REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 17, 2004
10:00 A.M.

The regular meeting of the Porter County Board of Commissioners was convened at 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 in the Commissioners Chambers of the Administration Center. Those present were Commissioners David Burrus, John Evans and Robert Harper and County Attorney Gwenn Rinkenberger.

President Burrus called the meeting to order followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.

APPROVAL OF PAYROLL

Com. Evans moved to approve the payroll of August 9, 2004, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Com. Evans moved to approve the minutes of July 6, 2004, and July 20, 2004, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

APPROVE RECYCLING ORDINANCE, 2ND READING

Com. Burrus, (First item of new business is the second reading of the Recycling Ordinance. Is there any discussion?(

Com. Harper, (On second reading, can we have an ordinance number?(

Atty. Rinkenberger, (Yes we can.(

Ms. Hartig, (It is Ordinance No. 04-18.(

Com. Harper moved to approve Ordinance No. 04-18 on 2nd reading, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

Mr. Whitcomb, (Could I say something about this ordinance? My name is John Whitcomb, I live at 2059 S. State Road 2. I am very disappointed that you people are passing this, (inaudible) double indemnity. Solid Waste now we will pay double for getting rid of our waste. We(ve got a tax on a tax. I guess now a days is the American way. Wasn(t set up that way, but that(s the way it turned out. I am also very disappointed in you people coming in here and in less than thirty seconds, you passed it. Just threw out a motion, passed it and that(s it. That has been happening quite a bit here lately. I would say that is ram-rodding the county government right down the citizens( throats even though there is only one here today that is opposed and in opposition. Usually that is the case. But I would at least like the privilege of being asked if there is a comment. Like I said, you(ve already passed the motion, we(ve got a tax on a tax now; we(ve got two programs to get rid of our waste. I hope this is enough.(

Com. Burrus, (John, I want to make a comment. That is, this topic we are talking about today has been through three meetings of the public Solid Waste District. You attended all of those.(

Com. Evans, (And spoke at all of them.(

Com. Burrus, (At the same time, we also discussed it at some length at our first reading last time. I take exception to your comment that this is ram-rodded through. There was public input in every one of those prior hearings.(

Com. Evans, (The Solid Waste Board has been trying to pass an ordinance like this for eight to ten years and you have had input in every one of those meetings; you have attended every one of those meetings. So to say there has been no public input, John, is entirely wrong. There is not a tax on a tax, because the ten dollars a year that you pay, doesn’t only go for Solid Waste recycling. This ordinance only deals with recycling. The ten dollars goes for leaf pick up, it goes for many different things. This is not paid to the county government, it will be paid to the person who actually comes to your house and picks up the recycling material.(

Mr. Whitcomb, (If you will look back through minutes you will see that you did about the same thing you did here. On this bill or any other bill. Throw out a motion, that(s it. Or you people discuss it among yourselves, you don(t ask citizens if they have any comments whatsoever.(

Com. Evans, (This is a second reading. The public portion of it occurred three or two months ago. You were here, you participated in it, John. We have been through one reading, this is the second reading. It could have been on 2nd reading we suspend our rules and have it done at the last meeting but we didn’t do that.(

Com. Burrus, (It(s time to move on.(

AMENDMENT TO EMPLOYEE PERSONNEL MANUAL RE: BENEFITS; VACATIONS; GROUP INSURANCE

Com. Harper, (We discussed changing three sections a couple meetings ago because some of those sections ended up with a case by case basis coming before the Commissioners for vacation time and lost time in case of a death and so forth. So I made some suggestions at the last meeting. We passed one which was Section 6.04, Group Insurance Benefits but we left the section on vacations, 6.10 and Leaves of Absence, 10.0, we left those for further discussion. In the meantime, the county attorney has prepared some amendments that I would like to propose at this time. That on Section 6.01, we delete the following paragraph out of the employee handbook.

Any elected official upon hiring an employee may determine, subject to approval of the Porter County Board of Commissioners, that prior employment experience merits crediting the new employee with an/some amount of years for employment for vacation time accrual.

(We were getting requests for vacation time as high as twenty and thirty days and so forth. So, under this new policy, that will all be limited and the policy will read as follows:

Any elected official, upon hiring an employee may determine that prior employment service merits crediting the new employee with accrued vacation time. To be eligible, the prior employment service should be either governmental in nature or related to the job position currently held by the employee.

Under such appropriate circumstances, an employee shall receive the following vacation accrual for prior employment experience:

1. One (1) year prior employment(five (5) days vacation;
2. Five (5) or more years prior employment(ten (10) days vacation;

Com. Harper moved to accept the amendments to the Porter County Government Employee Personnel Policy Handbook, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

Com. Harper, (Under Section 10.0, again we were having on an individual basis, department heads coming here or elected officials for their employees asking for different types of leave because it was provided for under the book. This will put these not on a case by case basis, but it will be pre determined by county policy and be approved to read as follows:

Section 10.05 BEREAVEMENT LEAVE shall be amended to read as follows:

The County allows three (3) work days off with pay when a death occurs in the immediate family of a fulltime salaried employee. Immediate family is defined as parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, children and spouse. In addition, immediate family shall include parents of a spouse, or siblings of a spouse. Every effort will be made to allow an employee time off to attend the funerals of anyone other than immediate family but pay is granted only when death is in the immediate family as defined above.

An employee is entitled to an additional three (3) consecutive working days for a total of six (6) days of paid funeral leave upon the death of: (a) an employee(s spouse; (b) an employee(s child; c) an employee(s step-child if this step-child resided with the employee at the time of death; or (d) an employee(s parent, if the employee(s parent resided with the employee at the time of death.

Any bereavement leave taken must be utilized in conjunction with the date of death or the funeral and it must be taken on consecutive working days.

Com. Harper moved to accept the amendments as read, Com. Evans seconded,

Com. Burrus, (The only comment I would like to make is to reinforce the point that this
makes it automatic as opposed to having to appear before the Commissioners and request the time off.(

Com. Harper, (That(s correct.(

Motion carried.

Com. Evans, (What about Section 6.04?(

Com. Harper, (That was already passed. Gwenn looked at the minutes and 6.04 was already passed.(

Atty. Rinkenberger, (I reduced all the amendments to one document so when we send it out to the employees, it is easier for them. The vote was taken on Section 6.04 at the last meeting.(

AMENDMENT TO ORDINANCE NO. 04-15(FIXED ASSET CAPITALIZATION AND INVENTORY POLICY(1ST READING

Com. Burrus, (This is the Fixed Asset Capitalization and Inventory Policy first reading at the request of the Auditor(s office. The Fixed Asset Capitulation is a listing of the values of all assets within the county as required by the state of Indiana. I don(t have the changes here.(

Atty. Rinkenberger, (If you look at the last page of the ordinance with the Section 3.66.040, that was omitted from the first ordinance that we passed.(

Com. Harper, (For those that don(t know, the Auditor(s office has been working for a substantial period of time putting together this document that is going to list all the vehicles, buildings, roads, right of ways, fixed assets. This is a public document and available to all department heads and I think it is a good thing. They have done a real good job finding out what we have and I move to adopt it..(

Atty. Rinkenberger, (Since there is no fines or fees, you could waive the rules and pass it on
first and second reading.(

Com. Harper moved to waive the rules and pass Ordinance No. 04-15 on first and second reading,

Com. Evans, (My only question, these schedules are defined in years. Is this something that the State Board of Accounts has recommended? I don(t know anybody that depreciates a car for fourteen years; nine years for an SUV, I mean that is a pretty far range.(

Com. Burrus, (Any idea, Becky, how these came about?(

Becky Phillips, (Auditor(s office) (I don(t know.(
Com. Harper, (Maybe we could see if somebody could answer us today.(

Com. Evans, (I mean it is fine, if there is a reason.(

Com. Harper, (Why don(t we put this on hold until we have further information.(

GIS PROJECT(SIDWELL
Joyce West

Ms. West, (Nice to see you. My name is Joyce West and I am with the Sidwell Company. Sidwell is the GIS provider for Porter County. I am here today because we would like to begin visiting the county department in a preliminary planning effort. We understand you are interested in resuming your GIS project. As you know, the GIS project had to be put on hold a few years ago. So prior to resuming this project, we would like to begin visiting county departments and look at what has changed since we had to put the project on hold. We would like to look at hardware configurations; software that may have changed in a year. Revisit the source documents that would be used to resume the GIS project and get just a good general idea about the changes that have taken place, such that when the County is ready once again, to resume the project, we will be able to help you hit the ground running and get off to a better start. So basically, I wanted to let you know and ask for your authorization to begin with this preliminary planning effort within the next few months.(

Com. Evans, (You realize we have no funds in our CEDIT plan for GIS until next year?(

Ms. West, (Yes I do. We would do this gratis. This is not a fee sort of service. We think it is in the best interest of Sidwell as well as the County that we get an initial idea of the changes that are taking place so we can be better prepared to serve you when you are ready to resume your project.(

Com. Harper, “Has this been bid? Is that how this is done?”

Com. Evans, “Sidwell is the original provider and they worked for a period of time.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “We terminated the contract until we could seek the funds. We went through the whole process.”

Com. Harper, “Is the remainder of the project, is the amount determined by any of the projects based on that bid?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Things have changed.”

Com. Harper, “So we may have to rebid this?”

Ms. West, “I don’t think so. The process that was used is a professional services process and in that process, was examining over 25 different companies. Sidwell was determined to be most qualified to provide this service to Porter County as needed. So it is a professional services kind of project. I do expect because of changes here as well as changes at Sidwell, that there will be some pricing changes. We want to be able to be prepared to discuss that with the County.”

Com. Harper, “Was it bid the first time around?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “There were RFQ’s similar to the same fashion as the service provider was handled, more so than the equipment.”

Com. Burrus, “My view on this Joyce, is inasmuch as we don’t have funding available until next year and a lot of situations and circumstances could change, I would prefer to wait until we are ready to take action and then go forward.”

Com. Evans, “As long as she is offering to do it gratis, which is very generous, because to go back and look at all the departments that have a need for GIS, requires some work. That is not an easy task. She is offering to do it gratis just to get us back up to where we were at, I think that is a very nice gesture. I would be willing to let her proceed.”

Com. Harper, “I agree with John. Because if we go before the Council, we need to have an idea of what this is going to cost. We had soil and water the other day with the surveyors, does any of that fit into what you are doing here and will you use that information? How will that work?”

Ms. West, “Absolutely. When a company has already proceeded with the Soil and Water Conservation Services as far as having digital soil information, yes, that will become a layer within the GIS project.”

Com. Harper, “Does it save us any money?”

Ms. West, “Yes it does. Counties who have done GIS prior to becoming available to the Soil and Water, had to shoulder the responsibility to create a digital data from the original existing copy. So, yes, that definitely will save you money. The soil data will be very useful to numerous departments and will be used by the Assessors in the assessment of agricultural land because soil is one of the determining factors of productivity. The Surveyor’s Department for drainage issues, for the Highway Department; likewise to consider drainage issues when they are doing a road project. And useful for your Planning Department for help in subdivisions. Yes, definitely it will be incorporated with GIS, it will be a layer that will be helpful for the various multiple departments.”

Com. Evans moved to approve a memo to department heads to acknowledge Sidwell will be reviewing and updating procedures and equipment for the GIS project for next year, Com. Harper seconded, with no financial obligation attached to this effort, motion carried.

Com. Evans, “Joyce, the fly over, is that done?”

Ms. West, “Yes, somebody came before us and said the county did contribute to a . . .”

Com. Evans, “That was being done by NIRPC. That if we contributed, it would help our status.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “It seems to me that if we approve a subdivision, we have to do another fly over. I was thinking wouldn’t it be smarter for somebody to contact NIRPC and find out if we just contribute to their fly over and then use it in your layer?”

Ms. West, “To my knowledge, what you are talking about is not NIRPC project, but in fact a state wide color ortho photography project and within that, funds have been ear marked for Homeland Security Funds to do a state wide color ortho photography project. Dollars were allocated for each county in the state. The more urban counties, which is thirty counties, will be receiving one foot pixel resolution, colored, ortho photography. The lesser counties will be receiving one meter pixel resolution. And counties do have the option to buy up in the resolution of that photography. You can go from one meter to one foot or in this case you could go from one foot to six inch pixel resolution by contributing additional funds. That project specifications are not due out until early September I am told; where the state will be soliciting proposals. At this time, I believe, through your Emergency Management Director, you can submit a letter of intent where you can say yes, we are thinking about possibility of contributing funds to buy up to a six inch pixel resolution. Of course, that would be six inches county wide, which would be a very high resolution for all of the areas of the county, some of which are not urbanized. So there is kind of a value judgment that needs to be made, but the county could submit a letter of intent. It is not binding, meaning if you decide once these proposals come into the state with pricing and you see the actual dollars required, you could say, no, that’s more than it is worth to us at this time. Other options available to us at this time, or to any county in the state, is you could acquire the one foot pixel resolution county wide through the grant money without having to contribute additional and then later contract to just have those urban areas in the county photographed separately with this one foot pixel resolution photography that you are going to get. It is something you need to look at and consider the value of it. Either talk with others in the county who have attended a presentation done at NIRPC. Kind of get from them what they learned about this program. There is certainly no danger to the county at this point to submit a letter of intent because you could just decide yes or no later whether or not you could buy up to that higher pixel resolution.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “So with this project we shouldn’t have to do any more fly overs?”

Ms. West, “Only if it serves the County’s needs to do spot updating of various changes. Like urbanized areas that you know have been changed and you would benefit by more recent photography as you go forward with GIS.”

Com. Harper, “Can we take advantage of this, is this going to save us money?”

Ms. West, “Yes. Automatically your county will receive color ortho-photography to a resolution of one pixel.”

Com. Harper, “Then if we want more, we have to submit a letter; who has to submit it?”

Ms. West, “I believe it is submitted by your EMA Director and I believe it should be submitted to the C-TASK organization, Counter Terrorism, I don’t know what all the letters stand for.”

Com. Burrus, “The advantage is the fact that source of aero photography is available now at no cost as opposed to having to pay Sidwell to do it.”

Com. Harper, “After we submit the letter of intent, where does the grant go?”

Ms. West, “That will cover your one foot pixel resolution photography and to go to a higher resolution for the county, six inches for the whole county, the county would contribute additional funds.”

Com. Harper, “But we need to have the letter of intent just to have that possibility. And then once we learn how much it is going to cost, we can decide, is that what you saying?”

Ms. West, “Yes. The letter of intent, as I understand it, the state group that is overseeing this project has sent out letters to EMA directors asking those directors to please respond back with a letter of intent.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Should we direct our EMA Director to send a letter of intent?”

Com. Evans, “I would say that is a good idea.”

Ms. West, “I would think so.”

Com. Harper moved to have the EMA Director send a letter of intent, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

FIXED ASSET CAPITALIZATION
Becky Harper, Auditor’s office

Com. Burrus, “We were in the process of making that amendment but John had a question and maybe you could help him with it.”

Com. Evans, “Who sets the time limits on the depreciation schedule?”

Ms. Harper, “The depreciation schedule is given to us by Michael Wilson, from the government fixed asset out of Chicago. He has been working on it with us before.”

Com. Evans, “So it is not just a recommendation, it is something . . . “

Ms. Harper, “It is something that is in most counties, I believe, I am not sure. He just gives us the numbers.”
Com. Burrus, “Do you know if it is consistent with most others in the state?”

Ms. Harper, “Yes, I believe so.”

Com. Evans, “Why don’t we go ahead and approve it since we need to get it done and see if you could ask him, I mean, eight years to depreciate a car is kind of silly. And if we can get an answer from him as to why the schedules are so long, typically it is three years for a vehicle. Why dot we go ahead and approve it with the possibility that we could amend it.”

Com. Evans moved to approve the amendment to Ordinance 04-15 on first reading with the possibility that it could be amended, Com. Harper seconded,

Com. Burrus, “Is this the one that we could do at a single time?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Yes we could but if we are going to keep amending it, I don’t know if we want to.”

Com. Evans, “Why don’t we wait?”

Com. Burrus, “The motion is approve on first reading, correct?”

Motion carried.

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Does the Auditor’s office need this passed today?”

Ms. Harper, “I am not sure.”

Com. Harper, “Do you have to have this before you have the completed document?”

Ms. Phillips, “I believe so.”

Com. Burrus, “We can do the second reading and make it official in two weeks. If you could talk to that fellow in the meantime.”

Ms. Harper, “I can call him when I get back to the office.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “You could call him right now and we could do it on second reading today if we get an answer.”

FRANCHISE AGREEMENT—MEDIA COM
Esther Viles

Ms. Viles, “This is for Malden. This is a renewal. I do not have the original document. They could be lost in corporate. This is a standard form and we only have about fifty customers, we are just hoping to . . . “

Com. Burrus, “Are there any significant changes to the agreement?”

Ms. Viles, “No, not really. Most of them have all the things that required by the FCC included in there. They are non exclusive franchise agreements which means that anybody, if anybody else wanted to come and serve those fifty three customers, they have the ability to do that. The FCC says that everybody has to have a level playing field, so they would have to have the same requirements we have.”

Com. Burrus, “Gwenn, you said you reviewed this and there was no problem?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Correct.”

Com. Evans, “When the companies put the cable throughout all the county they strung cable on all the telephone poles and all the counties attached to cable had a tax and then that supplied cable television to all those homes that did not get it. Then five or six years later, they came along and through that same cable they now supply computer service to homes, too. Governments are forbidden from attaching a cable fee, can you tell me why?”

Ms. Viles, “Well, right now it hasn’t been determined that cable service is not a franchise agreement and there were so many things they are trying to figure our right now, that this is just up in the air until we figure out what to do with it. It is so new and came along so quickly, that people didn’t have a chance to figure out what to do with it.”

Com. Evans, “I understand, but you charge a fee for the television connection that goes through that same cable and you charge a fee for the internet connection in that same cable, we are only allowed to tax things on our poles in the right of ways, we are only allowed to tax the one side. You are delivering two services for one fee.”

Ms. Viles, “They are getting to rewrite the Telecommunications Act and they will probably address that issue.”

Com. Harper, “Has anybody attempted to charge a fee for the cable?”

Ms. Viles, “Other counties throughout the United States have tried but they have been shot down in Federal Court.”

Com. Burrus, “That will probably be the outcome of the Telecommunications Act, to determine whether or not that should be included as a taxable service.”

Ms. Viles, “Correct.”

Com. Harper, “Do you pay the fee four times a year at the Auditor’s office?”

Ms. Viles, “This would provide for probably annually. You can do it that way if you want.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Is the payment under Page 6 an annual payment?”

Ms. Viles, “Yes. Our standard agreement makes it annual.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “And that is a 5% franchise fee that goes into a special franchise fee fund for cable franchise.”

Com. Harper, “But you pay it in the Auditor’ s office and I assume you file some sort of a report with that.”

Ms. Viles, “Right, it is accompanied by our report explaining what it is all for.”

Com. Harper, “Who does that get sent to?”

Ms. Viles, “To the Chairman of the Commission.”

Com. Evans moved to approve the contract, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.


OFFICE HOLDERS/DEPARTMENT HEADS

Sharon Lippens, ITS, Equipment contract/lease

Ms. Lippens, “At the last meeting we discussed leasing the copy machine that is being used pretty much exclusively for envelopes and in looking at the proposal there was some discussion if it should be purchased outright or leased and what kind of specifications there might be with either of those options. I went back to the company that we negotiated with and asked them to try and outline to me some of the pros and cons of each option which is what I tried to outline here in this letter. One thing I did want to correct that I was incorrect in stating at the last meeting is that the current envelope machine we have now was purchased by the county four years ago and about year three we started having problems with it. They came out and did what they could. At that time, they stated that even though verbally we were told that it would handle envelopes, they have since withdrawn that and said the machine was not designed to process envelopes. They have done what they can to make the machine work but it does not work very well. Currently if we try to run envelopes through it, it will ruin one of every three that we run through. That is not cost effective and we have not been producing envelopes since that time. This machine has it stated in the contract that says it is specifically graded to handle envelopes and it outlines the sizes of the envelopes and the types of envelopes it can handle. It also states that it will run NCR paper which is another issue we have at times. That is incorporated as part of the contract. From ICONS’ perspective, they don’t have a preference whether we purchase or lease, obviously with a lease they receive more money, but I wanted to outline some of those issues so we have a full understanding before we make a decision.”

Com. Harper, “How much is this costing?”

Ms. Lippens, “The cost of the purchase would be $13,036.00. If we were to lease it we would be paying $288.00 a month which adds up to a difference of $4,244.00 over a five year term which the company has stated that the expectant life of this is five years. Although we are not seeing that with our printer machine.”

Com. Burrus, “Same manufacturer?”

Ms. Lippens, “No.”

Com. Evans, “Why is the company opposed to a lease purchase at the end of the contract?”

Ms. Lippens, “They are not opposed but what they are saying is the machine has a five year life span so it really doesn’t have a lot of value. If you are lucky, it will still work. They don’t at the end of the lease, have much value.”

Com. Evans, “If it doesn’t have much value, then they should throw in there that for a dollar, we own it at the end of the lease. Maybe if we took care of it, it will still work. I can understand why you want to lease it and have the guarantee it is going to be repaired. But I think at the end of the lease we should own it.”

Ms. Lippens, “I can ask them for an updated price today.”

Com. Evans, “We might get lucky and not have it fall apart.”

Com. Evans, “I think we should take Sharon’s direction and go along with the lease as long as they can write the lease so that at the end of the five year term there is a specified dollar amount for the machine and that we would own it if we so choose.”

Com. Burrus, “It seems like all these office machine providers have made a major business out of the leasing and maintenance functions and they are certainly not going broke doing that. Does it eliminate the risks? Yes it does. It eliminates the risk to the owner but at the same time, the logic we used was to save $4,200.00. Looks to me like that same logic would still apply. If you want to get some more feedback from the lease people first that is okay.”

Ms. Lippens, “I am not opposed to either option.”

Com. Harper, “I agree with Dave. If they have a ninety day warranty, do they have an extended warranty and if so, what does that cost?”

Ms. Lippens, “The extended warranty is the maintenance agreement that we would be purchasing which is a fee outside of either option.”

Com. Harper, “You are planning to do that?”

Ms. Lippens, “Yes.”

Com. Harper, “So, we have a warranty on it if we purchase it.”

Ms. Lippens, “We do, but if the machine become non-repairable, they are released from that agreement. If they say we cannot buy the parts for this anymore, the manufacturer had discontinued it then they are released from their obligation.”

Com. Harper, “If we are going to have a warranty on it I think we should take a chance on it and purchase it like we did before.”

Com. Evans, “The warranty agreement is only ninety days.”

Ms. Lippens, “But the extended warranty is through the servicing company.”

Com. Harper, “She says we are going to have a warranty either way through the maintenance agreement. So our risk is if they decide not to manufacture parts anymore.”

Com. Evans, “Would we still qualify under the 36-month proposal here to upgrade?”

Ms. Lippens, “To purchase. I am not opposed to either purchasing it or leasing it, which ever option you choose to go with. The one thing I might mention with technology with the way it moves, there could be changes in technology in the future that we may not be able to take advantage of but they may be changes we might not want to take advantage of so it might not matter.”

Com. Burrus, “Is two weeks additional consideration time going to be a problem?”

Ms. Lippens, “Its been out of production for a couple of months, so we have several offices that are waiting, but are you going to be closing your meeting here soon? I could see if I could get ahold of the sales rep and ask him for some figures.”

Com. Burrus, “We will put this on hold until we hear back from you. Next item is discussion on maintenance issues.”

DISCUSSION ON USE OF CEDIT FUNDS FOR MAINTENANCE ISSUES

Com. Harper, “First, Gwenn, do we have someone here?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Yes, we should have Brian come up with Charlotte and give us an update on this remediation of the courthouse and installation of these air purifiers.”

Com. Burrus, “Brian is here from ESG and he was to come back to us with an additional cost estimate for some additional remediation work. Also, for some dimensions for any drywall materials that is going to be coming down.”

Brian Gericke, “Yes, I sent you a copy of the letter regarding the proposals. From when we were going through our work, we removed one of the drywall partitions at the courthouse and discovered that the system (inaudible) . . . there was dry wall that came out from the existing wall about two inches, there was a gap, there was a barrier that was up against the plaster wall. After we removed that we determined that we saw some mold that was trapped behind there. The mold was coming through there and had no way to dry out so the plastic actually held it in place. So we think this is occurring in other areas of the building where we have these drywall partitions. So what we did was we had the contractors go through and take a look at removing the bigger parts of 280 lineal feet of drywall partitions. We had Rainbow National and Champion Environmental Services. Champion is the one who did the original work out there. Everything else . . . (inaudible) from water damage in the basement area. Rainbow came back with a price to move the partitions of $13,546.00. For them to clean the room in the lower basement is $2,2280.00 a total of those would be $16,774.00. Champion was $10,400 to do the drywall partitions and to clean the basement was $3,200.00 for a total of $13,600.00. Basically their prices were similar in cleaning the boiler room but about $3,000.00 less on doing the drywall partitions.”

Com. Burrus, “What kind of cleaning work is proposed in the boiler room?”

Mr. Gericke, “There are some signs of water seeping into the building onto the foundation. Looking at going in there and basically vacuuming and cleaning the whole perimeter walls and getting those all cleaned up.”

Com. Burrus, “Is there any kind of assurance that it will not reoccur?”

Mr. Gericke, “No, there is ongoing moisture problems going on at the courthouse that can’t really be fixed easily. So this is for the maintenance to go through and clean it up versus the actual _________ for the problem. It is kind of dark in there, but it is a humid, dark, moist area. There could be some mold growth there associated with that. ____ in the other parts of the courthouse, there was some mold associated with it just because there is enough moisture there for it. It is on blocks so it is not really a good food source but there are probably be some liquid associated in there.”

Com. Burrus, “Then your recommendation is once this removal and clean up has been done then we will need to do some restoration of plaster work?”

Mr. Gericke, “Yes, there will certainly be some restoration. We cleaned and scraped off the current plaster that is there to get rid of the mold so there wouldn’t be a need to have another contractor come in and re-plaster it.”

Com. Burrus, “On top of that there will be some additional decorative painting to get it back into good condition. Are there any other areas of plaster that need to be repaired?”

Charlotte Miller, “Every floor has something it needs done.”

Com. Burrus, “There were two issues here, lets keep them straight. We are going to have plaster restoration as a result of your proposal. Also, since we are going to have a plaster contractor come in, do we have any other areas of the courthouse that needs to be repaired?”

Ms. Miller, (inaudible). On that one wall . . . . did you find mold back there?”

Mr. Gericke, “I believe we weren’t aware of that at any time, that is why we didn’t touch it. If we had known that there was something we would have adjusted that when we did everything else.”

Com. Burrus, “The only other thing is there will be some plaster restoration required.”

Mr. Gericke, “There will be plaster from what we did and if we do additional work. Most of these areas that already need work from what we did before, will need work anyway because of if we fill partitions, most of it is on the same wall.”

Com. Burrus, “The only other question out there, is there any plaster work that needs to be repaired other than what is involved at this point.”

Ms. Miller, “Yes, all over the building.”

Com. Burrus, “Take care of that at the same time. Lets go back and talk about these two proposals and deal with that.”
Com. Harper, “Then your recommendation is we have these units on each floor, correct?”

Mr. Gericke, “The filtration units? That is something we need to look at. I kind of feel that once filtering the air is probably adequate with the system that is there. This is something you can look at to see if it would be more helpful. Based on the air results we had done, we hadn’t really found or determined that there is high concentration of mold in the air. So I think what’s there, the system that is there now is adequately filtering out the system. We need to make sure that the relative humidity is kept low and I think maybe some dehumidifiers put in there and the air conditioning system is a dehumidifier system too and it should be adequate.”

Com. Burrus, “Your findings on air quality compared to the testing two years ago, now your findings behind the partitions, (inaudible) . . ., air quality is not considered a major problem.”

Mr. Gericke, “But we did find some mold growing behind some baseboard. That is why we wanted to get rid of that. In part of that process we did remove one area of the general partition because it was heavily damaged by water, on the other side of the same wall that was not covered by the partition so we removed that partition and that is where we discovered some other mold back there.”

Com. Burrus, “In summary, we have two proposals and one of them has a total of $13,000.00 and the other one is $16,000.00. Any discussion?”

Com. Harper, “Is the one who did the work here before is the one that is $13,600.00?”

Mr. Gericke, “Yes.”

Com. Harper, “And you supervised that work and looked over that work to make sure? Do you have any idea what your cost is? And that group called Champion?”

Mr. Gericke, “Yes.”

Com. Harper, “And you will be again, watching over this?”

Mr. Gericke, “Yes, I would propose to be out there again tomorrow for more sampling. Our estimate again is similar to what we had before, we estimated about 35 hours of a project, it may not take that many hours from us. Worse case scenario from us would be about $3,025.00.”

Com. Harper, “What was the price of Champion? $13,000 which is cheaper than that other one.”

Com. Harper moved to select Champion Services for the work to be done at the courthouse, and the next phase of work to be done at the courthouse by ESG, for the approximate range of $16,000.00, Com. Evans seconded,

Com. Evans, “The plaster is not going to be put back in because obviously that was what kept the moisture there, so that wouldn’t be redone? To go back and create the same mistake?”

Mr. Gericke, “No. We can plaster it and leave it the way it is or try to do another situation but we felt that if it is done similar to the way it is now, that the _______ should be put on the back side or interior side versus on the plaster work. If it gets through there where the moisture is on the plastering, dry that out.”

Com. Evans, “How far does that go?”

Mr. Gericke, “Approximately two inches.”

Com. Burrus, “Am I correct in saying that you are going to restore the plaster and not put any kind of false front on it?”

Mr. Gericke, “Yes, so that way we know we have all the problems that are ongoing. So as these problems start feeding back through again, they can be noticed and then it is routine maintenance to go around and clean these areas up and if we need to plaster and things like that. That way it wont get out of hand because you will actually be able to see them as they are starting to corrode. You will be able to see that quickly and take care of it faster.”

Motion carried.

Com. Burrus, “While you are here, Char, we want to ask you to go ahead and contact the plaster restoration contractors and make arrangements to get cost estimates for any plaster work in addition to what Brian is going to be exposing now.”

Com. Harper, “I think it might need some painting too.”

Com. Burrus “I was going to follow up with that but if that requires a separate contractor, lets do it. The point that is important is the fact you gave us a lineal foot dimension for your portion of 280 feet, and that is about four feet high?”

Mr. Gericke, “Probably about three feet.”

Com. Burrus, “You are in the range of about 1,100 square feet of plaster work.”

Mr. Gericke, “It will vary as far as how much we will have to scrape off to get the mold cleaned up. Some areas we may be able to wipe it off and others may have to be scraped. I think it may be beneficial to wait until we are done to have a plasterer come and look at it to see what is there at that time.”

Com. Harper, “That is fine.”

Mr. Gericke, “We could end up taking out two or three inches or half an inch of plaster because in some areas it might require more.”

Com. Burrus, “What kind of time table would it require for Champion and yourself to do this next phase.”

Mr. Gericke, “I will have to get in touch with Champion; probably within the next two or three weeks.”

Com. Burrus, “Immediately following that, Char, we want to have a plasterer and painting contractors available.”

Mr. Gericke, “We will come on Friday. Did you want the boiler room cleaned up as well?”

Com. Evans, “No.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “I had conversations with individuals that there were areas that needed to be looked at. One was Judge Harper’s Chambers. Go back over there and stop in at Judge Harper’s chambers and see if there is something to be done. We are not doing this over and over.”

Com. Evans, “It might be a good idea, Charlotte, if you have a list of the additional areas.”

Com. Burrus, “In summary what we are trying to do here is make sure the clean up is comprehensive and we don’t miss anything. Lets get back to Becky. What were your findings?”

Becky Harper, “I just talked to Brian and he said they got the information from the state of Indiana. They were along guidelines from the state that they use for their vehicles.”

Com. Burrus, “Okay.”

Com. Evans moved to suspend the rules and approve the amendment to Ordinance No. 04-15 on second reading, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Com. Burrus, “Let me clarify for the record the motion to suspend the rules is in respect to Ordinance No. 04-15, the Fixed Asset Capitalization and Inventory Policy.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Now we have to give a new ordinance number.”

Ms. Hartig. “04-19.”

Com. Evans moved to pass Ordinance No. 04-19 on 2nd reading, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Atty. Rinkenberger, “There is one more thing the Auditor’s office wants while they’re here. It is a resolution for Allowance for Doubtful Account Policy. This is for GASB 34.”

Com. Burrus, “Do you have any background on it?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “All I know is they wanted us to type it up and pass it for estimation on doubtful accounts. That is why we were having Sandy come in.”

Com. Burrus, “Is Sandy here today yet?”

Becky Phillips, “Not yet.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “How about Sheila?”

Ms. Phillips, “No.”

Com Burrus, “We just have some questions here and would like to have them here. Then we will move back to our discussion on maintenance issues and having dealt with the courthouse issue, Bob, you wanted to go from there.”

Com. Harper, “Number one, some of those people working in the offices with walls torn apart and I think we should get it fixed up as soon as possible. I had copies made of this fax I got on working on the landscaping of the trees that are dying out front that had been planted and the roots are growing down in the electrical. They are not going to live. It is pretty obvious. I thought we could take action on this today, but my idea is we should move the trees and we should have the electric boxes put down below grade level so no one trips over them. We’ve got to either cement them over or put something on those trees. The idea was to put a planter there. I think we would probably be better off holding that until next meeting and thinking about it. Maybe give him a name of a couple electricians locally he could talk to.”

Com. Burrus, “Charlotte has those names, she will be available for that.”

Com. Harper, “My thought was the planters would probably look better. They sent some pictures, these are at Saylor Basket, that’s where he saw these. Or maybe you have some other ideas. Maybe we can talk about it next time.”

Com. Burrus, “This concept using very, very large flower pots, is very effective.”

Com. Harper, “These will cover the spot so no one will trip over the space. That brings up another thing. This area out front I have discovered is being used for skateboarding. I think we need to put up a sign or somebody is going to get hurt out there. On Saturdays and Sundays because of the steps, different things out there.”
Atty. Rinkenberger, “Lets have Highway make up a sign. We have it posted out back by the garage, why don’t we put one out there?”

Com. Harper, “So, lets put this on the agenda for two weeks from now. Maybe you can look and see what planters you like.”

Com. Evans, “I think we should let the electricians deal with the boxes. They obviously were put in for a reason.”

Com. Harper, “Maybe we could put it in ground and have the planter sit by it. I don’t know if that is possible. The electricians can tell us. That’s all I have on that.”

CEDIT FUNDS

Com. Harper, “The Council already approved $60,000.00 of that CEDIT amount and I think we had a substantial amount more for in there. I think we should get on the agenda and ask for another forty. We are going to have a lot of offices that are now torn up in the courthouse; they are going to be painting, plastered and painted and so forth.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “And the window, that is another expenditure. These windows have to be cleaned once every five years and it costs about $5,000 to $10,000 to have a company come in and take this grunge off these windows and its been about five years, again that is another CEDIT expenditure.”

Com. Evans, “Well, we need to take obtain the money and then decide how to spend it. There are plenty of maintenance issues.”

Com. Harper, “Lets go in and ask for that at the Council meeting.”

Com. Burrus, “Have we caught up all the issues of maintenance that we had on hold? I believe we have. We have the Auditor’s request for Doubtful Accounts on hold. At this point in time, we will move to Commissioners’ reports.

COMMISSIONERS’ REPORTS

North District: Com. Evans

1. Jackson Heights, Unit C, Dedication for Right of Way and Utility Easement for road
to cross NIPSCO property. Recommend approval.

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

2. Request traffic study at the CR 1050 North and CR 400 East, CR 1050 North and CR 350 East, and CR 400 East & Greening Road. See Exhibit (A(. Shall this be forwarded to the sheriff?
Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Center District: Com. Harper

1. Vernon Woods Subdivision Road Agreement, located on the north side of CR 550
North between CR 50 West and CR 175 West. Offer to contribute $440.00/lot for a total of $11,000.00. Owners and subdividers are Charlotte Ransom and Ralph Affeld. Recommend approval.
Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

South District: Com. Burrus

1. Pleasant Minor Subdivision 2652-B-1 Road Agreement, located on the east side of CR 450 East between CR 600 South and CR 700 South. Offer to contribute $750.00/lot for a total of $1,500.00. Owners and sub dividers are Jeffrey A. and Mary Jo Sharp. Recommend approval.

Com. Burrus moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

2. Pleasant Minor Subdivision 2860-D-1 Road Agreement, located on the west side of CR 600 East between CR 1000 South and CR 1200 South. Offer to contribute $750.00/lot for a total of $2,250.00. Owners and sub-dividers are Douglas and Lisa DeFries. Recommend approval.

Com. Burrus moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.


3. Morgan Minor Subdivision 2444-D-2 Road Agreement, located on the north side of CR 300 South between CR 300 East and CR 450 East. Offer to contribute $750.00/lot for a total of $1,500.00. Owners and sub-dividers are Galen and Glenda Birky. Recommend approval.

Com. Burrus moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

CORRESPONDENCE

Treasurer’s monthly report for July 2004 is on file.
Clerk’s monthly report for June 2004 is on file.
Building Department’s monthly report for July 2004 is on file.

Request for transfer of funds-Commissioners

Fund 01.30 $160.63 from acct 1110 Salaries
Into acct 4410 Office Equipment over $100

For the purchase of an electric stapler.

Com. Burrus moved to approve, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Request for Additional Appropriation—Commissioners

Fund 258.30 $50,000.00 Unallocated CEDIT funds

To fund unsafe building ordinance.

Com. Harper, “That is money that started out because . . . .in the first place, we have many of these buildings and more than one area of the county and that is money to pay the attorneys on an hourly basis to bring suit but they are going to be able to lien the property if the suit is successful. So hopefully we wont have to keep adding to the fund. State law requires we pass an ordinance and we have to ______ the department’s funding and to get everything through we’ve got to get this funding okay’s and so that is the purpose.”

Com. Evans, “I just wanted to add that the Health Department, in discussion with them, projects there are about 300 such structures in Porter County.”

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

Com. Burrus, “In my notes, the only two outstanding issues on our original agenda this morning have to do with feedback from ITS on the lease of the printer and some information from the Auditor’s office on the Doubtful Accounts Policy. The last item I have here is Loss Control Policy.”

LOSS CONTROL POLICY

Com. Harper, “The attorney has prepared a memo to all elected officials informing them about that we are implementing a Loss Control Program. In fact, the Safety Committee is meeting this afternoon at 3:00 at the jail. I ask your approval on mailing this out to all department heads explaining to them we have set up a Safety Committee and will continue meeting and work on loss control and third party issues against the county, accidents, workman’s comp issues within the county. We will try to cover all the bases. This is our third meeting so this is just notifying everybody.”

Com. Burrus, “I think this is an excellent document, but beyond that, from my own experience going back a couple years, we’ve had and I think we inherited some situations with respect to losses that were unnecessary and as a result it became expensive and almost impossible in some cases to find willing insurance carriers. The things that have arisen out of that condition have been an awareness we have to do something and that we have started the process through the establishment of the safety committee that Bob mentioned. We want to make sure everyone realizes that we are serious about these efforts because they have been implemented to save our county money but at the same time be able to continue qualifying for insurance. My only comment is very well done.”

Com. Evans, “Kudos to you and thank you for the good work. It’s bringing an involvement and voice that wasn’t there before with contributions.”

Com. Harper moved to approve the distribution of the Loss Control Policy to department heads, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

Com. Harper, “All the people we have contacted have agreed to serve. The Park Department is helping a lot by getting some ideas together. I am hopeful to have a meeting of that committee, I think everyone will have been through that building and come up with ideas and have an open meeting. We will try to start scheduling today. I think our second meeting in September is the 21st and I am going to shoot for having those members here and I don’t think it will take longer that 30 minutes. They can talk about what they found out so far. Secondly, the Memorial Opera House. Apparently they are running short of funds. That is a commissioner department. Do you have any suggestions?”

Com. Burrus, “We need to sit down and find out what the circumstances are.”

Com. Harper, “Sheila brought it up at the Finance Committee meeting. That they have about $4,000.00.”

Com. Burrus, “Whatever their circumstances are, they need to have a conversation with us and see what their options are.”

Com. Harper, “I talked to John Rhame and he said everything would be together and all applications for the hospital interviews would be set and ready to go. I was thinking about the afternoon of October 5th which is our meeting day. If we had it starting at 2:00 p.m. which will be plenty safe after our meeting. Or at 1:00. If they have the names ready by then.”

Com. Burrus, “We have discussed that in prior conversations to try and combine that with our meeting date. John, any comment?”

Com. Evans, “I think that is fine. We are doing both the appointments at that time?”

Com. Burrus, “Okay. Sharon, do you have anything for us?”

Ms. Lippens, “(inaudible).

Com. Burrus, “Sharon says she was unable to connect with the sales rep and she left a message and they can get back to her.”

Com. Evans, “Your envelopes for the tax bills need to go out when?”

Ms. Lippens, “I can wait until next meeting. The amount of time it has been down now, two more weeks wont make a difference.”

Com. Evans, “Why don’t we go ahead and buy it and get the maintenance contract on it.”

Com. Burrus, “Our decision from last meeting still stands. That now concludes the morning session. After a short recess, we will continue with the Plan Commission.”

AFTERNOON SESSION—PLAN COMMISSION
Robert Thompson, Plan Commission Director

Rezone: I2-Ag-Greg Engstrom, Owner, 1st reading

Mr. Thompson, “I have a letter here from Emil Beeg, Land Surveyor. As agent for Greg Engstrom, 1415 E. Lincolnway, Valparaiso, petition of case 04-Z4, proposed amendment to the Master Plan to rezone Mr. Engstrom’s parcel from I2 to AG as presented to the Porter County Plan Commission on June 28, 2004, respectfully request to withdraw said petition.”

Com. Harper, “What the rule on that, for withdrawn?”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “They can’t re-file for three months.”

Com. Harper moved to approve,

Com. Evans, “Any reason?”

Mr. Thompson, “It was unanimous at the Plan Commission to recommend denial of this and I can show it to you. They were proposing a minor subdivision on the parcel and the question was how is that going to come about because of the warehouse here. This is a large parcel and it’s a few hundred feet away. This is all they were asking. The next question was what were they going to do with the rest of this. They were concerned about putting residential on there too. Some members of the Plan Commission said they would give consideration if they rezoned the whole plat.”

Com. Evans , “Same owner?”

Mr. Thompson, “Same owner.”

Com. Burrus, “If they are interested in residential development why do they want to go AG?”

Mr. Thompson, “They can develop minor subdivisions such as this and . . . . .(inaudible) spot zoning is sandwiched between I2 and Ag. Also with residential you are getting close to the airport which also could have some controversy with the airport which could be developed.”

Com. Evans seconded,

Com. Harper, “The reason the Plan Commission did that because they had people coming in and this is commercial and lots were sold right next to the residential and where this was zoned, _____, you can’t read the __________ as it was, these guys were coming in and wanted to cut part of it out for residential and leave the rest industrial and there would be people saying why are you putting that in my back yard. They have a whole plot so they can come in and do what they want and not have it industrial.”

Com. Burrus, “From my perspective, carving out a piece of residential out of almost a unanimously industrial area is counter productive too.”

Motion carried.



UPDATE ON OPEN SPACE ISSUE

Mr. Thompson, “We have had two meetings since the last Commissioners’ meeting. We had one last week and one yesterday morning. Last week’s meeting was pretty much agreed that we were going to look at the preservation of natural resources and leave it as an option on whether or not there would be active recreation type development within the PUD residential development, condominium type development. If it would be left up to the developer on the active recreation or are we looking for passive type with preservation of natural resources. We all agreed upon it. We all agreed that with cluster type development. Yesterday’s meeting became quite interesting because I came out with some aerial photographs. We started talking about . . . each of the sample on different situation and parcels. Some had small areas of natural resources, the one at the top is very large. It was predominantly wooded. The question is how do we do each one because everybody kept on saying that each parcel is different. The last one I show is what will happen if we have a straight open field like this. I asked them not to look at it as being out in the middle of an agricultural area, such as in Morgan Township or Pleasant Township where it would be wide open but think of that as being right next to a city or a town. How do we deal with each situation? That is where a lot of debate started and a lot of confusion started. Everybody agrees that if it was being served with water and sewer that there is a density formula that can be worked out as far a preservation and clustering. The big confusion came in, is what happens if it is well and septic? There is not a formula. From that we starting looking at that we are going to start prioritizing the natural resources and Ed Melendez is contacting the Department of Natural Resources and looking at plant species such as wooded areas or trees and looking at a value scale, in a sense. How we value certain Oak, compared to maybe a Cottonwood or something to that effect. Looking at that, then the argument is from the one side of table, is that I like Cottonwood’s. They serve a purpose. The other side is I do not like seeing the little dust, white balls that are coming off of that. It has been proven quite a debate on how to do this. We are, at the next meeting, deciding that we are going to sit down and throw in a formula in how to deal with these situations. What areas we are going to exclude that they can not develop such as steep slopes, wet lands, flight plains and other environmental features. But in situations were there is a wooded track that they could development, how are they going to go about doing it. Everybody agrees that we can cluster to stay out of it with services. With well and septics, that is where is a hang up and there is a big debate. Some say yes we can preserve it. Others say, no, we should be able to develop it. So, that is where we are at.”

Com. Harper, “Are you still going to have something by the 7th?”

Mr. Thompson, “I am really hoping that we have something by the 7th. I think we will. Yes.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “An ordinance?”

Mr. Thompson, “An ordinance. Well, if we don’t have the ordinance, we have the recommendations on how to go forth with an ordinance and how to amend the ordinance existing.”

Com. Harper, “I thought that is what we are going to do. Have either an ordinance or an amended to the ordinance, ready by the 7th.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Yes, we are going to have to have with our strict time frame that we are under, I think, we are probably going to have a document not a recommendation. We are going to have a written something. Either that we are going to pass on to the Plan Commission or reject it or whatever. We can’t just get a recommendation of any kind. It has to be documented.”

Mr. Thompson, “I guess what we were looking at is an actual report with amendments to the existing ordinances so approved by the Commissioners to be forwarded back, is what I am going for. I am going to try to have a proposed ordinance done.”

Com. Harper, “Because our choices are, reject, accept or amend.”
Atty. Rinkenberger, “Right.”

Com. Harper, “Those are our choices.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Either reject the original one, adopt the original one or send it back with a proposed amendment to the original one and then the Plan Commission would have forty-five days to look at those amendments. They have to be, they can’t be kind of like this idea.”

Com. Harper, “Right.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “It has to be specific.”

Mr. Thompson, “I guess to throw in a few other things, the committee is starting to also to agree to look at the possibility of bringing in drainage facilities into the open space requirement as far as pods. If they are kept in certain design standards and if it can be proven that this would an amenity to the committee. Everybody agrees that there has to be certain development standards put into it to make sure that it can handle a quiet life and won’t just end up being a cat tailor algae pool. That it would have to be an amenity. Everybody agreed that if certain development standards are put with it, it could be an amenity and it could be used for recreation also with an area around it so that way the residents can use it. Again, we don’t have those design standards set up. I am trying to think what else.”

Com. Burrus, “Bob, has your representative from the consultant been following your meetings?”

Mr. Thompson, “Not yet. Last week he was on vacation and this week, ..”

Com. Harper, “He means the consultant wants someone to work with. To schedule meetings and so forth. Bob asked me if he could be that person. I said we would have to talk about it. Because they need a letter, a police schedule….”

Com. Evans, “I agree, but I am a little disappointed that he has not been able to, I thought we made it pretty clear to him that we wanted this done in a priority manner. We are disappointed that he has not stayed involved and has not been participating in the meetings up to this point.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Because we can expect him to be able to add the language from other ordinances, from other municipalities or something. You know what I am saying?”

Com. Evans, “We are spending an extra $6,000.00 I thought to get this done and in a timely fashion with his assistance and input. Maybe, we need to remind him of that.”

Mr. Thompson, “Yes.”

Com. Evans, “Okay.”

Com. Burrus, “I will hand things over to you with a broader experience, certainly, a high level of professionalism he should have a contribution to this.”

Mr. Thompson, “I mean as far as bringing in other ordinances, I have a whole slew.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Is there any that address governmental standards for ponds?”

Mr. Thompson, “That I don’t have. No.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “You might.”

Mr. Thompson, “As far as conservation sub-division preservation of natural resources, open space sub-division, I just have a whole slew of them. The number that has gone up to committees to look forward to trying to develop a ___. Nobody disagrees that there should not be open space with any kind of development. It is just how do you deal with it?”

Com. Evans, “I for one, like the formal ideal of maybe it requires two formulas. One for city utilities and one for well and septic. Different formulas for different ..”

Mr. Thompson, “That is exactly what we are looking at.”

Com. Harper, “Let’s not make this too complicated. You have ordinances from around the state.”

Mr. Thompson, “Correct.”

Com. Harper, “That deal with this and I am like John, I there could be discussion but let’s come up with something. Because we can talk this to death.”

Com. Evans, “I thought that the consultant was well aware of our time constraint.”

Com. Burrus, “I know that was made a point.”

Com. Evans, “Rattle his cage.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Hang on.”

Com. Burrus, “You know it is not a case of the information not be available. Certainly he could collect samples from everywhere. But that is passing information. What we were expecting was to have some acting participation and discussion and possibly help facilitate the discussion.”

Com. Evans, “By the consultant. I mean he was able to come up with a charge for that service. That service performed.”

Mr. Thompson, “Right.”

Com. Harper, “Instantly.”

Com. Burrus, “Not just following the progress of the committee, I was just wondering about the performance of the consultant.”

Atty. Rinkenberger. “We are the clients. We are not going to want to see a document on September 7th at 4:55 p.m. either. Do you see what I am saying? This proposal is something that everybody is going to want to see.”

Mr. Thompson, “I understand that. I am doing everything in my power.”

Com. Evans, “I know we put you under the gun. But we thought that the consultant was going to be kind of a ..”

Mr. Thompson, “I have been sending him everything that was have done. The reports that you see. They have been sent to him.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Maybe I _____.”

Com. Evans, “Could you relay our conversation in this meeting to him today and tell him that we would truly like to have his input on.. immediately.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Within the next two weeks.”

Mr. Thompson, “My goal is to, right now, is with the committee. That they were going to come out with recommendations at the next meeting which was set Tuesday at 7:30 here.”

Com. Harper, “A.M.”

Mr. Thompson, “A.M. To figure out, excuse me, thank you. To come up with recommendations try to develop the formulas and then have one more meeting after that which the composed ordinance would be shown to him.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Is he coming to those meetings?”

Mr. Thompson, “I e-mailed him all of that information. Again, the contract states one trip up. I sent him this information.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “(Inaudible).”

Com. Evans, “I don’t think that is what he come up with the numbers that it would cost to his contract. To increase his contract.”

Mr. Thompson, “Open space part.”

Com. Evans, “Yes, it was.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “One trip up?”

Mr. Thompson, “Right.”

Com. Harper, “Why don’t you find out where he is at and let us know about. Find out if he has started to put something together based on what you have sent him and let’s see where we are at.”

Com. Evans, “You might just interject there that we are less than pleased with his performance at this point.”

Mr. Thompson, “Okay.”

Com. Burrus, “Is there anything else on your report then?”

Mr. Thompson, “No, other than I was just going to say within the contract the Commissioners had to appoint somebody that needs to be the front person. Bob, you are it.”

Com. Evans, moved to approve, Com. Harper, seconded, motion carried.

Com. Burrus, “By my notes that is the last item on the agenda that we have here. Does anyone here have anything beyond that?”

Mr. Bucko, “I want to talk about the universal contractor licensing concept. There was an article in this morning’s Vidette about that. That is something that our Association is really interested in. Some of the guys have talked to it prior to the open space concept, a long time ago. In looking at Porter County there are ten different planning jurisdictions, I believe, and including the County that makes eleven. Is that right, Bob? Is that about what you thought. Where you would have to go get some kind of permit to do business. If you are a contractor when you are going to ____ to a building. I think that is about right. Well, I remember the early 1980’s, the state passed a law, a universal bond law. Where contractors could come and get a bond to do business in Porter County. Porter makes a time. I wanted to know just know, just talk about in general terms if you gentlemen would be interested in supporting a similar type of law or registering or licensing of contractors so that you wouldn’t have to be licensed in all these individual communities which is really difficult for all the guys to do business because they always have to worry about being current. Well, you know what I am talking about. It is a challenge. It would be a lot easier if big counties, such as ours, if you could do a one time shot. Maybe an annual renewal, we have a change of thinking through on all the different options but before I pursue this with the Legislature I need to where you are at. To discuss this briefly, what is a reasonable thing for the contractors and builders so they don’t have the burden of all these different requirements. I know Bill Duggen told me he is licensed in seventeen different localities.”

Com. Harper, “Mike, I have a question for you.”

Mr. Bucko, “Yes.”

Com. Harper, “We have eleven plan commissions apparently in you can work in Porter County.”

Mr. Bucko, “I think, if I counted right.”

Com. Harper, “How many of them other Portage do not require the contractors to be licensed other than Porter County, who requires them to be licensed.”

Mr. Bucko, “(Inaudible). Oh, yes. Absolutely.”

Com. Harper, “I understand Valpo does. Right, Valpo and Chesterton does and Portage does and Burns Harbor does. Doesn’t Porter County? Why has it .. How is it to be that Porter County has never required bonding and licensing and so forth for contractors.”

Mr. Bucko, “They require bonding. It is a state law. Licensing, I think, but I can’t speak for this Bob, in great specifics, other than in generalities but I think it was because if you license a contractor then that means there is some connotation that this contractor is a valid contractor and if something goes wrong ____.”

Com. Harper, “Well, Lake County licenses contractors and LaPorte County does, Starke and Jasper. My question is why doesn’t Porter?”

Mr. Bucko, “I don’t know. That subject never came up before me as a Commissioner, I can tell you that. I do not remember any specific discussion.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “(Inaudible).”

Com. Harper, “I think it has been brought up and voted down.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “Well, Bob Thompson might have some insight on this, right Bob?”

Mr. Thompson, “Yes. I looked at it and one of the things I guess I was concerned about is the fact that the county would make it look like some contractors need promoted by the county in a sense. Since then, I have talked with the St. Joseph County who also looks over South Bend. He said you just have to remember one thing, this is not a consumer protection and it is not required of the county or the city to be consumer protective. You still have to do the research.”

Com. Harper, “The way this came up is one of the member’s of the Plan Commission also has to get these licenses and he was absolutely shocked that he didn’t have to get one in Porter County, therefore, he was assigned to committing a study but that is how it came up. It was somebody that is already on the Plan Commission.”

Com. Burrus, “Your proposal or concept of this thing is such that if the county were to issue contract licenses that would supercede or eliminate the need or requirement of the cities to do it.”

Mr. Thompson, “We have had to change state law to do that.”

Com. Burrus, “I mean that is what you are suggesting?”

Mr. Thompson, “Yes, to explore the possibility of a state law to allow that to happen.”

Com. Burrus, “I think that the requirement for the unincorporated areas of Porter County is valid. It makes sense. I can’t see stacking it on top of several other licensing requirements that are already there. So if one could do it all, that would be great.”

Mr. Bucko, “And quite frankly you talk to the business they don’t have a big problem with this. That will help keep out some of the riff – raff it is good for business. But it is very burdensome to them to have to go to all of the different jurisdictions so they are not fighting the concept it is just that can we do this at a one stop shop. I don’t know if we can or can’t but until I had a discussion with you gentlemen, I really don’t want to carry it any further because it would be senseless of me to pursue this.”

Com. Harper, “Well, it seems to me that we need to discuss it. We need to try to change the state laws, not us, but State Representatives.”

Mr. Bucko, “Well, yes, but they are going to ask the County Commissioners for their opinions on this.”

Com. Harper, “Well, it seems to be best to be talked out.”

Mr. Bucko, “Very good, I have my answer from you. I think I understand what you are saying. Let’s see where it goes.”

Com. Evans, “I don’t know if I agree with the part that it is not our duty to protect the citizens of this town.”

Com. Harper, “I think you are right.”

Com. Evans, “I think we do have a duty to protect the citizens of this county. If you have someone that has to go to a municipality and get a license to perform a service and he doesn’t have to do that in the County jurisdiction so he doesn’t do the municipalities. He doesn’t do work in the city. He simply does work in the county. He may not be qualified to do that work in the cities. Some of the cities give tests.”

Mr. Bucko, “Right.”

Com. Evans, “To read a proficiency that this person may not have. That we are allowing to practice their trade in our county.”

Atty. Rinkenberger, “I know you hit the nail on the head, if you go back and look at the minutes or check on some of the discussions that we have been having _______ that hung everybody up because somebody that has to prepare the tests, perform the tests, grade the tests, monitor the test, issue the licenses, keep track of the bonds, revoke the licenses, again that was going to be another person from the Plan Commission. As I recall, that is kind of where it always started to fall. The cost of implementation not because it was not a good idea.”

Com. Harper, “John’s right.”

Com. Burrus, “We do have some double jeopardy ensue just because we have a licensing requirement that doesn’t say that the municipalities don’t have to have one. So they already have something set up to collect the fees and do the testing that they require. Some of them it is simply is a matter of registering and showing that you have insurance. You don’t have to be proficient at anything.”

Mr. Thompson, “Worker’s Compensation.”

Com. Burrus, “Yes.”

Mr. Thompson, “Worker’s Compensation and liability. You have to file so much liability insurance and you must provide a bond. The bond, though, is extremely limited on what it can be used for. If a builder inspector goes in and finds that there is a building violation and red tags it and the contractor refuses to make those corrections, then the bond could be pulled. So, yes I agree, it is protecting the people.”

Mr. Bucko, “Is it still five grand?”

Mr. Thompson, “Yes. It is still $5,000.00. Five thousand dollars can only go so far. The other thing is though if it is not a building violation or a building code violation but the builder and the client are disagreeing on something there is nothing .. the bond can not be pulled. It can only be pulled strictly for building code violations. Yes, there is it is protecting the people. I will agree with you. Licensing. It does require a test. There are, I think a firm that is set up in the state that has a standardized test. They can come in and provide the test, will grade it and give the results back but again there is a fee with that. So, I mean that part can be taken care of in an out source. In that sense, a municipality is not required to do this. I don’t know if Portage does that or not. Registration is simply to add the liability to the Worker’s Compensation with the bond in place.”

Mr. Bucko, “Can you repeat our question?”

Com. Burrus, “Yes, sir. A portion of the fee is generated for the licensing, could we at least use for education such as home repair fraud or expanding the education that is being done currently?”

Com. Burrus, “I think, if I understood the concept, from my perspective, it would be a neutral revenue situation. Such as, any fees collected would simply offset the cost of administering the program.”

Com. Harper, “There is a member of the Plan Commission who is also licenses in seventeen other jurisdictions. He was supposed to make a report back of different kinds they have to the next Plan Commission meeting and how it is done. Mike Sheets.”

Mr. Bucko, “When is he supposed to report back, Bob?”

Com. Harper, “I can’t remember. I think it was two weeks.”

Mr. Thompson, “Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate your conversations here.”

Com. Burrus, “Any further business? We stand in recess.”

Com. Evans moved to recess, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

With no further business to discuss the meeting was recessed.


BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
PORTER COUNTY, INDIANA

David L. Burrus
John A. Evans
Robert P. Harper


Attest: Sandra K. Vuko, Auditor