PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL
April 16, 2002

The Porter County Council met on April 16, 2002, at 7:00 p.m., in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana - Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana.

Members present were Carole Knoblock, Karen Martin, John Ruge, Leon West, President Barbara Stroud, and William Carmichael and Karen Conover, who were not present at roll call. Also present was Attorney David Hollenbeck, Auditor Sandra Vuko, Jamie Dziabo and Jan Balcerak.

Ms. Stroud, You have received your minutes for the March 19th meeting. Are there any additions or corrections to be made? Hearing none, I need a motion to approve the minutes.

Mrs. Knoblock, I just read them tonight. Could we do this next month? I mean I just got them tonight. I'm sorry, I didn't just read them.

Ms. Martin, Same here.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, we'll continue them until the next meeting. I had mine, but I didn't realize you didn't have yours.

Ms. Martin moved to table the approval of the March 19, 2002 minutes. Mr. West seconded, motion carried.

FIRST READING

Mrs. Vuko read the Notice to Taxpayers.

At this point, Mr. Carmichael and Mrs. Conover joined the meeting.

CORONER
144 Form

Third Deputy to $50/day on call and $100/response

Ms. Stroud, First on the agenda is the Coroner. Good evening. Would you like to explain to the members what you are trying to do here?

Roger Kleist, Instead of paying out the Third Deputy position as a salary type where the amount of money is divided by 52 pays, I would like to create a pay schedule that is paid per day on call and then per response.
The hope here is to eventually try to get more deputies down the line. I mean, I know the finances and all of that, but down the line, years down the line. It's easier to be able to have, if you take one sum of money and pay that sum out per call and per response, then you can have additional deputies and schedule them as you need them throughout the month.

Ms. Stroud, I think the question is, do you already have this money in your budget?

Mr. Kleist, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, It's not an additional amount that anybody has to be given? The money is already there.

Mr. Kleist, That's correct.

Ms. Stroud, But instead of having someone full-time, you want to pay per day, per call?

Mr. Kleist, Correct.

Mr. Ruge, How many times is the third person on call? I mean, is it every day? It's not every day?

Mr. Kleist, Did you see the handout, John? If you look at the second page of that handout, there's an example of the on call for the month.
Mr. Ruge, I looked at the front page, but I didn't look at the second page.

Mr. Kleist, See, in my position…

Mr. Ruge, It's not every day then?

Mr. Kleist, Correct. In my position as a paramedic I work 24 hours on duty and 48 hours off. So during my 24 hours on duty, occasionally I can handle a phone call, but I certainly can't respond to a coroner's call and that's when the deputies cover, is during that time. So we prepared a schedule and sent it to the county dispatch center, then when they have a need for the coroner they call whoever is on call for that day.

Ms. Stroud, Are there any questions?

Mr. West, Is that going to be enough money?

Mr. Kleist, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, This will take a roll call vote, but before the roll call we need a motion.

Mrs. Knoblock moved to amend the 144 Form as submitted by the Coroner. Mr. West seconded, motion carried unanimously.

COMMISSIONERS 01.30
Transfer

$175 from account 2110 Office Supplies into account 2410 Medical & Dental
$1,065 from account 3973 Change of Venue into account 3750 Other Rentals.

Ms. Stroud, Next on the agenda there are transfers that the commissioners want to make.

Com. John Evans, We have two transfers. The first is $175 to Medical and that's to pay for the balance of the TB testing for the remainder of the year. I think we have 35 individuals that have to be tested at $5 a piece and we return that money back to the Health Department.
The second is for $1,065 to Rentals and that is to pay for the rental expense of the Expo Center for the landfill proceedings. Part of the deal we made with Lonnie Steele when we had him take over various aspects of his own budget was that he needed to try to recover as much cost as he could for every use of the Expo as possible. This is the outside use that wasn't compensated for under any other terms.
We subsequently discussed the possibility in the future of having those people that make the request foot the bill in the cases where we have to go outside of our normal facilities to accommodate their crowds.

Mrs. Knoblock, That wasn't done before the meeting then. Right?

Com. Evans, No, it was not.

Mr. West, How did he come up with that number?

Com. Evans, Which number?

Mr. West, The 1,065.

Com. Evans, I've got it written right here.

Mr. West, I know you've got it written there, but how did he come up with it?

Com. Evans, Its based on what he wasn't able to fund out of his own budget or cover and his expenses that were incurred in the cost of the two different meetings out there. By the way, both of those meeting were excellently held. The BZA deserves a big round of applause as does the Expo staff in the manner they conducted the building.

Ms. Stroud, So these are both transfers.

Mr. Carmichael, John, what arrangements have been made to have the petitioner pay for the cost?

Com. Evans, We need to pass a resolution as I understand it or do an ordinance and do it for the future. We can't make it retroactive. So we need to look at that and decide which way we need to go with it. It needs to be an upfront-type situation so that in the future if somebody makes a request, we know that we are not going to be able to accommodate them. They would meet in this same room as you do and as we do and if the crowd is going to be bigger than that it has to be a rental facility and we need to advise them of the expense.

Mr. Carmichael, It seems a little unusual for us to be charging ourselves.

Com. Evans, Well, but that was part of the agreement we made in trying to make everybody be self-sufficient in that there were charges in his budget that we were picking up that he is now picking up that we agreed to that. In the past, it would have been just use the facility and there would be no charge. Now he has to make sure he covers his costs and that's what this is.

Ms. Stroud, So this was for two meetings?

Com. Evans, This was two meetings for the landfill hearings.

Mr. Carmichael, That doesn't apply to everyone though. There are some groups who still use for no cost.

Com. Evans, Right. Whenever he can and he's always been very gracious in trying to accommodate every one he can, but once we made him start paying the things he had never paid before, he said, 'Wait a minute, there are things we need to look at as far as the use.'

Ms. Stroud, Since you brought it up, are the commissioners looking at passing a resolution?

Com. Evans, We are studying it, yes.

Ms. Stroud, So that in the future when various groups want to use the Expo Center they will know?

Com. Evans, Well, there's always the rental charges and those are already coordinated now. But these are special exceptions you might say, when we, the County or county government needs to use the facility that we are not compensating him for different items that we did in the past that are now becoming a problem when we use the facility.

Ms. Martin, I think in this instance with reference to the landfill that falls under the jurisdiction of the planning commission, as of right now they are looking at a fee schedule to incorporate it so that there are no questions as to any type of preferential treatment on behalf of any individual. So it's going to be inclusive of the fee schedule, which would be adopted by the planning commission on these issues.

Com. Evans, Right, and it is a sticky wiggit when you look at it that way because how do you decide whose big enough to use that facility and whose not, who arbitrarily makes that decision, so.

Ms. Stroud, These are transfers, I don't think we need to do them separately. I think we can do them together.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds as submitted by the Commissioners. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried on the following vote:

Carmichael-NoConover-Yes
Knoblock-YesMartin-Yes
Ruge-YesStroud-Yes
West-Yes

Com. Evans, I have one other thing that is not on your agenda, but. According to Indiana Code, this is another number I wrote down, Leon, 36-1-11-3, the county commissioners as your executive body are required to ask permission from you the financial body to sell property that totals over $50,000.
We have in the works probably three properties that fall under that category so I'd like to ask your permission to do that on your behalf and our behalf. Those properties are the county jail, the County Home and a piece of property adjacent to the county facility up north in Portage.
Now we are not saying that we are going to sell them all. We'd like to see what materializes, but we'd like to be able to have this in place so that if the sales do proceed then we can go ahead with due haste.

Ms. Martin, I had a question with reference to this because we've not sold properties in the recent. But in the past we have sold property and it was an understanding that the funds from that property would be put in the general fund, but at the last minute the commissioners created an ordinance to put it in a separate fund, which would not be appropriated by the Council and I have a problem with that.
In all actuality, due to the financial constraints and the problems that we have right now, any monies that come from sales of property should be put in the general fund to help us out and not to be set aside for the commissioners to use as they see fit, with reference to that since we do cover most of the cost with reference to power and other things under the general fund. I would suggest that we take that in consideration and that the Council has to appropriate the funds that are accumulated from those sales.

Ms. Martin moved to allow the Commissioners to sell the properties provided they deposit the money in the general fund or should the money be deposited in a special fund it has to be appropriated by the Council. Mr. Carmichael seconded.

Ms. Stroud, Any other discussion on it?

Com. Evans, The use of the funds, like you said, we've never done this either, so I guess it's…

Ms. Martin, Well the last piece of property that I remember selling was on Calumet when Porter Memorial bought that.

Ms. Stroud, The Annex.

Ms. Martin, The Annex and the problem was that it was agreed during the meeting that the commissioners would put that in the general fund, then they put it in a special fund--I understand the maintenance aspect of it--and it was used for North County. But, in all actuality that's what the CCD fund should be used for, the maintenance purpose of the buildings.
It concerned me because then they set it up as an ordinance to where the Council did not appropriate the money. When we don't appropriate the money it seems to me that you by-pass us and we are not inclusive of the funding. Since we are constantly blamed for the funding aspect I think we should have some approval process here.

Com. Evans, I understand. I can't of course speak for my two other commissioners, but.

Mr. Carmichael, And if there's a cost incurred we get the bill.

Ms. Martin, That's what happens.

Ms. Stroud, Exactly.

Com. Evans, But I know that we are in need of funding for the buildings also. We probably really need to seriously take a look at the North County Complex. That facility, I don't believe, is being used in the way it was intended. Probably the best thing up there would be to build a separate facility for the courts and let that building be used the way it was intended. The way it is right now, until the Health Department pulled out because funding problems, you had small children going in for shots that would be sitting directly across from somebody waiting for their first hearing in court who was in shackles and chains. That's not conducive to anything.

Mr. Carmichael, That building, John, was designed for small claims courts. That's what it was originally designed for, which was compatible with the other uses.

Com. Evans, I think it would work well in an annex to what is done in this building in many offices if they all had space available to them. I'd like to see the Health Department go back up there. I'd like to see the Treasurer back up there. I'd like to see those people be afforded the same service they are afforded in this building, but it can't happen right now and I don't think it should happen in the way it has in the past.

Ms. Stroud, We have a motion on the floor that's been seconded.

Mr. West, What's the motion?

Ms. Martin, The motion is to allow them to sell it as long as they put that money in the general fund or if they put it in a special fund it has to be appropriated by this Council.

Mrs. Knoblock, Is that law?

Ms. Martin, No. What the situation is, the commissioners always create their own ordinances with their own funds, then we don't appropriate the money so we don't know where it goes.

Ms. Stroud, We don't know where it goes. We have no say.

Ms. Martin, The problem with that is, we have all these funds out there that we never see.

Mr. West, It still goes into a special fund, right? Then they could ask for it to be re-appropriated?

Ms. Martin, To be appropriated, not re-appropriated.

Mr. West, Right, out of that fund.

Ms. Martin, The question is, it could be just a line item--sale of property. It doesn't have to be a special fund, per se, just like we do some of that other income, miscellaneous income. My only concern there is the fact that we have all these funds out there that we never see where the money goes. We have the cable franchise fee. We had the sale of the Annex. We have these funds out there that the Council has no idea where the monies are going. It concerns me because of the fact, when we are trying to put the picture together and when we're trying to look at everything that's going on financially within the County, half or one-quarter of the pie is out there and we have no idea what's being done with the funds.

Com. Evans, Well the franchise fees are always available for your inspection and they are always used for roads.

Ms. Martin, And I understand that, but it's the same thing with the 911 surcharge. We created the surcharge but we don't even go over the budget, so that's a concern.

Com. Evans, That's exactly it, the shoes are on the other foot. You still have the authority to raise their fund, we have the authority to say how that money is spent.

Ms. Martin, But I think the bottom line is, both people working together. That is my concern.

Com. Evans, Exactly.

Ms. Martin, Because what's happening is, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and everybody is going off on their own direction. We as a county cannot work as a unified government.

Com. Evans, I'm not trying to be adversarial at all. I mean, we want to work with you too, otherwise we wouldn't give you the $2,000,000 bridge fund every time.

Ms. Martin, Well I just don't want to happen what happened previously, that's all.

Mrs. Knoblock, Don't you think we should discuss this with all the commissioners than with just John?

Com. Evans, Yes, I can't speak for them. I can't sit here and promise you that we are not going to.

Ms. Stroud, I talked to Dave this morning.
Mr. Carmichael, Well under this motion, John, you can't sell the buildings unless they agree to it--the motion.

Ms. Stroud, Right.

Mr. Carmichael, There's no funding. There's no permission granted without the caveat. Okay?

Com. Evans, My job is just to get you to give us permission.

Mr. Carmichael, We know you're on the spot.

Com. Evans, But we will take up the funding with you and…

Mr. Carmichael, John, we had this same issue with revenue sharing years ago. It was totally within the commissioners' purview to spend revenue sharing as they saw fit, but we brought every request to the county council. If you look back through the minutes you'll see that the county council was informed at their regular general meeting of the expenditure that was being requested. That was done as a matter of courtesy because it's a two-way street, as she mentioned.

Ms. Stroud, The motion has been made and seconded.

Ms. Martin, I guess, how do we want to, what Carole said. I mean, I agree with Bill. I think it puts John in a bad spot though, but on the other side…

Ms. Stroud, They can't go on with anything unless they get some permission from us. I talked to Dave Burrus this morning.

Com. Evans, And I don't know, I think maybe you should ask your attorney. I don't know if you can put that caveat on that.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I don't see any reason why they can't, John. I think my response to that would be that if your two fellow commissioners don't like it, they can come back and say, 'Please amend your motion because you tied our hands' or 'We do have plans to put it in these funds.'

Com. Evans, Actually, I don't think its that involved, because as you said, if we pass an ordinance it supersedes whatever action you take here. I mean…

Mr. Hollenbeck, No, I…

Ms. Stroud, No.

Ms. Martin, No, it doesn't.

Com. Evans, We have to act in good faith at some point.

Mr. Hollenbeck, To quote a county commissioner, I don't want to be adversarial, John. But what I'm hearing them say is that they are, statutorily, they are obligated to approve the sale. What they are saying is that they will fulfill that statutory obligation by approving the sale provided that the proceeds received by the County from that sale, one of two things will happen. It either gets deposited in the general fund or if its deposited in one of your funds, you return here for their approval of the appropriation. That's what I'm hearing them say.

Com. Evans, Yes, I said I don't have any problem with that, but I can't speak for the other two commissioners.

Mrs. Knoblock, Barb, did you say you talked Dave?

Ms. Stroud, Yes, he asked me. I didn't know John was going to bring it up. He asked me if there wasn't someone here if I would bring it up.

Mrs. Knoblock, What was his comment?

Ms. Martin, Well I don't think he was aware of it because…

Ms. Stroud, This came up now. He's not aware of this.

Com. Evans, Truthfully, we are more concerned with selling the buildings than what's going to happen with the money. I don't think it's going to be that large of an amount.

Ms. Stroud, No, but they have to come before us because the appraised value is over $50,000. They can't just go out and sell them without our approval. What Karen is saying is, if they are sold then we want to have a little say over how the money is appropriated in the future. That is what we are saying.

Mr. West, I think if Larry and Dave disagree, then they can come back and we can rearrange it. I'll call for the question.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.

Motion carried unanimously.

HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE 94
Transfer

$250 from account 2250 Other Supplies into account 3310 Printing other than Office Supplies

Ms. Stroud, You have a transfer of $250 to Printing other than Office Supplies. Is that correct?

Russell Shirley, Correct. We just had to print certificates for all the firefighters and that wasn't included in our budget last year.

Ms. Martin, And its not the general fund.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for transfer of funds as submitted by the Hazardous Substance Fund. Mrs. Knoblock seconded, motion carried unanimously.

HEALTH MAINTENANCE 14
Additional Appropriation

$20,000 into account 1120 Hourly-Nursing
$20,000 into account 2410 Medical Supplies

Ms. Stroud, What do you have for us this evening, Keith?

Keith Letta, The Local Health Maintenance has some carryover from 2001 and we'd like to put that into Hourly and Medical Supplies. One of the cuts I made as part of our 10% was our hourly budget for part-time nursing and secretarial. So we would like to do this additional to be able to maintain our part-time nursing services, what we have left of it anyway, which is in Portage, Hebron, Kouts and Chesterton.

Mr. Carmichael, Where did you get the money?

Mr. Letta, This is carryover from our local health maintenance budget from 2001.

Mr. Carmichael, And that comes from where?

Mr. Letta, That comes from the State.

Mr. Carmichael, The State of Indiana?

Mr. Letta, Yes. This is the local health maintenance.

Mr. Carmichael moved to grant the request for additional appropriations as submitted by Health Maintenance. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, I have a couple of questions for you before you leave. All that we are reading, at this point in time, has the State cut more of your funding like from the tobacco fund and so on?
Mr. Letta, They haven't yet. They have made some changes. They have diverted some of that money. Dave, what did you say thing morning?

Mr. Hollenbeck, $60,000,000.

Mr. Letta, $60,000,000 to a number of?

Mr. Hollenbeck, To the state general fund.

Mr. Letta, From a number of different health-based allocations to the state general fund. They have not as of yet done anything to the actual county health department monies, but that is…

Mr. Hollenbeck, But that may have already…

Mr. Letta, Happened today.

Mr. Hollenbeck, The Governor had announced the second round of cuts for today and we have been led to believe that he will again access the tobacco settlement monies to help with the general fund problems. So the latest communication we had from the Indiana Health, County Health Association, was that in all probability we would see some of the tobacco monies gone as of today.

Ms. Stroud, I knew that was in the wind. I just wondered if they had contacted them.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Not to digress more, but another example of what's happening is that the only way the Health Department can do the immunization program is that the State Board of Health buys the vaccine and provides it to the County for free. That's about how much, about $70,000 worth of vaccines every year. That's one of the programs that the Governor has on the chopping block to balance the state budget. If that goes, the Health Department doesn't have $70,000 to buy vaccines so the vaccination program goes.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you. Even though its not good news, I just wanted to find out for informational purposes.

HIGHWAY 02
Additional Appropriation

$12,000 into account 3620 Garage & Service Bldgs

Ms. Stroud, You want an additional of $12,000 to Garage & Bldgs. Just so everybody understands this is not general fund money. Is there anything you'd like to say, Jack?

Jack Jarnecke, This is for the Highway 2 garage. We've got one bay, where the roof is so bad that you need an umbrella when it rains. The office roof does need to be recoated. We are getting quotes now but I don't have them in yet.

Ms. Martin, So you feel it will fall within this $12,000?

Mr. Jarnecke, I've got money available yet, we were over budget at the first of the year. Between the two of them I hope to have enough to do it.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for additional appropriations as submitted by Highway 02. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

HIGHWAY CUM-BRIDGE 25
Additional Appropriation

$9,656.04 into account 9411 Jackson Twp-Material, Labor & Equipment
$37,899.84 into account 9412 Morgan Twp-Material, Labor & Equipment
$10,103.96 into account 9409 Washington Twp-Material, Labor & Equipment
$2,610.24 into account 9410 Washington/Jackson Twp-Material, Labor & Equipment
$8,727.78 into account 9332 Pleasant Twp-Material, Labor & Equipment
$9,052.12 into account 9339 Washington Twp-Material, Labor & Equipment
$24,010.56 into account 9413 Jackson Twp-Material, Labor & Equipment

Request held until May meeting

HIGHWAY LRS 26
Additional Appropriation

$195,000 into account 3950 Contractual Services for District 1, District 2 & District 3

Mr. Jarnecke, I'm asking for a total of $195,000 to be split between the three commissioners' districts. When my budget was made up last year there was not enough money at that time to put this in the budget. This will be coming out of the carryover from the end of the year. This will be used for contractual services, such as striping and so forth.

Ms. Martin moved to grant the request for additional appropriations as submitted by Highway LRS. Mr. Carmichael seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mrs. Knoblock, Could I make a comment? When they say for contractual work, could we have it listed?

Ms. Stroud, This is not general fund money, so…

Mrs. Knoblock, I know, but it would be nice to know what they are doing.

Ms. Stroud, What he's doing with the contractual?

Mrs. Knoblock, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, I'm sorry.

EARLY INTERVENTION SERVICES PLAN

Ms. Stroud, Next is the Early Intervention Plan. Is there anyone here to represent that? I saw Judge Harper, she's on her way to Indianapolis so that's why she's not here.

Jon Rutkowski, Judge Harper is not here and she asked me if I'd come tonight to request the Council's approval of the 2002 Early Intervention Plan. My understanding is that she's provided copies to the Council.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, we have copies of it.

Ms. Martin, So you don't want us to put you on the spot.

Mr. Rutkowski, Well you can.

Ms. Stroud, In all fairness to John, I sat in on the meeting that you had on March 15th where you went through the various steps and so on.

Mr. Rutkowski, If there are any questions I could try to answer them for you.

Ms. Stroud, Does anyone have any questions that they would like to ask Jon? These are all the services that are provided.

Mr. Rutkowski, Correct.

Ms. Stroud, Anybody have any questions? You need our approval for your program. Is that what you want?

Mr. Rutkowski, The approval of the plan as its written.

Ms. Martin moved to approve the Early Intervention Services Plan as submitted. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you, Jon, for all your hard work. I know a lot of work goes into this. I know Judge Harper puts a lot of time in on this.

Mr. Rutkowski, Thank you.

PRESIDENT'S REPORT

Ms. Stroud, I have a couple of things that I wanted to go over. One is dealing with the status as far as the report on the status of the local government study. I'm going to pass out a paper that lists the people that were turned in.
Just to refresh your memory, Bill Carmichael, Karen Conover, Dave Hollenbeck and myself met with the chambers. This lists the names of the people that showed interest and how it came about as far as the vision.
If you'll notice as you are reading through this, the process committee, which is what is shown on the front page, then on the next page are names of people who would like serve on subcommittees that will come under this process committee. I know Deb is here and any of the other ones, would you like to come up front in case there are any questions.
In going through this, notice that they have 14 people on the process committee, the committee that would process all the information. After the subcommittees are established, you'll notice the breakdown. We have two county government representatives. John Evans has agreed to serve on the part of the commissioners. The county council does get a representative, if one of you would like to serve on this. Dave has been our representative so far. There are three town/city representatives. As you'll see, the third one has not been appointed to that position. The three business representatives, then going on down, one agricultural developer and then four citizen representatives. On the next page you have a list of the volunteers. People who turned in interest letters that would like to serve on the various committees. We mailed out a letter. Deb, do you want to say anything?

Deb Butterfield, Actually, John is going to be our spokesperson.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, John.

Mrs. Knoblock, Barb, before you get going I have something to say. Could I speak first?

Ms. Stroud, We have a council member that would to say something first.

Mrs. Knoblock, I'm going to read this because I have too many comments that I need to say. I spoke with Barb Stroud last night on the phone and I would like to introduce a motion.

Mrs. Knoblock moved postpone the appointment of the committee until the May meeting to give the elected officials time to review the structure and proposed appointees.

Mrs. Knoblock, I make this motion for the following reasons and these are some of my reasons. At least some of the members of the Council, like myself, were presented with the structure of the committee and the proposed names of the 14 committee members at tonight's board meeting. This is certainly not enough time for the Council to evaluate either the proposed framework of the committees or the individuals whose names I learned for the first time tonight.
There is really no hurry for the findings and the recommendation of this group as the bailout money has provided us with our immediate needs, to say the least. There are many questions that I have that will take time to answer regarding the framework in such an advisory group. Questions such as, why isn't there a subcommittee addressing issues of government waste and inefficiencies directly?
Over the last five years our county hired 133 new employees that have raised the cost of Porter County government to over $4,000,000. That is one of the reasons why we are broke. There is a proposed subcommittee to study even education, but not one to address government inefficiencies and waste. It just doesn't make sense and it makes us look like we already have our minds made up.
Another question that I would ask is, why are we proposing, in essence, that six of the 14 members of the committee be in government employees? I thought this was a citizens' advisory committee. We already have a government committee which is responsible for funding issues and that's us. In considering our record of fiscal management, if anything, we should consider having a permanent citizens' advisory board to help the government employees make decisions and not the other way around.
Since no one bothered to ask me in advance, one more question I would pose is whether even a single one of the recommended appointments in an advocate for government efficiency? I don't know if anybody wants to answer that or not. Isn't this what the committee is all about?
Most recently the City of Valpo appointed a committee; a water park advocate said an advisory group, then returned and recommended a water park that the community at large rejected. I think we should take a lesson from that. Then we are appointing a committee, who hopes would be inclined to tell us that we need a $30,000,000 tax increase.
So again, my motion is to postpone the appointment of the committee until elected officials have the time to review the structure and proposed appointees. That is my motion.

Mr. West seconded.

Ms. Stroud, A motion has been made and seconded to table this.

Ms. Martin, I think it's only to the next meeting, correct, so you can review these people? Is that what you are saying? You'd like to interview these people and talk to them?

Mrs. Knoblock, Yes. Right, because we didn't get the list until tonight.

Ms. Stroud, I agree that you didn't get the list until tonight, because it was just put together.

Mrs. Knoblock, Who appointed these people?

Ms. Stroud, These are the people who sent their names in.

Mrs. Knoblock, I know, but the 14?

Mr. West, What about these, what are they going to do?

Ms. Stroud, They are going to be on subcommittees. If you go over here, the different subcommittees that are over on this side.

Mrs. Knoblock, But who appointed the 14?

Ms. Stroud, That came from the people who were willing to serve with the chamber and the league. Since the motion has been made and seconded, this is the time to discuss it. I was hoping that we all would have open mind through this whole process and not make any decisions. It's going to be a long process to begin with. We are and we are not under a time frame, number one. Number two, I don't know how many of you are familiar with interim study groups. Are you familiar with interim study groups?

Mrs. Knoblock, No.

Ms. Stroud, They are groups that are formed by political units or governmental units throughout the state when they have issues, to get input from citizens and that's taken back whether or not the Legislature or the Governor abides by what those recommendations are. If you build a school you have the same kind of thing. You have all kinds of study groups that bring information back.

Mrs. Knoblock, I know, but there's seven people on the council, and I, myself, did not have the chance to appoint anybody of the 14.

Ms. Stroud, I agree with you, but I think some of the statements in your statement as far as with the county option income tax, we could as a county council pass the county option income tax until the sheep come home--or the cows, however you want to say it--but we only represent 41% of the population. So if you don't have another entity that puts us over 50%, it's not going to fly anyway. That's the way it is.

Ms. Martin, With Barb's remark about--and I'm just speaking from experience--groups, trust me, it took six years for the planning commission to pass the comp plan. We went through two processes. We had a group study. We had individuals working on the initial. We worked with Ball State. Then we went through another process because of the input needed.
I agree with Carole about not getting this until the last minute and not having the time to review it. She has some questions and I understand that. So I guess from one side of the coin I don't think 30 days of holding it is going to matter. On the other side of the coin, I don't think doing it now is going to matter. I guess my question is, Carole, what would make you feel comfortable? What is your process of reviewing this?

Mrs. Knoblock, Like I said, I didn't get this until tonight. I just want to go home and look it over. I feel like we are being treated like four-year olds.

Ms. Stroud, Why?
Mrs. Knoblock, Let me finish.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, I'm sorry.

Mrs. Knoblock, We are seven elected officials and we've got somebody coming in telling us what to do. Then you're getting other government officials to come in and tell the other government officials what to do.

Ms. Stroud, I don't think anybody is telling us what to do. I think the whole idea was to go out and seek people in the community that really could give us some advice as to maybe what direction we need to go. That doesn't mean we have to follow the final recommendation. We have the final say. When this was discussed at the February 26th meeting--that whole thing was discussed--and when it was decided that we needed representation to meet with the chambers of commerce, you didn't mention one word about being…

Mrs. Knoblock, No, you just said we were going to talk it over. You didn't say we were going to appoint and it was just a discussion meeting. That's what you told us it was going to be. I still didn't hear who appointed the 14.

Ms. Stroud, The chamber people. Those names all went to them. Karen.

Mrs. Conover, I guess I just wanted to say, I don't believe that this group that's been appointed nor the people sitting up here have any preconceived notions on what you're going to find and what your findings are. I believe the purpose of this is to facilitate and study county government as we know it. We were trying to obtain all walks of life--apolitical people that are not involved with this party or that, or this special interest or that--just to study government.
It is my understanding--this list here--these people would like to serve. We are all hopefully going to be on working groups and incorporate that with the cities and the towns to just gather information, hold public forums and study county government. What we want it to look like and how can we increase our services, what needs to be decreased. Just kind of revamping it, as we work together. I mean, who supports us, who puts us in this office, the people out here.
I don't have any problem with getting this going and I think we're probably a little late. We've had study committees. I know the City of Valparaiso does it a lot. I think we all have input and we all have things to say. I certainly would not have wanted to be a part of this if there was some preconceived notion that we were going to do this or that or another. I think we're just trying to get this committee off the ground so we can get going. I certainly plan on being a big part of the study group.

Ms. Stroud, Does anybody else have anything they would like to say?

Mr. Carmichael, All of the meetings are open to the public anyway, right?

John Leander, Absolutely.

Mr. Carmichael, I'd go if I could have my say so.

Deb Butterfield, We hope you will.

Mr. Leander, And there's nothing to say that we can't have an additional working group to study whatever you would like. We came up with the six or seven. That's just a basic list. It is open to anybody.

Mr. Carmichael, Let me tell you where I am on this situation. I was sitting there thinking about it last night and I jotted down a few notes. There have been many straight-thinking individuals who have offered constructive suggestions. Some by letters to the editor recently and some by phone calls to me personally.
I read a lot of rhetoric recently from armchair generals as well as a speaker at a candidates' night where the suggestion was made to just say no. I asked each of these critics to be specific as to which budget items are we to say no to. Do we say no to the courts, to the jail, to the prosecutor, to the public defender, the ambulance service, health department, highway department? I would like them to be specific as to which ones they would advise to be cut to equal approximately $4,000,000. That is the money we are going to be short in the county budget.
Many people in Porter County have responded to this cash-flow crisis by paying their taxes early. They are the solid citizens who are putting their shoulders to the wheel and thankfully they are in the majority of the citizens in this county.
I commend the employees of Porter County for doing their part while we try to solve this shortfall. Our oath is to provide for the health, safety and welfare of the citizens of this county and I intend to take whatever steps are necessary to do just that.

Ms. Stroud, We have a motion on the floor. Could you please re-read the motion, please.

Ms. Martin, I think we are still on discussion.

Ms. Stroud, I'm sorry.

Ms. Martin, It hasn't been called for the question.

Ms. Stroud, I got ahead of myself.

Ms. Martin, That's okay. Leon wants to talk to you, so.

Ms. Stroud, Okay. Leon.

Mr. West, You know public safety is important to everybody and I agree with that. But I'd like to go on record tonight as being opposed to the selection process utilized in the formation of this purported citizens committee to study the funding options available to the Porter County Council. What started out as an opportunity for ordinary citizens and taxpayers of Porter County to have real input in solutions to our fiscal crisis has turned out to be nothing more than a handful of special interest groups that were chosen to give us a report advocating a county income tax.
Tonight I feel that placing the question of a county option income tax in the hands of the chambers of commerce and League of Women Voters is simply a fraud on the voters and taxpayers of Porter County. A number of high-profile people involved in these organizations are already publicly committed to the adoption of the income tax as evidence by various statements reported in our local press.
Let us also remember that the chambers of commerce not only has pushed for the county option income tax in the past, but has also tried to push for a regional sales tax only applicable to three counties in Northwest Indiana and Porter County is one of them.
I support the formation of a true citizens committee composed of ordinary citizens, taxpayers, business people and others who do not have hidden agenda. I would like to say that I do not remember voting on any motion giving anyone authority to name a committee to study anything. I strongly now move that this council not approve a study committee as set out above and further urge this council to go on record as opposing a county option income tax.
It is clear that mistakes have been made in the budget process in Porter County. All elected officials need to share some responsibility in this regard. Whatever is done is done and now our job is to set a proper course of action for future actions, which are in the best interest of Porter County. I personally think that we can accomplish this without putting any additional tax burden on the taxpayers of Porter County.
Those that say that we do not have sufficient funds operate need only look at the budget of many of our county offices. Some of these budgets have more than doubled in the past five or six years and it is clear that the population of this county hasn't doubled over the same period of time.
Tonight I suggest that rather than forming a committee to study the feasibility of another tax, we form a committee whose direction is to study ways to cut spending in his county, so no new taxes are needed.
Further, I propose that the taxpayers be told the truth about the county option income tax and the special interest groups quit trying to lead them to believe that by passing a county option income tax there will be property tax relief. The type of income tax that is being talked about by these people, by law, absolutely does not provide for any property tax relief. We are constantly being bombarded with the fact that Porter County is only one of a handful of Indiana counties without an income tax and while this is partially true, it is grossly misleading. The majority of Indiana counties have enacted the type of county income tax that mandates and requires that a corresponding property tax cut be enacted.
We must also make sure that the citizens realize that not one dime of the county income tax will go towards our schools. If the schools are in financial trouble now, they will still be in financial trouble if a tax is enacted. Many taxpayers have been misled to believe that an income tax will cancel any increase in their property taxes due to the recent large school construction projects. This is not true and this fallacy should be laid to rest immediately.
The shortfall to Porter County by virtue of the bankruptcy of Bethlehem Steel is about $4,000,000, while the projected gain from the county option income tax is $30,000,000. Anyone who says that any taxpayers' property tax will decline is just not being truthful. All that we are going to do is hand over to various county office holders millions of dollars and I'm sure they will have no trouble spending this.
Many of us on this council are running or shortly will be running for election. Rather than try to hide behind some bogus committee, I think that we should let the voters know ahead of time where we stand on the tax. I can't think of no more disservice or dishonest way to face the voters than to simply give vague answers on this tax until after the election and then point a finger at the impartial committee as a basis of our vote, based on the recommendation of the people on the committee.
I myself am making it clear right now that I do not intend to vote for a county option income tax. I know that we can cut spending and live within our budget. It won't be easy but it can be done. The first thing we need to do as a council to learn to say no to non-essential expenses.
We need to remember that it is the working men and women of this community and not the chambers of commerce that pay the majority of the taxes used to run this county. The community that I represent is made up of many steelworkers. Many of these men have lost their jobs and have been forced to take lower paying jobs or are working less if they are still employed at the mills. To add another tax to this burden at this time would be unconscionable.
If my motion opposing the county option income tax is approved as it should be, I will then move that we form a committee to start working on solutions to our problems, rather than run around wringing our hands and yelling that the sky is falling and once again looking to the taxpayers to bail us out.

Ms. Stroud, Anybody else have something to say?

Mr. West, You know, I'd like to add one other thing. Last week--and our auditor was there--everybody received their property tax bills last week. They were up like 20, 22, 23%. Okay, everybody is blaming the auditor--not this one--the old auditor and some assessor somewhere, simply because the assessed valuation went in low. Okay, I asked the question last week at the press conference. If the assessed valuation is corrected this year, will our taxes go down? The answer I got was probably not. So I think what we've got to do is we've got to look into county government and overhaul county government and get to our state legislators and do something about the schools' problems. End of my say.

Ms. Martin, I just have one for clarification purposes. I think the numbers that are thrown out are sort of not clear, with reference to a couple of issues. $30,000,000 would be the total amount of money brought in for all entities. It would not be the amount of money given to Porter County, number one.
I think the total amount of money that was lost from Bethlehem's three payments was 5.6-something million. It was 1.9-something per. We've cut 2.9 million as of the last budget when we reduced the budget process, so we've got about half of that. We got a 2.3 million dollar loan from the Department of Commerce, which we have to repay. We got our tax anticipation warrants to carry us over.
I guess the one thing that I have a problem with is the State saying that we have to adopt a tax by this date or you are going to be paying interest. I do not like to be pushed by the State, due to the fact that some of our problems come from state decisions. As its been stated previously, had the State taken over during their last budget process, the school taxes, you would have seen anywhere from 60 to 75% decrease in property taxes. I think that's where the problem falls.
My taxes alone are $5,000. $3,300 to $3,600 is the school's taxes and I'm not saying that's wrong because that's what we pay for. In Indiana we expect education for our children. In order to get that education we have to pay for it. The question is, how are we going to pay for it?
What concerns me is, I don't want to delay, delay, delay. I'd never look a gifted horse in the mouth. The bottom line, when people come before us and offer their services I appreciate it. Any type of input from entities or individuals I think is commendable. We have far too many individuals that do not take an active role as it is. I am, at this point in time, not for the county option income tax because I've seen where because of a situation from Bethlehem Steel we've been put behind doors that say you have to do something now.
I think with the doom and gloom from respect where it's pushing against the wall, but in all actuality I've seen what this council can do. We did cut. We have cut some areas. I think we cut a total of six to eight employees. As Carole said, 100-some employees, but out of those employees, 25 to 30 were the commissioners' employees. They were well aware of those decisions when making those requests. We were constantly looked at the fact that we were making a wrong move by adopting these employees and that's been since 1996. You are talking about a six-year process here. You are not talking about last week alone.
As of three years ago we had 3.2 million. The problem was that we were looking at adjusting the salary structure of the employees and it was too quick that it happened. There should have been more planning in that. But that also takes in consideration planning from all departments. We have to have some goals. We have to have some ideas where we as county government want to be in the next five years. We cannot be functioning the way we are now, every year making a decision, then just expecting it to fall into place. It doesn't work that way, because of emergency situations.
I would commend the people--like I said--for offering their services and maybe structuring it so that maybe we can have. We've got a mission statement in place. Now let's look at setting some goals for county government; what we want to look at. I don't want to look at this group like, okay, maybe some of their minds are already made up, like some of our minds are already made up. But that doesn't mean they're wrong and it doesn't mean they're right.
Let's look at this as an opportunity to work with the people that come before us, because if we do not work with the individuals that come before us now, don't expect them to come back later when we need their help. So all I'm asking is that, and I agree with Carole being hesitant, but I don't think in 30 days you're not going to come before us and say that we have to adopt a tax. You know that's not going to happen and so what if they do come? We don't have to make that decision.
If you look at some of the names, what concerns me, nobody from Portage offered to do this. I guess that is a concern of mine. But if you look at some of these names, I mean, I'm looking at some…

Ms. Stroud, There's a Portage and there's a Portage.

Ms. Martin, A couple, but I'm saying when you look at most, its mostly Valparaiso if you look for the individuals on the volunteer group. But if you look at some of these names, I know five or six right off the top that are definitely against the county option income tax. So I think some of those people are being represented there.
So I'm not saying that this committee is set up as preconceived, but I'm thinking that they are like we are on the council. We have three or four members that are against it. We have three or four members that are for it. Oops, we've only got seven members. But the bottom line is, we need to take all that in consideration. Maybe there are things that they can bring forward to us that we are not looking at, because of the fact that sometimes when we are looking at the budget process, certain people work with certain departments, okay. So they only know about their department, but they are not looking at it.
Of course it's always easier to point your finger at someone else than it is to say okay, maybe it's my department or maybe there's another way to look at this. But any idea is a good idea. I'd hate to say that we did not accept their help, then later on say, why do we not have the individuals involved. I would suggest that all of us look at an opportunity to work with the individuals. Whether it's the chambers, whether it's a business person, they have individual views also. They are not just representing the chambers and sometimes their personal views are the reasons that they were hired by those committees.
Like I said, as of this point in time, I'm against a county option income tax. But I would like to see what kind of ideas they can come up to help us through our struggle and to help us with ideas of how we can either curtail growth, with reference to the overhead costs in Porter County or some of the management ideas that need to be addressed in Porter County, which caused these problems.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you. Does anyone else have anything to say? We do have a motion on the floor. Karen.

Mrs. Conover, I just wanted to add that most of what Karen said is in my notes. I think the numbers have been skewed. They have been misrepresented. Between the two mills we've lost over $7,000,000 at the end of last year and this year and National Steel is not paying next year. It is unknown to us whether or not Bethlehem will even be resuming taxes next year.
Karen had mentioned what the commissioners had put on. 77 of those employees put on over the last six years have been in the criminal justice system. The commissioners did create a new department, the Emergency Management Agency, which I think we can all stand up and be very proud of. It's made a lot of in-roads. He has already got towers now for our weather warning to help our residents seek early shelter.
With all that said and done, what I've been sitting here hearing the last couple of meetings is there is no preconceived notion with you coming here. You've offered your services. You want to help us. We are not reinventing the wheel here. This is done in the City of Valparaiso all the time. I see that we have a lot of people who applied to be on the working committees. It's right here in the mission statement. The working groups will be inclusive and not exclusive, in addition to the people who have already indicated an interest. Anyone who is inclined to participate should be encouraged to attend the working group meetings.
I will move that we don't want to let this wonderful opportunity to fall by our wayside. I do not believe that this group comes to us with preconceived attitudes as to what we should do. We want to study it. Study all aspects of our government. Does anyone here have anything to say?

John Leander, Yes, let me make a comment. There's been an awful lot of dialogue in the newspaper over the last three weeks. Now we've heard tonight at least twice, at least maybe three times that we are a special interest group and we have one thing in mind.
You have not heard from our group in the newspaper. We have not taken a shot. We have not set out and said what we will or what we will not do. As a matter of fact, I have a document that I am carrying tonight that reiterates the truth that is behind what we attempt to do. I can say without a doubt, we are not here nor are we going to recommend nor are we going to advocate a county option income tax. If someone is attributing that to us I'd like to talk to that person because the people that sit behind me are the ones who have been in these meetings and we talked about this. We are being slandered quite honestly and it's unfair without you hearing what we have to say. I'm the new kid on the block. What the chambers may have supported in the past I can't speak to that, but I know we are going to support them in the future specifically towards this issue.
I think that as Ms. Martin said and as Mrs. Conover is talking about, we are offering consulting services to you free of charge. We may not have all the answers. We certainly may not know all the intricacies of county government and how it works and what can happen, but we can certainly give you the benefit of what we have to offer. You can take it and do with it what you like. If you want to throw it in the trash--circular file--that is your choice. You're more than happy to do that. You are the only ones that can make the decision on what's going to happen in the county. I can't tell you what to do. I can vote. I can make that choice. That's the choice that I have and that's the choice the folks behind me have.
We came together because we felt strong enough the special interest that we have is the County and seeing us through and helping you through and seeing the County through this fiscal crisis and maintaining the quality of life that we've come to expect in this county. It's great that this county has no county option income tax. It's a good reason to live here and it's a good reason to encourage businesses to relocate here or to come here for that exact reason.
We are not advocating any additional tax. Lord I don't want to pay anymore, I pay enough as it is. I set mine off and I've still got to pay. I don't want to do anymore than that, nor more than the people behind me want that. So please, let's represent in the paper the comments that are being made that are truthful. We are not recommending that. We have not made up our minds. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
What you would get from us would probably be a list of a number of issues for, against, plus, minus. We want to give you as many options as you can get, because that's the way you make an informed decision. We have the expertise. We do this in our business. We come from varied backgrounds. There are a lot of great people here. We want to help. We put a lot of our personal reputations on the line. We ask people. I think we're hung up on the fact of who is on this committee. The work is being done in the working groups and you can make as many working groups as you like, 12, 24, 36, touch on an issue you want. Two people could discuss it and bring it to the process committee. They will put it together and hand you a document that will give you a list of a whole lot of things to look forward to.
I would ask, you have not heard from the chambers or this coalition in any respect in the past because we felt very strongly about staying above the frame. We want to offer the best advice that we can, free and clear of political, personal or any other agendas that may come up. It's as simple as that. It doesn't get any simpler.
I'm a very honest and truthful person. I've talked to a couple of you before. Hopefully I will get the chance to a few of you. What you see is what you get. I have no other agenda other than trying to help you guys through it. That's what we want and that's why we are here. That's the reason we have a president, two or three chambers here, we have other chamber directors that are here. We came here. We could be home with our kids, but we wanted to offer our help and that in a nutshell is the bottom line.

Ms. Martin, I thank you for trying.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you. Thank you very much.

Mr. Leander, You're welcome.

Ms. Stroud, We do have a motion on the floor to not take any action on this until the next meeting. Am I correct? And it was seconded.

Mrs. Knoblock, Right.
Ms. Stroud, Do we need to do a roll call on this?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Yes, we need to do a roll call.

Motion failed on the following roll call vote:

Stroud-NoWest-Yes
Carmichael-NoConover-No
Knoblock-YesMartin-No
Ruge-Yes

Ms. Stroud, The motion is denied, its 4 to 3. I think the next step would be for you to set your dates and get them back to us.

Mrs. Conover, Madam Chairman, do we have to make another motion to go forward?

Ms. Stroud, I think we do.

Mr. Carmichael moved to go forward with the Local Government Funding Study. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried on the following vote:

Carmichael-YesConover-Yes
Knoblock-NoMartin-Yes
Ruge-YesStroud-Yes
West-No

Ms. Stroud, The ayes carry. Sorry. The next step probably is we have make sure all the boards are filled. The County Council does get an appointment to the board or rather the process committee. Like I said before, Mr. Evans said that he would serve on this. Does any of you have anyone that you want? I mean, if you want to serve or is there any suggestions?

Mrs. Knoblock, I would like to make a comment. There are seven of us on this board and I don't know how many weren't involved with this. I'm really disappointed that I wasn't asked to come to a meeting or anything.

Ms. Stroud, We only had one meeting with them.

Mrs. Knoblock, I know, and who was asked?

Ms. Butterfield, We asked for volunteers at a public meeting.

Ms. Stroud, We asked for volunteers at a meeting.

Mrs. Knoblock, That was supposed to be a discussion meeting. But as far as appointing these people, I'm…

Ms. Martin, Okay, I think what Carole is getting confused with is the meeting that was held during the lunch for the mission statement. We were not aware of it. I agree with her. We were not aware of it. There were some people involved in the mission statement, good, bad or indifferent. I think that's where she's considering is the fact that she doesn't want the rest of the meetings to be held like that. She wants to make sure she has enough time--as do I--to attend the meetings.

Mrs. Knoblock, And we didn't have a choice of anybody. I think each one of us should have had a choice on who was going to be on the committee. But it's done. That's it.

Mrs. Conover, The meeting that was set though, Barb asked for volunteers to attend and we would talk about this. We did not have anything to do with the committee. We talked about the structure of the committee. I, as you, are seeing these names for the first time. I have had many phone calls from people expressing interest and I told them to submit a letter to either the Chamber of Commerce in their community or to our department and these are the people who have showed an interest.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, they showed an interest and either sent a letter here or sent directly to the chamber. If they were sent here I turned them over to them.
Ms. Martin, I guess the only question I have is, since there are so many sitting out here, there might be a couple of them that are town or city representatives, why are we holding off on that third one to be appointed?

Ms. Butterfield, We didn't have anybody.

Ms. Stroud, For the three town and city representative?

Mr. Leander, We had talked to the mayors of the individual towns and to make that decision to let them do it. The two names that we got were these two that are in front of you and we left the third to be open. We would go back to them and ask. We want to be fair. Portage nominated somebody. Valpo nominated somebody. We would like to see someone from either Kouts or Hebron make a nomination. The idea is to make it across-the-board as much as possible.

Ms. Stroud, In other words, there are still a couple of positions to be filled?

Mr. Leander, Sure, absolutely. One of which is from county government, which you all can make that choice. It could be one of you or someone else if you choose.

Ms. Stroud, So that would be the next step for us. Does one of you want to serve on this?

Mrs. Conover, I would like to serve on a working committee and I would hope that we all would as council people. I would like for this board to take in consideration, if he would do so, David Hollenbeck to be the council representative.

Ms. Martin, Nothing against you, Dave, but I have a little bit of a problem with that. Only because of the fact that, I think because your views are well known. We've heard them for the last couple of months. I think that Dave is already on so many different committees that I think it needs to be a council member just like it's a county commissioner member, to be on the government representatives. I don't think we need to have an attorney as our representative. We have this issue going on with Bethlehem Steel, the bankruptcy and all these other situations and I think we need to have a council member representative. Don't take it personally, okay?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Okay. I guess my response to that would be, if there's anything, Karen said my opinion is well known. What is also my opinion is I care dearly about this county and this community and I want this process to work. If I am going to be a lightning rod or if I'm going to be part of the problem in the minds of some of you people, then I want to step away and get somebody in there who can bring credibility to the process.

Ms. Martin, And that's why I think it needs to be a council member.

Ms. Stroud, Does anyone want to volunteer?

Mr. West, Madam Chairman, why don't you take it?

Ms. Stroud, Madam Chairman has so many other things that she's on.

Mrs. Knoblock, Being that we've discussed this, I'd like to look it over before I make a decision on that too. I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel.

Ms. Martin, We don't have to give our representative at this point in time. We can wait until next month to make that decision.

Mrs. Knoblock, Yes, I don't think we should push it.

Mr. Leander, No, you tabled it for a month and we'd be happy. We'd love to have one of you a part of it.

Ms. Stroud, Can we get back to you as far as ours?

Mr. Leander, Absolutely.

Ms. Martin, We didn't table it for a month.

Mr. Leander, No, you've asked to…

Ms. Stroud, I mean, you can go on with your work.

Mr. Leander, We're going to go…

Ms. Martin, It wasn't tabled, unless I missed something.

Ms. Stroud, Mrs. Willis.

Martha Willis, As the process proceeds, I just think it's extremely unfortunate that people keep harping on the question of being against an income tax. The whole purpose of this is to study what other options there are and if you can only say that I'm against this, I'm against this, I'm against, we aren't going to get a discussion going.

Ms. Martin, But, as with all true democracy, you have to have the pros and the cons. You have to have both sides.

Mrs. Willis, Absolutely, and that's what we are shooting for.

Ms. Martin, So it's people like us that are going against that will keep the people like for it.

Mrs. Willis, I hope we can get past that and talk about the other possibilities.

Ms. Martin, Well, but I don't want you to think that I'm so closed-mind either that just because at this point in time I have decided to be against, because I have been involved in county government for the last seven years, eight years, and I have seen things that have occurred that I feel were wrong. That I think we need to look at the full pictures. I look at the merit of a project. I do not look at one specific element of it.

Mr. Carmichael, Karen, did you vote for the jail bond issue?

Ms. Martin, We're you on it. Just kidding.

Mr. Carmichael, Wait a minute. Did you vote for it?

Ms. Martin, Wait a minute. Did I vote for the jail bond? Did I vote for the jail itself?

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, the whole bit.

Ms. Martin, I was on the committee, the jail committee.

Mr. Carmichael, You were on the committee. Wasn't that a tax increase?

Ms. Martin, Was it a tax increase? Well, okay, Bill, you created this little wonderful.

Mr. Carmichael, Yes, it was by bond issue.

Ms. Martin, Weren't you here then? Expo Center. Don't go there, Mr. Commissioner. I don't want to go there.

Mr. Carmichael, What I just said was…

Ms. Stroud, I've got the gavel in hand because it is going to come down.

Ms. Martin, Don't be throwing it at people.

Ms. Stroud, Oh, I'm not throwing it.

Mr. Carmichael, Look at Portage, they got a tax increase coming up. They are trying to fix them all or trying to fix the streets, $7,000,000 worth.

Ms. Martin, Its not one situation that has put us in this position.

Mr. West, How about redevelopment, Bill.

Mr. Carmichael, Oh, that's what it is?

Mr. West, That's what that is.

Mr. Carmichael, Okay, well this is re-inventing government.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, sir?

Mr. Galovic, This whole process is designed to be a bi-partisan, fact-finding mission from A to Z. From taking a look at what you guys have already done in relationship to controlling county government, is there more, are there other options in relationship to, other avenues, other people that have already gone through this process. Is there different ways to accomplish what we want to accomplish from? We're throwing on the floor, we're keeping it all on the table and tapping into the best minds and resources that we have in the county to help support this function.
In the final analysis, you are the elected people that will have the final say in relationship to what we've delivered to you. Good or bad, you make that decision. But to taint it, to suggest that people have different agendas that does not benefit the process or the free-flow of information or the davit-finding collection and debate in relationship to what we are trying to accomplish here.
We have gone out of our way and most of our organizations to suggest that there are strong emotions on a lot of different issues and on a lot of different levels. We need to keep our heads by not taking a position until we have heard everybody and everything. We have a lot of pressure from our members that are for and against a lot of different things and we've asked them to be patient with us.
Let the process take its course, deliver what we find to the people that we've elected and let them make the decision. In the final analysis that's what we are trying to accomplish and we would appreciate the opportunity to do that to serve your constituencies as well as ours. We can wait 30 days for you to decide who you want to represent us, but we come here pure in thought. We would like to deliver something that is forged by the opinion of the residents of Porter County for Porter County as decided by you as to the direction this county takes for the next 20 years. Out of all of this controversy, we have a great opportunity to recreate what we want in this county. I would suggest that we put away bi-partisanism to try and accomplish that.

Ms. Stroud, I appreciate your statements, because that's exactly what I was saying. I think we have to go into it with an open mind whatever our preconceived notions are, our feelings are, and try and look at all the issues here.
We said to go ahead with the process. I think we can come back next month and at that time we'll be ready to make our appointment to the committee. I know some of us want to serve on some of the subcommittees because of the time allotment, but hopefully we can come back to a person who can represent the County Council at the next meeting. I appreciate you coming.

Mr. Galovic, Do we have an official motion legitimizing us?

Ms. Stroud, Yes. I will be in touch with Deb when you decide as far as the meetings are and we'll go from there. We appreciate that. Thank you very much for your time.

Mr. Carmichael, You are now baptized.

Ms. Martin, You're bringing religion into government?

ATTORNEY'S REPORT
Interlocal Agreement Report

Ms. Stroud, Yesterday our attorney and myself attended the Interlocal governmental meeting, which was held at the Westchester Library. This is the group that was formed to represent us in the action being taken in New York. This is the first time they have come up with a budget. They did take a vote, but as Dave said, he has to run it by us before we can give our final approval.
As you can see, it is broken down into two separate areas. The total bill so far for the legal services will be $37,500. Something that is not given to you here is a breakdown for this. If you remember the major portion of it is being picked up by the Duneland School Corporation, then accordingly down, the different entities will pay the portion to come up 100% of the payment.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I believe our share is right around 20%.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, that's what Terry Hiestand figured out yesterday.

Ms. Martin, Just clarifying. You said this is $37,500 and $37,500 for the total service.

Mr. Hollenbeck, This is their budget for through the end of this calendar year. Both Barb and I felt comfortable at the meeting yesterday committing to the top part of it, because you had authorized the creation of the interlocal for that reason. As you know, there's been a proposal to expand the purpose of the interlocal.
One of the things that the assessors have asked for repeatedly through the years is legal representation when appeals are filed by taxpayers. Of course Bethlehem Steel has an appeal on file to reduce their taxes by 60% and that's being challenged and we'll probably end up in Indianapolis in tax court, so there are millions of dollars at stake. The consensus of the Interlocal was that we all have a stake in that and that this Interlocal would be a good vehicle to pursue legal representation to help our assessor defend their decisions on real estate and attack the proposed reductions that Bethlehem has made for their property taxes.

Ms. Stroud, I think one thing that needs to be pointed out, at one time the State would handle the appeals were there. Now they've thrown it back to the local entities, so whatever township or wherever the corporation is that has declared the bankruptcy that has an appeal, then that particular township has to pick up the cost.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Right.

Ms. Stroud, And in this case it involves so many millions of dollars, surely Westchester Township cannot afford to handle this whole process without some outside help. So what we are asking for, like Dave said, the final permission so he can get back to the Interlocal that we agree with this budget for the year 2002.

Ms. Martin, So our amount would be $7,500?

Ms. Stroud, Yes.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Whatever 20% of $37,500.

Mrs. Conover, Considering the millions and millions that are involved in this issue, this coalition was formed for this purpose to represent all of us together, I think it's a small price to pay.

Mr. West, It's the cheapest attorney fees I've ever seen.

Mr. West moved to approve to Interlocal Governmental Agreement Budget as submitted. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

PRESIDENT'S REPORT - RESUMED

Ms. Stroud, I have a couple of things. Those people who worked with Com. Evans since he was the one who sat in on it, Karen Martin, Leon and Karen Conover, I'd like you to get with him to readdress the E-911. I think we need to look at this again. I would like to see you get back together again to see what we can work out here.

Mrs. Conover, Can I call Com. Evans, because we had some conversation this evening.

Ms. Stroud, That's fine. I didn't know you met with him in the hallway.

Mrs. Conover, It was a chance happening and I asked him when it was convenient to meet with him. He has indicated to me in front of Council Member Carmichael that the commissioners are willing to work with us if we choose to raise the fund. I don't want to speak for your board.

Com. Evans, Right. The commissioners have had conversations in this regard. We are willing to dispense the funds in an appropriate and fair manner as we are doing currently. We would take into consideration everyone's request when we do that. We are not willing to commit specific amounts to one project or another. We will certainly dispense the funds in a fair and equal manner.

Ms. Stroud, So what you are saying is, we have to pass it here, but you would have total control over the dispensing of the funds?
Com. Evans, Right. We are not taking a position to tell you whether or not to increase it or decrease or leave it the same. That is your decision. If you do indeed see fit to raise it, we will see to it that the monies are judiciously spent. Kind of a role reversal for us.

Ms. Martin, I would suggest that a committee be set up to decide how the monies…

Com. Evans, I don't think that's a good idea, because that's what happened with that first committee for E-911 and if that committee had done its function there would only be one principal place doing dispatching and we wouldn't be having this discussion. The ordinance creates the 911 spending the way it is and I would not suggest changing it in any way.

Ms. Martin, Well I've seen the spending and I have.

Com. Evans, Well you suggested the other night at the meeting that we put the money towards the insurance.

Ms. Martin, I did, but I also suggested that, that a certain amount be set aside for the technological aspect.

Com. Evans, Well its…

Ms. Martin, Let me finish, John, because you brought it to my attention. I also suggested that Valpo City get a part of it and Portage gets part of it and the County get part of it, so that all entities would be able. The most logical way would have been the percentage. But the bottom line is, we're going to increase it. The Council is going to be getting fingers pointed at us, but then we're not going to be able relieve any problems with the general fund. That's what I think was part of the reasoning that we were supposed to be do it.

Com. Evans, It's never going to relieve general fund problems, never. It's not designed for that.

Ms. Martin, It's not fully going to, but the bottom line…

Com. Evans, It's not designed to.

Ms. Martin, You know, it's amazing. This is how many years? I've been here eight years and you've been here how long? I've been on the 911 Committee.

Com. Evans, I've been in county government for 28 years, Karen.

Ms. Martin, I understand that, John. But you know what, I've seen what has happened also with committees and I've seen how they've worked positively. I've seen where democracy works more than dictatorship.

Com. Evans, Well that's why that…

Ms. Martin, And I think all of us need to have some input there.

Com. Evans, That's why that committee was disbanded because they couldn't make a decision, because 911 just floundered and no one could decide what to do. That's why we have three principal dispatching points right now when there should be only one.

Ms. Martin, No, that was a political maneuver, John. Why don't you look at the full picture there?

Com. Evans, It's the same thing. It's the same thing you are talking about. You know, earlier when I was up here you are telling me that we are going to put the money in the general fund because you are going to tell us how we're going to spend it. Now the law says the shoe is on the other foot. You decide what you want to do as far as the fees and we decide how to spend it.

Ms. Martin, Well then if we're not going to relieve any of the responsibility…

Com. Evans, So if we each want to keep within our own parameters that's the way it should be. Don't put restrictions on us. I told you we have agreed to do it in a fair and equitable manner.
Ms. Martin, Well I'd like to see some sort of plan because…

Com. Evans, Well I'm sorry…

Ms. Martin, What you feel is fair and equitable.

Com. Evans, Well. We are the ones charged with the administration of that fund.

Ms. Martin, And we're the ones charged with increasing it. Unless I know where it's going to I don't feel the need to increase it.

Com. Evans, Well, that's your prerogative. I'm not here to tell you to increase it, decrease it or do anything with it. You made the…

Ms. Martin, Well did you not just recently approve a 4% loan per funding for 911 and software for the jail and otherwise? When this funding might have helped that process?

Com. Evans, That money can only be paid a third per year, whatever, and E-911's share is nowhere close to $1,000,000. The total project was $1,000,000.

Ms. Martin, But if it's a three-year process, $300,000 each year, which would have been part of the monies that we would have brought in from that would have covered that process.

Com. Evans, E-911's total commitment there is $269,000, I believe.

Ms. Martin, Okay. So if we had given the $.75 we would have increased 911 surcharge by $800,000 to $900,000 per year, which would have covered that process there and you wouldn't have had to pay the 4% loan, correct?

Com. Evans, No, they are limited to what they could participate in anyway. The other portion is the jail and the Sheriff's Department. The computer-aided dispatch center is part of the jail and E-911 is paying the maximum amount for that software that they could, under any scenario.

Ms. Stroud, So $269,000 was the maximum.

Com. Evans, That's the maximum they can contribute.

Ms. Martin, But had we used those monies under the general fund with reference to the 911 and the software aspect of it, under the radio dispatching and the CAD, we could have covered some of those had we increased the surcharge is what I am stating and not paid the 4%.

Com. Evans, You know, it's a tax and the way I look at it, it's your prerogative what you do with it, we just spend it. That's the way it is. It's just the shoes are on the other foot this time. That's all.

Ms. Martin, Okay.

Mrs. Conover, I guess I wanted to add, I'm not here to debate what was done some years ago with the three PSAP's. We have the three PSAP's. I would to see the County reimburse, there's a human aspect to 911 and it's our radio dispatchers.
Portage and Valpo have also sent letters to this entity and to the county commissioners and they would like reimbursement for their operators. Not anymore than what they have, manning trunk lines or whatnot.
Whatever formula we could come up with and work with and if we need to, have another meeting to discuss it. It was my understanding from talking to Com. Evans--this meeting right before this meeting, that's why I came in a little later--that they are willing to work with the
respective entities and do a reimbursement. If we can hash that out, I think it's beneficial for both communities and it's probably going to save this County a lawsuit. I'd like to sit back down and discuss it.

Ms. Stroud, As I stated previously, if you people maybe could get together and come back to us, then we can go from there.

Com. Evans, We're willing.
Ms. Stroud, We're not making an decisions on it tonight, but my idea was that you would get back together again to see what we can work out. Okay?

Com. Evans, We're willing to do that and we're willing to dispense the funds if you raise the fees.

Ms. Martin, But you're not willing to give us any type of plan as to how you are going to dispense the funds?

Com. Evans, Well, I'm not going to…

Ms. Martin, Give us the money and we're going to do with it what we want. We do that all the time.

Com. Evans, No, we're required by the parameters of the law to dispense the money and we're put in those parameters.

Ms. Martin, But don't you realize that falls into the goal of Porter County and what needs to be done with reference to the 911 dispatching process, as well as other things, John. It's just not about.

Com. Evans, It's about 911 is what we are talking about.

Ms. Martin, And those dispatchers, Valpo, Portage and Porter County are in 911, aren't they?

Com. Evans, Well, we do not want the additional employees, number one. So if you start paying Valpo and Portage's employees, are you also going to pay their insurance?

Ms. Stroud, No, we don't want to.

Com. Evans, Yes, nobody wants that. So I think you are going to leave it to our discretion to act in a prudent manner with these funds as we have in the past.

Mrs. Conover, I guess I wanted to clarify. It has never been my intention when sitting on this council or this committee that the 911 dispatchers from Valpo and Portage become county dispatchers. They are employees of their represented entities. They absorb the cost. It's just a reimbursement. There's a human aspect to running it. This is something besides the technology and whatever we can come up with, some type of a solution. No, they do not become county employees, they remain respective employees for their their respective city.

Com. Evans, I agree. We need to make sure that we work within constraints to keep them that way.

Mrs. Conover, Yes.

Ms. Stroud, Right. So my comment was, please revisit it and get back to us so we can go from there.

Com. Evans, We're ready. You raise the tax and we'll.

Ms. Stroud, You get together on the surcharge, then come back to us. Then we'll decide from there.

Mr. West, Surcharge.

Com. Evans, Tax, surcharge, user fees, whatever you want to call it.

Mrs. Conover, Money, we'll call it money.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you. We'll just call it money. I don't have anything else. Attorney's Report.




ATTORNEY'S REPORT - RESUMED
Resolution 02-04-16

Mr. Hollenbeck, A couple of matters, Madam President, to bring the Council up to date on. As you know, pursuant to your instructions we did close on the $10,000,000 tax anticipation warrant. $5,015,000 of that money was used to pay off the tax anticipation warrant that was issued to us by the Indiana Bond Bank. That did two things that were beneficial. Number one, it delayed the ultimate repayment to December 31st instead of June 30th and it alleviated the need to have the lock box created as the taxes came in.
The rest of that $10,000,000 is available on an as-needed basis to pay our bills. I've been advised by the Auditor's Office as of yesterday that we will not be able to make payroll on Monday unless we access $750,000 of that money. So we have asked the banks to release to the Auditor's Office--and I believe it will be here on Friday--an additional $750,000 so that we can remain solvent and pay our bills.
As you know, after a couple of glitches everybody really put their feet down and worked their behinds off and got the tax bills out as early as they've ever gone out. The money is in fact coming back in. The Auditor and the Treasurer's offices are working to access that money as expeditiously as possible. That will continue and that will help our cash-flow situation.
As you are also aware, the Governor did sign the Porter County bailout bill. As of this morning the State budget agency and the State Board of Finance, which consists of the Governor, the Treasurer and the Auditor of the State has set up a procedure for units of local government in Porter County to access those monies.
What I am going to hand down to you is the resolution that they are indicating that you must adopt in order for us to access these monies. These monies will be accessible in the same pattern and fashion as Bethlehem Steel's failure to pay property taxes. So we will miss three property tax payments so our access will be one-third, one-third and one-third. We've already the November 10th payment of last year, so one-third of our actual amount--and Karen mentioned it earlier in the evening--it's a little under $6,000,000; 5.8 or 5.9 million. One-third of that amount we can access immediately and that's what this resolution does. After May 10th, we'll be able to access the second third of this money, then after November 10th, we'll be able to access the third third of the money.
As you'll also remember, a condition of the Department of Commerce loan last fall was that when and if the Legislature passes the bailout bill, then in that event, we have to pay back the Department of Commerce loan. So virtually all of the first third of our access of this money will simply go to the Department of Commerce to pay off the Department of Commerce loan that we accessed in December so that we could pay our bills immediately following the failure of Bethlehem Steel to make their November installment. After May 10th , then we can access the second third, then again, the third third after November 10th.
I'll answer any questions anybody may have, but to be able to access the monies so we can pay off the Department of Commerce, and at this point, this bailout money will carry an interest rate of right around 1%. The money from the Department of Commerce carries an interest rate of 3%, so this is something we should do in any event to reduce our interest costs from 3% to 1%.

Ms. Stroud, I just had one other comment or question. That 1% is based on what? Because I was reading something where it was going up the last couple of weeks? Slow, but.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Right. Its based on a formula they came up with that involves what used to be the consumer price index, but I'm not sure what its called now.

Ms. Stroud, Okay, that's what I thought.

Mr. Hollenbeck, But its still hovering around that 1% level. As has been discussed in the discussions this evening, the statute also expanded the window of opportunity to consider a local option income tax and in fact provides that the interest will go away when and if that ever occurs.
The payback of this money, you owe this money back from the bailout bill when one of two things happen, whichever happens first. Bethlehem pays some of their delinquent taxes, then you take those delinquent taxes and pay back the loan with them or the expiration of 10 years, whichever happens first.

Ms. Martin, Okay, for clarification purposes. It is my understanding that since we cut 2.6 or 2.7-something million out of the budget process, we really don't need to the first payout, which would be May's. I understand we have to have the 2.3, which would have been the November, of the total to pay the Commerce back, which is good because it reduces to .08 or whatever the percentage, but since we've cut the budget we don't have to have a first payout of May and it's questionable how much we need for the November payment.
Mr. Hollenbeck, I would agree that all the document before you does is authorize the borrowing of the first third, Karen. You can evaluate the need for the second third after May 10th when we see what the tax situation is.

Ms. Stroud, So we could stretch it out, the tax situation, in such a way?

Mr. Hollenbeck, Right, you don't have to borrow. The only thing out of the bailout money that you have to borrow is the money to pay the Department of Commerce.

Ms. Martin, But we ought to maybe start looking at paying back the cum-bridge fund also.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Right.

Ms. Martin, Because of the fact that it's going to tie them up with their projects.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Right. Not to bore you with more details, but to give you more information on that, the last cash-flow statement that Umbaugh's office did for us, contained the need to make a $600,000 payment on the Department of Commerce loan in December. By converting that Department of Commerce loan to the bailout loan, you don't have to make any payments this year at all on that, which basically means you've got $600,000 of cash flow that's not in your cash-flow statement right now that can be used to minimize what you're going to have reborrow from the bridge fund.
Right now you owe the bridge fund $2,000,000 on June 30th. We've talked all along about the fact that this scenario we've devised to keep you afloat until December 31st included not paying a dime of that back. Now that we have the bailout money in place, we can reduce that $2,000,000 borrowing down to $1.4 million and put $600,000 into the bridge fund that they wouldn't otherwise have. But to pay your bills, you're still going to have reborrow from the bridge fund.

Ms. Martin, Well it was my understanding also that after we still made our cuts of 2.6 or 2.7 or whatever, we still were short $523,000 to finish the year out.

Mr. Hollenbeck, Correct.

Ms. Martin, But that did not take in consideration National City.

Mr. Hollenbeck, National Steel, which is the next thing on my report. So I guess at this point it's my recommendation that you adopt the resolution, that we access the first third of the bailout money, which will go to repay the Department of Commerce loan and reduce our interest from 3% to 1%. Then at your May meeting, we revisit the cash flow and financial situation and see what needs to be done to further access the bailout.

Mrs. Conover, What is the resolution number?

Ms. Martin, It would be 02-04-16.

Mr. West moved to adopt Resolution 02-04-16 as submitted. Mrs. Conover seconded, motion carried unanimously.

Mr. Hollenbeck, I will pass down the signature copies for you to sign them.

National Steel Bankruptcy

Mr. Hollenbeck, The last thing on my report is the National Steel bankruptcy. As you are aware of, Midwest's division of National Steel Corporation has followed Bethlehem Steel into a Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
I have this distribution sheet, but I didn't get a chance to copy it, but I will copy it and send it to you. But the total amount lost is 5.5 million dollars for all the units of government in Porter County. The County's share of that is $878,000. I've got the breakdown here. The county general fund is $610,000, then all the other separate funds. I will get this out to you in the mail. Of course this simply adds to the shortfall situation.
Another component to this though is that just like Bethlehem Steel has appealed their taxes, National Steel had done that a number of years ago. The assessors had reached a compromise agreement with National Steel, which resulted in some credits off of what they owed in taxes. I think I indicated this to you in my last letter. Up until the point they declared bankruptcy, National Steel Corporation had agreed to accept a credit, the total amount of the refund was to be 1.6 million dollars and they agreed to accept that in four equal installments of $405,000 credit off of what they owed. Since they are paying nothing now, there's nothing against which to put a credit, plus it may well be that that credit is owed to the bankruptcy trustee, not to National Steel.
So I have advised the Auditor's office and the Treasurer's office that we are not going to distribute any of that money back to National Steel in the form of any kind of payout until that issue is clarified. That is the extent of my report.

Ms. Stroud, Can we have a second reading, please.

SECOND READING

Ms. Martin moved to approve second reading. Mr. West seconded, motion carried unanimously. 



Ms. Stroud, Does anyone else have anything they would like to bring before the Council? Why don't you come up here? Please state your name for the record.

Bruce Aubrey, I live in Valparaiso. I received this letter. I was one of the folks who volunteered to be on this committee. I was one of the folks who also called in and spoke to Bill about it and asked for some information. I had a couple of concerns and issues that I wanted to raise. One, I wasn't clear in reading the letter that I received from the Council. Actually, your name is on it.

Ms. Stroud, Actually it was from me.

Mr. Aubrey, I wasn't clear if that meant that I was actually going to be on a committee or if I was just being thanked for volunteering to be on a committee.

Ms. Stroud, Your name is on the list, correct?

Mr. Aubrey, Well I'm not sure.

Ms. Stroud, Yes, your name is on the list. What they are going to do is contact you. They have the top committee. There's 14 on the process committee and then you'll be part of a subcommittee underneath. They will contact you in the near future to put you on a subcommittee or see what committee you would like to serve on. Okay?

Mr. Aubrey, Okay. I would just like to point out a couple of things. I've heard a lot of discussion here today and as a citizen I'm really trying to keep an open mind about this tax. I will be the first one to say that I opposed it the last time the issue came up in the County.
I generally am against taxes only because I think if the money is going to be spent one way or another and I think their opportunity is to save and tighten our belts rather than increase taxes. I'm one of the folks in this county who is also in threat of losing their job and frankly don't feel that I need pay another tax and hope that another tax isn't put in place.
But I wanted to come here and raise that issue and let you know how I felt about it as a citizen and also raise the issue of the notification. I heard discussion about was the committee formed and how did people get on this committee. I took a little action and called a couple of people and I sent the letter, but I don't know what kind of notification there was other than an article in the paper.

Ms. Stroud, There wasn't. There was here at our meetings urging people. Then it was in the newspaper articles when the reporters reported about our meetings; please submit your names to the Council or to the Chambers. That's how the notice got out.

Mr. Aubrey, So I mean, had I not have seen the article in the newspaper, I would not have known to volunteer.

Ms. Stroud, That's basically how it was put out to the public.

Mr. Aubrey, I guess that concerns me that a lot of folks in the county or in the area may have wanted to volunteer for these committees that weren't offered that opportunity because they didn't see the notification.

Ms. Stroud, If you know people who like to serve I would suggest that you have them contact Deb Butterfield who is at the chamber office here in Valpo. They are more than welcome to put their name in and be a part of it. We don't want to close the door on people who would like to serve on the committee. I thank you for coming and stating your views. I appreciate that. But you will be contacted by them.

Mr. Aubrey, Thank you and I appreciate the opportunity to state my case.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you for coming.

Mrs. Conover, Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Anyone else? Yes, sir.

John Whitcomb, About this committee. I'm sure these people are fine upstanding citizens who want to help. That's all they have in their minds is to help you people run this county government. But I as a voter and a citizen voted for some of you people up there. I voted for you because I thought possibly you could do the job without consulting everybody under the sun or buying consulting services. You've got a good consultant there--Mr. Hollenbeck--I don't know what else you need. I don't know what else you think you need. If you can't do the job, step aside. That's my feelings about this. Thank you.

Ms. Stroud, Thank you. Does anyone else have anything?

There being no further business, meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m.


PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL
PORTER COUNTY, INDIANA

William Carmichael
Karen Conover
Carole Knoblock
Karen Martin
John Ruge
Barbara Stroud
Leon West

Attest: Sandra Vuko, Auditor