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PORTER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS REGULAR MEETING TUESDAY, MAY 15, 2007 6:00 P.M. The regular meeting of the Porter County Board of Commissioners convened at 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 in the Commissioners’ Chambers of the Administration Center. Those present were: Commissioners Robert Harper, John Evans and Carole Knoblock; County Attorney Gwenn Rinkenberger; Administrative Assistant Melissa Hartig; and Recording Secretary Vi Wagner. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE President Harper called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance. APPROVAL OF PAYROLL Com. Knoblock moved to approve the payroll of May 14, 2007, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Com. Evans moved to approve the minutes of April 17, 2007, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. APPROVAL OF CLAIMS Com. Evans moved to approve the claims of May 8 and May 15, 2007, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “I am going to take a couple things out of order. I am going to take Cheryl Polarek next on the update of the Child Advocacy Center.” CHILD ADVOCACY CENTER UPDATE Cheryl Polarek, Prosecutor’s office Ms. Polarek, “We, in the proposal of the memorandum of understanding with the Commissioners, basically agreed to come here every eight weeks to give a status. We are sort of at the same status, in other words, we’re still working on the building. The painter is done, the contractor is moving a little slower than we would like so we are going to light a fire under them. We are at a status quo in that respect. Part of the proposal was that the Commissioners would put in a driveway and a small parking lot so I don’t know at what point you want me to start looking for bids on that.” Com. Harper, “Why don’t we get the Highway?” Ms. Polarek, “Contact Dave Schelling?” Com. Harper, “I will get a hold of him tomorrow. I will get a hold of Highway tomorrow and then get a hold of you. Okay?” Mr. Polarek, “Anything else you need?” Com. Harper, “No, that’s fine. Any questions? When do you think you are going to be ready?” Ms. Polarek, “I am hoping soon. Everything else is sort of ready to go, we’ve got the video system ready to be put in, we are still trying to work with the furnaces and we were talking about putting in a security system to go with all the video equipment.” Com. Harper, “All the police departments signed on for your insurance problem?” Ms. Polarek, “Right. I haven’t gotten any actual final paperwork from the city of Portage but I have talked to Greg Sobkowski and he is getting that for me. It’s just a matter of getting that from Portage.” Com. Harper, “Any questions?” Com. Knoblock, “No.” Com. Harper, “Thank you very much. We will get a hold of Highway.” Ms. Hartig, “Where is the money going to come from?” Com. Harper, “Well, let’s find out what it is going to take for Highway to do it first. Thank you. The next thing is an ordinance vacating a platted right of way in the First Addition to Roble Woods Subdivision. This is second reading. Where are we at on this?” ORDINANCE VACATING A PLATTED RIGHT OF WAY WITHIN THE FIRST ADDITION TO ROBLE WOODS SUBDIVISION-2nd Reading Com. Evans, “This is the one that we postponed a couple of times and we approved at the last Commissioners’ meeting and we’re at second reading. Is that correct?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “That’s correct.” Com. Evans moved to approve the ordinance on second reading, Com. Knoblock, “I didn’t know that was a motion. I misunderstood you. I was going to vote no on it. But it’s already been and we can’t change it, right?” Com. Evans, “We have to have before it…, an ordinance to vacate, we have to have two readings, that’s the law.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Yes, so, Bob did you vote for it last time? I mean, there were two votes for it this time if Carole withdraws her vote because she misunderstood John’s motion.” Com. Harper, “John, let me ask you something. Didn’t we get something after that meeting that said the information we got at that meeting was incorrect?” Com. Evans, “No, during the meeting we had a petitioner withdraw their objection, or not the petitioner, one of the remonstrators withdrew their objection saying that they talked with the petitioner and that they were now in favor of granting. That was the only thing.” Com. Harper, “Is there anyone here tonight on this?” Com. Knoblock, “Well, our surveyor, not surveyor, I’m sorry, our engineer, Mr. Hollenbeck, he kind of requested this.” Com. Harper, “No, Schelling, you mean.” Com. Knoblock, “I’m sorry.” Com. Harper, “Dave sent out a memo after the meeting saying that he didn’t have that …” Com. Evans, “Then I think Mr. Schelling should go out there and look at it because it is the last piece of property. I mean, if there is no problem with this vacation, then if I was the homeowner and I didn’t get this vacation after all we did to them, I think I would be inclined to…” Com. Knoblock, “I guess they did clean it up.” Com. Evans, “They cleaned it up. They are the last piece of property in that whole area to ask for this little piece of…..” Com. Harper seconded, Atty. Rinkenberger, “Actually we had Dave Schelling’s opinion and you guys disregarded it.” Motion carried. Com. Knoblock, “Sorry.” Com. Harper, “That’s all right because I saw it.” NORTH COUNTY COMPLEX HEATING AND AIR PROJECT-DLZ Com. Harper, “For the record, if you guys would both state your full name and whoever is going to make the presentation may make the presentation.” Richard Dorney, “With DLZ.” Stephen Kromkowski, “With DLZ.” Mr. Dorney, “For those of you who don’t have a book and are interested, we’ve brought some pretty pictures for you. I hope you had an opportunity to see this report. We walked the building, noticed a few things maintenance wise and clean up wise that needed to be done, talked to the maintenance people out there about the condensing unit that has gone bad again. This building was built in 1979, it was a fairly decent job at the time, unfortunately that’s 28 years ago. And today’s technology is much improved and therefore I think we can do a much better job with it. Our recommendations are …” Com. Harper, “Why don’t you talk about it a little bit because there is more than one way this job could be done, correct?” Mr. Dorney, “Yes.” Com. Harper, “In fact, Johnson Controls is suggesting a way.” Mr. Dorney, “Johnson Controls has suggested a way, they pretty much, I would say, are in agreement with ours with a few exceptions. They want to replace the valuable air volume boxes which controls the air flow into the space. We concur with that. They want to replace the condensing unit which is going bad. That we disagree with. That’s a direct expansion system, those are very difficult to control in a variable air volume environment. We would change that to an air cooled chiller. We run chilled water virtually infinitely variable and flow and capacity so you don’t have compressors kicking on and kicking off, which is what caused the problem to begin with.” Com. Harper, “John had a question about the compressor because obviously the people up there right now, they don’t have a system that works. And if you replace the compressor, you would almost have to make a commitment to the other system, right? Is that correct or not? Or else you are going to spend $40,000.” Mr. Dorney, “You will spend $40,000 and in short order we take it out and throw it away. I do believe we can probably rent a chiller as quick as we could get the compressor replaced.” Com. Harper, “Pardon?” Mr. Dorney, “We could rent a chiller, get it piped up as quick as we could the compressor in place.” Com. Harper, “How much would that add to the cost of this project?” Mr. Dorney, “Rental chillers are not inexpensive, but you are only looking at 3 or 4 months of use and you can buy a chiller and have that permanently installed.” Mr. Kromkowski, “I think a couple of things, just in terms of the schedule, if you went through a conventional design bid publication process and then installation we would actually recommend that you purchase the chiller separate, it’s usually a 10 to 12 week period to purchase a new chiller, the delivery time for that. We’ve worked out some initial scheduling numbers but if you do order that, it takes about four weeks for a bid in process, just for the public bidding standpoint, two advertisements, ten days after the second and so forth. It will take us between three and four weeks at the most. We will try to compress that schedule a little bit but about 4 weeks to have the documents ready out for bid so by the time, and then there’s another 4 weeks to actually do some, well, after the contractor bids have been awarded, to do some modifications to prepare the ________ to the chiller itself. So, with all that said and done, you will be able to order the chiller, if you ordered it by June 1st, you would be looking at some time in July having the chiller in place and also having the equipment ready to accept the chiller and then by the end of July, beginning of August this new system could be in place. I think part of the question that the two systems are, you know, technology has just changed over the last 28 years and with that, we’re sort of using what is sort of standard practice now for the chiller and trying to not only achieve comfort, but some of the problems with comfort it is humidity and moisture in the air. Some of that is, well, Rick can explain that a little bit better than myself in terms of the technical aspect. From a layman’s standpoint, by going with the air cooled chiller you would be able to address some of that humidity problems that you have which causes discomfort as well in that space.” Com. Harper, “Let me go back to the question from Mr. Evans. If we rented that chiller, how long would it take to do that because I think John, and I am, too, concerned about the people.” Mr. Kromkowski, “This summer…..” Com. Evans, “That building sits in a fairly open area and just gets baked. The inside of it just gets like an oven. And I can’t see making them wait. At the end of last year they went through this thing and we were on again, off again, with the air conditioning. It’s just taking so long. Is the old system so antiquated? I’m told it’s still put in some buildings today.” Mr. Dorney, “You don’t see a DXBAB system with the type of technology there put in any buildings. DXBAB is a viable system that controls our set up as a package from the manufacturer. The way this is set up Johnson Control and the chiller, you’ve got it’s called variable ____ to control the volume of air going through the air handler that hasn’t been done in 20 years. It doesn’t save any energy, looking for comfort control. If we use an air cooled chiller and put frequency drives on the fans, the numbers I came up with are pretty safe in excess of $10,000 ____ plus increase your performance and your comfort level is up.” Com. Evans, “I don’t propose to tell you how or why to do it, but I just want to reiterate that we need to maybe put this thing into a phase type of effect so we can get those people in that building in a comfortable position because a month from now when it is 90 degrees, I am the guy that is going to get the phone call that we can’t work in here because it is too hot and they’re going home and they are just…” Com. Harper, “Let’s go back to the question if we rent a chiller. Tell us about that.” Mr. Dorney, “Did exactly the same thing in East Chicago. Had a long delivery time on the chiller, we rented a chiller and got it there in four days. They ended up paying after almost a year of buying that same chiller and left it hooked up. It might take two or three weeks to get it hooked up because we have to run the piping which we don’t have presently and install a pump. I think physically, it’s been on the same pad that’s there unless we get very lucky, I haven’t checked on the availability of 70 ton chillers today.” Com. Harper, “Let’s go a little further. So let’s say there is one available, okay, and we rent a chiller, then there’s going to be some costs for hook up, right? Are we going to have to bid that or can we just do that, Gwenn?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “I have no idea what the costs are or I haven’t even seen this report, I didn’t get one, so I can’t give an opinion on too much here right now.” Com. Evans, “The total cut, we could break this…” Mr. Dorney, “There’s several parts to this.” Com. Harper, “Total cost for this project is approximately how much?” Mr. Dorney, “Depending on what pieces you put into it. Our recommendation is go through the building and do it one time, do all the maintenance work that is required, change out the controls, vary the frequency drives, add a chiller, and it comes to $350,000.00.” Com. Harper, “And your fee is 10%?” Mr. Dorney, “Approximately.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “How much would it cost to bid it and rent a chiller while we are in the bidding process? Would that be additional?” Mr. Dorney, “That would be in the neighborhood of $400 a day to rent a chiller. About $12,000 a month to rent a chiller.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “And we would have to have it how long if we rented it? And we started the project?” Mr. Dorney, “You would probably have it roughly two months.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “So that would add $24,000 to a $350,000 project? Let’s rent a chiller and authorize them …” Com. Harper, “Plus their fee for overseeing. I think we should do this project. We’ve been round and round long enough. I am suggesting we go in for this.” Com. Evans, “How much to just replace the condenser?” Mr. Dorney, “Like $40,000.” Com. Evans, “$40,000 to replace the condenser. That would put us back in the same place at renting a chiller except for the humidity levels.” Mr. Dorney, “The humidity levels and next year at this same time you will have the same problem again. I think Johnson Controls told us they replaced that compressor twelve times.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “And how much each time?” Mr. Dorney, “$40,000. It’s probably more expensive today than it was 7 or 8 years ago.” Com. Harper, “We’re going to have to get it from extra CEDIT because of the property replacement is going to take care of it.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “You guys should be able to with the money we have now authorize renting a chiller and then if they have, if this gets a specific enough cost, then we can make a motion to receive and then you could take this to the Council, at least you would have specific numbers.” Com. Harper, “I think we can proceed with it.” Com. Evans, “We can proceed with the rental of the chiller but everything else is going to have to be bid.” Com. Harper, “I understand that but we can authorize them to start working on this project, correct?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Yes.” Com. Evans, “Are there enough specs in there for a bid process to begin with what you’ve got there or do we need to…” Mr. Dorney, “We would have to prepare a set of documents. Bid documents. There is a lot of small what seems to be inconsequential details in this project. A lot of the duct work is flexible duct that only goes 50 feet. You don’t need air out because the pressure drop there is just too high. That’s what need to be flexible, and the AB boxes need to be replaced, substantially more efficient (inaudible)…whole five boxes.” Com. Evans, “Are we going to be causing other structural aspects to be replaced as well, drop ceilings and what have you…..” Mr. Dorney, “All the duct work runs in an attic that’s more than adequate to get around in. I don’t believe we have to add structurally. There will be a little cutting through the wall to get pipes through, once they are inside the building, they’re up in the attic space.” Com. Harper, “Okay, how should we word this?” Com. Evans moved to rent the chiller and conduct emergency repairs as needed until we can get the Atty. Rinkenberger, “I think you can do better than that. I think you could make a motion to authorize them to proceed with preparation of the bid specifications, authorize them to rent the chiller, and …..” Com. Harper, “And do the work necessary to install it.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “And do the work necessary to install it and then you can go to the Council with the costs of the project before it’s let for bid. And then if they say no, well, then you’ve lost a few dollars…” Com. Harper, “Well, then we’ve got some other avenues.” Com. Evans, “Something has to be done. So, I’ll make that motion.” Com. Evans moved to authorize DLZ to proceed with preparation of the bid specifications, and to rent a chiller, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “If you need anything let us know. If you need back on our agenda.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “They should come back, once they get their bid documents done, we should look at them and approve them.” Com. Harper, “They’ll have their contract. But you’ve got the go ahead to do the chiller and then work can start on this.” Mr. Dorney, “We need to have the bid documents released no later than June1st, I expect it’s going to be quicker than June 14th.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Why don’t you come back June 5th, will you have them ready by then?” Mr. Dorney, “Should have.” Mr. Kromkowski, “Just in terms of rental of the equipment, DLZ will not be renting that equipment.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “We would be, so give the agreement to us.” Mr. Kromkowski, “It’s just the legwork and paperwork and getting the information together.” Com. Harper, “As John says, we need to get it as quickly as we possibly can. Thank you. Okay, the next thing we have is Ken Perkins, approval of a couple of contracts for the Juvenile Service Center.” OFFICE HOLDERS/DEPARTMENT HEADS Ken Perkins, Juvenile Service Center Director Approval of contract: Integrator.com Mr. Perkins, “First I have the renewal of a service agreement with Stanley Security Solutions and that is one we’ve had for a number of years and there’s no change from last year’s. It’s for basically our automated security system.” Com. Harper, “Any questions on that? Do I hear a motion?” Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Approval of contract for Youth and Family Services Mr. Perkins, “The next one I have is our contract with Family and Youth Service Bureau for consultation and counseling services. The change from last year is last year it was $35.00 an hour and this year it is $50.00 an hour, but it has been ten or eleven years since they had raised it. We’re surprised they didn’t increase it prior to this.” Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Approval of Tiburon Contract Dave Sheibels, E911 Director Dave Lain, Sheriff Mr. Sheibels, “I’ll start if that’s okay. As you know, I kind of wear many hats with public safety information technology. One of my hats is to project manage most of the information technology at the Sheriff’s Department building. About six years ago, we bought into the Tiburon system and at that time that was funded by a combination of congressional grants, and other local funding. That was limited because of budgetary constraints we were working under, we bought what was prioritized as the Tiburon system to replace the Clews system, if you remember those words way back when. In any case, one of the components of the Tiburon system that we could not buy because of budgetary constraints, the Sheriff’s Department could not buy I should say, is the Tiburon Integrated Mug Shot System. Nine years ago, I project managed and purchased for the Sheriff’s Department a video mug shot system called PSP and that’s running today in the Porter County Jail, however; it’s what we call a stand alone system, it’s not integrated to the Tiburon system. That leaves us with open areas to do a comprehensive integration throughout our public safety community such as putting mug shots into police cars as a primary example. Having other police agencies in Porter County and surrounding areas able to come in and look at Porter County Jail mug shot pictures or video line ups and other type of criminal investigations. This system would finally close that loop in our Tiburon system to do that. This also includes a complete data conversion from the PSP data base in approximately nine years of inmate pictures, tattoos, scars, marks, everything else that is taken when a person in booked at the Porter County Jail. And that will convert that into the Tiburon system as part of this package. So it’s a complete integrated system now finally. We tried to do this with Sheriff Reynolds a couple of years ago, unfortunately you could not get clarity on funding, but it was brought to my attention by Sheriff Lain and Chief Doug Snider at this time that there is funding available and the Sheriff has asked for that funding to go towards this project.” Com. Harper, “Where’s the funding?” Chief Doug Snider, “We are asking for it to come out of the balance of the $1.33 million sign on bonus.” Com. Harper, “Didn’t we go through and ask the Council that the last time? No? I thought….. we didn’t?” Chief Snider, “Ask them for permission to buy it out of there?” Com. Harper, “Yes.” Chief Snider, “I think it just takes your approval.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “How much money is in there?” Chief Snider, “According to the cap agreement. There is $64,000.00 left in there.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “From the signing bonus.” Chief Snider, “From the original signing bonus for housing federal prisoners.” Com. Harper, “What did we just take out for all the computers? We just took out of the jail prisoner fund?” Chief Snider, “It might of come out of the 217 fund, which is the monthly money that goes into there. This is a different fund, the original signing bonus and there’s a balance left of $64,000.00.” Com. Harper, “All right.” Com. Evans, “This is your loan to the Council fund, right?” Chief Snider, “That $600,000.00 came out of this exact fund that we are speaking of, yes.” Com. Knoblock, “What’s a signing bonus?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “We got $1.3 million when we signed a contract with the U.S. Marshall’s back in 2002 to take on their federal prisoners. We agreed to keep 40 federal prisoners for 20 years.” Chief Snider, “Fifteen years.” Com. Evans, “And the Council agreed to borrow $600,000. I mean, as long as we are talking about history, let’s get it right.” Com. Harper, “You don’t want to hear my little speech.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “No.” Com. Evans, “Well, let’s not take it from someplace else. That money was supposed to go for police needs.” Com. Harper, “All right. Do I hear a motion?” Com. Evans, “The price is $49,599.00?” Com. Knoblock moved to approve the purchase of the Tiburon Integrated Mug Shot System, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. COMMISSIONERS’ REPORTS Com. Harper, “Let me just say this. There is one thing here. Let me read what Dave Schelling said about his report on this building. He said he met with Ron Pertl, who is from Mid-Continental Restoration, Inc. on May 2. This is the firm that did the restoration work on the county courthouse several years ago. He believes the more expensive white Portland cement was not used for the exposed concrete panels as specified in the bid documents. He is talking about this building and why the windows keep streaking. It appears that the exposed surfaces were sealed with a white sealer for the proper white appearance. This material is chalky, and will appear on your fingers when you rub the surface. This is the material staining the windows whenever it rains. Jeff Lucas, technical representative for Prosoco says that if the surface is cleaned for sealing, the white color will likely be removed. Attached is a page from the Administration Center contract bid document that shows that the specified white carbon cement. I hope to learn more from Ron Pertl in the near future. Were you aware of that, Gwenn?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “No.” Com. Knoblock, “So, they have to clean the walls?” Com. Harper, “That’s what they are saying. That the building was not done properly. That’s what they are saying.” Com. Evans, “Obviously the statute of limitations is lost. I think we need to look for a fix rather than to look for a place to find blame because I don’t know that anybody is going to come back after, what, how long has this building been open? Ten years?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “94.” Com. Evans, “Yeah.” Com. Knoblock, “So you are saying the building has to be washed?” Com. Harper, “What I am saying is, apparently they are going to meet again, he’s saying if they do that it will take away the color.” Com. Evans, “Of the grout.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Maybe we should try a little area where it’s not very obvious and see what happens.” Com. Knoblock, “Well, this is ridiculous, the windows are dirty year ‘round and then we are paying to have them cleaned three times and it doesn’t do any good.” Com. Harper, “Should we tell Dave Schelling to pursue this?” Com. Evans, “Yes, I think he should pursue it but I don’t know how we are going to pursue anything against the contractor. I don’t know how we are going to know for sure if he used Portland cement or if he just grouted it with something to make it look white.” Com. Harper, “All right, we will have Dave pursue it.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “The other thing brought up a number of times although it seems like a simple fix, is just if you notice the only windows that streak here is ours, mainly if somebody would price putting little awnings over them so the water doesn’t drip right down the window we won’t have drippy, stained windows.” Com. Harper, “Well, let’s have him pursue that also. I think we should have Dave here the next time to talk about this Safe Roads to School Program. Did you see that? What do you think about having him here?” Com. Evans, “That’s a good idea. Melissa, will you ask him to be here two weeks from tonight to discuss that program and what we can do.” CORRESPONDENCE Treasurer’s monthly report for April 2007 is on file. Court Security Activity Report for April 2007 is on file. Weights and Measures monthly report for April 2007 is on file. Approve Porter County American Red Cross to hold blood drives at the Administration Center from 7:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. on the following dates: June 29, 2007 September 7, 2007 January 4, 2008 February 29, 2008 Com. Knoblock moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. Approval for the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War to hold their annual Memorial Day ceremony on the Courthouse square on Monday, May 28, 2007 at 10:00 a.m. Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Approval for Gary Atherton, Porter EMS Director, to proclaim May 20 through May 26, 2007 as “EMS Week” in Porter County Com. Knoblock moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. Request by Jim Kopp, Porter County Auditor, to pass a resolution authorizing credit card use by any/all Porter County offices Com. Knoblock moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “Stops them from charging small items and then have to be reimbursed, instead it creates a receipt.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “So you mean it is not a county credit card.” Com. Harper, “No. Well, I guess maybe it is. It creates a receipt. We’ll have to ask him that question.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Because I remember before when we wanted a county credit card it didn’t work out very well.” Ms. Hartig, “I think he went through First National and you get a package of ten cards, they’ll all say Porter County Government but then they will have the elected officials’ name on it.” Com. Harper, “Here’s the problem we run into. People like the Expo Center, they’ll be there on a Saturday afternoon exhibition, they need something, there’s no way to get it, so they go buy it and then they reimburse themselves. We want to make sure there is a paper trail on where that money goes. The same thing happens at the Memorial Opera House.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Okay, it will create new problems, but, we’ll deal with them when they come.” Com. Evans, “The other thing is that he has become much more efficient at getting our bills as we evidenced with our claim system, getting our bills through and approved quicker, which will prevent the other problem with the use of the credit cards in the past was the accumulation of interest and finance charges because of the way the county pays its bills. And he seemed to have rectified that and this would speed the other process so I think it is at least worth a try.” Com. Harper, “Okay, so we passed it. Any more comments?” Com. Evans, “No.” Approval for Joe Kusiak, Assistant American Legion Baseball Manager to proclaim Tuesday, June 5, 2007 as “Opening Day of the 2007 Porter County American Legion Baseball Season” Joe Kusiak, “I am Joe Kusiak.” Com. Harper, “Okay, Joe, did you want to say anything about it?” Mr. Kusiak, “I appreciate the proclamation and it will inform the public that we have a league we intend to grow and (inaudible)…… might entertain that some other legion posts have forgone that program. Every one of these programs that succeeds, ties up another 18 to 20 kids that would be doing something different or failing to be doing something. We can keep their hands busy for two months and start a second team up there will be 32 kids and we draw kids from seven Porter County cities. We hope to bring in tourism and things like that. I am also working with the Valpo Realtors, help them bring teams so they can look at players, and we have another place to play.” Com. Harper, “Thank you very much.” Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Approval of addendum to the maintenance contract with Otis Elevator to change the billing cycle from quarterly to annually. This would entitle Porter County to a 3% discount on the maintenance agreement Com. Knoblock, “Explain that to me.” Com. Harper, “Well, who put this on the agenda?” Ms. Hartig, “Me. We currently have a maintenance agreement with Otis Elevator for the elevators in this building and the courthouse. What they are proposing is that they bill us annually instead of quarterly and then they will give us a discount if we change to annually.” Com. Knoblock, “I was thinking of a farm elevator. Sorry, my mind was going in the wrong direction.” Com. Evans, “Far be it for me not to want to save money.” Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “You know, on number 10 I haven’t had a chance to look at these yet. Number 10 is the quote on the carpets. If you guys wouldn’t mind, I would like two more weeks to get a chance to look at this.” Com. Knoblock, “Sounds good to me.” Com. Evans, “Well, Melissa was going to, maybe she could give us a report back. One of the things we wanted to know was if they were going to be able to install it on the weekend and one said no and one said yes, did that change?” Ms. Hartig, “One said they would have to install it in the chambers during the week.” Com. Harper, “Which one?” Ms. Hartig, “I think it’s Tudor’s. But I have to get back to Charlotte to check to see if it’s possible they will do it on the weekend.” Com. Harper, “That’s what John wanted the answer to that. So let’s just wait two weeks. Okay?” Com. Evans moved to continue the request for carpeting, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Request for comments regarding the petition for Annexation of Certain Real Estate into the Boundaries of Damon Run Conservancy District Com. Harper, “And this I want to know what it is about. Is there anyone here on that?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “I figured that since they wanted comments, if anyone had any comments, now would be the time to make them as it says in the letter.” Com. Evans, “Should this be a public hearing type of comments?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “I have never seen or heard of any.” Com. Harper, “Let’s see, the hearing date is May 27th. If they want my comment, well, my comment would be that I would like the court to make sure that the residents of that conservancy district would receive notice of this Board of Director’s meeting, number one, and number two, that they have a disclosure statement that tells the people that are asking for annexation exactly what type of bond issue they are buying into and how much they are going to owe by doing that. I think it is important for full disclosure.” Com. Knoblock, “I don’t think we know enough about this tonight.” Com. Harper, “Well, they are just asking for comments, we don’t have to know about it.” Com. Evans, “The jurisdiction lies completely with the court and I think they would perform pretty much what they are asking us to do in the form of comments, wouldn’t they?” Com. Harper, “Well, let me just tell you, John. Here’s what we want. These things, you know, the statute, sometimes these things get started, these conservancy districts, and I don’t think this is true about this one, Damon Run, but I think there’s a lot of residents in that district, but it gets started just by the developers before the residents are there. And all of a sudden they are encumbering lot prices without really public discussion because there’s no public discussion because they are the only ones there. So all I am saying is I think if the court is asking for comments to be sent to the court, I understand that the court be careful, that public notice has been given to this Board of Director’s meeting to the people that live in that district, and that the people that are asking for annexation have a disclosure because I have seen some of these disclosures that say we understand that we are going to be subject to the fees of the conservancy district. I think it should be more than that. I think it should be if the conservancy district has passed a bond it should be… and we also disclose that there is a bond been passed and the minute we buy this lot we are all going to buy into this district, we are going to be on the hook for $18,000 whatever it is. Do you know what I am saying? I just think it’s important and I would just like to mention it and that is my comments. Spell out the terms so people know what they are getting into.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Then I think what we need to do is have Vi tape your comments and transcribe those first and do a cover letter and send it to the Division of Hearings and say here’s our comments.” Com. Harper, “All right. Does anybody else have any comments, that’s mine.” Request for transfer of funds—Commissioners Fund 10.30 $560.00 from acct 3120 consultants Into acct 2330 household & bedding To cover purchase of extra supplies for Sheriff’s Department. Ms. Hartig, “Our Maintenance Department was furnishing just basic necessities, hand towels, toilet paper, that kind of thing because they kept calling and asking Charlotte for it so she just went ahead and bought it. Her line item she buys all of her supplies from, she keeps it really tight down to the penny. So, since it was for the Sheriff’s Department, I just….” Com. Harper, “Is this for the restrooms out there?” Ms. Hartig, “I believe it’s for mostly the Sheriff’s Garage.” Com. Knoblock, “Is this a ___ fund?” Ms. Hartig, “Yes.” Com. Evans moved to approve the transfer Com. Knoblock, “Shouldn’t this come out of their department?” Ms. Hartig, “This is an ongoing problem but she feels bad when they call her and ask for the stuff, she needs to say no.” Com. Evans, “I think part of the problem is they both have accounts for household type things but I think that they think the public areas, in other words, the areas that are visited by the public and their employees should fall under our purview, and their line items should come for the inmates. I think that is where the discrepancy comes from.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “I think they are right.” Com. Evans, “I think they are, too.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “It’s a Commissioner owned building, although the Sheriff operates the jail so we should be supplying supplies for the public restrooms and the public areas of the jail.” Ms. Hartig, “It has been a question for a while, that and the Environmental building. If we need to start purchasing supplies for them we’ll have to make sure that their line item is increased.” Com. Evans, “She needs to take a look at that and take a look at all those extras that she takes all the way up to North County and the Courthouse and maybe we need to review that and maybe we need to put an additional line item for the Sheriff to address with the Council. The same with the Environmental under their own budgets.” Ms. Hartig, “This one was specifically regarding the Sheriff’s garage.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Oh, it’s not even the jail? Otherwise…” Ms. Hartig, “It’s the Sheriff’s maintenance garage.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “What do they need out there?” Com. Evans, “That’s a lot of toilet paper.” Com. Knoblock, “I say let’s pass this tonight but then we should look into and see.” Com. Evans, “I don’t want to put Charlotte in the middle because that’s what happens is that her budget suffers because of the other requests.” Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Knoblock, “We going to look into it?” Com. Harper, “Tell her we want, if there’s areas of doubt, don’t supply them until she talks to us.” Request for transfer of funds-Commissioners Fund 01.30 $5,000 From acct 3510 power To acct 3984 Safety Committee To fund the promotion of educational and preventative safety programs implemented by the Safety Committee for departments county wide. Com. Evans moved to approve the transfer, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Request for transfer of funds-Commissioners Fund 01.30 $2,316 from acct 3510 Power Into acct 4440 furniture/fixtures over $100 To cover purchase of filing cabinets for Judge Bradford’s office Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock, “They don’t have their own?” Com. Harper, “When the Council re-did the budget this year they asked them to take those hard items out, if we have to we can go back and get more CEDIT money.” Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Request for transfer of funds-Commissioners Fund 01.30 $89.15 from acct 3520 water and sewer Into acct 2320 auto, truck and equipment To cover repairs made to Weights and Measurers vehicle. Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. FIRE ALARM REPAIRS DISCUSSION Com. Harper, “Is there anything else for the Commissioners’ part of the meeting? Fire alarm repairs? Melissa?” Ms. Hartig, “Johnson Controls came in and performed their regular annual test of the fire alarms here and at the Courthouse and the first page is just what they did and what they found and the next two pages are what they are proposing. I believe one is just basically what to fix what has to be fixed and the other one is our things that need to be added.” Com. Knoblock, “This is just discussion.” Com. Evans, “I would never say that a proposal to fix fire alarms is not essential.” Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Harper, “Are you making a motion on both proposals?” Com. Evans, “Yes, both proposals.” Com. Harper, “Yes, I think we probably have to do this.” Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. LANDSCAPE PROPOSAL Com. Harper, “We have a landscaping proposal. John, what do you think?” Com. Evans, “I think it’s good, every job we’ve given this company has come out excellent. They really do good work and they document everything so, if you look at the before and after photos here, it’s a world of difference, and they are conscientious and they try to accommodate everyone and everyone’s schedule. They do a real good job all the way around.” Com. Harper, “Is that a motion?” Com. Evans, “Yes.” Com. Evans moved to accept the three proposals for landscaping from Goetz Landscaping for the county buildings, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “Part of that work by the way, he has coordinated with John Thorstad. Anything else? How about a five minute break and we will go into Plan Commission. Is that all right?” Com. Evans, “Sure.” PLAN COMMISSION Rezone, AG to RR, Robert Sands, Owner, 2nd reading Robert Thompson, Plan Commission Director Mr. Thompson, “First case is Plan Commission 07-3, petitioner Robert M. Sands, requesting an amendment to the zoning maps for a parcel of land to be rezoned from AG, Agricultural and Open Space to RR, Rural Residential. This is second reading, the Commissioners at their May 1st meeting voted to approve it by a 3-0 vote.” Com. Evans moved to approve on 2nd reading, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Rezone, AG to C4, Robert Barker, Owner, 2nd reading Mr. Thompson, “This is Plan Commission Resolution 07-4, petitioner Robert Barker, requesting a zoning map amendment for a parcel of land from AG, Agriculture and Open Space to C4, General Business. This is second reading also and at the May 1st meeting the Commissioners voted for approval by a 3-0 vote.” Com. Evans moved to approve on 2nd reading, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Rezone, AG to RR, Keith Freyenberger, Owner, 1st reading Mr. Thompson, “This is Plan Commission Resolution 07-6, petitioner Keith Freyenberger, requesting a parcel of land for zoning map amendment from AG, Agriculture and Open Space to RR, Rural Residential. This was heard at the Plan Commission May 15th, no I’m sorry, that’s today’s date, this was heard at the Plan Commission’s April 11th hearing. And the Plan Commission recommended denial of this petition by a 9-0 vote. This is first reading.” Com. Harper, “Okay, this is a public hearing and the petitioner’s attorney Lee Lane is here and there’s also people that want to speak on this. This is a public hearing and I will allow the petitioner a chance to present their case, then I will call on comments from the audience either for or against and again, give the petitioner a chance to respond to that and will probably call one more time for public comments and close the public hearing. So, go ahead.” Lee Lane, “Good evening. My name is Lee Lane, I represent Keith and Valerie Freyenberger in their petition to rezone a 40 acre parcel located in the northeast corner of the intersection of Route 8 and 450 East. Mr. Freyenberger has brought this petition regarding this parcel before. He has made adjustments before the Planning Commission based on accommodations to the community and to the county. But this is the first time he is bringing his request before the entire Board of Commissioners. The rezoning, I believe you will see is in keeping with the character of the community. If you want to turn your attention to that plat that’s got the highlighted yellow lots. Everything in yellow has been highlighted to indicate lots that are two acres or less. As you can see, a substantial number of lots, properties surrounding Mr. Freyenberger’s parcel are two acres or less. Some have been in minor subdivisions, some are actual subdivisions, some maybe zoned agricultural, but their size and their usage is residential. There has been again, a lot of discussion about this particular area in preserving the agricultural feel of that area. I want to turn your attention to the plat with the blue highlights on it. The blue highlights are property that is being used for residential purposes, which is even a greater amount of property than the land that is two acres or less. Sometimes, even though parcels may be divided into larger sections, their usage is primarily is residential and being zoned agricultural kind of creates an impression of farmland when in actuality the real character in a lot of ways is residential Large lots, yes, but residential. I think what’s happening is that people are really avoiding the subdivision process but residential usage does continue to grow in this area. Directly north, not on this particular plat but slightly north of here and directly east of Mr. Martin’s farm, there’s been some subdividing of property into approximately 11 acre parcels and these are directly across the street from the dairy farm. There’s no restrictions at all on the residences that are going in there but they are residences that are moving into that area and it’s an uncontrolled residential growth in a lot of ways. And what Mr. Freyenberger is doing here today is to present a plan for controlled growth and giving the county the opportunity and giving himself if the county so chooses, to provide an opportunity for people to move into this area without having to pay $150,000 for a lot. The growth that is occurring as I said is residential growth but the only people that are really able to take advantage of it are people who can afford to pay 100-150 thousand dollars for a lot. What in actuality or practically speaking happens is that homeowners who would like to move into this area and can only afford a 40-50-60 thousand dollar lot, don’t have that opportunity. Nevertheless, as I said the residential growth still continues. So, what Mr. Freyenberger is proposing is a chance to continue the growth that is actually there, to develop, in the middle of the residential usage that exists, not doing spot zoning, not doing anything which really changed the character of the property in any way, but to put in a subdivision, rezone it from agricultural to rural residential which is a transition place. It’s the type of zoning that takes place when you’re transitioning from agricultural to residential, which I think is hard to say that transition is not occurring. The next sheet is a picture or a plat of a proposed subdivision. Again, this is just a proposal. The sizes of the lots average approximately one and a half acres, which again is in keeping with those yellow highlighted lots that you saw there, which were all two acres or less in the vicinity. So, it is nothing unusual that’s happening in that particular area. The surrounding area would not be affected by drainage, I don’t believe that would be an issue in any way because the storm water control ordinance which was adopted in November of 2005 really has some very stringent requirements. Additionally, I am not going to read them but I submitted two letters, one from a soil scientist and one from Bill Davies, a registered surveyor who prepared the plat and when out there on the property. The only point I would like to highlight from Mr. Rensberger’s letters that he specifically explained how the proposed detention area that you can see there on the south section, of the proposed subdivision, will actually be designed to hold 100 year rain, 7 inches plus, and 100 year rain, and be able to release that into the county ditches if it were raining at two year storm event. So, it would probably help the drainage that’s occurring in the area and again, with the storm water control ordinance, there will be no subdivision there unless the requirements are met, which are extremely strict. In the event that the Commissioners would allow the rezoning to rural residential, this is an opportunity for Mr. Freyenberger to commit to the community; to do things that wouldn’t occur in the event that ten acre lots were created on his parcel instead, where modulars could go in and people could put mailboxes directly up against the roadway blocking or restricting movement of agricultural farm equipment up and down the road. He would be willing to set back some of those things to make way and make room for agricultural equipment to move down that direction. He would be willing to put something in his covenants and restrictions that reflect the fact that the Right to Farm Act does apply. And just as a final side note, also, of the 22 individuals or parcel owner that received notice pursuant to this petition, 19 of them are all residential property owners, so, almost everyone who received notice of changes of our proposed rezoning are residential property owners who would be similarly situated and exactly like the people who would be moving into the platted subdivision area.” Com. Harper, “Okay, thank you. Anyone that’s here to speak either for or against, we ask that you come up near the corner of this pew here because the microphone’s here, give your name and address and go ahead and make your statements. Just anybody that wants to start can start out. Is there anyone here? You have to give your name and address like at the Plan Commission because she is recording this.” Craig Snyder, “I live at 169 Lee Drive in Kouts. We have a farm, I don’t know if it’s a mile south of this subdivision. Apparently we are not within the distance for getting a notice but I am here this evening. In my opinion, if this gets rezoned from AG to Rural Residential you might as well through out the AG zoning everywhere because this is about as AG as you can get and in my opinion there is also spot zoning because I’m here and farm 720 acres in this general area. I am not asking for a rezone. I think Roger’s here, he is not asking for a rezone. And none of the other farm owners in the area are asking for a rezone. So, it really is, in my opinion, spot zoning. I am also very concerned about the drainage on our farm that is just south of 8, with the Hanna Ditch crossing through it. Two weeks ago I was out there working ground to plant corn and just nearly got the tractor stuck. We were able to get through and get it planted. This past weekend I was back out there, we were going to plant soy beans next to the corn, and again, I was having difficulties even with the whole week of dry weather. So, I really want to impress upon the fact that this is a high water table area. Mr. Freyenberger will say the soil’s are droughty and that is true, when it gets dry, it gets dry, but when it rains it can really get wet. I really would question the ability for a small retention pond to handle the 7 inch rain that is called the every hundred years. So, I definitely would like to see you not vote in favor of this rezone.” Com. Harper, “Thank you. Bob, before I call someone up, didn’t we have a highway report on this?” Mr. Thompson, “No. Highway reports don’t cover this unless it’s (inaudible)…” Com. Harper, “Someone else now. Who would like to speak?” Daryl Jarnecke, “I live at 487 E. State Road 8 within a quarter of a mile of the property here. The plats that you are looking at, the yellow, indicating here, most of those properties are anywhere from 20 or 30 years old, so, that type of zoning that it has allowed for, the one to two acre parcels, has been done 25-30 years ago. So, other than a house or two within that stretch of that area. There’s probably only one or two houses that have been built there in the last ten years. So, a lot of those small parcels are from many, many years ago. I think it represents a whole new argument relative to the new zoning issues that everyone is concerned about. At the Planning and Zoning Commission we had a 9-0 vote against it based on a couple of major issues, like drainage which has already been talked about. The other issue is safety on the highway. We are looking for an access coming out of the subdivision on a very busy highway that supports a lot of stone trucks moving back and forth from Medaryville, Francisville area, coming up with loads of stone for Porter County. So I think we’ve got a huge safety issue there as well. I think it is just this parcel also bodes well to if it’s approved, it just becomes the first link of potential subdivisions all the way up 450 to Valparaiso. So, I think we’ve got a lot of issues here when it comes to looking at this parcel as the start of a subdivision here in this area. Thank you.” Roger Martin, “I live at 1405 East Indiana Street, Kouts. We operate a dairy there, it’s just a mile east out of Kouts and then we own 200 acres just northwest of the proposed subdivision actually, the corners would actually butt up against each other across from the road. We have a heifer farm at that location and we haul a lot of manure. When you haul a lot of manure you’re not a friend of the neighborhood. We try to do a good job but it’s still manure and the wind shifts and it was kind of going away from everybody at that point and all of a sudden, like today, a front comes through and wow, they get slammed with it. There is a Right to Farm Act but like I said at the Plan Commission this civil suit thing is still a huge problem. And at this meeting at the Plan Commission a lady came up to me afterwards and said well, we got a civil suit against us over manure in Liberty Township. I think I got a lot to lose, and if you look at all these public parcels in the area, and Mr. Snyder has 750 acres, I have 200 acres, the majority of the acreage is farmland. Yes, there is other home owners around in that area but the majority is AG. So I am not in favor of this zoning.” Com. Harper, “Anyone else?” Glen Hefner, “I live at 486 East State Road 8. I’m just down the road a piece across from it. The lots she is talking about, the reason they ended up so small, that was between State Road 8 and the Pennsylvania Railroad and most of them was put into lots that started in 1957 when Bill Mitchell built the first house there. From that point on, they went. When I built there, there was already about 7 or 8 houses and we built in ’64 and those lots at that time, Mr. Deerdorf owned the half of mile from 450 to 500. He got old, he retired, he made some of those lots and the lots for his sons and his daughters. They put them in the lots that ended up only one of the sons built there, the rest of them all sold their lots. That’s how that all began to start. But that goes clear back to 1957 and 90% of those lots, and you can drive down and look, is in wooded areas. I am in the woods, across the street is all in woods, and the subdivision behind the railroad is all in woods. There is basically wooded area where all the other homes are. It is not an agricultural producing ground. The danger there, the water there, there is just a lot of things, it should stay agricultural. I am definitely against it. Thank you.” Com. Harper, “Anyone else?” Aaron Freyenberger, “I live at 393 South 150 East. A year ago I actually lived in Kouts and I am a small business owner, I am a general contractor, I have seven subs and four employees and things like this is what we rely on. I just got married not too long ago and to support my family and to support their families, there’s a lot of people that rely on subdivisions like this that are their likelihood. And also, like the clients that I appeal to are the people that want to live in these areas, and you know, that’s the thing, in Kouts, there’s a grocery store, __ just moved in, people are anticipating growth there. That’s kind of where I feel like I come in to supply that. And that is why, of course, you can tell by my last name, I am for it, but that’s why I think this is a good idea. Because we are starting to get a point here and I feel in my opinion, in south county, where some of these subdivisions are going away, you’ve got one of course, going in the town of Kouts, but not everyone wants to live in town. I mean, I know I don’t, that’s why I moved out of town. Again, I support the subdivision.” Com. Harper, “Anybody else to speak for or against? Let me turn it back to you.” Atty. Lane, “Okay. The farmland issue, two of the four remonstrators who are opposed to the subdivision live on small lots themselves and Mr. Freyenberger himself is a farmer. I respect and appreciate the fact that people like to be in the country and to look at farmland but when you own the farmland and it’s unproductive ground for you or less productive than other farmland that you own and you’re located in an area where you’re practically surrounded by residential usage and to a large degree, small lots. The perspective from the owner of that property is going to be that it fits that particular area and you’re not talking to someone who is just a developer, you are talking to somebody who is a farmer, who has an interest in farming, who shares the same concerns as Mr. Snyder and Mr. Martin does, who farms property himself and has the same issues they are dealing with. So he understands that and he knows that. He’s sensitive to it. It’s factored in, that’s why he’s come back because he’s adjusted and tried to make changes to make this as workable for everybody as possible in an area that clearly is not out of character or out of keeping. I understand the position of the people who own large parcels of land, 720 acres or 200 plus, but particularly, I mean, for people like Mr. Martin for example, right now he has four lots directly across from his farm where development has gone in and residences are going in. And that is going to continue to happen. The sensitivity of the people moving into a subdivision are going to be highlighted when it’s brought up and raised by the builder. You’re not talking about rapid growth either. Mr. Freyenberger would be developing maybe three to four homes a year, so by the time this subdivision is developed, you’re probably talking seven, eight years from now before you actually have maybe, 22 homes in the subdivision. So, this isn’t this massive influx of people who are going to affect all the traffic, the drainage is like we said really not an issue, I understand it is a concern for some people, but again the ordinance pretty much controls what is going to happen there. And it was designed that way for that purpose. So, we are talking about some real slow movement in an area that has a long history of having been residential that the growth that is occurring there is continuing to grow, it’s growing in larger parcels, like I said with people who can afford to do again. The traffic issue that was brought up a little bit today, I believe it is located on a state highway with an intersection with a county road. There’s traffic that moves through there at 55 to 60 miles an hour. That is the problem, it’s not the people who are slowing down to pull into their driveways; those are the people that are going to help this situation, they are going to slow the traffic down. Again, Mr. Freyenberger will be happy to work with anybody in helping to alleviate any issues and enjoining together with them in terms of traffic, but I would say a stop sign would do a lot more good and change a lot more than whether you have a few people moving in across the street who are actually slowing down and not creating or increasing or causing any traffic issues related to that particular area. I believe that is it.” Com. Harper, “Is there anyone in the audience one more chance if they have anything they want to add that they don’t feel they’ve covered. If not I will close the public hearing. Any comments from the Commissioners?” Com. Evans, “Well, I know we heard this about a year ago. My real big concern is the water and the drainage and I know people go into purchasing lots in a subdivision sometimes with their eyes closed and sometimes with their eyes open. I think a lot of times he’s right, you could have somebody live there for a year and they are going to say, did you smell that? There’s a manure farm over there, when did they put that in? And they are not really going to do their due diligence and we don’t have a way to require them to do that. You are obviously not going to want to put up a sign that says manure farm with the arrows that let people know. And it does dramatically change the look of the area. Those people, I’ve seen a lot of these types of developments pop up and the older residences that have been there in the 50’s and the 60’s. When they are taken care and maintained they look good and when they’re not they are not only going to drive their own property values down they will hurt your subdivision, too. I really am torn because I think you own the property, you should have the right to say what goes there, and the other part of me says though if it’s not good enough to farm who would want to build their home there? So I have a hard time. That’s all I have to say.” Com. Harper, “Do you have anything?” Com. Knoblock, “I guess I do. Has the soil been tested for septic systems?” Atty. Lane, “It hasn’t been tested on individual lots or anything like that. The second letter that was submitted in that packet to you is from John McQueshun Soil Solutions and he did do testing on the property. Based on what he had determined at that point, the soil borings that he had taken, indicated that there were no issues there with the septic system. Com. Knoblock, “Because there is a high water table all along there.” Mr. Freyenberger, “It is soil for septics. We had them tested. I wouldn’t put it there if it wasn’t. It will work.” Com. Knoblock, “I feel there’s too many homes in the small area. Are all the houses going to come out on 8 or off of 450? Some of them will?” Atty. Lane, “Yes, if you look at the proposed plat the lots that are located on the left hand side of your sheet front on County Road 450 East, so those properties would ingress and egress onto 450 East and then the road coming in off of State Road 8 would be a single access point. All the roads on there would funnel out from one location onto State Road 8 so that there wouldn’t be multiple driveways coming out onto the state road. The design was considered again, it’s just a proposal that can always be adjusted down the line. At this point it is just a rezoning to Rural Residential and subject to the determination of all these other things that at this point, I mean, I don’t think drainage should be the stopping point because there’s going to be no subdivision unless there’s compliance with the storm water control ordinance. There’s going to be no septic systems that go in there if the soils are not suitable. Mr. Freyenberger wouldn’t invest his time and his energy and his money and to go this far on a project that he didn’t the soils were suitable on based on testing that was done by a scientist and a letter indicating those things were true. Again, why put out the energy and the effort to have a surveyor come out there and to look at the property to determine how to control drainage as much as possible and to deal with issues in the water table. He’s not proposing any homes with basements in there. The homes that would go in there would not have basements. Again, I didn’t meant to indicate that the soil was unfarmable, it just was not as productive as some of the other farm land that he has which doesn’t mean by any means that you can’t put a house on there and have a nice whole new environment, a nice yard, and actually put something into the community. He lives in this community. He doesn’t want to put in a subdivision that is going to create problems for himself in terms of litigation because he’s got issues with septics and drainage and people complaining and calling him up. He believes in this project and has done the testing that shows it can work. At this point, we are just asking the Commissioners for the opportunity to move forward to the next step. Not to approve the subdivision because there’s so many things that have to happen before that occurs. But to allow him to rezone that property to Rural Residential in an area where so many properties surrounding it are residential and so many properties are two acres or less.” Com. Knoblock, “That scares me, too, when you say no basements because that tells me something.” Mr. Freyenberger, “You’ve got to remember that real stone too is on top of the sand hill, I never recommend basements.” Com. Knoblock, “And what about the ten acres. Do you have a plan for the ten acres?” Mr. Freyenberger, “That is an option.” Com. Harper, “Any of that plan has that option.” Mr. Freyenberger, “That is an option. If I go ten acres, I will have no regulations, not retention pond, no green space, I won’t have to be subject to all the ordinances and laws Porter County has.” Com. Harper, “Let me just say a couple of things. We just got done passing a new zoning ordinance and we zoned this agricultural. We did that after a lot of thought and a lot of comment and a lot of meetings. There have been in my opinion some past mistakes in that area, but to go in and put this one little corner in, in my way of thinking, if you go in and put this corner and you rezone it you might as well rezone everything. I mean what excuse would you have not to rezone the rest of it? I own 11 acres, if I wanted the highest use for my 11 acres would be for apartment buildings. That would be worth a fortune. But I am just not allowed to do anything I want to because I have neighbors that, I am in a residential area, we can all not use our land just how we want to use it. The example I always use with John is he certainly doesn’t want me in the house next door to him cutting my with rentals. Now that would make me more money, but so, we all don’t get to do that. The other thing that John talks about a lot is our master plan. And our master plan encourages developments like this nearer to the cities and towns where there’s septic and sewer also, but we’ve already zoned this residential. And the other thing as John talked about, we get it again and again and again. You build a subdivision and the next thing we are going to hear is they are going to be complaining about the farms, the manure, the smell, and the tractors going down the road and traffic slowing and this and that and the other. I think that there have been some mistakes made in this area, but we can’t build on mistakes. My feeling is that it’s an agricultural area and it should stay that way. We have, in Porter County, Bob, how much land do we have are zoned for houses, R1 and R2 in Porter County?” Mr. Thompson, “A lot.” Com. Harper, “Half?” Mr. Thompson, “Not very close.” Com. Harper, “So, there’s a lot of buildable land in this county that is already zoned for it. It’s not like it is going to stop building, so, that’s the way I feel. Anything, John?” Com. Evans, “No, I just… I really am kind of torn because I think that you have a right to do what you want with your property but I don’t know it is going to be the highest and best use for everyone that’s already residing there. And I go back to what Mr. Jarnecke said about the history of that area and how it grew and it really was, those places that you talked about how the courthouses, those are five acre lots, aren’t they?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “No, they are 11 acre lots.” Com. Evans, “Yes, they are very large size and you know, I just have a hard time. We had more people come to us wanting to make sure that their land was agricultural than we did the other way because they wanted to make sure that they could continue to farm. I don’t know, maybe one of the other farmers would like to purchase your farm land today, for the farm.” Mr. Freyenberger, “You know there is a big difference between farmland and residential land, and I have both. It has been zoned agricultural but I was a part of that process and there’s a great disparity between the two. Yes, I could sell it for farm ground, but we need the houses also, you know, that is our business. There’s a real shortage in south Porter County of places to build. I think this is a good place. I have lots of land, I have a lot of places I could have chosen from but this place, I feel, is consistent with the community or else I wouldn’t do it. I am not against putting a sign up, hey they are spreading manure across the road. I am a farmer, I am not against that at all. In fact, I think they should know that. But I ain’t afraid of that, people want to live out in the country that bad, they’ll do that.” Com. Evans, “But you kind of hit it on the nose again, out in the country, the master plan does say this type of development should be on the fringes of the city.” Mr. Freyenberger, “That’s a whole other argument. I really don’t think this is country, only with three sides.” Com. Evans, “Some people come from Lake County and think that as soon as they cross the line they are in the country.” Com. Harper, “Do I hear a motion? John, did you have anything else to say?” Com. Evans, “No.” Com. Harper, “Is there a motion to deny?” Com. Knoblock moved to deny the rezone, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “Thank you. Anything else, John?” Com. Evans, “Well as long as we are on South County, and what happened today, have you reconsidered your use of the funds from Representative Visclosky for 100 South? I just kind of think, especially in light of the Council meeting, Whitten is the one on there, don’t you think we could approve that?” Com. Harper, “We had 22 roads with water on them that day. I have a list of them, in the county, okay?” Com. Evans, “But that’s one we have the funding given to us except we could …(inaudible)..” Com. Harper, “But, John, have you driven over and looked at what it looks like in Lake County? I mean…” Com. Evans, “I don’t want to do that but I think we need to make it safe. I think we need to get the ditch drained and to ….” Com. Harper, “And they are taking care of that drain. They want to spend, they want to.. we had 22 roads that have water all over them from that day. They want to take us to spend $1.6 million of our highway budget for that stretch of road because they are determined to develop south Lake County and that’s only half the project. In fact, it wouldn’t even cover, the first part of the project doesn’t even cover that part over by Lake County.” Com. Evans, “I just want to make it safe because, you know, it’s that type of thing like we had today, to know that we had the ability to get some money in and we didn’t do it, we just have to make sure that we… (inaudible) and to try and keep the county as safe as possible transportation wise. The County Highway should be congratulated for their efforts on ___ Grove. They had a real problem out there with Wolf Lake and the bridge over that, the tunnel is collapsing, caving in, their foresight had an engineering program done a year ago and when a citizen called and said you guys need to get out here and look at that, they were out there within ten days now, they’ve re-engineered that whole bridge and made it safe for public transportation.” Com. Knoblock, “You talk about 100 South, there are a lot of other roads that are worse than 100 and they are unsafe but we can’t do them all. And if we do 100 then there’s going to be…” Com. Evans, “The only thing, my biggest concern is if we are given funding by another source, of course, specifically for a road, and we can’t use anywhere else rather than see it go back, I think we should do whatever we can.” Com. Harper, “Plus add $1.6 million to it of our own money. We had 26 roads with water on them.” Com. Knoblock, “I would like to see what (inaudible)….” Com. Harper, “We’ve got a… this is part of a command to open up south Porter County, so that is what it is.” Com. Evans moved to recess, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS PORTER COUNTY, INDIANA Robert P. Harper John A. Evans Carole M. Knoblock Attest: James K. Kopp, Auditor |
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May 15, 2007