PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL
October 1, 2002

The Porter County Council met on Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 7:00 p.m., in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana - Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Members present were William Carmichael, Karen Conover, Carole Knoblock, Karen Martin, John Ruge and President Barbara Stroud. Also present was Attorney David Hollenbeck, Auditor Sandra Vuko, Jamie Dziabo and Jan Balcerak.

Ms. Stroud called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Ms. Stroud, Our first order of business is for us to go back and approve the minutes for our July 23rd meeting and our August 28th meeting. Does anyone have anything that they saw going through the minutes that needs to changed or need any corrections or whatever? Hearing none, then I need a motion to approve these two sets of minutes.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to approve the minutes of July 23, 2002 and August 28, 2002 as received. Ms. Martin seconded, motion carried unanimously.

FIRST READING

At this time, Mrs. Vuko read the Notice to Taxpayers.

EXPO CENTER 146.66
Transfer

$350 from account 3510 Power into account 3340 Advertising
$3,000 from account 1120 Hourly into account 3620 Building & Structures
$4,500 from account 1120 Hourly into account 3980 Event Expenses
$600 from account 2210 Gas, Fuel & Lubrication into account 2110 Office Supplies
$2,000 from account 2330 Household & Bedding into account 2350 Building Maintenance Supplies
$2,000 from account 3510 Power into account 3520 Water & Sewage

Ms. Stroud, First on our agenda is the Expo Center. Good evening.

Judy Herzog, Hello.

Ms. Stroud, I see he wants to transfer in Fund 146.66, the amount of $350 from account 3510, which is titled Power, to account 3340, which is Advertising. The amount of $3,000 from account 1120, which is your Hourly, to account 3620, and from account 1120, $4,500 to account 3980 for Event Expenses. Is that correct?

Ms. Herzog, Yes.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Expo Center, the amounts of $350, $3,000 and $4,500. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, I wanted to make sure I had each one. I didn't read the last part of it. I'm sorry, there were two pages, the amount of $600 from account 2210 to account 2110, which is Office Supplies. The amount of $2,000 from account 2330 to account 2350 and the amount of $2,000 from account 3510 to 3520. Correct?

Ms. Herzog, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, I need a motion to approve.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Expo Center, the amounts of $600, $2,000 and $2,000. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Herzog, Thank you.

PROSECUTOR DEFERRAL 12.08
Additional Appropriation

$5,000 into account 3150 Institutions

Jim Douglas, Good evening.

Ms Stroud, Good evening. You are asking out of Fund 12.08 an additional of $5,000 to Institutions, which is account 3150. Is that correct?

Mr. Douglas, That's correct, and that is a non-tax fund. Non-county tax fund.

Ms. Stroud, It's a non-general fund account.

Mr. Douglas, Non-general fund, and the money is really for institutions. Normally in a ticket, which is an infraction deferral, the police on a conviction get $3 that goes into a special training fund. Normally this fund provides for a $10 fee, and this year, with more tickets we've run a little low, so I need an additional $5,000 to pay the police. That's the purpose of the request.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Prosecutor Deferral, the amount of $5,000. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mr. Douglas, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're welcome.

HEALTH 05.95
144 Form

Nursing Supervisor to $35,064, amended to $31,783
Public Health Nurse to $33,957, amended to $30,786
Sanitarian II from $33,680 to $30,537
5th Deputy to $19,511, amended to $18,213

Ms. Stroud, Health, 05.95 Fund. Okay, you have a 144 Form.

Keith Letta, What we are asking is to allow us to fill these four positions outside of the hiring freeze. I've noted on there, the 5th Deputy, that position has been vacant since May due to illness, then retirement. The Sanitarian II position has been open since February. That individual has gone somewhere else. The two Nurses will be retiring, one in November and one in December. So we would ask your permission to fill those positions, fill the two now and the two when they retire. There is one correction. One of the public health nurses, the total should be $30,786 instead of $33,957. The $30,786 would represent the low for that position.

Ms. Stroud, What is it, $30,000?

Mr. Letta, $30,786. The $33,957 is current.

Ms. Martin, What about the other two positions, the nursing supervisor and the 5th deputy? Are they at low end also?

Mr. Letta, The low for the 5th deputy is $18,213, but the individual that we would like to put into that spot is currently working for us part-time and would already be trained. The sanitarian is at the low position, the low for the points, $30,537. The supervisor, the low is $31,783, which would put her at about $2,000 less than at least one person that she is supervising at the $33,957.

Ms. Stroud, The retiring nursing supervisor you have at $35,064, but you are saying that…

Mr. Letta, But to keep it at that because we have a staff nurse at $33,957.

Ms. Martin, See that's what happens when you take people to the midpoint; is when two people come in at low end, they make less than the people that you've taken to midpoint, because previously you took all your people to midpoint. You wanted to take them to high end, which would have been a real problem. And this is a situation that we have now, is where in fact, when we take them to low end, due to the fact that they are coming in, new individuals, the supervisors are going to be making less because your nurses are at midpoint.

Mrs. Knoblock, What was the low again on the 5th deputy, 18-what?

Ms. Stroud, $18,213.

Mrs. Knoblock, Thank you.

Ms. Martin, I guess my only concern is the fact that we're already, I mean, we had the big newspaper article about being short and providing services and not being able to hire the people and what we are doing right here is increasing salaries, when we could be using them for additional personnel or other services. That concerns me as well as putting people…

Mr. Letta, Where are we increasing? I don't quite…

Ms. Martin, Well your salaries are supposed to go to the low end by the salary ordinance, Keith. Like I said previously, what you had done was take your people to midpoint, so this causes the problem here. Because now your supervisor, taking her to low end like you're supposed to, is making less than the people that you have at midpoint.

Mr. Letta, I understand that.

Ms. Martin, Well the problem is, now you're talking about giving that individual $1,300 more, and you also want to have, give an individual almost $4,000 more.

Mr. Letta, But…

Ms. Martin, So you're talking about $5,000. If you talk the difference between the nursing supervisor and the 5th deputy, $5,000, I'm sure you could have that in hourly for additional personnel or additional services.

Mr. Letta, I am dropping two of them by about $6,000.

Ms. Martin, But they all should be dropped, by our standards and by our guidelines.

Ms. Stroud, Let me ask you this. Low point on the nursing supervisor is $31,783.

Mr. Letta, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, Have you interviewed somebody already?

Mr. Letta, No.

Ms. Stroud, Right now you're paying $35,064.

Mr. Letta, Correct. It would be our intention--if we were able to do it--to get someone from inside our department that's already with us for a position like that--someone that is already trained.

Ms. Stroud, I don't have in front of me the figures as far as where they fall in the salary scale, like POLE or what the numbers would be. That is what I was trying to look up in the salary ordinance.

Mr. Letta, The points? Is that what you are talking about?

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Ms. Balcerak, The nursing supervisor is a 470 PAT. The nurses are 450 PAT.

Ms. Stroud, The 5th deputy?

Ms. Balcerak, That is 290 COMOT. Keith, for your sanitarian II, will that go down to a sanitarian I maybe?

Mr. Letta, Well it is, that's why it's at the low.

Ms. Balcerak, You can hire a sanitarian I off the street for that?

Mr. Letta, No.

Ms. Stroud, What is that factor?

Ms. Balcerak, Sanitarian is a 445 PAT.

Ms. Martin, Now is that a sanitarian I or sanitarian II?

Ms. Balcerak, Sanitarian II.

Ms. Martin, What's the sanitarian I?

Ms. Balcerak, 440, I believe. I don't remember because we haven't had one around for a while.

Ms. Stroud, What's your highest, the nursing supervisor that's retiring where you have that position at $35,064, what's your highest paid nurse there?

Mr. Letta, The staff nurse?

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mr. Letta, The $33,957, the one right below it.

Ms. Martin, That's because they took them all to midpoint.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mr. Carmichael, Barb, John has a question down here.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mr. Ruge, This doesn't involve any new personnel?

Mr. Letta, No, no.

Mr. Ruge, Do you have money to give them a raise? Do you have money to give them a raise in your budget? You're giving them a raise too?

Mr. Letta, No, I'm not intending to give anyone a raise, no. I wouldn't have the money in our budget to do that. We're just asking for permission to fill these positions. There's two that are currently vacant and there will be two vacant before the end of the year. The catch is that the one, the nursing supervisor position--and I understand what Karen is saying--because they are at the midpoint, currently bring them in at the low point, they would be making less than at least one person that they are supervising.

Mr. Ruge, It's not a matter of raising the salary?

Mr. Letta, No, no that's the current rate.

Ms. Stroud, My feeling on this would be--like with everybody else--that we should go low end. I mean it might be that you'll have somebody that moves up from the nursing and maybe an adjustment would have to be made. But I think we've made a statement to our people that where we have given permission for them to come in, and even before that, that they have to come in at the low end, you know, in order to do it. I think in all fairness that's the way it should be. But now I realize you're going to run into some problems because you do have some nurses that are going to be at midpoint. Now it could be that one of those would move up to the supervisor and then we'll tackle that down the road. But my feeling would be that they should be brought in at the low end.

Ms. Martin, Did you say there's only person that's going to be making more than the supervisor?

Mr. Letta, Yes.
Ms. Martin, How many total do you have in that position?

Mr. Letta, Four, five.

Ms. Martin, Which is it, four or five?

Mr. Letta, Five.

Ms. Martin, And everybody else makes less than that, correct? They are at the low end?

Mr. Letta, Yes, at the $30,537, I'm sorry, the $30,768.

Mr. Carmichael, Keith, you didn't have a sanitarian from February on?

Mr. Letta, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, So you saved that amount of money this year by not hiring and filling that position. Is that correct?

Mr. Letta, Correct.

Mr. Carmichael, Was that part of your 10% budget cut?

Mr. Letta, No. The 10%, what was involved in our 10% was the nursing supervisor in Portage, which we eliminated and our hourly account was basically gone with the 10%. Actually it was 13%, because we had an additional 3% cut that we were required to make at the first juncture last year, prior to the 10%.

Mr. Carmichael, Well, I think with the situation the Health Department is in, I certainly don't want to be in the position of micro-managing your job.

Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the 144 Form submitted by the Health Department. Mrs. Conover seconded.

Ms. Martin, I just don't, I understand his dilemma but this is the scenario that they had made that decision to take their people to midpoint, which at the time we had a problem with, because they really wanted to take them to the high end. We had to discuss it and they finally agreed to the midpoint, and the situation is now, this is the scenario that falls into place with our guidelines about taking people to low end when they come on.

Mr. Letta, Karen, I understand your position completely and we've talked about this a number of times. The only thing that I could add to it is that these are professional people and these rates are far below, I mean, not even close to what a nurse is going to make in the private sector. I realize that we can't compete with the private sector, but these are far below what they would make, so. Is there an intermediate number that we could come up with?

Ms. Martin, Well I call for the question since there's already a motion.

Motion failed on the following vote:

Knoblock-NoMartin-No
Ruge-YesStroud-No
Carmichael-YesConover-Yes

Ms. Stroud, Okay, obviously it did not pass. You have to have five; motion fails. Now we can go back and readdress if you…

Ms. Martin, My only concern here, Keith, is that there's only a $1,500 difference between the midpoint and the $3,500, so there's really no midpoint in between there either. So that's my concern.

Mr. Letta, I understand completely. We're not trying anything funny, we need to do this to maintain our current level of service or such as it is. We're not going to be opening any new offices. We're not going to be adding new people or whatever. We're just trying to maintain what we are doing, our current level of productivity. Without being able to replace these people that's not possible, so.
Ms. Martin, Well I don't think we said you couldn't replace the people, we're saying to cut those salaries.

Mr. Letta, I understand. I just wanted to make it clear I'm not trying something here.

Ms. Stroud, Right, and I think that I have to say the same thing, since we've tried to follow through with the others that they would have to come down. But I think also it could be worked out, like you are saying, that for your nursing supervisor in the position at $33,957, that's the midpoint for your nurses. Correct?

Mr. Letta, Correct, for the staff nurse.

Ms. Stroud, For the staff nurses, and the midpoint for the nursing supervisor at $35,064, you know…

Ms. Martin, And I don't think it's micro-managing, Bill.

Ms. Stroud, No.

Ms. Martin, And I'm offended by that in some respects, due to the fact that its been in our salary ordinance for years that way, and during the time when they thought they had the money they decided to take their people up and that's the scenario that has occurred and it's a problem that we have to deal with. We're trying to treat everybody fairly and the same and I don't think it's micro-managing at all.

Mr. Carmichael, Well he's hiring professionals. He's not hiring people to fill office/secretarial positions or a maintenance person or anything like that. He's hiring people that he's in a competing market, which has a…

Ms. Martin, They've been factored and evaluated, Bill. We've given them the guidelines. The people that are out there don't get the benefits that the people get at the Health Department. They don't have the holidays they have here, and a lot of them have to work a different schedule, they don't work just plain days. So let's not compare apples to oranges, here, okay. I understand the fact that they are experienced professionals, but if we are going to compare, let's compare.

Mrs. Conover, I think with the whole system we've tried to err on the side of fairness. This is part of the responsibility of the oath that we took for this office. To agree with you, Karen, there have been articles in the paper. When he wanted high range and we allowed midrange it's because he'd been losing staff and whatnot. Maybe micro-managing is the wrong term. We're really struggling in this department and this is a county health issue here. I don't know what the overall solution is. We allowed this, he wanted to go high-- times were better then--because he's losing staff and he's understaffed and he's had positions vacant. Let's come to something so he can hire somebody and have an attractive job here. We are talking about degreed personnel.

Mr. Letta, Could I ask a question here? In speaking with our Director of Nursing, Connie Rudd, whatever figure we come up with here, if you would allow me to bring a person in at the low, at the $31,783--that is the correct number?

Ms. Stroud, That's correct.

Mr. Letta, Okay, if we weren't able to find someone that would be willing to take the supervisory duties for less money than one of the nursing people…

Ms. Martin, Well, and that's the problem in management, that situation.

Mr. Letta, Right. That's to hire, we can pay less than that, correct?

Ms. Stroud, Right.

Mr. Letta, Okay. I guess I'm thinking along the lines of possibly, during this time that we are experiencing here these days, if we decided to not have that supervisory position, just another staff level position, we would at least have a body at the desk, being able to work in the clinics, she would have to take over the additional supervisory duties, we could pay an individual less. Correct?

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mr. Letta, Okay, if you would allow us the $31,783, perhaps in the interim we could mull that over and see if that would in fact work.

Ms. Stroud, What about the public health nurse--the retiring one--that goes down to $30,786. That would be the low there.

Mr. Letta, Correct, it would be an individual coming in from…

Ms. Stroud, Correct, and then the sanitation one is $30,537.

Mr. Letta, And you want me to go to the…

Ms. Stroud, Then the 5th deputy would be $18,213, and would put it in…

Mr. Letta, Put everything at the low.

Ms. Stroud, Correct.

Mr. Letta, Which is what you need to do.

Ms. Stroud, Correct.

Ms. Martin moved to amend the 144 Form submitted by the Health Department. Mrs. Knoblock seconded.

Mr. Carmichael, I need to clarify the motion. What is the motion?

Ms. Stroud, The motion is that these positions be allowed but they would be at the low point. For the nursing supervisor, $31,783. The public health nurse would be at $30,786. The sanitarian would stay at the same amount that he has here at $30,537. And the 5th deputy would be at $18,213. A motion has been made and seconded; we need a roll call vote.

Clarification of Motion: Amend the 144 Form to the amounts of $31,783 for the Nursing Supervisor, $30,786 for the Public Health Nurse, $30,537 for the Sanitarian II, and $18,213 for the 5th Deputy.

Motion failed on the following vote:

Martin-YesRuge-Yes
Stroud-YesCarmichael-No
Conover-NoKnoblock-Yes

Ms. Stroud, It did not pass, we need five.

Ms. Martin, Well I'm surprised the department head agreed to it, but the Council didn't agree with the department head. We can be here all night.

Ms. Stroud, Well, whatever. Any suggestions?

Ms. Martin, I realize the people need to be approved, I'm sorry, but.

Ms. Stroud, I do too, but it did not pass at this point in time.

Ms. Martin, Why? He said he needs the people, Bill. It's a public safety issue and now you're saying you'd only approve it if we spend more money, but you're not going to approve when we spend less. Considering the financial situation we're in.

Mr. Carmichael, Well we've got a surplus there of around $25,000 that he didn't expend this year on…

Ms. Martin, And he's had to delete people…

Mr. Carmichael, On the sanitarian.

Ms. Martin, And take care of the programs.

Mr. Carmichael, Don't interrupt me. I asked him what he saved and it's probably close to $25,000.

Mr. Letta, Actually it is $21,270, which there is a request in front of you to transfer.

Ms. Stroud, So you have to use it for your hourly.

Mr. Letta, My hourly, because I lost all the hourly.

Ms. Stroud, I know you're out of part-time money. Am I correct?

Mr. Letta, Right.

Ms. Stroud, From what I've heard, people I've talked to…

Mr. Letta, Yes, exactly.

Ms. Stroud, You're out of part-time money.

Ms. Martin, Which programs have you had to delete besides removing people from the Portage office?

Mr. Letta, The night clinic, the satellite clinics in Hebron, Kouts, Chesterton, all the Wednesday clinics. That's our main problem with the loss of the hourly dollars.

Ms. Stroud, So in other words, without filling that position, it's saving you $21,270 you can at least transfer that into your hourly. Otherwise you wouldn't have that money either.

Mr. Letta, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, So that's all the more reason for us to take you back at this level, so that at least you have some money in there.

Mr. Letta, I'm happy with it that way if it could go.

Mrs. Conover, You had indicated--if I understood you right--that you wanted to take one of your hourly nurses and she would be possibly interested in the public health nurse position.

Mr. Letta, That was the nursing secretary position.

Mrs. Conover, The secretary?

Mr. Letta, The secretary.

Mrs. Conover, Okay, my misunderstanding then. You feel that you have your supervisor issue resolved even though that's at a low of $31,783.

Mr. Letta, Well I think we'll try to resolve it one way or the other, yes, either not at this time period, not having a supervisor and Connie can handle those additional duties and I would guess that we could do it by dividing a lot of that up between the staff nurses. But that would give us a body in that position. The way things are on both the nursing side and the environmental, we're not looking for anything new to do. We're just trying to keep our head above water with what we are already doing now, and that's why we need the bodies at those desks to do that. Again, that was a few years ago when things were a little bit different, there was a little bit more flexibility. I understand the current situation, but I think we just, our priority is to fill those positions and have the people sitting there at the desk so they can do the work.

Mrs. Conover, And you feel you can hire someone at that $30,000 and adding additional duties?

Mr. Letta, I believe so. The thing that I would have more difficulty--I think--finding is someone to be the supervisor of five people at a lower rate than some of the people you are supervising. That seems, and I understand how we got there, but I think it would be easier to find the staff nurse. As Karen indicated there are a lot of, you know, benefits here with the hours and the holidays and such. So that might be a little bit much to call upon a supervisor to work.

Ms. Martin, But as you stated, you could resolve that situation by taking those duties and either spreading them amongst yourself. You need the body. It's not so much the supervisory aspect at this point in time.

Mr. Letta, Well at this point given what's occurred, yes, I think that would be the way to handle it.

Ms. Stroud, Any more discussion? Do you want to bring it up for a vote again?

Ms. Martin, It would have to be a new motion.

Ms. Stroud, It has to be a new motion, I understand that.

Mrs. Conover, Well if this is workable to the Health Department, because they know what they need and have to have, if they said they needed somebody at the midrange, $35,000 to supervise the other nurses making $33,000, it made sense to me to allow that. But if this department--the Health Department--is willing to spread those duties around and they feel they can make it work, then I'm not here to object that.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to allow hiring and approve the 144 Form for the Health Department; Nursing Supervisor at $31,783, Public Health Nurse at $30,786, Sanitarian II at $30,537 and 5th Deputy at $18,213. Ms. Martin seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Transfer

$21,270 from account 1110 Salaries into account 1120 Hourly

Ms. Stroud, Out of Fund 05.95, the amount of $21,270 from account 1110 Salaries to account 1120 Hourly to transfer.

Ms. Martin, I just had a question. Can, is it possible, do you have any additional monies since we've reduced the salaries to transfer to hourly, because we've reduced those line items or the salaries, you won't have anymore.

Ms. Stroud, Since this is a transfer I need a motion.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Health Department, the amount of $21,270. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Transfer

$450 from account 3210 Travel into account 3750 Rentals

Mr. Letta, That has been withdrawn.

Ms. Stroud, Oh, that has been withdrawn. I'm sorry.

Mr. Letta, That's going to be under Local Health.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I will write on here withdrawn.

HEALTH - LOCAL HEALTH MAINTENANCE 014
Additional Appropriation

$3,000 into account 3120 Consultants (HIPPA)
$1,200 into account 2410 Medical Supplies
$250 into account 3720 Software
$15,640 into account 1120 Hourly (requested advertised for $16,090)
$2,500 into account 3310 Printing other than Office Supplies
$450 into account 3750 Rentals (request not approved due to lack of publication)

Ms. Stroud, Fund 14, this is for additional appropriations from that fund. Do you want to tell us about that money in the fund that it is not general fund money so that the people in the audience know?

Mr. Letta, This is our state entitlement money, the $50,000 that we receive annually.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. In Fund 014, the amount of $3,000 to account number 3120 for Consultants; Fund 014, the amount of $1,200 to account 2410 Medical Supplies; Fund 014, the amount of $250 to account 3720 for Software; Fund 014, the amount of $15,640 to account 1120 for Hourly; the same fund, the amount of $2,500 to account 3310 for Printing, Title Printing; and $450 to account 3750 for Rentals/Pagers. This is an additional appropriation.

Ms. Martin moved to approve and amend the request for additional appropriations submitted by Local Health Maintenance, the amounts of $3,000, $1,200, $250, $15,640 and $2,500. Mrs. Knoblock seconded.

Ms. Balcerak, Barb, we have a question.

Mrs. Vuko, The $15,640 to the Hourly?

Ms. Stroud, I have $15,640 to Hourly.

Mrs. Vuko, Okay.

Ms. Stroud, It's printed in both places, $15,640 to Hourly.

Mrs. Vuko, Okay.

Mrs. Conover, Underneath there is also the pagers and the printing, under the…

Ms. Stroud, Yes, Printing, rentals and pagers, yes.

Mrs. Conover, Okay.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you, Karen. Thank you, Mrs. Conover. We need a roll call.

Motion carried unanimously.

HEALTH - TOBACCO SETTLEMENT 203
Additional Appropriation

$15,200 into account 2410 Medical & Dental

Ms. Stroud, You have one more. Again, this is your Tobacco Settlement.

Mr. Letta, This is also state funds, a slightly different one, but the same kind.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, Fund 203.95, the amount is $15,200 to account 2410 Medical & Dental. The reason for the appropriation is the purchase of vaccines and so on.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Health Tobacco Settlement, the amount of $15,200. Ms. Martin seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you.

Mr. Letta, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Keith, I was going to ask you. You have no hourly left, part-time.

Mr. Letta, The only thing we have is $4,700 that I transferred when you heard me at the last budget hearing.

Ms. Stroud, Right. How's it coming with inoculations for vaccines and so on? I guess those programs are all by the wayside right now.

Mr. Letta, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I just wondered.

Mr. Letta, But this will allow us…

Ms. Stroud, Hopefully.

Mr. Letta, To resume some of those.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Letta, Thank you very much.

HIGHWAY 02
Additional Appropriation

$5,600 into account 2362.291 Bituminous

Ms. Stroud, Next on the agenda is the Highway Department 02. Good evening, Jack.

Jack Jarnecke, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, How are you?

Mr. Jarnecke, Okay.

Ms. Stroud, How are things going?

Mr. Jarnecke, Fine.

Ms. Stroud, Fine. Okay, I have a request for an additional appropriation from Fund 02.91, in the amount of $5,600 to account 2362.291 for Bituminous. Is that correct?

Mr. Jarnecke, Yes, correct.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. Any discussion? I need a motion to approve.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Highway 02, the amount of $5,600. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Transfer

$150 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 3520 Water & Sewage

Ms. Stroud, Jack also has another request to transfer, from Fund 02, the amount of $150 from account 3130 from Training to account 3520 Water & Sewage.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Highway 02, the amount of $150. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mr. Jarnecke, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you.

PARKS OPERATING 127
Additional Appropriation

$4,400 into account 1110 Salaries
$400 into account 1210 FICA
$2,400 into account 1220 Medical/Life Insurance
$400 into account 3980 Event Expenses

Ms. Stroud, Parks & Recreation. Good evening.

Ed Melendez, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, How are you?

Mr. Melendez, Just fine.

Ms. Stroud, You're a fine fellow, huh? Parks & Recreation, we have a couple of requests. Parks Operating, Fund 127.85, you want to do an additional appropriation. My understanding is this is the money that comes from the grant, the money that you get from the Tourism. Is that correct?

Mr. Melendez, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. The amount of $4,400 to account 1110 Salaries. Fund 127.85, the amount of $400 to account 1210 for FICA. Account 127.85, in the amount of $2,400. Account 1220 for Insurance. And Fund 127.85, the amount of $400 to account 3980 for Event Expenses.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Parks Operating, the amounts of $4,400, $400, $2,400 and $400. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Transfer

$2,000 from account 3950 Contractual Services into account 3980 Event Expenses

Ms. Stroud, Okay, he has a request to transfer, Fund 127.85, the amount of $2,000 from account 3950 Contractual Services to 3980 Event Expenses.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Parks Operating, the amount of $2,000. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

PARKS 01.85
Transfer

$1,500 from account 1120 Hourly into account 1110 Salaries
$1,000 from account 3650 Equipment Repair other than Vehicles into account 1110 Salaries
$984.70 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 1110 Salaries

Ms. Stroud, One more request to transfer funds. Park & Recreation, now this is the 01 Fund, general fund money. $1,500 from account 1120 Hourly to account 1110 Salaries. The amount of $1,000 from account 3650 Vehicle Repair to 1110 Salaries, and the amount $984.70 from account 3130 Training to account 1110 Salaries.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Parks 01.85, the amounts of $1,500, $1,000 and $984.70. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mr. Melendez, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're quite welcome.

PORTAGE REASSESSMENT 108.11
Transfer

$4,230 from account 1120 Hourly into account 4440 Furniture & Fixtures over $100
$610 from account 1120 Hourly into account 3610 Maintenance Agreements

Ms. Stroud, Next on the agenda, Portage Reassessment, Fund 108.11.

John Scott, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, Good evening. I see you need to transfer some money around here, John.
Mr. Scott, Yes, please.

At this time, Kathryn Cochran took out what appeared to be typewriter parts from a bag.

Mrs. Conover, I love your dialogue here.

Ms. Stroud, I like that.

Mrs. Conover, This is so….

Mr. Scott, Just say no, how do they say it, just say yes. Do you want an explanation or anything else?

Ms. Martin, That's like when the judge brought her robe in.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, that's when she brought the shopping bag in and we thought we were getting gifts.

Mrs. Conover, Is that her typewriter? Is that the typewriter?

Mr. Scott, We have show and tell.

Ms. Cochran, The rest of the parts we have inside.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, well, no, we'll take your word for it. You look like two honest people from the whole group out here. You want to transfer in Fund 108.11, the amount of $4,230 from account 1120 Hourly to account 4440 Furniture & Fixtures over $100. You want to transfer $610 from account 1120, which is Hourly to account 3610, which is Maintenance Agreements. Correct?

Mr. Scott, Yes.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Portage Reassessment, the amounts of $4,230 and $610. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mr. Scott, I don't get to speak, huh?

Ms. Stroud, Well.

Mr. Scott, Thank you.

Mrs. Conover, I think you spoke volumes, really.

Ms. Stroud, There's been plenty of times we wanted you to speak, you know, but tonight is not one of them.

Mr. Scott, Thank you.

JUVENILE PROBATION USER FEES 47
Additional Appropriation

$824 into account 1210 FICA

Ms. Stroud, Good evening. How are you?

Amy Beier, Fine, how are you?

Ms. Stroud, Oh I think I'm pretty good. This is Fund 47, so this is not the general fund. You need an additional appropriation of $824 in account 1210 for FICA. Is that correct?

Ms. Beier, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, You did not have enough money to pay your FICA?

Ms. Beier, Well, it was back in July I had come before requesting an additional appropriation in the amount of $5,500 for part-time hourly. However, at that time I neglected to consider FICA. So I apologize for that.

Ms. Stroud, This one is small in detail.

Ms. Beier, Yes, in August the Auditor's office called me and brought that to my attention and gave me the figure of $824 as being the correct amount, so that's why I'm here.

Ms. Stroud, To finish out the year, that's what you need.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Juvenile Probation User Fees, the amount of $824. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, that takes care of yours.

Ms. Beier, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're quite welcome.

JUVENILE DETENTION 01.80
Transfer

$250 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 3610 Maintenance Agreements
$600 from accent 3130 Training & Education into account 4440 Furniture & Fixtures over $100
$145 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions

Ms. Stroud, Juvenile Detention transfer. Good evening.

Ken Perkins, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, This is Fund 01.80, the amount of $250 from account 3130 Training & Education to account, line item, 3610 Maintenance Agreements. The amount of $600 from 3130 Training & Education to 4440 Furniture & Fixtures. The amount of $145 from account 3130 Training & Education to 3930 Dues & Subscriptions. Is that correct, Mr. Perkins?

Mr. Perkins, That is correct.

Ms Stroud, Okay. This is a transfer so I need a motion.

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Juvenile Detention, the amounts of $250, $600 and $145. Ms. Martin seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mr. Perkins, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're quite welcome.

CIRCUIT COURT 01.81
Transfer

$100 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 2120 Office Fixtures
$450 from account 3120 Consultants into account 2110 Office Supplies
$1,000 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 3170 Interpreters
$1,200 from account 3710 into account 3110 Other Legal

Ms. Stroud, Here come the judges; look out.

Judge Tom Webber, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, Good evening. Let me see what we have here. Circuit Court.

Judge Webber, Yes, we are asking, the first request is to transfer $100.

Ms. Stroud, For Office Supplies 2110 to 2120. That was the original request.
Judge Webber, Right.

Ms. Stroud, Then there is an addendum to transfer.

Judge Webber, Additional.

Ms. Stroud, $450 to Office Supplies.

Judge Webber, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, And $1,000 to Interpreters.

Judge Webber, Interpreters.

Ms. Stroud, And $1,200 to Other Legal.

Judge Webber, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, But they didn't say where they were coming from.

Judge Webber, The $450 is coming from Consultants 3120. The Interpreters is coming from 3130 Training & Education. Other Legal is coming from Rentals 3710.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I found it. Thank you very much. I didn't flip the page.

Judge Webber, Okay.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the requests for transfer of funds submitted by Circuit Court, the amounts of $100, $450, $1,000 and $1,200. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Judge Webber, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're welcome.

GENERAL COURTS 01.78
Transfer

$7,500 from account 1120 Hourly into account 2340 Law Books

Judge Webber, The next item is for General Courts and I discussed that at budget time. I talked about the shortage we had over the last couple of years in Law Books.

Ms. Stroud, Right.

Judge Webber, We are transferring to try and get that whole situation straightened out and I think we have.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, so what they want to do is transfer $7,500 from account 1120 Hourly to account 2430 Law Books. I need a motion to approve.

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by General Courts, the amount of $7,500. Ms. Martin seconded, motion carried unanimously.

SUPERIOR COURT 2 - WEBBER 01.83
Transfer

$500 from account 3110 Legal/Pauper into account 2110 Office Supplies

Judge Webber, Lastly is the transfer into Office Supplies.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, you want to transfer to your Office Supplies, you want to transfer $500 from Fund 01.83 from account 3110 Legal/Pauper to account 2110 Office Supplies.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Superior Court 2, the amount of $500. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Judge Webber, Thank you much.

Ms. Stroud, You're quite welcome.

SUPERIOR COURT 4 - KENNEDY 01.37
Transfer

$200 from account 4410 Office Equipment over $100 into account 3130 Training & Education
$328 from account 4410 Office Equipment over $100 into account 3460 Liability Insurance
$500 from account 4410 Office Equipment over $100 into account 3110 Legal/Pauper

Ms. Stroud, Another judge. Superior Court 4, Judge Kennedy.

Judge Robert Kennedy, Right, how are you this evening?

Ms. Stroud, I am fine. How are you?

Judge Kennedy, I am wonderful.

Ms. Stroud, Good, glad to hear it. Okay, you have a request to transfer $200 to Training & Education. Let me do it this way. The amount of $200 from account 4410 Office Equipment to account 3130 Training & Education. The amount of $328 from account 4410 Office Equipment to account 3460 Liability Insurance. And you want to transfer $500 from 4410 Office Equipment to account 3110 Legal/Pauper. Is that correct?

Judge Kennedy, That's correct.

Ms. Stroud, We need a motion.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Superior Court 4, the amounts of $200, $328 and $500. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

SUPERIOR COURT 6 - THODE 01.39
Transfer

$49 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 3110 Legal

Judge Kennedy, Now I'm Jeff Thode.

Ms. Stroud, Now you're Judge Thode. Judge Thode had a request--wait a minute, I skipped one here. Which one is it, the three?

Mrs. Dziabo, The $49 one, yes.

Ms. Stroud, Just the $49, that's all he wants and he's taking this one out. Okay.

Judge Kennedy, Right.

Ms. Stroud, Judge Thode wants to transfer $49 to Legal from account, I would assume it's from account 3130 to account 3110. Is that correct?

Ms. Martin, Yes.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Superior Court 6, the amount of $49. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Judge Kennedy, Thank you very much. Have a good night.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you. Yes, you too. I didn't flip enough pages here.

ENVIRONMENTAL 01.33
Transfer

$3,636 from account 1120 Hourly into account 1110 Salaries

Ms. Stroud, Environmental.

Russell Shirley, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, Good evening, how are you?

Mr. Shirley, Good.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, you also want to transfer funds.

Mr. Shirley, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, Fund 01.33 in the amount of $3,636 from account 1120, which is part-time to account 1110 full-time. Is that correct?

Mr. Shirley, Correct.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Environmental, the amount of $3,636. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mr. Shirley, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you very much.

ASSESSOR 01.09
Transfer

$15 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 3930

Ms. Stroud, Assessor.

Ms. Martin, She doesn't need to be here, it's under $200.

Mr. Carmichael, Shirley needs $15 for something.

Ms. Stroud, The Assessor's is only $15 and she does not need to be here. She wants to take $15 from account 2110 to account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Assessor, the amount of $15. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

BOONE TOWNSHIP 01.51
Transfer

$19.98 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 4510 Data Processing Equipment

Ms. Stroud, Boone Township Assessor, this is a small amount also. She wants to transfer from account 2110 Office Supplies to account 4510 Data Processing Equipment, the amount of $19.98.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Boone Township, the amount of $19.98. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

CENTER TOWNSHIP 01.10
Transfer

$850 from account 1120 Hourly into account 1110 Salaries

Ms. Stroud, Center Township wants to transfer.

Susan Larson, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, Good evening. You forgot the months.

Mrs. Larson, Well actually I thought it was me that made the mistake--because I'm wanting to do that quite often--however I guess it was just a mix up when we took the 10% and we took whole employee out, I guess it got taken out.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, so you're moving it around in other words.

Mrs. Larson, Yes, just moving it so we have enough at the end of the year.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, so you're transferring, this is Fund 01.10, the amount of $850 from account 1120 Hourly to account 1110 Salaries.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Center Township, the amount of $850. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you.

LIBERTY TOWNSHIP 01.53
Transfer

$40 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions
$5,000 from account 1110 Salaries into account 1120 Hourly

Ms. Stroud, Good evening.

Jean Swanson, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, Mrs. Swanson wants to transfer in Fund 01.53, the amount of $40 from account 3130 Training & Education to account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions. Then you want to transfer $5,000 from account 1110 Salaries to account 1120 Hourly. Correct?

Mrs. Swanson, Yes.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Liberty Township, the amounts of $40 and $5,000. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mrs. Swanson, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're welcome.

WESTCHESTER TOWNSHIP 01.12
Transfer

$2,242 from account 1120 Hourly into account 1110 Salaries

Ms. Stroud, Good evening, Mrs. Crone.

Candy Crone, Hello.

Ms. Stroud, You want to transfer, first of all in Fund 01.12, you want to transfer $2,242 from account 1120 Hourly to account 1110 Salaries.

Mrs. Crone, That's right.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Westchester Township, the amount of $2,242. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mrs. Crone, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're welcome.

PUBLIC SAFETY 01.20
Transfer

$2,000 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 1130 Overtime

Ms. Stroud, The next one is Public Safety and the Sheriff.

Chief Deputy Dave Lain, Good evening.

Ms. Stroud, Good evening. You want to take from Training, $2,000 in Fund 01.20 from account 3130 to account 1130 Overtime.

Chief Deputy Lain, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, Before we vote, I have a couple of questions. What was the overtime used for? I noticed on the next request it's $20,000 to Overtime. Can you tell what some of that overtime was used for?

Chief Deputy Lain, Well primarily in the radio room we've had someone leave for a better paying job down south, so we've been running short, that employee. We've had some illnesses, we've had, we just are trying to keep enough people in the radio room at any given time to cover the volume of calls.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, but with the two requests that's $22,000.

Chief Deputy Lain, Oh well that's the radio room, and on the police side…

Ms. Stroud, Here comes your twin. I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you, Mr. Lain.

Chief Deputy Lain, On the police side we've got a, been a major, a major function that we're about to undertake. As you know we'll be moving very soon and we need the funds to assure a smooth and safe move.

Ms. Stroud, So you're asking for the overtime before the time is put in for the move. You haven't moved totally out there yet?

Chief Deputy Lain, No, ma'am.

Mrs. Conover, The jail part hasn't been moved.

Ms. Stroud, I know the jail hasn't been moved. What date are you targeting here?

Chief Deputy Lain, Well it's very soon. We'd rather not make that public at this time.

Ms. Martin, Before December?

Ms. Stroud, How much do you have in bills outstanding right now for overtime?

Chief Deputy, Well off the top of my head I don't know.

Ms. Martin, What do they have outstanding in claims right now? Do you know? Can you look it up?

Mr. Carmichael, Is this all…

Mr. Ruge, So…

Mr. Carmichael, I'm sorry, John.

Ms. Stroud, Go ahead, John.

Mr. Carmichael, Is this all related to the move?

Chief Deputy Lain, Well a substantial portion of it will be, but certainly we'll, we are, we're still going to, I'm sure, incur other overtime issues before the end of the year.

Mr. Carmichael, This doesn't pay any employees for the 'Click it or Ticket' program?

Chief Deputy Lain, No, sir. That's, that's entirely grant money.

Mr. Carmichael, Is that all spent?

Chief Deputy Lain, I don't know if there's another Operation Pullover before the end of the year. I think the last one was Labor Day weekend.

Mr. Carmichael, Well that's good.

Ms. Stroud, I guess my concern is, when I'm looking at $22,000 in overtime, when I first looked at the request I'm assuming that the money has already been spent that we need to pay this and I wanted to know what it was being spent for. If you hadn't moved totally, the jail and so on out there, how you would know the amount. She's going to check it. I'd like to know, you know, how much is outstanding in overtime right now.

Chief Deputy Lain, I don't know how close we are to being current at this moment in time.

Mrs. Dziabo, Under the 01.05, which is the police, right now I'm looking at 9-23, there was a pay of $2,307.55.

Ms. Stroud, Say that again.

Mrs. Dziabo, $23,007.55.

Ms. Martin, In overtime?

Ms. Stroud, $23,000?

Mrs. Dziabo, $2,300.

Ms. Stroud, $2,307.55.

Mrs. Dziabo, Correct, and that was paid out on 9-23.

Ms. Martin, What's the balance?

Mrs. Dziabo, $51.93.

Ms. Martin, What's the total that's been spent in overtime this year so far?

Mrs. Dziabo, So far they've spent $32,949.07.

Mr. Ruge, There's still enough money the Training to transfer and still leave enough money for training?

Chief Deputy Lain, Well the, the training money is, is on the public safety side, Mr. Ruge. That's, that's being utilized to cover overtime for dispatchers, and there's still training money for police officers on the police officer side. That, the money for that we're requesting for the transfer of overtime on the police side comes from unused salaries.

Ms. Martin, Jamie, what, that $2,307, what's, did they show a period that that ended for overtime?

Mrs. Dziabo, No, all it shows here is the detail of when it was paid out.

Ms. Martin, Okay, 9-23.

Sgt. Mike Krawczyk, That would have been for that pay period.

Mrs. Dziabo, I would say for that pay period.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.
Ms. Martin, Okay, if we're looking, if we look at the $32,948 divided by the nine months, they are spending approximately $3,660 a month. There's four months left.

Ms. Stroud, I mean, I just had a hard time when I looked at the $20,000 in overtime. I really…

Chief Deputy Lain, Well I could give, if…

Ms. Stroud, Did.

Chief Deputy Lain, If you, if you'd like to, if you'd like to see the a, see the a, manning plan for the move, which is, no question, quite substantial.

Ms. Stroud, I understand that, but the move hasn't been made yet. The big move hasn't been made yet, so how can you come in for $20,000 thinking that's going to cover it when…

Chief Deputy Lain, We know, we know approximately what it will cost.

Ms. Stroud, Can people do it on their regular shifts, we have to pay overtime?

Chief Deputy Lain, No, they can't do it on the regular shifts. They are answering calls on the regular shifts. We can go back to comp-time I suppose.

Ms. Stroud, I mean, I understand it comes under public safety. I'm just very frustrated, the amount of $22,000 in overtime, when we haven't even completed the move out, number one. Number two, if we've already been spending overtime money what's it been spent for? During the year what's all the overtime money been spent for?

Sgt. Krawczyk, The officer gets a call towards the end of the shift, he has to do his paperwork. The paperwork has to be in before he goes home because of court requirements, and one simple public intoxication arrest can take two hours of paperwork, which is overtime, and that's just a PI arrest. If it's a felony crime it can take three to four hours for the paper.

Ms. Stroud, I mean, I realize that there's overtime, don't get me wrong. It's just that big amount of money right now.

Mrs. Conover, Could it be that the last payout included part of the murder investigation?

Chief Deputy Lain, Well undoubtedly that was, well I'm, I don't know, quite frankly whether that was part of the same pay, from that pay period or not. It's possible, but without, without knowing exactly what dates that occurred I don't know. But that, that is a prime example of what it takes to take care of public safety.

Mrs. Conover, It was the first night, it was the night of the sheriff's budget hearing that that murder had happened.

Ms. Stroud, Well I understand. I mean, I know that you have to have overtime. I guess I would feel a little more comfortable with this after the shifts have been worked, if you have to come back to us for the additional or the transfer, rather than putting it in there before the fact.

Ms. Martin, Well then why don't we reduce it $10,000?

Ms. Stroud, You know, do you see what I'm saying? I just have a real problem with putting $20,000 in there. It's almost like saying that the $20,000 is there; we spend it.

Chief Deputy Lain, Well that's, that's not the way we operate.

Ms. Stroud, But, we're operating under, you know, strict…

Chief Deputy Lain, Oh I certainly understand and we're not asking for any additional funds. This is a transfer of funds that, that have been unspent because we've had unpaid salaries. And it is, it is a direct result of a mandate from this Council that we reduce compensatory time, which was in the thousands of hours, I believe, several years ago, and as a result of that mandate, the mandate was to reduce that and other than using the overtime or volunteerism, I don't know another way to do that.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, I mean, I guess I have a hard time because I've gone through so many figures and so on. I was doing some comparisons these last few days after we got this, and I was looking through and we're ninth in population in the State--okay--countywide. Full-time personnel in 2002 listed--now I'm going by the chamber, the Farm Bureau--is 60 people, full-time. That's just that. Which when I went back and did the numbers, that puts us sixth in positions as far as the number of employees. Yet, we have to have all this overtime. I'm very frustrated with the numbers. I'm very, very frustrated with the numbers because we are in such a tight crunch, and I understand where you are coming from. I understand it's public safety and so on.

Chief Deputy Lain, How does it, I'm, I'm curious, and I don't know the answer.

Ms. Stroud, Dave, I'm using, I'm using the composite here.

Chief Deputy Lain, Does that, does that delineate between municipal, does that delineate between municipal population within those counties and the, and the unincorporated populations?

Ms. Stroud, This is just full-time personnel in the sheriff's department.

Ms. Martin, Unincorporated, county.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, this is county. This is county, so, and you're listed at 60. Okay. That's just for the sheriff's department, full-time. Now I'm just going by what I have here. I did the numbers and it places you sixth in number--total number--in the counties of 92 counties. In area, we're ninth in population. So it tells me that particular ratio, you know, I'm not saying you're overstaffed. That's not what I am saying, but there's plenty of people there. I just have a hard time appropriating $20,000, looking down the road saying that this is what we think we are going to need when the move hasn't even been made yet. You know, there has to be other reasons why overtime was used, I mean, why you need overtime money, because everything hasn't moved out there yet. Do you understand? Do you see what I'm saying?

Sgt. Krawczyk, Traffic accidents, criminal investigations, that type of thing.

Mr. Carmichael, However this $20,000 has already been appropriated. It's not as if you're appropriating additional monies.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, I know.

Mr. Carmichael, It's already been appropriated. It just hasn't been expended.

Ms. Stroud, I understand that, Bill. I understand appropriations.

Mr. Carmichael, All they are doing is transferring from one line item to another.

Ms. Stroud, Just because something is appropriated doesn't mean it has to be spent.

Mr. Carmichael, Well, very true. We haven't spent it so far.

Ms. Stroud, No, but he's already telling me he's going to spend $20,000. I'll call for the question, but I just want you to know how I feel.

Ms. Martin, I don't think a motion has even been made.

Ms. Stroud, No, it hasn't. I mean, I just want you to know that I'm not happy with having, you know, I mean, I understand it comes under public safety. I understand all this, but I'm very frustrated because it's a big amount of money, and with things being what they are, and just because it's appropriated it doesn't mean it has to be spent. I mean, you know, we could take it back and say as a council sometime down the road, we're going to start with zero in your budgets.
You can tell I'm upset. I don't get upset too often, but I was. The last few days when I saw the numbers come in I was upset, because we have Dave telling us that we may have, if we're lucky, $55,000 at the end of the year. Then I would think that everybody would be trying to be as conservative as possible so that we would have money in there, you know, and I understand why you've done it. I understand public safety. I'm very frustrated with it. I guess maybe that's where I'm coming from, and to put a number in there, even though it's been appropriated, you know, it's like saying 'I'm making, whatever you make every year, so I appropriate every penny and I have to spend it.'
You know, I know some counties where they do start with zero. They do every budget, you know, and that's it. You have to come in with every request. It's a lot of work and it's very hard, we're a pretty big county to do that. But, you know, it's very frustrating to think that, and the departments do the same thing; the money is there, you know, we haven't spent it, so we'll transfer it. That doesn't mean it has to be spent.

Ms. Martin, I guess the thing that I see is that this is one department that has overtime. A lot of departments don't have overtime.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Ms. Martin, And they've even gone with less employees and they still don't have the option of overtime.

Ms. Stroud, So, but okay.

Mrs. Knoblock, I heard…

Mrs. Conover, I just wanted to add, I'm sorry Carole.

Mrs. Knoblock, That's okay, go ahead.

Mrs. Conover, We've never, well in recent years moved the jail. Where did you derive your numbers from, a study and manpower involved in this? I mean it sounds like it's going to be a complicated thing, and I know you've been working on it for a couple of years.

Chief Deputy Lain, Well I, I can tell you that, that movement of prisoners is going to take a substantial percentage of the figure that we've named this evening.

Ms. Stroud, Just moving the prisoners over?

Chief Deputy Lain, Absolutely.

Ms. Stroud, Because you have to bring them in from other shifts and so on and pay that.

Chief Deputy Lain, Absolutely.

Mrs. Conover, And it's very high security and whatnot and that's why you can't release your dates.

Chief Deputy Lain, I'll be happy to discuss outside of the public forum.

Mrs. Knoblock, How many more meetings are we going to have?

Ms. Stroud, We will have one on October 29th and in December. Like I said I was just frustrated when I saw the number.

Mrs. Knoblock, Why don't we table it and see?

Sgt. Krawczyk, You'll be holding up people's payroll then. They are entitled to get paid when they work and we don't have any money to pay them.

Ms. Stroud, You're entitled to make a motion to table it, but I have to call for, you know.

Ms. Martin, Yes, but how can you prove overtime when there are no funds available?

Sgt. Krawczyk, We just ran into the issue where there's no funds available, that's why we, we…

Ms. Martin, But isn't it not your responsibility to know what's in those numbers and do you not work with the timecards and do you not know how much is in overtime, then you should know what's left. Correct?

Sgt. Krawczyk, We do know what's left.

Ms. Martin, But you just said you ran into a situation where you didn't know what was left.

Sgt. Krawczyk, We filed this almost a month ago to get this, so we wouldn't be in a hole. And if it helps with the issue, you know, when you're talking about having money and spending it just because you have it, we have not spent all of our appeal money or our DUI taskforce money. Some of that went back because even though it's paying premium time from not, you know, as Mr. Carmichael brings up, you know, it may not be paying for the cars, but it's paying salaries. We can't get people to work that, they're tired. But we have to; we have to have our shifts manned. We have to do our public safety.

Ms. Martin, I guess Barb's point is well taken in the fact that we're number six with reference to the amount of employees in that department, but number nine, and we still used $32,000 in overtime this year.

Sgt. Krawczyk, If you recall the meeting that I know you and I were both at a couple of years ago, and we were looking at the compensatory time, we figured, and it was, you know, a joint venture between the Council and the department that it would take $100,000 in overtime to man this county properly to do the things that we have been doing.

Ms. Martin, I don't remember $100,000 as the number, but we've been giving you additional employees as well as additional management. I would suggest that we not approve the whole $20,000 and maybe approve part of it, because if they, if they are already in a position where they've already spent the money, I mean you can't tie up the…

Ms. Stroud, Well they have two requests on here so let's take it by steps here. The first one was for Public Safety, Fund 01.20, in the amount of $2,000 to transfer from account 3130 Training to account 1130 Overtime, the amount of $2,000.

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Public Safety, the amount of $2,000. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

SHERIFF 01.05
Transfer

$20,000 from account 1110 Salaries into account 1130 Overtime, amended to $15,000

Ms. Stroud, Alright, the second request is to transfer from Salaries, from line item 1110, the amount of $20,000 to account 1130 Overtime, the amount of $20,000.

Mr. Ruge, Is there an excess amount in the Salaries, $20,000?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes.

Chief Deputy Lain, Yes.

Sgt. Krawczyk, There's sufficient funds to cover it.

Mrs. Knoblock, Okay, they've got two here, I make a motion we take eight out of the twenty.

Ms. Martin, Well there are two different departments though, Carole.

Mrs. Knoblock, Oh.

Ms. Stroud, They are two different ones.

Ms. Martin, The first one has to do with the operators for 911.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mrs. Knoblock, Oh okay. Alright.

Mrs. Knoblock, Let's go half. Right now.

Chief Deputy Lain, If I, if I may interject. Half that figure is going to be used during the move of, of the jail population. So we'll be…

Ms. Stroud, $10,000 is what you are figuring that will be used.

Chief Deputy, So, so we'll be back to $50 in the account.

Ms. Martin, I thought you just said a minute ago that the full amount would be used for the move.

Chief Deputy Lain, No.

Ms. Martin, Now you are saying only $10,000.

Chief Deputy, No, I said no, I said a substantials, substantial portion of that will be used. I, I didn't really want to discuss it in a public forum.

Ms. Martin, Well I don't think we are asking for specifics…

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Ms. Martin, Mr. Lain.

Chief Deputy Lain, Well we're…

Ms. Martin, I think what we're…

Chief Deputy Lain, We're expecting, we're expecting that…

Ms. Martin, It would be nice to say…

Chief Deputy Lain, This move…

Ms. Martin, So many, just to cover overtime, so many hours or because of this instance we had this situation. I mean, we get what, four or five sentences from everyone else and we get five words.

Mr. Carmichael, Will $10,000 do it for you for right now?

Sgt. Krawczyk, That…

Chief Deputy Lain, That will co…, that will cover the move, which is imminent, but then we won't be able to pay overtime past that.

Mrs. Conover, What would be the comfortable amount to take you through, to take this line item through our next meeting in December and considering the payroll?

Ms. Stroud, Well we're meeting at the end of October too. We're meeting the 29th.

Sgt. Krawczyk, I would say $15,000, because the $10,000 will cover the move and then $5,000 would cover more, more than cover our average monthly expenditures.

Ms. Martin, You spend $5,000 a month in overtime?

Mr. Carmichael, $3,300 is what he said.

Sgt. Krawczyk, We spend about $3,300 a month on an average.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Chief Deputy Lain, We, we don't, we don't know what our overtime expenses will be.

Sgt. Krawczyk, One homicide or one fatal accident can, you know, because of the investigative nature of that type of thing can just eat up the money.

Ms. Stroud, So that would take you through, if we said if you could go with $15,000, $10,000 for the move and that would take you through the rest of October into November and we meet the first week in December, if we had to, if you had to transfer more.

Sgt. Krawczyk, Barring any catastrophic, you know, occurrence.

Ms. Stroud, I would just feel better if we could make some compromise on it so that, you know, it's not committed at this point, all of it's not committed at this point in time.

Mrs. Conover, I think the compromise possibly was suggested.

Mrs. Conover moved to amend the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Sheriff's Department, from the amount of $20,000 to $15,000. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Chief Deputy Lain, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you.

CORONER 01.07
Transfer

$550 from account 3210 Travel into account 2220 Uniforms & Clothing

Ms. Stroud, The Coroner's Office.

Com. John Evans, I would be glad to fill in for the coroner.

Ms. Stroud, Well you're going back in your old shoes there, aren't you.

Com. Evans, He's asking for a transfer of $550.

Ms. Stroud, Correct.

Com. Evans, And I'm not sure what that's about.

Ms. Stroud, Okay it's…

Com. Evans, But I know what the other one is about.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, here's what he has. He's going to transfer $550--you are correct, Mr. Evans--from account 3210 Travel to account 2220 Uniforms & Clothing. He says that they have been having some--and I read this before--difficulties when they went to a death scene with the law enforcement since they did not have a standard uniform with identification, that they needed to get some shirts and badges that made them look official and so on. So I think that's the reason. Am I correct?

Com. Evans, I think that's it.

Mrs. Conover, Is there still a law that the coroner is the only one allowed to arrest the sheriff?

Com. Evans, Yes, so I don't suppose it would make a difference if that was going to happen.

Mrs. Conover, And they want to keep the coroner off the accident scene.

Mrs. Conover moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Coroner, the amount of $550. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Additional Appropriation

$35,000 into account 3120 Consultants (Autopsy)

Com. Evans, And the other one is an additional for autopsy fees.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, I hadn't flipped the page nor had I looked down at my agenda.

Com. Evans, It's $35,000.

Ms. Stroud, $35,000.

Com. Evans, Of course you should be aware that the coroner has the constitutional authority to order an autopsy whenever he deems it necessary and the law is very clear. It says: you will pay for it. So actually he's just trying to cover himself until the end of the year, and any money that's left in there goes back to your general fund, so.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by the Coroner, the amount of $35,000.

Ms. Stroud, I'm well aware of what the law says, Mr. Evans, just so he's not ordering my autopsy, I'm happy. Okay. He needs an additional appropriation of $35,000 in account 3120, and I think someone made the motion.

Mrs. Knoblock, I did.

Ms. Stroud, And we need a second.

Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, Motion carries, so you can tell him to get his uniforms so he's official or he looks official anyway, and he can…

Com. Evans, He can pay his pathologist.

Ms. Stroud, He can pay his pathologist.

Mr. Hollenbeck, We can't guarantee that the check won't bounce, but we'll pay the bill.

Com. Evans, I understand that.

Ms. Stroud, And please don't call me.

Com. Evans, Whose next?

Ms. Stroud, The commissioners.

Com. Evans, Oh I'll stay here then.

COMMISSIONERS 01.30
Transfer

$4,007 from account 3420 Bldg/Liability/Comp Coverage into account 3430 Workmen's Comp
$62.22 from account 3970 Memorial Day Expenses into account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions
$9.88 from account 3320 Legal Notice into account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions
$500 from account 2430 Law Books into account 3630 Equipment other than Vehicles
$780 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 3120 Consultants
$10.04 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 3973 Change of Venue
$650 from account 3320 Legal Notice into account 3340 Advertising

Ms. Stroud, Okay, they want to transfer. We'll do the transfers first. Let see, I've got a whole list of transfers. Do you want to take them; I think we can take all the transfers at once here. I think. For the transfers I'm going to read through what they want to transfer, and I think we can take that in one motion and then we'll go from there. Okay?

Ms. Martin, Okay.

Ms. Stroud, Alright, it is Fund 01.30, they want to transfer $4,007 from account 3420 Bldg/Liability to account 3430 Workmen's Comp. They want to the amount of $62.22 from Memorial Day Expenses to account 3930 Dues & Subscriptions. They want to transfer $9.88 from 3320 Legal Notice to 3930 Dues & Subscriptions. They want to transfer $500 from 2430 Law Books to 3630 Equipment Repair. They want to transfer $650 from 3320 Legal Notice to 3340 Advertising. They want to transfer, oh wait a minute this is another fund. Those that I just read, were Fund 01.30. Now the Building Maintenance that's a different fund, so why don't we do those general fund ones first. Is that correct?

Mrs. Conover, Yes.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Commissioners, the amounts of $4,007, $62.22, $9.88, $500 and $650.

Ms. Stroud, A motion has been made and we need a second.

Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

CCD FUND 132.30
Transfer

$1,300 from account 3620 Bldg Maintenance into account 3630 Equipment other than Vehicles

Ms. Stroud, Then you have Fund 132.30 for Bldg Maintenance, you want to transfer out of that fund, $1,300 to account 3630 Equipment other than Vehicles. Okay.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the CCD Fund, the amount of $1,300. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

COMMISSIONERS 01.30 - RESUMED
Additional Appropriation

$40,000 into account 3440 Unemployment, amended to $20,000

Ms. Stroud, The one is an additional and this is making me choke here. I don't want the coroner, but it's making me choke.

Com. Evans, He's not here so that's good.

Ms. Stroud, That's good, that's good news. Okay, they are asking for $40,000 from Fund 01.30, account 3440 for Unemployment, needed to pay unemployment benefits. Are you saying this will take us to the end of the year?

Com. Dave Burrus, Yes, let me explain what we've done, Barb. A month or maybe two ago, we were here for the same request and at that time the Council granted a $44,000 additional for unemployment insurance. Of that number of dollars we were going to pay, not only unemployment benefits, but some transferred money back that we had transferred into that fund earlier.

Ms. Stroud, Okay.

Com. Burrus, In an effort to eliminate or to have to pay substantial late fees and penalties we went ahead and applied the entire $44,000 to unemployment claims. That carries us up through the month of August. We are clear with the State as of the 30th or 31st of August. For September, or our most recent, I believe, was still averaging around $12,000 per month. We had one recent one that's dipping down a little bit less than that. But our thought is this, if we average the rest of the year, four months at $12,000 a month, that would come in at $48,000. We currently have a balance in that fund of around $7,600. So the $40,000 additional should carry us to the end of the year with no provision for any reimbursements. But I think we're finally beginning to see the reduction start in our claims. So we're projecting this, but we're still not positive exactly how it's going to balance out.

Ms. Stroud, I think my feeling is, I mean, the same thing as I was saying to the sheriff's department, do you, are you firm on thinking that we need to do the additional for the whole amount at this point in time or could we go ahead and maybe, until we see what's going to happen? Would it be better to do it that way? I mean, I'm just throwing that out.

Mrs. Conover, We get into penalties and fines if we're late in our payment.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, well I was thinking of…

Ms. Martin, We only have four weeks to our next meeting.

Ms. Stroud, We are going to meet at the end of October. He'd have the figures for September that would be finalized and if that ones down a little bit, and I'm just thinking of keeping the money, quote, in the general fund.

Com. Burrus, We would be happy to do that.

Ms. Stroud, It's in there, but not appropriated.

Com. Burrus, If you don't mind the extra.

Com. Evans, We can come back.

Ms. Stroud, I mean, we are going to meet at the end of the month, then we are going to meet the first month in December. I didn't mean the first month in December, I'm alright, the first week in December, so that would, you would need maybe for, if you don't know everything for October, November and the finalized for the year.

Com. Burrus, We can find it at the end of the year.

Ms. Stroud, If maybe we could approve like $20,000 of this. I would just feel a little more comfortable until we see what's going to happen with our tax draws and everything.

Mrs. Conover, When did we start to lay the employees off? Do we…

Mr. Hollenbeck, February.

Com. Burrus, February, I believe it was.

Ms. Stroud, February.

Mrs. Conover, And they are allowed to be on unemployment?

Mr. Hollenbeck, For 26 weeks.

Mrs. Conover, For nine months.

Com. Burrus, It's 26 weeks and I believe you have…

Com. Evans, Then they can apply for an additional 26 weeks.

Mr. Hollenbeck, But then the second 26 starts getting into some federal; it doesn't cost us as much, the second 26 weeks…

Ms. Stroud, So you have a whole year to…

Mr. Hollenbeck, Because that's a federal program.

Ms. Stroud, Find a job.

Com. Evans, Or not.

Com. Burrus, And we do have some that have gone past the first initial 26 weeks.

Ms. Stroud, I mean, I don't know how the rest of the council feels. I just feel…

Ms. Martin, I agree…

Ms. Stroud, A little more comfortable…

Ms. Martin, I think it's the same scenario…

Ms. Stroud, If we…

Ms. Martin, That we had previously. It's like, it's like we're looking at numbers, but we're not working with factual numbers and once it's given out or once it's approved we have no control over it. And that's been the issue on many occasions.

Ms. Stroud, So I would feel a little more comfortable if we could with the $20,000 and then…

Com. Burrus, If you don't mind us coming back that's fine.

Ms. Stroud, I don't mind you coming back. I like to see you every once and a while anyway.

Com. Evans, To argue in our defense, I mean, it's not like we're not, we're trying to work with you here. We've transferred everything we can from every other place we can to put into this fund so that we can do this.

Ms. Stroud, And like you say, it should start winding down a little bit.

Com. Evans, We hope

Ms. Stroud, And so if there's some fluctuation, if you're saying there's a little bit left and at the most it's been $12,000, that's 48, take $7,500, that's $45,500 and hopefully it will be less than that. So if we come down to $20,000 then maybe we can finish out the year by December 3rd.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to amend the request for additional appropriations submitted by the Commissioners from $40,000 to $20,000. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

COUNTY GENERAL 01
Transfer

$150,000 from County General Fund 01 into CCD Fund 132

Com. Burrus, Okay, the other item that came up within the last week or two is a, I guess a notification from the Auditor's office that the CCD Fund, while we are currently within our budgeted amounts, we're faced with the same cash flow crunch--as Dave described it--as the general fund. According, and I don't have the number in front of me right here at the moment, but what we have determined is that to pay outstanding claims or obligated purchase orders we are going to need and additional $150,000 at this time. As a result of the conversation that Dave and I had earlier, the idea would probably be, I guess, Dave, if you want to expand on this would be to go into the possibility of tax money.

Mr. Hollenbeck, As I understand the commissioners' request, this is a request for a transfer of monies from the newly created bailout fund that we created and have deposited the first two net installments of that, which is a little over 1.5 million dollars. Again, that money is there to replace the money that we're not receiving from Bethlehem Steel. This would take the form of a transfer and the theory would be that when the December settlement is made, we would be able to transfer back into that fund, hopefully all or as much as we can of this $150,000, depending on how big of a shortfall we have in December.

Ms. Stroud, Well that was my, when I heard about it that was my concern. I mean, they were filling me in today as far as the request.

Mr. Hollenbeck, This isn't funding any additional appropriations.

Ms. Stroud, This is to transfer from the bailout money.

Mr. Hollenbeck, For cash flow purposes.

Ms. Stroud, For cash flow purposes.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Not even to fund appropriations permanently.

Ms. Stroud, No.

Mr. Hollenbeck, But to fund them so we can…

Ms. Stroud, But with the understanding…

Mr. Hollenbeck, Pay our bills.

Ms. Stroud, That the $150,000 will go back into the fund.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Right, with the caveat that that is a function of how the collections go in December. We may have to revisit that issue if we have a greater shortfall in December than we are anticipating.

Ms. Stroud, Well, but, see I have a problem with that.

Ms. Martin, I have a problem here, a major problem. Well go ahead, whoever wants to.

Ms. Stroud, Well I guess my problem would be, the CCD fund, theirs is a tax draw just like we are with the general fund, and if we are borrowing the money as a county, then obviously we have to pay that money back. I can't in good conscience say that I'm going to give, transfer $150,000 to the CCD fund with the caveat that they may or may not be able to pay that back. That money has to be put back in there.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Barb, the only reason it wouldn't be paid back is if there isn't adequate funding from the December property tax draw. We don't know what that's going to be.

Ms. Martin, So that's the problem, Dave, because of the fact that this is a cumulative capital development fund. It's not a general fund, and in all actuality that is for capital needs, and capital needs were supposedly be put at a hold and prioritized. That is how it was supposed to be spent. Now you're saying transferring $150,000, I'm sorry, but we're, that $150,000 is supposed to be used for the general fund. First of all you are saying monies that they are not receiving from Bethlehem Steel. Okay, CCD is totally different than the general fund, and…

Mr. Hollenbeck, But it…

Ms. Martin, But there may not…

Mr. Hollenbeck, But it's supported by the taxes.

Ms. Martin, The bottom line, Dave, is they may not be able to get it back and we're slitting our own throats by making that money available to buy computers or to work on roads when we have other issues that are more of a priority.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well, I'm just telling you that what this is, it is a transfer of, it's exactly the same cash flow problem that the general fund had in February, the CCD fund now has in October.

Ms. Martin, But you can't guarantee that they will be getting all the money back to repay us.

Ms. Stroud, That's…

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well we can't guarantee the general fund is going to get that either.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, but…

Ms. Martin, The difference is we have to support full government on the general fund. This is in addition to the daily functions of the general fund.

Mr. Hollenbeck, In talking to the commissioners they were committed to say that this was a cash flow transfer that would be paid back. The only reason I even bring up the fact that that could be problematic is nobody can project what in fact those December real estate property tax payments are going to be.

Ms. Stroud, Well if they…

Mr. Hollenbeck, In a perfect world they'd be sitting here saying it's a cash flow issue and the entire amount will be paid back and that may well be exactly what happens.

Ms. Stroud, Well then probably my comment would be that the money, I want the money paid back in there. I want a guarantee that money is going to be paid back in there. They would just have to cut some kind of a program for the end of the year.

Ms. Martin, There are no programs.

Ms. Stroud, Well whatever project or whatever, because we are committed…

Ms. Martin, They knew back in February that they were going to have problems.

Mr. Hollenbeck, And I believe they cut, I'm not here…

Ms. Stroud, Yes, we're not, it's just…

Ms. Martin, Well…

Mr. Hollenbeck, They cut the CCD fund.

Ms. Stroud, It's a logistics kind of thing.

Com. Burrus, We just cut under the direction of the State Board of Accounts, trying to reflect those kinds of reductions in revenue.

Ms. Stroud, Correct, but at the same time since it is a tax rate, and we're taking it out of the general fund, I do not have a problem with that. I have a problem knowing that, I mean, I want a guarantee, I want that money paid back in because we are going to figure out we're paying it from our loan money. So as a council, I mean, we have to pay that money back from general fund money.

Ms. Martin, I have a problem buying cars and buying computers out of the general fund money when we can't even afford our day-to-day process.

Mr. Hollenbeck, It's a cash flow issue though.

Ms. Martin, But you can't, you can't definitely say, Dave, that we're getting the full amount back. So it's not just a cash flow issue.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well, alright I…

Ms. Martin, It is a cash flow questionable whether we'll get it all back issue.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Well that's exactly where we are with the rest of the cash flow problem too. But maybe if these guys are prepared to make a commitment to do that, by if necessary cutting the expenditures in 2003, then that might increase the comfort level of the Council in terms of the wisdom of this.
Mr. Carmichael, How many cars are you buying this year?

Com. Burrus, None.

Com. Evans, Zero.

Mr. Carmichael, How many are you going to buy next year?

Com. Burrus, None.

Com. Evans, None.

Com. Burrus, But…

Mr. Carmichael, That eliminates the cars.

Com. Burrus, Let me say one thing. We've got some obligations that have been incurred prior to two years ago of lease purchase and we're still making good on those.

Mr. Carmichael, On leased vehicles?

Com. Evans, Yes.

Com. Burrus, Lease purchase, the same thing as installment buying.

Ms. Martin, How much of that money goes towards roads?

Com. Burrus, $600,000.

Ms. Martin, And how much of road does that repair?

Com. Burrus, I don't know, I'm not a highway person.

Ms. Martin, You're in charge of the Highway Department, are you not?

Com. Burrus, That's right, I ask experts on that.

Mr. Carmichael, New asphalt, $72,000 a mile.

Ms. Stroud, How much?

Mr. Carmichael, $72,000 a mile on new asphalt. That's not chip and seal. Chip and seal is around $30,000.

Com. Evans, We try and chip and seal as much as we can.

Ms. Stroud, Well I just would like a guarantee that that money is going to be paid back.

Com. Evans, We'd like to guarantee that Bethlehem Steel would pay their taxes.

Ms. Stroud, I understand that, John, but we can't as a council when it's general fund money and that's our loan money that we've got to pay back. If we're missing $150,000 then where are we going to get the $150,000 from?

Ms. Martin, I think what's unique here is, you'll, they'll chastise us for doing this and not looking ahead into the future, but when it's them we're just supposed to go ahead and do it, and I have a problem with that.

Com. Evans, We don't have the luxury of borrowing from our own bridge fund to pay you back.

Ms. Martin, Well you know what, then $150,000 is only what, what two miles of road. Take it out of two miles of road.

Mr. Carmichael, That's Class-A asphalt.

Ms. Martin, Well.

Com. Burrus, I think those numbers are a little distorted, but regardless.

Mrs. Knoblock, I have a problem with the CCD fund being designated to pay for something. I would like to see it in a fund and then if we need it for an emergency, but I know you're obligated…

Com. Evans, The ordinance that creates the CCD fund…

Mrs. Knoblock, Like you said two years ago.

Com. Evans, Also says where it's supposed to be spent.

Ms. Stroud, Yes…

Ms. Martin, But it doesn't say it has to be spent, you can carry it over to the next year.

Mrs. Knoblock, But they have an obligation, I know that too, that they didn't make.

Com. Burrus, Well I think we can commit to this $150,000, but that's going to necessitate exactly what you are suggesting in some major cuts. So if you are prepared to stand tall with it we can do that.

Ms. Stroud, Well then that's what I, I mean, I would feel more comfortable if I would get the commitment.

Com. Burrus, Now one other number…

Ms. Stroud, If the motion, I mean…

Com. Burrus, One other number you need to be aware of…

Ms. Stroud, I can step down and make a motion. I mean, you know, I just feel very uncomfortable without the guarantee in there that the $150,000 would be not be paid back. If it means cutting something else out then we're going to have to cut it out. But I cannot in good conscience borrow from the State, these millions of dollars, and then we're obligated as a council to pay it back when I've put it, you know, put $150,000 over here. That's interest and payment or whatever. It's not a payment, but I mean, you know, I just can't, I can't see that without a guarantee that it's not going to be paid back.

Com. Burrus, Okay.

Com. Evans, I understand your position.

Ms. Stroud, I need a motion.

Com. Burrus, You have that commitment on this $150,000.

Ms. Stroud, Well then we could state in the motion. Do I have a motion? My vice isn't here. I could step down.

Mr. Carmichael, What is the motion that you're looking for?

Ms. Stroud, I'm looking for a motion that would approve $150,000…

Ms. Martin, To the CCD fund…

Ms. Stroud, To the CCD fund…

Ms. Martin, That we get it back in December of this year.

Ms. Stroud, With the…

Com. Evans, We'll guarantee we'll give it back.

Ms. Stroud, That you would give it back.

Ms. Martin, In December of this year.

Mr. Carmichael moved to approve the transfer of funds, the amount of $150,000 from the County General Fund to the CCD Fund to be paid back by December 31, 2002. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you, gentlemen.

AUDITOR 01.02
Transfer

$5,683 from account 1120 Hourly into account 1110 Salaries
$400 from account 2120 Office Fixtures under $100 into account 1110 Salaries
$1,200 from account 3130 Training & Education into account 1110 Salaries

Ms. Stroud, Auditor.

Mrs. Vuko, I'm back here.

Ms. Stroud, I know you're back there. Ms. Auditor is behind me over here. Alright, the Auditor is requesting a transfer of funds from Fund 01.02, $5,683, account 1120 Part-time to 1110 Salaries. Fund 01.02, $400 from account 2120 Office Fixtures to account 1110 Salaries and 01.02, the amount of $1,200 from account 3130 Training & Education to 1110 Salaries. She's got the explanation to cover her RIF policy, the employees were paid in January and so on, part-time, now they need the salaries in there. I need a motion to approve the transfer.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by the Auditor, the amounts of $5,683, $400 and $1,200. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, I think I missed one. No, this is a different fund.

AUDITOR REASSESSMENT 108.02
Transfer

$2,165.50 from account 1120 Hourly into account 1110 Salaries

Ms. Stroud, This is a request to transfer funds, Fund 108.02, the amount of $2,165.50 from account 1120 Hourly to 1110 Salaries. I need a motion to approve.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds submitted by Auditor Reassessment. Ms. Martin seconded, motion carried unanimously.

BAIL OUT FUND 219
Transfer

$900, 000 from Bailout Fund 219 into County General Fund 01

Mrs. Vuko, Barb.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mrs. Vuko, I have one more thing.

Ms. Stroud, You do.

Mrs. Vuko, Do you have a copy of this letter that I submitted?

Ms. Stroud, A letter that you submitted?

Mr. Hollenbeck, I've got that. Do you want to talk about that now?

Mrs. Vuko, Oh. Yes.

Mr. Hollenbeck, In the same context of the commissioners' request on the cash flow issues and the CCD fund, I'm passing down now a copy of the request that the auditor is making. Again, the bailout proceeds are, have been segregated in a separate fund for accounting purposes, so the auditor can track their utilization. I might as well also pass down then simultaneously the next document, which shows that on October 1st, the general fund cash balance was $706,000. As you remember from the cash flow statement I've provided you this isn't least bit surprising and indeed is consistent with what had been projected that we would be out of money by the end of this month. Specifically the auditor's request is that you authorize a transfer of $900,000 from the bailout fund to the general fund so that the bills in October can be paid.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, so what they are requesting is from the funds that came from the bailout money, that is in Fund 219 go to our general fund, which is 001, the amount of $900,000. Is that correct?

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for transfer of funds, $900,000 from Fund 219 into Fund 001. Mr. Ruge seconded.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. It's been moved and seconded that we transfer the money. All in favor.

Motion carried unanimously.

Mrs. Vuko, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, You're welcome.

SURVEYOR 01.06
Kevin Breitzke to address the Council concerning the hiring freeze

Ms. Stroud, Next on the agenda--he's already taking his seat up here--is the Surveyor.

Kevin Breitzke, Thank you. Today I just wanted to talk to you about the hiring freeze and the essential elements of what's happened. I had an employee leave me recently for a job in Indianapolis. We're a five-person department, now we're down to four, and I don't know what the future is going to bear. We're all overworked as we all are in government, and morale isn't particularly high, but I needed to at least make an effort to approach you about replacing an individual. Whether it's at this time or, you know, next year at some time, if you had any feeling at this time. From what I've heard tonight it doesn't sound too optimistic.
However, I also wanted to do maybe a commercial for the fact that we're not a say, unpurposeful office. We have many functions, we service many departments and many different elected officials throughout the county and try our best. We hope that we can maintain just as high of service and we'll still make every effort to do it. However, it just enhances our overall operation. We have one office administrator, we have one survey technician, one drainage manager, one draftsman and myself, and we handle an ever-increasing demand on doing drainage work throughout the county, both with the County Highway, with its roadside ditching project, as well as many projects we've taken on through assessment.
Historically we've just done a substantial increase in the number of assessments. We have a number of unfunded mandates coming down from IDEM, EPA and the DNR that we're trying work in coordination with the commissioners that the County complies with. The number one, unfunded mandate coming up is called Rule 13 of all things, and all the cities and towns are affected by this that's going to require extra efforts in controlling non-point source for water pollution so we're identifying watersheds and outlets into our streams, our lakes, our rivers. Everybody is trying to do this internally, the cities, the universities; anybody with a population of more than 7,000 is affected.
We cover 83% of the land area in this county is unincorporated. So that basically becomes more of our responsibility as a county for example that we have to be looking into and in a very short period of time be accountable. But I just wanted you to be aware that we have ever-increasing pressure--although I'm sure you already were--from the State and Feds…

Ms. Martin, Pressure, what's pressure, Kevin.

Mr. Breitzke, That's why we're all here so late at night.

Ms. Martin, For my personal opinion, I would suggest that you wait until the first of the year. I mean, I assume that it will take, it's take you about six weeks anyway to interview and advertise and everything else.

Mr. Breitzke, Right, well…

Ms. Martin, So.

Mr. Breitzke, And the other reason, I have already had a couple very good inquiries into the position, but I wasn't going to commit that we'd available at the beginning of the year unless I heard something positive tonight.

Mrs. Conover, Did we budget it? Was that in your budget request for 2003, that position?

Mr. Breitzke, Yes, it is.
Ms. Stroud, Yes he has it in his budget.

Mrs. Conover, Okay.

Ms. Stroud, You have four altogether, right. You're down to three? Is that correct? There's four of you?

Mr. Breitzke, We had five, we're down to four.

Ms. Stroud, You had five, down to four, okay.

Mr. Breitzke, I've got two long-time employees, both which are growing the maximum of vacation time, and one of them is out right now. Quite frankly, I'm worn out.

Ms. Stroud, We all are.

Mr. Breitzke, But I keep going.

Ms. Stroud, We all are. Yes, you are losing your hair. I hope I'm not, but we're all worn out, you know. I think that Karen's on the right thing. I think, you know, if you can hold off until after the first of the year, let us see what happens in the next couple of months here and even though the money is there, like I said, just because it's appropriated doesn't mean it has to be spent.

Mr. Breitzke, Well I totally agree with you. I don't believe in putting a warm body in just because it's there. I want to make sure we have the right people who are going to serve us well.

Ms. Stroud, Just remember what went on tonight too. I don't know what the position is paying, it would be taken down to the lowest, so even if you, you know, latch onto somebody you might think would be interested, just remember that you can't bring them in at the same as your other one. It goes to the low. So you need to find out what that would be and go from there.

Mr. Breitzke, Yes, and I believe we, if we're not at the low, we're very close to the low.

Ms. Stroud, Well, you can find out what that position was factored at and then go from there.

Mr. Breitzke, We have a few months to worry about it.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, you do, but…

Mr. Breitzke, At the very least.

Ms. Stroud, But you need, if you're going to be start looking around I'm just telling you ahead of time. I don't want you to lose any more hair worrying about it when it comes December 29th and you want them January 1, so, you know.

Mr. Breitzke, Well, and on the other hand, I don't want it implied to somebody that the position will be available, so I think we'll just keep watch on it.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, we can live with that.

Mr. Breitzke, Because it will take some time for them to make the move. I'd like to work with their bosses.

Ms. Stroud, Okay.

Mr. Breitzke, So I appreciate it.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. Well thank you.

Ms. Martin, That was January 2004.

Mr. Breitzke, No.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, we're skipping years now.
Mr. Breitzke, Anything to help out.

Mrs. Knoblock, Thank you, Kevin.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you, Kevin.

Mr. Breitzke, Thank you.

2003 SALARY ORDINANCE

Ms. Stroud, A couple of things of business or one thing of business here, we do need to adopt our salary ordinance. You've got a copy of it. There weren't a lot of changes in here. I'll go through and read some of the changes, which like I said were not too many. Mine is highlighted. Obviously, it's the dates in the first couple of paragraphs there for the calendar year 2003, December 2003. Notice I also had Jan put in there, 'Suspended until further notice' and that has to do with the Personnel Committee, because we have not, you know, because of the situation. If you go over a couple of pages, Page 4, 'Not funded for 2003', longevity pay. I had her put that in there. If we reached a point down the road where we can go back to it at least it's in the salary ordinance, we just have to reactivate it. Notice also, again, it's just date changes. Wherever there was 2002, she put in 2003, I didn't find anymore. Then adopted on the other side, it would be adopted 10-1-02 on Page 6 at the bottom, then everything else remains the same. Does anyone have any comments or questions?

Mrs. Conover, I appreciate the detail you've put into the document.

Ms. Stroud, I need a motion to approve the salary ordinance.

Ms. Martin moved to approve the first reading of the 2003 Salary Ordinance and suspend the rules for second reading and approve the second reading of the 2003 Salary Ordinance. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

SECOND READING

Mr. Carmichael moved to approve second reading. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

PRESIDENT'S REPORT

Ms. Stroud, I just had a couple of things here. For those of you who maybe did not hear the final figures, and I asked the Auditor's department to get it. Our budget in August, which extended over into September, the final amount that we approved was $27,717,731; requested had been $28,211,066, for a difference of $493.35. That's when we made some changes in the budget the last night.

Mrs. Conover, $493,335.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, $493,335. Just so you have an idea. In February when we had to redo our budgets and so on and we redid and reduced and so on, at that time the budgets were $26,241,573. So I did my math to see what we adopted in August and it was a difference of $1,476,157, which is approximately the funding so that we could fund the insurance. So I just wanted you to have the figures so you had an idea, you know, where we were here.
Just a couple of other things that I had. I know Karen Martin and myself and Dave met with the Sheriff's Department. I would like to set up another meeting with the Sheriff's Department over the pension fund. I would like to see this done so that we can get this adopted at our December meeting. So I need to get together with the two of you so that we can set up some dates so that we can bring before the Council and get this settled.

Ms. Martin, Make sure his attorney is there this time.

Ms. Stroud, That's my other request; that their attorney be there and…

Mr. Hollenbeck, Or even better than that, somebody to represent the…

Ms. Stroud, I want the Merit Board, I want a rep from the Merit Board. I'm going to give directions to…

Ms. Martin, I think the Merit Board attorney I don't compare it for personnel.

Ms. Stroud, I'm going to ask Jan to call over and set that up so that they are there. The other thing, just remember that we do meet the 29th, then our December meeting, we don't meet in November with Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is late this year. It's like the 28th and we meet three days later after Thanksgiving, that Tuesday, which is December 3rd.
The other thing is, I'm extending an invitation to any of you. I'm going on October 7th, which is a Monday at 8:00 to the Tourism Board, up in the Chesterton area, there's going to be a meeting and some of them have been meeting between the venues. The Memorial Opera House, the Expo Center, the Historical Museum and the Tourism Board, they are trying to come together and work things through and see what things they can work together on and try and consolidate some of the stuff. They wanted me, I committed to go, but anybody else is welcome to go. It's at 8:30 or 8:00, October 7th, Monday at 8:00 in the morning. Notice I stressed in the morning that I do not do very well. This is a.m. here.
I think, I don't think there was anything else that I needed to bring up as far as what I had. Does anybody else have anything that they would like to say before I get to the attorney's report here? That is the last thing we have to do. We put him at the end tonight. Does anybody else have anything?

Ms. Balcerak, Bill, wait.

Mr. Carmichael, What have you got?

Ms. Stroud, We have the attorney's report.

Mr. Carmichael, I thought you just said does anybody else have anything to say. You didn't stand up.

Ms. Stroud, Before we get to the attorney's report.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh David, recognize David down there.

Ms. Stroud, I guess, Dave, it's been passed to you so it's up to you. I didn't mean to get out of hand here.

ATTORNEY'S REPORT

Mr. Hollenbeck, I don't necessarily have good news.

Mr. Carmichael, Make it short.

Mr. Hollenbeck, You probably won't like this. The focus of my comments will again be on the cash flow situation.

Ms. Stroud, I don't like that if.

Mr. Hollenbeck, We have $706,000 in the general fund as we speak. You've approved the transfer of $900,000, and with the anticipated expenditures in the general fund through this month, the auditor believes we can pay our bills with that 1.6 million. But come your meeting on October 29th, you're going to find yourself in the precarious position that the cash flow statement has predicted for ten months, and that's out of money.
The cash flow statement projects the need, and I'm just warning you, at your October 29th meeting it's anticipatable that you will have to authorize accessing the bridge fund again to the tune of 1.25 million dollars is what's projected in the cash flow statement in order to get through November. Then we are going to have to decide at the October 29th meeting, and hopefully the auditor and I can meet and have a recommendation for you how much of the third installment of the bailout loan that we're going to need to access.
I've had conversations with the State Budget Agency personnel, and they are anticipating that the last meeting of the State Board of Finance for the year will be the third Monday of November. We're technically eligible for the third installment on November 11th when Bethlehem doesn't pay their taxes on November 10th. So we're going to have to be quick on our feet. We're going to have to hopefully make a, have you make a decision at your October 29th meeting as to what you want to authorize by way of that third installment. We'll have to package that together and get it downstate immediately so it can be on the agenda for that meeting of the State Board of Finance to get the money, because we are going to need it in December in order to pay these bills.
The other thing we may have to consider October 29th is to what extent we're going to have to access any additional monies from the tax warrants. As you'll remember, you authorized $10,000,000 of tax warrants. We used $5,000,000 of that to pay off the other tax warrants that we had done in January, and we've accessed, I believe, $750,000 of that. So there's still $4,250,000 available there, hopefully, money that we won't have to access in its entirety. But again, we spend about $2,000,000 a month even at the constrained level of the budget. So that's the precarious position we find ourselves in.
The other thing that's very predictable is that at your December meeting, you're going to need to authorize the issuance of tax anticipation warrants for January. At this point, my best estimate of that is in the vicinity of $7,000,000 to $8,000,000 in order to have some cash, because your carryover balance is going to be depleted. Even with no additional appropriations it was going to be depleted, and you've made what, $65,000 worth of appropriations--additional appropriations--tonight and we know we've got the health insurance to deal with. The commissioners will be back with the inability to pay the bills in the health insurance, and we're going to have to address that. That's the bad news.
The good news on the cash flow is that by paying off the Department of Commerce loan and converting that into the bailout loan, we will not have a Department of Commerce loan payment due in December now, which is built into the cash flow statement. So that will give us some freeboard to hopefully have the cash to take care of the additional appropriations that you've approved and have at this point, my best estimate in the area, maybe we've increased the carryover from $60,000 to close to $300,000 that could be carried over. But again, when you spend $2,000,000 a month, carrying over $300,000 doesn't make it through your first payroll payment in January.
So it's certainly anticipatable that we will be back in January and February of next year in basically the same precarious position that we find ourselves in this year. The unknown factor is what Bethlehem Steel will do on May 10th of next year. If they remain in Chapter 11, they theoretically would owe their property taxes just as if they were operating without the benefit of bankruptcy. Whether that will be case, they don't know, let alone us, whether they will be able to sustain themselves in Chapter 11. If they go to Chapter 7 then they don't owe us anything under the bankruptcy law.
You know, at this juncture that's the clearest crystal ball I think that we can give you as to where we are financially. I guess I would also emphasize the freeboard that develops from not paying off the Department of Commerce is an artificial one, because you've simply converted short-term debt to long-term debt, and you've got to pay back the bailout bill over the next ten years. Bill.

Mr. Carmichael, David, have the other units of government indicated their need for additional funds along with our third installment?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Yes, I believe the Duneland Schools have already made application for it, and it's sitting down there waiting to be, as soon as November 10th, they'll be on the meeting…

Mr. Carmichael, The same agenda?

Mr. Hollenbeck, The same meeting we will be on.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I believe the Westchester Library people have decided not to borrow anymore. As you know, they closed down their operation half the day now. They don't open until noon and they laid off 40 people.

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I believe they are going to continue to do that in hopes that Bethlehem will pay their taxes next year.

Ms. Stroud, So you still have to get the paperwork together for the third installment?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Yes, we will be…

Ms. Stroud, Which has got to get down there…

Mr. Hollenbeck, Immediately after the 29th.

Ms. Stroud, ASAP.
Mr. Hollenbeck, We will have to make the decision, you will have to make the decision on the 29th of October at your meeting as to how much of third installment. The third installment of course will not be a net. It will be gross, because there's nothing taken out.

Ms. Stroud, Let me ask you this. We can just take a partial part of that and not take all of it from the State?

Mr. Hollenbeck, You can take…

Ms. Stroud, Or we can take all of it?

Mr. Hollenbeck, You can take none of it, you can take all of it, whatever you applied for is what they will consider, up to 1.8 million dollars, which is the full installment.

Ms. Stroud, Okay.

Mr. Hollenbeck, And that again will be a function of where we find ourselves financially on October 31st, which will be close to the end of this month.

Ms. Stroud, Okay.

Mr. Hollenbeck, It's pretty predictable where we will be, and that's with a cash balance of virtually nothing.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, do you have anything else?

Mr. Hollenbeck, I do not.

Ms. Stroud, Does anyone have any questions or anything that they would like to discuss? Anyone out in the audience? We've been deserted. Meeting adjourned, a motion to adjourn.

Mr. Carmichael, Stand to recess.

There being no further business, meeting adjourned.

PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL
PORTER COUNTY, INDIANA

William Carmichael
Karen Conover
Carole Knoblock
Karen Martin
Barbara Stroud
Leon West

Attest: Sandra Vuko, Auditor