever, We have to get information for all three approaches, and we're going to take the least…

Mr. Poparad, In the case, Bill appeals, based on income…

Mrs. LaFever, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, And you've done market costs and?

Mrs. LaFever, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Steele, So when you assess other properties in the future, are you going to use all three methods, or will you just, what each department decides on, one method or how are we going to be assessed?

Mr. Kelly, Generally you're looking for the method that, for that type of property that best gives to the value of that property, market value and use in that case that you're going to be handling. So on an apartment building, especially an older one, you'd be looking more toward income information to give you what the value of that building is, since what it cost to building 30 years ago is irrelevant. For other types of properties, costs and sales, especially on residential properties, sales would be more relevant than cost, and since they're not rented, income would be valid information.

Mr. Poparad, Yes.

Mr. Steele, Does each person who receives the rent have to tell you what he's receiving as a rent on that building?

Mr. Kelly, They wouldn't have to, but if they don't care for their assessment based on another method, then it's up to taxpayer to present information that would speak to the value. So they can't, you can't appeal and then say, well I don't want to give that information.

Mr. Steele, So you couldn't use the other two methods. If the assessor wants to use the income method, and requests that you give the income on that property, that's what you're going to have to work with to start with.

Mr. Kelly, I would say especially on the rental properties that income information is the best method to assess that property. So that would be the direction I would propose that they go.

Mr. Steele, So each businessman has to divulge what he's getting for rent on that building to the assessor's office.

Mr. Kelly, If they don't care for their assessment based on the numbers. And what I brought, which hopefully is relevant in that, is that we perform this function in some other counties. Monroe County being the first one. They were one of the first ones done with reassessment, and so we started there. We've also done this in Allen County, St. Joseph County, and a couple of other smaller counties.
It's a one-page handout. Basically what it says is that we reviewed about 300 commercial/industrial appeals. At that time the law required the taxpayer to indicate the value that they wanted on their property. The new law just says you can appeal, and it doesn't say what value you have to put down.
The final result of those appeals was that basically the difference between what taxpayers wanted, and where they finally settled those appeals was a difference to the county of over $600,000 in tax money. So I know there's been a lot of discussion here tonight about expenses, but looking at the revenue side is, basically by aggressively defending the county's current assessments, and by aggressively reviewing taxpayers' information, Monroe County, which has about 50,000 parcels saved upwards of $600,000 per year in that scenario.
So I'm certainly not going to claim that was all our doing, but it certainly helps the county's position in the revenue perspective, and the tax rate perspective, to review the taxpayers' information to the greatest extent possible.

Mr. Poparad, Do you work on a percentage or a flat fee?

Mr. Kelly, This is just a flat fee.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Steele, And, Frank, for that flat fee, because I understand you were going to help each one of the county assessors…

Mr. Kelly, Township.

Mr. Steele, Township, excuse me. So how do you determine, is there just you or do you have staff that when these different townships call you up you can help them or, how do you work that, or do you give so many hours and there's additional monies or?

Mr. Kelly, What Shirley provided us was a group of appeals that primarily dealt with properties where income information was very relevant. We gave her a price for that, which is this $20,000. What we'd do is then hold the hearing with the taxpayer, review their information, suggest information that we would need from them in order to make a fair decision on the property. Our perspective is to be fair, not to just simply turn down things. Then evaluate that information, and then make suggestions to each of the township assessors as a relevant outcome of that appeal, either suggesting a new value, suggesting a change in that valuation or suggesting that the appeal denied based on the information that's been provided. So it's a flat fee whether it takes a half-an-hour or eight hours for that appeal.

Mrs. LaFever, At the present time we have four days set up, and they're bringing three people to the office…

Mr. Kelly, Yes.

Mrs. LaFever, And we're going through four days to start on these appeals. Hopefully in those four days we'll have most of the appeals done. We'll probably have maybe another 100 we'll have to do later on, but we'll start with 200, maybe a little over 200, and we have scheduled four days, 20 minutes apiece, and they're bringing a team of three people up. So hopefully we're hoping those in those four days we can resolve those, over 200 appeals.
And this is something that hopefully, once we get the additional training that we will not have to have a consultant. Once the township assessors learn this job function, and we get our database set up, you know, hopefully they will not have to have additional help unless it's a large appeal. But, I mean these are really, some of these are small rental units, and once they learn how to do them, they'll be learning, they will be having the hearings with Nexus, they're also going to be learning how to handle the next appeals in the future too.
And we're going to continue to have classes here on income approach for the assessors. In fact, we had one set up earlier, and I had to cancel it because we don't have the time to do it. So this is, not an ongoing thing that we'll have to use a consultant, and once we learn how to do it, the assessors learn how to do it and feel comfortable in doing that, then they will be able to do it themselves.

Mr. Steele, This is also an educational program; it's kind of like on-the-job training, really too.

Mrs. LaFever, Yes.

Mr. Steele, So you're getting a double bang for your buck here.

Mrs. LaFever, Correct.

Mr. Poparad, Is this a cap, Shirley?

Mrs. LaFever, I have $20,000 for the appeals that we've been given, which is over 200. I have some additional ones that if we have to have help with them, it would be $100 an appeal. But I don't know for sure. I think some of the township assessors, once they learn the process they may be able to take some of the other ones themselves and work them out. So we may be able to get away, I'm hoping with $20,000, but I might have to come back and get a little bit more. It depends on how many appeals the township assessors feel like they can't do.

Mrs. Conover, Shirley, does this help Candy in her situation right now with her 1,000-some appeals?

Mrs. LaFever, The more, the three big units is where the appeals, these appeals are mostly coming from Center, Westchester and Portage; you have a few down in Boone; a couple down in Kouts; but most of these are for your three big tax units. And we're talking 60 to 70 million dollars in assessed value here. This is not, this is big bucks. If you took all the total assessments out of these 300 appeals, that's large money. $20,000 in a drop in the bucket to defend, you know, our $60,000,000 assessment. This is a lot of money for the County.

Mr. Poparad, No, I'm not, I don't have a problem, I think you've got the wrong impression here. I'm not adverse to this. I guess, I mean, it seems like you're defensive and you have to have help here. I don't know, I mean I'm assuming that everything was assessed properly per the manual, etc, etc. I mean, don't think I'm picking on you. I don't…

Mrs. LaFever, I thought you were.

Mr. Poparad, I think this is a good thing. No, I haven't picked on you yet. Later, wait a bit.

Mrs. LaFever, It's coming, I know.

Mr. Poparad, But I mean, I guess I question this whole, because after reading…

Mrs. LaFever, Why we have to have help? The whole state of Indiana needs help with reassessment.

Mr. Poparad, Well, yes, the whole process is so flawed we don't have enough time to solve this, that answer tonight. So on that note, Bill, are you looking for a motion?

Mr. Carmichael, Motion. One minute, Bob.

Mr. Ruge, On the rental real estate, how is rent income figured in that? Is that income from the renter or is that, you said that figured into the assessed valuation? How is that? That's a complicated problem, isn't it? I couldn't solve it, I don't think. But the income from rent affects the valuation of the real estate?

Mr. Kelly, Yes, and…

Mr. Ruge, Of the rental property?

Mr. Kelly, Several of the properties that are under appeal are either…

Mr. Ruge, What?

Mr. Kelly, Single-family or duplex properties where there's rent paid, there's expenses that may vary a great deal between properties and between areas. So that's where the State of Indiana has recently passed some legislation that directs the county assessor to develop what's called a gross rent multiplier. Again, which is information that the County currently doesn't have, that will have to be developed in the future, an unfunded mandate, in that regard.
So on those properties, you get numerous appeals. You're not talking about a great deal of assessments, but depending on the property, the cost basis may be a lot different than the income basis of that property. On other types of income properties, say a large apartment building, you can usually look at the individual's information to determine their income and their expenses, because there are national averages that you can look at to determine if those income levels and expenses are within the parameters. But on single-family properties, you usually try and develop some local information from which the judge that.

Mr. Carmichael, I will entertain a motion.

Mr. Poparad moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Assessor Reassessment 08.09, $20,000 from 3730 Lease Purchase to 3120 Consultants. Mr. Poparad seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, This is a transfer.

Mrs. LaFever, At this present time it's a transfer, because we cannot do no additionals, so I have to transfer.

Mr. Carmichael, Let me handle this first, okay.

Mrs. LaFever, I'm sorry.

Mr. Carmichael, Those in favor of this motion, answer by the usual sign of aye.

Motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Now what did you say, Shirley?

Mr. Poparad, Bill, did we do the $5,000?

Mr. Carmichael, Is that what you want next?

Mr. Poparad, Well it's all lumped together.

Mr. Carmichael, $5,000 from Lease Purchase to Hourly, so I have a motion to that effect?

Mr. Poparad, That's for part-time help, Shirley?

Mrs. LaFever, Yes, I'm running out of money.

Mr. Poparad moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Assessor Reassessment 08.09, $5,000 from 3730 Lease Purchase to 1120 Hourly. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Carmichael, What did you say about the next one, Shirley?

Mrs. LaFever, I forgot what I was going to say now.

Mr. Carmichael, The Data Entry Clerk.

Mrs. LaFever, I think right now at this present time since the State has not approved the additional funding, I'm going to withdraw, before I get denied, my full-time person for my office.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mrs. LaFever, But I will be back because I, you have letters from five trustee assessors that very well know if we cannot get this full-time person, that they are, they're new construction will not be entered for 2003, payable '04 unless they find some way of doing it themselves, which I know, if you read the letters from the trustee assessors, it's impossible for them to do it.

Mr. Carmichael, You're withdrawing the $35,000 from Contractual also?

Mrs. LaFever, At this time, yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, and you…

Mrs. Conover, Could we throw out that maybe she'd rather table this request? If you withdraw it, you have to re-advertise it.

Mr. Carmichael, To table it would require no additional advertising to bring it back.

Mrs. LaFever, I'd love for it to be tabled, and vote on, if I could hire someone once the freeze has been lifted.

Mrs. Conover, If we table, you don't have to re-advertise.

Mr. Carmichael, Motion to table.

Mrs. LaFever, Okay, let's table it then.

Mr. Carmichael, Is there a motion to table?

Mrs. Conover moved to table the additional appropriation requests submitted by Assessor Reassessment 08.09, $35,000 to 3950 Contractual Services, $20,335 to 1110 Salaries, $1,556 to 1210 FICA, and $1,068 to 1230 PERF; and 144 Form, Data Entry Clerk from $0 to $20,335. Mr. Ruge seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

ASSESSOR SALES DISCLOSURE 202.09
144 Form - Request Denied
Clerk from $0 to $19,213
Additional Appropriation - Request Denied
$19,213 to 1110 Salaries
$1,470 to 1210 FICA
$1,230 to PERF

Mr. Carmichael, Sales Disclosure.

Mrs. LaFever, I'm not withdrawing that one, because this is not general fund money; this is not reassessment money. This is a sales disclosure fund.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mrs. LaFever, And by law, I have to have those sales disclosures electronically formatted, and sent down state. They have to be in the computer--right--system. They have to be sent to Indianapolis in order to get ready for the next reassessment. The sales disclosures, it takes like 18 steps to verify one sales disclosure; and 18 steps is very time consuming. You have to look over the sales disclosure. You have to go through each step, and then you have to make copies and give them to the township assessors, and also a copy to the State.
This information has got to get into our Plexis system, so, because this is where we're going to use for our training for 2005, which I was supposed to have done, I believe by March 1st of 2005. And that's less than a year away. That's 11 months away.
So I am still asking for my full-time position, for my sales disclosure. And this is going to be an ongoing process. This is not a temporary process. Sales disclosure became law a few years ago. They've passed legislation saying we have to get it on computers by then for Indianapolis to be able to use their information they need for the next reassessment, also for us.
I have 8,000 to 10,000 sales disclosures coming in on a yearly basis. I've got to get 2004, 2003, 2001 put in there, and have all this in there, finished in 11 months. So it's going to be very time consuming. I do not have the manpower to do it. My part-time people that I've got now are busy answering the phones, and their trying to sort through the sales disclosures to get ready to put them in the database, but we can only get done maybe 30 a day in between phone calls and waiting on the counter. So I really need a full-time person to concentrate on doing nothing but sales disclosures, and this money has not been frozen by the State. This is a sales disclosure fund.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mr. Poparad, Question. When did the State mandate that this had to go electronic?

Mrs. LaFever, It was supposed to have been electronic already. I'm already behind. I believe December 31st, 2004, Bob.

Mr. Poparad, That's this year.

Mrs. LaFever, December 31st, 2004, the sales disclosure forms and data by local assessors to the DLGF. Legislation services agency must be provided on electronic format; that was part of that Senate Bill 1.

Mr. Kelly, From December 2003.

Mr. Poparad, So this is last year. When was Senate Bill 1 passed?

Mr. Kelly, December 2003, five months ago.

Mrs. LaFever, Oh, you mean when the bill was passed. I'm sorry.

Mr. Poparad, You knew this was coming, right?

Mrs. LaFever, I knew it was coming, yes, but what have we doing the last year--reassessment. I mean I have the sales disclosures in my office, and we have been working on them, but we can't, we cannot keep up.

Mr. Poparad, Well I'm back to my…

Mrs. LaFever, That's why the State, that's why the State increased the fund, the fund fee, for the sales disclosure, they charge now $10, so that can go into a separate fund, in order to provide these, so we can provide this to get it to the State.

Mr. Poparad, And this is for the next reassessment, which is when?

Mr. Steele, Four years from now.

Mrs. LaFever, This is, we use it for our training for 2005.

Mr. Steele, Four years from, they just finished reassessment.

Mrs. LaFever, And also the next reassessment together.

Mr. Poparad, Which is, '08, '05? When is the next reassessment?

Mr. Kelly, Well…

Mr. Steele, It's a four-year period, isn't it?

Mr. Kelly, If I might interject, I think that often in a lot, I've talked to several county councils, and there is some confusion about this. The General Assembly delayed the next reassessment by a year to 2009, so there's no general reassessment due until that time. There had been a law that required annual trending to start in March of 2006. In order to get the delay in general reassessment, they pushed up the date for annual trending to March of 2005.
So basically what that means is, you have to trend all of your real property assessments, land and improvements, every year starting in 2005. So unlike a general reassessment where you've got a huge amount of work, it's now a smaller amount of work, continuously, starting basically now to get assessments done for 2005.

Mr. Poparad, How much money do you have in that fund, Shirley?

Mrs. LaFever, This day, Sheila.

Ms. Riley, $44,524.

Mr. Poparad, You get $10 for every transfer, is that what it is?

Mrs. LaFever, Yes. The fee was increased.

Mr. Poparad, So you get 30 a day, you said.

Mrs. LaFever, Well, no, Bob. I get 8,000 to 10,000 a year.

Mr. Poparad, No, no, you get 30 a day done, you said.

Mrs. LaFever, We can get 30 done a day between phone calls and counter we're lucky. And that's only putting information on the sales disclosure, that's part of the 18 steps for the sales disclosure. That's not getting it into the Plexis system, because the people I've got doing it does not know the Plexis system. We've got to get it in the Plexis system. This is just to review the sales disclosure before you give it to the person to put it into the Plexis.

Mr. Kelly, If I'm not mistaken, I think the law also was slightly amended, if that, if the county does not electronically forward their sales disclosure form database, I think, property tax replacement monies are withheld.

Mrs. LaFever, They can hold our property tax replacement credit if we do not have this job function done. That doesn't mean they will do it, but they can do it.

Mr. Poparad, You're doing this now? Somebody is doing this right now?

Mrs. LaFever, No.

Mr. Poparad, So you've been not doing this work all along?

Mrs. LaFever, We've been doing the sales disclosure, I put it in part of the scanner, but we had to stop that, because I don't have the manpower to do it, Bob. I only got maybe a year's worth in there. That information has got to get into the Plexis system now also. We've got to get it to the State; we've got to get into Plexis. We've got to get it into two different databases. I'm trying to figure out with the vendor if we get it into one scanner, can it be pulled from there into Plexis, I won't have to have two people doing it; only one person doing it. That's what I'm hoping for.

Mr. Poparad, Well…

Mr. Steele, Shirley…

Mrs. Lippens, It's a third-party vendor. I can't speak for what…

Mr. Poparad, We're back to our friends…

Mrs. Lippens, At Plexis. I can't speak for what Plexis will commit to or not.

Mrs. LaFever, This has nothing to do with Plexis at all. This has nothing to do with Plexis, Sharon.

Mrs. Lippens, Right, but your scanning is another third-party software that we cannot, until we met with them and see if that data can be extracted if a format that Plexis can accept, we really can't speak intelligently as to whether this can or cannot be done.

Mrs. LaFever, Right, and that's going to cost a fee to do that, so my better option is to hire some person to put it in one system, because…

Mr. Poparad, No.

Mrs. LaFever, The other person will be done with it.

Mr. Poparad, I disagree with that analogy, because once you hire that person, they're here.

Mrs. LaFever, But, Bob, this is an ongoing process. You have a theory that we are going to hire these people, and we're going to catch up; we're not going to catch up until 2009. We'll be lucky if we catch up by 2009.

Mr. Poparad, Well then I guess we'll be arguing, I'll be sitting here arguing until the end of my term or 2009, whichever comes first. I mean I'd be more …

Mrs. LaFever, But we…

Mr. Poparad, Shirley, I'd be more than glad to, for part-time people to help get you through this, but I'm not going to sit here and hire anymore people.

Mrs. LaFever, I don't have computers for all these part-time people, number one, Bob.

Mr. Poparad, Then we'll get them.

Mrs. LaFever, I don't have the work stations.

Mr. Poparad, Call Sharon, and let's get some more drug upstairs. We did it before.

Mrs. LaFever, Well it takes, you can't, it's not going to happen. I'm not taking my girls' offices upstairs. My job is to do my office the best and efficient I know how to do it.

Mr. Poparad, That's correct.

Mrs. LaFever, This by law I have to have it done. If I cannot do it, then the DLGF can hold your property tax replacement credit up.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mrs. LaFever, And they will do it if our job function is not done.

Mr. Poparad, So I guess you're threatening us. If we don't do this, you're going to tell the DLGF…

Mrs. LaFever, No, the State's saying this.

Mr. Poparad, The county council didn't give me my help, so hold their property taxes. Is that what you are saying?

Mrs. LaFever, I'm not saying that.

Mr. Steele, Shirley…

Mr. Poparad, That's what you're implying.

Mrs. LaFever, I cannot get it done with the manpower I've got now, Bob.

Mr. Steele, Shirley, could you hire a part-time person to answer your phone, and move one of your people away from that who might have some experience with this?

Mrs. LaFever, I don't have any extra people, Al, and you cannot hire part-time people to answer the phone because I agree with Candy, when that person calls in, they're asking technical questions.

Mr. Steele, But they…

Mrs. LaFever, That they would have to stop, and…

Mr. Steele, But they can turnaround…

Mrs. LaFever, Ask one of my full-time girls the question…

Mr. Steele, Excuse me.

Mrs. LaFever, Before they can give the answer.

Mr. Steele, But they can turn around, and ask the person what the answer to that question is, and then they know the answer to that question for whomever calls in the future, and they can refer and be trained very shortly, because they're going to be asked the same the question.
Shirley, what you have to realize is, you may have this money in the fund, but then the commissioners' fund has to fund the insurance and so forth for these people. So it isn't just your money that's available, there's these other monies that these people tap into, and especially with the insurance, after employees' payment, payment to employees, insurance is our biggest cost. You know, and you can hire someone with three or people, and they're all on the policy, and what if that person has a $100,000 heart attack, one of the people in that group?

Mrs. LaFever, Well there are no guarantees.

Mr. Steele, The commissioners, I know, but then the commissioners are stuck with that in their budget. You, it's more than just your budget in these cases. And part-time people are hired all over by different people, and they're trained by different institutions, they come on board with no knowledge, and we're willing to help you out with this. But I think, I don't think you're any different than other people; other people train part-time people to do difficult jobs all the time. I don't see why you're an exception or any other department…

Mrs. LaFever, The assessors are the only ones that have to have the Level I or Level 2. The only elected officials, and they are office holders, who have to have this.

Mr. Steele, Answering the phone.

Mrs. LaFever, But you have to have a talent to answer, Bob, I mean, Al, to answer that question.

Mr. Steele, I told you how to get the answer.

Mrs. LaFever, Well, if that's what you want to say, that's why we know it doesn't work.

Mr. Steele, Okay.

Mr. Poparad, Do you have a person that you would hire if we granted this request?

Mrs. LaFever, No, I do not at this time, no.

Mr. Poparad, How would we get this person?

Mrs. LaFever, I would have to advertise it.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, but then…

Mrs. LaFever, A full-time position.

Mr. Poparad, Are they going to be trained?

Mrs. LaFever, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Somebody's out there is already trained as an assessor that could come in and do this work.

Mrs. LaFever, There is no assessors I can hire.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, so we're going to have to train somebody.

Mrs. LaFever, Yes, to do this.

Mr. Poparad, I'm being facetious…

Mrs. LaFever, To do this job…

Mr. Poparad, Do you understand what I'm saying?

Mrs. LaFever, Function itself, the sales disclosure function, it's a sales disclosure function, not an assessor.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, so it's just a data-entry type thing.

Mrs. LaFever, Correct.

Mr. Poparad, So we could call Personnel Express, and tell them to send us down a person that's computer literate, and away we go.

Mrs. LaFever, I should, but when…

Mr. Poparad, Because it's just data…

Mrs. LaFever, You hire someone, you want to be able to maybe move that person so they'll…

Mr. Poparad, No, no, no.

Mrs. LaFever, In that office.

Mr. Poparad, I'm just, we're addressing the sales disclosure forms, the data entry clerk that you are requesting right now. You could call Personnel Express or whoever it is in Valpo, and get some temp down there that's very computer illiterate and do the work. Is that an accurate statement?

Mrs. LaFever, I should be able to, maybe, I don't know.

Mr. Poparad, You're not inclined to, but you could.

Mrs. LaFever, Pardon me?

Mr. Poparad, You're not inclined to hire part-time, but you could.

Mrs. LaFever, I think with the amount of workload, part-time, one part-time person cannot keep up with this.

Mr. Poparad, Part-time people can work 35 hours a week.

Mrs. LaFever, I've had two part-timers working on this all last year, Bob, they couldn't keep up.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, I'm just saying, a part-time person can work 35 hours a week. Is that a true statement?

Ms. Riley, For seven months.

Mrs. LaFever, For seven months.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, seven months. Then they can go away for a month, and, or send them back to Personnel Express, and tell them to send me another one. I mean you could accomplish the same goal without hiring a full-time person, but you have chosen not to. You want a full-time person, and you're going to dig…

Mrs. LaFever, I have to have a full-time person…

Mr. Poparad, Your heels in…

Mrs. LaFever, Who is going to learn the job.

Mr. Poparad, And you're going to threaten us with the DLGF, and property tax credit…

Mrs. LaFever, I'm not threatening you, Bob.

Mr. Poparad, Well no, you're just sat right here and said…

Mrs. LaFever, That is the law.

Mr. Poparad, They could. That is the law, that is correct.

Mrs. LaFever, That's the law.

Mr. Poparad, And the law probably reads too, if you dig real deep, and this probably should have been done a year, year and a half ago too, and it didn't get done. You could have been…

Mrs. LaFever, We didn't have the manpower…

Mr. Poparad, In here…

Mrs. LaFever, Or the money to do it.

Mr. Poparad, You could have been in here a year ago asking for more help.

Mrs. LaFever, I have come in, and asked for more help.

Mr. Poparad, This, this item by itself.

Mrs. LaFever, I had a part-time girl working on it.

Mr. Poparad moved to deny the requests submitted by Assessor Sales Disclosure 202.09, 144 Form, Clerk from $0 to $19,213 and the additional appropriations of, $19,213 to 1110 Salaries, $1,470 to 1210 FICA, and $1,230 to PERF.

Mrs. LaFever, I had a part-time girl working on this. We cannot keep up.

Mr. Steele, Shirley, would you go to part-time help?

Mr. Poparad, You've got a motion on the floor, Bill.

Mrs. LaFever, I have to have someone doing it, Al. But one part-time person cannot do it all.

Motion died for lack of a second.

Mr. Carmichael, The motion dies for lack of a second.

Mr. Poparad, Okay.

Mr. Steele, But, Shirley, you must understand we are trying to help you. And in everything we do in life there's compromise, and we're trying…

Mrs. LaFever, I think the assessors have compromised a lot.

Mr. Steele, We're trying to help you, but you just dig in with this permanent employee; everybody does. If you really want to get the job done, you'll work with part-time personnel like the rest of the world does.

Mrs. LaFever, Al, I have a part-time person working on it three days a week.

Mr. Steele, We're giving you another one.

Mrs. LaFever, And we have not had enough. I don't have, where am I going to put them in my office. Come down and look at my office.

Mr. Steele, Well you're asking…

Mrs. LaFever, There's no space.

Mr. Steele, For somebody, and now you're telling us your office is full, it can't hold anybody else.

Mrs. LaFever, I have a position for, I have room for one person. I don't have the room for three or four part-time people.

Mr. Steele, Shirley, I'm going to make the same motion Bob did. If you want to go for part-time help, I'll help you. Otherwise I'm going to make the motion that this request be denied.

Mrs. LaFever, I can hire part-time help, if I had the money. The money is there.

Mr. Steele, So are you going to hire part-time help?

Mrs. LaFever, I have go part-time help working now. I'll have to get additional part-time help. I'll have to come back and get additional money for funding for computers, because I'll have to have two or three more computers in order to get the job done.

Mr. Steele, Hire one person, you need two or three more computers?

Mrs. LaFever, If I, to get this job done, I know one part-time cannot do this.

Mr. Steele, But one will help you out right now, right?

Mrs. LaFever, I have one working on it right now. She's come in from the treasurer's office she's working for; she goes back to the treasurer's office in two months.

Mr. Steele, I don't think you're answering my question. If we give you this person, will you hire a part-time person?

Mrs. LaFever, I'll have to. If I can find someone willing to work part-time..

Mr. Steele, So if I…

Mrs. LaFever, And pick the days that I need them to work, not the days they want to pick to work, which I've had trouble in the past. They want to pick the days they want to work.

Mr. Steele, When you hire someone, if you put an ad in the paper you'll get a jillion people, and you can set down rules when they come in there. You know, you don't have any different problems than other businessman--out here in this world--have with employees every day, and employees have with employers. The rest of the world gets the job done. I don't see why you can't do it too, with part-time help. So my question again is, because we are trying to help you, if I make a motion that we approve part-time help, will you agree to that?

Mrs. LaFever, I'll have to, hoping the part-time person will stay. I hope I don't get them trained, and in a month they leave.

Mr. Steele, And how are you going to acquire this person, with an ad in the paper?

Mrs. LaFever, I probably, if we have that, because I'm not here to look at part-time help. We have job applications already filed. We'll look through there. The ones that's already applied for jobs in the county, we'll start there first, and look through them applications, Al.

Mr. Carmichael, Al, I think, because you mentioned before that the employee would be on the cost of the PERF, and the benefits, and so forth, would be put in the commissioners' budget. This is a stand-alone budget. This is similar to what you do with the county prosecutor, in the fact that if your money runs out, the employee goes home. And no funds are collected out of the general fund or out of the taxpayers' fund. This is a fee-based request.

Mr. Steele, But, Bill, you're talking about PERF and things like that. I'm talking about insurance.

Mrs. LaFever, It can come out of that fund too, the sales disclosure fund.

Mr. Carmichael, What has she got listed here? Salaries, FICA and PERF. The insurance is not listed.

Mrs. LaFever, Not yet, no.

Mr. Carmichael, Well, you know, in the case of the prosecutor, if the money runs out of that particular fund, the employee goes home. He understands that.

Mrs. LaFever, Right.

Mr. Carmichael, He needs funds that are generated from fee based services. That's my point. If we don't get the assessing done, we might just as well go home.

Mr. Poparad, Well I guess that's my point, Bill.

Mr. Carmichael, Because if the State is threatening us…

Mr. Poparad, Yes, yes, blah, blah…

Mr. Carmichael, And holding…

Mr. Steele, We're threatened all the time by everyone.

Mr. Poparad, I guess that's my point. Shirley can accomplish the same thing with part-time help, but she doesn't want to. She wants full-time. She could hire a part-timer, and work them 35 hours a week, which is exactly what you would get with a full-time employee, but she doesn't want to.

Mrs. LaFever, Can I work them 12 months out of the year?

Mr. Poparad, You can work them seven months; then send them back and get another one, but you don't want to.

Mrs. LaFever, Then you have to train that person all over again.

Mr. Poparad, I just asked you. This was basic data entry is what you just said.

Mrs. LaFever, Correct.

Mr. Poparad, The sales disclosures are basic data entry; I've got a daughter in high school that's a senior that could probably run rings around anybody in your office. So I don't want you to sit here…

Mrs. LaFever, I don't know about that.

Mr. Poparad, And tell me about how, you know, intricate or, this is not brain surgery, this is data entry.

Mrs. LaFever, I've never said that.

Mr. Poparad, Okay, so if you can go off and hire, go out in the street and hire somebody full-time and train them, then you can train a part-timer just as easily.

Mr. Steele, And, Shirley, there's a lot of qualified people that have been laid from the mills, and so forth. We have a lot of qualified people who live in this county that are looking for work.

Mrs. LaFever, If that's what you want to do, that's what I will have to do. I mean I have tried part-time people, and I've had problems with part-time people.

Mr. Steele, Well everybody does, so that's why you as a manager, get the job done with what you have.

Mr. Poparad, Or get rid of them, and get somebody else.

Mrs. LaFever, That's what I did.

Mr. Poparad, They're part-time. I mean.

Mrs. LaFever, But when you hire a person, Bob, this might be a job function for a person, when they know this job function, and maybe even be able to move onto another job function in the office.

Mr. Poparad, That's true, so…

Mrs. LaFever, That should want to learn about assessing and that.

Mr. Poparad, That's my point though. Now we, you know, you have a problem with your sales disclosure data entry, and that problem gets solved, and now we've got another full-time person floating around your office looking for something to do.

Mrs. LaFever, There's no one floating in my office.

Mr. Poparad, Well I just used that.

Mrs. LaFever, And it will not be like.

Mr. Poparad, I'm being facetious.

Mrs. LaFever, Come down and take a look my office.

Mr. Poparad, I'm being facetious. They get done with their work; they get done with this big problem; and now we've got to figure out what to do with them, because now they're on the payroll full-time, and heaven forbid, county government lays somebody off.

Mrs. LaFever, This is not a one-time deal. This is an ongoing process, unless the Legislature changes their rules or their law. This ongoing process is going to go on until 2009, that we know of right now; 2009 is a long ways away. This process will go onto 2009, we do know that.

Mr. Poparad, That's probably when the data is due too.

Mr. Steele, I'm going to make a motion to deny this request, and what I'd like to do is come sit with you in your office. I think again, we're so close here that we can work something out, and we can come back here with an understanding, then we won't have to go through this.

Mr. Steele moved to deny the requests submitted by Assessor Sales Disclosure 202.09, 144 Form, Clerk from $0 to $19,213 and the additional appropriations of, $19,213 to 1110 Salaries, $1,470 to 1210 FICA, and $1,230 to PERF.

Mrs. LaFever, Whatever the Council what's to do.

Mr. Poparad seconded.

Mr. Ruge, In your assessment budget, these lines are in your assessment budget? The assessor's reassessment?

Mrs. LaFever, No, this is…

Mr. Ruge, These funds are there, aren't they?

Mrs. LaFever, This fund, John, is the sales disclosure fund.

Mr. Ruge, What?

Mr. Carmichael, Here, John.

Mrs. LaFever, This is the sales disclosure fund.

Mr. Carmichael, It's a….

Mr. Ruge, In the, the amount of money is there, isn't it?

Mrs. LaFever, This is not tax dollars…

Mr. Ruge, To pay it?

Mrs. LaFever, This is the sales disclosure fund, yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, the money is there, John.

Mrs. LaFever, Yes, the money is there.

Mr. Carmichael, Motion and a second to deny the request. Is that what I understand?

Mr. Steele, That's correct, Bill.

Mr. Carmichael, Roll call. Remember now, this is a reverse vote. If you vote no, that means you want to, you do not agree with the motion. Yes, you agree with the motion.

Mr. Steele, Yes means to deny.

Mr. Carmichael, The motion is to deny. Roll call.

Motion to deny carried on the following roll call vote:

Steele-YesStevenson-Yes
Carmichael-NoConover-No
Knoblock-YesPoparad-Yes
Ruge-No

Mr. Carmichael, It's 4 to 3, the motion is denied.

PTABOA APPOINTMENT

Mrs. LaFever, I had one other thing tonight, about my appointment for my PTABOA.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, Shirley, I see that request in there. You have a PTABOA appointment, and who is that?

Mrs. LaFever, It's Barbara Wiggins. The commissioners have approved it, I also have to have this body to approve the waiver to in order to put her on the PTABOA. You should have her credentials in front of you.

Mr. Carmichael, You did send us a letter to that effect with her qualifications.

Mrs. LaFever, Yes, I did.

Mr. Carmichael, What's the Council's pleasure?

Mr. Poparad moved to approve the waiver and appoint Barbara Wiggins to the PTABOA Board for a period of one year. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mrs. LaFever, Thank you.

Ms. Riley, Before you let her go, you guys did not do the additional for $35,000.

Mrs. LaFever, I'm going to withdraw that right now; we said that.

Ms. Riley, Well all I heard was the withdrawal of the 144, I didn't hear the withdrawal of this $35,000.

Mr. Carmichael, She did. I asked that question, Sheila.

Mrs. LaFever, Yes.

Ms. Riley, I'm just checking.

Mr. Carmichael, Thank you.

CORONER 01.07
Additional Appropriation - Request Withdrawn
$400 to 3130 Training & Education
$4,000 to 3140 Medical & Hospital Services
Transfer
$100 from 3330 Photo & Blueprint to 3140 Medical & Hospital Services

Mr. Carmichael, The Coroner has a transfer. Jan, what was the explanation on that?

Ms. Noll, I'm sorry?

Mr. Carmichael, What was the explanation on the coroner's request?

Ms. Noll, For the coroner, they have an outstanding bill that needs to be paid from Medical & Hospital Services. I thought they were going to come back tonight. Doris was supposed to bring the request up, but I see nothing, but she said they have an outstanding bill that needs to be paid.

Mr. Carmichael, And how much is it?

Ms. Noll, It was about $100.

Mr. Carmichael, The request then is to transfer for the coroner's bill, at approximately $100, exactly $100. Is there a motion to that effect?

Mr. Poparad moved to grant the request for Coroner 01.07, and transfer $100 from 3330 Photo & Blueprint to 3140 Medical & Hospital Services. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Poparad, Are we stiffing the coroner, Bill?

Mr. Carmichael, No, he's going to withdraw that.

Mr. Poparad, All of them?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Mr. President.

Ms. Riley, I missed all of that.

Ms. Noll, Sheila, we don't know, it's got to go, they need to transfer $100 into their Medical & Hospital Services line.

Ms. Riley, So 3140 needs $100.

Ms. Noll, Yes.

Ms. Riley, And where did they transfer it from?

Ms. Noll, That I've got to find out tomorrow from Doris. Somebody was supposed to be here, and I don't know what happened.

Mrs. Vuko, And the additionals have been withdrawn, right?

Ms. Riley, So the additionals have been withdrawn?

Ms. Noll, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, do we have that straightened out?

Ms. Noll, We'll get it straightened out tomorrow.

JUVENILE PROBATION 01.79
144 Form
Probation Officer from $32,460 to $25,998

JUVENILE PROBATION USER FEES 47
144 Form
Probation Officer from $3,465 to $0

Mr. Carmichael, Juvenile Probation, Form 144.

Judge Mary Harper, I'm going to pass something out. If I could ask your indulgence just for a moment, before we get into our request to lower our budget, and introduce the Juvenile Magistrate to you. I don't know if you've met Magistrate Nemeth. Ed, could you stand up.

Mr. Poparad, Oh, he's the new guy.

Judge Harper, Yes, the new guy. And there may be occasion from time to time when he's here in my stead. I wanted to let you know who he is. We're really, really happy to have him, he's a good guy. With that, I think I sent you some correspondence, and we're be happy to address any questions that you have regarding our request to lower our budget. I believe that the policy of the Council has been that when a probation officer, as you know there is a graduated-pay schedule pursuant to state requirements for the probation officers.
You have always asked us to replace the position at the lowest possible salary, at the starting salary, the one-year salary, and we have always complied with your request. The probation officer being who is being replaced had some seniority, and we would like to replace this position at the starting salary. Is that right?

Amy Beier, Yes.

Judge Harper, The new salary, which means that we need to lower the user fees budget, and we need to lower the salary for the position. Unless you want us to go out, and bring in somebody for a more higher price, but we think we can get our work done, and train somebody in our system to accommodate the programming and the philosophy of our department at the lower salary. We can do that.

Mr. Carmichael, Are there any questions of the judge?

Mr. Ruge, These are reductions? Reductions?

Judge Harper, Why yes.

Mr. Ruge, I like that. Thank you.

Judge Harper, It's a good thing, isn't it. I think overall it's about $9,000 between the user fees and the general fund. The other thing that I just wanted to reiterate, because if you take a look at the outline of our juvenile probation department, you will see that we are probably one of the most progressive and innovative departments in the State.
We have on one or more occasions invited everybody to come out, and view the juvenile facility, you know, meet the probation officers, see the work of the departments, see the work of the court. I think we sent at least one or more letters; we always welcome you. You know we would love to have you come and see what we do, the kind of services that we perform for families and kids. It's not just watching over a child now to be sure that he gets his five hours of PACT time done or he goes to his, you know, one session alcohol program, that type of thing.
We have great challenges. I present it to the children and the families in this community, and we will do everything humanly possible with our staff to get involved in early intervention to keep kids in school, to keep families as healthy as possible. You know, that's our commitment, and we're going to do what it takes. So if you have any questions, we're happy to answer them.

Mrs. Conover, Not necessarily a question, Judge, you've always been a very, very strong advocate of children at risk. I haven't been through your facilities for about, oh, better than seven years now. I imagine that you have probably a greater clientele than you did seven years ago.

Judge Harper, And we're performing so many more services, Karen. Mediation in juvenile cases, which is one of the most novel things that we can do, and the highest potential for success, for example, is to do mediation in CHINS cases. Get the family around the table, work out a solution that works for the family, instead of fighting it out, and sending people out the front door who are unhappy.
They always think somebody got screwed by the court, you know, because we've imposed something on them that, you know, that they're not, that they don't buy into, because some judge told me to do it. But when you can sit that family down around a table, and you can mediate a disposition that they agree to, that they think is appropriate, that maybe even you've incorporated some extended family members, grandma and grandpa to help with the situation, and aunt and uncle to help with the situation. You know, that's a good disposition, and those are the types of things we're doing.
We're doing that in paternity cases. These cases--these IV-D cases--we have an 89%, possibly 90, Alison can correct me, success rate on our mediation for working out visitation, for working out things with couples who couldn't agree enough to get married, you know. We're trying to improve the quality of justice, not just watching the kids. We're trying to make it a better deal for the kids, for the family, and for the community.

Mrs. Conover, You're doing a good job.

Judge Harper, One other thing we wanted to talk about the program that we've got in Portage, that Jen's doing up there. This is special.

Ms. Beier, It's called Project Pass--P-S-E-S-ment. It stands for Probation and Schools Equals Success. Basically what it is, it's a probation officer is assigned to Willowcreek Middle School in Portage. She's there everyday, and has daily contact with all children on probation, and she and the school work together to identify any other children who are considered high risk to become delinquents. She has daily contact with them; she has some contact with their families as well.
The goal is to see an increase in attendance; an increase in grades; an improvement in their behavior; things like this. There has been some similar projects done nationally that have realized some real good success with that, and we've already seen a great improvement in those areas too. So we've yet to really put a statistical report together for you, because the school year is not over. We just started it with this last semester, so it's real new, but it's already realized some real good success, and of course,
I think it goes without saying that if you can do, then you prevent them, you know the expense of court time, and you know, being on probation, things like that. So hopefully that will pan out well for us, and it's something we are actively pursuing some grant funding for, so.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, thank you. Any questions of the request? I will entertain a motion.

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request to amend the 144 Form for Juvenile Probation 01.79, Probation Officer from $32,460 to $25,998. Mr. Ruge seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, thank you. Probation, Form 144 is the Probation Officer from $3,465 to $0. Is that correct?

Ms. Beier, That's correct. That was the portion of the salary that was supplemented out of the user fees in accordance to what the State mandated. The person that was in this position was a senior employee, so she had a portion of her salary supplemented through the user fees. Because we are going to be hiring a baseline employee, there's no supplemental salary involved there.

Judge Harper, So it's $3,465…

Mr. Carmichael, What's the Council's pleasure?

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request to amend the 144 Form for Juvenile Probation User Fees 47, Probation Officer from $3,465 to $0. Mrs. Stevenson seconded, motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote.

Mr. Carmichael, Motion carries.

Judge Harper, We have always appreciated your support. We're really grateful for it. You're part of the team that we're a part of in helping kids. Thanks.

Ms. Beier, Thank you.

AUDITOR 01.02
144 Form - Request Withdrawn
Executive Deputy from $32,533 to $36,533
Transfer - Request Withdrawn
$2,500 from 2110 Office Supplies to 1110 Salaries
$1,500 from 3130 Training & Education to 1110 Salaries

Mrs. Vuko, Okay, I'm going to withdraw this for this evening, this raise that I was anticipating for Sheila. I kind of brought it before you to see what kind of reactions I would have. I mean I feel Sheila is worth this, plus more, and you have to realize this too, because she does a lot of work for everyone.
I guess I'm just a little disappointed in you. I've sat here through other council meetings, and have heard other people raises, and there was no problem. But this one, I feel that this evening was a bad time to bring it out, and I just hope in the future that you'll really consider this, because she's very valuable to me, and I don't want to lose her.
It seems like every time we turn around in this county, someone who has been trained, and somebody who knows a job, and can get the job done, and dedicates all the time that they can to it, ends up leaving because of the money. And I just would like for you to be a little bit open-minded when I come back again at a later date. I hope you can compensate her for the job she has done, because she does a terrific job.

Mr. Carmichael, Sandy, I think we're all aware of how valuable she is. I know my requests have been honored, like immediately. She's got the information right now, and what she doesn't have, she finds it, and gets it back to me. So I certainly appreciate her.

Mrs. Vuko, Okay. Well thank you.

Mrs. Conover, It's not only this government. It's other cities, towns and townships, and she is, she's right there with an answer. If she doesn't know it readily, she finds it, and she's quick to call you back. Sandy, I would only ask that when you resubmit this request, if you could have before us, comparable positions with the high-end to low-end, to provide to this Board.

Mrs. Vuko, Oh, I will.

Mrs. Conover, Thank you. And thank you, Sheila.

Mrs. Vuko, Thank you.
Ms. Riley, No problem.

ATTORNEY'S REPORT
Tax Anticipation Warrants
Family & Childrens Fund

Mr. Carmichael, Attorney's Report.

Mr. Steele, Don't we have one more item of business. The sheriff? Excuse me, I guess Dave's going to take care of that. Go ahead.

Mr. Carmichael, Attorney's Report.

Mr. Hollenbeck, As you will recall in December of last year, you authorized the issuance of tax anticipation warrants in an amount not to exceed $10,000,000. Through the frugal accounting techniques of the county auditor's office, and their ongoing efforts to keep cost constraints on as much as possible, we've been able to survive until late April here without the need to issue those warrants. The auditor's office now tells me though that we have arrived at that point where our cash flow is seriously in jeopardy of going into the negative area. So we now are at the point that we are going to have to issue those tax warrants.
I will be appearing before the Board of County Commissioners next Wednesday to get their signatures on the actual tax warrants themselves, pursuant to the instructions of bond counsel. We have negotiated with the same banks that have helped us here the last couple of years, and they're going to step up again, led by Eric Gerard at First National Bank, Mercantile Bank, and Centier Bank are also joining in to help us with an interest rate of about 1.47%. So that will get culminated, hopefully on Wednesday in front of the commissioners. You've already done and signed everything you have to, and by the end of the week next week, hopefully we'll have the ability to access that money.
In. the same vein, I have been contacted by our local division of Family & Children Services in Porter County. As you are aware of, a portion of their budget comes from real estate property taxes as well, and they are indicating to me that they are in the same type of financial constraint that the general fund finds itself in, and they are inquiring as to their option. The most obvious one which is for them, for their fund, to issue tax warrants, so they can pay their bills until their revenue comes in.
As best I've been told, and you may have heard something before my arrival tonight, it's looking like we will be well into August, if not early September, before the tax settlements can be completed. Did you get anymore current information than that before I arrived? So just for your information, I will continue to work with the family social services people, but we may well bring them back before you at your next meeting, asking you to authorize them as well to issue some type of tax warrants. If that has to happen, all the costs of that would be confined to their budget, and it won't impact anything that you have to appropriate. But they are simply indicating that they are going to be out of money as well. Which isn't surprising given the nature of the plight that we all find ourselves in. A number of other matters on my plate, but most of which I've tried to keep in contact with, and keep you up to date by communication, so I won't reiterate any of that. And unless you have any questions, that's the end of my report.

Mr. Poparad, Bill, I've got a question.

Mr. Carmichael, John has a question.

Mr. Poparad, Oh.

Mr. Ruge, I don't have a question, I just want to move that we authorize issuing some tax anticipation warrants in the total amount of $10,000,000, not to be used, just to be used when necessary.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Okay, John, we will function accordingly.

Mr. Carmichael, Question.

Mr. Poparad, The Children & Family Services need money.

Mr. Hollenbeck, They're on the cusp.

Mr. Poparad, A lot? A little?

Mr. Hollenbeck, $267,533.

Mr. Poparad, I mean I'm going to ask a silly question. Why can't we loan them some money, and save them some bond handling fees, and all the other stuff that they have to pay for?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well, that's certainly, we could inter-fund transfer, but, you know, that's kind of…

Mr. Poparad, I mean we get it all from the same bank.

Ms. Riley, Yes.

Mr. Poparad, Well we'll just borrow $200,000 more, and, I mean…

Mr. Carmichael, Who's going to pay it back?

Mr. Poparad, Well when they get their tax draw, they pay it back.

Mr. Carmichael, Are they going to pay it back by December 31st?

Mr. Poparad, Well if we don't get it back from them people, it really doesn't matter, does it.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, but you're the one in that's in bankruptcy if you don't pay it back by December 31st.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Bob, I think it's better that we keep this separate.

Mr. Carmichael, There's no guarantee you're going to get your taxes this year.

Mr. Poparad, Oh that's right, the assessment's not done.

Mr. Carmichael, That's right.

Mr. Poparad, Yes. Silly me.

Mr. Carmichael, That's going to come back to haunt, I'm afraid. Any other matters?

Mr. Poparad, Yes, I've got one.

Mr. Carmichael, I want to hear it from the audience. Anybody in the audience?

SAFETY COMMITTEE

Com. Robert Harper, Can I have a second?

Mr. Carmichael, Hey, would you identify yourself, please.

Com. Harper, Commissioner Robert Harper. I just wanted just a second. I know I'm not on the agenda, but the commissioners passed at their last meeting a safety committee at the request of our insurance company. And this committee is proposed to be functioned after a committee run in some of the other counties to try to hold insurance costs down. It would do investigations, and try to do some loss work in the area of workmen's comp; in the area of liability--as far as county liability-- with a lot of emphasis on some of the serious accidents that happen on county roads; and quick investigation; with the thought of possible county liability; with looking over the accidents of county vehicles, and trying to come up with some ideas to limit the number of these accidents, so we don't get into a high-insurance area, which we have been in the past, especially with some of our auto accidents. In enacting this safety committee, we ask if the county council would appoint one person on that committee in addition to the other people, so that's why I'm asking about that tonight.

Mr. Carmichael, Does anybody wish to serve on that committee?

Mrs. Conover, When do they meet?

Com. Harper, We've talked about that, and we're envisioning, once it gets all established, four meetings a year. And there may be a few extra required to get it set up. For example, we have to work out some procedures and so forth for these investigations, and so forth. But after that, we're assuming we'll only meet four times a year.

Mr. Carmichael, Will you meet on individual cases?

Com. Harper, No, we're not, not after it gets, the idea is that you will not meet on individual cases after it gets going, except at your meeting four times a year. We intend to work with the sheriff's department to have a representative that investigates these cases, if there are accidents on county roads. If there is a case such as county employees with workmen's comp issues and so forth, we'll get reports from the various departments, and start seeing what kind of, you know, at our meeting four times a year, what type of cases they are; what the department is doing about remedying this, so it doesn't happen again, and so forth. The insurance representative, and the representative of the sheriff's department is going to be pretty busy on this thing.

Mr. Carmichael, So these meetings will be held during work hours?

Com. Harper, We haven't decided that yet. I mean the committee…

Mr. Carmichael, Because you've got employees in here.

Com. Harper, The committee would decide that, okay.

Mr. Carmichael, You've got employees in here is what I'm…

Com. Harper, And you know, Councilman, here's what I thought about. Waste Management, the Solid Waste District, meets four times a year after a commissioners' meeting, because there's a lot of people there, and I thought maybe we could work out some schedule like that, where we meet in the afternoon.

Mr. Carmichael, This would be a daytime meeting.

Com. Harper, Right.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, because you've got employees in here.

Com. Harper, I understand.

Mr. Carmichael, Anybody wish to serve on that? If not, I'll…

Mr. Poparad, I'll…

Mr. Carmichael, Serve, oh.

Mr. Poparad, Go ahead. Go ahead, fine.

Mr. Steele, Please do, Bill.

Mr. Carmichael, I'll serve on it for the period of this year.

Com. Harper, Fine, great, and as you see, there's someone from the sheriff's department, the county attorney. We'll call around, and get the first meeting scheduled.

Mr. Carmichael, Notify our secretary when the meeting will be held.

Com. Harper, Thank you. The other thing I take, I did sit down, you asked me last time to sit down with Mr. Steele, Mr. Poparad, which I did do, and we discussed. The commissioners have already passed a motion encouraging the forming of this committee to study some of these budgetary issues, and I had discussed it with them. I don't know, but perhaps they want to take further action on it tonight.

Mr. Poparad, Yes, we, the proposal is for a joint committee between the commissioners, the council to study x-amount of issues, whatever we decide. But the problem that we discussed is the fact that, let's use Sheila for example. We're going to need an employee, probably in the evening, and we're going to have to have a budget of some sort to pay the person who keeps the notes, records, whatever word.
Mr. Carmichael, Why are you meeting in the evening?

Mr. Poparad, Probably because that's, well, everybody else is working, I guess, we're not all retired, so.

Com. Harper, We discussed, number one, if we did this, we wanted to make sure it was open to the public, and set it at a time when the public could come and hear these discussions. I think that's important, and we listed many areas. I think Mr. Poparad has got some of them listed in many of the areas that at least the three of us discussed it; we need more discussion, and there's many, many areas. One of them came up tonight where you have an employee, and the minute you put on that employee, are you budgeting the $10,000 in the commissioners' budget. So many of these different things that we suggest studying.
So the proposal was to do it in the evening when the public could attend and hear these discussions, and try to work out some of these problems. The state bailout money that has to be paid back. We have 200-some cars, and we don't have a regular replacement program--a steady replacement program--in effect. So many of these different things, so that was the suggestion. And I think the ball is sort of in the Council's court, because the commissioners have passed the motion endorsing this idea of setting up this committee.

Mr. Steele, So you want us to pass a motion, Bob, so it would make it official on our side.

Com. Harper, I think so, but let me ask you to do that.

Mr. Steele moved for the Council to join the Commissioners' committee to discuss County issues. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

Mr. Steele, Thanks, Bob.

Com. Harper, Thank you.

SHERIFF'S PENSION

Mr. Carmichael, Bill, I've got a couple of things. Are you ready?

Mr. Poparad, Yes, right there…

Mr. Carmichael, They're not on your agenda.

Mr. Poparad, The any other matter that may come.

Mr. Carmichael, Go ahead.

Mr. Poparad, Referencing the sheriff's merit board, the 1% deduction, the Merit Board obviously sent us a letter about that. So what I think we need to do is to make a motion to have Sandy return the 1% to the officers as soon as the bank returns the money to her. Is that a fair analogy?

Mrs. Vuko, Yes.

Mr. Poparad moved to authorize the Auditor to return the 1% deduction withheld since January 1, 2003 to the Sheriff's Department Merit Officers. Mr. Steele seconded, motion carried on a unanimous voice vote.

HIRING FREEZE

Mr. Poparad, And last, but not least. Of course I'll probably get yelled at for this, but with all this that's going on with the State not certifying the budget, not knowing the revenue. I mean the rumblings have been we might have to cut. I think it would be in our best interest to re-institute the hiring freeze until things settle down---just let the dust settle.

Mr. Poparad moved to re-institute the hiring freeze, effective immediately, until further word is received from the State regarding the budget.
Mr. Poparad, Everything just stops right where it is until all this dust settles, and we know where we stand with the State, because