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PORTER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS The regular meeting of the Porter County Board of Commissioners convened at 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday, April 3, 2007 in the Commissioners’ Chambers of the Administration Center. Those present were: Commissioners Robert Harper, John Evans and Carole Knoblock; County Attorney Gwenn Rinkenberger; Administrative Assistant Melissa Hartig; and Recording Secretary Vi Wagner.
President Harper called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Com. Knoblock moved to approve the payroll of April 2, 2007, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.
Com. Knoblock moved to approve the minutes of March 6 and March 20, 2007, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.
Com. Knoblock moved to approve the claims of March 27 and April 3, 2007, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.
Mr. Anton, “I appreciate you giving me the consideration due to scheduled conflicts. On May 1st, it’s the anniversary date of the county employee benefit plan’s group life insurance program. That’s the plan that currently provides $20,000.00 per employee coverage. The current carrier, Kansas City Life, has given us a rate increase of approximately 17% from 27 cents per thousand per month per employee to 32 cents. We secured another proposal from Guardian Life, which is an A-Rated Carrier, that would hold the rate at the current rate of 27 cents per thousand per month per employee. So that would result in a savings of approximately $7,000.00 to the county. So our recommendation is that you approve that change based on one caveat and that would be that we are compliant with the active labor work clause at the end of the month. That is a provision in all group life policies that at the time the policy goes into effect and everybody is at work other than those that would be on a scheduled vacation, we would just simply monitor that. If, at the time at the end of the month, sometime around April 28, 29, 30, we found ourselves in the situation that we could not be in compliance for whatever reason, then we would have to revert back, and on with the Kansas City Life proposal that is on the table in a renewal basis.” Com. Harper, “The new proposal is from who?” Mr. Anton, “Guardian Life.” Com. Harper, “So your recommendation is we do a motion tonight to accept the bid, go with Guardian Life on the health insurance,…” Mr. Anton, “No, life insurance.” Com. Harper, “I’m sorry, life insurance, with the stipulation that if at the end of the month we can go with them, in other words, if we have everyone at work, no one is off for disability or anything, we go with them, but if at the end of the month we can’t be in compliance with their contract, then we stay with the Kansas City Life.” Mr. Anton, “Correct.” Com. Harper, “Do I hear a motion to that effect?” Com. Evans moved to approve the proposal if we are in compliance to go with Guardian Life or to stay with Kansas City Life if not in compliance at the end of April, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Mr. Anton, “We will monitor this very closely.” Com. Harper, “All right. Do you have anything else tonight?” Mr. Anton, “No, I don’t. Thank you.”
Com. Harper, “I am going to take something because it is going to be quick and that is a request for approval from the Valparaiso Triathlon. Is there anyone here on that? On July 14, 2007?” Ms. Hartig, “I called the Valparaiso Parks Department and Dan McGuire, the race director, is out of town so he couldn’t be here to present this to you.” Com. Harper, “Do we want to do it then? We’ve done it before. Do you want to do it with the stipulation that they coordinate it with the Sheriff’s Department?” Com. Evans moved to approve with the stipulation that the Sheriff’s Department be involved and also that the appropriate insurance is in force, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.
Atty. Lane, “I just wanted to update where we are at with things right now. As we discussed last time you had some issues with the way the yard had been kept and they have done extensive clean ups of the property. They’ve removed two vehicles, all the vehicles that are there are plated. I also have a letter, although I only have one copy since I just received it tonight so I will just read it. It is from Jamie Estill, who is the neighbor directly to the south of them. It states, “In regard to the Lovall’s request to vacate the east frontage property, I withdraw my complaint as they have made efforts to improve the condition of their property. The Lovall’s have assured me they will continue efforts to improve housekeeping. We will not have any issues if this continues to be the trend. And it is signed by Jamie Estill.” Com. Harper, “Thank you. Do you have anything else to present?”
Atty. Lane, “No.” Atty. Lane, “That’s fine.” Com. Harper, “Other than that, what it the pleasure?” Com. Evans moved to approve the vacation, Com. Harper, “Do I have a second?” Com. Knoblock, “To approve it?” Com. Harper, “To approve it.” Com. Knoblock, “Our engineer didn’t think it was…” Com Harper, “I know, but go ahead, Carole.” Atty. Lane, “If I could comment on that briefly. I spoke to him and he said at the time he was not aware of the fact that that actually had been vacated, all of those properties on that section. When he was looking at that, he was thinking that was actually the road and it wasn’t the vacated section.” Com. Harper, “When did you have that conversation with him?” Com. Evans, “He did sent out an additional memo that said he hadn’t had an opportunity to really go out there and physically look and he was basing that on previous vacation requests.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Here is what it says, he sent it today, April 3, 2:29, I am opposed to the vacation petition by Christopher and Monica Lovall. Enclosed is the memo I just faxed to you and the February 20th memo. I was told that there were other vacations on this road. The closest one is 470 feet to the south and immaterial. This area is hilly and I believe the county should not tie our own hands for possible needed future use. That’s what Dave says, that’s from Highway, that’s today.” Com. Evans, “I don’t think he quite understands the geography.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Well, I don’t know what he understands, but that is his memo.” Atty. Lane, “My conversation was actually several weeks ago and I thought that it was probably almost six weeks ago when I had the conversation with him and at that time he said he didn’t recognize that. I didn’t go over with him because I didn’t realize it was still an issue based on the conversation we had. He said he hadn’t looked at it, he didn’t realize the other roads had been vacated and based on what he is saying, my impression is at this point, that he saw all of the vacations and I can pull up the ordinances showing that the vacations have occurred, that would not be an issue.”
Atty. Rinkenberger, “I guess he wrote a letter, too, and the letter reads, and I don’t know if everybody got it. “On March 5, Lee Lane told me there were other vacations on the road that is in question now. The closest vacation is 470 feet to the south and half the width of the present request. Previous vacation was only 15 feet in width and does not affect the present request and does not change my opinion that the Commissioners should not vacate this road. Please refer to my February 20th memo. Enclosed is the plat of this area with previous vacations at the bottom of the page. Also noticed in my previous memo.” Com. Evans, “All this has already been vacated. All this. The only piece that has not is the piece they are asking for.” Com. Harper, “I just, then, why is Schelling saying that?” Com. Evans, “I have no idea.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Also enclosed is my previous memo. I believe this right of way is important to the county and our citizens. Please do not grant the vacation request.” (Letter from Highway Engineer, David Schelling.) And then this is the plat and it shows the previous vacation. This is 470 feet and this is the proposed vacation.” Com. Harper, “All right. John, let’s just, well, I feel better just to go two weeks and continue it and get him up here and show him this, okay? To just make sure. I don’t want to make a mistake.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “For some reason, he believes there is 470 feet here and this is the last one for 15 feet. Now, why, I don’t know. And this is the 30 foot right of way, this is a 15 footer and not a 30..” Com. Evans, “This is a road, this is a road, this is the property they are talking about. All this has been vacated already. There’s no way …” Atty. Lane, “I have copies of some of the ordinances showing here the vacation of that section.” Com. Harper, “All right, Carole seconds it.” Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “Thank you, having your clients available. I understand and I saw that before, and that’s when I thought, and then I get these emails and you know.” OFFICE HOLDERS/DEPARTMENT HEADS
Open bids for Liquid Bituminous Com. Harper, “The next thing on the schedule is Al Hoagland, going to open bids tonight. What are we opening bids on, Al?” Mr. Hoagland, “Liquid bituminous.” Com. Harper, “And that’s all? Do we only have one bid?” Ms. Hartig, “No, two.” Com. Harper, “This is from Bit Mat Products, is that correct? For 80-90 is 40 to 60 gallon truckloads, 1-364, less than 4,000 gallons, $1.45, pick up at South Bend, $1.30. And what is the other one? AEP, 4 to 6,000 gallon truckloads, $2.564, less than 4,000 gallons, $2.65, pick up at South Bend, $2.50. Sed-Materials, is that correct? Point A is .922 and AE90 is $1.262 delivered. So you will have those available for people to look over if they want to tonight, if anyone is interested. We’ll put you back on the agenda for two weeks for your recommendations. Anything else? All right, John Thorstad.”
Approval of Amendment to Fee Schedule Mr. Thorstad, “I presented a policy statement during our last audit from the State Board of Accounts. They had suggested that we have some type of policy stating that whenever we waiver from the stipulated schedule of fees. I think it has been the practice unofficially in the past to grant some areas, complimentary items or reduced items, especially non profit groups. I’ve taken the position we are also in a business and we have to compete, we’ve got to be able to compete on the market the way it is listed and it might mean to bid on items, or bid on projects that somebody wants to do at the Expo or anywhere, I won’t say go out and steal events from other places, but we should be able to be at least in a fair and competitive market. This gives me that.” Com. Harper, “Do we have any discussion here?” Mr. Thorstad, “I tried to make it as brief as possible.” Com. Evans, “I think it is a good idea.” Com. Evans moved to approve the fee schedule, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. ASSEMBLE A STUDY COMMITTEE FOR EXPO CENTER SERVICES Com. Harper, “While you are here, and I’ve discussed this with you and I think I’ve talked to both John and Carole, but you know we have that continuing market going on in Porter County with the various banquet facility halls opening up and also we have the issue of some of our buildings getting older, they are still in decent shape, but you know, we are competing with different people for our services, and I would like to do a study, not because it is a problem this year, but it could become a problem in future years, to take a look at our income potential, where we think we are going to be, because the Council has always been concerned that the Expo Center take care of itself and further, if there is some possibility of joining activities or joint ventures with some agencies in the county. So, and as I discussed with you, I would like to appoint a board headed up by former commissioner Brian Gesse, and have Brian Schaefer from the Opera House, yourself, Lorelei Weimer, and Matt Murphy from the Council, and I have talked to all those people and they are all willing to serve and have Brian head it up and in fact, have him be responsible for contacting everybody and setting up the meetings and so forth.” Mr. Thorstad, “I think it is an excellent idea.” Com. Harper, “Does anyone have a problem or could I have a motion to that effect that we set up that study committee?” Com. Evans moved to approve a study committee be set up for Expo Center services, Com. Evans, “I think it will be a good resource for county government and for many other directions it will take.” Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “Melissa, let’s let everybody know but I will try and get a statement out to them too, so they know. John, that was your only request, right? That contract to give you the ability to negotiate some of those fees. Correct? Okay. Sheriff, Dave, is anyone with you tonight?” Sheriff Lain, “No.” Com. Harper, “You know what, I think we are going to take a break about hopefully about 6:30 for a little bit. Are you going to be around?” Sheriff Lain, “I can be.” Com. Harper, “Because Melissa wants to talk to you for a few minutes about a housekeeping matter.” Sheriff Lain, “We spoke briefly.” Ms. Hartig, “There is one other thing.”
Approval of amendment to the Inmate Health Services Agreements Com. Harper, “Have you gone over this contract?” Atty. Rinkenberger, ‘What’s the difference?” Sheriff Lain, “The difference is essentially, this is the medical services contract from events, the difference is we have raised our face population that we are serving. In other words, the old contract called for a base of 300 inmates served at a set price, and then there would be a dollar surcharge over and above that per head. What we have done is because we have actually experienced more than that baseline, we have raised that base to 350 from 300 but the actual experience, because of the efficiency of our nursing staff, they have actually lowered our per head cost to I think it is fifty three cents from the dollar.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “What did they give us for medical services under this contract?” Sheriff Lain, “They cover a lot of, well, the most important component of that is the doctor. Beyond that, they provide training issues, they provided procedural issues.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Who’s the doctor? Is the same doctor going to stay or do they send different doctors?” Sheriff Lain, “No, we have experienced a couple different physicians since signing on but it’s essentially the same doctor over a long period of time.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Have you had any issues with the services?” Sheriff Lain, “Nope. They’ve reduced our costs. The most significant issue that we’ve seen as far as cost savings, because of the protocols they have in place, because of the services rendered, we’ve reduced the number of inmates that actually have had to be transported for medical care to the emergency room. We’ve been able to handle many more issues inside the jail.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “The term is for three years but it says that either party can give thirty days, does that mean that we are bound to 2010?” Sheriff Lain, “No, it’s always a 30 day out. We’re not bound for the entire term.” Com. Knoblock, “It says for one year. Is that what that means?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “What it actually says is it is a three year contract and after that it automatically renews on successive one year terms unless there’s a thirty day notice, which makes me wonder if we can’t get out of this for three years.” Com. Harper, “We have a thirty day notice?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Well, because of the way this reads it says the first term is from 2007 to 2010, then after that term is up, it automatically renews annually and that’s when you can do the thirty day. That’s how it reads.” Sheriff Lain, “Our understanding is that it is as much as the, I would have to look at the old contract to see. I didn’t think the wording has changed.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “It’s okay because when we negotiated this I thought originally, do we still have those terms, section 4.2 talks about termination. Termination for lack of appropriation, termination for cause, termination without cause. So we can terminate whenever we want which we should be able to do, it’s like a lawyer, if you don’t like them, they’re gone.” Com. Harper, “Now wait a minute.” Com. Knoblock, “Then we shouldn’t put it in there for three years, we might as well leave it at one.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Is there a reason you wanted it?” Sheriff Lain, “I think they are looking for stipulating, and I really don’t have a problem, as long as we’ve got that safety net.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “You’ve got that power to terminate with or without cause at any time any way.” Sheriff Lain, “Sure. They just want to be able to know that we’re not going to jump ship.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “And does this come out of your budget because this is a wad of money.” Sheriff Lain, “That’s been coming out of our budget unless you are making us an offer.” Com. Harper, “She’s not making an offer.” Sheriff Lain, “Okay, just checking.” Com. Evans, “Is it still a LaPorte County physician?” Com. Harper, “Oh, I don’t think so, is it?” Sheriff Lain, “To be honest, Commissioner, I am not sure where the doctor is from.” Com. Harper, “Not the guy they had a couple years ago?” Sheriff Lain, “No.” Com. Harper, “I thought that was the question you asked.” Com. Evans moved to approve the contract, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “Okay, Jim Kopp for the approval of two agreements.”
Approval of agreement with Malinowski Consulting Mr. Kopp, “I have Charles Malinowski with me from Malinowski and Associates and he is going to give you a blurb on his contract. Essentially what he does is we get reimbursed for dollars spent from the federal government for several things and it cost money to get it but we get $125-150,000.00 dollars back from what we spend.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “This was Maximus before, right?” Mr. Kopp, “Yes, it was Maximus before.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “And every year they had a question, what do we do? So here he is.” Charles Malinowski, “Yes, thank you for having me tonight and to exactly go to that point. I was a 22 year employee with David M. Griffith and Associates, Maximus, and one of the things that at the time we had a monopoly on the business, so there wasn’t a great desire to go and do what I’m doing right now. Why do you do the cost allocation plan? The only reason that Porter County and the other 91 counties in Indiana prepared the cost allocation plan is to get reimbursed costs that support federal programs within the county. Essentially, those two programs are child support enforcement, title 4-D, that runs through the Clerk’s office, Prosecutor’s office and the Courts and County Welfare. County Welfare is basically the county auditor and the county treasurer’s time spent processing the checks to the recipients of the welfare. So the cost allocation is $120-150,000.00 a year that you get back. It comes back unrestricted and that’s reimbursing the cost of the Auditor’s office, Treasurer’s office, building operations, liability insurance, things that are also picked up. Security, if the Sheriff’s Department provides security for the Courthouse, that staff is included. And ultimately get charged back to those particular programs.” Com. Harper, “How much do we usually recoup a year?” Mr. Kopp, “125 to 150,000.00.” Com. Harper, “Any questions?” Com. Evans, “And how much do we pay you to do this?” Mr. Malinowski, “In the past you were, let me give this handout, in the past your fee with Maximus was $15,750.00. That was based on population across the state. I believe that they do have a new proposal, it’s a lower fee than that, but what I am proposing is a one and a three year agreement that discounts the fee 40 or 43%, so right off the top there is a significant discount in the fee that I am proposing. The differences between the contracts, the Maximus contract has a contingency and the federal government doesn’t allow for contingent fees charged back to their programs. They’ll pay for professional fees that are fixed, but that are not contingent on the recoveries to the county. So, there is no exorbitent fees that’s being paid to some carpet bagging consultant, that’s their thought. Now, the Maximus fee is capped and was capped at the $15,750.00. By changing the term and the agreement that I am proposing with the County, it allows about 64% of my fee to be reimbursed through the plan of future years. So, where you were paying $15,750.00, now we are down to 30, your net cost is about either 34 or 3,200 dollars a year in round numbers. The change in the agreement is certainly to the benefit of the County because you will continue to get in excess of $100,000.00 a year for indirect costs. So, your investment in the consulting services certainly is paid back. This is a way to make sure even those general fund expenses or the professional fee, you’re getting two-thirds of those back.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Do you have a pending contract with Maximus?” Mr. Kopp, “Maximus is done this year.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “They’re done?” Mr. Kopp, “Yes. They just finished this last year and Jim Ruge and I discussed it and we prefer to go this way.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “I know but I was just curios to see if we had a current contract pending terms.” Mr. Kopp, “Well, it’s a three year term contract that’s expired when they get done with what they are doing now.” Ms. Hartig, “It expired at the end of last year.” Com. Harper, “Is it for one year or three years?” Mr. Kopp, “Three years.”
Com. Harper, “Any further discussion?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “No.” Com. Evans moved to accept the recommendation for Malinowski Consulting, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.
Com. Harper, “You’ve got another contract tonight?” Mr. Kopp, “Right. That’s for the tax sale, it’s been done at $60.00 per sale and they are raising the rate to $65.00 and they’ve been doing it for several years from what I understand.” Com. Harper, “Do I hear a motion or do I hear any questions?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Is that SRI, do we have a master agreement or do you have an amendment to it that gives the new work plan for 2007 and their rates have gone up because of the recent Indiana Supreme Court ruling ….” Mr. Kopp, “There’s several things, yes.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “That requires more stringent notice.” Com. Evans, “You’re happy with the contract?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “I am.” Com. Evans, “How many sales do you plan on holding this year?” Mr. Kopp, “I have no idea.” Com. Evans moved to accept the contract with SRI, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Com. Harper, “Jim, I am just letting you know Sharon is here; we’ve gotten several faxes and various things about the assessor’s not being able to do their work, the township assessors, these last three weeks, so she is just giving me a report at the end of this meeting just so you know, or if you have anything to add.” Mr. Kopp, “I’ve got a few minutes, I’ll stay.”
Petition to Vacate an unimproved road right of way located in the First Addition to Roble Woods-Petitioners Christopher and Monica Lovall Com. Harper, “Very good. Before I do anything further, let me ask Mr. Thompson because I know he left a . . .” Atty. Rinkenberger, “Very important prior engagement.” Com. Harper, “With his family. What time was that set for tonight, Bob?” Mr. Thompson, “I always announce it at the Plan Commission.” Com. Harper, “I apologize for you coming down here because I know you were tied up and I apologize but I just thought we needed to be prepared.” Mr. Thompson, “The ladies’ soccer team is ready to take my cell phone and throw it as far away from me as they could because of the number of phone calls I get. I always announce because I never know when these are going to get started with the Commissioners because sometimes they are done at 6:15, sometimes it’s at 7:00, sometimes it’s 6:30 so we always announce it at the Plan Commission, the date and that the Commissioners’ meeting starts at 6:00. We do state Plan Commission business is usually at the end of the meeting but we don’t know when that is going to be, so we always do state that the Commissioners’ meeting is at 6:00 and we do not know when this is going to get started. I will say that this particular development group that did come in front, the petition was Fusion Group. The development group, and they did catch me immediately after the Plan Commission meeting and was asking how they could withdraw this petition, I did tell them that. However, looking at the file I did not see where we had received a withdrawal letter unless it is addressed to me and has been in my mailbox because I was off all last week and I haven’t been in the office the past two days.” Com. Harper, “So have you announced a public meeting for tonight?” Mr. Thompson, “We always tell Melissa with the schedule when it’s coming up so that way it’s posted on the agenda.” Com. Harper, “Was it posted as a public meeting tonight?” Ms. Hartig, “It’s posted under Plan Commission business, the usual.” Mr. Thompson, “As I said we always announce whenever the first reading is and we always tell them at Plan Commission that the Commissioners have the ultimate decision and it is the second public hearing.” Com. Harper, “So what do we usually do when no one comes?” Mr. Thompson, “I believe there are two options, either one they forgot or two, they had a pretty clear vision, in my opinion, of the recommendation of the Plan Commission, to let you know the Commissioners are up front with this recommendation of denial on this.” Com. Evans, “We still have to do a public hearing.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “From a legal standpoint, we need to know whether or not it’s been withdrawn. If it has not been withdrawn and somebody is confused on the notice, we should continue this to the next meeting and say public hearing.” Mr. Thompson, “I can have somebody contact from the staff and ask them what their intentions were and find out if they did forget or if their intention was to withdraw. If their intention is to withdraw, I told them they had to write me a letter and to formally request to withdraw so that way it’s in the file.” Com. Harper, “Do I hear a motion?” Com. Evans, “Yes, if it’s in his mailbox, they may have already done that. I don’t think we should be careless and not give them the opportunity.” Com. Evans moved to postpone the request until the next scheduled meeting, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.
Approval of contract with Manatron Com. Harper, “Candy Crone from the Westchester Township Assessor’s office for approval of a contract. We are also going to have a little discussion later and I hope you are going to stay for that. I mean you don’t have to stay for it if you don’t want to. We are just going to try and get an update on what’s going on. Have you gone over the contract? The contract is for..?” Ms. Crone, “Commercial data collection. I’ve had this gentleman do mine for two years and he doesn’t mind going out to the mills and he does an excellent job so I would like to have him again.” Com. Harper, “Do I hear a motion or do I hear any questions?” Com. Evans, “Who’s the contract with?” Ms. Crone, “The contract is with Manatron, but Scott Thomas is the same gentleman that does it every year who works for Manatron.” Com. Evans, “And you are satisfied with this?” Ms. Crone, “Yes, what he turns in is excellent, very neat, and he’s very professional.” Com. Evans moved to approve the recommendation, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. COMMISSIONERS’ REPORTS South District: 1. Fieldstone Manor Subdivision, Phases I, II, III, & IV, Performance Letter of Credit #00872, from Centier Bank, in the amount of $25,500.00. Expiration date is March 15, 2008. Recommend approval. Com. Knoblock moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. CORRESPONDENCE
Weights and Measurers monthly report for January-March 2007 is on file. Approval of Official Bond for John A. Evans, Commissioners in the amount of $300,000.00 Com. Knoblock moved to approve the bond, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried. Approval of Official Bond for David James, Highway Department in the amount of $8,500.00 Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.
Approval of Official Bond for Jamie Uzelac, Secretary, Porter County Engineering Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Approval of maintenance agreement with Indiana Mailing Systems for mail machine and scale at the Courthouse in the amount of $890.00 Com. Harper, “We have another one, should I do both of them?”
Com. Evans, “Go ahead.” Com. Evans moved to approve both agreements, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Approval of Animal Shelter Services Contract with city of Valparaiso for 2007 in the amount of $20,150.00 Com. Knoblock moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. Approval for Valparaiso Community Festivals and Events to use the courthouse grounds for the following events in 2007:
May through October for the Farmer’s Market Com. Knoblock moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried. Request for use of State Road 130 for Soap Box Derby on June 23, 2007. The state of Indiana is requiring signatures of county and city officials Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Approval by Valparaiso Elks Lodge #500 to hold annual Flag Day ceremony on the Courthouse square on June 14, 2007 Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. Approval for Porter County Triad to hold national “Take a Stand Against Alzheimer’s Disease” on Courthouse grounds on June 16, 2007 from 10:00 am to 2:00 pm Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.
Com. Harper, “All right, you know what, Dave, this is going to take a little longer. I will just call you tomorrow if you have another place to go. I know you are waiting around here. We’ve got a ways to go yet. All right. She’ll call you tomorrow. There are several things I want to bring up here at the end. First, I’ve been contacted by members of the Tourism Board, as many of you read, there was a bill in the Indiana legislature that was voted on the House which deleted, apparently the Lake County Tourism Bureau had powers of eminent domain and obviously power to spend money, and it deleted those provisions that limited them to Lake County alone and the Tourism Board would like us, and I think we should, pass a resolution encouraging our senators and representatives not to make sure, to be vigilant, that a bill is not passed through the Indiana Senate or House giving them the power of eminent domain to which they could use outside Lake County, especially, or you know, over here.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “I don’t think that is constitutional anyway. Even if they did pass it, we should be able to challenge it.” Com. Harper, “Well, I am just telling you. Do you feel strongly about that, Gwenn?” Atty. Rinkenberger, “I do. I don’t think that Lake County can exercise eminent domain in Porter County.” Com. Harper, “I understand that, but I am just telling you that the bill was there, the provisions were in it, their power had been limited to Lake County and that provision was stricken out of it and it was passed to the Indiana House, I understand, by 93 to 1.” Com. Evans, “What was their reading?” Com. Harper, “So, they would like to have a resolution and I think we should pass one.” Com. Evans, “I don’t have a problem. We appoint the Tourism people in our county and they’ve asked for this and I think the least we can do is support their intention to do a good job and they can’t obviously do a good job if somebody else is going to have the ability to have eminent domain over them. I do not disagree that it would be challenged but I do think we should support our Tourism Bureau in their efforts and if they have asked for this resolution, then by all means, I think we should make the effort.” Com. Harper, “Is that a motion?” Com. Evans, “Yes.” Com. Evans moved to approve the request, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried. ASSESSOR SOFTWARE PROBLEM DISCUSSION Com. Harper, “I’ve gotten some comments, calls from a couple Council members and other people and we received letters from some of the Assessors. Candy, would you mind speaking on behalf of the township assessors and just stating what the problem is that you guys are running into right at the present time? Or do you not want to do that? I know you weren’t on the agenda.” Ms. Crone, “Well, I can tell you what is happening and that is with all the other assessor’s offices, too. We were told that the numbers were going to be rolled on March 14th so we’ve been out of our assessor software since March 14th, it’s almost three weeks that we have not been able to get into our assessor software to do any work or any updates or any corrections on that. We were lucky enough to get our Form 11’s, which are Notices of Assessment printed out before that time. They went out yesterday, now we have people calling and coming in and we can’t get into our assessor software to do any kind of corrections or anything. It’s really putting us behind the eight ball because we are going to be very, very late, we can’t do our new construction, transfers, we can’t start on the work for next year. When push comes to shove, our neck’s going to be on the line. We are going to be late because we are not able to get into our assessor software. We’re not exactly sure what’s going on and I know that Sharon is trying to help as much as she can, but I don’t know how much control she has over it either. So, it’s just very frustrating and we really need to move forward and we need some help.” Com. Harper, “The reason I asked after I got these letters is because this was really called to my attention today and the reason I asked Sharon to be here is number one, I want everyone to understand what I understand and that is, we, you know, the Commissioners are in charge of IT, and Sharon’s in charge of that department and that department does not run any offices, all we do is try and make sure that whatever they’re working with, works, okay, because every elected official picks their software and how they are going to work it and their ways to work it. We don’t do that, okay. What we do is I happen to have Microsoft on my computer so if it breaks, they try to tell me what I need to do to fix it, they don’t say you put Microsoft on it. If I put something on that they can’t fix, that’s not their responsibility. If I decided to use Apple, and so on. I just wanted Sharon to update us because I know she has tried, she’s worked with the state, and she’s tried to work with us and let us know what she can do and what she’s been able to do on this problem. Maybe you could tell us why can’t they get into their software to work.” Ms. Lippens, “Originally, on March 14th I got a co-signed letter from Mr. Kopp and Mr. Scott saying they wanted to roll the values out from their software into the Auditor’s software. I began to do that and it is a process because of the way the Plexis software works, we had to break it up into six different computers, so you are running at six different times, so you get six different files. Then, I had to contact Plexis because when their program that exports that data out to be sent to the Auditor’s system, there are no totals, so you have no way to insure that that is the total assessed value that the Assessor is certifying to the Auditor. So, they were able to give me a program that could run to give you totals so I could compare to make sure that everything balanced. It did not balance. 13 of the 29 units did not match the individual parcels of land information did not match what the totals were supposed to be so that was the first stumbling block.” Com. Harper, “Why?” Ms. Lippens, “Some of the problems were, there had been changes in annexations where the state, the state has an ID for each of our taxing districts and we have a taxing unit ID as well. They’re not the same. And some of the records had been annexed, say from Washington Township to Washington Valpo. The taxing district had been changed from 04, which is Washington Township to 29 which is Washington Valpo, but the state ID had not been changed, it still said Washington Township. So, you end up with a mismatch of it can’t be in two places at once. The totals come out by state district, the detail comes out by taxing unit, so those were identified, still didn’t balance. Then we couldn’t figure out why so it ended up being a parcel by parcel look up, every single parcel had to be looked at and what we found was quite a few records that had negatives in them, which obviously a property can’t have a negative value. So, we brought that to the attention of Manatron and they were unable to fix the problem except to come up with a method for the Assessor’s to manually override it. They had to put in a fictitious number at the beginning so that the incorrect calculation would come out with the right number and not a negative. So, all of those items were related to the respective townships which, the negative items would have had nothing to do with the Assessors inputting anything correctly, it was just a problem with the software that Chris Sager, who is our contact with Manatron said he was unable to correct.” Com. Evans, “Manatron or Plexis?” Ms. Lippens, “Manatron. Chris Sager originally worked for Plexis and when Plexis was acquired by Manatron, Chris went and became an employee of Manatron.” Atty. Rinkenberger, “And Plexis is Manatron now, there is no Plexis.” Ms. Lippens, “Right. They still call the software Plexis. The other properties could have been… all this information was passed through the County Assessor’s office, they distribute it to the townships to make the corrections, those corrections were made.” Com. Harper, “How long ago was that?” Ms. Lippens, “I believe it was last week?” Com. Harper, “Is that when it was done?” Ms. Crone, “That’s right.” Ms. Lippens, “I have an email from Chris from the 26th of March where he came up with this alternative method to take care of these negatives. Then we, well, we had noticed at the beginning that we were trying to take one problem at a time. The other problem is that according to the state, all assessed values are supposed to be rounded to the nearest 100 and in all, in 22 of the 29 units, that did not occur. So I started looking into that and what had happened was in years’ past if an assessor had say a shed on a property, and that was coming out at $5,000.00, and they said there’s no way this thing is worth $5,000.00, they could over ride it and do what they call a flat value and just say it’s only worth 200 bucks because it’s ready to fall down. They would put that 200 in and it would just stay there. When the trending was done this last year, the trending applied to that value which then caused it to be say, 287. Because the software is set up so that when it is set in stone, a flat value, it is not supposed to touch it, so it didn’t round to the nearest 100. So, then the question became, should it have been trended? So, I was put in touch with someone by the state by Susie Villarreal at the time. I emailed, they said yes, the trending is to be applied to flat value and then it is to be rounded to the nearest hundred. So they emailed me that so I had confirmation, and I forwarded that to Chris Sager. He was very hesitant in thinking that the software would be able to be modified to accomplish that.” Com. Harper, “So what happened then?” Ms. Lippens, “That’s where we are today.” Com. Harper, “So he is telling you the software can’t do that.” Ms. Lippens, “Correct. I did speak with a former employee of Plexis who used to be our contact just to ask their opinion because Chris Sager was not available today and he concurred the same, that those are formulas that are in the software, they cannot be changed unless someone from Manatron were to be able to change it in the source code which they don’t have anybody that’s supporting the product. So, where we go from there, I don’t know. I’ve been told to contact Chris tomorrow and it would be worked out. There’s nothing more that I can do from Porter County’s standpoint. The data that is coming over is incorrect.” Com. Harper, “Okay, Jim, would you like to add anything to that?” Mr. Kopp, “Well, we have to get accurate data and we had a meeting yesterday, several of the pieces being rolled and different data than we have in the Auditor’s office, I am of the understanding from what I was told this morning that it would be fixed by next Tuesday or Wednesday. But I would guess if I had to pick a date, the earliest we are going to roll is April 16 or 17. We’re killing ourselves.” Com. Harper, “This is a software problem? Okay. It exists in the software there and we don’t have and that software does not provide support.” Mr. Kopp, “The software doesn’t support it, we’ve got to get rid of it. It’s that simple, if they are not going to support it, you can’t use it.” Com. Harper, “Okay, but that wouldn’t even solve this problem, would it? Even getting rid of it wouldn’t solve this problem.” Mr. Kopp, “We’ve got to do something.” Com. Harper “I asked Sharon this, and Sharon at my request called another source to try and find someone tonight that’s why she found that person, so apparently I am being told that even money can’t solve this problem. There’s no one,…” Mr. Kopp, “They are not supporting the product and I don’t know if they are still on the payroll or not, but apparently they don’t, so, if you can’t go in and change the code, so we are stuck.” Ms. Lippens, “Manatron has the source code but they have no programmers on staff that understand the language that it’s written in. Now, they could probably hire someone to come in to correct it so it could be corrected. But we can’t correct it from our end and Manatron’s stand is that they are not going to modify the program.” Com. Harper, “Just so we get this all straight. Have you heard anything here tonight that you think is incorrect?” Ms. Crone, “That’s incorrect? No.” Com. Harper, “All right. I just want to make sure.” Ms. Crone, “As far as I know it is correct.” Com. Harper, “This is a software problem that exists with this program that we have had for how many years? How many years have we had this Manatron and Plexis?” Ms. Lippens, “Four, I think.” Ms. Crone, “It’s just since the reassessment.” Ms. Lippens, “Yes, this would be the fifth year.” Com. Harper, “So this is a problem. So even if everybody switched today, it wouldn’t solve this problem? This problem right now that we are dealing with.” Ms. Lippens, “I have no idea because if it’s a computation in the program and the beginning data is correct, if you moved it into another piece of software, it could be corrected, but if we’re not working with a product that is supported, I am not sure how we would get the data forwarded somewhere else.” Com. Harper, “Here’s what I think, okay. I understand each department is responsible for what goes on in their department and their software and so forth, but I would like for you to at least check tomorrow and see, just so we can make suggestions, if there’s anybody that you can talk to that might have a suggestion of what we could do and then we can do to different department heads and talk to them and see if there is something we could do. Because let’s say there is nothing we can do. Let’s go right there, let’s say there is nothing you could find out we could do. What are they going to do?” Ms. Lippens, “There’s one option that can be done and all of the records affected have been identified.” Com. Harper, “And how many is that?” Ms. Lippens, “Several thousand.” Com. Harper, “Okay.” Ms. Lippens, “The Assessors could, and correct me if I am wrong, Candy, the Assessors could go in to each of those records that are affected, remove the trending factor, or the factor that is causing that and they could override to whatever the value is supposed to be. So let’s say if it was 200, it got trended to 278, which should round to 300, they could go in and take the trending factor off and put 300 in.” Com. Harper, “What kind of time frame would that be?”
Ms. Crone, “It depends on how many there are, how many employees each township might have available to do that. Some only have one, and maybe a part time deputy, but it just depends on how many each township has. If there’s thousands…” Ms. Lippens, “What’s the first part of that?” Com. Evans, “I appreciate your updates, and I think that through this whole process for the last years and years and years you have been the only source we can turn to that really puts the handle on this and kind of explains what’s going on. All we get most of the time and I know what the Council gets is this, everybody’s doing this and blaming everybody else. But, I’ve really got a hard time that we pull fictitious numbers and we put them into a computer and then we have to round everything to make this thing, I mean, what kind of bank does that give anyone, and what the hell is going on here? I mean, it’s ludicrous.” Ms. Lippens, “I agree.” Com. Evans, “We need to get a system that makes this thing work. And I think it is out there, I think it’s been presented, and I think we need to encourage those departments that use it to get off the square and let’s pick one. And let’s put this thing over, I mean if it’s got to go back to square one and start from square one, then let’s do it and let’s get it done and let’s get it done right this time. This is silly.” Ms. Lippens, “Whatever that is as long as it’s afforded. That’s the first part, the second part, this is just real estate we are speaking about. Personal property also has issues that Jim and I have spoken about. We met yesterday. That’s a new program that was used for the first time this year which is not Manatron. It was bought from a company called AS2. That data, and I had not looked at that data until last Friday because all of my efforts were concentrated on the real estate. As of last Friday, we identified several issues with that data as well, one of them being the addressing. It’s hard to explain, but their address is one big long address but anybody can fill in anyway they want. All address is broken down by street name, direction, excuse me, street number, street direction and street suffix, that way you can sort on any of them. It’s very difficult to take a long field that’s free form typed, that anybody could type in, if it’s a county road they could type in the word south or s period, or just s, some of them put CO Rd, some don’t. It’s hard to break that down and bring it into our system. So, we identified some alternatives to at least get some information in there, modify the existing programs to try and print it the best we can but there’s still going to be lost data. Some of that lost data is going to be very important to getting the mail properly, like suite numbers, apartment numbers, things like that so there may be need to be some changes made from the assessor’s side there as well. In addition to that, there’s been some questions because about 25 % of those records already exists in the Auditor’s office, and they are basically updating that information with the current assessed value but the type code is changed. The type code identifies what type of personal property it is, is it a boat, is it business, is it personal, etcetera. That comes into play because the PTRC credit is different if it’s a business or it’s not a business and most of them are dealing with those two types, businesses and non businesses. And until those get resolved, you could be dramatically changing the amount of tax that is calculated for each of those properties. So, that was addressed yesterday but as of today we don’t have a resolution on that either.” Com. Harper, “Okay, do you think that is going to be resolved?” Ms. Lippens, “That may end up being a manual effort as well on either the Assessor’s or the Auditor’s office to identify them. My understanding was that when the state first implemented the separate PTRC credits for business and non business that the Assessors identified those properties. And the Auditor’s office made those changes as they were noted. Now that they are coming over different, some of them you can look at and obviously tell if it’s Jean’s Beauty Shop and it’s marked as individual, you know that it is incorrect. Or if it’s just somebody’s name from a motorcycle and it’s marked as a business, you know that’s incorrect. But if it’s already been identified on the Auditor’s side as one or the other and now it’s coming over differently I am not sure who is going to make that call.” Mr. Kopp, “I think they use a different coding when they program than our coding. You need the value to get the coding correct.” Com. Harper, “Can they do that?” Mr. Kopp, “That’s what they’re supposed to be working on.” Com. Harper, “Thank you.” Com. Evans, “Is the discount still available or did Madison County beat us out of the other software?” Ms. Lippens, “You know what, I don’t know. I have not heard so I assume so. I did get a call from the salesman that we talked with today, but I don’t know if that might not have been the result of a call he received after the tax meeting today.” Com. Harper, “Thank you.” Mr. Kopp, “I think we’re locked in. I sent them a letter of intent (inaudible)….. go to the Council to get the money that you guys appropriated … we got this.” Com. Harper, “Any other questions, John, Carole? Do we have anyone that wants to make a statement before the meeting closes?” PORTER HOSPITAL SALE DISCUSSION Com. Evans, “I just want to weigh in on the hospital issue. First of all, I want to thank those people that participated on that task force committee that worked hard. Commissioner Harper and I had a little adversary time about that but it was both of us wanting to do the right thing and I think that needs to continue with the rest of the process that the hospital has to go through. We argued about who is going to be on the committee or who would give that committee the most time and obviously he did and he did a fine job and I think now is the time that everybody needs to look at the cooperation aspect of what’s happening with that funding. I think that that needs to be looked at second after the sale is completed. In any type of venture like this time is obviously money and business transactions in the multi-million dollars obviously melt down quick with the principle and interest. I think that we need to preserve the principle at all costs in whatever endeavor the money is put toward. I personally think that the money that was spent by the county back in the ‘30’s was spent for healthcare, was never in anyone’s intention that it would be repaid. You know, look at all the things we spent money for way back when that have never had any intention of being repaid that never worked, the County Home for instance, comes to mind and it doesn’t even exist anymore. What took it’s place was Porter Starke and we don’t even fund them and I think that is something that has to be looked at as well. And that’s a venue in the health care industry as well as it should be looked at. There are people out there that have different opinions. I think all those opinions need to be heard and a fair judgment made, whether it’s called as we said a few minutes ago, what’s in a name, one is called a foundation, or I’d prefer the Porter County Health Commission and the parameters be explained and the money be determined as to how it could be best used for health care in Porter County. That’s a very big need and something that’s never going to go away and if we lose the opportunity to put that money to good use if we forfeit any of the principle, I think we are in error. I think that the principle needs to be preserved in whatever fashion. There are going to be adjustments that come from Medicare, insurance companies and whatever down the road. Five years even down the road they could attach those funds. When they come back and say you owe us 2% of $200 million dollars, we better be able to come up with the money because it’s not something that it’s going to be if you have it, it’s going to be… and then so, who do we turn to if we used it all for paving roads, or whatever. So, the other thing, and I am just going to through this out there, if the money has to be divided up I think that the county yearly has a problem we just discussed today. We can’t get the tax bills out, we don’t get the appropriations to the municipalities, so everybody is sitting wondering what they are going to do, where the money is going to come from. The municipalities have to go out and borrow and the interest charges are killing everybody. So if a portion of the money has to be set aside because government says it has to come back to government, then let’s create the municipal fund where the cities and towns can borrow from us, borrow from the county with no interest and make sure it’s paid back like we do our Bridge Fund with Highway. If we borrow it this year, it has to be paid back by the end of this year, but the principle is always preserved. If the county needs to borrow money, if those things have to be done, they shouldn’t be at a cost for government. And if county government can help municipalities do that then I think it’s our obligation. But, saving $3.00 out of everybody’s pocket and paying off the jail, I don’t think that is a good idea. I think the money came from health care, and for the most part, should all go back to health care. But if it doesn’t go back to health care it needs to be divided so that none of the principle is every spent. That’s where I’m at.” Com. Harper, “Okay. Anybody else? Carole?” Com. Knoblock, “No.” Com. Harper, “Do I have a motion?” Com. Evans moved to recess, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
Robert P. Harper
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April 3, 2007