fPORTER COUNTY COUNCIL
October 29, 2002

The Porter County Council met on Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 7:00 p.m., in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana - Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Members present were Carole Knoblock, Karen Martin, John Ruge, President Barbara Stroud and William Carmichael and Karen Conover, both who were not present at roll call. Also present was Attorney David Hollenbeck, Auditor Sandra Vuko, Jamie Dziabo and Jan Balcerak.

Ms. Stroud called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, all of you received your minutes for the September 19th and October 1st meeting. Does anyone have any corrections or additions that they would like to make at this time?

Mrs. Knoblock, I didn't receive my minutes.

Ms. Stroud, You didn't receive them at home?

Mrs. Knoblock, No, not that I know of.

Ms. Stroud, You should have received them. This one was just two sheets, and the October one was thicker, much thicker. Are you sure you don't have it with you?

Ms. Balcerak, You should have gotten them with your letter and the agenda.

Ms. Stroud, With the letter that she sent with the agenda.

Mrs. Knoblock, I probably did. I'm sorry, but I haven't read them. Could we wait until the next meeting to adopt them?

Ms. Stroud, What are the wishes of the rest of the Council?

Ms. Martin moved to table the approval of the September 19, 2002 and October 1, 2002 minutes until the December 3, 2002 meeting. Mr. West seconded, motion carried.

Mrs. Knoblock, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're welcome.

At this point, Mrs. Conover joined the meeting.

FIRST READING

Mrs. Vuko, read the Notice to Taxpayers.

At this point, Mr. Carmichael joined the meeting.

HIGHWAY - LRS 25
Transfer

$80,000 from account 2362.391 Bituminous into account 2360.391 Stone

Ms. Stroud, First on the agenda, the Highway Department. Good evening.

Jack Jarnecke, Evening.

Ms. Stroud, I see you want to…

Mr. Jarnecke, We have a request here to transfer $80,000 from account 2362 Bituminous to account 2360 Stone.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. I need a motion to approve the transfer.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds, submitted by Highway LRS, the amount of $80,000. Mr. West seconded, motion carried.

Mr. Jarnecke, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you.

CENTER REASSESSMENT 108.10
Transfer

$1,766.84 from account 3210 Travel into account 3950 Contractual Services
$1,100 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 3950 Contractual Services
$87.01 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 3950 Contractual Services
$340 from account 1120 Hourly into account 3950 Contractual Services

Ms. Stroud, Next on the agenda is Center Township. Good evening.

Susan Larson, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, this is Fund 108.10. This is not, so people understand, this is not a general fund. You want to transfer $1,766.84 from Travel to Contractual Services.

Mrs. Larson, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, Which is account 3950. You want to transfer $1,100 from Training & Education to Contractual Services, which again is account 3950. You want to transfer $87.01 from Office Supplies to Contractual Services, and you want to transfer $340 from Hourly to Contractual Services. Is that correct?

Mrs. Larson, Yes it is.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I need a motion to approve.

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Center Reassessment, the amounts of $1,766.84, $1,100, $87.01 and $340. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you, Mrs. Larson.

Mrs. Larson, Thank you.

PORTAGE REASSESSMENT 108.11
Transfer

$32,000 from account 1120 Hourly into account 3950 Contractual Services

Ms. Stroud, Portage Township Reassessment. Good evening, Mr. Scott and your assistant here. How are you? Busy I'm sure.

Mr. Scott, Good luck to all of those that are running.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you. Okay, for Portage Reassessment, Fund 108.11, you'd like to transfer $32,000 from Hourly to Contractual Services. That's from account 1120, again to account 3950. Is that correct?

Mr. Scott, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I need a motion to approve.

Mr. Carmichael, I have a question.

Ms. Stroud, I'm sorry.

Mr. Carmichael, What's the contractual, John? Do you have somebody doing some special assessing for you?

Mr. Scott, Yes, it's the doing the condition. The State in their imminent wisdom right at the end of the reassessment said that now we have to go out, and every single house, every single garage, every single shed, has to be conditioned within a neighborhood. So I'm hiring one person to do it, because I figured that way I don't have to pay but one person to go out within each neighborhood, and it will be more, you know, it will be more uniform. Otherwise it's just going to be muddled.

Mr. Carmichael, Can one person do all of that?

Mr. Scott, Yes. Yes, the reason why we are doing it contractual, we doubt it, it would be impossible at this time to get those 18,000 parcels done this year. But by contractual we can go ahead and we can encumber the monies so that he can continue to do it next year. That was the reason why we did the whole thing to begin with.

Ms. Stroud, So you don't expect to have it all finished this year? I mean, this…

Mr. Scott, No.

Ms. Stroud, In this one?

Mr. Scott, And we will be giving quite a bit of money back. I think they have the amount of money we have in reassessment right now that's left; how much is there?

Mrs. Dziabo, Under yours?

Mr. Scott, Yes. And instead of when we did reassessment, instead of going out and charging the, or giving the field people $3 apiece to do them, we gave them $2. So we, all those parcels, we saved all of that money because we knew at the end of road that the State…

Mr. Carmichael, Is 18,000 what you have in Portage?

Mr. Scott, What?

Mr. Carmichael, Parcels.

Mr. Scott, 18.

Mr. Carmichael, 18,000?

Mr. Scott, Yes, I shake my head every time I think about it. It's scary.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, it's a tremendous amount.

Kathryn Scott, And we have a contract signed by the commissioners.

Mr. Scott, Yes, and we do have a contract signed. We came in here for a copy machine before, and we don't have that new copy machine, so we don't have a whole of these.

Ms. Stroud, What you're saying is you're going to give this, we can share your one copy. Is that what you are saying, John.

Mr. Scott, Yes, this is the contract.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you.

Mr. Scott, When we were with the commissioners we asked them to have the county attorney to help us to make out the contract so it was feasible to use it that way. We used the money up until January; then we'll have to encumber that money for the rest of the year.

Mr. Carmichael, She had a…

Mrs. Dziabo, Are you talking about the Hourly? How much you have left in the Hourly?

Mr. Scott, Reassessment, yes.

Mrs. Dziabo, You have $76,142.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Portage Reassessment, the amount of $32,000. Mr. West seconded, motion carried.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you, John. Would you like your copy back? I didn't want to take your one copy away from you. Hopefully you'll get your new machine soon.

Mr. Scott, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're welcome.

PCADOS 34
Transfer

$900 from account 2250 Other Supplies into account 3740 Land & Buildings
$331 from account 3510 Power into account 3740 Land & Buildings
$500 from account 4410 Office Equipment over $100 into account 3740 Land & Buildings
$500 from account 4440 Furniture & Fixtures into account 3740 Land & Buildings
$200 from account 3110 Printing other than Office Supplies into account 3420 Bldg/Liability/Comp Coverage
$54 from account 3340 Advertising into account 3420 Bldg/Liability/Comp Coverage

Ms. Stroud, Next on the agenda is PCADOS. Good evening.

Neil Hannon, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, I see you want to do some transferring around. Again, this is not a general fund, for those of you in the audience. This is Fund 34. This is established mainly by fees.

Mr. Hannon, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, I mean, supported mainly by the fees that are brought in. Okay, I think we can take this all as one. You want to transfer $900 from Other Supplies to Land & Buildings. Correct?

Mr. Hannon, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, That's from account 2250 to account 3740. You want to take $331 from Power to Land & Buildings from account 3510 to account 3740. Okay, you want to transfer $500 from Office Equipment to Land & Buildings, that's account 4410 to account 3740. You want to transfer $200 from Printing to Building Liability, and you want to take $54 from Advertising and put it in the Building Liability. Is that correct?

Mr. Hannon, That's correct.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, does anyone have any questions? Okay, we need a motion to approve this.

Mrs. Dziabo, Barb.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mrs. Dziabo, He has one more, a $500 one.

Ms. Stroud, Oh, there were two $500 ones on here. I'm sorry. $500 from Office Equipment to Land & Buildings, then $500 from Furniture & Fixtures to Land and Buildings.

Mr. Hannon, What had happened was our rent for our Portage went up in August is part of that.

Ms. Stroud, Okay.

Mr. Hannon, And it wasn't anticipated then, the insurance cost for liability insurance was going to be going up too, so that's the reason…

Ms. Stroud, Did the…

Mr. Hannon, That we are doing that.

Ms. Stroud, Contract run out in June. Is that how it, I mean…

Mr. Hannon, In August.

Ms. Stroud, In August.

Mr. Hannon, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, You contract from August to August on it?

Mr. Carmichael, Is that a yearly contract?

Mr. Hannon, Yes, for the space up at the Portage Mall.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, I know where it is.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, we need a motion to approve this if there aren't any other questions.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by PCADOS, the amounts of $900, $331, $500, $500, $200 and $54. Mr. West seconded, motion carried.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you very much.

Mr. Hannon, Thank you.

ADULT PROBATION USER FEES 48.43
Additional Appropriation

$7,500 into account 1120 Hourly

Ms. Stroud, Okay, Neil again. Adult Probation User Fees are on here. Okay, this Fund 48.43, in the amount of $7,500 from account 1120. This is an additional.

Mr. Hannon, Yes, out of Probation User Fees. What had happened is, we've lost six employees during the year and have had to hire people part-time to keep the workflow going. Then we also had an additional one person on medical leave or maternity leave. Then we also lost the support staff, Jan Proctor. So we were hiring people hourly part-time, then what I've done is, at the suggestion of the Council last month, I continued to keep the part-time employee as long as we could. I then hired her into a full-time position, so we're going to be returning more than $14,000 to the county general tax fund, but this is all from Probation User Fees, separate fund, 48. So we need additional money to be able to pay the hourly employees that we have currently while we are filling those vacancies. As of today, we are actually, we've depleted our part-time hourly account just trying to keep up with the workflow.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, does anyone have any questions for Mr. Hannon?

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Adult Probation User Fees, the amount of $7,500. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I think that's it, Mr. Hannon. Thank you.

Mr. Hannon, Thank you very much.

PARKS OPERATING 127.85
Additional Appropriation

$1,900 into account 1110 Salaries
$2,260 into account 3980 Event Expenses
Ms. Stroud, Parks & Recreation, Mr. Melendez.

Ed Melendez, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, Good evening, how are you?

Mr. Melendez, Just fine.

Ms. Stroud, Just fine. Okay, again this is the Parks Operating; this is Fund 127.85. You are asking for an additional of $1,900 to Salaries and $2,260 to Event Expenses. Is that correct?

Mr. Melendez, That is correct.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, does anyone have any questions? I need a motion to approve.

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Parks Operating, the amounts of $1,900 and $2,260. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried.

Mr. Melendez, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you. I'm sure you're getting ready for the holidays out there.

Mr. Melendez, Starting this weekend.

Ms. Stroud, Okay.

PROSECUTOR IV-D 182.35
Additional Appropriation

$2,635 into account 1130 Overtime
$230 into account 1210 FICA
$135 into account 1230 PERF

Ms. Stroud, Okay, Prosecutor IV-D, Fund 182. Good evening. Okay, this is Prosecutor Douglas' office. Again, this is Fund 182.35. He is asking for an additional of $2,535 to Overtime, $230 to FICA and $135 to PERF. I'll go through it. Fund 182.35, the amount of $2,635, account 1130 for Overtime, Fund 182.35, in the amount of $230 to account 1210 for FICA, and Fund 182.35, the amount of $135 to account 1230 for PERF. Correct?

Lois Holiday, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, does anyone have any questions on this?

Mr. Carmichael, This money is going to be reimbursed by the State. Is that correct?

Ms. Holiday, Yes, it's the same thing I was in here for a couple of months ago. We were doing a large cleanup project that the State mandated and they approved overtime, but we have to pay the money out of county funds up front, and then they reimburse us back. So we needed to get the money into this account so we have the funds to pay it to begin with. They originally gave us $5,500. We needed more, this is an additional appropriation they've given to us here, and I may have to come back and do this one more time, if what we have here is not quite enough to get the work done.

Ms. Stroud, What was, excuse me, I'm sorry.

Ms. Holiday, I was going to say they've offered additional funds if we need that to finish it.

Ms. Stroud, That's what I was going to ask you. They have offered to pay us if it costs more.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Prosecutor 182.35, the amounts of $2,635, $230 and $135. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you very much.

Ms. Holiday, Thank you.
JAIL - HOUSING OF FEDERAL PRISONERS 217.32
Additional Appropriation

$10,000 into account 1130 Overtime
$765 into account 1210 FICA
$450 into account 1230 PERF
Request tabled until December

Ms. Stroud, Good evening. I see this is the fund that was established to put in the money for federal prisoners. I mean, the money that was coming from the federal government.

Chief Deputy Dave Lain, That's correct.

Ms. Stroud, Fund 07.32. No, that's the wrong one. I'm sorry.

Chief Deputy Lain, Fund 217?

Ms. Stroud, I'm sorry, I skipped a page. The Housing of Federal Prisoners is next on the agenda so that's what we are doing first. My book was out of order. Fund 217.032, you are asking for $10,000 to account 1130 for Overtime. You are asking for $765 to account 1210 for FICA, and you're asking for $450 in line 1230 for PERF. Is that correct?

Chief Deputy Lain, That's correct.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, does anybody have any questions they would like to ask here?

Mrs. Knoblock, What's the overtime for?

Chief Deputy Lain, Well, as we, as we anticipated, we are, we are stretched as far as staffing is concerned. We, we need to, we need to pay overtime not only for, we still have, we still have the move that has, that has yet, I believe to be paid for in full overtime, and we are, we have to pay people overtime to keep, to keep shifts full staffed, as well as transporting to, to the courts and other, other duties that are required by the jail staff.

Mrs. Knoblock, I read an article in the paper that said that they wouldn't need anymore overtime, that they were going to make it okay with what they had; with what we gave you the last time.

Chief Deputy Lain, Well that's certainly, I, I've never made that statement, nor has the sheriff, to my knowledge.

Mrs. Knoblock, Well I think a Mr. Snider.

Ms. Stroud, You need to speak up so the people can hear you.

Ms. Martin, I think also it stated that the sheriff, there was $3,500 used for the move in overtime.

Mrs. Knoblock, There was what?

Ms. Martin, There was only $3,500 moved, used in overtime for the move.

Mrs. Knoblock, Out of the 15 that we gave them?

Sgt. Mike Krawczyk, That 15 was for police; we're talking jail now.

Mrs. Knoblock, Oh, I'm sorry.

Ms. Martin, I thought when you came to us with for $15,000 you said that would include the move.

Sgt. Krawczyk, That was for, that went for the police side.

Ms. Martin, Okay, so how much of that was spent for the police side for the move? So you are saying you have overtime for the police to move to the jail, then you've got the jailers for overtime, and now you are asking for $10,000 more for overtime?

Sgt. Krawczyk, Yes, in the jail.

Ms. Martin, But wasn't that money set up? That $25 fee for individuals, wasn't that supposed to be used for overtime also?

Sgt. Krawczyk, Yes. There are some issues with the Auditor's Office on how to access those funds the way the current ordinance or whatever it is. Is that not correct?

Ms. Martin, How many federal prisoners do we have in the jail at this point in time?

Sgt. Krawczyk, We have two.

Ms. Martin, We have two federal prisoners, and we're going to use $10,000 of federal prisoner money for overtime.

Sgt. Krawczyk, That money…

Ms. Martin, I guess my question would be, where's the sheriff now? I mean, he's asking…

Chief Deputy Lain, At this moment…

Ms. Martin, We gave $15,000 last year, I mean last month or at the beginning of the month; 27 days ago for overtime.

Chief Deputy Lain, And at that time we has for $20,000 and we…

Ms. Martin, Could I finish please?

Chief Deputy Lain, And we anticipated that we would need additional.

Ms. Martin, Could I finish please?

Chief Deputy Lain, Sorry, I thought you were finished.

Ms. Martin, No, I wasn't; 27 days ago we gave you $15,000 for overtime. You are now asking for $10,000 of overtime for federal prisoners, and you only have two federal prisoners. You are asking for an additional $5,000 of overtime for the Sheriff's Department, so I guess what concerns me now is you're talking about $30,000 of overtime within a 27-day period.

Chief Deputy Lain, We're not asking for the additional overtime in the jail for the federal prisoners. That is money; those are monies that already exist from the agreement reached with the federal government over the housing of the federal prisoners. We have ongoing jail costs. We have staffing problems.

Ms. Martin, You were given ten additional employees though. Correct? And you don't even have the federal prisoners in yet, but you're still asking for $10,000 in overtime. So I guess I'm confused here because you do have ten additional employees that was supposed to be used for the federal prisoners, but you only have two federal prisoners.

Chief Deputy Lain, We had, we, we have ten additional employees for the new jail facility, not for federal prisoners.

Ms. Martin, Well that's how it was proposed because of the additional federal prisoners. I guess my concern would be, I mean, all this overtime, we still have another meeting to go, and whose to say what's going on, but I would prefer that the overtime be held until the Sheriff comes before us and requests that information and gives us more detail, because we don't see numbers. We're talking about, you needed $15,000 and we gave $15,000…
Chief Deputy Lain, I, I…

Ms. Martin, We have no idea how it was calculated, what it was to be used. I read in the paper you used $3,500 for overtime. I know because I saw it down Smoke Road. It was eight hours, how it occurred. There were two motor police, there were two vans, and there were two officers driving down Smoke Road to deliver the prisoners. If I'm not wrong, there were four trips, approximately. So I'm a little confused as to why all this overtime is needed. I personally, from my standpoint, since we've already appropriated $15,000, I would prefer that this be held until the Sheriff comes before us. Because personally, we don't get the answers we need from the two of you. Last time we didn't get the numbers. We asked you how much was for the additional move, and how much was for the other things. Nothing is broken down; all we get is $15,000 and no details.

Chief Deputy Lain, Well, as an example, what you saw was, was in fact the transport between two facilities. I think you're overlooking the fact that during that transition we were operating two jails. We had, we had to staff the old jail and the new jail, plus we had to have additional staff in that new facility to process the prisoners as they moved in. So just because you saw a couple of motorcycles between the two facilities doesn't mean…

Ms. Martin, That's not all I said, sir.

Chief Deputy Lain, That's where it.

Ms. Martin, For clarification purposes, Mr. Lain.

Chief Deputy Lain, Certainly.

Ms. Martin, I, my point still is, until the Sheriff can come and give us the numbers and break it down for us, because personally, I don't feel the two of you do a very good job in that respect.

Sgt. Krawczyk, What numbers are you asking for, Ma'am?

Ms. Martin, I want it broken down, how many hours was for overtime for transport; how many hours were overtime to move the offices for each individual officer.

Sgt. Krawczyk, That, that information is all in the Auditor's Office on the timecards. We, we…

Ms. Martin, I didn't ask from the Auditor. You are coming and asking us for money. I'm asking for the numbers. I would suggest you present it with your request.

Sgt. Krawczyk, We do when…

Ms. Martin, It's not in with…

Sgt. Krawczyk, We turn in the overtime.

Ms. Martin, My request, Sir.

Sgt. Krawczyk, When we turn in the overtime cards.

Ms. Martin, Sir, you're requesting money from us. I'm requesting the information.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Well there's a zero balance in our jail overtime right now, because of obligations to our employees.

Mr. Ruge, Will this money be reimbursed by the federal government?

Sgt. Krawczyk, With…

Chief Deputy Lain, This money exists already.

Mr. Ruge, Will this money…

Chief Deputy Lain, All of these monies, all of these monies exist in our budget currently.

Mr. Ruge, Will this come back to the County?

Ms. Stroud, No.

Sgt. Krawczyk, It's an advancement from the federal government to help pay for this.
Mr. Ruge, Will it come back?

Sgt. Krawczyk, We already have it.

Mr. Ruge, What?

Sgt. Krawczyk, We already have it, Sir.

Mr. Ruge, For overtime and these things?

Sgt. Krawczyk, Yes, this is money that we have already received from the federal government to help pay for the operation of the jail.

Ms. Stroud, That's right, and it was set up in a line item so that we could oversee the spending of that.

Mr. Ruge, It's in the general fund now?

Sgt. Krawczyk, No, it's a separate…

Ms. Stroud, No, separate.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Fund.

Ms. Stroud, There reason it was set up like this is so that we could oversee some of this. What is the wish of the Council? Do you want to table it until the next meeting?

Mrs. Knoblock moved to table the additional appropriation request submitted by Jail-Housing of Federal Prisoners until the December meeting.

Mrs. Conover, Question.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mrs. Conover, There's no money in the general fund overtime account right now?

Sgt. Krawczyk, Our overtime fund is depleted for the jail officers.

Mrs. Conover, And we have…

Ms. Martin, Point of order.

Mrs. Conover, Two months.

Ms. Stroud, Point of order, there was, I'm sorry, Karen, I didn't mean to cut you off.

Mrs. Conover, Okay, sorry.

Ms. Stroud, There needs to be a second to the motion.

Ms. Martin seconded.

Ms. Stroud, You know, I'm sorry, you can go ahead.

Mrs. Conover, Okay. Is there, do you anticipate any more overtime for the balance of the year?

Sgt. Krawczyk, We're having daily overtime, because of manning issues in the jail. Staffing issues is a better word.

Ms. Martin, How many open positions do you have now in the jail?

Sgt. Krawczyk, I don't believe we have any. Do we?

Chief Deputy, I think…
Sgt. Krawczyk, We have LPN openings.

Ms. Martin, How many open jailers?

Mrs. Dziabo, Do you have two positions open somewhere else? In the Sheriff's or…

Chief Deputy Lain, We, we've got two; we have two road officer positions available.

Mrs. Dziabo, In the Sheriff's.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Yes.

Mrs. Dziabo, Okay, so you have two positions in the Sheriff's. That's the only two that I know about.

Sgt. Krawczyk, And the medical staff that we're advertising, trying to.

Mr. Carmichael, Somebody in the audience wants to say something.

Ms. Stroud, I'm sorry.

Ed Stefanko, I am very concerned as a taxpayer. I have been to these meetings, as you well know. I was present when the sheriff received additional people, begging for the transitional team, for additional manpower for the new jail. Yet I understand that the new jail was constructed to be more efficient and to use less manpower. However, I recognize the fact that we are to house federal prisoners. So housing federal prisoners and with the new efficient jail, we shouldn't have even needed more people. We should have used less people per man, per x-number of people jailed in the facility.
Now as far as overtime goes, we could have hired three or four buses from the DOC, paid each bus driver $100, fill their gas tanks, for $500 we could have transported those prisoners in two hours; in two lousy hours. I don't understand the overtime. Every time I come to these meetings the Sheriff's Department is chewing up our taxpayers' money. In two hours those prisoners could have been transported. I read an article in the paper tonight where these are all super dangerous people. You well recognize the fact that 90% of the people in that jail are there because of minor offenses--minor, very minor. You might have a dozen that are dangerous; 50, 60, 70% of them are there because they were drunks; 20, 30% are there because they are pot-smoking kids. I don't understand why we incurred, and the Sheriff's Department has not explained anything to me or the public why we needed this charade of parades through town to transport prisoners. You could have marched them there except for a dozen, and not a one of them would have tried to escape. They could have walked it.
The commissary should be over-funded. When we have prisoners paying $3 for a little package of Raman Noodles that costs $.08 wholesale in the commissary, $25 for a headset so they can listen to the TV, $25 booking fees, and on, and on, and on. It should be a moneymaker, but they are always here begging for money. I personally, as a representative of the public, I am very, very displeased and unhappy with the Sheriff's Department.
The new facility, and I read in tonight's paper was built under the direction of the sheriff-- hands-on sheriff. You have had at least one cellblock flooded everyday since it's been there. You've got the sewers backing up, the toilets backing up, the water pipes breaking, the computers going down, the doors that don't lock. You've got so many problems in this jail, and I'm beginning to wonder who did what and why. It's awfully, awfully expensive. I thank you for your time.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, just as a reminder, this fund was set up with money that did come in from the federal government for the housing of federal prisoners. This is not general fund money. A separate line item was put in so that the commissioners and ourselves being the fiscal body could oversee the spending out of that account. What is the wish of the Council at this time?

Ms. Martin, We have a motion on the table.

Ms. Stroud, The motion was to table it until the next meeting.

Ms. Martin, Call for the question.

Motion carried on the following vote:

Carmichael-YesConover-No
Knoblock-YesMartin-Yes
Ruge-YesStroud-Yes
West-No

Ms. Stroud, Okay, the ayes have it.

Ms. Martin, I only have one concern here, is the fact that they've already accrued overtime and there are outstanding bills if I am understanding.

Sgt. Krawczyk, That's correct.

Mrs. Conover, And to just echo that concern that there isn't any overtime money and something happens and they need staff.

Mr. West, Karen, how much more do you want it spelled out what they are going to need the money for? I don't remember discussing how they got to present it. The, the million dollars was in there from the federal prisoners, and they are spelling out what they want to use it for. Now someone wants to break it down farther than that.

Ms. Martin, Well, you know what, we spent this money I don't know how many times. You know part of it went for software, some of it went for additional employees and support, and when are we going to run out? Have you calculated that? Have you taken that into consideration?

Mr. West, No.

Ms. Martin, I didn't think so.

Mr. West, No, I didn't. But how far do you want him to break it down? How far do you want him to go?

Ms. Martin, Well I want to know if this is going to end of the year. I want to know if this is just going to be until the next meeting. I want to know how this is calculated. How much overtime is being used on a regular basis on first shift.

Mr. West, Well you and I aren't going to be here, but somebody pay attention to that.

Ms. Martin, Well, and that's the point. It needs to be brought up now because you and I aren't going to be here.

Mr. West, That's right. I don't recall us ever spelling out how they have to present that.

Ms. Martin, Because we don't have…

Mrs. Knoblock, Well I think they should.

Ms. Martin, Many departments that have overtime, Leon, besides this one. It's a big difference. Very few departments have overtime. We don't have patrolman sitting behind desks or doing process serving, but then charging overtime for the other employees to be on the road.

Mrs. Knoblock, I think they should be accountable for where it's going. All of the rest of the departments have to say, so I think we should have a list.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Could I ask a question please?

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Could I have it spelled out exactly what accountability you're asking for?

Ms. Stroud, I think what they are saying is that since this is the fund that was established by, I mean, with the money from the federal government, and since at this point in time that right now we're housing, as you said, two federal prisoners out there, there is a concern about how much money is even still left in the fund, number one. Number two, requesting the overtime and the PERF and so on ahead of time before you even, you know, have your prisoners in there.

Sgt. Krawczyk, The money was, that's for jail operating expenses. It's not strictly for federal prisoners. We just had a meeting with the US Marshal, the other, yesterday. And this isn't strictly for federal prisoners, this is…

Ms. Stroud, Well then that's what we are saying, we need to bring that information in to us so…

Sgt. Krawczyk, But what…

Ms. Stroud, That we know what…

Sgt. Krawczyk, Information, Ma'am.

Ms. Stroud, You are using it for.

Ms. Martin, So you are saying from now until when, if you only have two federal prisoners--and I guess this is one of my questions--and right now requesting $10,000 for overtime, what are you going to do when you have 80?

Sgt. Krawczyk, My point is, this money isn't…

Ms. Martin, I asked a question.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Only for federal prisoners. I'm trying to answer it. It is not only for federal prisoners. It was fronted by the Marshal Service for operating expenses of the new jail for us to use. We only have the two right now because that's all they've brought to us. It's not strictly for federal prisoners.

Ms. Martin, No, you're missing the point.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Well that's okay, I'm asking for it to be clarified.

Ms. Martin, Okay, out of the 1.3 million sign-on bonus, how much went towards the software--the computer aspect--that was approved by the commissioners? I thought it was…

Chief Deputy Lain, I, I, Well I'm…

Ms. Martin, Almost $600,000.

Chief Deputy Lain, Thinking about $600,000.

Ms. Martin, $600,000. That leaves $700,000, okay. Of that $700,000 you allocated ten employees out of that including benefits for a total of how much?

Sgt. Krawczyk, $200,000.

Ms. Martin, That's for this year only.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Right.

Ms. Martin, What's it going to be for next year?

Sgt. Krawczyk, At that time…

Ms. Martin, Right now you've got $800,000, $500,000 left.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Right.

Ms. Martin, What are you going to use for next year?

Sgt. Krawczyk, As of the meeting with the Marshal yesterday, we will start to get our federal prisoners soon, and that will start generating the money.

Ms. Martin, But you didn't take in consideration when you calculated the cost of the prisoners--the room. You calculated the people, you calculated the benefits, you calculated the overhead with reference to the lights, but you did not calculate the room at all. You did not take…
Sgt. Krawczyk, What, I don't understand…

Ms. Martin, The square footage.

Sgt. Krawczyk, What you mean by room.

Ms. Stroud, Square foot.

Ms. Martin, Well are you not renting a room to them? Do you not have to charge them for it or is it free gratis?

Chief Deputy Lain, Its $40 a day.

Ms. Martin, $40 a day, but you have total cost right now of $36 a day. Tell me what part of that $40 a day, how much is allocated to the building itself. You have to have a square footage cost, correct? I mean, this…

Sgt. Krawczyk, We already…

Ms. Martin, It took us how long for the jail.

Sgt Krawczyk, We already broke, we broke that down and at past meetings with the commissioners…

Ms. Martin, You did not break down the cost of the room. That's my question.

Sgt. Krawczyk, We broke down the cost of the overhead, the lights.

Ms. Martin, The cost of the room. The room.

Chief Deputy Lain, Okay. We don't know what the floor space costs.

Ms. Martin, Well you need to find that out, because it should be included in the cost.

Chief Deputy Lain, Okay, floor space.

Ms. Stroud, Excuse me. Mr. Uzelac, did you have a question?

George Uzelac, Yes, I can maybe clarify some answers and questions. I am chairman of the sub-committee--efficiency sub-committee--one of three created to study, first of all to help you guys. To clarify Mr. West's comment, the $1,000,000 you got from the federal government is not $1,000,000, its $1,333,000. The sole purpose for that money per the contract with the US Marshal is construction of a new jail. Not as this gentleman says, hiring staff or what have you. Your hiring of employees to facilitate the correction and detention of federal prisoners is at $40 a day. The state average is $56 a day. And as, Karen Martin--councilman Martin--brought out, your $34 and some cents that you're estimating your cost doesn't include one penny allocation of the construction costs of the jail. So for all intensive purposes your $34 and some cents daily cost ain't worth the paper its written on, gentleman. Okay?
And as for that $1,333,000, you took a bond issue for construction of the jail. You then received the $1,333,000 from the feds, specifying in that agreement dated January 17th, sole purpose, construction of the jail. That $1,333,000 should be transferred by this body to the county bond fund and utilized to pay principal and interest of the bond payments for the jail. Otherwise you're going to blow the money or somebody is going to want to blow it and…
Ms. Martin, Well they've already used $600,000 of it for computers, so there's only $700,000 left.

Mr. Uzelac, Well I don't know if you would consider computers as construction of the new jail.

Ms. Martin, Well its a hard cost, but that was a decision made by the commissioners and the sheriff.

Mr. Uzelac, No, computers are not a hard cost in the jail.

Ms. Martin, Well they consider it, so. So that's my concern. In all actuality, there's only $700,000 left, no including what they put, appropriating for the individuals.

Mr. Uzelac, Councilman, if you would read the, and I question that you did.

Ms. Martin, Oh no, I agree with you.

Mr. Uzelac, If you read…

Ms. Martin, That's my point.

Mr. Uzelac, The agreement, it specifically says construction of the new jail. That's it. Okay? It requires the US Marshals to monthly inspect the construction, etc. I would venture to say--and I'm not an attorney, something I'm proud of--that I don't think computers are valid items to be considered as quote, construction of the jail.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you.

Mr. Uzelac, Sorry. Thank you for the time.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I think a motion was made and seconded to table this until the next time.

Chief Deputy Lain, If I may, may I add a comment?

Ms. Stroud, Yes, sure.

Chief Deputy Lain, The monies that, that were garnered for that 1.3 million dollars, the County did need to, did need to prove that construction of the jail was at least past that point before those funds were allocated. The US Marshal Service is completely satisfied with the uses that that, with those funds as they have been appropriated thus far. The US Marshal was in the building yesterday as a matter of fact, and this is, this is certainly not out of the context of that agreement.

Ms. Martin, I would like to see that in writing then, that those funds can be used for these other additional purposes.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, moving on the next request.

JAIL - COUNTY CORRECTIONS 07.32
Additional Appropriation

$15,000 into account 2210 Gas, Fuel & Lubrication
$20,000 into account 2230 Food & Groceries
$10,000 into account 2410 Medical & Dental

Ms. Stroud, Jail/County Corrections, Fund 07.32. It's on the top of the second page for my councilmen on the agenda. You are asking for an additional $15,000 from, or to account 2210. Fund 07.32, the amount of $20,000 to account 2230 to Food & Groceries, and Fund 07.32, the amount of $10,000, line item 2410 Medical & Dental. Questions? Comments? Does anyone have any questions on this? This is 07.32 Fund. This is an additional appropriation from that fund to cover as they said, to cover the expenses of the gas, inmate food and medical care.

Mr. Ruge, Is this not, not the general fund?

Ms. Stroud, This is not general fund money, no.

Mr. Carmichael, Barbara.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, We've had this discussion, you might, I might refresh your memory concerning the gas account.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, I had asked for a report on the new equipment that's installed on the pumps to see where the usage occurs; whose using what, how much, when and where. You indicated to me you would supply me with that. Have you done that?

Sgt. Krawczyk, No.

Mr. Carmichael, Why?

Sgt. Krawczyk, The, the equipment then, the computer's functioning, it was just an oversight on my part. It's, the information is there.

Mr. Carmichael, Because I can't vote on this, you know, for this particular until I see that report. I had asked for this report. We had this conversation…

Ms. Martin, We both have for the last couple times they've been here. Because I think we asked for it in October, you mentioned that.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Yes, plus a long time ago. You're right.

Ms. Martin, Well I know, during budget also we asked for it and last year we asked for it, so.

Sgt. Krawczyk, We did generate one report, and it was available at one of, I forget which meeting it was, she just reminded me.

Ms. Stroud, Did you finally, all the software and so on finally came in?

Mr. Carmichael, Did I have a copy of that?

Sgt. Krawczyk, Sir, I don't know who had the copy of it, but…

Mr. Carmichael, I…

Sgt. Krawczyk, I know that report was generated.

Mr. Carmichael, I don't recall seeing any copies of that report, and…

Sgt. Krawczyk, Well I can see that you get one tomorrow.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, I appreciate that.

Ms. Martin, I think all the council members would like a copy.

Ms. Stroud, We all would like one.

Mr. Carmichael, I think you were present last year when we had talked about the additional $60,000 at the end of the year for the account, and I indicated to the sheriff at that time, when he runs out of gas the idea was he had to park them. It doesn't appear, is this the only additional appropriation in the gas fund we've had this year? We've done more than this.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Yes we have. We did one, I think, a couple of months ago.

Mr. Carmichael, How much was that for, do you remember?

Sgt. Krawczyk, I don't recall.

Mr. Carmichael, What was the original amount in the fund to start with?

Ms. Stroud, Can you check and see what's in their account.

Sgt. Krawczyk, That was one of the funds I believe that we cut to make the budget cuts, and I don't recall.

Mr. Carmichael, Well there was an amount of money left in there at that time.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Excuse me.
Mr. Carmichael, I said, there was an amount of money left in there at that time.

Sgt. Krawczyk, I don't understand.

Mr. Carmichael, It wasn't cut to zero.

Sgt. Krawczyk, No, it wasn't cut to zero. No sir, not by a long shot.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, let's see how much was in that account.

Chief Deputy Lain, I don't, I don't have those figures.

Mr. Carmichael, I know the sheriff had touted that computerized equipment to be able to satisfy himself and the Council on the gas usage; who, what, why, where and when is basically what he said, I guess. What was the original amount?

Ms. Stroud, Yes, what did they have, Jamie?

Mrs. Dziabo, They had $24,357.53, and its all been expended.

Ms. Martin, That was the total under the regular fund? The general fund?

Mrs. Dziabo, That's under, no, it's under this.

Ms. Stroud, The 07.

Ms. Martin, Okay, but how much was in the general fund for gas?

Mrs. Dziabo, The general fund?

Ms. Martin, Correct.

Mrs. Dziabo, In the general fund, their original budget was $110,000. Their adjusted budget was $90,315. Right now they have $208.55 left.

Mr. Carmichael, So it was 110…

Ms. Martin, So we spent $110,000.

Mr. Carmichael, $110,000 originally?

Ms. Martin, Yes.

Mrs. Dziabo, But it was adjusted with the February cuts.

Ms. Stroud, Adjusted to $90,000.

Mrs. Dziabo, It was adjusted to $90,315.

Mr. Carmichael, $90,000.

Ms. Stroud, $315.

Ms. Martin, Ten months.

Mr. Carmichael, And how much money have they had since then? Do you have a record of that?

Ms. Stroud, They had.

Ms. Martin, 20?

Mr. Carmichael, The additional appropriations.

Mrs. Dziabo, Let me get it to come up here. $315 worth of additional appropriations.

Mr. Carmichael, $15,000?

Mrs. Dziabo, $315.

Ms. Stroud, $315.

Mr. Carmichael, That's not right.

Ms. Stroud, That doesn't sound right.

Mrs. Conover, No, it doesn't.

Mrs. Dziabo, That's what I'm seeing in the detail here.

Ms. Martin, Is that just the general fund now?

Mrs. Dziabo, That's in the general fund.

Ms. Martin, Okay, now you said $24,000 was out of the county corrections fund so far to the point?

Mrs. Dziabo, Right.

Ms. Martin, So we've got $24,000 plus $90,000.

Mrs. Dziabo, Right.

Ms. Martin, So you're looking at $114,000 for ten months.

Mrs. Dziabo, There's $208.55 left.

Ms. Martin, So you're looking at approximately $10,000 a month in gas. So in all actuality, the $15,000 they are requesting here probably won't take them to the end of the year either. They are going to have to come back in December.

Ms. Stroud, How much totally is there in that fund?

Mrs. Dziabo, In the general?

Ms. Stroud, No, the 07.32.

Mrs. Dziabo, They have nothing left in there right now.

Ms. Stroud, There's nothing left in the county corrections fund?

Mrs. Dziabo, As far as their Gas, Fuel & Lube?

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mrs. Dziabo, They have nothing in that account.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Nothing in appropriations, what's the cash?

Mrs. Dziabo, The cash balance.

Ms. Stroud, What's their cash balance?

Mrs. Dziabo, On here it's showing me, cash base, let me look.

Sgt. Krawczyk, We should have $48,000, approximately $48,000 left in that account from last year's fund, and about, I don't remember the exact amount, I think it's 95, close to $96,000 that was just recently received for this year's funding.
Mrs. Dziabo, Okay. The cash balance in bank for Fund 007 is $128,221.42.

Ms. Stroud, Did everyone hear Jamie? It's $128,221.

Mrs. Dziabo, Cash in bank.

Ms. Stroud, That's cash in bank. Okay, what's the wish of the Council? Any other questions? Do you want to hold off? We can do it line item by line item.

Mr. Carmichael, Line item by line item.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. Line, the first one, there was, the request was from 07.32, the amount of $15,000 to account 2210 for Gas, Fuel & Lube. Okay, this is for an additional.

Mr. Ruge, How much is left?

Ms. Martin, They only have $200 left in the account.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Ms. Martin, That's the way I understand it.

Ms. Stroud, That's right.

Mr. Carmichael, $200.

Ms. Stroud, There's only $200 total right now?

Mrs. Dziabo, In the general.

Ms. Stroud, That's in the general fund, not in the, not in this one.

Ms. Martin, Right, so $200 is available for gas right now.

Ms. Stroud, Pardon?

Ms. Martin, That's all there is.

Mr. Carmichael, How much is gas a gallon now?

Robert Poparad, It depends.

Ms. Stroud, What was the 128, which one?

Mr. Carmichael, You don't know? Do you sell any?

Mr. Poparad, I'm just wondering what grade he has.

Mr. Carmichael, You don't sell any gas to anybody?

Mr. Poparad, Yes, I try wholesaling.

Mr. Carmichael, What are we paying for gas now days? Has it gone up tremendously over the period of a year?

Sgt. Krawczyk, It fluctuates monthly. Just like it does, just like it does for us retail customers, it's up and down.

Mr. Carmichael, Does his gas contract supplier goes through the commissioners?

Ms. Martin, But they have a top and a low. You know that.

Mr. Carmichael, Huh?

Ms. Martin, They have a top price…

Ms. Stroud, Top…

Ms. Martin, And a low of the…

Ms. Stroud, And low price.

Mr. Carmichael, Well I know. I know exactly how it operates. Do we, are we bidding fuel at this time, Dave?

Com. Dave Burrus, Sometime in November.

Mr. Carmichael, Do you recall what the last fuel bid was? I'm trying to get a price per gallon on this.

Com. Burrus, Not without looking.

Sgt. Krawczyk, It fluctuates, Sir.

Mr. Carmichael, It probably has an escalator clause in it, what they can build in.

Mrs. Conover, Leon, can you ask Barb to recognize me.

Mr. Leon, Barb, Karen.

Ms. Stroud, Karen, I'm sorry.

Mrs. Conover, Isn't this gas account to gas all vehicles, not just the sheriff's department, excepting the motor vehicle highway?

Ms. Stroud, I think so. I mean, they can answer…

Mr. Carmichael, Well that's…

Ms. Stroud, That, but I think so.

Mr. Carmichael, That's the reason I'm asking for the report so I can break it down and find out exactly what the percentages are between the various departments.

Mrs. Conover, Well if we've got the system up and running, we really need to address this issue at the next budget, and put a line item for gasoline for all the departments that are using gas. Because this has always been stuck in this particular budget.

Mr. Carmichael, Right.

Mrs. Conover, And it's kind of skewered numbers and maybe slanted. But my concern is, we have road officers and other people who are allocated cars and use the gasoline, and we can't just leave it with no money.

Ms. Martin, Well I don't think we have an option. I think it to be done.

Mrs. Conover, Right, yes.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Jail/County Corrections, the amounts of $15,000, $20,000 and $10,000. Mr. West seconded.

Mr. Ruge, There's only $200 in this fund?

Ms. Martin, There's $128,000.

Mr. Ruge, What?

Ms. Martin, $128,000. They only have $200 left for gas.
Mr. Ruge, There's only $200 left.

Ms. Martin, For gas.

Mr. Ruge, How can we pay it?

Ms. Martin, No.

Ms. Stroud, The whole fund.

Ms. Martin, The fund has $128,000. They only have $200 left right now for gas. But this fund has $128,000.

Ms. Stroud, That's why they are taking it out of this fund, John.

Mr. Ruge, Is it 128 or is it $200?

Ms. Stroud, No, $128,221 in this fund, that's why they are taking, that's why it's coming out of this fund, in the other line item, the general fund is where the $200 is. But in this fund there is $128,221, which is the 07 Fund. Okay?

Mr. Ruge, We could pay this?

Ms. Stroud, Yes. Call for the question.

Motion carried on the following vote:

Martin-YesRuge-Yes
Stroud-YesWest-Yes
Carmichael-NoConover-Yes
Knoblock-Yes

SHERIFF 01.05
Transfer

$5,000 from account 1110 Salaries into account 1130 Overtime
Request tabled until December

Ms. Stroud, Okay, the Sheriff's Department has a separate request. This is the general fund, 01.05 to transfer $5,000 from Salaries to Overtime. This is, does anyone have any questions on this?

Ms. Martin, Well I think we addressed the overtime issue about saying that that was going to wait until the Sheriff, in December, wasn't that the motion? All overtime was to be held until?

Ms. Stroud, Yes, but since this is a separate request, I think that, you know, we just need a motion to table it again, and go ahead that way. So I need a motion to table.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to table the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Sheriff until the December meeting. Ms. Martin seconded, motion carried on the following vote:

Carmichael-YesConover-Yes
Knoblock-YesMartin-YesRuge-YesStroud-Yes
West-No

Ms. Stroud, The ayes carry it.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Thank you.

SUPERIOR COURT 3 - JENT 01.38
Transfer

$700 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 3170 Interpreters
$100 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 3130 Training & Education, amended to $300

Ms. Stroud, The next one is Superior Court, Judge Jent.

Judge Julia Jent, Now I'm in the hot seat.

Ms. Stroud, You're going to be in a hot seat.

Judge Jent, I just need to transfer. I also, we need to change the request on the transfer for the Office Supplies to Training from $100 to $300. The budget is so tight that we never know what we are going to need. When my, my Interpreter money is gone. I'm using more interpreters this year than I ever had before and it's on an increase, so I'll probably be back next year doing the same thing.

Ms. Stroud, Judge Jent did speak to me about this, and she needed to increase that amount, like she said from $100 to $300. Correct?

Judge Jent, Right.

Ms. Stroud, So she wants to transfer $700 from Office Supplies to Interpreters, which is account 01.38, line item 2410-2110, to account--let's see how she's got this--01.38-2410 to 3170, that's the Interpreters. Then to transfer $300 from Office Supplies, account 01.38, line item 2110 to 01.38, 3130 Training & Education. Does anybody have any questions?

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds, submitted and amended by Superior Court 3, the amounts of $700 and $300. Ms. Martin seconded, motion carried.

Judge Jent, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you.

SURVEYOR 01.06
Transfer

$1,000 from account 1110 Salaries into account 1120 Hourly

Ms. Stroud, Okay, Surveyor Breitzke, what can we do for you. Let me find the right page here. You want to transfer $1,000 from Salaries to Hourly. Fund 01.06, the amount of $1,000 from account 1110 Salaries to account 1120 Hourly. Would you like to explain why or?

Kevin Breitzke, Well as you'll recall, last time I came and spoke to you about the fact that I had a full-time employee leave this past summer/early fall. We'll be returning more than $10,000 or there about, I believe, to the general fund. However, as I come to the year's end I find myself short help as I still have some people that have vacation time coming, etc. before the end of the year, which they've told me they will be taking.
In addition to that, we have a large amount of wonderful ditch splits. This specifically, our specific hourly person, and I've run out of part-time money about a month ago, she has done much of our ditch work. During the course of the year as parcels get divided, sold off, subdivided, we have assessments to these parcels, and we have to allocate them back into individual property ownerships. We have until March 1st to get all this paperwork into the Auditor, at the beginning of the year. Rather than flood her with a lot of paperwork, I'd like to try to get this staff done as close to the beginning of the year as possible, because of the shortage of employees and the whole situation. It's my hope that you would at least let me have this small amount of money just to make things a little bit more efficient to help with the rest of the county offices. Hopefully help alleviate some of the stress in our own office.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, the money was approved for an employee that has since left, as far as a full-time employee.

Mr. Breitzke, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, And the money is in the budget, was in the budget.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Surveyor, the amount of $1,000. Mr. West seconded, motion carried.
Mr. Breitzke, Thank you very much.

Ms. Stroud, You're welcome.

WEIGHTS & MEASURES 01.28
Transfer

$330 from account 3210 Travel into account 2250 Other Supplies

Ms. Stroud, Weights & Measures. No one is here? Okay, this is a transfer of $330 from Travel to Other Supplies. We can handle this without them being here, can't we?

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Weights & Measures, the amount of $330. Mrs. Conover seconded.

Ms. Balcerak, Yes, if you want to.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, we can handle this without them being here. From account 3210 to account 2250, a motion has been made and seconded.

Motion carried.

EXTENSION OFFICE 01.23
Transfer

$500 from account 3210 Travel into account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions

Ms. Stroud, Extension Office. Good evening.

Corrine Powell, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, How are you?

Ms. Powell, Real good, thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, you need to transfer, and you're asking for a transfer from Travel to Dues & Subscriptions in the amount of $500. This is Fund 01.23, again, 01.23, $500 from account 3210 to account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Extension Office, the amount of $500. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Ms. Powell, Thank you.

COMMISSIONERS 01.30
Transfer

$50 from account 3320 Legal Notices into account 3410 Official Bonds
$75 from account 3320 Legal Notices into account 3973 Change of Venue
$100 from account 3320 Legal Notices into account 3340 Advertising
$420 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 3130 Training & Education
$120 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 3410 Official Bonds

Ms. Stroud, The commissioners. Excuse me just a second. Okay, good evening, Com. Burrus.

Com. Burrus, Yes, good evening, Barb.

Ms. Stroud, How are you?

Com. Burrus, I'm fine. We have five transfer requests totaling $765.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, let me see what we have here. You want to transfer; I have to go back and forth because of the different papers here. Okay, from Fund 01.30, the amount of $50 from account 3320, which is Legal Notices to account 3410 for Official Bonds. Then you want to transfer again, Fund 01.30, $75 from 3320 Legal Notices to 3973 Change of Venue. I think we can take all these at one time. You want transfer from 01.30, $100 from account 3320 Legal Notices to account 3340 Advertising. And you want to transfer $420 from account 2110 Office Supplies to account 3130 Training & Education, and the last one is the amount of $120 from account 2110 Office Supplies to 3410 Official Bonds. Is that correct?

Com. Burrus, That's correct.

Ms. Stroud, I think Com. Burrus has put on here and if you want to explain each one or; I think you've done that on the papers that you handed in, but if…

Com. Burrus, I think it should be self-explanatory.

Ms. Stroud, The council members have any questions they would like to ask. I see you have one here for help wanted ads.

Com. Burrus, That's correct.

Ms. Stroud, Have you gotten a good response?

Com. Burrus, Well these are…

Ms. Stroud, For what positions?

Com. Burrus, I'm not sure I can answer that just this moment. I think the most recent one had to do with the Data Processing position that was filled.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, that's what I kind of thought that it was.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Commissioners, the amounts of $50, $75, $100, $420 and $120. Mr. West seconded, motion carried.


Mr. Carmichael, Dave, are you done with your request?

Com. Burrus, I believe so.

Mr. Carmichael, You know the Building Authority for the jail has not met recently. Are you aware of that?

Com. Burrus, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, What I'm wondering, if we've been notified by any lawyers or such of any lawsuits or problems that we're having with the jail with what was mentioned tonight by this gentleman who stood up. He said we had all kinds of problems, and I just wonder if we do really have problems, and if we do, I as a member of the Building Authority would like to be notified of those.

Com. Burrus, Okay there, I think I can address that from two points of view. Number one, the contractual closeout of the building is nearing the completion, and within a, as with any project of that size we do have some contested overages and contested claims. The majority of those have been negotiated to a satisfactory settlement to both parties, but there will probably, I would guess, be at least one lawsuit resulting out of that that will be adjudicated as a matter of that procedure.
The other thing that was addressed tonight is that with the movement of the prisoners, transfer of the prisoners into the building and occupying the cells, there certainly have been some bugs to be ironed out. Some of them may be very minor. Some of them may be less than minor. We're in contact with the project manager and also with the architect to see what kinds of responses we have to, inquiring about those problems.
As he mentioned some of them involve the toilet facilities, and some of them also involve shower facilities. We are aware of the problems that exist. We've been talking to the jail people, and I'm under the impression at this point that the toilet problem is being resolved but I don't know if it's been done or if it's in fact still going on. The thing that we are aware of is that every bit of the building has at least a one-year warranty, and we will be looking into the solution of these problems before that one year expires.

Mr. Carmichael, We talked something about flooding, what is that, is that from rising water or is that from water that's not going down the drain?

Com. Burrus, Well there's a shower problem, it doesn't drain properly. It flows across the floor in the wrong direction. So it's…

Mr. Carmichael, The water flows up hill?

Com. Burrus, No, it flows downhill, but the downhill is in the wrong way.

Mr. Carmichael, I would like to have a report as to where we are on this particular situation. I get questions about it, and I don't really have answers.

Com. Burrus, I think it would be appropriate for the building to meet again.

Mr. Carmichael, Can we do that as soon as possible?

Com. Burrus, Sure. I've not been a party to that. I haven't been a member of that, but I think it would be appropriate, and I would certainly help coordinate it.

Mr. Carmichael, Alright, I would appreciate that. Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Does anyone have any other thing to come before the commissioners? Thank you, Dave.

Com. Burrus, Fine, thanks, Barb.

Ms. Stroud, Next on the agenda is the second reading.

SECOND READING

Ms. Martin moved to approve second reading. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.
PRESIDENT'S REPORT

Ms. Stroud, For my report, just to bring you up to date. There was, part of House Bill 1001 that was passed, some of you may be aware that there's a kind of glitch in the law, which says that next year when the tax bills were to go out that each of the counties were to list in those tax bills the different information that the State saved them by changing different taxes. Apparently no one caught up on the fact that this was going to cost counties money--each county money. So I had talked to, or got some figures, and they were also in the paper, but I did make a request to Representative Ayres in writing. We sent out a letter on the 17th asking him to look into this before, because they do this at the November meeting after the election.
You have to consider that the bill was something like; I think they said over 100 pages long; something like this can get through without them picking up on it. So hopefully this will be changed when they do come together in November. I think the cost was estimated here to be about $55,000 to $60,000 that would have to come out of our general fund. Of course, the larger the county the more money that they would have to pay. So that was one thing that, you know, I felt that I needed to get to him as soon as possible so that it could be taken care of.
Just remember that we are meeting on December 3rd. We meet the first Tuesday in December, and we do not meet in November. If we run it all together we will have one more meeting. If we have to have another meeting beyond that, then we have enough time to do that before the end of the year. Does anyone have anything that they would like to bring up before I pass it onto our attorney? I don't have anything else that I feel I need to bring up at this time. Okay, Sir.

ATTORNEY'S REPORT
2003 Surveyor's Contract

Mr. Hollenbeck, Madam President, a number of matters to bring to the Council's attention, mostly of which I've communicated to you in writing prior to this evening. Not necessarily in order of priority. First of all we have the 2003 agreement with the County Surveyor that I've sent to you.
As you'll recall, a number of years ago we negotiated with the County Surveyor so that he would not accept outside employment, which the law would allow him to do, in return for a salary increase. That agreement that I sent you has now been signed by Kevin for 2003, and I present it this evening for your approval. The salary in here is the salary that you approved during the budget process, which is identical to his 2002 salary, which is $55,750.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, we need a motion to approve this contract.

Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the 2003 Surveyor's Contract, the amount of $55,750. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I'll get the president to sign that at the end of the meeting.

Ms. Stroud, Okay.

Transfer from Bailout Fund 219 to County General 01

$500,000 from Bailout Fund 219 to County General Fund 01

Mr. Hollenbeck, The second thing on my list. I'm handing down--and you should each take one--a request from the County Auditor's Office to authorize accessing basically the remaining $500,000 that was deposited in the bailout fund account, which was the proceeds from the second installment of the bailout. I'm told there's about $513,000 left in the fund, and the request before you from the auditor is to access $500,000 of that money.
As the cash flow statement has predicted since March, and as the county auditor's records reflect, we run out of money, the general fund is cash broke during November. The way we would replenish that would be buy accessing the remaining monies of the second installment of the bailout loan.
Then the next item on my list is, as the cash flow statement has indicated since March, we paid back the bridge fund in June, as the law required us to. But the records show, and the commissioners have approved a new borrowing from the bridge fund, in an amount not to exceed 1.25 million dollars. As you'll recall, we spend about $2,000,000 a month in county government. About 1.2 of that is payroll--am I rounding off--about $800,000 of that is the rest of the business.
So the first consideration would be the auditor's request that you authorize the Auditor's Office so we can pay our bills in November, and transfer the $500,000 from Fund 219, which is where we have been depositing the bailout monies to 01, which is the general fund. Of course the auditor is here to answer any questions you may have.

Ms. Stroud, Does anybody have any questions? Yes, Sir?

Mr. Uzelac, I've got one question. In your attorney's report he provides you with a recommendation to sign a contract. Wouldn't that contract have to legally advertised for anybody in the public to remonstrate against entering that contract? And two, what's the difference between transferring money from one account to another when you're transferring it from this emergency fund to the general fund? The only thing I'm suggesting is, you're not giving the public any chance to have knowledge of this transfer that Dave's recommending, and I think it should be passed. My point being is you're not giving the public any notification of it; therefore they can't be here to remonstrate against it. I don't know if that's legal.

Mr. Hollenbeck, It clearly is. There's absolutely no legal obligation to do any other legal advertising than you've already done. The only legal advertising you have to do is for additional appropriations. There's no obligation.

Mr. Uzelac, But for transfers?

Mr. Hollenbeck, No, there's no legal obligation to notice.

Mr. Uzelac, Why isn't it on your agenda?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Pardon me?

Mr. Uzelac, Why isn't it on your agenda?

Mr. Hollenbeck, What isn't on the agenda?

Mr. Uzelac, Transferring from the million-one, not the million-two fifty, but the half a million to the general fund.
Mr. Hollenbeck, Well it's under the attorney's report. It's something that I'm reporting, George.

Mr. Uzelac, That's not my question. My question is, it's not on your agenda.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well yes it is, but go on.

Mr. Uzelac, Show me on the agenda where it says you're transferring that amount of money.

Mr. Hollenbeck, It doesn't, it's under the attorney's report, part of the report. We don't even have to legally have an agenda, George. There's nothing in the law that requires us to have an agenda.

Ms. Stroud, See the bailout money was put in a fund…

Mr. Uzelac, The only thing is, somewhere along the line I read, government by the people, for the people, and when you start doing things, when you don't advise the public that you are going to do them, and therefore provide them an opportunity to speak, whether it's legal or illegal, it's damn wrong to me.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I'm just telling you there's nothing illegal about it. And the contract that we are talking about is a contract that we had for at least five years.

Mr. Uzelac, Well I'm not specific on the contract, Dave. What I'm concern is that you're transferring money from one fund to another, and it's all proper, and it's probably needed. My only concern is John Q. Public out there has no knowledge if you are transferring that money, and maybe they would like to have an input on it. And using the title attorney's report, they have no idea what you are going to bring up.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Candidly, I…

Mr. Uzelac, Karen made the point, you know, you're using, you're taking the money from that 1,333,000, that the feds gave you for the jail. You know, that's crazy.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well, you know it's…

Mr. Uzelac, Sorry.

Mr. Hollenbeck, It's up to the Council. I mean…

Mr. Uzelac, That's not the point, Dave.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Absolutely.

Mr. Uzelac, It's not legal or illegal is not the point. The point is this government is for the damn people, not for the government, and I'd like to know whose transferring governmental monies within Porter County, because you guys are screaming your heads off you're financially broke and all that. No one, never mind.

Mr. Hollenbeck, George, that's exactly what I said.

Mr. Uzelac, Dave.

Mr. Hollenbeck, It's up to them.

Mr. Uzelac, Forget it. Forget it.

Mr. Hollenbeck, It is legal, it's up to you. If you want to defer all this, and call a special meeting, and put a notice in the paper, you have every right.

Mr. Uzelac, No one says you have to put it in all this. But gentleman, you've got a one-page agenda that was handed out, what, a week ago or so, there's not one word in there about any of these transfers that you're bringing up. It's all underneath the attorney's report. Okay, and, Dave, I'm not questioning whether it's legal or illegal. I just think it's damn wrong that you don't notify the people of it and let them have more input into it.
Mr. Hollenbeck, It's up to you. I mean, we can go forward tonight or if you want to stop, and do something else that's fine with me…

Ms. Stroud, Let me…

Mr. Hollenbeck, But you don't have any money.

Ms. Stroud, I was going to ask, this is the bailout money that was put in the fund.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, So that it would not be co-mingled so that we could do it in these increments. This is part of the second installment that came from the State, or the end of the second installment that came from the State. Probably I would say that if we do not transfer this, then we cannot make…

Mrs. Vuko, Right.

Ms. Stroud, Pay our bills.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Right.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I'm going to call for the question.

Mr. Carmichael, John has a question.

Ms. Stroud, John.

Mr. Ruge, That's not even a transfer. He was complaining about transfers. The money from the State to our county general, that's not a transfer.

Ms. Stroud, Well John, it was put in a fund what was known as the bailout fund, and we want to put it into, transfer it to the general fund to pay the bills. That money is there. It's part of the bailout money. We kept it separate so we could transfer it as needed.

Mr. Ruge, I don't think it's a transfer in our county budget.

Ms. Stroud, Correct.

Mr. Ruge, It's from the State. That's not a transfer.

Mrs. Knoblock, Can I say something?

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mrs. Knoblock, But what this gentleman is saying though is, we need an agenda to put in the paper every time we have a meeting, and I don't think that's too much to ask, because people can then say, if there's something they are interested in, then they can go to the meeting. If not, they don't have to. But it isn't too much to ask for an agenda to be put in the newspaper.

Ms. Balcerak, Carole, we fax it to the newspaper at least a week prior.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, it was reported in the newspaper in the…

Ms. Stroud, It's reported in the newspaper.

Mr. Carmichael, That we were going to transfer this fund.

Mrs. Knoblock, But I mean the whole agenda.

Mr. Carmichael, I think it was the Chesterton Tribune, I don't know whether Vicki had the story or whatever.

Ms. Stroud, But it was in the paper.

Mrs. Knoblock, Well he's talking about what Dave's doing here.

Ms. Balcerak, A lot of times with Dave's stuff we don't know until like…

Mr. Hollenbeck, I don't know.

Ms. Balcerak, The day or so before.

Ms. Stroud, Okay.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I mean, you know, if you want me to sit down with the newspapers a week ahead of time, and tell them what I'm going to tell you tonight, I'll do that.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, we need to get this done. Is there any more discussion on the transfer? Then I need a motion for the transfer.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the transfer of funds from Bailout Fund 219 to the County General Fund 01, the amount of $500,000. Mr. Ruge seconded, motion carried.

Cash Flow Statement

Mr. Hollenbeck, The next thing I'm passing out is, I've also indicated, the cash flow statement--we've talked about this since March--reflects accurately that there is a need to do the inter-fund borrowing from the bridge fund again in order to pay the November bills. Hopefully the monies to be paid back in December with the proceeds of the tax settlement that we received, the law would allow you not to do that, and to defer the repayment until June if can't repay. But this something we've done every year, not in the context of the crisis we now face, but for cash flow purposes you've borrowed money from both the reassessment fund and the bridge fund a number of years. The timing of this is just a little unique in that you are doing it in October again. And again, if you're seeing the pattern, you're having the same problems in November that you had in February and March, because you paid twice a year in June and December.

Ms. Martin, I have one question, Dave. If you are stating that it's not mandatory to pay this money back until June to the bridge fund, okay?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Which we didn't do last year, we waited until June to pay it back.

Ms. Martin, I understand, but you are stating that we should borrow the money from the State, which we're going to have to pay interest on instead of just borrowing it from the bridge fund and paying it back in June. Why would you recommend that?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well I haven't gotten to that item, Karen, and that's how much we are going to have to borrow from the third installment of the bailout. We haven't talked about that yet.

Ms. Martin, But you just stated previously in your sentence that we should pay this back out of the money that we are getting in December. That's almost exactly what you said.

Mr. Hollenbeck, With the tax settlement money.

Ms. Martin, I understand.

Ms. Stroud, From the taxes.

Ms. Martin, Now you had said the bailout money. What I'm saying is…

Mr. Hollenbeck, Go back, no I said…

Ms. Martin, Why would we not…

Mr. Hollenbeck, I said the tax, if I said the bailout money I apologize. What I meant to say was the December draw from the real estate property tax settlement.

Ms. Martin, But why we would not just keep this until June?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well we can. Well I guess philosophically I would hope we could pay back that we borrow as soon as possible, and there is some concern. The commissioners acquiesced in this, but we're taking money away from the bridge fund that they would like to do projects with in the bridge fund. So they would like the money back as soon as they can have it back, because we are impeding some of their plans, and they are delaying some of the things they want to do with regard to bridge maintenance. We don't have to. That's a decision that we can make at the December 3rd meeting when we see how the cash flow is for November as to whether or not we can pay this back or not. We can, as we did last year, we can declare a financial emergency and defer repayment of the bridge fund to June, and that may be something we'll want to do after we see what happens with the November cash flow.

Ms. Martin, Okay, I guess my other question is this. It's my understanding that Bethlehem Steel didn't pay November of last year, May and November of this year for a total of 5.8 million or something. Correct?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Correct.

Ms. Martin, Yet we cut the budget 2.9 million, so why are we borrowing the third installment?

Mr. Hollenbeck, We haven't talked about that yet. That's the next thing on my agenda, what we should do about the third installment. We borrowed the second installment.

Ms. Martin, Right, but I know that, because you said it's coming next.

Mr. Hollenbeck, It's the next thing on the agenda to talk about what we are going to do about the third installment.

Mr. Carmichael, Some of that is to cover next year.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Do you want to talk about that now?

Ms. Martin, Yes, I'd like to.

Ms. Stroud, Before we do this, I think that's what she's saying.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well I don't care.

Ms. Stroud, That's fine.

Mr. Hollenbeck, The answer to Karen's question is to what the auditor is going to recommend in terms of the third component of the bailout. What we are talking about in November is cash flow. The problem we have is that the money does not come in until December. It starts coming in on November 19th, but the final settlement is made in December. Our problem is we don't have any money in November to pay the bills. So it's not a gross income issue, it's a cash flow issue of where the cash is going to come from. That's why we need, between the 1.25 million from the bridge fund, and the $500,000 from the bailout fund, that's 1.75 million. We spend about $2,000,000 by not paying bills, and extending the time that we are making other payments, the auditor thinks we can get through November with about 1.75 million instead of the $2,000,000 that we normally would spend.
Then the issue is, what are we going to do about December, and that's a function, there's only two other sources of revenue for the month of December on a cash flow basis. One is accessing the third installment of the bailout money, and the other is accessing some of the tax anticipation warrant line of credit that we got in March that we haven't used. We were authorized for a $10,000,000 line of credit in the spring, and what we did is, we paid off the $5,000,000 of tax anticipation warrants we had issued in January to the Bond Bank. We have accessed, one accessing of $750,000. So we have $4,225,000 in basically a line of credit, which is available to us between now and the end of the year.
Now whatever we borrow out of that has to be paid back by law on December, by December 31st. We don't have the option in that fund to carry it to June of next year like we do the bridge fund. But again, it's a cash flow issue. Whatever we end up getting in real estate property taxes, and we've made some projections about that--that I think I've got here somewhere--we can use that money when the settlement occurs on December 29th or 30th or 31st to pay off all we can possible pay off, and see what kind of cash balance we're going to carry into the new year. We still are going to have the problem of having to issue tax anticipation warrants in January.
As you look at the cash flow statements you've been given all along, page, if we go to page 2, which is the 2003, we are looking at tax anticipation warrants of $10,000,000. That's because we don't have any cash on January 1st. We had originally projected a cash balance of about $56,000 on January 1st. We're going to be better than that, because we've not spent as much. We haven't had to borrow as much.
I'm not going to kid you, the other reason you are better off is because the Department of Commerce loan that you got in December right after the Bethlehem Steel bankruptcy to keep you afloat until you could get to the new year, that got paid off out of the entire first installment of the bailout, plus a good portion of the second installment of the bailout bill. The bailout bill is paid off over ten years. The Department of Commerce loan we had to pay off over three years.
So the $756,000 payment in December that's shown to the Department of Commerce isn't there anymore. We don't have to make that payment. That's kind of a false sense of security, because that, all you've done is push off in the future years, the obligation to repay that money. But you're going to have a better cash situation than the worse case scenario we've talked about, which is that $56,000.
What it will be is a function of how much you collect in property taxes in terms of the settlement in December, and we really won't know that until probably well into December as the Treasurer's Office counts the tax payments that are received. But the problem is November and December, and those, Karen, are cash flow problems. They're not, I mean, the money, to the extent that we receive income in December, then you can make the decision as to how much of this money that you owe you want to pay back, and how much you want to keep to have some kind of cash balance into the new year, with the understanding that you are spending 1.8 to $2,000,000 a month. If you've got $56,000 in the bank, you're not going to make it very far into January.

Ms. Martin, Yes, but you also said $750,000 that we are not paying back, so it's $800,000.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well, yes, I'm not prepared at this point to predict what it will be. Alright?

Ms. Martin, Okay, well…

Mr. Hollenbeck, But whatever it is, it probably won't get you through January.

Ms. Stroud, And isn't the projection a little less to come in from taxes, because some people did pay their full tax. There were a number of people that came in and paid their full tax payment in April, so we don't know.

Mrs. Vuko, The Fall one is a lot less.

Ms. Stroud, The Fall will be lighter as far as the revenue that comes in.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Even in normal times the fall is…

Ms. Stroud, Lighter.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Lighter.

Mrs. Vuko, Right.

Ms. Martin, I personally, from a standpoint would prefer that we use tax anticipation money instead of the loan, because it defeats the purpose of cutting 10% out of the budgets at the tune of two-point-some million, then using all the money that they gave us to compensate us for the full amount that Bethlehem Steel didn't pay. Because what we are doing then is, we're not just robbing Peter to pay Paul. We've robbed Peter, we've robbed John, and Jim, and Paul is still out there, and we're not quite sure what's going on with him.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I totally agree. That's what you've been doing for ten months.

Ms. Martin, So in all actuality, my personal opinion is, we should do the tax anticipation, because the problem is if we use this money that's borrowed, when we really didn't, in all actuality, we cut that money, we shouldn't be needed that third installment. I understand the financial aspect of having the money in there for cash flow, but we've cut the 2.9 million, we've had the people lose their jobs, we've reduced the budgets, and now we're still going to use the money that the State gave us, because? Why?

Mr. Hollenbeck, For cash flow.

Ms. Martin, Well, but tax anticipation will take care of that too.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well there's, and that's fine. As I said, that's one of your options, two considerations in that regard. The interest rate on the tax anticipation warrants is double the interest rate on the state loan. The tax anticipation warrants, regardless of what happens, you have to pay that back on December 31st. You can't carry that into the new year. Then all bets are off at that point as to what your cash balance is on December 31st, because you've got to pay back what you borrowed. But it's, that's certainly one way to do it.

Ms. Martin, But the bottom line is we've cut the budget the 10%; we shouldn't need that third.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Karen, we need it for cash flow. We're out of…

Ms. Martin, I know we're talking about that, Dave.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Money.

Ms. Stroud, We're just…

Ms. Martin, We're talking the difference between tax anticipation and the loan. I just think it's fiscally irresponsible when you've cut the budgets that amount to borrow the money when you don't, when you don't have to have it for a loan. We always do tax anticipation, I understand that. There have been a couple of years we haven't had to. We rarely have to do it in February and October. That's, that's because of the situation we're in now. But the bottom line is, it was my understanding that the reason we were cutting the budgets the 10% was because we weren't quite sure if we were going to get the loan. Well now we've got the loan, we've cut the budget 10%, and now we are still going to use the loan money.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well first of all, Karen, no one had said, we haven't gotten to that fourth item on my agenda. What we have to discuss is how are we going to handle the cash flow problem.

Ms. Martin, Yes, but see this all plays all together. That's my concern.

Mr. Hollenbeck, One way to handle it is by accessing the third component of the bailout loan. That's an extremely low interest loan, and we don't have to pay it off other than over ten years. The other option is to access what additional monies from the tax anticipation warrants that the local banks gave us on a line of credit basis, and there's advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. The disadvantage to that approach is that the interest rate is twice as much, and come hell or high water, no matter what you get in tax revenue, you've got to pay it back on December 31st or you've broken the law. You know it's not a good situation, and we've, you know, how many times have I told you we are not in a good situation. I mean…

Ms. Martin, I don't think you need to tell us that. I think we are well aware of that.

Resolution 02-10-29
Borrowing from Bridge Fund

Mr. Hollenbeck, Alright. In any event, we do need to do the inter-fund borrowing from the bridge fund for November before we talk about December. I've passed out the prototype-boiler-plate resolution that we've used in the past to accomplish that task, which basically authorizes the county auditor to transfer those monies on an as-needed basis to pay the bills.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, we need to…

Mr. Carmichael, Barbara, John has a question now.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, John.

Mr. Ruge, I didn't have a question, I was going to make a motion.

Mr. Carmichael, To borrow from the bridge fund?

Ms. Stroud, To borrow from the bridge fund?

Mr. Ruge moved to adopt Resolution 02-10-29 as submitted.

Mr. Ruge, How much money is that?

Mr. Carmichael, $1,250,000.

Mr. Hollenbeck, The commissioners authorized us to access up to 1.25 million of their bridge fund on an as-needed basis.

Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I'm going to pass down three copies of that resolution that you need to sign, then we'll give it to the auditor.

Resolution 02-10-29A
Loan from the Rainy Day Fund

Mr. Hollenbeck, The fourth thing on the agenda that we've already segued into is how we are going to handle December. As we've discussed, we have two options as Karen has alluded to. One is to authorize access to the third installment of the legislative bailout loan, which would be a maximum of about 1.8 million dollars, paid back, amortized over ten years with an interest rate of about 1.1? I forget, 1.1 or 1.2%.

Ms. Stroud, Something like that.

Mrs. Vuko, I thought it was 1.29.

Mr. Hollenbeck, 1.2 or whatever it is to 2%. The other option for December is to access additional monies from the tax anticipation warrant line of credit that you established in March. As Karen has already well articulated, there are philosophical issues, and advantages and disadvantages to either of those two approaches. But the auditor needs some direction as to which of those two you want to pursue.

Mr. Ruge moved to adopt Resolution 02-10-29A as submitted.

Mr. Ruge, It's a lower interest rate, isn't it, a lower interest rate from the money from the bailout fund?
Mr. Hollenbeck, Yes it is.

Ms. But it's a false sense of security.

Mr. Carmichael seconded.

Ms. Stroud, Are you in your motion saying that we should take the whole amount or just part of the amount?

Mr. Ruge, The full amount.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I believe the auditor has a comment on that.

Mr. Ruge, The 1.8.

Ms. Martin, The 1.8.

Ms. Stroud, The 1.8, okay. Alright, a motion was made and seconded that we use the money from the bailout bill, which has an interest of around 1.1%. We access that money rather than, I mean, that is the motion. Okay?

Mr. Carmichael, Why don't you do a roll call for fun?

Ms. Stroud, Okay, roll call.

Mrs. Vuko, For fun?

Ms. Stroud, For fun.

Motion carried.

Ms. Martin, At the recommendation of the auditor, only because the auditor, and I trust her judgment, but I feel it's a false sense of security.

Ms. Stroud, We all feel that way.

Tax Anticipation Warrant Discussion

Mr. Hollenbeck, One other thing to bring up, and that's along the same lines, and we've already alluded to that in our discussions Karen precipitated here. At your December meeting, we are going to have to make a decision as to the magnitude of the tax anticipation warrants that we'll need to issue in January. I will work with the auditor, and have a report for you at the December as to the recommendations. I would emphasize that as things stand under the cash flow statements, that figure is $10,000,000. Now to the extent that we can be in a better cash position on December 31st, then that there can be a corresponding reduction in the tax anticipation warrant that has to be issued. That's the end of my report.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. Mr. West just gave a big sigh of relief.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to be in this financial situation.

Ms. Stroud, Right. So you're getting a little hot there?

Mr. West, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, Does anyone else have anything they would like to bring up this evening? Anyone else?

There being no further business, meeting adjourned.

PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL
PORTER COUNTY, INDIANA

William Carmichael
Karen Conover
Carole Knoblock
Karen Martin
Barbara Stroud
Leon West

Attest: Sandra Vuko, Auditor