PORTER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2005
6:00 P.M.


The regular meeting of the Porter County Board of Commissioners convened at 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday, October 18, 2005, in the Commissioners’ Chambers of the Administration Center.

Those present were: Commissioners Robert Harper, John Evans, and Carole Knoblock, County Attorney Gwenn Rinkenberger, Melissa Hartig and Vi Wagner.

President Harper called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance.


APPROVAL OF PAYROLL

Com. Evans moved to approve the payroll of October 17, 2005, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.


APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Com. Evans moved to approve the minutes for October 4, 2005, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.


AMENDMENT TO EMPLOYEE PERSONNEL POLICY MANUAL, ETHICS, 2ND READING

Com. Harper, “Gwenn has made some of the changes that we discussed the last time.”

Com. Evans, “There’s no enforcement to this, though, is there?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “You can enforce it with all of your employees and all the elected officials can enforce it with their employees and the department heads can. The elected officials are on notice that if they are violating something the State Board of Accounts, or the Prosecutor could be responsible but we do not have jurisdiction over elected officials to discipline them or terminate them, because that is only through voters.”

Com. Harper, “This will be part of our policy handbook. I think that department heads and elected officials at the very least, pay some attention to this because it points out some of the problems that exist with the public administration and public office.”

Com. Knoblock moved to approve the Amendment to the Porter County Government Employee Personnel Policy Manual regarding ethics, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.


ORDINANCE ESTABLISHING A COUNTY I.D. SECURITY PROTECTION FEE AND FUND, 1ST READING

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Linda Trinkler could not be here but in August she sent a memo to the County Council and the Commissioners citing a state law, IC 36-2-7.5-6 that becomes effective January 2006 and it requires that any document that is recorded in the Recorder’s Office be accompanied by a State Board of Accounts form that indicates that a person recording the document has redacted the social security numbers on the documents unless they are otherwise required to be there by state or federal law and the state law states that a $2.00 fee will be charged for recording the form. And that the $2.00 fee shall go into a special fund created by the Commissioners to be used for five years by the Recorder’s Office to purchase the equipment they need to do the redacting and that it also provides that after commencing January of 2011, the $2.00 is supposed to go into the general fund. So I have prepared an ordinance that sets out the requirements for the state code and establishes a $2.00 fee and creates a fund called the County Identification Security Protection Fee Fund for the deposit of the $2.00 and restricts the use of the fund so it complies with state law and then it provides that commencing January 2011 the $2.00 starts going into the county general fund.”

Com. Evans, “We are going to charge people $2.00 so they don’t have to put their social security number on a document?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “We are charging $2.00 to assure that person recording the document redacts any social security numbers on the document. It’s a security fraud measure.”

Com. Evans, “I know, but how about if the people have something recorded, just don’t put their social security number on it? How about you just don’t record things with social security numbers on them?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “How about if you ask the state legislators Vic Heinhold and whoever else we have that writes state law? Those questions need to be directed to them. We are just complying with what they passed.”

Com. Evans, “Why don’t we just direct the Recorder not to record any documents that have social security numbers on them?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Because state law now says that the Commissioners have to pass an ordinance and create a fund and then we are going to charge a fee and it says what the fee will be used for. And if we don’t do it we are not going to be in compliance. If we are not in compliance, the state law says that the person recording the document is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor or infraction.”

Com. Harper, “Do I hear a motion?”

Com. Evans, “Not from me.”

Com. Knoblock, “I guess if it’s a state law.”

Com. Knoblock moved to approve the ordinance on first reading, Com Harper seconded, motion carried, with Com. Evans opposed.


SNOW REMOVAL DISCUSSION

Com. Harper, “This is for snow removal for the contract that we left for the ______. Charlotte is not here so I think we should put this over for a couple weeks. She wanted to revisit the person who is doing the work for us and the prices. I think she should be here to give us some direction on what she feels about these bids.”

Com. Evans, “I think she should take the bids and examine them and make a recommendation to us.”

Com Harper, “So lets ask her to do that.”

Com. Knoblock moved to refer the bids to Charlotte Miller,

Atty. Rinkenberger, “You should refer it to Charlotte Miller to review and come back with a recommendation at the next meeting.”

Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

Com. Evans, “How many were there?”

Com. Harper, “There were three.”


Al Hoagland, Highway Superintendent

Com. Evans, “Are these from your bids?”

Mr. Hoagland, “No, we haven’t let our bids yet. These are last years’ figures. What I am doing is just giving you a basic analysis of snow removal cost and these were costs that were incurred last November, December and January. You can see by the numbers that these are pretty expensive. And just to address my concern about the future service, sand slag has increased 15% in price; salt 17%; calcium chloride 4%; and fuel is my major concern with gas up 44% from last year and diesel at 38%. I write snowfall in three categories, briefly, a nuisance snow which is an inch or less, that if drivers use some caution, they can travel around in most areas. Then there is what we consider hazardous snow which is an inch or more, usually with some winds and drifting or any form of freezing rain, then number three is what we call debilitating snow and that is where everything is shut down, that is the major_____, where we have a hard time getting even our plows through to function, car travel is impossible. The only reason I bring this to your attention is we have a 5% cut in MBH funds from the state. So we are going to be looking to do more with less. I am sure if our service drops off the public will be aware of it and will notify you. I am not here to sound a panic alarm, I just wanted you to be aware of where our costs are at and we will do our best to face this winter and provide service as we always have. If funds come up short, we may have to take money from summer projects. I just wanted you to be aware of the cost increases. I will try and keep a running tab on how much things cost this year.”

Com. Harper, “Thank you.”


TOWER ASSIGNMENTS

Atty. Rinkenberger, “We have a number of towers in the county that we either rent or pay rent to put equipment on and we continue to get documents pertaining to them that needs board action. The first one is simply documents from Nextel that wanted us to verify the terms of the lease which I have verified and you can sign off saying that the verification and the account information is correct so I need a motion to approve the verification of the account information for Nextel.”

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Then we have a tower in Hebron and Vertical Real Estate was the sub-lessor and we are the sub-lessee and we pay $420 a month to put equipment on the tower and SBA is taking an assignment of Vertical Real Estate sublease and I am asking for a motion to approve the assignment.”

Com. Knoblock moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Then we have a tower by the Porter County Highway Garage where Vertical Real Estate is lessee and we are the lessor and they pay us monthly fees. SBA is going to take an assignment of Vertical Real Estate’s interest in that lease as well as the one that we make payments to them instead. So I need a motion to approve that assignment.”

Com. Knoblock moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

Atty. Rinkenberger, “I sent all these out to Dave Sheibels and he did a summary of all our towers and where they are located and a nice little color coded document showing who we pay and who pays us. I will give that to Melissa so we have a tower file and we will know what our payments are and who is making payments to us. We can track it.”


OFFICE HOLDERS/DEPARTMENT HEADS
Child Support Payments contract, Auditor’s office

Com. Harper, “The next thing on the agenda we have this agreement whereby we have a state statute between Porter County and the Indiana Child Support Bureau and it applies to anybody that has over 50 employees and one of which is getting child support.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “This is something the Auditor’s office asked us to approve and it requires no payment of any fee but there is a law that was passed that says that any employer with fifty or more employees and more than one Indiana child support case has to sign this agreement so that monies owed for child support by the employee can be electronically debited out of the employee’s account so the support payments are made.”

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.


COMMISSIONERS’ REPORTS

All Districts:

1. INDOT claim voucher reimbursing Porter County $4,221.54. This is for Porter County Bridge Inspection, Supplemental Agreement #1 (2005), Project #BR-NBIS (463). This is the last bill and reimbursement for the 2002 and 2004 Bridge Inspection Project with USI Consultants Inc. Recommend approval.

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Center District: Com. Harper

1. The Prairie Subdivision, Phase 1,Performance Letter of Credit #1002103 from Mercantile Bank in the amount of $22, 500.00. New expiration date is October 6, 2006. Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

2. Fox Burrow Subdivision, Unit 3, Performance Letter of Credit #994919 from Horizon Bank in the amount of $235,000.00. Expiration date is September 27, 2007. Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried

3. Fox Burrow Subdivision, Unit 4, Performance Letter of Credit #994920 from Horizon Bank in the amount of $55,600.00. Expiration date is September 27, 2007. Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried

4. Dedication of Right of Way and Utility Easement for Mystic Springs Subdivision by Northern Indiana Public Service Company. This dedicates approximately 0.22 acres of NIPSCO property that is platted as road right of way within Mystic Springs Subdivision. Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried

5. Windsor Park, Subdivision, Phase VI, Acceptance form and Maintenance Letter of Credit #513 from DeMotte State Bank in the amount of $27,000.00. Expiration date is October 12, 2007. Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried

Com. Harper, “We have a request from the Engineering Department. I think we should look this over and bring this up in two weeks to have a chance to discuss this.”

Com. Evans moved to hear the request from the Engineering Department in two weeks, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.


CORRESPONDENCE

Court Security Activity Report for September 2005 is on file.
Treasurer’s monthly report for September 2005 is on file.

Request for transfer of funds-Commissioners

Fund 01.30 $440 from 2110 office supplies
Into 4410 office equipment over $100

To purchase a desk calculator and reconditioned typewriter for Commissioners office

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Fund 01.30 $2,500 from 1110 Salaries
Into 1120 Hourly

To cover part time through the end of 2005

Fund 132.30 $10,000 from 4420 motor vehicles
Into 4540 other equipment

To purchase lawn mower for Maintenance and a currency scanner for Treasurer’s office (this machine would be available to any office that receives money)

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Request for transfer of funds—Expo Center

Fund 146.66 $9,725.37 from 3950 contractual
Into 1110 salaries

For changing Expo manager position from contractual to full time salaried. This figure is the unused balance of Lonnie Steele’s contract, (Oct., Nov., and Dec.)

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded,

Com. Harper, “Why are we doing that?”

Com. Evans “Because we terminated his contract when he terminated employment.”

Motion carried.


REQUEST FROM ANIMAL SHELTER TO PUT UP SIGN ON HIGHWAY 2

Com. Harper, “We have a request from the Animal Shelter to put up a sign on their Highway 2 property. It’s a four by eight sign touting the idea of animal adoption. It looks like a really nice sign. I asked Phil from Emergency Management to make sure there was no problem and he was to get back to me if there was any problem and he didn’t. I’d like to give them permission to put this sign up subject to them running it past the Highway Department to make sure there are no problems. They are probably going to have to talk to the Plan Commission to make sure they have permission. As far as I am concerned if they can get it over those _____ they can have the sign up.”

Com. Evans, “Is that property inside the city limits?”

David James, “Only on the north side of Highway 2.”

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.


BIO SOLIDS, INDUSTRIAL WASTE PRODUCTS

Com. Harper, “The other thing not on the agenda is the discussion over bio-solid industrial waste products being transferred from Valparaiso out to the country side and then the question of truck permits and so forth on these. I think there is a representative from city of Valpo and I think the Highway Department has done some work on this. Al, do you want to come up and have a sit and anyone from Valpo. Who is going to speak on this? Carole, you had gotten some calls or had some concerns about this, correct?”

Com. Knoblock, “I was out on 600 last night and they were putting the sludge on 600 and 650. I disapprove of this because I think it is hazardous to people’s health and the other thing is I asked the people if they had permits that were doing that and they said no, they didn’t. I have some questions.”

Com. Harper, “Why doesn’t everybody introduce themselves for the record.”

Mr. Schelling, “David Schelling, Porter County Engineer.”

Mr. Hoagland, “Al Hoagland, Highway Supervisor.”

Mr. Pilarski, “Ed Pilarski, Bio-solids Coordinator for the utility.”

Ted Merrel, “Merrel Brothers, the contractor doing the application.”

Com. Harper, “Is there anyone else from Valpo that wants to speak? Carole, you had some questions.”

Com. Knoblock, “Do you pay farmers to put this on their fields?”

Mr. Pilarski, “No, we do not.”

Com. Knoblock, “Do they pay you?”

Mr. Pilarski, “No. This material that we are land applying is a useable conditioned bio-solid. We do not pay the farmer for applying the material.”

Com. Knoblock, “Do you have a report on the water table?”

Mr. Pilarski, “Every time we land apply, we are required to monitor for the water table on each site. We have documents going back from 1994 when our program began land applying in Porter County.”

Com. Knoblock, “Can I see those?”

Mr. Pilarski, “If you can put that in writing.”

Com. Knoblock, “What would you do with the sludge if you didn’t put in the soil?”

Mr. Pilarski, “That is a hard question. I think one of the things that we would almost be required to do would be looking at land filling it. But, . . .”

Mr. Merrel, “My name is Ted Merrel from Merrel Brothers, the contractor. We operate all throughout the Midwest, we represent about 250 different municipalities in handling land application beneficial re-use programs. To address some of your earlier questions about bio-solid safety, bio-solid is the most ____ product by the Environmental Protection Agency. It is regulated through the Environmental Protection Agency and also IDEM. Currently Valparaiso operates under those _____ which is through the EPA and IDEM. Each of the applications is tested prior to application. As Ed mentioned there is no charge to the farmer, the farmer benefits from the nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium along with micro nutrients that are also present and zinc and copper.”

Mr. Pilarski, “Let me interject that we have saved our growers in Porter County approximately $600,000 over the past eleven years for this program in fertilizing costs alone.”

Com. Knoblock, “What about metals and also like hospitals, you know there is like AIDS and HIV or anything like that.”

Mr. Merrel, “Let me give you a quick synopsis of the risk assessment program that the Environmental Protection Agency does. In 1993, the EPA released what is called the 503 regulations. In promulgating those regulations, they took every potential constituent throughout the United States and ran them through what they call risk assessment evaluation. In doing that, they took each constituents and ran them through fourteen different pathways. You were referring to metals, let’s just take copper for instance. They took copper and ran it through the risk assessment pathways and determined fourteen different ways that copper could get from a municipality bio-solid to a human being. The pathways varied from land application, farmer raising corn, pigs eating the corn, humans eating the pigs all the way to being applied to the farm field and then a child ingesting a bio-solid soil mixture. All the pathways each of those constituents was ran through to determine at what level that constituent could be in order to not raise the red flag and cause a detriment to human health. Each of those constituents was narrowed down to define ____, they are required to be monitored by every municipality in the United States and those metals then have to be prepared to a sealing concentration. In other words, Valparaiso’s product has to be below a sealing concentration in order to qualify for land application as a Class B product. Theirs actually meets the standard to which would qualify for a Class A product.”

Mr. Pilarski, “That’s correct and I would also like to interject here that based on the analysis that we are required to do, it shows that it would take 86 years on those sites for us to even come close to that cumulative loading ____, that IDEM places on the utilities bio-solids. So you can imagine, it is like looking at grand standing as far as concentration.”

Com. Harper, “Here’s what concerns me. You say that Valpo has Class A. How does Valpo treat theirs?”

Mr. Merrel, “No, theirs is a Class B. It meets the standards for a Class A.”

Com. Harper, “Is it heat treated?”

Mr. Merrel, “No, it is not.”

Com. Harper, “Well, isn’t heat treated what the Environmental Protection Agency classifies as Class A?”

Mr. Merrel, “No, it is not. We are a high quality Class B product. There are different pathways to follow by being Class A and heat treating is one of them.”

Com. Harper, “If you are a Class B, there’s some restrictions on you, right? They’re concerned about where you are putting it. You are not supposed to be putting it by people, and that concerns me. Why if it is so safe is there restrictions on it that you have to keep it away from springs, streams, if it is such a safe product, why do they have these restrictions on it?”

Mr. Merrel, “The limitations are very similar to ____ management practices. Setbacks, not necessarily from people, but setbacks from potential contaminant hazards.”

Com. Harper, “So you can’t go out and put on the land where you have animals grazing, correct? So that tells me there is some danger involved here of some kind or if it was Class A you could put it down with animals grazing, couldn’t you?”

Mr. Merrel, “Yes you could.”

Com. Harper, “The city of Portage, they heat treat theirs, right?”

Mr. Pilarski, “I can’t answer for the city of Portage.”

Mr. Merrel, “We have both Class A and Class B products all over the Midwest. You are correct, limitations are less for a Class A product, but there are several standards that you have to meet to be Class A and one of them is being dewatered. The city of Valparaiso does not dewater their products so it can’t be a Class A product.”

Com. Harper “Does the city of Valparaiso heat the product?”

Mr. Pilarski, “No, we do not.”

Com. Harper, “I have one comment to make. My daughter lives out in that area and about three or four years ago, they all got giardia and they said it was from that. One of the pitfalls, I call it, . . . because the water table is really high there.”

Mr. Merrel, “We also have a publication here that is released by Margaret Prokur who was the former deputy assistant and administrative auditor, I will quote one of her statements. “In fact all the years that properly treated bio-solids have been applied to land we have been unable to find one documented case of illness or disease that has been related to that.”

Com. Knoblock, “You say you don’t put it near animals, but what about kids?”

Mr. Merrel, “There are setbacks from wells, from springs, from waters of the state.”

Com. Knoblock, “But eventually it is going to end up in a creek. If you get a big rain after you put that on, it would go into the water systems.”

Mr. Merrel, “The protocol for the application is a regulated application so that you can allow that not to happen.”

Mr. Pilarski, “And based on US EPA studies and requirements.”

Com. Harper, “I am reading from the US EPA. Class B requirements for land applications includes site restrictions that prevent crop harvesting and restrict animal grazing because there is still some danger in this product. So they won’t, that’s why the restrictions are there. And if what they say is apparently if this stuff lays out there long enough, it finally gets safe, I think that is what they are saying. If it gets exposed and spread out and lays there long enough. How big are your trucks that carry this out there, how much do they carry?”

Mr. Merrel, “About 78,500 pounds. It is below 40 tons. I guess I understand your concern, that is the purpose of the regulation is to make sure the application is handled properly. It is just common sense in that a lot of the heavy metals that are present, bio-solids are also present in peanut butter, toothpaste and bread. There are some brands of toothpaste that wouldn’t meet land application standards for the bio-solids because of the level of _____ in toothpaste. So it is all relevant as to what you compare it with. Your animal manures, commercial fertilizers, and Canada recently enacted commercial fertilizers pass the same scrutiny that bio-solids do because commercial fertilizers use acids to break down the product. And to further take your comment that if there were hazards, then they would not allow marketing and distribution permits. The marketing and distribution permits are means that products are for sale at Wal-Mart’s, (inaudible)….. and Nature’s Blend are all products that can be purchases commercially by households and take them home and put them in their flower pots.”

Com. Harper, “So we are selling stuff at Wal-Mart that the EPA says shouldn’t be around animals that are grazing but they are selling it at Wal-Mart and you can take it home and put it in flower pots with kids in the house. Is that what you are telling me?”

Mr. Merrel, “That’s a Class A product.”

Com. Harper, “We’re not talking about Class A product here, we are talking about Class B. There is a big difference between the two. They are not selling Class B at Wal-Mart, are they?”

Mr. Merrel, “No.”

Com. Knoblock, “Do you send letters out to people that are close to it?”

Mr. Pilarski, “There is notification from IDEM when the permit renews and sites are being added. For specific sites, if it is a non site specific site in the county, there is public notice through publication.”

Com. Harper, “How often does IDEM check you guys? In the last three months, how many times have they been out?”

Mr. Pilarski, “They haven’t been out in the last three months.”

Com. Harper, “And that is what worries me, too. Because we have other things they are supposed to be checking and their manpower is so short.”

Mr. Pilarski, “Sir, I invite them to come out and visit us anytime.”

Com. Harper, “I understand that, but there are other things they are regulating in the county and they don’t have the manpower to do it and they don’t come in here and do it.”

Com. Knoblock, “One of your drivers was stopped and they had produced what they are calling for, do they have papers?”

Mr. Pilarski, “There is not a permit required in the state.”

Com. Knoblock, “My husband hauls hay and he has to have something in his truck when he delivers.”

Mr. Merrel, “To answer your question of do we notify people for the times we are actually land applying, or is it just . . . .”

Com. Knoblock, “My daughter never got anything and its right by her house. I they should be.”

Mr. Merrel, “That is something you should take up with the state legislators because that is not a requirement that they receive notification before every application.”

Com. Knoblock, “But you are doing the hauling.”

Mr. Merrel, “To a non specific site. If it is a non specific site, then we request. . . “

Com. Knoblock, “What would you do with the sludge if you didn’t put it on the farmer’s field?”

Mr. Merrel, “We have limited options to that. One of those would be to put it in a landfill. Even though I am not sure a land fill would accept it. The reason being because of the percent of solid materials. Very few landfills in the nation can take a liquid product.”

Com. Harper, “There are certain cities around here that are not hauling this to different fields, correct?”

Mr. Merrel, “Over 48% of the bio-solids produced in the United States is land applied.”

Com. Harper, “What happens to the other 52%? That’s what the question I think she is asking. Do you want to answer that?”

Mr. Merrel, “It can be dewatered and land filled, incinerated, or some other type of disposal.”

Com. Knoblock, “Instead of taking it to the farmer’s field, why don’t you do that?”

Mr. Merrel, “Our costs right now as far as ___ are $120,000.00; you can triple four times that amount per year, at the same time you could take away the benefit to the farmer, and therefore the $60,000.00 that we save those growers would now be incurred by them.”

Com. Harper, “Do you charge the city for your services, is that what you do, you charge the city?”

Mr. Pilarski, “Who?”

Com. Harper, “You.”

Mr. Pilarski, “I work for the city. I am a city employee.”

Mr. Merrel, “I charge the city.”

Com. Harper, “How much do you charge the city?”

Mr. Merrel, “Per gallon, it is between two and a half and three cents a gallon.”

Mr. Pilarski, “Our total for land application comes out to approximately, including my time and the utilities to about four and a half cents a gallon.”

Mr. Merrel, “To answer your question, the trend is more towards beneficial re-use rather than disposal. With fertilizer costs being what they’ve been this last year, by doubling the cost of nitrogen almost, phosphorous being higher than the demand of the farmers, is exceed and supply.”

Com. Knoblock, “But we won’t know for twenty years what it is doing to us.”

Mr. Merrel, “But we do because it has been studied for over thirty and beneficial re-use goes clear back to the Chinese and honey pots. If there were detriments there, those things would have shown up.”

Com. Knoblock. “Well, there is a lot of cancer around here, maybe that is what’s happening.”

Mr. Merrel, “And maybe it is from the bread we buy.”

Mr. Pilarski, “I would be more worried about discharge from my septic tank.”

Mr. Merrel, “We are going to be further from your well than your septic tank is. Not to mention how strongly …..(inaudible). And as an older home in the county you may not even have a leech field, it may be dumped directly in the streams and ditches and in the waterways. We are so thoroughly regulated.”

Com. Harper, “You say regulated, but you’re telling me you haven’t seen an IDEM guy for three months.”

Mr. Pilarski, “Ed and I go through (inaudible)….. Indiana Water and Fire Association. We serve with the land application department. So I do have contact with them on a regular basis.”

Mr. Merrel, “An IDEM inspector wouldn’t have to come for me to do my job professionally.”

Com. Harper, “I am just saying people give me information and when I hear IDEM is overseeing something I have a problem with that because I don’t think they have the manpower to do it. It’s my personal opinion. I have seen other projects that they oversee and they just don’t have the manpower to do it.”

Com. Evans, “Russ, is there a problem with this application?”

Russ Shirley, “Not that I am aware of, sir.”

Com. Evans, “Your product doesn’t change from day to day other than some of the minerals.”

Com. Knoblock, “And they also had spillage on the road last night.”

Mr. Pilarski, “Spillage? A one foot by one foot drop?”

Com. Knoblock, “No, it was a pretty big circle. They cleaned it up by the time you got there.”

Mr. Pilarski, “While we were talking a one foot by one foot area was cleaned up, yes, ma’am.”

Com. Knoblock, “I know they spilled.”

Com. Harper, “What about load limits?”

Al Hoagland, “The road they were using in question is what we call an all weather road and is not posted for weight limits. It is one of the few roads that we do have that we have in the past when we dealt with the folks, if we noticed any damage they give us maps, they notify us when they are working and they always pretty much gone the route we needed them to go and stopped on times when we asked them to stop.”

Mr. Meller, “Its part of our program. We like to work in close concert with the Highway.”

Com. Harper, “I thought I read somewhere that you were supposed to have some documentation in their vehicle. I thought I read that somewhere. I have read so much on this in the last couple of days that I am not sure about that.”

Mr. Meller, “Each of the drivers has load sheets that represents where the load came from, the gallons in the vehicle, and the destination it is going to. As far as documentation about the product, since it is not a hazardous material you are not required to placard.”

Com. Harper, “My personal feeling is we take no action tonight until we put this back on the agenda and we have a chance to look at it. I don’t think any action is required this evening. Do you? Does anyone think so?”

Com. Knoblock, “I need to study it more.”
Com. Evans, “I think the government is already regulated enough. If the federal government and the state government has their hands in what they do and I think we should consider that they do their job professionally and I don’t think we should be butting in.”

Com. Knoblock, “Do you want it up where you live?”

Com. Evans, “They put it in Liberty Township and have been putting it in there for years.”

Mr. Merrel, “We spread the product around my home and I have four children. I would not put my children in danger if I thought there was any risk whatsoever. On farm fields next to my home, all around my home. I put in a million and a half gallon tank on my farm so I could get the product there because I thought it was a better product than I was getting commercial.”

Mr. Pilarski, “If any of the Commissioners would like to come down to our utility ___ house.”

Com. Knoblock, “When you have had somebody sick in your family and they weren’t knifing it in at the time so you know there is something wrong. Why do they go from the top of the ground to knifing it in if there wasn’t something wrong.”

Mr. Merrel, “Well the purpose of that agronomic ally is to hold the nitrogen so it doesn’t volatilize and the farmers like to have the nitrogen there next year for the corn crop. So that is why. But there are certain setback limitations for the surface application also to take the added protection so you wouldn’t have the chance of run off.”

Com. Harper, “Lets just continue this discussion after we have had a chance to look at it. Thank you.”

Al Hoagland, “Do you have an alternate site that you could dispose of this?”

Mr. Merrel, “We presently have approximately 1,700 permitted in Morgan Township. Actually, we have three growers that have expressed interest in at least three sites.”

Com. Knoblock, “And there are roads you will be going on that aren’t visible for semi’s to go on.”

Mr. Pilarski, “Those roads have been prior approved for our use.”

Com. Knoblock, “By who?”

Al Hoagland, “I would be inspecting them on a daily basis.”

Com. Knoblock, “But we are just getting our roads up to par.”

Mr. Merrel, “And we are extremely sensitive to those issues so if there is an issue, they’ll call me immediately and we’ll change course.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Is the county entitled to public notice because being spread in the unincorporated areas, is that true or false?”

Mr. Merrel, “When we were applying for our permit, Porter County was publicly noticed.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “By the paper?”

Mr. Merrel, “Yes.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Okay, but when you pick sites to spread on in the county, there is no notice to county officials where the sites are?”

Mr. Merrel, “Any adjoining landowner is notified for the site specific sites. The state has a site specific permitting, non site specific permitting and what we call hybrid permitting. Site specific permitting would only be for municipalities that have Class B product and apply all the different levels of constituents or measurements. Hybrid permit would be a city that has a product that meets Class A standards by heavy metal concentrations but yet wants to permit the entire county rather than just a specific field. Site specific is when you are only permitting a specific field, every adjacent property owner to that site receives a notification from the state.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Every time before you apply?”

Mr. Merrel, “No, just when the permit renews.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “How about the county, do we receive that notice from IDEM just once?”

Mr. Merrel, “The Board of Health would.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “And would they receive this notice annually?”

Mr. Merrel, “No, just the one time we apply for.”

Com. Knoblock, “So our Board of Health has it here.”

Mr. Merrel, “Yes, IDEM sends it to the Board of Health.”

Dave Schelling, “How long is the permit good for?”

Mr. Merrel, “Five years. Ours is good through August 31, 2009. And again we have 1,700 sites although we are not limited to that.”

Com. Knoblock, “I suggest you take it to the dumps.”

Com. Harper, “1,700 sites or 1,700 acres?”

Mr. Merrel, “1,700 acres. Our question to the Commissioners then would be may we resume operations tomorrow? I had to send five semis all the way back to Kokomo, Indiana this morning and all of my crew. I have already lost a lot of money in that stopping operations so we could bring it before the board tonight.”

Com. Knoblock, “I thought you said you had other places in Indiana to take it.”

Mr. Merrel, “Well, not to take it, because Valparaiso can go to other places but it becomes so uneconomical. We have other places that we service. We service about 250 different communities throughout Indiana and the Midwest. So I have to re-assign those drivers and that crew when we were intending to work in Valparaiso for the entire week, I had to pay for hotel rooms last night that they didn’t need because we had to shut down operations. I went ahead and had them spend the night instead of driving all the way to Kokomo and re-assign them to other projects today.”

Com. Harper, “If you don’t need permits and you are not on overload roads, how did you get shut down?”

Mr. Merrel, “Ms. Knoblock made that request and we honored it. We honored that at 7:00 last night.”

Com. Knoblock, “I didn’t ask you to shut down, I just asked you where your permits were and the guy (inaudible) . . . one of those machines that you knife it in with.”

Mr. Pilarski, “I am sorry, ma’am but you said you didn’t want to see it so we shut it down.”

Com. Harper, “All right, let’s take a break. Okay, John?”

Com. Evans, “I don’t think we should interfere with their operation at all. I think they have been permitted by the EPA and the federal government and state government and they have a business concern that is ongoing with the city of Valparaiso and I think we are meddling where we don’t belong.”

Com. Harper, “Let me say this. I just got to be aware of this really within the last two or three days from Commissioner Knoblock. I have been doing some reading on this and I agree with you right now. Until we do some research, as far as I am concerned, there is not much we can do right now about this. I will say this: I don’t think I would want this in a field next to my place, especially if there was any drainage. I read these EPA requirements, they worry about it getting into ground water, they worry about it getting into streams, they worry about animals grazing around it, and they have all these worries. Most of the articles I read on it say it is probably safe, but . . . I think it would be outside our realm, we may not be able to, I want to do some more research. I swear I read somewhere that they were supposed to have those permits in the trucks. But, I don’t think we can interfere tonight with their operation. I just think we have to do some more research on this. How do you feel about it Carole, I don’t think we have the power to stop their operation right now.”

Com. Evans, “I think the guidelines they talk about are just that, guidelines. The best practices of anybody with common sense wouldn’t empty a septic field in a creek. Buses go over bridges in Chicago and dump their sewage into the mouths of people on boats below. Those are accidents, this is a planned thing. People that are putting this on their land have applied for it and want it there for the cost savings they don’t have to pay for fertilizer. I think we are way over our heads.”

Com. Knoblock, “Dave or Al, did you find that _____ that said you were going to make some changes?”

Al Hoagland, “Yes, I did. These are the minutes of a meeting from March of 2001. Sorry I didn’t make copies, I didn’t find it until late in the day. What we were questioning was we were told in 2001 the natural retiring of the bio-solids lagoon (inaudible). . . . to dry out an application. Projection for the material bio-solids will continue for the next three to four years. At this time, existing bio-solids lagoons will be totally removed. So, we were under the impression that in 2001 that in three or four years this would done.”

Mr. Merrel, “The lagoons aren’t in production.”

Mr. Hoagland, “The hauling, that’s what we were lead to believe.”

Mr. Merrel, “Can I see that please?”

Com. Evans, “The lagoons pertain to the area outside the treatment facility.”

Mr. Merrel, “One other thing I might just interject is that the case law might need to be reviewed also because there have been counties in other states who have tried to ban the use of bio-solids and since it is a state and federally regulated product, the county cannot supersede. I have some documentation of that also if you would like to see it to where judges have upheld and over ruled the county bans on bio-solids applications and that farmers have actually been granted permission to file suit themselves for loss of revenues and also benefit from their site.”

Com. Knoblock, “What a shame.”

Com. Harper, “I agree with Carole but we cannot stop them right now until we research a little more.”

Com. Evans, “We can’t even stop the state from charging two bucks.”

Al Hoagland, “If you do allow them to continue, what I would like to offer for your piece of mind is 600 South, I am convinced, with the construction of that will not show any damage. We will monitor it but I will advise that perhaps you or I drive these other routes and video tape them. If you would feel more comfortable to keep them in one area.”

Com. Knoblock, “I am not so much upset about the roads as I am my kids live there. And it has been every year and every year. Or any kids.”

Com. Harper, “I think Carole said she did not ask you to quit, is what she asked is to see your paperwork. So I think that. . . .”

Com. Knoblock, “Somebody said, one of the trucks called and said, was it you that said to stop it?”

Com. Harper, “I don’t think we have any jurisdiction over this other than our road jurisdiction to make sure the weight does not go outside the weight we allow on our roads. Let’s have our attorney research it and re-visit it.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “If you have that case law, I will take it.”

Com. Harper, “I just want to say one thing. Of all this discussion and arguing of IDEM monitoring this, and I understand what you are saying, I have faith that you do monitor this but I don’t have faith that IDEM is monitoring this.”

Mr. Pilarski, “The last inspection was 2001 and what I would like to say is that we have such pride in our program, that they can come in at any time, anyone could, and do a thorough inspection to the program and we do even more that the …..”

Com. Harper, “What I am saying is that this idea that IDEM monitors. Now I am going to share a story. There are silt fences around streets, and creeks and therefore it is supposed to be monitored by IDEM. We had several problems and it almost takes an act of God to get someone up here because of manpower. I know they are not coming in and monitoring. I don’t think they have the manpower to do it.”

Com. Evans, “The other thing that I don’t think was mentioned is there are self appointed triggers that occur and when those triggers occur, you are required to report it yourself, aren’t you?”

Mr. Pilarski, “We report everything that we do and those reports are on a monthly basis. When we submit them, if there is a problem with what we are doing, they will notify us immediately.”

Mr. Merrel, “The state has a tracking system for every field that is used, it is recorded, then data is then recorded so they have all that information.”

Mr. Schelling, “I just wanted to mention that several years ago we had a problem with roads with this operation and Valparaiso did make it right. They corrected the situation so from that standpoint we did have a good experience.”


CONTRACT FOR GREG PHILLIPS MEMORIAL BUILDING

Atty. Rinkenberger, “I have two miscellaneous things today. I have the contract, its an 18 page multiple contract document from Morton Buildings, Inc. for the Greg Phillips’ Memorial Building that I would like a motion to authorize Commissioner Harper to sign off on this after I sit down with Russ Shirley to make sure the contract complies with the bid specifications.”

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.
Atty. Rinkenberger, “We have Harold Haberlin on our Drainage Board and I need a motion from this board to extend his term on the Drainage Board from January of 2005 through December 31 of 2005.”

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

Atty. Rinkenberger, “There are requirements that the terms be staggered a certain way and we can take him up to the end of December and then we will look at these terms and make sure that the new appointments are made so they stagger like they were supposed to be. We can do that when we make our new appointments.”


PLAN COMMISSION SESSION
Robert Thompson, Director

Mr. Thompson, “This is Plan Commission Resolution No. 05-16 that was before the Plan Commission on October 12th, public hearing and we recommend it for approval by a 8-0 vote. Going through the storm water manual, its extensive. I guess I should explain the purpose of it. Part of it is because of the EPA and IDEM mandates that have been put down for the urban areas for water quality is part of the new rules. Falls to (inaudible) …. Issues is the follow up to the ______ control ordinance that we do have. The storm water current ordinances are lacking and it is questionable whether or not what we have is the most manageable best practices. So there are a number of issues we are trying to work in here. Enforcement shall be with the Plan Commission with this ordinance. We can seek direction and assistance from the Drainage Board, Surveyor, Highway Engineer and NRCS and the DNR. This is not changing anything from our current ordinances that we have today. All these agencies are involved with site reviews, subdivisions, DNR becomes involved when it comes within a flood way or water way. Here again, it does not change anything from ordinances we have. This ordinance applies to subdivisions, finding and developments, commercial and industrial reviews and site plans. The ordinance refers to a storm water _____. This is about a ninety page document that was prepared. It has a number of best management practices with ____. It talks about maintenance plans that were required. It has a lot of the technical information that is required such as how to determine if there is spring water or storm water and how to calculate your run off, how to calculate the size of your ponds, a number of technical information is in this, it is quite extensive. We put it in the manual, why? Because it is going to be approved by the Plan Commission as a resolution or part of the policy because it also includes such items as the snow requirements for their plans. Why are we doing this? Portage has done this, and a number of other places are doing this and it is also recommendation from Ground Rules who is doing our ordinances to do such things with engineering standards. To put them into policies or resolution type items because ordinances take a lengthy time to go through where a resolution can be done quicker and we can look at the issues.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Are you distinguishing between this which is the ordinance that the Commissioners pass and the . . .? Are they responsible for passage of the manual?”

Mr. Thompson, “No, it is going to be Plan Commission. It is being done by numerous municipalities and . . . “

Atty. Rinkenberger, “That have advisory Plan Commissions? That have Plan Commissions that are advisory?”

Mr. Thompson, “That is what our consultant is recommending what we do with a number of our engineering standards. This is full of engineering standards.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “So your consultant is recommending that the Plan Commission take action without this board approving the action?”

Mr. Thompson, “If you don’t want to go through the approval. . .”

Com. Harper, “Gwenn, let me tell you. Let me answer that question. Since I have been in this office, I get ten drainage call for every road call and to get an ordinance is such a major thing. It takes so much time that this is a way, and it is being followed by other municipalities and recommended by Ground Rules for some of these minor things, to let the committee, the Plan Commission change some of these minor things, and if there were three Commissioners sitting here unhappy with that, they could then get themselves an ordinance and undo that, I am sure.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “I just don’t want you guys delegating your authority to an advisory board unless you know what you are doing.”

Com. Harper “I just think sometimes government moves so slow and I could fill this room with people who have been flooded because of what we don’t have on the books. I am sick of just fighting, fighting, fighting.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “It might be cleaner . . .”

Mr. Thompson, “Essentially, when this comes into effect is when there is an application to the Plan Commission.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Then the technical regulations are something the Plan Commission hears? You guys are incorporating this by reference in the ordinance, right?”

Mr. Thompson, “Right.”

Com. Harper, “So the Plan Commission can start taking some action.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “I would like to see our advisory board take a _____ of something unless you guys didn’t want it.”

Mr. Thompson, “I would be more than happy to take any input the Commissioners have.”

Com. Knoblock, “I’ve gotten a call everyday since I have been in office and I recommend that we approve this.”

(Mr. Thompson was not speaking into the microphone and parts of his dialog are inaudible.)

Mr. Thompson, “Some of the things like I was mentioning with the manual first to the pond sizing and how to calculate the particular rain, how much water is going to be coming off, also, what is the maintenance tax that will be required for private systems, building and plan submittal requirements permits, this is section four, ordinance does refer to a permit procedure and review process. It provides for waivers and requirement for waivers and there is also mitigation measures. This could be going into a separate permitting process that we would do through the Plan Commission. Right now all applications go in front of TAC, which hasn’t ____ people that sit on this appointed by the Plan Commission, David Schelling, Kevin Breitzke, myself, Chuck Walker, and Kelly Kavel. Right now, we go actually by this ordinance, through this (inaudible)…also set up in my opinion, separate storm water board to review these situations if you want to look at these prior to. It is kind of giving a recommendation to the Plan Commission prior to approval of these applications that come in. Storm water management section enforces what the intent and goals are within the storm water management as far as water from all developments be outletted into defined water ways. A water way is defined in the ordinance as a permanent or intermittent stream or channel or other body of water either natural or man made which gathers or carries surface water. That would essentially is not into a water way and it is directed at somebody’s property. We’ve had these situations and it causes quite an ardent discussion from Plan Commission. One situation I know there is a potential pond set back it was pointed right at a gentleman’s corn field and there was not a water way. Essentially what this is going to require is some kind of maintenance agreement going across an easement across this property so we can define the maintain tax on who is actually going to maintain this area and this easement going across. It is going to require somebody to get a maintenance agreement across the property if there is not a defined water way.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Is that going to be something the Plan Commission will do and enforce?”

Mr. Thompson, “Yes. It’s a conceptual plan process, the Plan Commission will very well warn the developer and say it is not a defined water way; do you have a maintenance agreement? Or send the person off to the ____.”

Com. Harper, “What this is going to do, they are going to have to conform to this before the plan is approved.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “So they will be dealing with the Plan Commission to make sure this is complied with and then all of this should be complied with before they present their thing to the board? Kind of like how we had it set up for the PUDs. You had a checklist, Plan Commission employees made sure the ordinances were being complied with and you had your checklist done, the whole thing would be presented to the Plan Commission. Okay.”

Mr. Thompson, “We do have the check off list incorporated with the appendix and the. . .”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “So then you will be advised by the Plan Commission when they present something that’s the storm water control ordinance has been complied with.”

Mr. Thompson, “Yes.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “And when the subdivisions over there would come back to the Plan Commission to the Commissioners we’ll already know what the storm water ordinance is like. (inaudible)…”

Mr. Thompson, “It is full of good stuff I will have to admit. It does define public and private system and the sense of going through it. I mean, the public, being a county regulated drain be maintained by the Drainage Board, drains under a public road, accepted by the Commissioners as public. Outside of the regulated drains are the public right of way accepted by the Commissioners, the goal is to submit a maintenance plan for approval by the Plan Commission with these developments so essentially if there is a ditch going outside the right of way accepting (inaudible)… and its not a regulated drain or within the public area accepted by the Commissioners then it must be within a maintenance covenant document that must be submitted to the Plan Commission for review and explains how these private systems are to be maintained, it does not make the county obligated to maintain these private systems.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “All this will be recorded, right?”

Mr. Thompson, “Right. Because it is supposed to be inside a maintenance covenant, so yes it is.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Because otherwise it won’t have any enforceability.”

Mr. Thompson, “Now it doesn’t prevent the county if there is an emergency situation where they need to go in and there is an easement that is supposed to be recorded. It doesn’t prevent the county when they say there is an emergency situation where they need to go in and do something, whether it is flooding the road or what not, they can go in there and correct it quickly, they can’t do this.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “The county can do it and get reimbursed.”

Mr. Thompson, “In that situation, we have another situation where it talks about the idea of, there is an item in there where if they are considered private systems and they have a maintenance plan recorded and stuff and they are not abiding by it, the county can go through a procedure similar to what is within the unsafe building ordinance and go in and actually assessing the property and go in and do the maintenance. That’s in the ordinance. The formal maintenance covenant must be reviewed and approved and may even have to put in language (inaudible)…. Make sure it is recorded.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Everything you guys do need to be recorded. But if you don’t require recording of these documents, we are going to be in the same situation where a lot of times where there are agreements made and the parties aren’t doing them and they want the Commissioners to enforce them. If you just record the document, it puts everybody on notice and they have a legal action without bringing us into it.”

Mr. Thompson, “It also gives the Plan Commission . . . .if you wanted to do a private system, the Plan Commission could come out and say we would really like to (inaudible)… a county regulated drain. But they can’t get recommendations, it does talk about that. In the end, if they do decide to record the private covenants, they can say that or go with a conservancy district. It also provides that the Plan Commission may enter the property on ______ in these situations to make sure they are being maintained properly and functioning properly.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Right of access?”

Mr. Thompson, “Yes, right of access is included. It also goes to talk about surety on this also and one of the things too, is at the end with the plans, it goes through conceptual plan, the final plan would be the primary plat and secondary plat and it also talks further about ____ plans, must be submitted by the engineer when all of this is constructed so that they may be see it has been constructed according to the approved plans by the Plan Commission.”

Com. Harper, “Does this solve this back yard drainage problem we are running into or does it attempt to solve it?”

Mr. Thompson, “There is a reference to the manual. In the manual we do talk about rear yard drainage. In fact, one of the things this _____ the plan requirements of what we are talking about, but what is part of the plan requirements and we are also asking for finished grade elevations. All the buildings, this is something new that we do not do right now. That also is the problem we have coming in to the Plan Commission. Somebody is (inaudible)….. now we are going to have the actual plan and submit a finished grade elevation for all of these lots including each individual lot. It is going to require rear yard drainage. So it accepts this water and takes it and puts it in within the drainage system within the actual development.”

Com. Harper, “Give us an example of what happened in that one subdivision. Where the developer had followed the plans and it was the builders, go ahead.”

Mr. Thompson, “Their piped out (inaudible)… with their gutter, sump pumps and everything and dragged it in the back yard and had pipes going through so they had most of the back yard (inaudible). . .”

Com. Harper, “So these people had like ten or fifteen acres and they have like eleven or twelve homes up there and this women’s garden wiped two times this spring and we don’t have regulations to do anything about it.”

Mr. Thompson, “One of the things we are looking at is requiring the rear yard drainage with that. We can also have spot elevations along these rear yards so you can see if they are actually putting in a swale and actually directing the water to within their system and during this time we’ll probably even go further (inaudible.). . . . the time of the improvement location permit, but again prior to certificate of occupancy. The platted survey potentially shows that these elevations had been followed through before they get the certificate of occupancy.”

Com. Harper, “Could you tell the other two Commissioners who has worked on this with you on putting this document together.”
Mr. Thompson, “Karen Tallion has really done a lot of the research, Kevin has done a lot of research, myself, I have done a lot of research. I even compiled a number of ordinances throughout the nation that I handed to Karen to look through. Karen has taken a lot of this information and put it into the actual draft ordinance. As far as the storm water design manual, Karen didn’t want to have anything to do with it because it was a technical document so that way she gave it to us and gave us the guidelines, so it has been Kevin and I that have been working on the actual manual.”

Com. Harper, “I want to thank the county surveyor and you for the time you have spent trying to solve this terrible problem. I know this has been over and above what you guys have been doing because you are working with Ground Rules and rewriting the entire ordinance and everything. This has taken a lot of work and I appreciate it. The other thing I would like to tell the other two Commissioners, is Ground Rules has reviewed this. I would like to pass it on first hearing and set it for four weeks because they want to change some of the definitions so it fits with their ordinance when it gets passed and get it into form. In four weeks there is a little more chance for a little more work. Does anyone have any questions for Bob?”

Com. Evans, “No, I get those calls all the time, too, and people have a very real complaint when it comes to drainage and water. I think this is a great tact and it accomplishes two things; it takes the new construction and puts it in the TAC vein where it belongs and lets you address it using that in that entity and then it takes the old existing problems and puts the unsafe building provisions in effect to apply to those things. So I think it hits the nail on the head twice.”

Mr. Thompson, “One of the things I should mention in the manual that is really going to be different is in our ordinances right now, we state they must have a release rate based on a certain storm _____. Now what we are saying is they must have, state a specific release rate based on the acreage. And they must state the rate, nothing over. If they want to go under, great, if they want to keep on the property, great. But we are specifying . . .”

Com. Harper, “But that’s released where, Bob? In a regulated ditch?”

Mr. Thompson, “In a defined water way. Right.”

Com. Harper, “Because we can get in that argument, were you there when that was brought up? How much is it, do you know, and you get every engineer in the world to give you a different amount and this just says it is going into _____, water way or else you’ve got to work it out. That’s as I understand this correctly. And we have had (inaudible)…. Which they should of.”

Com. Evans moved to approve the Storm Water Drainage Ordinance on first reading, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.


Rezone, Ag to RR, Jeremy Nelson, Owner, 1st reading

Com. Harper, “This is a public hearing and I will first allow Mr. Thompson to present it and anyone that wants to speak against or for it will be recognized. Please state your name and address as it is being recorded. I will give you a chance to talk and then the public hearing will be closed.”

Mr. Thompson, “This is Plan Commission Resolution No.05-14, petitioner Jeremy Nelson requesting an amendment to the zoning maps from AG, agriculture and open space to Rural Residential. Plan Commission heard this at their public hearing September 28 this year and gave an unfavorable recommendation to the board by a 5-2 vote. I do not see the petitioner here tonight.”

Com. Harper, “Is there anyone to speak for? Is there anyone to speak against? Yes? Why don’t you come up here where that mike is.”

Lisa Langrave, “I am at 381 South 500 West, Valparaiso. The concerns that I brought up before were first of all the property size and that was one of the things the Commissioners had looked at. The integrity of the property is already there, I went and got a plat book and sat down and took a look at it. Some of the properties, including us, are very close. My husband and I are at 12.2 acres, my sister in law is at 13; that is very small compared to some of the other properties in the area. My husband’s grandmother, who, Arlene is actually was part of her land, they have 124.2. The Peterson farms in that area and they have a couple of adjacent properties, is 693.2; Mary Alice Doliver and then her son, Mike and Roxanne, that is her daughter in law, 384.9. It varies in size, Max Hood has 9.3; Darrel Sanders has 80; Luddington Farms is 151.9; the smallest property I could find in that area was 5.2, and that parcel has been parceled off quite some time ago. The person who represented Jeremy Nelson the last time made mention that there were very small properties kind of scattered and those are represented in the plat book with the dot. One of the properties that he mentioned is my in laws’, they are at 1.0, the land was gifted to them 35 years ago when Porter County, I am sure, wasn’t looking at size and acreage. Across the street, again another 1.2, I believe it is, but that is part of the larger 384. So that is definitely a big concern because we all very large property owners in that area. The other thing we were very concerned about is just the fact of the drainage. The parcel in question sits higher than both my sister in law’s property and our property. We are very concerned about the drainage and going across and flooding our front yard, so that is something we are concerned about. When we went to build our house four years ago we were told we couldn’t do two acres. We were told we would have to do a ten, and then subdivide it into fours. This doesn’t seem to go along with that plan so that is our big concern here. Thank you very much.”

Com. Harper, “Anybody else either for or against? Then I will close the public hearing. John or Carole?”

Com. Evans, “You obviously cant spot zone the property.”

Com. Evans moved to deny the request, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.


AGREEMENT WITH VALPO CITY UTILITIES FOR GREG PHILLIPS MEMORIAL BUILDING

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Russ Shirley just gave me an agreement between Porter County Board of Commissioners and Valparaiso City Utilities that addresses providing water to the Greg Phillips Memorial Building and it says that the Valpo City Utilities will extend a six inch water main under State Road 2 for a distance of approximately 162 feet and provide a one inch service tap, install a meter and device, a two inch water line for fire protection and free water use of up to 10,000 gallons per month. In exchange for that we will provide a location on the property for the utilities, both water facilities, provide access for the utility and utility customers, and will compensate the utility for one half of the cost of said water main which is not to exceed $17,000 and will pay for any water consumption that exceeds 10,000 gallons per month and the terms of the agreement is 30 years.”

Com. Evans, “What size of space do they need?”

Russ Shirley, “About a 20 foot by 20 foot.”

Com. Harper, “Haven’t they changed that a little bit from what it was represented before?”

Mr. Shirley, “I don’t think the terms have really changed that much.”

Com. Harper, “Is there any problem doing this in two weeks?”

Mr. Shirley, “The problem we have right now is the company that they have hired to do the boring underneath the highway said they can do it this week or next week, its either that or June before they can do it.”
Atty. Rinkenberger, “Why don’t we approve it conditional upon Bob and I assuring ourselves that these are the terms that we understood them to be and they haven’t changed them.”

Com. Harper, “We had discussions at our meeting and at the County Council about what these people can do. I agree with …”

Com. Evans, “The only thing that seems to stick in my mind is that the splitting of the hydrant was not something that was in.. . . .”

Com. Harper, “I didn’t know there was a limit on water ______”

Mr. Shirley, “Actually we have done a projection on what our water usage will be. We are only projecting that we will need 2,000 gallons a month.”

Com. Harper, “The other thing is I didn’t know we were splitting the cost on this.”

Com. Evans, “On the hydrant portion of that.”

Mr. Shirley, “Well, we have to run the water line under the highway anyway and the cost of differential of running a line and running a six inch line was, I forgot exactly.”

Com. Harper, “Really the only thing we are getting out of this is 2,000 gallons of water usage.”

Mr. Shirley, “We are getting free water usage for thirty years.”

Com. Harper, “I think it was presented differently. But that is fine.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “I have an old file, I will see if I can find anything.”

Com. Evans, “In the dump station, or whatever they call it, I think that is a definite advantage for all residents in south county.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “What does it mean the county will provide a location on the property for the utilities, both water facilities, are they going to build something on it?”

Mr. Shirley, “Yes, a ____ building. There is one over on Silhavy Road, by the water tower. They are going to build a building and we are going to split the cost of bringing the water across the highway, which we have to do anyway. This way we are doing it for half of what it would normally cost us.”

Com Evans, “I think it is a good idea.”

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.

With no further business the meeting was recessed.

Com. Evans moved to recess, Com. Knoblock seconded, motion carried.


BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
PORTER COUNTY, INDIANA

Robert P. Harper
John A. Evans
Carole M. Knoblock


Attest: Sandra K. Vuko, Auditor