PORTER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY, JUNE 15, 2004
10:00 a.m.

The regular meeting of the Porter County Board of Commissioners convened at 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 in the Commissioners' Chambers of the Administration Center.

Those present were Commissioners David Burrus, John Evans and Bob Harper and County Attorney Gwenn Rinkenberger.

President David Burrus called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance at 10:00 a.m.

APPROVAL OF PAYROLL

Com. Harper "I would like to make a comment on that. Obviously there was some misunderstanding last week over offices being open at the Courthouse and I want to go over that again, the procedure. Number one, it is my understanding that the Commissioners are a board and when they do business they do it in public and since the procedures have been established for snow days and President Burrus has been, by vote, given that authority by the other commissioners to make those decisions so it is not necessary to have a meeting on snow days. Although the Open Door people downstate said if you would happen to have snow days, you should at least post it and notice it. So, the decision has been made and Com. Burrus makes those decisions. The Commissioners don't run the other offices, they are elected officials but there are state statutes that specifically deal with the courthouse being open and with the various offices in the courthouse, such as the Assessor and Recorder, and just all the various offices. The statutes read for example that the Assessor, Auditor etc. should keep their offices in the building provided by the county seat by the county executive, they should keep their office open for business hours during regular business hours during every day of the year except Sundays, and legal holidays. However, they may close their offices on the dates specified by the county executive according to custom and practice. So to make it clear, when a request is made as to whether the buildings are going to be closed or the building is not going to be closed unless there is a meeting held of the executive because that is the only way that the decision can be made and that meeting has to be noticed under the law, the executive can't make that decision. The Executive doesn't have the power to do that. Because if we don't follow those rules, we have an employee handbook and if we don't follow those rules, ciaos would reign, I'm afraid. And the good thing is most county employees consider themselves county employees and are employed together but they also consider that they should have equal treatment with the other employees and if they don't, it makes for bad morale of the offices. I just wanted to make that statement that I think the Commissioners do have that responsibility placed upon them and last week they did not choose to hold a meeting because they did not choose to close the courthouse. As I have said before, we checked with other counties around the state, every surrounding county of Porter County and as far as I know, no counties closed in the state. I know the ones around us were all open. Now it is time to put that chapter behind us but I just wanted to make that clear that in the future, we need to follow those rules for good employee relationship."

Com. Evans, "I will take that one step further. On Friday, I called the front desk and I asked them to keep a log of all the people that came to this building and asked to see those offices that were closed. The Auditor's office, the Assessor's office and the Recorder's office were all closed. The Treasurer's office was open, the Center Township Assessor was open, she called later and said she was there. I have heard it reported there were no complaints that the offices were closed and that some of the office holders called those places that they normally would do business with and told them they wouldn't be there and everybody said it was okay. I want to read you the list of the complaints that were handled by our switchboard and some are partial complaints because some of the complainants that called were too belligerent to be listened to and others were referred to the Commissioners who asked to talk to the Commissioners in person. The Auditor's office received 60 complaints; 1 person wanted to lodge a complaint, he called the Auditor's office on Thursday, June 10, and was informed they would be open. He complained that he and his wife both took off work to come in. The Assessor's office received 43 complaints; one person informed the switchboard that the County Assessor employee informed them on Wednesday, June 9, to come in on Friday, June 11. The Recorder's office received 52 complaints. One person drove from Ft. Wayne, Indiana and had called on June 8 and was told they would open for business. It doesn't speak too well of any unity in county government. There have been statements made that Commissioner Burrus and myself would not make any reference to these articles because we are running for office; well those people don't know me very well. because if it is wrong, it's wrong; I don't care if I am running for office or not. I tried to rationalize the decision that the three office holders made to close last Friday in honor of former President Reagan, a man I truly revered myself. But try as I might, I couldn't rationalize it. I don't think there is any justification for their actions. The Constitution of the State of Indiana is very clear in defining that the county offices, what the county offices are and what they do. The pretext that was used, "We are elected officials and we can do what we want" is also very clear in its meaning. The oath of office one takes when they are elected to serve in public office has a person swear that they will uphold the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the State of Indiana and it also requires that elected officials swear or affirm that they will discharge the duties of their office to the best of their ability; that didn't happen here. The decision to keep Porter County Government open was made last Tuesday by the people empowered to make it. We didn't send out a notice we were going to be open next Friday because we don't sent notices we are going to open next Friday at any time. To further complicate this matter, attempts have been made to justify the actions of the closing. The Commissioners do not claim to have control over any elected office holder but without Commissioner approval, their employees would not be paid; they cannot enter into contracts; and they would not even have a physical office space to close. I really thought this matter would be resolved, I thought the three office holders would admit they made a mistake, but instead they have chosen to defend their actions and actually their actions are indefensible. The time has come for everyone to know that their actions are not appropriate and the people in Porter County were not served."

Com. Evans moved to approve the payroll of June 14, 2004, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Sandy Vuko, "I think this is very unfair and I think this is being political even though Mr. Evans said it wasn't. But as an elected official, I have a problem with some members on your staff who seem to think they are elected officials and come and go as they please and . . ."

Com. Evans, "On our staff? On whose staff?"

Ms. Vuko, "On your staff."

Com. Evans, "Who would that be?"

Ms. Vuko, "I am not going to say. You know who I am talking about."

Com. Evans, "No, I don't."

Ms. Vuko, "You don't? Then you are welcome to come over and look at the time cards. I keep the time cards. Your employee is not elected and acts like an elected official. You know, my girls have comp time and they have been working double time to get their work done so because I chose to close . . ."

Com. Evans, "You don't have that right. You don't have the right to close your office."

Ms. Vuko, "'Well, you have the right to make sure your employees follow the law also with the time cards."

Com. Evans, "I would suggest if you think there is something amiss in our department that you bring it to our attention as soon as you know it is amiss."

Ms. Vuko, "It has been like that for the past three years."

Com. Evans, "And this is the first we are hearing of it, in a public meeting? Trying to cover up for what you have done in the past?"

Com. Burrus, "I think we've covered this enough. Let's continue on."

Ms. Vuko, "What I have done? If anyone wants to come over and look at the time cards, they can find out who the employee is."

Com. Burrus, "Any further comments from the Board?"

Com. Evans, "No."

Com. Harper, "No."

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Com. Harper moved to approve the minutes of April 20, 2004, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.


ENVIRONMENTAL SOLUTIONS GROUP-REMEDIATION PROTOCOL
Brian Gericke, ESG

Mr. Gericke, "In our ongoing process here, we invited four contractors to do a walk through instead of bids for the work and clean up at the courthouse. The four contractors that we invited were Rainbow, Serv, Americlean. Only one contractor has declined the walk through because of the workload that it would affect their timing and effort to get the projects satisfactorily done at this point due to their work schedules. They declined to go through on the walk through. In their place we might check the Environmental Services out in Crown Point. They way we still have 4 contractors to go through the walk through and submit proposals for the bids. We did the walk through on June 7th. Like I said, all these contractors we invited were there at the walk through. The bids that we received, actually 2 companies did not submit sufficient bids. One company I did not receive any bids at all for, that was from America Clean. Serve Pros submitted a bid as to how many man hours they basically thought that, they did a material type bid on this project, so they just submitted price per man hour. I called them back and asked if they would give us a better indication of what their price may be. They sent me a cap, a total cap, that once they reached that cap, they wouldn't do more work. I did not receive anything on that as well. The other 2 companies, Champion Environmental Services and Rayborn National did submit bids. Champion Environmental Services their original bid did not include, which we asked for additional work to do in Judge Alexa's office, we asked for a separate bid for that. Originally they did not include that. I called them back and they resubmitted that price. In doing that also, they lowered their initial bids, approximately about $200.00. We also asked them to give all the contractors a separate bid for doing regular business hours, basically like a 7 to 5 or an 8 to 5 type work, or after hours and weekends so those bids are also included in here. The breakdown again, Rayborn National, basically the total to do Judge Alexa's office, regular business hours, came in at $11,728.00. Champion Environmental Services was $8,750.00. After hour work for Rayborn National was $14,188.00 and Champion was $10,650.00. We were also asked to submit estimated price for our involvement in the project management. Our fee for that is outlined there. We are also including doing follow-up samples to make sure that the air quality is still sufficient after the new work that price there, we are estimate approximately 8 samples to do that. We are also estimating approximately 35 hours to conduct all this work and provide some oversight for this project. So our estimate is just about $3,275.00. That would be basically like the worst case scenario, providing that we use all those hours. That includes Certified Indoor Environmentalists. That ran it to 35 hours, plus the $1,000.00 for the sampling, that is what total would be."

Com. Burrus, "Would you have an estimate in here for having an Environmental Technician out there that would be a lower price. We are going to try to use those individuals that can reduce the cost down to a minimum. So that's basically the summary of what we have here today."

Com. Burrus, "Thank you, Brian. Just a question quickly here from me. In view of the quotes that you have from the 2 firms that responded, do you have a recommendation?"

Mr. Gerike, "Basically, I felt both contractors are qualified to do the work. So as far as my recommendation, I guess the best thing maybe to do is to look at what is more cost effective and go that route."

Com. Burrus, "Okay."

Com. Harper, "Champion Environmental Services approximately faxed us a proposal dated June 10th. Is that the proposal you are working on?"

Mr. Gerike, "June 10th I believe was the original bid."

Com. Harper, "Let me see what we have. I just wondered if that is what you are working on."

Mr. Gerike, "What they did is I have the 2 bids. Both of them are dated June 10th. The one originally did not have the extra work for Judge Alexa's office."

Atty Rinkenberger, "You should have 2, one Champion and one just came in 5 minutes ago. It has the June 10th date on it."

Com. Harper, "Can I see that one, the one that just came in?"

Mr. Gerike, "The original bids, basically they had $8,500.00 to do the work on regular hours. The other one they reduced the price to $8,300.00. But that one includes $450.00 to the additional work in Judge Alexa's office."

Com. Harper, "So if they do the work on Friday, Saturday and Monday, would you be there when they did it?"

Mr. Gerike, "I probably would not be there the whole time but I would certainly be there throughout the project just to make sure. Basically, I would be there to get them started, make sure they are going in the right process and the right direction. Then we would have people check periodically throughout the project to make sure that everything is going well. Of course, I would be available for questions or any problems they may have."

Com. Harper, "So I hear that you are recommending we take Champion."

Mr. Gerike, "Yes, I would say that Champion would be the recommendation because they were the lowest bid. I believe both contractors that submitted bids are qualified to do the work."

Com. Harper moved to accept the bid from Champion Environmental Services,

Com. Burrus, "Did you hear that, John?"

Com. Evans, "Yes. I will second that but I have a couple of questions. Brian, is there any reason to believe that your time involved, the 35 hours, would exceed that amount?"

Mr. Gerike, "I don't think it would exceed that amount. Unless for some reason there are some problems that came up that would make that go beyond 35. I don't see that being a problem. We just kind of estimated 35 just to give a bid estimate, or to have some numbers there."

Com. Evans, "Would that also be your estimate for the total completion of the job?"

Mr. Gerike, "Yes. Our total price. That would basically be the worse case scenario, seeing that everything went fine, not exceeding 35 hours plus sampling that would be the price."

Com. Evans seconded the motion,

Com. Burrus, "Two comments, but first a question. Brian, what would be left for us to do when they are finished. Would there be any restoration required?"

Mr. Gerike, "Yes, there would. There would be a re-plastering or patching up the areas. Basically what we are going to do is scraping these areas. I told them to try to get into an intake level meeting as they scrape it. There is going to be come paint and plaster and some stuff coming off. It seems like it is going, and going, and going. We won't go that far, we are just going to get basically where the water damage areas and stuff are like that. We don't want to tear down a whole wall. They will scrape as much of the water damage areas and go beyond that just to the small extent that they need to. There would be come work that would have to be done, to go back and patch these areas and stuff like that."

Com. Burrus, "There is no restoration cleaning in their price."

Mr. Gerike, "No. They don't do the restoration work so we didn't figure that."

Com. Burrus, "We don't have an additional amount there to deal with, to date. So we do have a motion and a second on the floor for the recommendation to use Champion Environmental Services after hours. We will take a vote on that in a moment and then we will come back and we will address the ESG separately."

Motion carried.

Com. Burrus, "We will entertain a motion for ESG as far as their testing and supervisory work.

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Com. Burrus, "Brian, I believe you are ready to go. You will take charge of contacting Champion and letting them know and scheduling."

Mr. Gerike, "Yes. We will get that scheduled as soon as we can."

Com. Burrus, "Then as far as access to the spaces, you are familiar with the procedure there, after hours. I assume. Contacting Charlotte from maintenance for access to the spaces. We can give you the contact numbers and so forth. Anything else you need in the meantime, you just let us know."

Mr. Gerike, "Okay. Thank you."

Com. Burrus, "Thank you very much. Next item on our agenda was indicated to be a discussion from the Fair Board, or at least with the Fair Board regarding the Expo Center Site. That has been postponed at their request until possibly the next meeting. Moving on then to Office Holders from Department Heads.

OFFICE HOLDERS/DEPARTMENT HEADS

Interim Agreement for Radio Project
Dave Sheibels, E-911 Director
Mr. Sheibels, "Good morning. There are 2 items this morning. The first item is an Interim Occupancy Agreement with Tom Tittle, a company called Aqua Land Communications. It is a simple no cost agreement that Tom who is to my left has entered in with us. He is willing to give us the start of putting our new radio systems in that we just finished awarding that bid 2 weeks ago, so that Minor Electronic can start work at that site. It is a very simple agreement, I forwarded a copy to Gwenn about a week or so ago. I didn't get any particular response. The only cost involved in this currently is that we will have to, and I can do this with the coordination of the work here, we will have to start a REMC utility meter installation at the shed and start paying for power, to power the shed, the building where the equipment is going to be going into. To take on those initial utility costs. For an example, we get charged $96.00 a month from Midwest for utility at the 600 North site so it is going to be pretty minor, I believe, except for an installation cost, of course. It probably would be a couple of hundred dollars. This lets us get going. I already notified Anton Insurance to provide Tom a certificate of County insurance in case any County employees, myself, go on site, Tom is protected. Standard type of Agreement. Anton will be forwarding that to Tom here shortly, if they haven't already. Other than that, we have the keys as indicated on this Agreement. We just need this signed by the Board of Commissioners so we can access the site. To start real work there, we are ready to go."

Com. Burrus, "Any comments or discuss from the Board?"

Com. Harper, "I have a question. There is no charge under this Lease."

Mr. Sheibels, "Correct. Mr. Tittle has agreed not to charge us the Lease fee until our Midwest Lease Contract expires the end of November. We will be back with Mr. Tittle probably sometime at a November meeting with an actual Lease Agreement to carry on the site leasing from that point on. He has agreed to work with the County and not charge us any Lease fee whatsoever so we don't have to pay, current Lease fees at our existing sites that we are operating on now and have another Lease fee to endure in these interim months until the end of November."

Com. Harper, "We are trying to start doing work on, put an investment in his facility now."

Mr. Sheibels, "Correct. Our equipment will be …"

Com. Harper, "So when the time the Lease comes up, what we need is an advantage to negotiating a Lease, if we have already paid him money and we have been investing money into it, we will not have much choice but we are going to have to stay there. Right?."

Mr. Sheibels, "We have pretty much made a commitment that is exactly where we are going. We have had a conversation with Mr. Tittle for quite a well. If you would like to respond to that."

Com. Harper, "My question is, have we reached some agreement on what our rentals are going to be once we start paying rent?"

Mr. Sheibels, "Mr. Tittle does have some preliminary figures on this.

Mr. Tittle, "At the bottom of that proposal, sir, you will see that it is based upon the number of antennas and the height on the towers. It is because of field testing that has to be conducted that we can't really say. I have quoted in there what the rights are and that will be calculated based upon what the vendor feels they need to put up there to cover the County."

Com. Harper, "Do you have any estimates?"

Mr. Sheibels, "I don't know how many antennas they are proposing. But it not going to exceed what you are presenting paying because the vendor is planning to combine the 5 department radio systems on just 2 antennas, where presently they are separate."

Com. Harper, "Do you rent other space on this tower?"

Mr. Sheibels, "Yes."

Com. Harper, "Are we going to pay the same rate that they others pay?"

Mr. Tittle, "It will be slightly less. Then you will also have your own building, which is one of the real points of interest. I might also mention, Mr. Sheibels mentioned having a meter. The meter is already there. All I am asking for is reimbursement for the electricity that is used there until the Lease if formulated. There is air conditioning and electric heat, which you won't need the heat this time of year."

Com. Harper, "Dave, where is that in the contract?"

Mr. Sheibels, "The County is liable for utility charges. It is just to protect us from an insurance standpoint and let the County build the system while the other ones are still in operation. Then as the other ones are discontinued, the new equipment will be in operation. It can be tested. It won't be a case of starting from scratch. They will have a chance to test during the period of time, if they need to."

Com. Burrus, "I think that is an important feature too and the fact that we can not afford to have it elapse for a time to experiement."

Mr. Tittle, "That is why I am offering this. The building is there and it would be dedicated strictly to local government entities. There will not be any other users in that building, except perhaps another police department. Portage may choose to place a receiver there or some other municipality. Chesterton. But you will not have the people in and out of that facility."

Com. Harper, "Even though we are going to have our own building, we are going to be charged for that ___ space? Correct."

Mr. Tittle, "The same as you would if have floor space in our existing building but it will be a private facility."

Com. Harper, "How much do you charge for floor space in your existing building?"

Mr. Tittle, "Well, the floor space is usually figured into the price of the antenna, the amount of the equipment, the power consumption, such as the paging transmitter. It is a case by case basis. The rats exist in this building, it was an Internet hut. The building is about 3 years old. I believe Mr. Sheibels and some of the other people have inspected it so they know."

Mr. Sheibels, "It is beautiful, very clean, it looks brand new. It really has not had any use. We have been pointing to this building for well over a year as to how to move and transition our old systems into a new system."

Com. Harper, "How much is our investment going to be in that, roughly, that we are going to put into that building before we sign that final contract?"

Mr. Sheibels, "We just did a bid for $288,000.00. It will be the better part of a quarter of a million dollars worth of equipment."

Com. Harper, "We are going to install that before the final contract?"

Mr. Sheibels, "Right. What we are doing is, what Tom has agreed to do here is just allows him to cover the few miscellaneous expenses, utilities, and get insurance coverage on the building so the equipment can go because our equipment has to be in operation first before we turn off the old equipment. This has turned out to be an excellent opportunity for us, this is going to make for a very, very smooth transition with this decision of going into a new facility. We have scratched our heads for many months as to how to transition this. We could have just stayed in the Midwest facility and keep both systems running and using duplicating floor space and attendance space. Now this solves all the problems. We are moving into a brand new facility which ultimately will cost us a lot less money. We have already notified Midwest that our two tower sites that we are not going to be renewing our lease agreements there. Hopefully those went out a few weeks ago. So we are right on track with this site and for our new equipment in and when that equipment is up and running we can simply walk over to the old sites, pull the plug on the old equipment. It was in the bid the vendor also would remove our old equipment and will store that at the county garage until we decide if we are going to auction it off. So everything is right on track and this is just Tom's agreement to get us into the site right now."

Com. Burrus, "Is it like a letter of intent?"

Com. Harper, "I think we should have an idea of what we are signing, because this lease is up and . .(inaudible) and we have already made a substantial investment. I think we should justify our, if we enter a lease of this kind we should have an idea of what the rental ____ appears to be written. We put a lot of time and effort into this and I appreciate the fact that they are letting us use it and I think it is a good idea but we should have an idea of what this document is. Or else you are absolutely just signing it as we have it now."

Mr. Tittle, "Well, you have two leases, and one of these provides for, if I can refer to here, looks like there are three at one location and four at the other, total of seven."

Mr. Sheibels, "We end up with two antennas as Tom mentioned for the microwave agreement. So we are going to have three sets."

Com. Burrus, "No matter what the technical calculations come out to be, it is going to be less than half."

Mr. Tittle, "Than those two leases you have now."

Com. Evans, "I think it is a very generous offer, in fact I think the term we are on the current tower and be guaranteed that the rent alone charged is going to be less than what would occur at the bank. I personally can speak for Mr. Tittle's reputation and I know he is honest and I know he is not intending to back up on his word."

Com. Harper, "I am still saying that we are committing ourselves with this language that the utilities will be .. and I am sure there's a better way. We should have __ the contract."

Com. Burrus, "It is tacked down as close as we can get it with respect to the cost per vertical foot and the maximum height for the number of antennas."

Mr. Tittle, "Your vendor has a lot to do with this too, they have to fix a field test. So all I can do is tell you what."

Com. Harper, "We do these things, in no way questioning ___."

Com. Burrus, "Yes, Chief Lain."

Chief Lain, "Well, of course I have been a part of the process, ongoing too. I think as Commissioner Evans says this is a very generous offer. I don't feel to ___ some of Commissioner Harper's fears. This wouldn't even necessarily lock us into anything. I mean the other towers still do exist. There is, of course, going to be an investment. Because there is going to be ___ that is still your large investment. That can be moved at to whatever site with those movement costs, of course. But I don't feel that this is a potential moving situation. Right now, there are a few towers available. Mr. Tittle has stepped forward long before this process and said I want to work with public safety in Porter County. He showed himself time and time again to be community minded. He is local. The company that we have been utilizing, they are in Wisconsin and don't have the community commitment that Mr. Tittle does. If worst comes to worst, which I certainly don't think is ever going to happen, we still have the quarter of a million dollars of equipment we can always move."

Com. Harper, "I am done asking questions."

Com. Burrus, "Thank you both."

Com. Burrus, moved to approve. Com. Evans, seconded. Motion carried.

Com. Harper, "Do you have something else?"

Memorandum of Understanding With Integrated Public Safety Commission

Chief Lain, "Yes. I have one more document. Vi, I believe, made copies for everybody. This is a Memorandum for the understanding between the Integrated Public Safety Commission and Porter County. Otherwise, known as Project Safe-T-System. A state wide system. Now we have reached a point where our bids included the JPS and their optibility system which converts our high band VHF frequencies. If we to ever have a disaster or something you could communicate with any state agencies on the state system. It allots us to get our frequency on the state system, a apart of our last bid package. This I now present to you is the broiler plate, MOU, the state came up with to send to all counties that sent this now that we are about ready to connect to the system, it is time to have this approved and signed by the Board of Commissioners. There is no cost involved in this. This is simply an understanding between the Integrated Public Safety Commission, as they call themselves, or Safe-T-System_____. This is just allowing us to utilize the Safe-T-System that we are about ready to connect to. I think under the guidelines of the Safe-T-System for coming on to that system and putting equipment on that this, as to those types of things. It is a very straight forward memo of understanding. For whatever reason the Public Safety Commission wanted this sign on at the Commissioner level first. Most of these Public Safety MOU's get signed off at the Sheriff level. They wanted it signed off at the Commissioner level as a sign off page on the back is, of course, for Porter County Commissioner. Either one signature or all three signatures. They will take one signature."

Com. Burrus, "Discussion. Questions?"

Com. Harper, "The frequency that they are on, for us to be on that frequency. Am I understanding this correctly."

Chief Lain, "Any time a County has a Public Safety System it wants to connect to Project Safe-T-System. Now it is time for the County to enter into this Memorandum of understanding with them."

Com. Harper, "We couldn't do this before the 5th because we couldn't communicate with them before the 5th."

Chief Lain, "Exactly."

Com. Harper, "Dave, what is going to happen to those departments that aren't getting this new program? Not everybody is going to be able to communicate on this frequency. Correct?"

Mr. Sheibels, "We bought a system made by Rayathon. It is called a JPS 1000. It allows us to convert our high vent FMs to the state so if, and this is expandable system so at such time. Let's say, for an example, the Valpo Dispatch Consolidation ____ comes of maturity. They come in to County dispatch. We would have Valpo Police frequency into the JMP System so at such time there would be some disaster or civil emergency where we need to talk to state agencies, you take that ___ at the console level, the radio console level. It is all software controlled. They just point and click and attach the Valpo police frequency to Safe-T- or it will attach the Porter County Sheriff frequency or it'll attach Porter County Fire frequency or Porter County EMA frequency and even our system that we brought Porter County Highway to the Safe-T-System."

Com. Harper, "Based on, what money do you have in these grants now? Are there any agencies that are using our system right now that won't be able to communicate with this thing?"

Mr. Sheibels, "From the dispatch level, at this point in time, only County dispatch will have the ability to change 4 channels into Safe-T-System. As time goes on, of course, it's a County wide inter-portability system. ____ the fact that if Portage or Valparaiso, Chesterton, Porter, Hebron, all those places that might have private public safety frequencies want to come on board to the Safe-T-System, the invitation is open."

Com. Harper, "Well, then all our fire agencies and so forth can go through you and be able to communicate."

Mr. Sheibels, "Correct."

Com. Harper, "That's what my question is. On that 800 frequency?"

Mr. Sheibels, "Correct, only the agencies that Porter County communications ___ is handling today."

Com. Harper, "Right. Which are mostly Fire Departments, right?"

Mr. Sheibels, "16 Fire Departments, all the Fire Departments, except for Valparaiso and Portage. The problem is in Portage they have a County fire frequency so if there, some of the disaster plans that are on paper with the EMA Department calls for them switching to County prior. If that were to happen, the County fire frequency needed to talk to some state agency, whoever it might be. State EMA, the dispatcher would switch that channel over into that system and now they can talk, literally state wide."

Com. Harper, "What's the grievance committee that they want to set up. What's the reason for that?"

Mr. Sheibels, "The MOU. The way I understand it from the State Police Superintendent, just broiler plan time of thing where if the Safe-T-System makes a change that may cost the County some money, we may have to come back and add equipment and to make whatever change, software, hardware, etc. that we thought that was a change on their end that we didn't particularly want them to do, to enter into a grievance process and make our case and say. Well they ask the questions. Why did your make the change, cause now we are going to have to change our system to accommodate and ___ like that."

Com. Harper, "It sound to me, that this grievance committee doesn't have anything to do with this grievance about __."

Mr. Sheibels, "This would be between Porter County and the State."

Com. Harper, "This is my last question. By signing this Agreement, do we commit ourselves from buying any further equipment other than what is . That we already have grants for?"

Mr. Sheibels, "No. This is only the beginning. Now that we are going to actually attach a first system to the state. Once this is signed then we can proceed with various other projects down to the mobile level, down to the data level."

Com. Harper, "I understand that, but you .."

Com. Burrus, "Basic answer, there's no commitment involved for future
purchases. Right?"

Mr. Sheibels, "No. There's no commitment whatsoever to buying. We have
already essentially bought our first inter-connectability system. This is now entering into the agreement for permission to connect our system that we just bought to the state."

Com. Evans, Would it be correct to say that this is similar to a mutual aid agreement type thing?"

Mr. Sheibels, "Very similar."

Com. Evans, "Whatever happens from this point, the agency they decide to use, Hoosier Safe-T, 100 Megahertz for data, Tactical channels, anything else, all these other projects that may or may not happen, the Agreement is signed. We just work right with the staff and whatever project comes from this point on."

Mr. Sheibels, "This is just because we have the first system now touching it. We need to have this document signed."

Com. Evans, moved to approve,. Com. Harper, seconded, motion carried.

Com. Evans, "Dave, before you get away. We had a conversation earlier this year with the representatives from Valparaiso City Police Department and they have expressed their intent to join, to merge their 911 system with ours. I would like to ask you to continue those negotiations with Chief Mike Brickner from the Valparaiso Police Department and if you could report back to this body with a kind of guidelines on how we are going to accomplish that. If that is too much of a daunting task maybe you could add one person and Mike Brickner could add person. I don't want to hire consultants to do this. I think we have the ability in house to take care of it and I would like to direct you to get that job done so that we can make that switch by the end of the year, if possible."

Mr. Sheibels, "As you know, a good many conversations were with Chief Brickner and his staff. I have presented them with numerous documents and complete detailed transition plan. It should take place. We are well on track. We have a good understanding between us, from the operational side. It is a very doable project. What the project really means through is a funding mechanism with the surcharge income, not being able to raise it substantially, not to be able to generate new money. It is the same thing that I have recorded, year after year, everything from home expenses to operation costs, never go down, they always go up. The income is slightly going down because of wireless. I will say that since we are talking about it, I have formal letters from AT & T and Verizon that they are going to start their first course of MIP in Porter County which, if customers move from their local exchange carrier Verizon SPC Netco and go into voice over IP current Indiana Law does not allow for any surcharge collection of those voice over IP customers. It is just another average loss of income for us. That is probably is what is going to cause most discussion. I agree, that a private consultant is not needed. It is really not that complicated to do, the transition. We can pretty much, otherwise, with the inclusion of some small radio program, additions to County dispatch we could, if I had that, Valpo frequency, County dispatch today, I could literally pick them up today. Put them in there, give them some training and get them operating as a consolidated center. The cost is what we need to look at. "

Com. Burrus, "I think, from our point of view, then one of the things that would be important in here, your planning process, would be to determine as best you can, what the wind chime cost might be as far as making the transition and the ongoing cost that we would be looking at to operate it. Then we could go back to the City and possibly negotiate something with respect to some of those costs."

Com. Evans, "That's a good approach."

Com. Harper, "I thought we were going to get the records and we would discuss the dispatch activity of those 2 centers (inaudible). This thing is coming down, so we are not surprised and we know what's going on, could you provide us for Valpo and for the County, records for the last couple of years of the dispatch activity within the next week? Would that be a problem?"

Mr. Sheibels, "I could fax them over this afternoon. I keep ongoing records of all those stats."

Com. Harper, "I am talking about you and Valpo. I think Chief Brickner is saying that you will follow up on that one."

Mr. Sheibels, "Sure."

Com. Harper, "Okay."

Com. Burrus, "Thank you fellows. Make sure that our office gets copies of those."

BUILDING LEASE RENEWAL WITH WESTCHESTER TOWN. ASSESSOR

Candy Crone, Westchester Township Assessor

Ms. Crone, "I just need to renew my lease on my building. Mr. Hilkensen writes the Lease every 2 years. We just need to renew it now for budget time. It is the same list that we have had all along. To adjust the rent a little every year. I do have the money in my budget to transfer over if I need to."

Com. Evans, "How much did it go up?"

Ms. Crone, "About 3%. Normally it is about $300 and something a year. It is the same. He wrote the written Lease originally and then (inaudible)."

Com. Evans moved to approve the lease renewal, Com. Harper seconded.

Com. Burrus, "This is a 2 year Lease with a 3% increase per year, right?"

Ms. Crone, "That's right."

Com. Burrus, "Okay."

Motion carried.

REPORT FROM COMMISSIONERS

North District: Com. Evans

1.Performance guarantee for High Meadows West Phase D in the amount of $76,350 to guarantee the completion of the improvements for this subdivision. We need to stipulate to make this subject to the bank's signature on that letter of credit and ask for approval.

Com. Evans moved to approve. Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Center District: Com. Harper

1. Road Agreement for Washington Minor 2529-B-2, located on the south side of CR 500 North East of CR 400 East. There are 4 lots at $750 each for a total of $3,000. Timothy and Helen Chupp are the owners and developers.

Com. Harper moved to approve. Com. Evans seconded. Motion carried.

2. Road Agreement for Pivotal Pointe subdivision located at the southeast corner of CR 400 East and CR 500 North. This subdivision has 10 lots all fronting the existing County roads. Each lot is $750 for a total of $7,500. Timothy and Helen Chupp are the owners and developers.

Com. Harper moved to approve. Com. Evans seconded. Motion carried.

South District: Com. Burrus

1. Fieldstone Manor Subdivision, Phase III, Performance Letter of Credit #00716 from Centier Bank in the amount of $26,200.00. New expiration date is June 2, 2005. Recommend approval.

Com. Burrus moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded. Motion carried.

2. Fieldstone Manor Subdivision, Phase IV, Performance Letter of Credit #00717 from Centier Bank in the amount of $28,800.00. New expiration date is June 2, 2005. Recommend approval.

Com. Burrus moved to approve. Com. Evans seconded. Motion carried.

3. Dream Catcher Estates Subdivision Road Agreement, located on the north side of CR 50 South between Sager Road and CR 150 East. Offer to contribute $750.00/lot for a total of $5,250.00. Owners and subdivider are Gary A. and Randy L. Tacker.

Com. Burrus moved to approve. Com. Evans seconded. Motion carried.

4. Morgan Minor Subdivision 1944-A-1 Road Agreement, located on the west side of CR 150 East between CR 250 South and CR 325 South. Offer to contribute $750.00/lot for a total of $3,000.00. Owners and subdividers are Joseph C. and Della M. Potucek.

Com. Burrus moved to approve. Com. Evans seconded. Motion carried.

5. Porter Minor Subdivision 1241-D-1 Road Agreement, located on the west side of CR 200 West between CR 150 South and CR 100 South . Offer to contribute $750.00/lot for a total of $1,500.00. Owner & subdivider is Brandon L. Kerr.

Com. Burrus moved to approve. Com. Evans seconded. Motion carried.

6. Last item is Falling Waters Subdivision has a $343,000 from Citizens Financial Services Performance Letter of Credit #2001-12 that is expiring on Friday, June 18, 2004. We have not yet received a renewal on this, but I just wanted to make a comment that we do expect to have it by June 17, 2004. I would ask that the Highway Department and Engineering Department would have authorization to accept that. To make sure it is received prior to our next meeting.

Com. Burrus moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded. Motion carried.


CORRESPONDENCE

Court Security monthly report for May, 2004 is on file.
Weights and Measures Monthly Report for May, 2004 is on file.
Clerk's Monthly Report for April, 2004 is on file.
Veteran Service Officer Monthly Report for May, 2004 is on file.
Treasurer's Monthly Report for May, 2004 is on file
Building Department Monthly Report for May, 2004 is on file

Approval of Official Bond for Rebecca Stowers, Court Reporter

Com. Evans moved to approve the official bond for Rebecca Stowers, Court Reporter in the amount of $16,000.00, Com. Harper, seconded. Motion carried.

Request for seven additional days of bereavement leave for Becky Phillips

Com. Evans moved to approve seven additional bereavement days for Becky Phillips due to the death of her mother, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Request for seven additional days of bereavement leave for Vickie Harrison

Com. Evans moved to approve seven additional bereavement days for Vickie Harrison due to the death of her mother, Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

American Red Cross request to use the Administration Center for blood drives on Friday, September 10, 2004, and Friday, November 12, 2004.

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Certification of true number of Covered Bridges in Porter County.

Com. Burrus, "Are either of you familiar with that particular item?"

Com. Evans, "We have one."

Com. Burrus, What action is required there, John?"

Com. Evans, "I think you just have to sign the form and send it back to them."

Com. Burrus, "It is coming from the Auditor of the State of Indiana and it said, We the County Commissions of said County, meaning Porter County, hereby certify that the foregoing is the true number of covered bridges in Porter County dated this __ in June, 2004. The number is 1. I guess that is irreparable evidence. We will forward that certification then."

Request for Additional Appropriation - Commissioners.

Fund 257.30 $ 50,000.00 Acct #0001CEDIT Project #8 Economic
Growth & Development

Support on Malden Railroad.

Com. Evans moved to approve. Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Request for Additional Appropriation - Commissioner

Fund 132.30$115,592.00 Acct#4110Land Purchase

Appropriation required due to changes made to budget at 2003 budget hearings. Budget was advertised at the low figure.

Com. Evans moved to approve. Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Request for Additional Appropriation - Highway Department

Fund 02.91$ 8,000.00Acct# 1110Salaries

Fund 02.91$ 21,855.00Acct#1111Full Time Hourly

The amount advertised did not include raises.

Com. Evans moved to approve. Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Fund 02.191 $ 60,000.00Acct# 3950Contractual Services

Fund 02.291$ 60,000.00Acct#3950Contractual Services

Fund 02.391$ 60,000.00Acct#3950Contractual Services

Money needed for road building.

Com. Evans moved to approve. Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Medical Leave for Susanna Villaruel, Porter County Assessor's Office employee due to back surgery for an unspecified amount of time

Com. Evans moved to approve. Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Approve farming of property along 400 East between Ralph Knoblock property and Norfolk & Southern Railroad for $50.00 per acre.

Com. Burrus, "This is a request from Jerome Sikora. Is Mr. Sikora here by any chance? He has a very brief letter saying that he is seeking permission to continue farming between 4 gated tracts of property that Porter County purchased from Ralph Knoblock. This is part of the right of way acquisition that was completed prior to that process being halted. It is along 400 East between Ralph Knoblock's remaining property and the Norfolk and Southern Railroad tracks as well as the Grande Trunk tracks in the South. He is claiming that he paid Mr. Knoblock $50.00 a year per acre and will continue to pay the County the same if he is allowed to continue farming it. Any discussion?"

Com. Harper, "I was asking the County Attorney do we have any liability or anything?"

Com. Evans, "We have other agreements similar to this."

Com. Burrus, "We have 2 or 3 parcels of land that are farmed now. It does not necessarily address the liability issue, I don't think."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "I do not see a big liability issue."

Com. Evans, "Is $50.00 an acre the going price?"

Atty. Rinkenberger, "No, definitely not. I would think more like $100 to $150 or so."

Com. Burrus, "Are you interested in discussing it with Mr. Sikora, further?

Com. Harper, "If it is going to be done this year, it has to be done quick."

Com. Burrus, "Do I hear a consensus possibly that we go ahead with it right now and then for any further years, we might re-negotiate with him."

Com. Evans moved to approve the farming for $50.00 per acre, Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Statutes and Employee Policy for Closing of Building.

Com. Burrus, "We have already discussed this and it is already taken care of. Let me just scan the agenda here, any other issues?"

Com. Harper, "Yes. I would like to allow Eric Biddinger to comment on the letter that he substituted. I think you each received a copy of this."

Com. Burrus, "Good Morning, Eric."

Mr. Biddinger, "Good Morning, Gentlemen. How are you? Just a quick comment I do have _____ . I deal with that all the time. I would be happy to get you that ___. The letter I sent is in regards to the Master Gardeners assisting with the landscaping around this building. As you are aware of, about all they can do is keep up with the mowing at this point. I was approached a couple of months ago, by a group of Master Gardeners who are interested in volunteering their time to this building. They have done a pretty decent job on doing some weed control. They got rained out here a couple of times here recently but they are interested in doing more than just what they can do by just pulling weeds. They would like to replace some plants, do some things along that line. There is a list of their improvements that was included with the letter. Ann Cerniak is the coordinator of this project. She is the Master Gardner. Basically, I am asking for 2 things. Number 1, is approval, your approval, to do some of these changes and modifications around the building. The other thing is to help defray some of the expenses. We would like to ask in some way, we estimate that we can do everything for under $300.00. $300.00 is the absolute maximum. So really there are 2 different things here. Number 1, approval to make some changes around the building. The second is if you so desire, the financial support for this project."

Com. Harper moved to approve Eric's proposed project and to submit the funds necessary to complete the project, Com. Evans seconded, and adding his thanks for making the buildings look a lot better,

Mr. Biddinger, "Thank you."

Com. Burrus, "Is there any interest on the part of the Board on seeking some kind of plan of their intentions before they proceed."

Com. Harper, "This is such an improvement. I say let them do it. I trust that it will be better than it was."

Com. Harper, "Before you carry it, let bring up one other thing. Up North, you guys didn't do anything up North, Right?

Mr. Biddinger, "No."

Com. Harper, "Up North, the thistles are higher than the bushes. One PACT worker, has about 170 hours of experience in gardening, is going to start working on some of weeding and so forth. But, PACT has a lot of workers that are available and the problem that we run into is, Number one is to keep track of their hours which needs to be done. I talked to Court Security, they told me that in the past that they have done that. It wouldn't be any problem with keeping track of the hours. I just have a slip at the front door at North County and South County. I imagine that even at the Juvenile Facility, that's a problem there. If they were told in advance, just tell them what work they did to do out there. Telling them it is weeding and so forth. They need somebody to bring that whole thing together. They have a lot of hours available but we need somebody that sits down with perhaps, PACT people, and the Court Security people and maybe Eric, and comes up with some sort of plan of how many people do we need? How often? And so forth, because we are missing a great opportunity. I think there has to be someone from maintenance too, because sometimes they will need gloves and tools and so forth. Just this year alone we are going to have 180 hours. So if we can keep service through PACT. If we can get this together, we really have a possibility of.. I don't know exacting.. I am trying to formulate in my mind, for the rest to coordinate that."
Com. Burrus, "Let me make a comment, Bob. I agree with your thoughts on this. We have, in the past, used PACT people and Trustees from the jail as well, fairly extensively. We have had an experience level that says, that out of all of those available there are a small number of people who are very good, dependable workers. Some of them we sent back. I don't mean that negatively, but some folks don't care to work. The part of it though that becomes difficult for our maintenance people is that that we have one full-time supervisor and because of budget cut-backs she has been flushing out a lot of her labor force with part-time workers; that takes additional coordination scheduling. To the extent that we can figure out a way to do what you have suggested, I am going to support that."

Com. Harper, "I realize that we cannot have a maintenance worker here at all times. I think the PACT people and Court Security, I think if we have somebody that can record the hours and also show some direction on what they should do. You know what I mean."

Com. Burrus, "Could I suggest that maybe you contact the maintenance person, Charlotte Miller, and see if she has any idea on how, she may have a solution. Maybe a janitor at one of the facilities."

Com. Evans, "I agree with the concept also."

Motion carried.

DISCUSSION ON CHANGES IN PORTER COUNTY GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE POLICY HANDBOOK.

Com. Harper, "Yes. I want to suggest that we make some changes in the Policy Handbook; the Porter County Government Policy Manual. My first suggestion I will make is the changes under group insurance benefits. In the future that it reads as follows: All employees are eligible for group term life and health insurance. 1. Regular full-time employees. 2. Individuals under service contracts including Public Defenders and others as designated by the Commissioners, Elected Officials, and leave out the regular part-time employees that work 30 hours a week or more. I am suggesting that change to be made. I am suggesting that if we make a change of Section 6.01. I am suggesting that we delete this paragraph, any elected official upon hiring an employee be determined to be subject to approval of the Porter County Commissioners. Prior employment service merits credit to new employees and some amount of years for employment for vacation time approved. I don't think Commissioners should do things like this on a case by case basis. It is either in or it is out. As far as I am concerned, it makes for bad feelings and misunderstandings among the employees. I am suggesting that we that take out. What it calls for is a meeting on whether we are going to make an exception to the Policy Manual. I don't think we should. I suggest we take that out. In 0.05, I am suggesting that we delete the paragraph that says, Porter County Commissioners may grant an employee an additional seven (7) consecutive record days for a total of 10 days with pay for funeral leave on the death of an employee's spouse, child, step-child, etc., etc. Again, we shouldn't be deciding. We should have our Policy and our Policy should be our Policy. We shouldn't have people come to us to make those kinds of decisions. I am suggesting that we delete that."

Com. Burrus, "Did you have an alternative in mind?"

Com. Harper, "You know, I didn't. I would be open to suggestions."

Com. Burrus, "We have 3 separate issues on the Policy Manual."

Com. Harper, "Right."

Com. Burrus, "Can we go back to your first one and take a vote on these individually, then?"

Com. Harper, "Good. Fine."
Com. Burrus, "The first one was for under 6.01 insurance benefits and your proposal is to eliminate the benefits available to regular part-time workers who work over 30 hours per. Is that correct?"

Com. Harper, "We would also have to amend the paragraph to read that individuals under service contracts, including Public Defenders and others as specified by the Commissioners."

Com. Burrus, "John, do you have any comments?"

Com. Evans, "No, I think this is a little housekeeping here. I will make a motion to accept."

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Com. Burrus, "Then we go back to 6.01. Is that correct?"

Com. Harper, "Yes. The motion is to delete the paragraph starting, any elected official upon hiring an employee may determine subject to approval by the Porter County Board of Commissioners if prior employment merits crediting a new employee with some years for vacation time approval."

Com. Burrus, "So that would be eliminated as a condition. John, any comments?"

Com. Evans, "This is the clause under which we went back and allowed Jackie Sterling vacation time. I just think that sometimes that when an employee puts in 20 years, or an office holder puts in 10 or 20 years and then returns to the County Government, as an employee, there should be some method to compensate them or something to allow them to have a credit for the time they have already served in the corporation, so to speak."

Com. Harper, "Well, then perhaps we should let this one go for 2 weeks. I think it should be automatic whatever it is, it shouldn't be a vote that the Commissioners can give it or not give it."

Com. Burrus, "To set a scale."

Com. Harper, "The people that work here should know, by looking at this book, what they are entitled to. They shouldn't have to wait on the Commissioners to decided whether or not."

Com. Burrus, "Possibly, with so many years of prior service. Cut and dried."

Com. Harper, "We can let this go, at least for the next two weeks. There needs to be some discussion. At least we got that one done."

Com. Burrus, "Do you want to make any comments on the third one?"

Com. Evans, "They way that is structured in our book at this point and time, we do give an employee 3 days off for a funeral of a relative. The provision that you speak to allows for an additional 7 days off for the working employee, if the relative or person lived in their residence."

Com. Harper, "It makes it subject to a vote. That's my __."

Com. Evans, "I think if we are going to change that, what we should do is say that they are entitled to and if they wish to take it, then it's there."

Com. Harper, "(Inaudible)."

Com. Burrus, "Do you want to leave those 2 issues for next time?"

Com. Harper, "Do you want to?"

Com. Evans, "We can just leave the one and just do on 10.05 just say that if the relative is a member of the household of the employee they may be granted an additional 7 days, if they so desire. Not that they have to take it."

Com. Harper, "Basically, that's what is says now, because who is going to turn it down?"

Com. Evans, "Everyone that has qualified for it, asks for it. So it is something we should give them."

Com. Burrus, "Subject to the revised portion then I guess we can take a vote on that one."

Com. Burrus, moved to approve. Com. Harper, seconded. Motion carried.

Com. Harper, "What section is this? The date on the 6 to 8 week."

Com. Burrus, "That's it. That was 10.05."

Com. Evans, "The funeral leave."

Com. Burrus, "The back surgery."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "Sick leave, I think it is under section 6."

Com. Harper, "Maybe we should take a look at that next time. I don't think because I don't think we should be voting."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "Well, you fellows can take a Board action to what the contents might be. Write up your thoughts and get have the amendment."

Com. Harper, "Was that under the sick leave pay?"

Atty. Rinkenberger, "No."

Com. Evans, "I don't think we are ever going to get out of the position of having to make these judgments."

Com. Burrus, "Well in interest of the time, I think if we could leave any remaining issues that we are still considering. We can get some thoughts together for next time."

Com. Evans, "6.04 and 10.05."

Com. Burrus, "Any further business for the Board?"

Com. Burrus, "We do have a Plan Commission Session. We will recess here momentarily for approximately 10 minutes. We will reconvene by 11:30 a.m. on this clock. We'll stand in recess."

(The meeting was recessed at 11:20 for a ten minute break.)

MEETING CALLED BACK TO ORDER


Com. Burrus, "Let's call this meeting back to order. The first item of business, is Plan Commission Business."

APPOINTMENT OF AIRPORT AUTHORITY BOARD

Com. Evans, "If I could interrupt for a moment. We neglected to do the appointment for the Airport Board. I nominate Dale Crandall to go back on the Board."

Com. Evans moved to reappoint Dale Crandall to the Airport Authority Board, Com. Harper seconded. Motion carried.

Com. Burrus, "To reiterate, we had one item from the previous session that we overlooked and that was the appointment to fill the vacancy on the Airport Board. The nomination is to reappoint the incumbent Dale Crandall."


PLAN COMMISSION-AFTERNOON SESSION

Rezone - RR to R1 - Bernie Madej, Owner - 1st Reading
Robert Thompson, Planning Director
William Ferngren, Atty. from Hoeppner Wagner & Evans

Mr. Thompson, "This is Plan Commission Resolution 04-08 of Petitioner, Bernie Madej, requests an amendment to the zoning maps and the zoning ordinance from RR, rural residential to R1, single family residential. The Plan Commission has heard this at a number of hearings. At the May 26th hearing they forwarded to the County Commissioners this cause with a favorable recommendation for written commitments on this by 7 - 1 vote."

Com. Burrus, "Further comments about this?"

Com. Evans, "Does it mention what the written commitments were?"

Mr. Thompson, "With this, this is a 112 block subdivision developed at R1 standards with municipal services being provided for each lot. This is in the southwest corner of U.S. 6 and 200 West, site size is approximately is 60 acres. Briefly, did it mention the items that were on the written comments that the Plan Commission recommended were opened spaced to be provided as shown on Plats. They will present a Plat here. This same Plat was presented to the Plan Commission. 112 Lots is the maximum that they can do within the development. If done as an R1. Sidewalks to be provided. Sanitary sewage to be provided. If not, then the developer would revert back to the RR zoning for the septic, if they so decide. Water to be provided with fire hydrants and the recommendation to consult with the fire department as far as the location of the fire hydrants. Drainage coils along the South and West parcel boundaries. This came about because of numerous discussions on the drainage in the area. Off-site drainage to be provided as per the Plat in the Northwest corner of the development. There is an off-site storm sewer that they have proposed for some drainage problems in that area. An easement to provide for Mallard's Landing, this is in the northeast corner of this development along U.S. 6. A POA to be incorporated and for standards to exceed county requirements for storm water quality to Salt Creek, some of this they have also committed to the fact that while the area of Mallard's Landing and this can take the water within their development right through their ponds and the outlet for the ponds was going to be in the southern section of this development, there's a ravine that will run to Salt Creek."

Com. Burrus, "Thank you, Bob. At this time, we will open the public hearing on this request and go first to the petitioner."

Atty. Ferngren, "William Ferngren, from Hoeppner Wagner and Evans. I am here on behalf of Bernard Madej. I hope you all received the note I provided to you last week. The property is about 63 ½ acres located on the southwest corner of US 6 and County Road 200 West as Bob indicated, it is zoned RR at this time. The request is to have it rezoned to the R1 classification. The adjacent zoning to the north is RR, to the south, it is RR which is at this time undeveloped; to the east is C1, which is multi family and to the west is C4 and some residential as well because C4 use at this time is a veterinary clinic located on Route 6. The property is located on the conservation development as classified under the county's land use plan which essentially recommends that if you can extend utilizes to this kind of property, that is the advice of the land use planners that developed the plan. Again, also the density is recommended in this type of development upon the extension of the utility services between one and two units per acre. The proposed development before you is Eagle Ridge subdivision consisting of 112 lots. Those lots range in size from .29 acres to 1.3 acres and the density for the project is about 1.7 units per acre so it is within the guidelines proposed in the conservation development area number one. The Conservancy District providing sanitary sewer service would be Damon Run. This district has been established and the primary service provider for utility sanitary sewer at this time is Boyd's. It is my understanding that the city of Portage as well as Damon Run have formulated some sort of agreement to this. This is in the earliest stages at this time. It is an open space of approximately 11% in the development. Within that open space, you can see there is a pond there, there are going to be deeper ponds that will actually support fish life so the residents can use those. Just north of the entrance onto CR 200 West, there is a softball field and a basketball court area that are provide which were committed to this part of the development. I think it is important to discuss a little bit of the history of the case. Bob has done that. When we first came to the Plan Commission at a public hearing, there were a number of citizens that spoke that evening and had quite a few concerns about drainage and then the other concern was we were really not sure of the sewers at this point. So, the Plan Commission directed us to go back to TAC, or actually it was our first time, which we did. We had a rather informal discussion about the drainage. A lot of the information was provided. TAC really didn't take any action at that time whether to approve or disapprove the drainage. It was simply an informative type of meeting. The sanitary sewer was discussed, the city of Portage has contacted Mr. Thompson and discussed it so we came back to the Plan Commission with a more concrete determination about sewer. I am still a little bit fuzzy on what was actually going to happen. Then the Plan Commission sent us back again to TAC and at that TAC meeting, Mr. ____ from the Duneland Group went through a very thorough discussion of the drainage clearly outlining all of the improvements within the development and the improvements that would benefit the entire area and TAC made a unanimous approval of the drainage plans submitted which is the same from this morning. After that we went back to the Plan Commission on May 26 as Mr. Thompson indicated there was a 7 - 1 vote in favor of the rezone. Now that leads me into the next which is the written commitments in your book that I have prepared. Such approval on page 2 is highlighted with the actual commitments. They are as Mr. Thompson indicated that this property is not developed with water and sewer, then it would revert back to RR and be developed with water and sewer from the municipal or conservancy district then it would revert back to RR to be developed according to these standards. That protection was in place and would essentially be right where you are today. If the property is developed with sanitary sewer and domestic water then the density, the zoning would be changed and allowed for this sort of density a maximum of 112 units on the property which again falls right in line with the conservancy development area once density is recommended and then in addition to that is to restate what the commitments further included that sidewalks would be provided. This is all with our water zoning. Sidewalks would be provided. Open space would be provided as depicted on the Plat with the ponds with the softball field and basketball court. A property owner's association would be created and incorporated to include these areas. The drainage plan that the Technical Advisor Committee approved would be implemented on this particular project. That would include the drainage well on the Southwest property line. The offside drainage improvements on U.S. 6 that Mr. Thompson referred to a short time ago. A drainage easement leading from Mallard's Point which is across County Road 200 West into that northeasterly pond to provide that drainage there. In addition, Storm Water Management Quality Practices will be adhered to for rule 5 and also for rule 13. Fire hydrants once we have an approval, which we hope to gain from you this morning, we will visit with the local Fire Departments to determine whether the fire hydrant locations are preferred for the development. I would like to ask Mr. Duffy to explain a little bit, maybe in more detail, about what they are actually doing to demonstrate how much of an improvement for drainage this development will actually provide for the area."

Mr. Duffy, "We are providing swales along the South and the West side. We had some adjoiners mention that they are worried about run offs from the home sites. (Inaudible)… so we provided swales to catch all the water from our side to keep it from going anywhere else along the South and the West. In addition to that, going around the animal hospital we provided some rear yard inlet drainage to catch our water and also to facility the animal hospital. They have problems getting into our system. They have to go through our pods and taken out that way. Then there is an old cattle crossing on the far West side of the animal hospital, actually, adjoining our property. There has been some problems with some fill that has been placed over there. It has created a hazard. The water backs up substantially. We are going to put a pipe into it and take it down to Salt Creek to eliminate that gentlemen's issue over there. We have also designed the storm system to accommodate the improvements going on U.S. 6 so they can pump some of their water into our system. We, actually, would like them to, to help keep all these pods wet."

Atty. Ferngren, "The drainage plan of the Dunes has been prepared, or will release 27% less water from this site than would be permitted under your current Ordinance at this time. I think we would be taking on an improvement for drainage for the entire area. I think the proposed zoned changes consistent with the land use plan. The uses proposed are consistent with those in the area. Being a residual subdivision and the protections offered by the written commitments as requested by your Plan Commission will provide that this can be a quality development and in the same manner that the Plan Commission has approved 7 - 1 in hoping that would be. One of the primary drivers for the rezoning is the ability to extend sanitary sewer service to this parcel which is a public policy issue with the State of Indiana and also with your local Ordinance that public policy dictates that if can have a sanitary sewer like this one you really should be. That is what we are trying to provide here. The extension of the sewer, however, is not justified with the present zoning so if the zoning is not approved it would be developed as an RR as a no sanitary sewer and would go back to the RR so I think you are really protected in that regard and also for public policy of lets get these people on sanitary sewer service."

Mr. Duffy, "With that, I would be happy to answer any questions and respectfully request your approval."

Com. Harper, "I have a question. I would like to know the name of the person in your group and who they talked to, the name of the person, they talked to in Portage that said that it is in the works for the sewer to be extended to this area."

Mr. Duffy, "I believe Mr. Thompson was contacted by the City of Portage."

Mr. Thompson, "Dave Hollenbeck and Clyde Compton."

Com. Harper, "So Clyde Compton has told you that they are planning to bring sewer out to this area?"

Mr. Thompson, "No, they are not bringing the sewer out to this area we are actually taking sewer to them. They have already increased the size of the sewer line on Route 6 to accommodate this."

Com. Harper, "You were going to get something in writing on that. Did you do that, or not?"

Mr. Thompson, "I did not get something in writing."

Com. Harper, "Let me ask you, who is Mr. Shepard?"

Mr. Thompson, "John Shepard?"

Com. Harper, "Yes."

Mr. Thompson, "He is the Grant Administrator."

Com. Harper, "Does he have anything to do with this?"
Mr. Thompson, "I don't believe so. I know we had a meeting with Clyde Compton who is the Sanitary Board Attorney and Dave Hollenbeck. I talked to Dave just the end of last week. He said he had something preliminarily from them."

Com. Harper, "I have been told by some people, maybe I have been told wrong, that they have a concern about sending their sewer out there, that it is going to be development plus the development outside the city and they have a concern about it."

Mr. Thompson, "They are not sending the sewer outside at all. We are actually, the conservancy district is running to them. I know that they have already increased the size of the sewer on Route 6 to accommodate this."

Com. Evans, "At a public hearing format you need to hear those people that are speaking to go on petition prior to . . (inaudible)."

Com. Burrus, "At this point I think it would be appropriate to delay the discussions until we have an opportunity to hear from any folks in the audience who would like to speak against this project. If you feel you want to speak against, please stand and state your name and address for the record. Yes, sir."

Mr. Cole, "My name is Tim Cole. I live at 845 North Calumet Avenue, Liberty Township. I guess I am in a little of a quandary. There are some things I like about this Duneland Group, it does quality work. I like their drainage plan. Other concerns that I have is that we are looking at urban development in a rural area. Although it may be consistent with the presence of ____ and practices of our present Plan Commissions in Porter County. It does not look to me like it conforms with the comprehensive land use, the plan that we accepted and put into ordinance. I feel that this is an area that should not be developed quite this densely as proposed here. Open space, 11%, that 6.6 acres but I understand that is also is probably including all of the swales all of the ponds as well as the 2 lots of recreational area. I am not sure how big this 2 lot recreational area is if we have 1.7 units per acre subdivision. That tells me that this is just a little over an acre. Tennis courts. Did I hear basketball courts? That is a lot to fit in, in this small area. Also, it is located rather close to U.S. 6 and that part of the road. I guess that is not much of a problem, except I would worry about little kids running in the street after lost balls. Police and Fire impact on County and Liberty Townships. This really concerns me because very time I have problem I call the Sheriff's Office. I am always told we have a unit in South Haven and they are busy. We have a unit in South County and they are busy. Our densely populated areas seem to use up our infer structure as far as our police and fire protection. Without maybe equal compensation in our property taxes. Now, of course, there is an answer to this, you either incorporate or you annex and you let the municipality take care of that. Annexation is not a happy work in Liberty Township. Especially when it is not contiguous with the municipality that is probably looking for that annexation. Portage in the past has been aggressive in their annexation. Liberty Township residents have a quote, not happy about that. They are perfectly happy living in a rural setting letting the Township and the County pretty much take care of their infer structure. Right now, crime is low. The need is low. The taxes are satisfactory to accommodate them. Water and Sewer Conservancy District. Liberty Township is interested, to a degree, in the Conversancy District. Let's face it, septic systems and wells in Liberty Township are not the highest quality and is a degrading quality. Right now, it is going down hill. We would like to discuss further, an extension of this Conversancy District. We would also like to see perhaps some Township officials on that Board. Right now, I don't know who is on this Conversancy Board representing Sand Ridge. We would like to work for the Conversancy District. I don't know if we can afford it or want to afford it. I think it is in our best interest and probably the future for all of us in Liberty Township. I guess that is really all I have to say. In conclusion I should probably say, am I for it or against it. I guess I am against it. I think it needs some work."

Com. Burrus, "Any other individuals? Yes, sir."

Mr. Schrader, "My name is Jeb Schrader. I live at 978 Meridian Road. I am not too familiar with this subdivision but I am with Damon Run Subdivision. This subdivision with its high density in lots it appears to me to be a ghetto in the country. People move out to the country they don't have the room. They don't want to be shoved together like in the city. I can't see these high density ___. Another thing is your sewer lot which they say are going to bring out of Portage. Now that is supposed to be part of the Damon Run Conservatory District. Dave Hollenbeck come out, he said there was 3 sewer pipes that they were looking at to serve the Damon Run. One was Chesterton, one was Portage and the third he did not name. Could it be South Haven? South Haven is considered Federal Government, somebody in a newspaper article that I read shows that they had an 8 million dollars in improvements to get sewer in there. But their territory which is designated by the Public Service Commission in Indianapolis, includes at least _____ as well as South Haven. I can't see how Portage is going to get over to that subdivision through their territory. Now Portage comes as far, I understand, as Wolfe Road. We also called it Wolfe Road. That is far as I think their proposal for the sewer line. They do come out to Pleasant Valley Trailer Park, I think they probably want to charge you. I am just wondering how this sewer line is going to get out there. I don't think they should get their rezoning and they will get a concrete ruling on what is coming off here with the sewer line. Another thing that is interesting is Damon Run Conservatory is also _____. I am very much interested in Damon Run Subdivision over on Meridian Road because they are trying to drain the water out of the West half of that subdivision to the East and it drains to the West. _____ In fact, the County had trouble with the corner of Meridian and 900 flooding and for some reason they didn't drain it down on 3 the way it should have run. They just ran a tile line from the subdivision, they didn't even go to the corner to drain the corner. It is still standing underwater. They went into the wetland, drained the wetlands out at Damon Run. ___ I have serious questions about it. But to get back to the subdivision, I don't' think it should be rezoned until they have some concrete formula of where they are going with the sewer or are they going to try to go over to South Haven. We don't know that. It is all a big secret. I don't think they should be in Damon Run Conservatory either. They are not draining into Damon Run. The drainage for that piece of property comes from tile lines on the North side of 6. Tile lines or a swale on the North side of 6. That is not even connected to Damon Run. That might be connected to Salt Creek. Salt Creek belongs to all the open sewer lines in Porter County. But anyway I think you gentlemen should not pass this rezoning until you get a concrete answer. Another thing we talked about, we have five trailer parks in Liberty Township, a new subdivision is one step above a trailer park and they were talking about trying to bring sewer lines out to the trailer park to alleviate the congestion of Damon Run."

Com. Burrus, "Thank you, sir."

Don Drazick, "153 W 850 in Liberty Township. Several years back, __ Farms were going to make their sewer district. They had a clause in there where they had to go for an expansion they had to get an okay from every majority sewage plant in the area in South Haven, Chesterton, I don't know how far, before they could even start building, they had to get this. Now South Haven sits next door to this piece of property. (inaudible) . . I went to a meeting at Boone Grove High School and South Haven was going to go down to (inaudible) one of those subdivisions along Highway 30 and they wanted to get their salutes. That's all it was. Now you got one here about a half mile, maybe more. They are talking of Portage, you have a lot of ups and downs because you are in Portage. That supposed to be one of the most restrictive waterways in the state of Indiana. They have had fish laws on the water way. I guess the only one they got away with was Valparaiso. They dumped into Salt Creek and got away with it. I talked to the Liberty Landowner's Association, we were knee deep into this pollution problem. I guess they had such bad fish kill in Salt Creek, what they call Damon Run, Salt Creek ends in all of this, I even think Portage goes into it. Everything sounded real good until high water, . . what would happen to a sewer line that is running from here over to Portage. You cant put a gallon of water into a quart jar no matter how you do it. There are an awful lot of homes for a small area there. True, I would like to see everybody in Liberty Township get city sewers. And I would be willing to pay for it, everybody would. Can you see your neighbor, over by Portage's sewer plant, it will almost knock your head off sometimes. I don't know whether they are running a ___ sewage plant there or not. They just built that. However, I hope you make the right judgment."

Man, "I would like to add one more thing. This Damon Run Subdivision, I am quite interested in that; they did the same thing, ask for additional housing to go there. That has been over a year and a half ago. In order to get that R1 they had to go to the Army Corp in the state and . . (inaudible.) It has been a year and they have never applied for a permit yet to relocate from Damon Run. I can't see giving them these things ahead of time."

Com. Burrus, "At this time I would like to allow the petitioner to answer any questions and rebut any comments."

Atty. Ferngren, "A lot of discussion about Damon Run. There is discussion about sewer and I guess I would like to refer you to the written commitments that state that this sewer is not provided to this area. This property will be developed as Rural Residential lots. So the safeguard is in place right now for the county and the rest of these people addressing their concerns stating that if the sewer is not there, it will be RR. If it is there, public policy in the state of Indiana and the county will be furthered by allowing this property to be developed on sanitary sewer and in the fashion that you have seen here which also has been thoroughly reviewed by the Technical Advisory Committee. Mr. Thompson, Mr. Breitzke, all of those folks were at two separate meetings; got a full inspection on drainage, they have reviewed everything and unanimously approved all of the drainage for this particular piece and again, 27% less water will be released on this site based on this plan than what would be permitted in your current ordinance. Additionally, offsite improvements allowing Mallard's Point to drain into this parcel and US 6 improvements, including the drainage that goes along the south and west; all of those will further the current drainage situation in the area. I would also like to point out that this is located within the conservation development area 1 of the land use plan and there is discussion about this is too dense; we don't want to move the city out into this little rural area. I like to think that it isn't that rural, it is located on US 6 which is a major thoroughfare with a tremendous amount of traffic on there, with property immediately adjacent that is used for multi family purposes and property on the other end of the parcel that is used for commercial purposes. I believe this is an appropriate use for the area. The density proposed under the conservation that developed under . . .(inaudible ) . . . right in the middle of that. Right where we should be. So all these things when you look at it, this is an appropriate use and appropriate zoning for this particular area. It is not strung out; in fact, it is quite the opposite of sprawl, it is a controlled road, efficient use of the land all of which this board should considering today. These gentlemen have also discussed that sewers are needed. We want the sewers or they want the sewers there, again we are protected by the reversion to the RR, (inaudible.) I don't believe this is ever going to become a ghetto out in this area. I had some discussions at the Plan Commission meetings, these are all going to be stick built homes, we discussed about estimated prices in the range of around $200,000.00. We cannot commit to that number as Mr. Harper knows, but nevertheless, it is not going to be a ghetto out in this area. Certainly a lot of experience and a lot of thought, planning, consideration to your land use plan about this particular parcel of property."

Com. Burrus, "Any further comments? This will be the last time around for anybody who would care to speak against this. Mr. Cole?"

Mr. Cole, "I am still concerned about the open space available for recreation. I know Mr. Harper is strongly in favor of the 20% open space regulation and that is on the books right now, but maybe up for grabs. Nevertheless, in my thinking, open space is a desirable thing, especially in this and I still have a hard time seeing this as an urban area. U.S. 6 just seemed to happen. I am sure there are some people here old enough to remember when Highway 6 was a dirt road and not a Federal Highway. That happened within a life time of many living people in Porter County. The fact that there is commercial development in that area, all that family development was another issue brought before this Commissioner Board several years ago. It was not a happy issue at that time. The fact that it exist there doesn't mean that we accepted gladly. Just how big? Down to brass tacks, how big is this recreational area? I am talking about the area closest to the corner of Babcock Road and U.S. 6. I mean we are talking about 50 kids, if we go by today's statistics, 2.3 people per home. Assuming that the .3 is probably kids and not elderly, is this big enough for 50 kids to play in or a Saturday? Have a picnic? Family? Thank you."

Com. Burrus, "Yes, sir. Thank you. Yes, sir. One more time."

Mr. ______, (did not identify himself) "I have one more comment to make. I still believe that this should not be reasonably held with a concrete agreement. But who am I? And, another thing with your open space playground. We have trouble here now all the time. We have an old widow who lives up on 1050 and that subdivision come in west of her and, of course, heavy building, and density. She owns 8 acres. Kids are in her woods playing all the time. They have no place to play. I don't know whether the developer was saving money, or allowed for open space or park, but she is complaining all the time. That she has to call the police all the time to get the kids out of there. I suggested that it would be to make the developers put in a fence around their subdivision. It is a hard thing to say, but it would keep the animals in too. I know Mr. ______ had a $20,000.00 back hoe. The kids got in and filled the crank case and fuel tank with dirt. He can't use it now. Now in Fox Chase Farms, there was a fellow wouldn't let them put the sump water in the sewage water or the storm water. It all ends up with the power lines it is probably adjacent to ___ the power line. That is the trouble we have with heavy density."

Com. Burrus, "Yes, sir. Thank you. Anyone else? At this time we will close the public portion of the hearing and open up for discussions with our Board members and any of the individuals from the audience. I would like to ask one or two questions to begin with; mainly for clarification. With respect to the storm water plans proposed here, is there any connection whatsoever to any of the Damon Run Conservancy water plans?"

Atty. Ferngren, "Damon Run Conversancy District is just a name. It could have been South Coast Conservancy District. What it does do though, is the Conversancy District allows you to use storm water or to use money from that, for the storm water. South Haven has something similar to that. In this particular case, the storm water is all going to be re-routed and taken care of by the Conversancy District."

Com. Burrus, "Are you within the territory of authority that is a good term of the Conversancy District?"

Atty. Ferngren, "Yes."

Com. Burrus, "You are. Okay. But they have no administrative or any design involved in this."

Atty. Ferngren, "With respect to the storm water, no."

Com. Burrus, "No connection. Another question then had to do with another clarification on the sanitary sewer part of it. Did I understand you correct, Charlie, that the intent is to consummate an agreement with Portage.

Charlie, "That is correct. There is a plan developed by NIRPC years and years ago. Back, I don't know when it was. It showed us first coming out Portage which extended all the way down to where 49 is. I think everyone wondered if that would ever come true. It appears that it may with the Damon Run Conversancy District. We have talked to Portage, according to the attorneys they are working on something now and that where it stands."

Com. Burrus, "Can you explain to me then the relationship between your development of Damon Run and the City of Portage."

Charlie, "Okay, Damon Run is at 900 and Meridian. The proposal is to run a line from there down to Route 6. Run South to Route 6 then from Route 6 to the west all the way to Portage. So what that does, it allows that corner, all the municipal. You have the County over here and you have the commercial over here. You have things all around. They could eventually tie into it. I guess a lot of them have problems with passing to manufactured housing parts. I think it is the Sands now, or Elmwood. We are picking those up. We have already talked to them. There is a lot of things this particular Conversancy District, a lot of problems that it will solve."

Com. Burrus, "Then, the agreement you are proposing is completed. It would be an agreement then between Damon Run Conversancy and the City of Portage. With the Conversancy District you would be able to utilize that sanitary sewer?"

Charlie, "That's correct, sir."

Com Harper, "I have a comment. Wait I have a question. Those ponds are potential retention ponds. Correct?"

Charlie, "They were put in there for drainage purposes.

Com. Harper, "I realize they are going to be deeper."

Charlie, "They are putting them in, it will be 13 feet deep to support fish line."

Com. Harper, "I understand. But they are required, if you are going to solve the drainage, that parcel has water standing in it right now, doesn't it?"

Charlie, "No."

Com. Harper, "It doesn't?"

Charlie, "It is a very small piece of wetland. The rest of it is dry."

Com. Harper, 'Okay, because as I drove by there, it appeared to me that there was some wetland there. Let me try to ask this question. Could you satisfy TAC without having these ponds in that property? Could you satisfy TAC that you had solved the drainage problems. All those drainage problems brought up at the meeting with those ponds?"

Charlie, "The way drainage works is, if you are going to slow down the water off of the site you have to have someplace to slow it down. You either have to have it in a dry bottom detention pond or in a wet bottom detention pond. Or you have to retain it in a large pond."

Com. Harper, "Let me cut to the chase, okay. Under the Green Space Ordinance, if accepted, drainage and retention ponds will not be counted or required for a subdivision. If they have to have it for drainage issues. I am asking you if those are those kinds of ponds or are you just .."

Charlie, "No. I think these two ponds would be totally eliminated and turned into just open fields. We are putting them in as fishing ponds so that, first of all, it increases the value of the homes around it. Because everybody wants to be on a pond where they can go out and fish. That's one of the reasons why we are doing it."

Com. Harper, "So they don't have anything to do with drainage issues."

Charlie, "Two of them do not. One of them does. We can eliminate two of them."

Com. Harper, "The two that you eliminated. Could you build on those if you wanted to? If you were granted permission?"

Charlie, "Well, you could but then it would be real dense."

Com. Harper, "Okay, I am just asking you."

Charlie, "It is not like we are taking a wetland and turning it into a, no. We are actually doing these ponds to enhance the lots."

Com. Harper, "What size are those two ponds?"

Charlie, "This pond is 2.65 acres. This is 1.86 acres and this one is probably close to 1.86 acres too."

Atty. Ferngren, "1 to 1½ acres of actual open space parcel is just under four acres. That includes the pond."

Com. Harper, "How many acres does it total ."

Atty. Ferngren, "63 ½."

Com. Harper, "That's the only questions I have. I have no other comments."

Com. Evans, "If the motion is approved we go back to Rural Residential, what is the density permitted?"

Atty. Ferngren, "One acre lots. We would be setting up a configuration."

Com. Evans, "So, it would be half of what it is, or not quite half. The corner that Mr. Cole is so interested in they just said, Tim, is 3.85 acres. My concern is that there was talk of a tennis court. I don't see a tennis court."

Atty. Ferngren, "It is not a tennis court. It is for basketball. This is a basketball court. He thought that would be, more people play basketball than tennis. We put parking over here for people that live over here, they can drive their car."

Com. Evans, "Would it be a possibility or something that it could be considered to add fencing to the roadway sides of this area?"

Charlie, "We could do that."

Com. Burrus, "200 West is a pretty busy road and obviously U.S. 6 is. There doesn't appear to be anything up at Highway 6 other than the drainage easement."

Charlie, "Okay we could. I don't see that as a problem."

Atty. Ferngren, "Right, along 200 West. Are you talking from the first entry road north to Route 6?"

Com. Evans, "Yes, to protect those people participating at the recreation area. Those three little dots there in front of the parking spaces. What do they represent?"

Charlie, "Tables. Picnic areas."

Com. Evans, "These narrow areas going to the pond in the center, is that the only access for that pond?"

Charlie, "No. There is an exit right here."

Com. Evans, "There isn't any other access."

Charlie, "No. Not around it. No."

Com. Evans, "Except for the homeowners."
Charlie, "Again there would be sidewalks provided throughout so the residents could walk to that location."

Com. Evans, "Can you envision a boat ramp there?"

Charlie, "No."

Com. Burrus, "I don't think I have any further questions. Bob, do you have a comment there?"

Com. Harper, "No. If you agree with it, but I have another question. Do you believe with their statement for those two ponds on the west side of the property are not required for drainage issues?"

Mr. Thompson, "One of the things they didn't do and they mentioned it in TAC is why they deceived our County standards. Our County standards calls for a 10 year release for storm water when you get into a comparison _________ it went down as far as a two year. Which means they are going to be storing our water in an area, but releasing it on a much slower rate than it requires. I guess, I am not an engineer, but I know there is probably some truth to that. I know they are releasing the water at a much slower rate than . . "

Com. Harper, "It was my understanding that some of the neighbors had some serious drainage problems. They brought pictures to us. They had drains that were overflowing with some drains in the area. The Plan Commission sent this back asking that these problems be solved to the best of the ability. Apparently, they have since I am not hearing about them today. I am asking you, are these ponds part of that solution or are these ponds are they giving us these ponds to their customers or giving them to, as actual green?"

Man, "When I originally did the design, I actually had two of those ponds down in there; they were for green space."

Charlie, "The gentleman that you are talking about. That is this area over here which would not go to the ponds. He is the one who brought in pictures of the water. We took care of that problem. Then it goes over here. It doesn't even come into these ponds."

Com. Burrus, "I would like to discuss that topic if I could. I have been involved with the Drainage Board for a few years now. Mallard's Landing has a bit of a problem as an unfinished development and to the extent that this development is going to help relieve some of those problems, maybe it can be expanded on a little bit. I am pleased to see that corner developed. That is a very difficult area to try to work with up. The developer, I think passed away or something like that, to try to find responsible entities to make some improvements."

Mr. Thompson, "Part of the response of the public hearing was to, about the water coming down from Route 6 and they had agreed to take that water from Mallard's Landing."

Com. Harper, "I have a comment."

Com. Burrus, "Anything further, John?"

Com. Evans, "No."

Com. Burrus, "Okay, your comment, Bob."

Com. Harper, "Let me say this. The argument that because the sewer line is there we should change it to R1. If we accept that argument, and by the way, I think I am going to vote for the subdivision. I want to make this statement. The argument that they have used here today, which I have heard used again and again and again is because the sewer line becomes R1. It should become R1. The entire County is going to have sewer lines, sooner or later. Apparently, that means that it is all going to be R1. I am not sure that decision should be made. They are here asking us to change our plan so we can require back what we want to require back. Obviously, under the Green Space Ordinance, we can require whatever green space we wanted to and they can decide whether they will follow through on that. It appears to me that they probably have about 10% Green Space, that if we take the true statement on the two ponds. That is 10% more than Valparaiso and we have been getting in a lot of these subdivisions. I think it should be more in the new Ordinance. I am willing to accept that is there for Green Space to accept that. I think we have to be careful about accepting this standard that every time sewer line goes to something that we automatically jump and change the zoning. I think we have to be careful about that. I truly believe that the questions up in the air about what Portage is going to do about this. I think probably we should wait. I am such an obstructionist that I am going to cut back over to Dave. I am just telling you, I think we need to be careful. Real careful. This statement that wherever sewers go density follows. Because sewers are going to go the whole County. We are going to have sewer in 20 years over all this County. If density follows, then we are going to have and if we don't plan for Green Space, then we are going to have a dense County. Eric Biddinger said this the other night at Plan Commission. When you put in homes, the experts agree that no matter what size that home is, it is a loss, you will never get the tax dollars out of it with respect to the services you have to provide. So, we better be careful. I have been real critical of this plan because of some things, but I will move to accept it."

Com. Harper moved to accept the rezone of RR to R1 by Bernie Madej, owner, on first reading,

Com. Burrus, "Two things I want to share with you, Bob. Density issues is the number one issue. The comment and the expectation that eventually the entire county is going to be serviced with sanitary sewers is probably not too far off track. I think it may be down the road but eventually we are going to be there. That is probably also pre-empted by or precipitated by the fact we are in a very dynamic growth path and we can look at growth as an inevitability. I don't think there is anything we can do to stop it, we can control it and to manage it in a way that is acceptable. As we look at these density issues and some of the eventualities we feel are appropriate, I think that is where our next opportunity is going to arise as we deal with this group of people we are going to be hiring as consultants. These are the guidelines that all the developers have to operate under and if it turns out we want to revise something in light of these expectations and make a restriction we can live with along with time frames, then I think that is where the documentation has to be. To be able to say here today or any other day, that we are going to deny or approve something based on future requirements if they are not documented in the ordinance now, I think (inaudible.) There is an opportunity that presents itself to clarify some of these issues take a look at different stands on them. With respect to the issue of green space, I would refer back to what does our existing subdivision ordinance call for with respect to green space, not what we are proposing or what we would like to see, what is on the docket today. If it says 10%, 5%, or 20% then that is the yard stick we have to use as we look at these. Any changes to that ordinance then, if they are in fact inaccurate, then that becomes a new yard stick that they have to comply with any future developments. Is there an existing percentage of green space required?"

Com. Harper, "None. You're asking what is required, none is required."

Com. Burrus, "Then these guys can come in here and provide absolutely zero green space and they have met the requirements."

Com. Harper, "And it is getting done. You've passed on subdivisions that have done that."

Com. Burrus, "I hear you and I understand and believe it has some merit. But until we change the ordinance, which you have proposed now, then the requirements these folks right here have to beat are zero."

Com. Harper, "That is not true, because we don't have to approve this subdivision. They are here asking us, we're not following the law by approving this subdivision. The law of the land right now is this is RR, that is the law of the land and they are coming to us and saying, fellas, we want permission to make money on this area and here is how we are going to do it. We are going to cut this out and cut down the trees, and by the way, I am still voting for it, and cut up the lots and sell this property and make money. That is what they are saying, and we want you, commissioners to give us permission to do that. Now we could say no, we could just say no. and they could say we are going to make half of it green space and we could say no. But, so they are asking for something and we could ask for something back. This is the greatest opportunity we have when they put in new subdivisions. There is no rule that says when they come in and ask for this subdivision, for this zoning change, we could ask for any thing we want. We can ask for retention, or we could ask for detention, we are not going to vote for this unless the water is going out. We can ask for whatever we want. Now I say they have gotten further than most, and I like that lake there and I like those three lakes and I like the idea they are going to be deep enough to fish in. I am telling you, don't make it sound like just because there is no green space ordinance if we don't approve this, that is the real benefit of this. We can say we think it should remain RR. Taking the excuse because of a sewer lines is . . . all of a sudden we have to do it, it is not true. I have to respond to that because I think that is where the problem is. We have to stand up and say, hey, we are --- to these people. The Plan Commission has asked them to come back a couple times, they weren't done on the drainage. As you said, we have required stuff. That activity place was not on the first plan. They came back with that, so we've got the same position, they are entitled to it."

Com. Burrus, "I want to again mention the fact that the drainage solution is the most significant component in their plan that has the long term benefit."

Com. Harper, "I think that is true."

Com. Evans, "Its nice to go last after that very intelligent conversation that just occurred here and I think it speaks well of everyone. This plan is probably an epitome of getting this subdivision through. You bring in a plan, we say this is not right, we want this, or that, you make those concessions and you come back and resubmit it. Everything has been considered, you brought it back through TAC twice. The written commitments in conjunction with what the Plan Commission does is what makes the whole system work. We can sit here and say well, we like 50% or we like 80% but if you don't have the plan in front of you and you can't go out to the site, then you are just guessing; numbers are arbitrary. I don't think 20% is adequate in some conditions and I don't think 5% is adequate in some conditions. I think you have to take each case on its value, that is the purpose of the Plan Commission is to evaluate those things and send it to us. Then send you back if the plan needs to be redone, which has already been done."

Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

With not further business to discuss the meeting was recessed.


BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
PORTER COUNTY, INDIANA

David L. Burrus
John A. Evans
Robert P. Harper


Attest: Sandra K. Vuko, Auditor