PORTER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 2, 2003
10:00 A.M.

The regular meeting of the Porter County Board of Commissioners convened at 10:00 a.m. on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 in the Commissioners' Chambers of the Administration Center.

Those present: Commissioners David Burrus, John Evans and Bob Harper and County Attorney Gwenn Rinkenberger.

President David Burrus called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance.

APPROVAL OF PAYROLL

Com. Evans moved to approve the payroll of December 1, 2003, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

APPROVAL OF CLAIMS

Com. Evans moved to approve the claims of December 2, 2003, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Com. Evans moved to approve the minutes of October 7, 2003 Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.


RECEIVE OFFICE SUPPLY BIDS FOR 2004

Com. Burrus, "We are going to move the CEDIT Plan discussion down to the end of the meeting so some of the department heads who are here for business have the option of staying rather than having to if they don't care to. Our next item then will be the receipting in and opening of office supply bids for 2004. We will read these and take them under advisement."

Com. Evans, "I think maybe in the future we should do away with the bidding process for office supplies and just have the department heads and office holders come up with the best price, then purchase it; keeping in mind some type of scale and approval from the Auditor's office. The way it is now is kind of tedious and the forms are pretty antiquated. "

Com. Burrus, "Your point is well taken, John. There has been a number of issues discussed in the past on this topic and possibly before next year rolls around we might look at some kind of re-configuration of this. The bids are multiple. There is a very long list of various kinds of office materials and supplies. We have them listed as Class I and Class II. The simplest thing would be to acknowledge the bidder and make these available for review and we will take them under advisement and make an announcement at a later date, possibly later in this meeting, but more likely at our next meeting, which will be two weeks from today."

Class I and Class III

Boyce Forms & Systems

Class III

Corporate Express
Kramer & Leonard
McShane's Inc.

OFFICE HOLDERS/DEPARTMENT HEADS
Highway 149 extension update
David Schelling, Highway Engineer
Steve Holder, Butler Fairman Seuffert

Com. Burrus, "I believe the topic we will be discussing has to do with the current status of our efforts to promote an extension of 149 between State Road 130 and US Highway 30."

Mr. Schelling, "I have Steve Holder with me, he is our expert from Butler Fairman & Seuffert. This is a project that has been in the works for quite some time; it was proposed to be designed at grade railroad crossings, and we got bridges in there and we are in the right of way acquisition phase right now. I will go ahead and turn this over to Steve for him to make his comments."

Mr. Holder, "Good morning. I think because Commissioner Harper is going to get his first taste of this project, I will take a little time and go through from the beginning of what has transpired in this project. Originally in 1992, this project started out being just a direct connection between State Road 149 and US 30 and it was supposed to be a direct connection with at grade crossings across these railroads. A cheap but effective way of getting from 30 up to 149. So, Butler Fairman and Seuffert was hired to design a roadway and we went into negotiations with the three different railroads and they all refused at grade crossings. They did the county a favor because at grade crossings as you are all aware, are very low capacity you never know what to expect when you don't know the lengths of the trains, you don't know what kind of delays there are going to be, there may be one after another. The bridges that cross over the railroads are very expensive, on the other hand you eliminate all that delay and attain an expressway status. That happened in 1993, then the state asked since the state highway is involved, this is a federal aid project and I need to say that INDOT is involved as the administrator of all federal funds. At that early stage, Larry Sheets had negotiated a contract with INDOT to share part of the county's share of this project, at least in the original development stages, and since this is a logical connection for INDOT to make themselves, it is in their long range plan, because it is beneficial, they agreed to share into some of the costs of this, but at that point the costs were estimated to be $3 or $4 million. In the beginning with at grade crossings, then the next step was with bridges over the railroads, large embankments to build up, get over the railroad, the cost went up to about $12 million. That is the way the project went forward. Plans were prepared and the field check was done with state highway. During that check, INDOT engineers were on the alignment with everybody else, and when they were walking across this property, the geotechnicals noticed there were some swampy areas so they took borings, found peat, mud, morrow, peat, everything in the world out there, ordered more borings, and additional analysis was done, they found deeper peat, more everything. It is in the lower areas, and this is where a lot of our embankment was to make the road level. Anyway, at that point, engineering stopped because we had discussed how to build the embankment across these soft areas; we believed that there was no way you could count on a road with deep embankments built on soft materials. The state said that traditionally they had removed the soft materials down to good materials, 30 or 40 feet down and built the road on top. We disagreed, we felt the bridges were the better way to go. It took us another 3-4 months to justify that decision. They did agree in the end that the cheaper way to do it is do a bridge across those bad areas so we went forward then with the design. The latest development is that because the project now is estimated to be $26 million, INDOT is needing to update their whole overview of this project. They are wondering if the $26 million is going to provide adequate return for that money for that investment. The county knows it will; the area knows it will; INDOT needs to familiarize themselves with the whole system, the highway network in this area and that is underway now. We will probably need to do a little update to our environmental study which was approved. We will also do anything else that INDOT asks us to do in order to bring everything up to speed with them. That's where we are right now. The right of way has been purchased. The congressman for district 1, Pete Visclosky, was able to secure high priority funds from the federal government and the amount of the ground, $3.8 million. That money at the time it was secured was supposed to pay for the engineering, right of way acquisitions, and whatever was left to go toward the construction project. That is still possible. Of course there will be additional engineering involved with designing these bridges and so forth, but we can move forward with that as soon as INDOT does their evaluation. We are looking at construction possibly as early as two years away but there is definitely a shortfall in construction funds. The plan is to do the design, buy the right of way and by the time the design is done hopefully we will start having funds accruing towards the construction of the project. That is as concise as I can be."

Com. Burrus, "We also invited representatives from INDOT here today to share their views, is there anyone here from INDOT? There is not."

Com. Harper, "I would like to ask some questions. When this $3.8 million that Con. Visclosky has for this project, when was that obtained?"

Mr. Holder, "Seems like it was in 1998 or 1999."

Com. Harper, "And at that time, the estimated cost was what?"

Mr. Holder, "Probably it was between the $3 or $4 million and the $12 million. So when this money was obtained, he had no idea that this project was going to go up to $26 million."

Com. Harper, "What does NIRPC have to do with this project?"

Mr. Holder, "They are the MPO for this area, which is Metropolitan Planning Organization. Every urban area in Indiana over a certain population is required to be represented by an MPO which does the planning throughout the region as far as transportation projects are concerned. And they distribute federal funds; so before the MPO, you had 35 cities and towns and counties all vying separately for federal funds. There was no real way of knowing what the right priorities were for the time. That is the deal as far as transportation money from the federal government is concerned, the MPO is the coordinator and one of the most important things the MPO does is prepare a transportation model which is a computer model and it has the transportation network throughout the area on it and they apply existing traffic volumes to that. Then they project land use and the model actually then will project traffic volumes. That is who the MPO is."

Com. Harper, "It is my understanding that without their approval, this project is not going forward. Is that true?"

Mr. Holder "Yes."

Com. Harper, "And it is further my understanding they have down graded this project since they learned about the additional cost, is that true?"

Mr. Holder, "No, that is not how I understand this. We had a meeting with them just a month ago and they are at this point, they have removed it from an active project because of the delays that are going to be encountered in getting this project design constructed. But they also have backed away for the moment because INDOT, is now doing their evaluation. So now NIRPC is waiting for their bosses to make some sort of statement."

Com. Harper, "Who was at that meeting?"

Mr. Holder, "Well, I don't know if I have that letter with me."

Mr. Schelling, "Steve Strange, Ken Delmeyer, David Holtz, myself, Steve Holder; I think that is about it. At the time, Dave Burrus had a conflict and could not make it. There was a situation where Holtz was coming up for something else and this was kind of an afterthought for NIRPC to discuss this project."

Com. Harper, "Maybe down grade is not the right word, but NIRPC has this as an active project at one point, it had the green light for go. Is that correct?"

Mr. Holder, "Yes."

Com. Harper, "And they have changed that, correct?"

Mr. Holder, "I think it is just a lot further in the future; they can's consider it as an imminent project."

Com. Harper, "If you envision NIRPC putting this $26 million into this project, where is the $26 million going to come from?"

Mr. Holder, "It is going to come from a number of pots of federal funds. We have already met with INDOT and have been discussing how this money is going to be obtained. It is not going to be obtained immediately, there are safety funds that . . ."

Com. Harper, "I am told by Visclosky's office that they don't think this is going through, have you talked to anyone at Visclosky's office?"

Mr. Holder, "No. Not lately we haven't."

Com. Harper, "I told Commissioner Burrus I am in favor of this project, but I am just trying to get to the bottom of what we are doing here. Dave, you wrote a letter advising no purchases be made at one point of property last year, correct?"

Mr. Schelling, "The reason I wrote that was because I wanted to have a firmer commitment for the construction money but that is really impossible to get at this time."

Com. Harper, "But it was your feeling that we might even have to pay back the federal government some of the money we have already taken from them, correct?"

Mr. Schelling, "That is a possibility. If the project doesn't get going, federal monies would be have to repaid."

Com. Harper, "Explain your letter, we went ahead and purchased one piece of property, how many acres was that?"

Mr. Schelling, "35 acres for one parcel."

Com. Harper, "And how much did we spend on that?"

Mr. Schelling, "About $188,000.00."

Com. Harper, "And what fund did that come out of, that $3.8 million that Con. Visclosky got from the county or where did that money come from?"

Mr. Schelling, "10% of the money was to be county money, 10% was state money and the remaining was from that federal money that Visclosky got for us."

Com. Harper, "How much have we spent engineering on this?"

Mr. Schelling, "So far, there are several projects, there is preliminary engineering, right of way engineering and right of way services. To date on those items, there is about $477,000.00."

Com. Harper, "Where the project stands now, we've bought 35 acres, where did the $477,000.00 come from?"

Mr. Schelling, "That wasn't a lump sum, that was over a period of time. Originally, we had $4000,000.00 we allocated in our Bridge Fund and what we did was pay the bill from that and then get reimbursed from the state for the federal money and then from the state for the state money."

Com. Burrus, "Same distribution, though, 80-10-10."

Com. Harper, "So we have been paid back for it. We put it in so it has probably been eaten away a little out of this $3.8 million, I mean that get used up. Now, and I wish someone was here from INDOT, and from NIRPC. Was there some talk to converting to these monies to a project for the 100 South project?"

Mr. Schelling, "The 100 South project in Porter County?"

Com. Harper, "Yes."

Mr. Schelling, "Not in Porter County but in a project on 109th Street in Lake County, which is 100 South in Porter County."

Com. Harper, "All right. There was some discussion in the future using some of this $3.8 million for the 109th. Con. Visclosky envisions 109th and 100 South being a thru-highway at some point. Wasn't there some discussion of using some of this money for that project?"

Com. Burrus, "Let me speak to that one, Bob. That was discussion that Larry and I had because 149 was in his district and 100 South was in mine and the idea was that both of them were viable projects and we evaluated them in our mind probably back in the spring of this year, and the conclusion that he and I reached was that still 149 had the priority and therefore the existing funding to be remaining in place even though 100 South would be significant as the 109th Street interchange develops."

Com. Harper, "Thank you, that's what I was wondering about. I had heard about this. Let me ask you this, Dave. I think NIRPC has talked about this project, but this being on the back burner now because of the cost, $26 million and could be more, and my concern is this EDIT plan has money set aside for that which I think it should, and I want to see the project go through, but I don't want see us set aside money for something that is not going to happen. Is there someone from NIRPC that can come here and give us a better handle on where this project stands and if they are going to be behind this project at the higher price?"

Mr. Schelling, "That really should come from INDOT in my opinion."

Com. Harper, "Why is that; why not NIRPC because NIRPC is the one that really has to approve these projects, right?"

Mr. Schelling, "It has to be on the transportation improvement plan but the thing is, NIRPC has control over Group 1 money, which is in the urban area. Both the 100 South project and also the 300 West project are in the rural area, so there is different funding."

Com. Harper, "Who controls that funding?"

Mr. Schelling, "INDOT."

Com. Harper, "Then shouldn't we have someone here from INDOT to give us an idea of where this stands?"

Mr. Schelling, "We did invite INDOT to this meeting, we were hoping they would be here."

Com. Harper, "Do you envision going out and buying more property now?"

Com. Burrus, "Several months ago before Larry passed away, we had numerous discussions on this and our question at that time was, is there a need for this project, and our conclusion was yes. Is there some risk associated with this project in terms of both financing and with the land acquisition and the answer is definitely yes. But our conclusion was that we wanted to persist with it to the point where we could at least accomplish the first initial phases of the project that we had control of right now and that was the engineering and the right of way acquisition. We all know from watching the 49 By-Pass develop over a period of 20 years that these things are not able to be done overnight and the ability to predict certain funding, certain numbers or anything else over a long period of time is virtually impossible. But the persistence that seems to be successful has to start somewhere and that is the conclusion this Board made in the early part of this summer when we said we will re-commit ourselves to this to the extent of the engineering and the right of acquisition. One of things that is important to keep in mind is right of way for highway purposes is a very precious commodity. We do not have the ability to build highways around something that may develop as we make the plans for the highway. For example, the corridor that is proposed for this road is somewhat open right now but it would only take some fairly creative commercial development along Highway 30 to completely close off this corridor. So we want to take advantage of the opportunity we have right now, take advantage of the funding we have right now; and keep on working with the idea that it could very well be an uphill battle. But these needs cannot be addressed without a certain amount of fight. That is what we intended to do."

Mr. Holder, "About the NIRPC connection. I brought this along because everybody is a bit concerned about whether or not this is the right step. This map in front is the original railroad bridges, then the red area is the additional bridges that it will take to cross these wetland areas. The 2nd and 3rd pages are letters, unsigned, that were done by the transportation engineer back in 1997 or 1998, where he actually inserted this link. The study is done by a series of links and notes and everyplace a road crosses and interacts with another one there is a node(?) or note(?) and of course the piece of road in between is the link, in this case this piece of road we are talking about there is no links so he inserted a link, ran the model, and came up with some conclusions. This is pretty dry reading, but the important news is at the bottom of page 2, it says, the road extension decreases the overall regional VMT (vehicle miles traveled) by 177,000 plus vehicle miles per day. This is very significant. Vehicle hours traveled by 673,000 hours per day until the year 2017. Now what we are talking about in vehicle hours traveled, when you reduce vehicle hours traveled in one day by 673,000 what you have done is lowered delay all over the whole planning area; this hasn't just affected a little area in Porter County. This affects things all the way to the Illinois state line throughout the area. So, the next page has a spread sheet and what I did was I took that amount, reduced the land and just multiplied it by $15.00 an hour which is typical standard transportation engineering tool and what you do is you wind up saving per day with this link, region-wise and just wasted hours to save $10 million a day. When we had our original meeting with NIRPC last spring they hadn't seen this. The personnel had changed there, so, I brought this up with them and they agreed it was significant and they agreed to make new model runs because one of the things that wasn't done in this was this was a quick check of how efficient this link would be. One of the things they didn't do was get a reduction in air pollutants. This is a non-containment area; there is an EPA mandate to produce cleaner air in these transportation areas where there is too much smog. We don't know how much the ozone is going to be reduced; we don't know how much particular matter is going to be reduced and we don't know how much sulfur dioxide is going to be reduced. We don't know how much each of those is going to be reduced but this brings in money from other areas in order to make this happen. That makes additional money available from other areas of federal aid that aren't normal of pieces of highway that are built from here to there. Anyway, I gave this to David Holtz at our last meeting here with INDOT and NIRPC and it made quite a difference in the way INDOT is going to be in the project."

Com. Harper, "INDOT has changed the status of this project also, have they not?"

Mr. Holder, "As I said earlier, they are meeting to reassess everything."

Com. Harper, "At one point, they have put their stamp of approval on this project, now they have taken it off and are re-working the whole thing and it is not on the approve project list at this time."

Mr. Holder, "I don't believe it is changed any status; they are doing an assessment to see what kind of status change might be . . . "

Com. Harper, "Right, it has gone from being an approved project to one that they are reassessing."

Mr. Holder, "They haven't withdrawn anything yet. We have design approval, we have all those things, their needing to see if, and this is in the letter . . ."

Com. Harper, "I am in favor of this project but I think everyone needs to know, before the money is spent, that the cards are on the table. Everything I have read and the people I have talked to said this project is virtually back to square one with INDOT where they are reassessing the entire project based on the cost and they are looking at the whole thing. Am I correct about that?"

Mr. Holder, "You are correct about one thing; they are reassessing the project. Everything else is not correct."

Mr. Schelling, "The construction funding has never been approved so they didn't remove that because it never has been."

Com. Burrus, "We have to all keep in mind that the process is very complicated and complex, it has different pots of money; different labels; different people have different responsibilities. It is certainly a puzzle trying to work your way through the maze. Personally, I am pleased to hear you say you are in favor of the project and I hope in spite of some of the complexities of it that we can remain firm in our commitment here to see it go forward. Once again, I think the expectation has to be long term versus short term. We are obviously going to have setbacks, have things we have to solve and we have to continually search for various sources of funding for the construct phase in particular. I still think it is worthwhile to be able to accomplish these preliminary activities as we go so we don't jeopardize that piece of the puzzle while we are trying to solve future pieces. I guess if that makes any sense, that is my view."

Com. Evans, "I think the reassessment on the part of INDOT is being done primarily because of the engineering standpoint, isn't it? The fact that we went from a at grade crossing level to a bridge to now we are probably going to end up with a highway that is supported nearly by a bridge structure from its start to its finish. Those things obviously change the cost involved. It changed everyone's attitude and became an engineering nightmare. I think that is really the causative agent of the reassessment rather than anything having to do with property acquisition or anything else we have been involved in up to this point."

Mr. Holder, "Yes, that is right. The cause of the increase in cost over time, INDOT never did go back and revisit that because it has sort of been a moving target but once we got design approval on this latest course of engineering, then it is understanding for INDOT to step in and say okay, now we need to look at the environmental, we need to look at everything again and make sure everything is in place and understood and all of the paperwork is filled out; it is all understood and we have a course of action to take."

Com. Harper, "But their decision is partly based on cause, so they evaluate a project not only based on the engineering, they evaluate a project on the basis of cost and that is what is causing this re-evaluation; the cost of this project."

Mr. Holder, "The cost is right now only because the engineering has gone far enough for us to be able to somehow develop a cost."

Com. Burrus, "But we have to keep in mind that those costs are always offset by the benefits or least we hope they are. One of the things that will influence these decisions will be the display of local resolve. If we are going to be faint hearted here then we are not going to get the kind of support we need out of Indianapolis. If we are sincere about feeling this strongly about the need for this project, then we are going to have to show a strong front that says this is going to have to go forward in spite of some of these unpredictable eventualities. I am hoping this Board remains unanimous on that. I know the concerns, certainly there are going to be concerns, but those things are going to have to be dealt with and solved."

Com. Harper, "Here's what concerns me. In the first place, thank God if this project goes through most of the money is going to come from federal and state. I just thought it was important that everyone know what we are faced with in this project. If three years from now and something happens and this project doesn't go through, I think the general public has a right to know that decisions were made; what they were made on; and the risks that are run by those decisions. I was concerned that everyone know what is going on here. I am not sure we have gotten all the answers today, but at least I think we know what some of the pitfalls are. As I understand it, the work of the committee now is to get money out of this EDIT to continue with this project at this point and continue exploring to see if those monies do come through from the federal government. But I thought it was important that everyone know what the pitfalls are."

Com. Burrus, "That is a very good point. It is not without risk; we realize that. My own conclusion is it is not going to be a matter of this project either being built or not being built, it is a matter of when it is going to be built. Again, referring back to the 49 Bypass, that took over 20 years to accomplish, but it ultimately was done. Another point to be made, I would like to emphasize that with a $3.8 million federal commitment to this, our 10% share is going to be somewhere $380,000.00. I think within the draft of the CEDIT plan that we are prepared to talk about here later in the meeting, we are approaching that figure so we are simply trying to insure that the money is there. At some point in time if it does not move forward like we think it will, that money can be re-allocated. Is it appropriate for this Board to address a motion reaffirming our commitment to this project or is that not necessary at this time?"

Com. Evans, "If it will help INDOT make their decision, I would be glad to make that motion."

Com. Evans moved to reaffirm Porter County's commitment to the 149 Extension Project, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Valerie (unidentified woman in audience), "In 1992, they put it on the books for INDOT. We are getting _______ 2004. We had to keep up the engineering, we had to put all the effort into getting and keeping the project going. If you don't keep it current, they will let it die. The cost for their people of moaning and complaining and oh, you did this once before, they kept pushing us farther, we just kept up there with it and attended all the meetings, made sure we were in the forefront and we were still on the books for 2004. So if this is something you really want, you have to stay current."

MUTUAL AID AGREEMENT BETWEEN JASPER, LAKE, LAPORTE, NEWTON AND PORTER COUNTIES

Phil Griffith, Emergency Management Director

Mr. Griffith, "The Northwest Indiana Emergency Management Agencies all have
been working together well over a year and we have also involved NIRPC in this. Due to Commissioner Sheets' illness and subsequent death, we kind of got to the rear of this. The other four counties have all signed it; that is Jasper, Newton, Lake and Laporte and in addition to that all the area hospitals have entered into an agreement in all the counties except Newton which doesn't have a hospital. The basis of the contract allows us to share information and resources in the event it is actually needed and seek federal reimbursement. The federal government is really pushing the regional concept to make grants available for equipment and training. We are also working with the state task force on anti-terrorism to develop a plan to protect the northern shores of Lake Michigan and our jurisdiction is for three counties. There is a lot going into this. I submitted each of you a copy of the agreement which was written by Ice Miller down in Indianapolis and the attorney, Gwenn, has gone through the contract and I don't think she has a problem with it."

Com. Burrus, "We do have a copy of the proposed contract and a proposed resolution that would accompany that."

Com. Harper, "What is the financial impact of this agreement?"

Mr. Griffith, "Basically, nothing. Right now it allows us to, most of the fire departments and police departments already have an existing contract. The Emergency Management agencies do not. If we actually have to go to Lake County for some reason, it allows us to seek federal reimbursement. Without the Mutual Aid contract we would be going over . . . ."

Com. Harper, "That is not my question. My question is this: by signing this agreement, are you saying you need more equipment or more manpower or so forth to fulfill obligations in this agreement?"

Com. Burrus, "I think that the fact that the Homeland Security Office now is providing us with grants for various kinds of equipment that we never had before in anticipation of this kind of cooperation."

Com. Harper, "So, you don't see coming in for more budget because of this agreement?"

Mr. Griffith, "No, I agree with Dave. It will be just the opposite. We would be able to instead of hiring more staff in my office, I would be able to pull from the other offices. Each one of us in the counties outside of Laporte have maybe three employees where Laporte has five. So it allows me to, during a crisis, to actually pull some of their people over here if they are not involved in the crisis themselves."

Com. Harper, "Has the attorney looked at this and seen anything that would require any financial ________?"

Atty. Rinkenberger, "It seems to me that if we are to involve the creation of the joint board that . . . "

Mr. Griffith, "Right. The joint board would be made up of each one of the EMA directors and the president of each of the County Commissions. So we would have a ten member board with each of the five counties having two votes to do anything."

Com. Harper moved to accept the Mutual Aid Agreement as presented, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

SHERIFF TRAINING FACILITY UPDATE

Sheriff David Reynolds, Chief Deputy David Lain, E-911 Director David Sheibels

Sheriff, "I met with the Northwest Indiana Building Trades Council last week and they agreed to work with us regarding all the trades regarding construction of our range, which we are going to refer to as our Training Facility. That is a great and tremendous asset for us in the sense that we will be able to stay within the money we have appropriated to be around $600,000.00. We are pretty excited about that. I have been working with the county attorney regarding the actual process and how we are going to go about doing that and we are going to be meeting within the next couple weeks."

Com. Harper, "Have you done any projection regarding utilities, insurance, cleaning the facilities and so forth?"

Sheriff, "No, but our intention is to provide all the maintenance inside the building. As far as the NIPSCO bill, well we haven't gotten to that point yet."

Com. Evans, "The staying within the budget is critical. I understand there are no other funds available. Those funds were ear marked for that purpose from the beginning and that is what they should be used for."

Sheriff, "I understand. That is why I am working on that. I know it will not be done unless I have some help from the outside. I am really grateful from the building trades perspective to come in and help me with the actual construction."

Com. Evans, "And you should be commended for forwarding those funds to the County to function for the last month or so here to get through the last part of the crisis and they were given with the condition that they would be repaid. It is certainly my intent to make sure that will occur. I have heard talk to the contrary. But if that is what they were intended for, then a deal is a deal and it should be kept."

PORTER COUNTY PUBLIC SAFETY COMMUNICATIONS TASK FORCE

Chief Deputy Dave Lain

Chief Lain, "Phil Griffith, Dave Sheibels and I are representing a consortium if you will, of all public service agencies within Porter County. Commissioner Burrus had a representative sit on the committee. I think the official title had been given the Porter County Public Safety Communications Task Force. This was a group that began meeting last year. Because of some infrastructure concerns that we have on public safety communications. I know that Commissioner Burrus, and I am sure the other Commissioners are aware, too, of the age of some of our really critical communication equipment throughout the public safety aspect of the county. We literally have equipment that is operating off of vacuum tubes, if that tells you where the technology is now. So we decided it would be advantageous to meet together rather than separately as in the past and our first phase of this entire task force was to seek out and recommend to the Commissioners a vendor for at this point just maintenance issues of the existing equipment there is a firm plan to upgrade the equipment and that will be forthcoming in the future. At this point, the committee felt it was ready to recommend that the Commissioners select a vendor for these maintenance issues. Just to kind of backtrack a little bit, we weren't rewriting history books back in the mid 90's prior to my arrival, the Commissioners at that time had a similar agreement set up with another vendor for maintenance issues. I don't know if that was county-wide or just certain agencies, but we are recommending that be reinstituted because for the last five, six, seven years, each agency has kind of acted independently on their individual piece of the communications pie and has not necessarily chosen the same vendor. What we have ended up with is a conglomeration of systems and vendors who have said well, this is not my piece, I cant work on this; this system doesn't interact well with another system so it is really an effort to bring together all different areas into one umbrella. Dave is definitely the technical advisor because neither Phil or I really understand how radio works."

Com. Burrus, "Specifically what we are talking is about the radio equipment that dispatches such services as fire, ambulance, EMA, the Sheriff's Police; what else is involved with this?"

Chief Lain, "The Highway Department also, HAZMAT."

Com. Burrus, "Okay, we are talking about all of our emergency response people and all of these dispatch functions funnel through a couple of relay towers on County Road 600 North and the equipment at the base of those towers is very near to failure, we believe. So your effort here is to try to home in on a single qualified vendor who can not only maintain what we have there but also look forward to helping us upgrade this equipment. Now, Phil, on a previous visit here you told us that you submitted grant money that was going to be able to be used for some of this upgrade, is that correct?"

Mr. Griffith, "We have submitted a grant to replace all of the aging equipment and upgrade our systems; we have not received a notification back, in fact, nobody in the state has, from the Homeland Security on where this money actually is. I have sent all kinds of applications but I have not received a response."

Com. Burrus, "The point is the grant application is underway and it has some potential success there. The other thing I want to stress is that we mentioned a lot of times in our budget cutback scenarios around here we have postponed a lot of building or real estate maintenance what we refer to as 'scheduled maintenance.' This is another example that we cannot allow this to continue. These kinds of facilities are critical to our emergency response and we are going to have to make sure that we not only have them up to a dependable status but we are able to have a reasonable back up. So, the effort you guys are going through to try to coordinate these efforts to try to consolidate these efforts is absolutely essential. I appreciate what you have done there. I think the commitment has to be that failing any kind of funding from the grant source, we are going to need to belly up to the bar with some additional funding to make sure we do have back up and the redundancy necessary to insure safety. That is my view on where we are going with this thing."

Com Harper, "In the first place, whose budget is this money going to be in?"

Chief Lain, "At this point, we are not even discussing funds. Right now we are discussing our committee recommendation as far as a vendor; identifying a vendor."

Com. Harper, "In my way of thinking, once we get the vendor and we are going to get the bids, so whose money would this budget be under?"

Com. Burrus, "Let me address that if I could. Unless there is some outside funding, there is going to be multiple _________ that are going to have to coordinate and participate."

Com. Harper, "It would seem to me that all of this is going to need Council approval before this money is spent. Number two, did any money out of the jail bond go to any equivalent for communications?"

Chief Lain, "The communications as far as the jail, that building is entirely new equipment, there was nothing identified for the remote sites; the repeater sites."

Com. Harper, "Is that all you are talking about is your remote sites?"

Chief Lain, "Correct."

Com. Harper, "Is all you are talking about is your antennas, you are not talking
about equipment for cars?"

Chief Lain, "No, no cars."

Com. Harper, "You are not talking about equipment for stations?"

Com. Burrus, "That is basically it."

Chief Lain, "At this point, we are not even talking about money for equipment. But in the future. . ."

Com. Harper, "I understand that but there has got to be a thought process going on here in where we are going and that is what I am trying to find out."

Chief Lain, "In the future, we are going to be addressing the absolute need for not only tower sights, we are talking about repeaters at several remote sites throughout the County and again, I am getting a little out of my field because I am edging into the technical, but we have the base communications come from Porter County Jail site, the Sheriff's Department. They then go to a main repeater on 600 North, then there are other repeaters so that communications can be maintained. One site can't communicate throughout the county because of geographical and power issues. So, there is a need for, I think we've got seven or eight remote sites."

Dave Sheibels, "Seven remote sites, two repeater sites and three microwave sites."

Com. Harper, "Is the system working or not right now?"

Chief Lain, "I can only say that it is working and that is in quotes."

Com. Harper, "Well, what is wrong with it?"

Chief Lain, "Some components are approaching if not surpassed, 40 years old, this is radio equipment. I think, our main repeater is designed to operate at 300 watts and the best we can get out of it is 60. So it is working, but severely under power."

Com. Harper, "So if you haven't decided what you are going to do yet, what do you need to pick one vendor for? It would seem to me that you should get bids from these people to see what kind of bids you would have on this project."

Chief Lain, "What we have done is the parameters that the committee felt needed to be addressed and rather than, and I don't really want to burden you with the volume of this project all in this one morning, so I what I am hoping for is to let you know what the committee's recommendations are and then at your leisure, you can bring yourself up to speed exactly why we arrived at this recommendation."

Com. Burrus, "What they have really done, Bob, is to compile a list of request for qualifications and in turn, having reviewed those qualifications, have come up with a recommendation. Now what we do with it is going to be our business. The significant thing is to realize and recognize that this group of emergency service providers for the first time has begun to be coordinated."

Com. Harper, "I think that is fine. I would rather fix all broken transmitters and receivers, and we are not talking about improvement in the cars or anything like that?"

Chief Lain, "What page is that?"

Com. Evans, "Could we do this in a little more succinct manner and write it out in bid format and ask for RFQ's for specific job functions. I mean, this is pretty broad."

Chief Lain, "Well remember what I have given you is just so you know what we looked at. Here are the responses."

Com. Evans, "I have seen the inside of that closet, it is like a walk into ancient times when you open that door and look at that equipment."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "What I would recommend is this is already been sent out and you have gotten responses, what this Board needs is a summary form, that is what the department heads and elected officials do if they want us to take action on their recommendation is to get all that data and put it in a summary form for us so we know how many people responded, who responded, what their responses were and then you pass that out and then this Board will be able to be in position to approve the recommendation of the committee. That is the way it probably should go."

Com. Burrus, "I think what you are talking about here is a matter of format and I didn't understand you didn't need action today. So if we can address the format that Gwenn is talking about and the concerns that Bob had with respect to what the intent is, why can't we address this at a subsequent meeting and be prepared to make a decision at that point. I think the important thing is that, and Bob's point is the target, is that "is it working today" and the answer is yes; and "are we anticipating any problems" well, we don't know. How can you anticipate these things? With our fragile system, a problem is certainly possible and this is the kind of thing you don't want to take a chance on. While it is not urgent, we need to keep moving on it. If you can make those changes, would that be acceptable to everybody?"

Com. Harper, "Yes."

Mr. Sheibels, "We are pretty much there because we wrote specifications; we had vendor conference meetings; we had presentations; we've had several level of meetings with different vendors so we have covered all those bases; I think we just need to summarize as Gwenn was saying. I think we have done all those steps."

Com. Burrus, "Okay, lets put it in that format and give us a print out in advance of a meeting and we will be prepared to review and discuss it at a subsequent meeting."

Com. Evans, "If you will look in the crystal ball, what is the chance for the grants?"

Mr. Griffith, "I think it is very good. We should, by the end of the year, be able to replace all the aging equipment."

Com. Harper, "You put the application in for the grants already, how much did you ask for?"

Mr. Griffith, "$380,000.00. That includes more than just radio equipment; that is county wide. That is for municipalities and everything; that is all Homeland Security."

Com. Burrus, "How much would be available for this particular concern?"

Mr. Griffith, "Close to $180,000.00, nearly half."

PLAN COMMISSION AND BUILDING AND PLANNING BUDGET

Bob Thompson, Plan Commission Director

Mr. Thompson, "I had a meeting over with Sheila in the Auditor's office and was told that we had to have a separate budget done for the Building, Planning and Zoning Fund that was established so I apologize for not getting this done sooner but I made up a little report. Basically what we did was just combine the existing Plan Commission and Building Department budgets from last year into one. Changes from last year are: Building Commissioner Ray Weltz is requesting a full time building inspector. The other item is the Plan Commission at their November meeting voted to go back to two meetings a month and that is at $50.00 per member. I had to go up and raise the expenses of the Boards, plus BZA is requesting to go back up to $50.00 per meeting versus their $25.00 so that number went from $6,000.00 to $10,700.00. Other major changes obviously, $106,000.00 to cover the department's FICA, medical and life insurance and PERF. With that our total budget is going to come out to $400,326.00. I figure with this report I can give you the following break down of what actually this money is being used for. 87% of this budget is just covering the salaries and the benefits for the employees that are up there and which are listed on the form. 7% of the budget is broken down to attorney fees for the Plan Commission and also Board costs. 2% of that is travel expenses which is the Building Inspectors putting in for their mileage costs for going out and doing their building inspections. It ends up being 96% of our budget, 4% is for miscellaneous expenses such as office supplies, maintenance agreements and other items, such as code books, and also state statute books to keep myself up on planning laws. I don't think there is any waste in this but per our Building, Planning and Zoning Fund Ordinance that was set up, the Commissioners now have the approval of all expenses that come out of that fund. Therefore, I am bringing the budget to you all for approval."

Com. Burrus, "This will be for calendar year 2004?"

Mr. Thompson, "Yes. Originally when I called down to Linda I knew I was getting this to you all late but I felt that by the December 16th meeting I was going to get it down to you. I decided to at least present it to the Commissioners and if you want to review it and approve it at the December 16th meeting, that is fine. I have to have it to the Council at the reorganization meeting in January for their approval."

Com. Evans, "You are hiring one full time building inspector and there will be two part time that will work on an hourly basis, what is the status there currently?"

Mr. Thompson, "We have Ray in the Building Department, he does have a part timer that does come in every day and he has a part time that is on very limited. So we are adding one."

Com. Harper, "When you have a complaint about a violation to the zoning ordinance, like junk cars, I assume you cover things like that, who does that? If you get a call that people are parking semi's on the right of way or junk cars, who handles that?"

Mr. Thompson, "It comes through my office."

Com. Harper, "Do you have enough help to do that?"

Mr. Thompson, "Right now I am the one that is doing it and right now I will be totally honest with you, I am doing a very poor job. Due to the fact I don't have the time to do it."

Com. Harper, "I am told that even before the Commissions or anybody else has a complaint there is just not any time to get anybody out there to take care of it and follow up. I am, as everybody here knows, real concerned about those types of things. I think it is important to the future development of our county that we enforce these ordinances. Strange as it may seem, I think we should encourage you to add a person to do that. I just cant see neighbors with cars sitting around that aren't running; semis sitting in right of ways; people putting up with it and us not having somebody to address that problem, I think it is a shame."

Com. Burrus, "Bob, I think you and John had talked about that before, correct?"

Mr. Thompson, "Correct. I did go to the Council and Commissioner Evans did support me at the Council to get the hiring freeze lifted for the assistant Planning and Zoning Inspector. That position was the one that was doing the code and also trying to help me out in the office. I did come down and have conversations with Commissioner Burrus after I pleaded with the Plan Commission to help me out of this situation about the possibility of having a Code Enforcing Officer. Right now I am trying to get out to subdivisions before the snow flies to get some of these subdivisions approved and that is one of the reasons why this is late."

Com. Harper, "I suggest you try again to get that person in. I will go with you and I think the other two will go with you also to talk to them because I am getting calls from people that say water is draining over our land here and this is parked here and there, and there is nothing we can do about it. We really have a nice looking community and we have to do something about this. We talk about public safety all day, and to me that is a critical need. I would suggest you rewrite this and add that person. If it gets shot down, it does, but at least try to get it through."

Com. Burrus, "I don't think there is any opposition to that. John, I know you are on board and I am on board, but the question still comes up to the ability to become self sufficient when you look at the revenue side as well. If we have the to allow us to do that, we don't have any objections to that. I know Mike Ayleworth is here, representing the Home Builders. Mike, you have expressed your concern a number of time that you would support our proposed fee structure based on the hope that there would be adequate response in terms of inspections and issues from the builders side."

Mike Alyesworth, "The Builder's Association has supported this and we wrote letters to that effect to raise the fees so that you could have a fund that would be self sustaining and provide adequate inspections is now not forthcoming because of budgetary concerns. Ray Weltz does need help up there, he really does. The builders have a complaint that it takes too long to get people out for inspections. Code enforcement is another thing and I agree with Bob, we need that. Whether the fund is going to have enough money for that, I don't know. The builders supported the concept of proper enforcement, proper inspections; and a self contained fund. We still stand by that. We are willing to pay our fair share in inspection fees so that the money doesn't come out of the county general fund. It comes from the builder's, an association of builders; from the people who build homes. They should pay for this. We are willing to do this and again, we want it done properly and judiciously."

Com. Evans, "I think we are all on the same page. I think the problem lies in that the Council's charge is we do it under the budget that is there in what you are able to raise and what the fees are going to bring in, or forget it because they pretty much put it in black and white; don't come back to the general fund for any more money."

Com. Harper, "Does the Building Department in Portage have charges for discretions and so forth that we do not have?"

Mr. Thompson, "I would have to actually check."

Com. Harper, "I am told they charge for a lot of different things that we don't. I mean I am just trying to figure out a way, I would ask that you contact them and find out what their fee structure is what they charge for them. I am told they have a lot more sources of revenue from their building department which might take care of this problem. Maybe we can give this thirty days and when we revisit it next time, I would like to see we have the help to make sure that our ordinances are being followed to keep our countryside the way they should be."

Mr. Thompson, "I also attached a new fee structure. January 1st we are starting up a new fee structure."

Com. Harper, "You showed us what we have taken in so far, do you think that will add to it? Will it make it better?"

Mr. Thompson, "It all depends on the economy and how things go. If we had a code enforcement officer and a few other things on there, our projections were with the fee structure, just stay along, Ray and I were thinking that this restructure could possibly develop us up to $450,000.00 at the current building pace. If we slow up, we are going to be hurting. One of the things I always questioned is in my opinion, code enforcement officers, as far as junk cars and stuff like that is a benefit to the public. My next question is, some of these items end up going to court and we do have one recently where Judge Chidester levied fines against the violator; my questions is where do these fines go?"

Atty. Rinkenberger, "They probably go back into the general fund and that is why when we drafted the ordinance and the parameters for this, we left it wide open for the Plan Commission to go back to the County Council and ask for money if they needed it. A lot of those things go back into the general fund."

Com. Burrus, "The intent on that provision in the ordinance, arose from the realization that this level of economic development particularly in the building industry is not expected to be continuous and increasing from here on out. Some of us can remember about 15 or 20 years when building permits issued in Porter County were virtually nil. Therefore, that provision is there so the county general fund does have the responsibility to support this budget in the event that building permits and subsequent fees that go along with them do drop significantly. I think, if the Board is in agreement, we should have Bob do two things: number 1 is review these fee issues requested and at the same time revise your proposed budget to reflect the changes that John suggested and as soon as you can and give us an income projection that we can address at our next meeting. You need to have this by the end of the year, is that correct Bob?"

Mr. Thompson, "Correct, the first meeting of January for the County Council I have to have this budget approved."

Com. Harper, "Contact Portage and find out what kinds of things they have. Someone told me they were charging for some services that we are not."

Com. Evans, "I was part of the negotiations in bringing Bob back here and one of the things we discussed was a contract for his services and I think we should entertain that, too."

Com. Burrus, "You can bring that to the table at our next meeting, also. We will be moving along here to finish up any business under Department Heads now."

SUBMIT ORIGINAL DRAWING OF COUNTY SEAL TO COMMISSIONERS

Jackie Sterling, Porter County Recorder

Ms. Sterling, "I have something on a little lighter note. As I wind my tenure down here at the County as an elected official, I was going through some things I had put away in safe places. Some years ago, the Highway Department, in their basement, had a storage place for the offices. We were to go through the stuff and get rid of the items we didn't want or need. One of my girls came to me and said she found this in the pile of discards and the packrat that I am, I saved it. I had it put away in a safe spot and now I want to give it to you because I think it belongs to the County. What it is, is the original drawing of our County logo and it was designed by an 18 year old student at Chesterton High School by the name of David Reiger. His family has some history here in Porter County. His mother was raised on Sunset Hill Farm, Arlene Peterson. Her father worked for the farm there and I wanted to give this to you to do with what you feel is necessary."

Com. Burrus, "Thank you, Jackie, we appreciate that."

Com. Evans, "I think we ought to send that to the Museum. Thank you, Jackie. And thank you for your service of all these years."

Ms. Sterling, "I have enjoyed it."

CORRESPONDENCE

Weights and Measures monthly report for November, 2003 is on file.

Acceptance of Tammy Gregg dependants to Porter County Government's Employee Benefit Plan

Com. Harper, "I have a question about that. I think we should have an explanation on why these late enrollees are on the agenda, and here's my concern. If it is someone that it was a simple oversight that is one thing, but if this is an employee that has decided not to be in the Plan for a substantial period of time, and then all of a sudden needs the coverage, that serves a disservice to the rest of the employees that are paying for their benefits all along. In the future, I would like to have an explanation of what this late enrollees are about."

Com. Evans, "The insurance agent usually does that for each enrollee. The late enrollees many times are due to births of children, or divorce situations where they become responsible . . ."

Com. Harper, "Which is fine, because I have been told it is sometimes used for people that have opted not to take the coverage and then all of a sudden they need it which is perhaps a good thing to do except it is done at the cost of all of the other members of the Plan that paid their money each money. So I would just like to get a good explanation of those. I keep seeing late enrollees and I would just like a good explanation of that."

Com. Burrus, "To an extent this is provided, we do have the data sheet and the recommendation from the insurance rep but we can certainly request a more detailed request."

Com. Evans, "And with the federal governments' HIPAA's regulations, I don't know many times if we are allowed to know why someone is requesting, only allowed to know if they are qualified to become a member of the Plan. That is under the direct recommendation of the insurance agent. We went through this when we were doing the cost cutting thing and eliminated all the people on the Plan that didn't belong there. We told people that had spouses that were on the Plan that had insurance offered to them at their work, that they were no longer able to keep their spouses on our insurance and we do administer it pretty judiciously."

Com. Harper, "And I have no problem with this particular one. All I am saying is that I have talked to the insurance agent also and I understand that there have been times when it is used for people that have not paid to be in the Plan and then they come up with a problem and decide they need the Plan. This is not that type of situation, obviously, but it just seems that is not fair to the rest of the employees. We should have a complete explanation when we are asked for a late enrollee. And I have no problem with this one, and I will move we accept it."

Com. Harper moved to accept Tammy Gregg's five dependants to the Porter County Government Employee Benefit Health Plan with coverage to be effective December 1, 2003, Com. Evans seconded,

Com. Evans, "Even if they are not on the Plan and they apply and they meet the requirements, I don't know if we can keep them off."

Com. Harper, "If we don't have some sort of pre-existing requirement, I think you cant have an employee that gets in the middle of a problem and then all of a sudden decide they want to be on the Plan, while other employees have been paying for four or five years to be on the Plan. I think there are some requirements."

Com. Evans, "That's what I said that if they meet the requirements, I don't know if we can keep them off."

Com. Harper, "I am not trying to keep anybody off, I am just trying to make sure it is fair for everyone."

Com. Burrus, "One thing we can do on this is to have the explanation presented a little more thoroughly."

Motion carried.

PROPOSED 2004 HOLIDAY SCHEDULE FOR EMPLOYEES

Com. Burrus, "My understanding is that this is similar to the number of days we have had in the past, this is on file for anyone who wants to read it."

Thursday, January 1New Year's Day
Monday, January 19Martin Luther King Jr. Day
Monday, February 16President's Day
Friday, April 9Good Friday
Tuesday, May 4Primary Election
Monday, May 31Memorial Day
Monday, July 5Independence Day
Monday, September 6Labor Day
Monday, October 11Columbus Day
Tuesday, November 2Election Day
Thursday, November 11Veteran's Day
Thursday, November 25Thanksgiving Day
Friday, November 26Thanksgiving
Friday, December 24Christmas Eve

Com. Evans moved to approve the 2004 Holiday Schedule, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.


Request for two additional days of bereavement leave for Susanna Villarruel

Com. Evans moved to approve two additional days of bereavement leave for Susanna Villarruel due to the death of her father, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Request for Transfer of Funds-Commissioners' Office

Fund 01.30$4,500.00from acct 3520Water and Sewage
Into acct 3976Assessed Benefits

Needed to pay taxes on ditch assessments

Com. Evans moved to approve, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Discussion regarding service agreement with Johnson Controls effective January 1, 2004

Com. Burrus, "I wanted to explain a couple things. Johnson Controls is the firm that provides maintenance services on a contractual basis on several of our buildings. We have three contracts existing, actually four. We have the Administration Center, Juvenile Detention Center, the Jail and several other buildings packaged together. In an effort to reduce cost overall, we have been negotiating with Johnson and other contractors to see if we could not save money or improve our situation on the maintenance contract for the new jail. We have found there are a couple things that we can do and I have made an indication to Johnson Control pending the outcome of this discussion that we would interested. The aggregate cost of all contracts could be reduced by about $60,000.00 if we package them together under one and if they were also to put all of our facilities under a computer monitor system that would give them advanced notice of many problems before they might occur. You can consider that somewhat of a 'wellness program.' The bottom line is that they would be willing to package these savings at about $60,000.00. We have a copy of the contract on file, and if you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them for you as I was the one who was in discussion with Johnson to date."

Com. Evans, "Yes, this didn't just happen overnight. There has been a lot of discussions and a lot of brow beating and I think you did an excellent job."

Com. Harper, "This is a maintenance contract, am I right? Maintenance on heating and air conditioning?"

Com. Burrus, "Yes, and electronic equipment, fire equipment, virtually all of the automated systems."

Com. Harper, "Is this contract for about $1.5 million for the next five years?"

Com. Burrus, "Approximately $295,000.00 total for one year and that is down from about $355,000.00 total from previous years."

Com. Harper, "Have they done this in previous years? Have they been the ones who maintained our equipment in previous years?"

Com. Burrus, "Yes, at least in part."

Com. Harper, "Who has done North County Complex because I know they have all kinds of problems; heat problems and different kinds of things."

Com. Evans, "We replaced the boilers; that building was built in the 70's and it is going to have maintenance problems."

Com. Burrus, "One of the things we did do this past year was to replace the boiler up there. That came out of our replacement responsibility, but Johnson Control has the maintenance repair."

Com. Evans, "They didn't do the work for the boiler, they are simply maintaining it after it was installed."

Com. Burrus, "And they were trying to maintain it before."

Com. Evans, "Yes, it was band-aid and wired together."

Com. Harper, "I assume you have checked other places for prices on this."

Com. Burrus, "Yes, we have, a number of them."

Com. Harper, "It seems to me to be a lot of money to take care of, $300,000.00 a year. Do they have to replace anything if it breaks, do we have replacement costs?"

Com. Burrus, "The majority of this has a built-in insurance coverage, if you will, whereby not only do they do the labor but they also provide the repair parts. I would be glad to share any additional records on that if you want."

Com. Harper, "No, it was just a shocker to me. I looked at the utility costs and they shocked me. It is just cost on top of cost."

Com. Evans moved to approve Johnson Control's contract for maintenance on county buildings, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

COMMISSIONERS' REPORTS

Center District: Com. Harper

1.Center Minor Subdivision #1437-A-1 Road Agreement, located on the south side of Pokeberry Court. Offer to contribute $750.00/lot for a total of $2,250.00. Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

2.Hall's Acres Addition Road Agreement, located on the north side of Division Road just east of CR 450 East. Offer to contribute $750.00/lot for a total of $1,500.00. Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

3.Fox Burrow Run, Unit I acceptance of Chicory Lane (310') and Kirsten Court (246'). Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

4.Fox Burrow Run, Unit II acceptance of Kirsten Court (280') and Fox Burrow Court (570'). Recommend approval.

Com. Harper moved to approve, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

South District: Com. Burrus

1. Morgan Estates Subdivision Performance Letter of Credit #630 from Centier Bank in the amount of $15,000.00. Recommend approval.

Com. Burrus, "While I would like to recommend approval on that, I will point out that this is for the construction of a retention pond in Morgan Estates that has been incomplete or even unstarted since about 1998. I would recommend that this would be the last time we extend this letter of credit pending performance with the developer."

Com. Burrus moved to approve, Com. Harper seconded,

Com. Evans, "Is there a date for the expiration of this?"

Com. Burrus, "There should be a date for a one year renewal. The Letter of Credit would have been issued the 24th of November, 2003 and it would be for one year."

Motion carried.

NEIGHBORS OPPOSING NIPSCO's ODORIZATION STATION (NONOS)

Mr. Carlson, "My name is Wendell Carlson. My address is 459 East 1200 North, Chesterton. Thank you for putting me on your agenda. I come to you today as the representative of a local community group: Neighbors Opposing NIPSCO Odorization Station, commonly known as NONOS. The citizens of Jackson and Pine Township are requesting your help in stopping NIPSCO from building their proposed odorization station in the Jackson Township residential neighborhood. NIPSCO has purchased a home on 2.3 acres at 384 E. Burdick Road where they have announced they intend to build this station. Therefore, we have prepared a resolution for you to consider in opposition to this odorization station. This is similar to the one passed by the Porter County Council. Bob Thompson, Director of the Plan Commission has also written a letter of concern to the Indiana Utility Regulatory Commission. It is my understanding that the Board of Zoning Appeal members are appointed by the Plan Commission, the County Council, and the County Commissioners. Previously there was some concern that if NIPSCO asked for an exception to the residential zoning, the BZA would be biased by a resolution from the Commissioners. However, there are three reasons why this should not be a concern. Number 1, the BZA reports to the counts, not the County Commissioners. Number 2, NIPSCO reports that they have no intention of going to the BZA for an exception in order to build. Number 3, if this issue didn't come before the BZA I am sure that the appointed BZA members would apply the law to their decisions and would not be influenced by this resolution or one by the County Council. Since there is an IURC hearing in Indianapolis on December 12th relating to this station, it is necessary that the County Commissioners take a stand on this issue before your next meeting. I have copies of those resolutions for you which I will give to you for your consideration. Darwin Wiseman is here, if you have a few minutes to listen him. He would be the next door neighbor of this proposed station. While he is talking I will pass this out."

Mr. Wiseman, "My name is Darwin Wiseman and I live at 392 Burdick. I own property adjacent to on the east side of the proposed site. If NIPSCO gets their way and they are able to put the odorization plant in, which they say they will, it will be about 100 to 200 feet along the east end of my home. My wife and I have some great concerns about this, number one, of course is the health issue, property values will drop and changing the face of the neighborhood. Our main concern is air quality because this is an odorization plant and I am sure they emit odors. I have been a resident of Porter County all my life, for 65 years, and I have always been proud of Porter County and the Porter County officials. At this time I am asking for your support; not only for Wendell but for myself. (the rest of Mr. Wiseman's statement was inaudible.)

Com. Harper, "I have driven by that and you are on the east side, and there is another home on the west side, isn't there?"

Mr. Wiseman, "There is a home on the west side and then there are about 2 or 3 other ones that are sitting back off of Burdick Road."

Com. Harper, "This is right between two family residences, they put it on a lot right in the middle of it. How far is it from the roadway?"

Mr. Wiseman, "I would say probably 200 or 300 feet."

Com. Harper, "I didn't know it was that far back, but it is on a lot between two houses."

Mr. Wiseman, "The lots near it are 500 feet deep. I am sure the building would be at least 200 feet from the lot line."

Com. Harper, "I don't see how it could not impact the value of your land to have that stuck between two houses."

Mr. Wiseman, "My main concern is when we bought the place everything was zoned residential and now this is here and they don't even have to go before the Board of Zoning Appeals. Somebody told that, I got a little upset that they say they don't have to abide by our ordinances. They say they don't even have to abide the Indiana Regulatory Commission."

Com. Harper, "I know Bob Thompson has already taken some action on this.

Com. Evans, "That's why I asked Bob to remain. I am totally sympathetic to your cause, I think you know that. But I am also sympathetic to the cause of impartiality. The Board of Zoning Appeals does answer to the Courts, but we appoint them. For us to come out and make a stance, I think that is going to influence people that we appoint is deemed as undue influence. Do you want us to do that? To put you in a position where the appeal comes back and says if you went to them and they unduly influenced the Board so the Board voted against it. That is where we are at."

Mr. Wiseman, "John, does not the same thing apply as far as the Porter County Council?"

Com. Evans, "I have no control over them and truthfully I think they are wrong in doing what they did."

Mr. Wiseman, "What I am saying is if even if your attorney has to defend it in a lawsuit, Porter County will still have to defend the ____ one way or the other."

Com. Burrus, "Bob, what is the most current status with respect to the BZA?"

Com. Evans, "Bob has written a letter to NIPSCO."

Mr. Thompson, "I did write a letter to William McCarty, the chairman of the ARC just simply requesting that NIPSCO should follow the procedures that are laid out in our zoning code and it requires a special exception."

Com. Harper, "Have you seen that letter that Lake County wrote? There is a letter floating around that apparently NIPSCO in the past has gone through the Lake County BZA, is that correct?"

Mr. Thompson, "I have the history of the files for NIPSCO coming in front of the BZA for a number of things and mainly with the code, it just talks about utility substations. Any time they want to put in a substation, they are required, if it is in residentially, or one of the first two commercial zones, it requires special exception."

Com. Harper, "Apparently they are not doing that, correct? They are taking the attitude they don't have to have any county approval whatsoever."

Mr. Thompson, "I was supposed to meet with NIPSCO's attorneys this week, unfortunately that was cancelled. It is probably going to be rescheduled next week."

Com. Harper, "Are we implying that if they take that attitude are we planning any action? If we feel that someone needs a special exception, . . ."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "I think we don't do anything, the BZA attorney should be taking some action to require NIPSCO to jump through the hoops that we believe they should be jumping through to get special exception. If somebody else ignores our procedures, we don't let them."

Mr. Thompson, "I have had conversations with Lily Schaeffer concerning this. Right now I don't know if I really want to answer the question here."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "I can say from a Commissioner's Attorney standpoint that I would advise this Board not to pass a resolution on an issue that it most likely could or should be heard by the BZA, which I think puts you in an unethical position."

Com. Harper, "Here's what I asked last time. Lets make sure someone gets us this answer. We are going to meet in two weeks, we need to know if the BZA isn't going to take any action on this then we are not in any conflict by signing a resolution, is that correct?"

Com. Evans, "We pass a resolution, they don't take any action, then NIPSCO turns around and comes back and files suit."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "I think that the property owners could retain counsel to challenge the action of NIPSCO for not going to the BZA then they would be right back anyway. If no one is going to challenge NIPSCO then there you have it. If anybody challenges NIPSCO on whether or not they need a special exception then I think we are sticking our necks out."

Com. Harper, "These folks, they are sitting up there with this thing being held between two houses and they are looking for help. Sometimes, you have to take risks. I think we should, and if they can't look to us, they are not going to call their congressman. If we find out in two weeks that there isn't going to be any legal action taken by the County then we should stick our necks out and do what we can for these folks. You have to risks once in a while. That is the way I feel about it, maybe nobody else does, but that is the way I feel about it."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "From a legal standpoint . . ."

Com. Harper, "You have to take a risk once in a while, you have to stand up and stand up for people who need it."

Com. Evans, "I don't mind taking a risk; we did that earlier with 149 but I think the risk here is that if we do this, they win, they turn around and lose, because we do it."

Com. Burrus, "Jeopardize their position. What is the time issue? Number 1, we have a meeting in two weeks, number 2, you have an IURC meeting coming up?"

Mr. Wiseman, "We have an IURC meeting on December 12th."

Com. Burrus, "We need to get some kind of clarification of what the BZA's position is."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "How about a resolution from this Board that NIPSCO be required to follow the requirements of our code before moving forward? That is a safe resolution."

Com. Evans moved to approve NIPSCO be required to follow the code requirements before moving forward, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Com. Burrus, "We have a discussion coming up on the draft of our CEDIT plan and we also have scheduled for 11:00 a 2nd reading on a Plan Commission issue. Would it be out of order to do that 2nd reading and get it finished and then go into our discussion?"

Atty. Rinkenberger, "You are well into the time frame when we could be hearing the zoning and any other matters that may occur, so I don't think it would be a problem to go out of order."

Com. Burrus, "I don't know if anyone is here for this zoning issue, but it will just take a moment. Bob, if you will come up."

Com. Harper, "I would like to request that Bob remain for our CEDIT discussion."


PLAN COMMISSION SESSION

Rezone AG to R1, Carmen Good, owner, 2nd reading

Mr. Thompson, "This is Plan Commission Resolution No. 03-16, petitioner Carmen Good requesting an amendment to the zoning maps from agricultural and open space to R1, single family residential per application of the Plan Commission that the October 8th meeting of the Plan Commission they recommended denial by a 6-0 vote. At the last meeting of the County Commissioners at first reading approved this with an RR-Rural Residential zoning."

Com. Evans moved to approve the rezone from AG to R1 on 2nd reading, Com. Harper seconded, motion carried.

Rezoning Froberg property not being heard at December 16, 2003 meeting

Mr. Thompson, "One question concerning rezonings; if this is not inappropriate in
a sense that the Plan Commission forwarded the Dean Froberg rezoning for commercial to the Commissioners for the December 16th meeting, am I correct that it will not be heard? And that you wanted it continued to the other rezone?"

Com. Evans, "We approved part of it but didn't approve the commercial and they wanted to send us . . "

Com. Harper, "They had a 4-3 on the commercial and a 4-4 on the multi family."

Mr. Thompson, "The majority was done on the commercial and it was not a majority for . . ."

Com. Harper, "I think the attorney suggested it all be done at one meeting which is fine with me as long we watch that 90 day deadline so we don't pass it; so nothing gets approved just on the fact that it doesn't get heard on time."

Mr. Thompson, "The only reason I am saying this is I have to notify all the land owners now."

Com. Harper moved to continue at least until the whole thing can be heard, no longer than the 90 day requirement, Com. Evans seconded, motion carried.

Mr. Thompson, "I would go for the second meeting in January since it was forwarded out of the Plan Commission in their meeting next week."

Com. Harper, "What if it is a 4-4?"

Mr. Thompson, "It would still have to go with the 2nd meeting."

Com. Burrus, "I agree with everyone's comments of far and that is that this multi-rezoning should come to us as a package. The other thing, the Plan Commission is in a position due to a vacancy to be in a place where it can't have a 4-4 tie. In view of that situation, and until it is been resolved and with our appointment process coming up, I would be prepared to accept a tied recommendation to keep this thing together."

Mr. Thompson, "By rules and procedures, a lack of majority means it is automatically continued. Their argument brought up with the Plan Commission if I can tell the members that the Commissioners will have no problem with them forwarding this down with no recommendation just to get a majority, it can still split. They were starting to do that and they got in an argument and it ended up 4-4 and they felt that they needed to do this; it was their job and the Commissioners were not doing their job."

Com. Burrus, "That recommendation would then be waive the rules and send them down with a . . . "

Mr. Thompson, "If they can not get a majority to approve a certain motion, I will tell them you had no problem with this."

Com. Evans, "Given the fact that you are one member short and that can occur, that is fine."

Com. Burrus, "Short of taking a vote on that, that is the unanimous agreement here."

Mr. Thompson, "Okay."

CEDIT PLAN DISCUSSION

Com. Burrus, "We have reviewed a draft in the past and the format we used was simply to show the proposals. Bob, I am not sure where you are on this, if you have any comments in mind or if you have a draft plan of your own."

Com. Harper, "I have comments in mind. I did have a draft plan but things have changed so much the last few days that I would like to make my comments and not submit a draft today."

Com. Burrus, "Do you want to follow our format and make your comments as appropriate?"

Com. Harper, "That would be fine. My comments are toward the whole plan rather than piece meal, so however you would like me to do it."

Com. Burrus, "Let me review what the draft has right now and I would preface that by saying there have been some significant changes since the last draft. As much as it is only the first of December, we are certainly amenable to additional changes or considerations. One major event is we are proposing a four-year plan versus a two year plan. I think the details will follow and then following that presentation we will have discussions. John, do you want to begin?"

Com. Evans, "I would just like to make a comment before we begin. What we are talking about is a CEDIT plan and this goes back to the beginning of the year when we were talking and Commissioner Burrus and I supported a COIT tax, we didn't get the COIT tax. I hate to say I told you so, but we are in the midst of a terrible property tax reassessment right now. The people out there are not real happy with that and had the COIT tax passed, there would have been property tax relief associated with that; that was the only type of tax Commissioner Burrus and I support. We don't have that and I don't think we are trying to fool anybody here, the money being sent aside and being spent out of this thing is money that has to be there to keep government running and it maybe has a different label on it than what people would like to see, but it should keep government running for the most part. With that said, Project 1 was the estimated cost of $1.2 million set aside for the improvement of county highway right of ways that would carry through all four years of the project. We gave the County Council money equal to $1.2 million from our funds in CCD to make the roadways operate the same way they have been in the past, so this is really a re-payment of those funds, much like the re-payment to the sheriff for the $600,00.00 that he is contributing."

Com. Burrus, "I would add to that there were two categories of highway funds that were diverted to the general fund; one was the CCD and the other was cable funds and the total was very close to the $1.2 million. As we go through this, Project 2, the first year of the plan has to do with capital improvements of the three commissioner districts, $100,000.00. Various proposals in the north district had to do with land acquisition for a proposed expansion of a highway garage, south district had to do with a legal drain issue in the Pleasant Township area, and in the Center District, designated generally as road and drainage improvements."

Com. Evans, "The third project was $175,000.00 for building maintenance for Porter County buildings. As evidenced earlier, there are a great many things going wrong with county buildings and there are no funds and no plan set aside to make sure they are taken care of and this would insure that. This is also a project that would go all four years."

Com. Burrus, "The fourth item in the first year was a commitment of $300,000.00 proposed to the Parks system to be designated through their own planning system."

Com. Evans, "We have received a proposal from them for that. The fifth project is the funding for Federal Rule 13 Mandate Federal Storm Water and Drainage Management Education Fund of $20,000.00."

Com. Burrus, "Project 6 would be a contribution into a non-reverting fund for county participation into some yet undefined regional transportation effort. It is anticipated the funding might go towards preliminary planning and engineering. We don't know a good figure for that but we are suggesting $200,000.00 per year."

Com. Evans, "The seventh project is $200,000.00 for the preparation of planning and zoning ordinances for Porter County. We spent an awful lot of money on a master plan that needs to be supplemented by these ordinances."

Com. Burrus, "Project 8 we discussed earlier this morning and has to do with the local share of the engineering and right of way acquisition cost for the 149 extension and the first year contribution is proposed at $200,000.00."

Com. Evans, "The ninth project is the reimbursement to the sheriff of $600,000.00 and designated for the department training center."

Com. Burrus, "That concludes the first year which is 2004; the next year is 2005 and the first project would be the annual contribution John mentioned awhile ago of $1.4 million towards improvement of county right of ways."

Com. Evans, "The second project is carried over from the first for all three districts; Center, South and North for a total of $300,000.00."

Com. Burrus, "Project 3 is an annual contribution of $175,000.00 for the maintenance of county buildings and assets. I add assets on there to include such things as this emergency radio communication network we talked about earlier today."

Com. Evans, "The fourth project is capital building projects for the Porter County Parks system. This year we are going to raise that to $400,000.00."

Com. Burrus, "Project five is a continuation of the Federally Mandated Rule 13 on Storm Water Drainage. The second year we are estimating at $20,000.00."

Com. Evans, "The sixth project is the Regional Transportation Funding of $200,000.00; the same as it was the previous year."

Com. Burrus, "Project 7 for 2005 is an initial contribution of $300,000.00 towards the construction of the North County Highway Garage expansion."

Com. Evans, "The eighth project is $100,000.00 contribution towards the local share of County Road 300 West or State Road 149."

Com. Burrus, "Finally, Project 9 is $300,000.00 toward the continuation of the GIS which is the Geographic Information System program that was initiated several years ago and we would like to see that get back on track."

Com. Evans, "2006 would be $1.4 million improvement for county highways and right of ways."

Com. Burrus, "Project 2 is a continuation for $300,000.00 per year with $100,000.00 per district for capital improvements."

Com. Evans, "Project 3 is for building maintenance fund carried over from previous years at $175,000.00."

Com. Burrus, "Project 4 is a continuation of $400,000.00 to the Porter County Parks system."

Com. Evans, "Project 5 is Rule 13 funding again as mandated for $20,000.00."

Com. Burrus, "At some point that will have to go up but we have no idea at this point in time when that would be. Project 6 is regional transportation contribution toward the cumulative fund of $200,000.00."

Com. Evans, "Project 7 is the second contribution of $300,000.00 for the North County Highway Garage. There are currently trucks that sit outside and the garage is in a confined area and there needs to be space added."

Com. Burrus, "Project 8 would go unfunded for 2006 and this is our category of local contribution to the State Road 149 extension. We do not know if we would have any obligations during that year."

Com. Evans, "Project 9 is the $300,000.00 toward the GIS."

Com. Burrus, "For 2007, the first would be a repetition of the $1.4 million to the county right of ways."

Com. Evans, "The second would be a repetition of the $300,000.00 for the Center, North and South Districts."

Com. Burrus, "Project 3 would be a repetition of $175,000.00 for maintenance of county buildings."

Com. Evans, "The fourth project is the capital building projects for the Porter County Parks at $400,000.00."

Com. Burrus, "The fifth would be the continuation of Rule 13 Storm Water Management Drainage System of $20,000.00."

Com. Evans, "The sixth is $200,000.00 for regional transportation money in Porter County."

Com. Burrus, "Project 7 is again an unfunded amount for the 149 extension at that point in time we don't believe there would be an obligation yet."

Com. Evans, "Project 8 would be an additional $300,000.00 for the GIS."

Com. Burrus, "I think that concludes the breakdown we have proposed. The general intent of this plan as proposed is consistent with what John said earlier and also the economic connection has to do primarily with infrastructural issues and how those can enhance our economic development. With that on the table, I will turn this over to you, Bob."

Com. Harper, "I just wish Commissioner Evans hadn't mentioned the taxes because now I have to make my comment on them and respectfully disagree. Let me say I respectfully disagree knowing that Commissioner Burrus and Commissioner Evans had wrestled this very difficult thing the last two or three years and putting this plan together I am sure took a lot of time. But I have to say on the tax, I don't believe that passage of the COIT would have given any property tax relief at all whatsoever. The Porter County taxpayers pay a lot more property taxes than just the amount they pay to Porter County Government they pay for school districts. Most school districts have as much taxes as we have out of our general fund and our other fund together. So when you figure property taxes in the county, you are figuring up around $200 million worth of taxes."

Com. Burrus, "I want to clear this up, we are talking about the portion of county real estate taxes that go into county government which is probably less than 15%."

Com. Harper, "Right and what I am saying is county government, I have read minute after minute of Commissioners' meetings where this tax has been talked about and I wouldn't have brought it up today, but obviously you know my position is different and I would like to state my position. Commissioner Evans stated that he thought there would be property tax relief and I am simply pointing out that if we passed that tax, and passed it for a fourth which was what was talked about, it would be about money, a billion dollars, for different tax units. People are paying well over $200 million in property taxes in Porter County. So if you take $8 million against that, it is a small fraction to start with and secondly, everyone wanted that money from the spending, so I didn't think there would be any property tax relief at all and I think most of those people on County Council that voted against it understood that. However, we don't have that plan, we have the CEDIT plan. In the short time I have been here, I have tried to look this plan over and realize that you fellows have put a lot of thought into this plan because it is not easy to put this together. I have some suggestions and disagreements and it doesn't mean I am right but I at least want to put them out for thought. I think we should limit ourselves to a two year plan and perhaps I can ask the attorney more about this, but my thought is this: number one, we have been saying in these meetings that our financial crisis is not over and I don't think we are really sure it is over. Until we are sure, this plan calls for many new projects and I think we should leave ourselves a little more flexibility which would be better with a two year plan. I am concerned because I have been told that our health insurance costs this year will reach about $4.5 million and I don't know if I am right about that or not, and that we can expect that could up 15% next year. I don't know if we budgeted that much for next year or not, I know you are well more on top of that than I am. Is that right or not?"

Com. Burrus, "The claims history to date is creeping up higher than what we had budgeted, yes, how it will finally total out is really not that predictable yet but we are not in a terrible crisis. Having said that, we have been pointing out and the Council has been listening for the last three years that I am aware of, that health insurance cost, not talking about the frequency of business, I am talking about the cost of services rendered, typically it could go up between 10 and 15% per year. So that kind of inflationary increase is what we have to deal with. Now on the other hand, we have been looking at numerous ways of trying to keep a handle on this so that we are at the low end of the range. With that in mind, we do have a budget figure for next year that I cannot remember but I do know that the Council has earmarked some funds to be dedicated to the health insurance on top of what is budgeted."

Com. Harper, "I think they are talking about part of the CEDIT money."

Com. Burrus, "They did not express that to us."

Com. Harper, "Or is it the cable fund?"

Com. Burrus, "I would be curios to know, even under the wildest stretch of imagination, how you can equate CEDIT money with health insurance."

Com Harper, "Well, how much do we have budgeted this year for health insurance?"

Com. Burrus, "Well, that is in the file and I can get it for you."

Com. Harper, "Well, when we run over, where do we get the money, we obviously get it somewhere."

Com. Burrus, "We haven't gotten more money for the last three years but prior to that the habit was to go back to the Council and request an additional appropriation."

Com. Harper, "The other thing that I would like to see some flexibility is in some of the poor repair of the buildings we already have. I don't know how much it is going to cost to repair but I know this: that North County Complex employees have duct tape on the floor to keep people from tripping over the carpet and not in one place, all over the place. They have trouble with the doors working, they still say they are having trouble with the heating. I don't even think the place has been painted since they got in there. So I think we should leave ourselves some flexibility in taking care of the buildings we have."

Com. Burrus, "You couldn't have said it better. That is the kind of scheduled maintenance we have been referring to."

Com. Harper, "I am not sure how much that is going to cost because they talk about trouble with windows, doors, security issues and so forth. I am against any building projects whatsoever until we get out of this financial crisis. I think we have asked our employees to give up, and I have read the minutes and Commissioner Burrus you have commended the employees and rightly so, but we have asked them to give up and do things and I think until we get this budget straightened out, it is hard for me to visualize going from last summer when the employees in the Courthouse had to pull the weeds, they actually had to go down and pull the weeds, and pool money to buy the shrubs because we didn't have enough money to take care of the boxes around the Courthouse to building four new buildings which is at least what we are talking about, is just inconceivable to me until we get on better financial ground. I don't consider any of the buildings a crisis. I don't consider the Hazmat, the County garage, the Park building, or the shooting range a crisis right at this point. I would like to see us get, whatever plan we get together, to put those on the back burner. I have talked to the park manager, he tells me that they have a five year plan. I wasn't given a copy of it. I have asked him a couple times. He further tells me that he estimates the upkeep on that barn to be $250,000.00 a year with the employees they need. I called him back to confirm that figure, obviously they are planning activities and they hope there is some money raising, but even he recognizes they don't have the money to do that now. I am pulling for this money in the Park budget but I think we should give it to him for raw land right now for the next couple years. There is land along the Kankakee River, and I think it will work right in with economic development and perhaps there can be some fishing and so forth down there. I would like to see that money go for the Park Department or even more for raw land. I called back twice to check on the figure and I think we realize that the money isn't there right now to do that. I am concerned about the costs of running the jail right now, I know the utilities and insurance are going to run over $300,000.00 a year. I am just looking at this plan here that provides for service and upkeep which I had no idea it would cost that much to take care of the equipment. I'm not sure we have a good figure on what that is going to cost or where the money is going to come from that which obviously we are going to have to meet that responsibility. It has to be met."

Com. Burrus, "The first item for every year is a $1.4 million contribution to highways that frees up a full amount of money that goes back into the general fund for the kinds of things of normal budgetary items."

Com. Evans, "$1.2 million the first year."

Com. Harper, "Another reason that I think we should take it a little bit easy is again, I agree with you fellas on the regional transportation, but I think this is an iffy, iffy project. I don't know if the money is going to be used to set aside the first year. It seems to be that everybody is talking about the whole scheme is dependent upon Lake County passing the tax and I believe the money should be there this year but I think we should be ready to make a move if it looks like this thing isn't going to go through. I don't know how tied in we are with this plan but that is one of things I think about."

Com. Burrus, "We aren't tied in with anything other than the commitment that we are interested in some form of commuter rail systems. I think an RTA being discussed has an organizational concept that may or may not come to fruition. The thing that comes to my mind is that we do have a commuter rail organization in the form of NICTD, that would make a very sensible vehicle to try to implement another expansion of the commuter rail assets and if that happens to be the vehicle then I think we could be on board ready to go."

Com. Harper, "I agree. I just think it is just not firm, we don't know what is going to happen next year and that is why I strongly suggest a two-year plan rather than a four- year plan. I know the attorney is going to say well, we can get out of a four year plan, but I am envisioning this; we have a four year plan and some department we tell them we are going to give them $400,000.00 four years from now and all of a sudden, as so many times that can become a commitment and then they are going to be here saying we have done studies; we thought we were going to get this money; this is our money. That is just one of the concerns I have about that. But I agree with the regional transportation funding issue. I would like to see more money in this proposal for zoning and that is why I wanted to ask Bob this. The money we put in for getting any of our zoning ordinances into re-written and to go along with our Master Plan, I don't know if this is bare amount or what, but I would like to see us and for economic development and the future of our county, one of the main things we can do long term is get some really good zoning regulations in effect. We could take from some communities that have really been concerned about how they develop and I am thinking about things like tree requirements, setback requirements in industrial areas with buffer zones, sign requirements, those types of things. A real hard look at the kind of planned unit developments we have so they are not used again and again to come in and try to cram more homes on less acres rather than put the green space. Do things like that so hopefully we can zone an upscale type community for people here. What worries me is I go down that old road to Hobart, one of my sore points is all the semi stories down there, and the gas station that went right in across from that subdivision and things like that happen, and if we are going to have semi storage, I think we should have buffer zones. I don't want to see us create a place 30 years from now the people are wanting to go down to Starke County to buy a place to live without traffic problems. It is going to require a major . . ., the little bit I have learned sitting here, the tough decisions you have to make and when the whole picture isn't painted, its double talk. There are counties in the state that have committed themselves to open space and green space and maintaining the rural character in limiting the number of advertising signs. I would like to see us do a major study with this money and try to put that in effect. Bob, if you put a minimum amount to rewrite these ordinances in there but it would seem to do this it would require more than one year commitment. I don't know if you have thought about anything over those lines. The other possibility of using some of this money is for a study of impact fees. Now impact fees for future development on what the cost of parks and different things are going to be so that we can really have a serious study on impact fees for future building in this county."

Com. Burrus, "Mike, hasn't that just been done?"

Mike Aylesworth, "Yes, it has. The County Builder's Association in conjunction with Porter County and the cities Valparaiso, Portage and Chesterton, all threw money in for engineering review and a study of impact fees. Went through the process all summer long and had its final meeting summation and presentation there this Fall. The communities have all been briefed on the value of impact fees, the Builder's Association supports the concept of legal impact fees, not exactions, so the money that is raised from impact fees has been properly been engineered and studied and will be spent."

Com Harper, "That study hasn't been done yet, has it? What are the impact fees for Parks in Portage?"

Mr. Aylesworth, "It is all done, it is in writing."

Com. Harper, "So how much money for a lot and so forth?"

Mr. Aylesworth, "I don't have that. . .

Com. Harper, "But that is done?"

Mr. Aylesworth, "Yes, but the amount that is needed for future in Portage,
Valparaiso, Chesterton and Porter County is all in writing. I can get you copies of that."

Com Harper, "Who in Porter County participated in that? Porter County Government?"

Mr. Aylesworth, "The Commissioners."

Com. Evans, "Larry Sheets was our representative."
Mr. Aylesworth, "Larry Sheets and I think Bob went to the meetings on behalf of the County Commissioners."

Com. Harper, "I would like to see that."

Mr. Aylesworth, "Yes, you are more than welcome. I don't know if the County contributed some of that additional study, how much was it?"

Com. Evans, "$20,000.00, just under $5,000.00."

Atty. Rinkenberger, "3,500.00 or something to get the study going."

Com. Evans, "Just under $5,000.00."

Mr. Aylesworth, "Each one of the four taxing units did contribute along with the County Builder's Association."

Com. Harper, "Who did the study?"

Mr. Aylesworth, "A&F Engineering out of Indianapolis who has impact fees and has worked with impact fees, are the state's leading authority on impact fees out of Hamilton County, Carmel and Fisher that have impact fees; and Nobelsville and we would like to see that concept to continue to come forward in Porter County."

Com. Harper, "Is there any more study to be done or is done?"

Mr. Aylesworth, "The initial study that the County paid for is wrapped up. When we had the final meeting in October and Mayor Olson of Portage was at that meeting."

Com. Harper, "Are you satisfied that it has been done, Bob, and that it has been done properly?"

Mr. Thompson, "Yes. I am hesitant on one part; Ed Melendez has also joined me with help for the Parks and I think at the very last meeting, if I remember correctly, the communities and the County did look at the idea of possibly going forward with the Park impact fees."

Mr. Aylesworth, "Correct. And I had a call from Mr. Herbach who has been anxiously waiting for a call because they said they were going to call to move ahead, but no one has called him and he asked me then to take the bull by the horns and contact the communities and get the process started. Now we've got a change in administration in Valparaiso so I sort of have to wait and see how that thing settles out along with the County, Chesterton and Portage, so that we can get the units together for Park impact fees. Which all the units said they wanted to move forward with this, if I understand that correctly. Is that correct, Gwenn?"

Atty. Rinkenberger, "I think we decided it was feasible at all in Porter County Parks."

Mr. Aylesworth, "So I have the completed studies, Bob, and will be glad to give them to you."

Com. Harper, "Yes, I would like to see them."

Com. Evans, "Mike, you listed two municipalities, there are not counties currently participating in impact fees in the state, is that right?"

Mr. Aylesworth, "That is correct. There is some consideration in Hamilton County but they have not done that yet so it will be a first in the county unit of government to have impact fees."

Mr. Thompson, "To give you an idea on some of those numbers, Ed Melendez from Parks went recently at the Park Board meeting to start with that discussion for the county to look at that if everybody went into it, kind of like the economy scale a situation that would probably be $30,000.00 to $40,000.00 and fail to produce the ordinance."

Mr. Aylesworth, "It was my suggestion at the meetings that each of the taxing units that this is the perfect opportunity for the addition of the CEDIT because the money necessary that the communities are going to need to implement the engineering study and come out ahead will be repaid by the impact fees when collected. Dave Hollenbeck did a rough estimate at the October meeting and said the Park impact fee from the needs of the study are about $100.00 per lot and the lots are sold."

Com. Burrus, "Can I suggest we continue this in a private session so we can get this wrapped up?"

Mr. Aylesworth, "I will visit with Bob later."

Com. Burrus, "The topic and the issue is certainly valid and on the table but it has been discussed sufficiently today."

Com. Harper, "The last thing I want to mention is the monies that were gotten for this contract, this $1.3 million from the federal government for the prisoners being kept in the jail, $200,000.00 of that money has been used for salaries at the jail. Approximately $30,000.00 has been used for exercise equipment in addition to monies out of the bond that was used for that; $300,000.00 has been used for cars. As you know a substantial amount was used for a computer system, I think $600,000.00 so I don't think we have any hard and core requirements of where that money goes and I suggested that money just remain intact until the jail project is completed; it is not done yet, there is ongoing litigation and then at that time we see where we are at with that money. Regardless, any building we build is going to cost money for maintenance, insurance, and so forth. If we are in a crisis, I can't see taking on additional expenses until we take care of the people we have. We have offices that have been closed in Portage, we are talking about needing an employee here to just enforce the zoning ordinances and so forth until we get on a good fiscal basis and we know we are there, I am against any further building projects. I also want to end with this. I know you fellas have put a lot of hard time in this because there is a lot of complicated issues that I am just starting to understand but that is just my standing."

Com. Burrus, "I see about six specific issues that are in discussion. John, do you have any thoughts on this?"

Com. Evans, "The first one and I don't think we will ever agree on this one but Bob, you made the comment that the COIT tax would have been for new spending and I totally disagree with that. The County was barely able to pay its bills and that was the sole intention of the COIT as far as I am concerned the only COIT tax I supported and I think I can speak for Commissioner Burrus, the only tax we supported would have had property tax relief tied to it or we wouldn't have been out there hanging our names on it."

Com. Harper, "There is no property tax relief attached to COIT. COIT is new money."

Com. Evans, "It could have had as much as 8% I believe, whatever the maximum was, we were going for it and that was the only reason and the only way that we were supporting it. When we came up millions of dollars short to pay the bills, there was not a lot of alternatives around and you said most voted against it, most didn't even vote. Most municipalities didn't even have the courage to put it on their plate and look at it."

Com. Harper, "Or maybe they had the courage to say they weren't going to spend the taxpayers money."

Com. Evans, "They're spending the CEDIT aren't they? They are spending it left and right."

Com. Harper, "Well, that has got to say something to the people out there paying these tax bills that we've got this tax that all these communities are throwing around ideas on where they are going to spend it."

Com. Evans, "Chesterton and Kouts were the only two communities that had the gumption to even look at and examine it. The rest of them just sat back and said we win no matter what happens, we win. And they put the blame on the Council and let the Council be the bad guy. That is what happened. As far as the overall tax picture, I agree with everybody and their brother that says we need to get rid of township assessors. That property tax thing, don't even talk to me about property taxes. I am going to have to get the Brink's truck to help me come down to the Treasurer's office; its terrible. That system needs to be changed and I would encourage everyone that has a pen to write their legislature and tell them they need to look at the property taxes across the state. North County in Portage, I have had the maintenance supervisor, Charlotte, measure for carpet, figure for painting, some of those offices have been done. The addition of the court out there for Judge Jent was done at one particular time, part of the other building was done at another time. Some of the those offices haven't been done since they were built and they need to be done. It's not like we are neglecting them, its again, there was no funds available to take care of that; something we hope we addressed with the funds here."

Com. Burrus, "I would like to comment here, too, and that is the commitment or the contribution we are proposing here for Highway, I would like to point out that the entire drive and parking area of the North County Complex was paved recently, I think last year, and it came out of John's north county highway budget. Those kinds of things have been squeaked through the best way we can and we can look forward to the opportunity to do a better job."

Com. Evans, "Absolutely. The Parks, if you want to change their money around, I think Dave and I discussed the possibility of letting them decide where they wanted to put it. I have no objections to working with the Park Department on how they best want to spend their money. The North County garage, when you cant get trucks started and the snow is waist high to a tall Indian, it is kind of hard to get out there and work on them in that kind of weather, it is even harder. Those people need to be able to put their equipment inside; the cost of that equipment is astronomical and to let it sit out there and waste is not right; it needs to be inside where it can be maintained and in a condition ready to go. The Hazmat Building is another situation similar to the Sheriff's garage. The Greg Phillips Fund was established for the purpose of that building and I think it was Attorney Hollenbeck who said he would as sooner sit in front of an oncoming freight train than to see that project derailed. I don't know how people feel about Hazmat, but given our situation in the world today, we may all depend on them for our very existence at the drop of a hat."

Com. Harper, "Could I interject something here? I want to clear this up because I have read about this. The Greg Phillips Fund apparently was a fund that was put together and there was $59,000.00 contributed to it. The rest of the money in that fund came from, is taxpayers' money. Number one, Beta Steel had to pay fines because they didn't have lock boxes when they had their explosion, and I think the attorney has the figure, it was $90,000.00 or $100,000.00, and during our financial crisis it has sat in that fund for that building and there is another amount of that fund that came from the sale of two county properties for $75,000.00 that are in that fund, so whatever the fund is called, the majority of the fund is taxpayers' money that was, in my opinion, diverted during our financial crisis and put in that fund and we have places to store that equipment right now and I see the crisis as the employees and getting enough employees and getting the offices back open in Portage and making sure we are on firm financial basis. That is what I see as the crisis and I would like to clear that up about where that money came from for that fund. It appears to me that the money could have been used during our crisis that we just got done going through rather than sitting there in that fund."

Com. Evans, "Believe me, if it could have been attached, the County Council would have got it. Everything in that fund is fenced for the purpose of that building."

Com. Harper, "It was because of Commissioners' ordinance, not because there was any state law that said that money had to go toward that building."

Com. Evans, "Well, the idea of building the Hazmat Building goes back a number of years and I think the people that have been associated with that, especially the people in the Hazmat team would probably leave the organization if they knew that was never going to happen. It has always been something they have been trying to achieve and I don't know if all that equipment is being stored inside at this time or not."

Com. Harper, "It is at the fairgrounds and further, if we had all of the necessary equipment could be stored in that police garage out there. But that is just my thought, go ahead, I interrupted you."

Com. Burrus, "We have a draft and we've had some comments and some suggestions and objections and so in the next two weeks we need to resolve these t